This is the Truth Network. Welcome to Truth Talk Live. All right, let's talk the truth now. I can't hide. A daily program powered by the Truth Network.
This is kind of a great thing, and I'll tell you what. Where pop culture, current events, and theology all come together. York. And now, here's today's Truth Talk Live host. Everybody wants to go to heaven.
But nobody wants to die. Name that tune. Everybody wants to go to heaven. Welcome to Truth Talk Live. We are here with our Truth Talk Live host, Dr.
Abadan Shah. Dr. Shah, it's good to see you. That was an interesting way to say. I would like to poll and see how many Truth Talk hosts begin with Name That Tune Karaoke.
I'm going to guess it's 0%.
Well, now it's 33.3%.
Well, hey, there you go. Dr. Shah, we have been talking a lot over on the Clearview Today show about how to get to know God. And we've been talking a lot about judgment, a lot about eternity. And today we wanted to sort of continue this conversation for our Truth Talk Live listeners on salvation.
You know, heaven for a lot of people is this make-believe goal, or maybe this kind of real but lofty goal that I really don't know anything about. And I'm hoping one day that I get there. I just don't know how to do it. Yeah. Yes.
I mean, unfortunately, the further we get away from biblical Expository preaching, the harder it is for people to truly have that assurance of salvation. You know, both those things are connected. The more you study the word of God, the more you understand what the Bible really says, the theology of salvation, the more you know that you know, that you know, and no one can take that away. And so, I I hope in today's truth talk, we can talk a little bit about salvation, the various theories that people have out there, and they have some merit. But let's get down to the core of what salvation is really, truly all about.
Right. And I think you're absolutely right. I think there's a lot of people who struggle with this idea of assurance of salvation. This surety, this full confidence in, I believe in Jesus. I've been saved from my sins and I am going to heaven one day.
You know, that's a source of anxiety for a lot of people. That's a source of a lot of mental turmoil for people. Kind of this stress over what does the life beyond hold for me. Yes. And as you guys are listening to the show today, we want to ask you that exact same question.
What do you believe about what happens after you die? We want to hear from you. 866-34TRUTH. That's 866-348-784. We're going to take your calls all through this next hour.
And we want to hear, what did you hear growing up? What did you believe? You know, how have your beliefs about heaven and about salvation changed as you've continued to mature in your spiritual walk? Yeah, we want you to ask questions as well. Yeah.
This is a place where you can call in and ask questions. It's not every day that you get to talk to someone like Dr. Shah, who is both a pastor and a scholar. It's a unique combination in people, and you get the chance to talk to him today.
So, make sure you call into the Truth Talk show and talk to us. Dr. Xiao, you mentioned that there are many theories on salvation. I think when it comes to salvation, how do I get to heaven? How do I get to God?
There are as many theories out there as you could possibly imagine. Yes, and some of them have merit. I mean, the Bible does talk about them, and they are truly part of what salvation is about, but they are not the very heartbeat of salvation.
So, I want to. you know, start us off why by Going over a couple of them, but there are like as many as seven, okay, or six. And the seventh one, I would say, is to me exactly what salvation at its core is all about.
So One theory or one approach to salvation is that Jesus died on the cross for my sins. Or he died on the cross. Let's just stop there. Died on the cross. to destroy the work of Satan and Death.
True or false? And the answer is, yeah, that's true. He did down the cross to destroy the work of Satan. He did down the cross to take the sting out of death. But also false.
Yeah. If you think that's all. Really, salvation is about? Not if you study the Bible comprehensively, intricately, in its context from Genesis all the way to Revelation. More is happening.
Interesting.
So it's not that the idea is wrong, it's that it's incomplete. It's a woefully incomplete understanding. That's that we're trying to get at. Yeah, yeah. It does have a point.
Now, there will be some theories that we will talk about. In fact, the next one is that Jesus died on the cross. to pay Satan a ransom for us. He paid Satan? Right.
Yeah, I mean that that Implies that Satan is the one that owns us, right? He's buying us back from Satan. Yeah. Yeah, I would say, again, True and false. He said, what do you mean true and false?
Well, true that there is a ransom paid. Salvation, right? Redemption, apolotrosis, this is a Greek word, that has the idea of ransom paid. But the person to whom the ransom paid, Satan, oh, definitely. Falls, right?
