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June 9, 2021 1:00 am
Reconnect with community...revitalize your church's reputation! Stu talks with Pastor Mark MacDonald about his book, "Be Known For Something," and the importance of church branding.
Not cuticle off the Russian nightmare know the devil's nightmare here from it's time to man up challenging men step into their true manhood. Your chosen Truth Network podcast is starting in just a few seconds.
Enjoy it, share it, but most of all, thank you for listening to the truth. Podcast network. This is good Truth Network what are you known for. There is a man in the studio folks here to talk live right now this guy is asking a question a lot of people he's hoping a lot of you will do what I think he is Mark McDonald welcome to talk live. My friend, thank you so much for having me this is great I II know you personally and and we've had that you know that head-to-head discussion over what are you known for and what you are known for that reputation. How do you control it.
It's big in what you're doing. Speaking really all over the country to so many church leaders about this and really how you hard to reach people with the good news of Christ and yet silly times. The church shoot itself in the foot unnecessarily and so I want to talk with her today I want to hear your story. The book is being known for something recognizing with community reconnect with community by revitalizing your churches reputation that's true, and we have to make sure that we understand what our reputation is what is that perception.
So what is your churches reputation. That's a fascinating question what revenues he wanted to be no you were going to go in the marketing here were to talk about all these different nuances were to talk about how a church can effectively reach people in their community with the good news of Jesus Christ.
Mark tell us about you know who is Mark McDonald. Man, I hear Canada hear all kinds of things I've known you forever and it's been fun because it's I was just telling her other special guests in the studio.
My former college coach about how you always know marketing people because they always give you good insights, sometimes not.
Not you know like insight sometimes painful insights would get insights into how to more effectively do what God told you to do, but it's kind of neat because you really did put the market marketing yeah I've always wondered that I think I found the guy who markings name aftermarket without media be just be added adding and editing editing editing, but you have a background that you find yourself at this you find yourself with this kind a like Bible Belt, fundamentalist college grown up in Canada traveling down mom and dad drop you off in his audios with getting your store. I don't know if you may want to start their sure. Well, I mean I am Canadian, a anyone who is listing this Canadian let's all raise our Tim Horton's mug.
But I I grew up in Canada and inning East Coast Canada and it was really through going through at Bob Jones University.
I graduated with graphic design degree and in communications wanted to get into that agency business got back home and and God just had a plan for my life where I kinda clawed my way to the top of one of Eastern Canada's largest ad agencies and I became senior creative director there and the whole time that I kept struggling with how do I get better. How do I make sure that I I take the products that that I've been allowed to work with. How do I take them to market.
I kept thinking you know how does God use this. How does God use what I'm learning because we have the greatest product ever and end 17 years ago we moved back to the North Carolina and and we set up an agency that works entirely restrict with churches become an agency called be known for something and what we want to do is we go across the country. We talk it at church conferences and we encourage pastors to just take a step back, what are you known for what are the things that your community want you to be known for and and the sad realization is that most churches have disconnected from their community that there are so congressional arc know that the wrong word guy Congregational inwardly focused so that you know they hear what their the person that sitting in the pew wants what the ministry should be what they what they really need.
And because of that high constant conversation that happens between pastors and and the people in the pew. The congregation tends to the church becomes about them rather than why did God places in the end of this community and how do we make sure that they pay attention to us and the statistics aren't very good. While she used you get the church, step back is to start with this and you may show up at someone's church listing your applying shopper I am. We call it a mystery visitor I think is pretty cool.
I read of it was is reading your book, which, thank you for the updated do to really look at this before even came out.
I was kind of blown away by that, I thought, man who's this person excuse me sir, you're in my seat me and want to have set that seat for the last 50 years. What are you doing there, it just tells me the mystery visitor you know but but what is that well is money because I was just a in a church in Florida and am when I sat down in the pew pursing bike hesitated right next to me and looked at me and gave me that look of your probably sitting in my seat so it does happen, but the important thing. What we want to do when we work with the church as we wanted.
Take a look at where are the people coming from. What is the neighborhood of the church was the community what we call the reach area and in what we do is we do a complete demographic study of that reach area who are the people that live there.
What'd what's her average age what's their main concerns and what are their goals and what we do is a mystery visitor we take on us the persona of the people that are living around the church and when we walk.
