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June 3, 2022 7:42 pm
Stu guest hosts on the Steve Noble Show and is joined by Pastor Mark Harris, Pastor of Trinity Baptist Church in Mooresville, NC and former NC Congressional candidate, to find out how his victory during the 2018 congressional election was stolen.
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I guess toasted for my buddy Steve Noble and we were able to capture that audio and playback for you today right here right now and truth talk. Be sure you download the podcast that comes out and I hope you will be encouraged.
God bless you and now today's addition of truth talk.
One of the race and yet the board of elections, particularly some individuals leave that board appointed by the opposition party pretty much just decided to decertify the election and take him out: the loser he almost died in the process from an unrelated health issue that almost took him to heaven and subsequent all this.
His wife wrote a book, Dr. Mark Harris wrote the epilogue. This book, the book is 13 ballots. The manufacturer scandal that overturned an election so pastor Mark Harris good on the radio today. My friend Stu that's a mouthful that it's good to be here honored to be with you today.
We want to give you an opportunity to tell your story.
You have been called all kinds of things to be called a liar, cheater, how could someone who's a preacher still election even compared to someone higher in the Mafia and all this stuff so there's been a lot of libel.
There's been a lot of misinformation, disinformation, pastor Harris and yet you still love Jesus and you still are trying to explain to people what really happened and it's interesting that before even the movie came out, which is taken the country by storm 2000 mules right was talked about the other election fraud in the big 2020 election before that happened in 2018. Another major North Carolina election District 9 was stolen itself you want to call in. Maybe you have a question maybe one of us do it all on you thought that you thought that pastor Mark Harris was wrong or you thought you heard it here so you bought the media's lies are you populace and the government we want to hear from you. My guest Dr. Mark Harris, who is now the pastor of Trinity Baptist Church in Mooresville, North Carolina, in a powerful preacher God's word I would hear this guy priest for multiple decades and if you go hear him preach, you will be blessed and encouraged.
Who is marketers.
Let's start there. I was asked that question. Well, you know, I'm just a sinner saved by grace is how I identify myself and very thankful.
I'm a husband to Beth this June we celebrate our 35th wedding anniversary.
Gradually, we have three beautiful children that have grown up and married well. We have two daughter laws and one son-in-law, and we have been probably the highlight of it, all nine grandchildren with the 10th one on the way in September so I'm poppy to them and so if you ask and whose Mark Harris. I can't talk about it without talking about my family because they are an incredible incredible blessing to me. Also euros in a role with the FRC which many knows the family research Council.S Tony Perkins and what's the main initiative you're doing them. Yes, about actually in early 2021 Tony Perkins and Gen. Boykin invited me to come up to DC and I had done things for several years with the family research Council. I really kinda got the community or culture impact teams started here in North Carolina Way back in 2014 and been involved in helping churches get engaged and so the marriage amendment. The management attitude exactly 2012. Let us drop first entrance into it. Okay so just does is assess a stator, today a majority of North Carolinians, including myself, went and voted that marriage between a man and woman to make that a constitutional amendment yes or and the guy sit in front of me was no stranger to this program, Dr. Mark Harris you really lead the charge to that of you and Tammy so many people Brian Brown so many folks came in from all over the country but really in North Carolina. Pastor stood up and said marriage between a man and a woman and we don't want to be forced to do an ungodly really a non-marriage. You know, in our churches will violate God's word. They pass they made it but again our government big brother had some other ideas on that's exactly right. And I mean that team that God brought together to as you said Tammy Fitzgerald was key in it in helping form vote for marriage and see campaign and Bishop Patrick wooden became a lifetime friend today.
After that, there in Raleigh of room. So yeah on the inter alia credible leader and the course. Also, Mark Creech, the Christian actually was heavily involved in that. And Mary Frances Forester whose husband had introduced the marriage amendment in the Senate and then had passed away with cancer before he actually got to see the actual marriage amendment passed but it was just a phenomenal team that was involved.
