This is the Truth Network. There's no perspective on current events in our world quite like the perspective of a chancellor of a Christian university. And I'm talking to one right now, and he's not just been a chancellor of this school for some time. He was president of the school one time. He's also been a mentor to me and a close friend of our families for years, Dr.
Bob Jones III. Front and center to our conversation, in fact, right when I walked into your office, was the passing of Lindsey Graham. Which These politicians, right when I said that name, someone got mad, right? Or someone said, Oh, I love that guy, or someone said, Oh, he would, you know, he waffled on this and that, and I didn't vote for my bill. But can you talk a little bit about?
The impact he had on your life. I think you were friends. You're in South Carolina, Bob Jones University, Dr. Bob III. Lindsey Graham was a friend of religious liberty and other things.
Can you speak a little bit about his life and his legacy? And I want to talk to you about some other things, crazy things going on in the culture as well. But let me pull this chair up. Dr. Bob, Lindsey Graham.
Speak about his legacy as a lot of folks are, even on the left and the right, a lot of folks are just kind of memorializing him right now.
Well, for one thing, uh, Stew, you can tell a lot about a man when you figure out who is enemies are. He was hated. by the political liberals. Uh by the um The people who wanted to surrender the strength of our military to a one-world United Nations. Control.
He loved this country. He was a retired colonel. I believe in the Air Force. He served in battlefields. And he loved America.
I mean, whatever else you may think about Lindsey Graham, you got to admit. America was first. and he spent his life day and night travelling the world, trying to let people know the greatness of this God-given nation. And He uh was a personal friend. Um Being a South Carolinian and close to where he grew up, in a little town called Central South Carolina, about 20 miles from here.
A very hard upbringing. His parents were impoverished. They tried to make a living of running a bar and a pool hall, and the family lived in a back room uh attached to it.
Somewhere along the way, he came to know Christ. In spite of all the influences that were prevalent in his boyhood.
Well Lindsey Graham rose through the ranks. in the Senate. to one of the most conservative, dependable, Voices For conservative Politics. He told me on numerous occasions when our paths would cross, he said, Hey, I just got off the phone midnight last night with the president, and we talked about such and such and such. And he probably had more conversations.
with the President, our current President Trump, than anybody else. He played golf with him every weekend, and they were just friends because they didn't always agree on everything. But Trump uh really depended on his counsel. He had his ear. He had Trump's ear.
At the same time he had the ear of the common man. He was the most downhome guy you ever met. The greatest sense of humor, I'm telling you. You couldn't have a five-minute conversation without weeping with tears of hilarity. It just oozed out of him.
It wasn't planned. It was just something he did. A great asset to him as a politician. And uh Oh, in the last two years our paths crossed frequently. He would come to this state.
a conservative group in this state would call preachers together. We'd go here, Lindsay, and he would share with us what he had just come away from talking to Netanyahu about. In fact, when he died, he had just returned the night before. From uh A long conversation, several days of conversation. uh in the Ukraine about uh Trying to impose uh certain uh Restrictions upon Russia that would make it more difficult for them to bring this harm to Ukraine.
Anyway, um It was a sudden heart issue that took him. But in the days that have transpired this a few days of this week. He has uh had uh accolades from His colleagues across the aisle in the Democratic Party, whether they liked him or not, and many of them did not, they respected the man. Because he was a consistent, fervent, convictioned conservative. And The man Was not always understood in South Carolina by even some of my Christian friends.
Because he was a master when it was Enabling him to accomplish his goals to strike a deal with somebody from the Democratic side. And there are some conservatives who believe you don't speak to these people, that you don't work together. That if you do that, you've sold out to them. He never sold out to them. But he got a lot of help.
From them in getting his objectives across. I'll give you one example. I heard him about two years ago talking about he made many trips, many, many trips. To Israel and to Saudi Arabia. He was a friend of the prince, he was a friend of Netanyahu.
Okay. And he'd come back and he would tell us Uh that Just before the October event where Hamas kill those twelve hundred uh Jewish people down there in the south. Of Israel, and the whole war against Hamas took place. That killed the deal that he believed was about to happen. to bring Saudi Arabia and Israel to an alliance.
that would agree to help one another in the event either was attacked. He spent multiple trips trying to make that happen. Yeah.
So he t I I remember hearing him say, you know, If we don't get this done before Biden. Surrenders his seat, his presidency to Trump. We've got to get some Democrat support for it. in order to get this thing passed.
So he said, there are people going to be mad at me for working with these Democrats, but I need these votes to get this very strategic and important alliance formed.