This reminds me of those people who view God and Satan as just sort of like you're this is gonna date me, but you remember rock and sock and robots, the red and the blue. Like you press the buttons and they just kind of box each other, and might get the uppercut on the other one, and one might jab the other one. That's how they see God. He's like the two like dueling forces, and they're struggling for control. Yeah, we know good's yeah, like we know good's gonna win in the end, but it's more or less a good fight.
That's how people see it, right?
So, yes, there is truth in the fact that a ransom is paid, but there's a whole lot of false in the fact that. is being paid to Satan. Who who is the ransom being paid to? The God the Father. Right.
Yeah. And people hear that and they're like, wait a minute. Got God had to be paid the ransom for us? Yes, absolutely. In fact, when we get to the final one, hopefully we can get it done in time.
We will explain why the ransom had to be paid to God the Father. You know, I think it's funny that, you know, we're going through all of these. And a lot of people probably are like, you know, I actually thought that, but I never thought about it the way that you're saying it. In the case that I never thought that these views were. incorrect or incomplete.
It's just what I was taught. And I think so many of us Are taught an incomplete version of salvation. Why do you think that is?
Well, some of that is coming from an incomplete understanding of.
Sometimes and I hate to say that because I love pastors, but sometimes they were incompletely taught uh taught. Uh sometimes they went to schools or seminaries where a certain view of atonement was uh was uh promoted. And so they walked away thinking, well, that's what it is. All right. And so here's what we tell people: it's like, yes, if you learn that in seminary days, if you learn that in your favorite professor's classes, great, great.
We're not discounting them. but do your own research. Spend some time Studying the Bible.
Okay, get down to the nitty-gritty, get down to the Greek and Hebrew words, get down to theologians. Why did they believe what they believed? You know, what is their ulterior motive in proposing or propounding a certain theory? Why? And then you go, Okay, okay, I'm seeing something here.
I think that's so good and so helpful for people, especially those who are teaching, who are preaching, who are operating in sort of an instructional capacity. Because the temptation is to get to a certain point or a certain level of education and feel like, well, I've got it. I know it. I understand it. I understand the tenets of our faith.
Dr. Shaw, would you recommend some, maybe a course of action or some helps for people who are like, I really need to go deeper in my understanding of the Bible. I need to study more. How would you begin that process of studying the Bible more deeply? Oh, I mean, just if you want to go at the very basic level, I would begin with word study.
Just begin. And again, that is an incomplete level. I will tell you that. I'll be the first to tell you. That if all your theology and studying the Bible is on word study, you will be.
Greatly misled. Yeah. But it's a great place to begin. Absolutely. You know, I think a lot of the times we spend so much time thinking about the cross and worshiping the cross, worshiping Jesus for what he did on the cross.
We never think about what it was that he actually came to save us from. And I want to get to that in just a second, but we actually have a caller. Brandon from Virginia has a question about heaven.
So we want to cut to Brandon real quick. Brandon, you're on Truth Talk Live. Hey. Um, well, you know, I was thinking about my thoughts on heaven. Um, you know, between what I thought as a child and what I think now.
You know, as a child, you watch cartoons, Tom and Jerry, you see, you know, wings and hearts and all of those things. And that's what you imagine as a child until you get an understanding. But also, you know, in most things, as as you reach adulthood, you know more than you did as a kid. And, you know, really, I feel like I know less as far as heaven goes because I feel like as a believer I don't think there's any way I can imagine or begin to describe what we will see in heaven. Absolutely.
Brandon, stay right there. We're going to cut right back to you right after we take this break. Truth talks. You're listening to the Truth Network and TruthNetwork.com. Welcome back to today's episode of Truth Talk Live with your host, Dr.
Abadan Shah. Dr. Shah, we're talking about heaven. We're talking about what we believe about how to get there and what people maybe believe a little wrongly about how to get there. That's right.
When we went to the break, we were on the phone with Brandon from Virginia who had a question about heaven and salvation, talking about his understanding and how he's grown since then. Brandon, pick up where you left off right before we cut the break.