The North Anna family policy Council, Jerry from over there, was involved in our executive committee meeting so it was an important time in the past that marriage amendment 2012 and it was actually after that that I was invited to come up to DC to speak at the family research Council watchmen on the wall. Always tell people so that they invited me to come and just share the North Carolina story in terms of the marriage amendment and I really did not know all that much about family research Council. Tony had come down here and brought the bus during the marriage amendment. They had campaigned across the state and I had him speak at first Baptist Charlotte at that time, but it was after that when I went up there for the watchmen on the wall and I tell folks only spoke for about 30 minutes at a luncheon on Friday, but what I walked away with in those three days, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday.watchmen on the wall conference totally changed my perspective totally changed my understanding of the importance of pastors being engaged in the public arena and if if we don't step into the political arena.
If we don't step into civil government. If you don't step in and make a difference then were just surrendering and that was never the intention I learned more that we as American history and the role clergy placed in the founding of this country that it was a quick break to preacher run for Congress and what election it was stolen from him to an election that was stolen man of God who almost died all kinds of chaos and I'm not talking about 2000 mules, which is a hot movie that's all this going crazy all over the country that the news services are even want to talk about, but you might as you might want to go see that I haven't seen it yet, but I'm here in some crazy things about it and but what about this idea are election stolen that maybe there's one person listening out there that doesn't think that people cheat on elections. The old elections are stolen. I want to hear from you. Tell me Stu, you're all wet. Stu your nuts in this preacher. He's crazy get about here, but there was really nothing crazy about delivering your victory speech. Pastor Mark Harris ninth District of North Carolina won the primary one. The general election. Your opponent conceded you got more far more votes than he got a kick is still close race as everyone expected would be but you one you give your victory speech Europe in DC preparing, interviewing, and you, your passion is highly go back to Utah was a little bit in the last segment coming out of that segment your passion with FRC with washing the wall line.
She spoke is really serve Christ and onto God in a maybe not. So, God honoring spectrum of politics and I was really there something you're trying to be a light and salt pressure. Absolutely I think that was that was the main thing you know, before I even got into this and Beth talks a little bit about that. The book Mike Huckabee.
We reached out to Mike back in. I guess he actually came and spoke for me at first Baptist Charlotte background 2009, and Mike and his wife Janet invited us to come to New York. This is before I ever entered into the arena to run because I just want to get an idea about what it was like to transition from being a pastor to step into that arena. One of the things that Gov. Huckabee told me which by the way, he wrote the forward for this book and very meaningful forward that that he wrote but I'll never forget. He told me that night. He said the day I woke up and I won the election as a lieutenant governor in the state of Arkansas. He said it never changed who I was at the core, because as a pastor you have a pastor's heart, and he said all I realize that morning was I had a much larger church if you will that I'm now responsible for and he looked at the people that he was serving as is that minister and that's exactly the approach that I had taken even as I looked at the eight counties that made up District 9 and we were running, I told folks. We start as it were to run this election. Just like I was running for County Commissioner in eight different counties.
We went door to door. We had gatherings in every cash route all that's all it was all grassroots appeal is a separation of church and state. What's a preacher doing in politics what you say those people that make that divorce there. Well I I think one of the tragedies of that is when God calls you to pastor God calls you to preach God is going to use you as a finely tuned instrument in his hand and to me when I felt God leading me to step into that arena. It wasn't that he had shut down my call as a pastor because pastor every day, no matter whether a pastor of a particular church.
I have that pastor's heart and her caring for people ministering to people.
God just wants to use us in the gifts he is poured into us in a myriad of things I listen I'm no more special than that teacher that is pouring her heart or his heart into those students in that class reflective.
