Standing For Freedom- Define Marriage

Hello, this is Matt Slick from the Matt Slick Live Podcast, where I defend the Christian faith and lay out our foundations of the truth of God's Word. Your chosen Truth Network Podcast is starting in just a few seconds.

Enjoy it, share it, but most of all, thank you for listening and for choosing the Truth Podcast Network. I want to point out that your denomination is basically calling you a hater, calling you uncompassionate, unloving, and forcing you to leave if, indeed, you will not bow down and follow their view, which is against Scripture. Their view that anyone that wants to get married can get married.

Marriage is not between a man and a woman, strictly. And this is what's happening with the Moravians' tragedy, this is what is happening with some of the Presbyterian denominations. The whole goal here, by the way, in the Methodists, particularly, the United Methodists, hundreds and hundreds of churches are leaving the Methodist Church. They are what's called disenfranchising because the Methodist Church of America has left the Bible. They deny what God's Word says. Well, Stu, you can't be that black and white.

You can't be so hard and fast with it. Well, am I being? Did not God say, for this reason I give them, I have made them male and female, for this reason a man should leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife? This was in Genesis. This was before all the Leviticus stuff that everyone likes to try to throw these little quips and contradictions, which there are none.

But this is before Jesus even came along, and Jesus confirmed the very same thing. So, is the Bible right, or is the Bible wrong, and is marriage after 6,000 years going to cave into what the culture says, or because you have a family member that's struggled with this, therefore we change what God says about marriage? What do you do? How do you sort it out?

And here's my question, listeners. What do you say to your pastor when he's got to go to the denominational meeting and he's got to decide, I'm going to withdraw or I'm going to hang in there with these people and deny the very faith and the very blood that bought me and deny the Scripture? This is real personal with me, because I have personal friends, people I've grown up with, multiple people I've grown up with, who are either pastoring or deeply involved, ensconced in the United Methodist Movement, who are at this point, this critical impasse.

What do they do? How do I advise them? And how do you speak out, biblically but graciously? And I'm going to bring in a heavyweight, not a welterweight, not a lightweight, but a heavyweight by the name of Ryan Heflenbein, who is with the Standing for Freedom Center on the campus of Liberty University. And Ryan, in these dark days, my friend, in these last days, potentially, this should be no surprise to believers that entire denominations founded on the spread of the gospel are now leaving that very gospel to cater to the gender chaos. How do we handle it, man? Can you believe we're even talking about it?

I can, in one sense, do. Obviously, we should not get used to this. We should not be comfortable. This is a time of great mourning when we think about the various tombstones of once-great denominations in our country that have all capitulated, one by one, to cultural suicide. That they have bought into this narrative to go along, to get along, to somehow be winsome, to somehow gain some kind of ground by softly, silently capitulating. We must be faithful. We must stand true on the word of God.

We have to recognize that God is also watching, and we have him to whom our lives are held account for our faithfulness. And so, I think about some of these more recent polls. I'm going to say I'm encouraged to see that because of the militancy and the confrontational nature of the LGBT movement, that polling is something like 7% down from last year in support of gay marriage. American people are fed up with the confrontational nature of the LGBT movement in public schools, in public libraries. They're sick of it. They don't want to be a part of this. It's coming for their kids. And so, they're standing their ground. And I think what we need to see in this marriage and family movement is something similar to what's happened in the pro-life movement. It has taken 50 years to overturn Roe v. Wade. Why?

Because people have not stopped talking about abortion. And so, if we have that same spirit, and it's the Holy Spirit, and I think it's the presence of God's holiness in our lives, and we're in pursuit of truth, in constant pursuit of truth, and we don't shut up about it, I think we win long term. I really do. Let me ask you this question, because I've got some dear friends involved. I've got a guy that is saying to me, hey, Stu, how do I approach my pastor?

What do I say to him? Because I give money to this Methodist church, and I'm not sure where he stands. And how should I go somewhere else?

And so, a couple questions, Ryan. I mean, if you say you're leaving the church, but the church has left the scripture, then maybe you're not leaving the church. At what point does the church cease to be a church? If it doesn't recognize God's Word, the authority of God's Word, then it's not. How could you even call that a church, sir?

Yeah, yeah, no, Stu, you're onto it. Some places, you know, there's an invisible name on the wall, or in the doorpost of that church, an invisible name is Ichabod. You know, the Lord has departed. The Spirit of the Lord is not there. It is not a scriptural church. It is not a confessional church that stands on the authority of God's Word, inerrant, infallible truth, that it is not committed to scriptural baptism, that they've allowed for a mixed membership.

So it's not New Testament believers who have repented of their sins, confessed Christ as Lord, walking in a new way of life, in obedience to Christ's commands. You know, when churches begin to compromise on that, I think they're no longer churches. And so there are many people, Stu, who have said, hey, look, you know, I didn't leave my church, my church left me. I didn't leave my denomination, my denomination left me. And so we, ultimately, our allegiance is to Christ. The church is the bride of Christ, and if the church ceases to glorify and honor Christ in what it does, it is no longer the church. So you have an obligation to be obedient to Christ first in everything you do.