You know, get out of our cars in the parking lot and walk into the church and experience the services for that first time we tried to try to take on that role of what would a person who isn't a church person from the community.
What would they feel like when they arrived they just came upon this church or their experience be and what I found is oftentimes in fact there is that there is a church that we are working with in California.
I ended up with you. I get out of out of out of my car, walked in experiences.
Service was a great service.
Then I thought well I'll go to the info desk is that's where everyone needs to go there, guest services, so I walked up the to the guest service person and said that I loved what I saw in there. Do you have any like small groups or Bible studies, Sunday school that I could actually go to and she looked at me as it is in this your first time no one ever assets that and that and that's where the dictations oftentimes of the church is that people are coming to the doors guests are coming in and they're not seeking out that information when we do seek out those that information. Oftentimes it's hard to come by. Interesting. So Mark would also guess you got his new book be known for something in is just so fun to talk to a marketing guy who has a heart for the church to see the church really growing that's really coming talk. Describe your passion if you were narrow down your your be known for something. Well I I really want the church to become concerned for the people that live around them, rather than just concern for their vision or the mission of of who actually comes to the church where everyone wants to talk about our church's DNA, but is not about your church's DNA. It's about your community's DNA and you have to make sure that you look like your community. If you ever want your community to come in so my passion is at. How do I help a church actually figure out what is it that our community needs and how do we how do we come up with that thread what we call the thread concept that will be an equalizer of all of our ministry so that that that thread is talked about in such a way that the community will listen to it and then how do we connect that thread to the scarlet thread of Jesus Christ okay in that's not where I want to go there.
That whole redemptive which is your heart and I want to get into this whole discussion of how far do I go you know a great book what you quoting your your book or you recommend nine Marksville the church were marked ever says he says at what point does the church become more like the world to reach the world and what is the church becoming more conforming to the world worldly in that or is it more of a transforming source in your is the question is you don't meet will let me let you answer that it's it's it's it's it's a difficult gets attention that we have to face Paul says we become all things to all people that we might save some will.
If we if we are in a community we should somewhat be an area where somebody from the community would want to come in so you know you and you and I both talked about this. This isn't crossing over and trying to do sinful things so that sinners will feel comfortable I become more worldly pursuit. Hold on that thought is getting a break ;-) backward Mark McDonald and how can your church specifically French listeners be thinking how your church can specifically connect and reach your community more effectively do you have to dumb the word down.
You have to become more shallow, you have to be less discipleship or can you be a biblical church and do all this Marston tells how we come back.
I hope your Mark absolutely okay more to thought life could affect the singing. What is your church known for Stu Epperson truth talk live on with Mark McDonald, who is not just a joint marketer and that just love the church is very funny person so I start cracking of the gross interview market.
I've known each other forever and a lot of great mutual friends go to the same church and he is a sisal teacher and I and I should know that because every Saturday night. I'm writing his lessons is that markets get old, but I just know I hear this class is grown tired of waiting for the next quarter.
Well, when he had a rhino it's, you know, I hear you guys have the biggest class at the church and so now we know why right. I don't think is the largest class. But however you know it's interesting because we have this group of people who come together every week and I get to actually practice what a pastor would do, where he has to figure out. So what do I talk to them about how do I engage them. How do I use the principles that I when I sit down with a pastor I'm trying to get him to figure out how do you engage with your audience and good communications always rises and falls on your audience. See if you don't know your audience, you will never communicate well to them and as soon as you do know your audience. Then you have to realize that every pastor has two audiences. They have the congregation the internal and then the have you community the external and we have to make sure that were constantly talking to both audiences or else one will lose interest and we know that the communities lost interest in the church yet and there's challenges churches are dying.
There's a lot of there's a lot of good things out as great churches, but there's a lot of sadly buildings being sold in yet 4000 churches in America every year. Close the door. The they just disobey here okay.
And the sad thing is is that the community draws by those empty buildings and they don't miss them. And if your church disappeared today. Would anyone miss you.