Well, you know, like I was saying as a kid, you you imagine the the harps, the angels flying around, all that, and then A little later in life, you start thinking, well, that's not it at all. That's not how it's going to be. And you start to think of. What? in your mind what you think God's Perfect.
um place for us is. And then I think the more I've matured, Over time, I realize the less and less I know about it because I don't think. humanly we can imagine what he's prepared for us. Absolutely. I mean, I wholeheartedly agree, Brandon, because.
You know, the more we grow as believers, the more we mature in our faith, in our understanding of the gospel, the more we realize God has some things prepared for us that our mind today cannot truly grasp. That's right. Sometimes people will ask me, you know, oh man, will this be in heaven or will that be in heaven? Will I miss this? Will I miss that?
And I, and I. I give them the answer that was given to me many years ago. Nothing you will get on the other side. When you get to heaven, we'll be like, oh, I so wish. Do you remember the time we used to, you know, we used to go fishing?
Through the family, God made so much.
Now, wow, good days back on earth, back before heaven. No one's ever going to say that. Yeah, you will be so amazed and full of glory and enjoyment and love and laughter and fellowship with God, with God's people, with family and friends in Christ that. It is beyond our imagination. Is trying to explain to a kid who never went.
Outside his, you know, his front yard, what a team park is all about. He's a no-spite a roller coaster to somebody's. Like, I promise you, he's really, really, really, really great. Yeah. Man, Brandon, thank you so much for calling.
Thank you, thank you, thank you. We've got another caller on the line, and I think this is the living legend himself, Mr. Stu Epperson Jr. Crazy. Hey guys, love the program.
Love the topic, man. I got a cool quote for you, Doc, and you could probably finish this. Yes, sir. It was either C.S. Lewis, whoever it was, said He said, There's three things that I know for sure about heaven.
First of all, there's three surprises. First of all, I'm going to be surprised. At who is there? Who is there? Second of all, I'm going to be surprised at who's not there.
And third of all, I'm going to be surprised that I'm there. Yes, yes. I mean, it is so, so, so true. Just uh. Just uh Amazement to walk in there.
You know, sometimes you walk in places and you go, wow, look at this, and you feel so out of place. Heaven will be like that for eternity. Not in the sense like I don't deserve to be here because, you know, Jesus paid with his blood, but it will be more of a just every single moment in amazement and joy. You know, it's a joy that's not going to be. That's not gonna leave us exhausted.
Have you ever been in a sit place where you're like, Oh, I just need a downtime. Heaven. Yeah, I got to, yeah, yeah, decompress. Heaven will be a place where you won't ask to be decompressed. That's right.
That's right. And you know, right now we're on the phone with one of the most evangelistic people I've ever met in my entire life. Yes. Mr. Eberson, if someone is listening right now and they're like, man, this sounds great.
I want to get to heaven. Just tell them real quick what they got to do.
Well, the the the only way to heaven is through the the only way to heaven. the way, the truth, and the life, Jesus Christ. That's right. And you know, he made he made a way when there was no way. He made a way when we were running.
The other way. And if you think you're going to heaven and you don't want Jesus, you don't want to walk with him and love him and touch him and be in fellowship with him, you really don't want heaven. You'll be miserable in heaven, right? Because heaven. is face to face with Christ.
And you know, and back to your original question about judgment and about the fear and all that, I'd love to recommend this book. I know you guys probably have it in your library at the church there at Clearview. It's called Transforming Grace by Jerry Bridges. And I love this book because it takes us off the performance treadmill. And it takes, and even heaven, so many Christians think that they've got to perform their way into heaven, even though they're already saved.
And in the very beginning of the book, just read the first part of the book. Bridges observes this. He says this. He says. He says we've con created a false construct in the church today.
that were saved Bye. Maze. We're justified by faith, but we're sanctified by works. And Bridges quickly corrects and says, no, we are justified. by faith and we're sanctified by faith.
And I would add, we're glorified by faith. It's all about what he did. It's, you know, the gospel is not what I've done for him, what I'm doing for him. I'm trying to get on the right God's good side. I had a good, I had a good God day today, so he's going to answer my prayer.
And I had a little bad God's day yesterday. I didn't read my Bible. No, it's about walking in his grace. Trusting him in by faith. Like 2:20 of Galatians, I live by the life I live now, I live by faith in the Son of God.
Who love me? And he gave himself for me, the just shall live by faith.
