Defending Religious Liberties!

This is Robbie Dilmore from The Christian Car Guy and Kingdom Pursuit, where we hear how God takes your passion and uses it to build a kingdom. Your chosen Truth Network Podcast is starting in just a few seconds.

Enjoy it and share it, but most of all, thank you for listening and for choosing the Truth Podcast Network. This is Truth Talk with Stu Epperson, and I'm sitting with one of the leading Christian attorneys in the world who's helped believers, churches, people of faith survive and stand up for what's right. And he loves Jesus, and he loves the Constitution, and he is David Gibbs III. David, thanks for joining us today, my friend. Stu, it's my honor to be with you, and I hold you and your ministry in such esteem, and you're absolutely right. We are watching where the Christian faith, the gospel, is under attack in our country, and I'm a big believer that the hope of America is not in a courtroom, it's not in the State House, or it's not in the White House. We need to vote and be involved, but it is in the church house. God's people need to live and act like God's people, and so we're honored to stand with thousands of churches across the nation, ministry leaders, broadcasters, and others that are the salt and light and making a difference in our country. So let me ask this question that everyone's wondering, and this question goes deeper. I mean, there's a guy on the surface, then there's a deeper component, and there's so many things you do.

Who is David Gibbs? Well, I am a legal missionary, and what that means is I'm an attorney that is working for the Lord. I love that I get to represent Jesus Christ through his people, and I do want to say this. We're honored to stand and to serve, but the heroes are the people that are standing there, whether it's a mom fighting for the life of her child in a hospital, whether it's the preacher that's trying to figure out how do I effectively minister in a community, whether it's a youth pastor that is saying how do we minister to these kids that are in this broken or troubled home. Those are the real heroes, and so what we're honored to do, oftentimes I think of the analogy of Moses.

He had his arms up in the air, and then the men came and propped, and the children of Israel prevailed while he had his arms up. Well, I look at these great heroes like yourself all across the country that have their arms in the air, and if we as attorneys can step up and help prop and help keep them strong so they can keep doing what they're doing, that's what we're all about. I love it. You just handed me your brochure, the National Center for Life and Liberty. I love this quote on the front, If it's wrong, fight it.

If it's right, fight for it. And you do have a big picture of a church with a steeple, the traditional bell there. David Gibbs, what got you into this? Tell us your story. How did you come to know Christ? I mean, there's still people out there that think Christian attorney is an oxymoron, so help dispel that for us.

Tell us a little bit about your testimony and then your journey into being a legal missionary. Well, I had the privilege of growing up in a Christian home, and I don't take that for granted because I know many children and people around the world don't have that faith heritage. And I even go back multiple generations where some of my grandparents and great-grandparents were involved in church and ministry. And so I rejoice that I was able to come from a family that believed in Jesus. And then at an early age, I had a Sunday school teacher that said, you know what, there's a place called heaven that we want to go to, and there's a place called hell we want to avoid. And I thought, wow, that makes a lot of sense. And so as I accepted Jesus, and I understand you don't get it because of your family or the church you went to.

It's a personal decision. But I accepted Jesus Christ as my Savior as a young child. And then I had a dad that was in the legal world, similar to what you've done with your dad in broadcast and ministry. And I grew up watching some things. I watched some pastors that were coming under attack.

I watched some Christian schools, some homeschoolers and others that were watching their faith threatened. And I thought, you know what, I want to be the kind of person that helps real people with real problems. And so I went to law school with the vision of being a legal missionary, being an attorney.

And I started now over 30 years ago and just honored to stay at it. And you mentioned the motto of the NCAA. You know, there's so many things that are wrong in our country. And I think people appreciate it when you say, you know what, with a good spirit, let's stand against what's wrong. But then also there's a lot of really right things.

I mean, there's the moms that love their kids. There's the pastors that minister to their congregations. There's the people that are the salt and light in the schools or in the workplaces. And those people are doing good things and they need our support. And so we're honored to stand up for what's right in our country. And I encourage people to think about, you know, what kind of influence are you having? But as legal missionary attorneys, I'm honored to stand in support of all the good things that you want to do.

I love it. And you're here at this Vision Conference at Colonial Baptist Church hosted at the Shepherd Seminary of Great Ministry in Cary, North Carolina. You're speaking to pastors. We've got a dear Nigerian pastor friend here who is, you know, picking your vast legal brain to talk about and to figure out how to navigate through all these issues in churches today.

What's facing these guys? And how are you a breath of fresh air to them and encouragement to them here at this Vision, at the Shepherd 360 Conference here in Cary, North Carolina? And by the way, this church and Pastor Davey and the others here in leadership do a world class job ministering.