No one knows you're either yeah exactly convicting question and then when you look at the churches that do exist 80% of them are in decline or stagnation of the Dave stop growing the in other words, they've lost connection to community. Communities are growing churches are shrinking well so the book is be known for something reconnect with community by revitalizing your church's reputation. The authors Mark McDonald, the forwarders by Dr. Gary in who speaks five languages according to some sort, any and all in love yet he's a linguist fairly. But that's really cool to get his endorsement and then you have some wonderful no chapters in here all will is interesting though Dr. Gary Chapman did write this book called five love languages up and in the key to the five love languages is you can express love to someone, but if they don't accept it as love. It's wasted love and in the same sense this book is saying you can communicate but they don't accept the communication properly. You might as well not be communicator and Jesus said in John 13 you know right after they find out that Judas is going to be the guy leaves the room and then they have this discussion over what should we be known for is not quite in those were right and I are very close and then Jesus says, well they'll know you're my disciples you, they'll know that your Christ followers.
If you have love one towards another. And often times we in love, we create a reputation around us in our church that our community doesn't feel that law they just see it as a very negative thing. That's why the books called be known for something because the perception of the church right now is that were against alright thanks again so is your church engaging the lost in your community. Are they doing things to be creative to see your euros loss you church can be creative can enjoy and have fun and do things completely out of the box with the goal of connecting the redemptive threat know what you talk about that part two tickets to that thought process. Well, I mean why can't the church be known for creativity. Oftentimes what I hear is you know what we probably don't want to do that because we've always done it this way and that and there are some things that the Bible is really clear about, and I'm not talking about you know, deciding that the Bible is wrong so we should be doing it totally creator. Instead, I'm saying okay in the confines of the fences that the Bible has established how can we have fun within those fences.
How how do we teach people doctrinally. How do we raise up our our kids and in the way of the Lord and what we want to do is we want to do that in his creative way as possible. And you know God kinda taught us all about creativity and I think that we need to emulate that it is sad that the world to be more creative can be excellent things and you look at even last few centuries where the world were the, the, the church and Christians were leading thinkers and artist and in the Renaissance and in all these areas of science, like Pascal and all these inventors and yet what happened you know we cannot we get a lost arts with lost Hollywood, we lost the sink so this is really coming back as a hey use your mind, use your brain and back to what you said to clarified our listeners. This is true talk lives to ever steer market on is my special guest today is new book be known for something just came out in give this to your pastor, your church leader as they think through what you're what you church known for is only they can ask a question answer the question what you're not in this book, you're not setting up of your essay have a doctoral treatise here or you know your your assuming a lot of things are assuming there balanced Bible teaching Bible believing discipleship biblical view of ministry billable flossy ministry.
What this is is now that you have those key axiomatic things in place. Now what are you doing to be that shining light. Jesus talked about in Matthew 522 and reach the world before in in John four here. Here Jesus is and he goes and sits down at Jacob's well and he waits. It's a great place to wait because every person is coming along as can have a need and sure enough, this woman comes along with a need. But Jesus sees a much greater need. There's there's clearly a spiritual need there but instead of engaging her on the spiritual need. First he talks to her about water and and by engaging her with her thirst and her water. Instantly he gets her engagement. She she starts paying attention and then see that becomes the temporal thread that the threat of his communication was about water and then he makes this shift and and he does such a great job.
He makes the shift by saying, so what if I could give you water that you never thirst again and she sits up well yeah as well and that's where I think a lot of churches they paid, they stop doing the right date, the communication properly. You might have a temporal thread were your breathing into your community and you got engagement but if you're not making that turn that strong biblical turn to Jesus Christ and talking about the scarlet thread, and the redemption that comes through Jesus's blood.
Then then you're dropping the ball's arrow everything should take people ultimately to Jesus, absolutely.
So if you got you have the best donuts you guys have the best light show. The best band the best for you know color scheme. Everything even get into those things and all the phonetics in the. The aesthetics of a church, but if it doesn't take people to that redemptive threat and talk about how important it is that redemptive threat and kind of that's where you're trying to get these churches to go roasting out there so every church needs to know what their temporal thread is what it what is the solution to the needs of the community. What is the path to the goals of the community as soon as you get that temporal thread and you start uniting your ministries underneath that, then you want to make sure that that thread is clearly attached to what Jesus said we should be known for, which is love and then that love connects to his love, which is why he died on the cross so that that scarlet thread that unites all 66 books of the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. It unites all kinds of crazy stories and books and no matter where you stop in Scripture you instantly can say okay so I know how this ties back to Jesus Christ and in the same sense your temporal thread can bring all your ministries together to make sure that that they are united so that the community will look at you and say I know what their they're all about 1111 your T-shirt which is XL. Thank you for thinking about the people like me to play ball on this. I tried to stretch along a lot in those sunglasses. These are thread glasses you talk about this in your book right after that.