It's like Calvin's doctrine of vocation you're using your vocation that you serve Christ to be assault light in. I can't we take that back. And that's exactly what you're trying to until they took the election away from you, which is written about by your wife very eloquently in this book, 13 ballots, the manufactured scandal that overturned election, Grayson. We put lease on please list Dr. right-click a call from South America got a question pastor Mark Harris is with us and he is talking about his the book. His wife wrote about his whole story and journey about an election that was stolen just to quite shocking. As I read I read this book and I wish I'd heard stories are a lot of folks that even friends of mine pastor that criticized you and just didn't have the truth about what actually happened there right so there's a lot of vindication in this story, but also your goals, not just next to clear your neighbor to lift up the name of Jesus absolute all of this. Let's see what Lisa says about at least a welcome to the program you there hey there happy that you are feeling better and you were covered though there were a lot of people that were praying for you and know you that you made great thank you Lisa that that means the world to me. There were a lot of people praying and is made a difference. I'm I'm really back 150%, which is an incredible blessing for which we are yet immensely thankful. What I said what Lisa Scalise and pastor talk about for those just joints in the book just got a real bad illness that was unrelated to the all the stuff going on but just interesting. The timing the enemy attacking your body. Your body shut down almost to the point of death and thank the Lord for the medical folks.
The prayer warriors like these and others that were by your side, your wife and kids and so anyway, Lisa. Your thoughts are quick on the selection and election being stolen like this right under our noses. Citizens and fell and I don't agreement that I don't think you like: I don't think election stolen and I just would really encourage you to make sure that we don't rent all that I mean everybody that in office Congressman Forster. I didn't vote for that. He didn't get there by by any type of area way, neither did an art date in North Carolina and I just think it is a real good therapist to perpetuate this, you have not sent… And so in only*we appreciate your calling your point of view, enforcement, announcing that all elections are stolen at all times.
Of course that accident how it felt okay now were talking to an individual the marriage amendment was stolen. We voted for that and in the government overturned the will of the people that was evil and I think you and I hope you will agree with me on that.
Okay if there's another conversation for another day. If you don't, but in terms of Dr. Mark Harris, would you say to Lisa about your election being stolen.
Well Lisa, I would say this. There is so much more. We know now that we did not know when we were going through the evidentiary hearing in the way the whole thing played out, but the reality is.
This was the first time in history of North Carolina that an election by the state board of elections was overturned or not certified where the number of ballots in question did not exceed the number by which I had one.
In other words, I had one on election night. By 1860 votes.
I after they counted all of the provisional ballots which are questionable anyway. Sometimes they brought all of that down absentee ballot by mail that came in after election day. That number came down to 905 okay that was a different delay Lisa Gray questioning online more after this with pastor Mark Harris is now the author is Elizabeth there.
Her husband, Dr. Mark Harris after Harris is the cross for me right now I'm Stu Epperson host Drew talk and honor to be hosting the Steve Miller show right now with pastor's so much misinformation about what happened to him in 2018.
With the election that was stolen. The subtitle the manufactured scandal that overturned election a Dr. Harris you explain the Lisa who may or may not still be with us. I hope she is. She's very articulate in radiator is not. She was driving on the middle of nowhere but finish your thought on why in most elections were there's a dispute there's roles to have runoffs there is rules to have a recount right but in the case of your election. You said there were plenty of ballots, even the balance a question. What you put those aside. He still had enough votes to win and what they've the protocol is. They certify you're right that point, and that's what would've been and should have been the protocol and that had always been the gold standard out as I was saying before winter break on election night, I was up by 1860 votes over Dan McCready. He did not concede that night that he waited and slept on it. Then the next morning. I think they tried to look at whatever path there was in there just wasn't anything there. So around 430 5 o'clock.
He called me the next day and conceded the race so that was on Wednesday. On Monday I had to show up in orientation, so Beth and I are in Washington DC with a campaign manager at the time, Jason Williams, and we were just going through all the things orientation when it all came to a screeching halt. During the second week of orientation.
What really blew our minds were that when they started counting provisional ballots and counting absentee ballots by mail that came in after election day.
But before that Friday, my lead on the final day when they were get rid certify on campus. All the counties went from 1860 to 905 so but I still had one by 905 votes.
The gold standard had always been.
If there's not enough ballots in question, then you certify the election you take any questions of evidence or whatever and you turn it over to law enforcement, turn it over to the US attorney's office turned over to the district attorney whoever and let them investigated their professionals at doing this but what seem to happen with our situation is out of nowhere, there wasn't a single complaint during the election. There was no single complaint in the canvassing.