Okay, that's good strategy. That's not a sellout to anything. He had an objective that he needed some help.
So Because he did things like that, people really regaled against him. Let me tell you one quick thing.
Some years ago, I was in the 1990s, early 1990s. Bill Clinton had an immoral relationship with an intern girl on his staff. It was a scandal, a terrible blight. And uh it it it t dominated the headlines for weeks.
Well There was an effort made in the in the U.S. Congress and in the Senate. To get together and foster a move to impeach Bill Clinton for his gross immorality. And that was led by a man named Asa Hutchinson from. Arkansas in the House.
Asa happened to be a Bob Jones University graduate in the Congress at the time. and by Lindsey Graham. in the Senate, the two of them together in each house. spearheaded this effort to impeach Bill Clinton. When I heard about it I was so proud of them.
And I got hold of them and said, listen, Like to have you guys both come on commencement day here at BJU's graduation. We want to give you an honorary degree for trying to impeach Bill Clinton. Wow.
So so they came and it was you know, we we but he's the kind of guy that If he believed in something, he would believe it heartily. And he was a great friend of the university and a great personal friend. And this country is going to miss him greatly. That's the voice of Dr. Bob Jones III, the Chancellor of Bob Jones University, the grandson of the founder of Bob Jones University, Dr.
Bob Jones Sr. Dr. Bob. Real quick, we don't have a lot of time left in this segment, but will you speak real quickly to, you know, folks are like, well, he's talking about a politician.
Well, how could he be friends with a senator?
Well, You've always been one of I believe uh the the wise Christian leaders Out there to talk about, you know, you know, everyone says, don't talk about religion, don't talk about politics. But at Bob Jones, just because you support A candidate who does the right thing for life, for marriage, for religious freedom. It doesn't mean you agree with them doctrinally. Like, there's a line you've always been able to draw. Speak to that and speak to people out there that, I mean, there's this rampant.
A rise of socialism. Communism. This young generation doesn't even understand. And your school, Bob Jones University, has held firm to doctrine. Y'all are strong on that.
But when you speak to people out there about the importance of, you know, The line between religion and politics, but the importance of believers engaging in politics without compromising their doctrine. Just talk about how important that is and give our listeners as we get out here a challenge with that because we just commemorated a man who's getting magnanimous accolades from all parties, Lindsey Graham. But speak to that to the Christian voter out there, Dr. Bob. Well, Stu, you've gotten into a big subject.
Let me try to be focused here, laser focused for just a minute. We believers are citizens of two kingdoms. The heavenly kingdom and this temporary earthly kingdom Where we are pilgrims. And if we ever forget that we are pilgrims, we are going to join with the world in ways that would betray the Lord Jesus. The Lord Jesus said, render to Caesar what is Caesar's.
That's government. and to God what is God's?
So we have two obligations.
Now If we are going to enjoy the freedoms that we so greatly need? We're going to have to be letting our voice be heard in the public arena. For the truth that we know is biblical truth. the princi the principles of the Word of God if they are practised, will govern for the better, The unsaved man, as well as the saved man. It won't have anything to do with getting him into heaven.
But as far as this world is concerned Those principles of the Word of God are universal principles, and they'll work for the saved and the unsaved. And I think the Lord expects us when He said, give Caesar what is Caesar's. If Caesar wants us in the military and says you have to volunteer to come or you'll be conscripted to come, we give Caesar we give him taxes that he says he anything he wants he can have except what God has already said in his word belongs to God. And when we s have to come to that place. where we would betray the Lord Jesus.
If we got into something like a requirement that. you affirm uh your belief in transgenderism. or homosexuality. Or wokeism, or these horrible things that are coming along. Or if they said, you have to pledge your allegiance to Allah.
And boy, there's a thing that's coming down the pike that's scary in America. But anyway. We give to God what is God's. And we get our heads cut off, we go to jail, whatever has to happen. Because we have a prior allegiance, a premier allegiance to Jesus Christ.
So. I'm all for citizens of the kingdom of heaven. exercising their duties, To inform the citizens of this world what God thinks about these abominable ideologies that are being taught in the colleges and the elementary and high schools, the workism. And all of the garbage that is so foreign to the Word of God, the murder of babies and all of this, you can't believe the Lord Jesus and approve of those things.