Well, and the whole thing, go somewhere you're going to get fed, go somewhere you're going to grow. Leave a denomination that's left God and His Word. That's not even a denomination, that's not even a church. Let's get clear here. How have we fallen into these wrong definitions? Let's start defining things the way God does.

Ryan, let me go to the extreme here and ask you this question. Is it not inordinate, or is it not too far-fetched to say in the current United Methodist Church construct and direction that if you, supposing you want to marry your mom, I mean, supposing you both are kind of experimenting, you're out there, and you're very moderate, and you're very progressive, and you really love each other, and you want to go to the altar with your mom. Why not? If a United Methodist minister does not perform those nuptials in that building, then isn't that uncompassionate and sinful of him not to marry a man and his mom? Yes or no? Yeah, no, you're exactly right. You're exactly right, because you've already gone off the guardrail, and some people are saying, no, no, no, no, now I'm going to insert a principle here.

How? How are you going to do it? Okay, so what if a man or a female wants to marry her son? I mean, what if she's minor attracted? Is it judgmental and uncompassionate to not marry them? Let's go further. What about, you say you want to be married to your best friend, right?

Yes. So if a woman wants to marry her snickerdoodle, or whatever you call it, her cute, let's just say, gold retriever, everyone's laughing, oh, I'm going to wreck my car, how can you say that, Stu? The dog's her best friend, she wants to marry her best friend. Why would you deny those nuptials? Give me a principle that the United Methodist would use to say you cannot marry your twin brother, you cannot marry your mom, you cannot marry your dog.

Ryan, be them and tell me what's wrong with that. You know, it's very difficult to play devil's advocate, but I think foolishly, they would believe that somehow, that right now, gay marriage is acceptable, that's unacceptable, but it's only a matter of... You've attended this church, Sunday school, you've grown up in it, it's been a sweet experience for you if you've gone on missions trips, and then you find out that your pastor supports unbiblical, same-sex marriage, which isn't marriage. And you find out that there's full-blown support for all the trans stuff going on. To love a group of people doesn't mean you have to accept or condone a lifestyle, folks, let's please grow up past that, okay?

So, then there's no hate speech going on, even though people try to characterize people to stand up for what's right as hate, it's not. But the question is, what do you do when your church ceases to be a church, and they're doing these votes saying, if you hold to what the Bible teaches as a marriage... You can use the word traditional if you want, but the fact is, it's biblical. Marriage is between a man and a woman.

If you hold to that, then you're out. You find another denomination, you find another institution, and we're moving on to embrace marriage. And so I asked the question, am I going too far to say, you want to marry your mom? Why not? You want to marry your brother? Why not? Your sister? Why not? Your kid? Why not?

You tell me why not. And at what point does it stop, and at what point does the standard of God's word come back, and what do you do in that situation? How do you talk to your pastor over coffee? Ryan Helfelbein is helping us with this whole hot topic. He's with the Standard for Freedom Center on the campus of Liberty University, and they're helping a lot of pastors and churches frame a biblical worldview, a biblical axiomatic truth around these tough cultural issues. Should we be speaking to these issues?

You better believe it. We should be speaking often to them. Our language should be drenched in grace, recognizing that we all need salvation.

We don't need Christ. But Ryan Helfelbein, these are tough topics, and we've got a caller on the line who wants to talk to you about it. I brought this topic up today, and someone off the top of the heads had mentioned three churches in their area that have left the United Methodist Church over this very thing.

They have disenfranchised. But it's such an important topic, and Ryan, thank you, my friend, for being with us. Let's get Travis in here.

Travis? I'm from Statesville, North Carolina, and our church, I don't guess I'll mention any names, but we've been going through that, and we've had the option to disaffiliate. We've noticed that through COVID and everything, the United Methodist Church has swept it under the rug, or just kind of, oh, don't look over here, don't worry about it. And so we were given the chance to either disaffiliate or go along with it.

I don't guess it would be the bishop, but our district superintendent or whatnot actually came out for the church and kind of gave us a pitch for it on what happened. And basically there was going to be a spinoff denomination of the Global United Methodist, or not the Global United, but Global Methodist Church. Yeah, and they're strong.

The African branch is strong, and I believe there's been a division between the global and the stateside, or the American denomination. Right. And so you all were throwing with them. Ryan, what do you say to Travis?

You can feel the pain in his voice, Ryan. Yes, absolutely. I do apologize.

I did not catch this question, as the relay didn't come over on my end, but I will echo just the part I heard too. Yes. And that is absolutely true, that in Africa you have a conservative contingency of bishops there that are holding the line on biblical marriage and not same-sex mirage. But I will say this, the question for most Americans is, how are you in your church, if your pastor has gone off the rails, your denomination has, how can you as a layperson do anything to overturn it? The way in which governance works in the United Methodist denomination is hierarchical.