So I really believe that heaven is simply our faith becoming sight. I mean, is there anything more glorious than that? As opposed to this whole kind of debtor's grace, where I'm just living in fear as a Christian, I'm saved, but I don't even know where I stand with God.
Well, hold on a second. It's not based on where you stand. It's based on the standing of the righteous, perfect Son of God, right? Amen. Amen.
You know, earlier you said something in our conversation this morning. uh that sometimes even Protestants who will you know Just abhor the idea of a purgatory, but we have our own purgatory as well, where we feel like on the other side there will be some, you know, straightening out where God is going to fuss at us and get on to us and then say, All right.
Now that I've been time's over, y'all come on and come on. Y'all don't want to get right. And that's not true. From beginning to end, everything is by grace through faith. Amen.
Amen. Yeah, sure. You know, that's such a good point. You know, this is. This is how he got us in is: you know, he who began a good work in you will be faithful to complete it.
That's right. And instantly, some of our detractors are going to say, Well, hold on a second. It can't just be that easy. You gotta you gotta do, do, do, do, do. And the fact is, is it's not you gotta, it's you want to.
It's those good works are gonna flow. From his, where does obedience come from? Where do good deeds come from? They come from the only good one. who is in us, the Holy Spirit, which is why we live by faith.
So that he can produce supernatural things in our life, which is why we got to ask ourselves: am I walking in the Spirit? Galatians 5:16, am I trusting in him? And am I homesick for heaven? Every one of us needs to be a little bit homesick. Right.
This isn't where we're going to be hanging out forever, right? Right, that's right, man. And what better person to remind us of that than a walking-talking billboard for the joy of the Lord and the truth of God's word? Thank you so much for calling in today. We are grateful for you, we're grateful for your friendship, and uh, grateful that you called today.
That's right, Stu, thank you so much. I've got a couple more. Amen. Love you too. We got a couple more callers in the queue.
If you guys would just hold on one second, because I know we're about to take a break here in just a second. But, Dr. Shah, tell us why Jesus had to die in the first place. Why couldn't he have just forgiven our sins and that just be it?
Well, you know, we talked about the ransom that was paid. You know, our sin is a debt against God. And you say, well, I didn't do it. Adam and Eve did it, or somebody did it. Why do I get blamed for that?
But God is not blaming you for that. What God is saying is that I have sent my son. to pay the penalty of your sins. Of course. You didn't do it.
Fine, but you have been You have inherited this debt.
So come to my son. Receive his sacrifice on your behalf. And you can go free. You can now follow me. And so.
We're really paying that debt, or Christ is paying that debt to the Father. This plan was put together in the Trinity before time began. And what a great plan that is.
So sometimes people fail to understand. What salvation is really about. And there are a few more theories, but I know we need to talk to Billy. He's been waiting very patiently. Absolutely.
Billy from Henderson, North Carolina. You are on Truth Talk Live. How are you, my friend? Hey Billy, Truth Talk Live. Can you hear us?
Oh, okay, we're going to a break. Hey, Billy. Absolutely. Stay right where you are. We're going to take a quick break.
We're going to come back. We're going to talk to you a little bit about salvation, about heaven. It's going to be a great conversation. Thank you for listening to Truth Talk Live. We'll be right back.
Truth talks. You're listening to the Truth Network and TruthNetwork.com. Welcome back to Truth Fact Live with today's host, Dr. Abadan Shah. We're talking about heaven.
And before we went to a break, we began a great conversation with Billy from Henderson, North Carolina. Billy, let's pick up where we left off.
Okay. Hey Ryan, how are you doing? Good, my friend. It's good to hear from you. Yes.
Hey, you know, a little bit about your topic. When I was a kid, I grew up in a Christian home and we had, you know, Bible studies and story times at bed. And my vision of heaven was always about seeing Jesus Christ in the clouds with his arms stretched out, like bringing the sheep in and ha holding a little lamb. And it was always just something that was very peaceful in my mind as a kid. And I was saved in 1972 at the age of 10.
And then um My adult years, when my father got sick and I was able to spend four months with him during his time of being in hospice care. And it was then that he God really revealed what heaven was like.