There was a single protest that have been filed. It was nothing.
Which is why we were proceeding on orientation. But then, on Tuesday, November 27 when the state board met out of nowhere. This motion is made by Josh Malcolm, who was a Lumbee Indian and who was on the state board of elections and the motion is made by him to withhold certification on the night district race because in his words, some unfortunate things have gone on in my part of the state themes which I can no longer turn a blind eye to them will what I heard this in orientation, think, and what in the world that we talked about here and it's almost like he was was talking in code that something happened that I knew is from Robison County said he was in my district right but for him to say that he could no longer turn a blind eye to whatever it was, it evidently turned a blind eye to it before right and he could no longer do it some credit. Present Cooper was elected in the same auspice. There were far more ballots in dispute. When Gov. Cooper was light in 20 yeah 94,000 ballots appeared out of nowhere during counting right and I love Lisa did explain that others explain where those came from within the state only a few thousand of those were actually tainted or some like that will you were decertified over far fewer valid so they withhold certification. Here's the real living in withhold certification on the governor right when he at one when a huge multiple more ballots were question and ignore me, us, and no one even knew where they came from well and this is where the danger of an out-of-control media happens because the media nationally mean it was Christmas just between Thanksgiving and Christmas. They converged on Little Bladen County like nobodies business amine CNN was there.
I mean, it was national news and what was fascinating about it is and they get down there the conversation just kinda goes wild. I start reading things in the paper about maybe thousands of ballots right to call our Russia Lloyd Rev. Harris was tampered with ballots himself on sentiment of this not let me just tell Lisa I had my doubts about what happened there, and I thought okay pastors got into deep this and that. Until I read this book and I didn't listen to the media. I listen to them way too long. Listen them way too long about the other stuff. This did this movie. By the way, don't go see this movie. If you have a close mind €2000 because the media is suppressing it like literally people are getting ticked off social media platforms were talk about €2000. Why were they afraid of. Let's look objectively at it. If the Nesta Souza's line then he's lying. Look at the facts in your case completely different thing in and if I would not apply apologize if I gave the insinuation earlier that all elections are are stacked or apologize if I gave that impression is not anything. When I met workers were done with the specific situation and I'm still upset about the marriage of everything where I can attest that when you but I will tell you still you make an interesting point that really tied into our race up until the legislature was Republican-controlled and I mean that we just gotta tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth here, the whole truth was, as a reaction they change the standard.
The standard had always been. If there's not enough ballots to change the outcome of the election, certify and turn it over law enforcement.
Well the Republican legislature were so upset with what happened. I guess in the Cooper McQuarrie race.
They moved the standard of taint T a INT from lower down the list to the top of the list so that if any individual could prove that their election was tainted therefore state board of elections could take the authority to call for a new election. All they wanting to do was to prove they felt like in their minds that are election was tainted.
I told her from the beginning. I don't know what McRae Dallas did or didn't do right.
I wasn't with him.
He was lousy at the operative everyone that this listing if you don't know I'm I'm Stu Epperson talking to pastor Mark Harris about the book 13 ballots. His wife wrote the manufacturer scandal overturned election as election was torn from in the center of the controversy was. It was a still you just mentioned is great, who had a a lot of folks say that he was tampering with ballots and all that he pleaded not guilty pleaded not guilty and all the way and maintained his innocence until he died in a unit is not some other things a bit of all his mother questionable things in it and even your son crosses a just watch out that just father-son political banter back and forth. That's right. A lot of folks have said your son is how you try this and that we got read the book you Natalia the family unit. So I actually talk to you directly enrich the book. But if the end of the day.
I would ask you about that. So whether or not there was any kind tampering.
It wasn't to the level of decertification and it wasn't to the level that you knew anything about it was going on, correct but let me just tell you why the books title 13 ballots. My wife did an incredible amount of research in this book the title. She came up with 13 ballots manufacturer scandal overturned election is because she took the indictment. When all was said and done and they had decided to call for new election and I had been sick.