So at the end of the day, you're pushing back against the wind. It is not something that you can change. You can either start a new denomination or join a different church or a different denomination.

But there's very little you can do to overturn the rule of the church here in the US. Okay, wow. Well, Travis, thanks for standing strong, my friend, and for passing that courage on to other listeners. God bless you.

Yes, sir. Thank you for praying for, supporting your pastor, and doing the right thing. Any denomination that stands for killing our young in abortion, supporting nefarious, really bad places like Planned Parenthood, any denomination that stands for something that they call marriage that's not marriage, that's not, you know, between a man and a woman, you can't call them a church, you can't call them biblical. I mean, you don't try to evangelize them and love them, but I've got to applaud you for your courage, Travis.

God bless you, my friend. And it's getting worse to the point where, Ryan, this is the crazy thing. America, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, you can believe this.

You can hold to this to be true. Well, especially there's an aggression in the trans community that says if you don't full-blown get in our parade and, you know, support us and get behind us and mainstream this everywhere and allow kids, you know, allow our drag queen, drag shows to go in front of children, then you're guilty of a hate crime. Like, legislatively, the president, the government's trying to force that line, you know. Talk about that, how this, people listening are like, hey, well, you know, not my problem, I go to my good fundamentalist, you know, Methodist church, you know, we're not. But talk about how they're going to be brought in because they are going to full-blown endorse this in some way or another in a workplace scenario, in a school situation, or in public, or they're going to go to jail for a hate crime, Ryan, like has happened in Canada.

Go ahead. Yeah, so, I mean, literally, you don't have to look any further than what took place, school shooting in Nashville at the Covenant School there in Nashville, where a trans shooter, well-known, went in there and obviously, you know, took the lives, claimed the lives of several students in that school. And what happened in the media, what happened from the White House could not communicate any clearer where the regime supports this transgender movement and hates Christianity. At the end of the day, the villain was the victim, and the victims were the villains.

That's how the media reported on that event. So if you think you're living in a time where you're going to have a fair hearing as a Christian, where you're going to be seen as somebody who is fair-minded, where you're going to be seen as somebody who should have equal say, you're absolutely wrong. Where we're standing right now, you have to have courage, and you have to draw that courage from faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, and you have to stand firm.

So I look at this moment, by the way, I'm by no means, I'm not a pessimist. I do believe—I know how the Good Book ends in Revelation—we win, brother. We win. And so I have faith in what Christ has done and what He's going to do. I also believe long-term that if we're given another hundred years on this earth, guess what?

We win there too. I really do believe that. That's such a good word.

Ryan, we're almost out of time. Quick shout-out to the Stanford Freedom Center, your website, how we can pray for pastors. I've got multiple friends, like Travis, who's a member of a church that did the right thing, other pastors that are battling this that are literally called haters, just because they say, I believe God's book. I don't believe the political people.

I don't believe the cultural people. How can we pray for them, and what's your challenge as we wrap up here? Well, I think many of our pastors in this country are discouraged. We have an all-time high of mental health disorders all across the country, and I'm not talking about pastors, but I'm just saying that the stress of ministry. Many pastors are dealing with all kinds of brokenness in their community. They need encouragement. They do need support, and they need to hear from you. I would say, pray for your pastor, absolutely.

Send them a note of encouragement. If you're not volunteering in your local church, you better be. Find a way to serve your local church and to support your pastor. I would encourage folks, if they're listening, go to standingforfreedom.com. We have a number of biblical resources, worldview resources on a number of issues, including same-sex marriage, also the LGBTQ plus movement. We've got many articles there as well, but you can find resources there.

If you're doing a Bible study, there's a lot of material you can look at that will help and support you as you prepare. Wonderful. Give that website one more time, Ryan. Very good resource. standingforfreedom.com Yeah, I love it. And look, if you're a pastor, you're anywhere near that campus, Liberty in Lynchburg, Virginia. We've got an awesome station there, 93.7 FM, 101.5 FM, a great Truth Network affiliate in Roanoke.

Go by and see Ryan. Every time I walk in there, I walk out with a really cool book, resource, speaking the truth in love. Ryan, thanks for what you're doing, man, in the world and reaching people for Christ and for preaching the Word faithfully. You and Glenn and all the awesome team there at the Standard for Freedom Center. Well, thank you.

Well, it's an honor to talk to you. Friends, stand strong. Read 2 Timothy chapter 4. Preach the Word.

Have done with these other things. In any institution that doesn't recognize God's Word as the final standard is not a church. It's a club. It's a fun place to hang out, shake some hands, kiss some babies, but it's not a church. Find somewhere that's going to build you up in the faith and send you out into a world that needs to hear about Jesus while there's still time because the King is returning. This is the Truth Network.