So I decided to journal my father's final journey to his final resting place in heaven. And I videotaped and documented everything that he did, everything that he saw. And my father got a glimpse of heaven on five different occasions that I have documented. And what he described. He had talks with people who had died thirty, forty, fifty, even sixty years prior to his passing.
Uh-huh. He had, he saw our mother who passed away in May of 2020, almost two years to the day that my father passed away. He described what she was wearing. She was in white, had gold necklace and a gold belt. And that day was March the 31st, 2022.
And he also saw a little lamb on the ceiling of his room where he was being taken care of. And I asked him, what was the lamb saying? And he said the lamb was asking him or telling him it's time to come home. And this was on march thirty first.
Well, fast forward to may the seventh. I was in my father's room. It was about 10 p.m. And My father had gotten to the point he was so weak he couldn't feed himself, and we had to physically feed him. But he asked for this little grabber tool or device that you pick up trash off the ground with, like if you've ever done that alongside the highway.
And I got it for him. And this man started reaching for the ceiling and grabbing for things in the air.
Now I got this on video, guys, so it was amazing. And the caretakers came into the room and I just told them to be quiet. And they watched my dad. And then all of a sudden, he looked over at me and his eyes were big as fifty cent pieces. And I got up and I walked around on the bed on his left side.
And I said, What what is it? And he said there's blood on the ceiling. And I said, blood on the ceiling. And I looked up, and he pointed, he said, there's blood on the ceiling, it's dripping down on me. And I said, whose blood is it, Dad?
And he said, it's the blood of Jesus Christ. He's. Telling me it's okay that I'm going to make it to heaven. And my dad had reoccurring dreams during this time over the four months. Of walking on the edge, a straight line, and on one side it was just a black, dark hole, and on the other side it was solid ground.
And the battle that I saw and witnessed firsthand of the enemy. And Christ Fighting for my dad's soul in those last several days and weeks was unbelievable, guys. It was amazing. Yeah. That reminds me of something, Dr.
Taudi, you shared with us: that our loved ones are not so far away. That's really a thin veil. That's right. That's right. And what I want to focus on.
Is what is it that Jesus did for us? You know, since Billy brought up the idea of the blood, well, he made propitiation by his blood. That's a word we don't use much more. We don't use that word much anymore, but that word propitiation really means. Jesus took my penalty of sin.
By shedding his blood to satisfy God's wrath against us. That's right. That's what he did.
So I appreciate him sharing that because. If your Christianity is bloodless, okay? Because that's what's happening. There are people who will have taken out. Hymns and songs and worship songs that bring up the blood of Christ, and they feel like that's too gross.
That we're living in this 21st century, that we don't need to talk about the blood of Christ, man. You take out the blood, and we do not have the gospel. That's right. You know, we'll wear a cross around our neck, we'll put them all over churches, we'll sing about the cross. But, you know, in the first century, like nobody would have thought that the cross as this beautiful Christian emblem.
And I think it's really great how this thing that they knew was so important over time has just become symbolic to us without us really understanding the gravity of what it had to represent and what's right. Took place.
So I really appreciate Billy's testimony there. Thank you, brother, for sharing that because you know, and I know you have those precious memories of your father that will always remain with you. That's right. And but the best part of it is they were based on Christ and His sacrifice for us on the cross. That's right.
We've got Thomas from Henderson, North Carolina. Thomas, you are on Truth Talk Live. How are you, sir? Yeah, can you hear me? Yeah, man, I can't.
How are you? I'm doing great. How are you doing? Doing well. We're talking salvation.
We're talking heaven. The hope that we have in Jesus Christ. That's awesome. That's awesome, yeah.
So what is your question? What did you want to add today? Oh, yeah. Um I was just gonna ask about like what is heaven really like? You know, like You kinda hear like um how heaven is just like a place in the clouds where you kind of play harps and you're all dressed in white.
But I was just trying to see like what scripture has to say about what heaven is like and what that salvation is like in heaven. Um, that's kind of my my question. That's a vast big question, Thomas. But thank you for sharing that. I mean, there's just so much we can talk about.
That would require an entire series of shows. But I will say this much: you know, when the angels were talking to the disciples as Jesus was taken up before them. They had spent those 40-sung days with him. They had touched him. They had felt him.