As you mentioned earlier we get into that moment if you want to but I have decided to not run in the new election because of my illness and I had two surgeries I was gonna be facing. But when they indicted McRae Dallas.
My wife went back and read the indictment they indicted him for taking possession of 13 ballots over three elections dating all the way back to 2016. I wasn't even running for office in the fall of 2016 when they claimed that he had taken ballots and so 13 ballots over to in my particular election against McCready, the one that was overturned to McRae was accused of taking two ballots and mailing them in and I will say this point this is something important for Lisa to know the director of the state board of elections Kim Strack would say at Davidson College very clearly there's videotaped in their state to it that when it was all said and done. They did not find any evidence that any ballots were taken while and destroyer that was a fake news, fake memento narrative. In fact, she said every ballot was accounted for in in their work at the state resume assesses gotta be true. He's pastor Mark Harris. The book is 13 ballots. He's in the hot seat he's come on to talk about this after the event a probably a little less painful.
As I went now than when it was all going on. And of course we been told that there are no elected scandals whatnot but the party in charge the party charge the media is the one that's putting that missive out there.
The one saying that and so let's go deeper beyond just the political casino at bottom line is you can ask a elephant in your heart. You can ask at the dog in your heart you know Peter there's a hell is going to be full of conservative Republicans hell will be full of liberal Democrats. The question is do you have Christ in your heart you know him and that's it the other day. Pastor Mark Harris that your heartbeat but a lot of times you'll get accused of the FRC family research Council, even by running for Senate like you did by running for Congress like you did. You'll be accused of crossing that line to be into political and opening the church up, you know, what about separation of church and state all that stuff. How do you respond to that and how you scan us to address all of the listeners. Other listing like we thought this was a Christian radio station 42 a time of politics and elections in scandals and committees and boards and certifications and certifications and an election stealing well think it's important for every one of us to always remember that we are believers, and follower of Christ first before were Republican before were Democrat before where unaffiliated.
We are washed in the blood of the Lamb. And that is the most important title that we carry is a blood washed born-again believer in Jesus Christ and that that has to always be the case but you also was a Christ follower must follow his teaching and he teaches us very clearly there even in the sermon on the mount that first great sermon he delivers in Matthew five, six and seven and is there. You're going to find Jesus talking about that you are the salt of the earth and you are the light of the world and he talks about the importance of the salt bringing that saltiness bringing that flavor and we as believers have got to make an impact in our culture to really fulfill the plans and purposes that God has for us. Otherwise moment you get saved boom you just go to heaven because you'd be of no use down here you can go to heaven immediately as a believer and follower of Christ, that we live to make a difference here and whether that's in the political arena, whether that's in the arts or whether that's in journalism and whether that's in education, you could just name all of the different areas of our society where we've got to be salt and light and unfortunately Christians because they they sense that that political issues automatically divide just say we gotta ignore them and put our heads in the sand so that we could have unity. That's not what the Bible teaches we don't put our heads in the sand.
We have unity because of Christ and what he brings into our hearts and lives.
Listen will always disagree on political issues. But there are many issues that really aren't Republican or Democrat there just right or wrong. The issue of life is something that God's word speak specifically to and there's just not a lot of room for compromise on that the issue of marriage and family. God's word speak specifically on those issues. There's just not a lot of room around religious freedom is something that God's word speaks to. There's not a lot of wiggle room around there's forces that want to shut this program down there so I don't want us to speak the truth and trust as you say Jesus is the only way I want us out of there that are already censoring people for for such things? Here's what about the idea of the stewardship or vote every believer in this country were in there it, you now have an opportunity to vote.
Some of those countries.
The book of acts is run in inlet go try voting assemblies, radicals, states Muslim states even in them in the Middle East. Whatnot you don't have this democracy, we have a democracy with the Republic so we actually have a stewardship so maybe it's not been a good steward babies made a poor steward. If I'm not tithing my church.
If I'm not voting Metro here in Reno I are somewhat totally less than 50% of believers were registered to vote even voted in the last election cycle electronic so what may be getting so your vote can make a difference, but at the same time you're not putting all that you're a snap basket which are your practicing being a citizen. God put us on this earth. And it's a stewardship correct.