And so I'm honored to be their lawyer and to come in and to help provide help to other churches. But I think as we look at, you know, kind of the whole world right now, I think a theme we can all agree with is times have changed. We're in a different world. I mean, child protection used to be boys with boys, girls with girls. And now we have all these same sex allegations. We used to be able to, you know, gather together without question. Now we have public health and other concerns that have reached out or whether it's safety, security, other areas. A little virus that's kind of changed the climate a bit, hasn't it?

Oh, absolutely. And people say, when will it get back to normal? And Stu, what I've said is, you know, it is the new normal.

And we just need to realize that public health is going to be on the minds of people. You know, I live in the world where if you sneeze, you said, God bless you. Now we put up a cross and say, get away from me, murderer.

So it is a different world. But helping pastors, what we stress is maximum ministry, doing everything God's called you to do, but to do it with minimal liability, to do it in a way that you don't create any unnecessary risk, whether it's to life, to health, for liability purposes. So, for example, we just finished a workshop before this interview where we were talking about the new online world and helping churches navigate that successfully. And so we are certainly honored as an organization to stand with churches. If somebody wants to learn more, our website is ncll.org. And we are honored to stand with folks that want to make a difference, whether it's in church leadership or in your own life. We are legal missionaries wanting to help.

I love it. And I'm looking at your brochure right now. I really am encouraged by the NCLL, the National Center for Life and Liberty. David Gibbs is here with me, who's the head of this organization. I'm Stu Everson. This is Truth Talk. And there's like four prongs to this brochure. I'd love to share it, if I may.

Please. Church liberties, parental rights and liberties, individual liberties, and then issues of life. And I just really, each one of these things are near and dear to the heart of God. And so you're his servant, but you're also in a legal space trying to display God's grace.

That could be a good rhyme, by the way. In a legal space, but displaying God's grace. How important is that? At the end of the day, it's the gospel. At the end of the day, the part of the world where our brother's from, just across the border in Sudan, they're killing Christians.

And they have no legal representation, and all the legal representation might be corrupt over there. So how do you incorporate the gospel and grace into this such critical thing that you're doing, David Gibbs? Well, and Stu, I believe firmly that if we don't fight for liberty here in America, and I'm talking individual liberty, life liberty, gospel liberty, church liberty, that the rest of the world has no hope. Because America is the bastion of freedom for the world, as well as the center of missionaries. And so the devil knows that if he can undermine the liberties we have here in America, that the gospel would suffer all around the globe. And so we believe firmly that this is the moment to go into the courts, go into the legislative halls, go into the medias, to go into pulpits, but to encourage people that it now is not the moment to be scared. I always think of Acts chapter 4 and verse 29. The early church prayed, Lord, behold their threatenings and grant unto thy servants that with all boldness they may speak thy word. And right now we need renewed boldness, whether it's on the airwaves, whether it's in the church house, whether it's in individual lives, we need to boldly declare the truth of the Word of God. I love that. And one final word, if you would speak to people out there who are struggling right now.

They're struggling with the political acrimony, the chaos. Would you speak to the—and I just love how we started this conversation with you, sir, about how you made it very clear from the beginning who the Supreme Court really is. The God of the universe, Isaiah 66, he says, Heaven is my throne and the earth is just a footstool. Will you speak to the ultimate primacy of Jesus Christ as Lord? And will you challenge everyone listening the importance of his law, his rule, his reign, and how that helps you sleep at night?

Because I don't know how you can't sleep at night. Even as a lawyer, you know a whole lot more of the law than I do. You've seen a whole lot more than any of us have.

But take us to the main thing, if you would. Well, and I want to encourage folks with this. Nothing in your life, whether it's cancer or whether it's good health, whether it's a lot of money or a lot of bills, nothing in your life catches God by surprise. And I think sometimes we give ourselves a lot of stress, Stu, by trying to control what we can't control. I mean, the early church faced all of this difficulty, hostile government, being tortured, fed to lions, burned at the stake, but they boldly declared the truth of the word of God. And accepting the fact that God is in control and all we can control is our response or our reaction. And I always encourage Christians, whether this is in a court case or in daily life, take the right stand, it'll line up with the word of God. Do it the right way.

We can be pro-life, but we're not going to go blow up buildings. That's the wrong way. The right stand, the right way. But then, number three, done with the right spirit. And I always challenge folks, your spirit is your testimony. And that's, by the way, what I love about you and your ministry, what you do. You do it with a spirit that lifts up the name of Jesus Christ. Amen. David Gibbs has spoken. He is a legal missionary. I just love that. David Gibbs, one more time, the website and how folks, churches, pastors, individuals, that need someone like you or vice or sounding board can reach out to you.

What's the best connection? We're a phone call or an email away. We litigate in all 50 states. But ncll.org, National Center for Life and Liberty.org, ncll.org. And we'd be honored to serve any of the churches or any of the listeners. We answer those questions and we do it as a missionary at no charge to you.