He had eaten food before them. And yet his body was glorified, something very different, right? It was like him, but yet it was a glorified body. And then the angel said something to them. The same Jesus that you have seen going up.
is the one who's coming back down. Which means that we're not going to go in some Some ether up there, or be merged into some vast nothingness. We are going to a real place where real people will live. This is the new heaven. Heavens and the new earth.
Okay, things beyond our understanding that God has prepared for us.
So, don't think of it as just clouds, right? This is going to be real heaven, real earth. That's right. And God is preparing this place.
Someone said it this way. It took him six days to create the first heavens and the earth. He's been working on this one for about six, seven thousand. Wow. I had never considered that.
That's a great point. That is a great point. Thomas, thank you for calling, man. We also have Jimmy from Henderson, North Carolina. Jimmy, you are on Truth Talk Live.
How are you doing, my friend? I'm doing great. I'm doing great. adding to this um you know, when you when you're in your youth, you have a vision that people tell you, you know, that you that you see and you see the you know islands or paradise or what what we can refer to as gold, streets of gold and things like that. You know, they're painting a picture for you of what where you're going to be in a wonderful place.
And when you hear uh people say there's heaven here on earth, You know that means, you know, a a lot that, you know, you go to those uh beaches with s sand and tropical fruit and, you know, warm climate and your stomach is full and you don't have And and as you as you get older, you you start to me, you know, you start In your youth, you You kinda um You don't realize Mm.
Okay. So you're going out here and every day we're sinning and every day we're doing things that we shouldn't do and things. And then as you become older and you get to be an adult. you you you get agnostic about What Is this place called heaven? Is there really a heaven?
And you're doubting things, and you end up being like. Thomas. know doubting calmness absolutely and i think you have to be shown you have to be shown what what you know you know you're you're of the oklahoma the show me state you know that's what you want to be start to appreciate i think your life on earth even more dr shaw you start to appreciate why god has put you here for a purpose absolutely yeah right absolutely and i think going you know and that comes along with your your wisdom and and your wisdom in in being in the Bible or being around people that will teach you what they know and what they have spent their life doing like Dr. Shaw. And and if you listen to what they say and you listen to what experts in the field and and theology are, then you learn and you learn, and that's where you grow as a Christian.
Um I think um Yeah, I think I think that um When you when you look, we just Some of his um, things were like in Ephesians. You know, and and he explained it um about heavenly places. And those things to me heavenly places, we can make heaven here on earth. But Showing God's love. And and trying to make Where we are now.
as as good as we can be. And and you know, don't wait. to get to having to be a better person. you know be that person That you want to be here on earth. Absolutely.
You know, I and I really appreciate what you said, that you made a distinction between heaven and heavenly places. Yes, there is new heavens and new earth coming. But in the meantime... Make this a heavenly place. That's right.
Knowing that in the end, it's all going to go downhill. It's going to happen until Jesus comes. But we as Christians, Should be the salt of the earth. We, as believers, should be the light of the world to make this a heavenly place until. We go into the new heavens and new earth.
And I think that's exactly what you're saying, Jimmy. And I couldn't agree more with that. That's right. Jimmy, thank you so much for calling. We've got Bucksman from Dayton, Ohio on the line as well.
Buxman, how are you, sir? How are you guys? It's great to hear you both love this topic. Heaven for me fellas is Where I put my anchor. When I'm going through trials and tribulations here on the earth.
I'm in. But listen, we're going to take a quick break. I don't want to cut you off, my friend. We're going to take a quick break. We're going to be right back, so stay right where you are, okay?
Truth talks. You're listening to the Truth Network and TruthNetwork.com. Welcome back to Truth Talk Live. We're on the phone with Buxman from Dayton, Ohio. Buxman, we're talking the salvation of Jesus Christ, the blood that was paid for us, and the eventual paradise that we're going to spend with him in all of eternity.
I'm sorry you got cut off before we had to go to break. If you would please continue, my friend. Oh, you're fine, no. Yeah, if if it wasn't for Christ, the wrath of God would still be upon us. And there's a peculiar verse.
that I want to throw out to gentlemen. John three thirty six, it's twenty verses past. The famous John 3:16, where he's talking to Nicodemus. And Jesus makes a very strong claim to Nicodemus. He says, But if you do not obey me...
The wrath of God is still upon you.