Well, after you have your thread established.
Oftentimes what you need to do is you need to look around your ministries to see. So how does that connect to the thread. Most people's website, social media and email all those things are broken. The communication tools because there is no one common thread that unites everything together. So what we want you to do is put on your thread glasses. We have the sunglasses we call thread glasses put on your thread glasses and start looking to see how you can tie every part of your ministry together to the thread as Supermart to help you how to get this book be known for something. Pastors, church leaders, maybe a fun gift free to give your pastor listing into somewhere. If you go to church Riverfront and ministry be a good gift about what's the best way for people to get this book in the hands of error of the people that they's that serve them of courses on Amazon and you can also go to be known book.com and and what we've done is at the end of every chapter. We have discussion questions right at pastor can lead their ministry staff through so this is a an easy book to read and an easy book to lead and we want to make sure that people are team reading it and as groups of of ministry leaders get together.
Don't pass chapter unless you've answered all the questions.
Ultimately, at the end of this book, you should be able to figure out what you should be known for.
And then the last part of the book X he talks about communication strategy how to make your website, social media, email, print materials, all of those things communicate well I do so: ultimately, the person listening. That's not necessarily a pastor or minister is in a church, your huge light you're the you're the greatest marketing for the church as you go, bring people to Christ and bring them to be disciple to your church and you disciple them right marketing were all sharing.
This is the body of Christ. Absolutely, we are the church and as the church person you have a community and this book will walk you through how do you actually engage with that community around you and show the love of Christ vessel: McDonald's book is be known for something reconnect with community by revitalizing your church's reputation forward by Dr. Gary Chapman some great chapters. Very practical for the church. Who's your audience for this doubt, put about only turn it back on you. Who would you say your audiences for this. Our listeners will know to shore AI me.
Mainly it's for pastors, people who are leading a group of people. The congregation, but also there is this new ministry leader. This growing up in the church, the communications director of the person in charge of the bulletin in the website, social media and it really helps them focus and and simplified the church just has got to*find the message so that it reaches a whole lot further because of a a message said in unison will reach further than a message that's done in harmonies really are more on the same sheet of music absolutely no we stand for the course.
The Bible is our mission statement. But here's several private ways.
We live in this culture is the Bible doesn't talk about you know of a Venti mocha light with soy. You know it or in a horror of you know Mark Carl Maki auto note that nowhere in the Bible so your church reasonable coffee station. It is me.
That's not biblical. It just means that's a cool way to for people to connect right marketing. This is really it's it's it's very practical but it's something that we need to think about because we want to reach people for that with the good news of Jesus Christ. There's nothing wrong with having a safe area so that your community can come in and find about you find out about Jesus. Okay Mark McDonnell, Mark.
Thank you in that you give the website give it one more time you will be known book.com be known book.com very good.
I know you got cool videos and stuff like that and you're on your all over social media and the future of the church wants to have you out a lot of churches like to have you out as a a help us with all the stuff social media, Facebook, Instagram confluence due to ice dunes going off sorry, but you know how to become snow how to be you don't have a Facebook page over here in the website here. This is some totally different that's right.
And if you go to be known for something.com you'll find out all about the known and can also follow me on social media under Mark Mack 1023. So after all these years in marketing, you finally hooked up with the ultimate winning team. The ultimate winning organization or organism. Should I say the church right absolutely are, like you're always good to be the champion because you're part of him shifting it. Can you give me that Kenya absolutely, and we have to make sure that we simplify our message uniter messages so that people will be one for Jesus, yes, and in that the team would act like a champion. We are yeah like the winners.
We are instead of you losers level well were weak, we can always cry this and that way let's let's wear our colors and let's lift up our Lord's name and let's do it to bring him glory.
Let's do an excellence for Pete's sake. That's what you talk about appreciate your friendship man appreciate you, not your thought life and we will deftly be get some feedback from from our listeners, and you know you follow still call me on twitter at Stu Epperson we have a true talk.
We have a Truth Network Twitter@Truth Network and then also on Instagram image that before and I fall you on Instagram market.
Your be known for something when they go to your site will see all your different outlets and how to get plugged in that devilish my friend. Thank you church be the church be known for something be known for something. This is the Truth Network