There's no question I have oftentimes a living example that every vote counsels when I ran for the night district in 2016 and the primary there were three of us running in that primary and I finished second by hundred and 34 vote as well so out of 30 some thousand votes that were cast. I came up 134 vote short and then when I would see people in airport that would abs going to the convention actually at celebs convention somebody in the airport said Omar man I hate that.
He said I hate even worse to tell you that my wife and I just didn't get a chance to vote and I won't thought man I would've never told me that the millionaires what a godly man, I just hauled off and hit him like them. So I mean really vote counts in every Mrs. A. Don't count two or three times and some of the press is going our grade for this book.
13 about your wife did a great job, Elizabeth Harris, a godly wife your she's been by your side, kids, grandkids, the manufacturer scandals overturned election. I encourage everyone to give us forward by Gov. Mike agree learn a lot about the man you would hear from all our Pastor Mark Harris as we wrap up real quickly. You're now full-blown pastoring tell us where you are now in what God is doing and also comment you know there is a big scandal in the southern Baptist convention unity Minnesota baptistery years and give us some hope there are no there were some corruption some things were buried a lot of shameful things happen you know an absolute no give us some hope and encouragement of what you see can be the next healing process therapy would well let me say this today. I served as pastor of Trinity Baptist Church and Mooresville. As you mentioned in love just preaching the word week in week out and loving those precious people also served as vice president of family research Council for the Association of churches and ministries all across the nation of Christian leaders coming together and being a part of that. So were seeking to make a difference in the speak in to society and awaken the church listen.
I've been praying for the all 35 years I've been pastoring I have been praying and crying out for another great awakening in this nation and we desperately needed and so I'm very grateful for that. But does come out over the last 48 hours was a report of the Southern Baptist convention disheartening. In some ways and disappointing in some ways, I will say is there hope for Southern Baptist, absolutely because probably there's looking at the 17 recommendations that come out.
I don't see that there's really a problem with any of those recommendations or may be some disagreement over how to exercise one thing or another and people do have to remember at the end of the day Southern Baptist convention is one of the most unique non-denominations in the entire world because it literally is independent. Every local church is an autonomous, independent local church. We don't get our orders from Nashville.
We don't have bishops priest overseeing what we do. We don't have that kind of structure. Our structure is only working together for one reason and that is to be able to do missions around the world and that's how we can put thousands of missionaries on the field because we realize we can do a whole lot more together than we could ever do a part in getting people to every nation on the continent to be able to share the gospel of Jesus Christ. So I believe and I'm hopeful that Southern Baptist will come through this situation, recognize that the intent the people had.
I don't believe even when I read the report and and some folks are just sort of pinpointed as dropping the ball or pinpointed of trying to cover something up.
I I honestly think if you understand the way Southern Baptist convention is structured you, you read it through a different lens and you understand that nobody was necessarily overall, perhaps trying to cover something up as much as they were trying to look at the overall situation and deal with them one-on-one so there's a lot of conversation to be had unrepentant lot of penance. It is to have other individuals that did do things that are clearly in violation of God's word and where those cases happen. There needs to be repentance brokenness will be restoration and healing operate and and is a dimension of the whole. We just gotta make sure that we examine our own hearts and will examine our own hearts and believe that we been forgiven and we stand before God clothed in the righteousness of Christ alone then that way we can reach out our hand to other people to touch their lives as well off the leg in the way of mission, but deftly praying that that that will be that replenish that core that Syrian nature of that this thing will will be dealt with adjudicated and will be a return core values of Christ and his word really preaching God's word faithfully like you're doing only problem so it is enemy. Say you folks are interested.
Listen, there was a God that is given his life to working through election and it's called voter integrity project.com and I would encourage people to go there guys named Jay Delancey. He looked at all of this is good he's given his life to it, even though me anything certainly didn't know that I douse anything and yet it's voter integrity project.com voter integrity project.com if you want the book can reach me at email@example.com Dallas, this is the Truth Network