So when I think in terms of heaven, that is the grappling hook Point that I throw from mortality into immortality, saying, Busk. Be Jesus. Obey Jesus. Here's Just keep pulling on that rope to get you through these trials and tribulations because where that grappling hook is connected to. Is the heavenlies?
Is all the things wonderful? The things post. you know, the pain and the tribulation that the earth uh requires of us Uh as mortals.
So, for me, gentlemen, I love the fact that Jesus has given us. a persona to emulate. Can we be him? No. We cannot work our way to heaven.
And if anybody ever tries to tell you that, they are lying to you. We cannot reproduce what Christ did on that cross for us. We can't. Only the Son of God was able to do that, which then appeased the wrath of God. And that I heard that not some phrases not getting spoken of in today's churches much.
We don't hear much about the wrath of God that Jesus' blood has covered. For us, have we? I mean, we don't realize that God is an all-consuming fire. We hear so much that He's Yes.
Well, it's interesting that you bring that up because on yesterday's episode of Clearview Today, we were talking about that, about how the obedience of God, of course, it's not that I do, I live the Christian life perfectly, therefore I'm going to heaven. And yet in God's judgment, he does take how we live this life into account. What does your obedience actually look like? Yeah. You know, it was something great we talked about yesterday.
Absolutely. Yeah. And the life we live now, and again, this is just the way you're saying it. Jesus said, in this world you will have Tribulation, but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world. That's right.
When you and I are in Christ. You know, when we are in Christ, because Paul talks about being in Christ. Uh uh You know, Christ is in me. Praise God. Colossians talks about that.
Christ in you, the hope of glory, which is a very biblical doctrine. But then there are Plenty of passages about being in Christ. Means I am in him. And And when I am in him. Through him, I can overcome this world.
That's right. Amen. Through him, I can face no matter what comes, whether it is physical problems of life, sicknesses, or you go, man, how am I going to get over this? And God either heals in this life or in the life to come. But you're able to overcome that.
That's right. Relationship struggles, financial problems, spiritual struggles that you go through. Oh, persecution, absolutely. It's being in Christ. Christianity is Christ.
That's right. You know, it's not just He is over there and I'm over here. No, I am in Him. That's right. That life of Christ made real in the believer, and then eventually that hope for glory, that hope for seeing Christ face to face.
Bucksman, I appreciate you calling so much. We got time for one more caller today, and that is Mike from Dayton, Ohio. Mike, you're on Truth Talk Live, my friend. How are you doing? Well, I'm doing great.
Thanks for taking my call. I know we're short on time, but Um Good. I I always thought heaven was going to be like the fruits of the Spirit. Um people around you are gonna lo be loving, joy, peace. Patient, kindness, goodness, let me think, faithfulness.
Good gentleness and self-control, right? And you got them. Yeah, and I just really believe that we're all going to have those fruits of the Spirit when we're up there, and we're all going to be loving one another. and uh taking care of one another. And um Because I feel that up in heaven, we're going to be working for God and doing things for Him.
Amen. Because we want to be with him. And by doing those things, we're going to sow these fruits of the Spirit. To me. That is where if you can just look forward to that, I think you're.
You want to be saved, you know?
So, um Yeah. We're warped, we're tainted in our relationships here on earth by sin. But, Dr. Shaw, what will our relationships with each other look like in heaven?
Well, one thing I like what Mike said there, that we'll be working for him. We think heaven is a place where it's just nothing. We're gonna lounge. Just cloudy. We're gonna 25,000 choruses of amazing grace over and over and over again.
And then we go eat and then we go sing some more. But to the contrary, I mean, we're serving and we're doing things, but this is not the serving and doing which has been tainted because of sin. That's right. You know, when God's judgment fell upon Adam and Eve. By the sweat of your brow, that you will eat of the bread.
That comes from the ground. There's no longer that pain, that reluctance to work. It is a joy to serve God, to do things, to create, to be with him and with God's people. And I love the way he said it, the fruit of the Spirit, right? Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.
Imagine being inundated all around you and you're living because the Holy Spirit is with you. That's right. Imagine not having to think about it and having to be like, okay, I need to be patient today. I need to try to do this in my own power and then getting disappointed day after day. But God's presence, the Holy Spirit, just like you said.
Yes, and in this life, it is the fruit of the Spirit. It's not something you work towards. Right. Because if you have to work towards, then it's no longer a fruit. That's right.
When the conditions are right, the tree will bear fruit. In this life, when the conditions are right. The Holy Spirit will bear the fruit in your life. That's right. On the other side, the conditions will be right.
That's right. Mike, thank you so much for calling to talk live. You're welcome. Yeah, I think we need to renew our mind here on Earth so then that way. Um, we can have those fruits of our spirit, you know.
So, amen, absolutely, amen. Absolutely, thank you. Thank you, thank you, Dr. Show. We got a few minutes left in the show.
There's someone out there listening to this right now, and they're saying, you know, this heaven play sounds really great, but I don't know. If I've ever truly accepted Christ, I grew up in the church. I've heard this story before, but I don't know if I've ever made that decision. Yeah, operating on I hope I go to heaven one day. Yeah, you know, and we've been going through those theories that people have, and we've seen that there is a truth in all of them, but there's also a missing element.
There's something incomplete about them. Let me rattle off a couple more.
Some people believe that Jesus gave his life so that. Or he died on the cross to do what Adam failed to do. And it's like, yes, that is a truth. There is truth there that he became the new Adam for us, but that's not the whole culmination of that of salvation. Right.
Or set an example for us to follow, which we sort of dismissed a few moments ago, that no one can truly follow that example. or to unite us in his death. To unite us in his death. Yeah, what a great truth. Our identification with Christ, great truth.
All these theories are great. But at the end of the day, if you say, What is the heart of our salvation? is that Jesus. Gave his life to satisfy God by paying for our sins. His wrath was against us.
But in his love he sent His son, To die for our sins, to satisfy his holiness, so that we could go free. Not just go free, but so that we could be once again in touch with him. Amen. And so How do you receive Christ as your Savior? Right where you are.
Maybe you're driving down the road. Maybe you are at work. Mm-hmm. and you're listening to this broadcast. As Jesus To come into your life.
He is God's only way of salvation. There is no second way. There is no alternate plan. God sent His Son, as promised, as prophesied, to die on your behalf. Ask him to save you.
It's a simple prayer, Jesus, come into my life. forgive me of my sins, and take over. And I will follow you the rest of my life. As you help me. And if you prayed that, on the authority of God's word, you are his child.
Right? We have been adopted into the family of God. That's what Jesus said in John chapter 1. That's what Paul says in Ephesians 1, pre-appointed to adoption. And so you are part of the family of God.
Thank him for saving you. Find a Bible-believing church. Find a church where the Word of God is proclaimed. A place where Jesus is glorified and get around other believers. Share with them.
Share with them what God has done in your life. Share with your family if they're saved. Tell them. That's right. Man, I got saved.
That's right. And if you prayed that prayer today, here's what I want you to do. I want you to text the word today, T-O-D-A-Y to 252-429-6069. It's going to connect you directly with us. And we're going to get you started with some resources.
Some of them are going to be some of Dr. Shah's books.
Some of them are going to be some shows here on the Truth Network. But what we want to do is help you take the next steps. You just prayed the most important prayer of your entire life. And so you're going to need some guidance. And thankfully, Clearview Church Truth Network has great, great resources for you to be able to take those next steps.
That's right. It's one of the most wonderful things about doing something like this, whether it's the Clear Veed Today show or being able to talk to people like this on Truth Talk Live, is knowing that the power of the word of God is impacting people's lives, seeing lives change, seeing eternities rewritten because of the gospel, because of what Christ has done for us. It puts the perspective where it needs to be on the world around us. That's right. We've talked a lot about heaven today, but heaven is not just some cartoon place that we're going to go one day.
It's not just a place. Where now that I'm dead, my life on earth is over, now I get to just relax for all of eternity. It is something so much more wonderful. And there's only one way. There's only one way.
Dr. Shah, just let us in that prayer. But if you're someone in your life who you know hasn't accepted Christ, who has not received the gospel, today is your day. You can send them this episode, and it's going to be a wonderful, wonderful way that you can evangelize to them. Thank you so much for listening to Truth Talk Live.
Again, that number is 866-348-7884. We'll see you next time. Truth talks. Bye.