So you raise your voice. And whatever happens, happens. But I think that we're speaking up for the Lord when we, as U.S. citizens and Christians, Point out how ungodly these things are. And I think it's ungodly.
for a true born again believer in Christ to stay in a party whose platform includes approval. of the murder of babies the confusion of the sexes, The perversions of of of uh sex sexual uh perversions. And you stay there and you vote for those people whose party, whose platform, Is an abomination to God. I would not want to stand before God. and be a part of that.
and having cast my vote, to put some anti-god platform before the American cup public. And so I'm against Christian nationalism. I do not believe in it. I do not believe that God has called us to Christianize America. but he has also called us to speak the truth as citizens with our rights being exercised in so doing, And if we keep our mouth shut, we are part of all the degradation.
That is coming down from the other side and and trying to they're trying to put it into America's DNA. And if we don't open our mouth and appoint our our and apply our voices To proclaiming the truth about what God thinks about these things. Then we don't deserve to have the freedoms as Christians to have our church doors stay open and our families free of government control. And Dr. Bob on the flip side of that.
For believers that say, well, I don't want to vote for that, that party or that candidate who's clearly against the values of God and the principles of our founders. But We're all isn't it also true that by voting for the pro-life candidate, We're not necessarily calling that candidate a Christian. We're not calling that candidate a born-again You know, solid man of God. It's just it's really voting more policy than it is voting for the person because there's a lot of pretty rogue, roughneck. Candidates on the right.
Who far more align with values, but they're not Christians. But sometimes people say, well, you're just calling them a Christian, but that's not necessarily true, right? Yeah, an unbeliever can have his head screwed on, right? And can stand for right things that I, as a believer, stand for. But if I vote for him, I'm not voting for his faith.
I'm not voting for the church he attends. I'm voting for the principles that he believes that I also believe. And I want to see. Preserved for him and for me as a believer.
So there is no compromise whatsoever in voting for an unbeliever who stands for the things we believe in. And people on the right and the left will use a lot of religious rhetoric to try to seduce us into supporting them. You think about Barack Obama wanting to get elected. He goes to Rick Warren's church and he says, Marriage is always between a man and a woman.
Well, not too many weeks after that. he conveniently changed his whole view. And ushered in some of the most anti-marriage legislation in history as a president. But he talked about being a good Christian. He talked about all that, Dr.
Bob. Can you speak to the importance of in schools like Bob Jones University, you're equipping people, students, to have a little bit of discernment. It's a biblical discernment. It's kind of having your eyes wide open, but seeing through the lens of Scripture and through the lens of truth. Yes.
The devil is an angel of light. If we met him on the street, we wouldn't recognize him. He would look so so beguiling, so appealing, so winsome. The the truth is that There are preachers and pulpits. There are people in in the in the schools There are people in political life who are wolves in sheep's clothing.
They talk a great talk But we've got to listen, we've got to look at what they do. And the devil is a deceiver. And the Bible said, Christ said in in Matthew 2, Uh it's chapter 8. In John chapter 8, he said he's a deceiver, he's a liar from the beginning. And uh and uh he's a liar and a murderer.
So, the devil is a deceiver and a liar, and there are plenty of people who are really good at lying. and doing the devil's work.
So we need to be discerning with our eyes, spiritual eyes open. Dr. Bob Jones III, I'm in his office. Stu Everson here, Truth Doc. Thank you to all of our wonderful affiliates for carrying this show, our listeners.
Dr. Bob. you are part of multi generations who've held fast to the truth. of God's Word being the supreme authority. that we are under the authority of God's word at your school, Bob Jones University.
You and you make it clear too: like, if you have a politician in to speak to your students, you're not endorsing that person's theology or religion, but you're you know, you're giving a platform to important values and things like that. And you've always made that discerning, you know, that you know, there's that line that you very well articulated earlier in this conversation. And I hope people will listen to this whole conversation. I'll make it a podcast so folks can hear it again, Dr. Bob.
Legacy. What is your passion for legacy? Let me ask you this. I've always wanted to ask you this, and I'm putting you on the spot a little bit. How do you want to be remembered?
What is it that you want your legacy to be known for? You know, I've not given much thought to that, actually. but in a off the cuff answer to your question. A man who loved the Lord Jesus with all of his heart. who love the truth of his word.
Who would be willing to die to defend the authority and the integrity of the Word of God? And it's there's nothing about my life that is important. It is what you and I do will be forgotten, it will fade. But if we are not known as men of God, with Bible convictions. than we have done our families.
And those whose uh hearing, whose ears we have, listening to us. Uh It is the problem with the church today. One of the big problems is we become followers of men. And the church has gone askew. By following an articulate salesman type of people who talk about Jesus and have no knowledge of him whatsoever.
And and uh to be able to stand on the right side with the Lord Jesus, in every issue Because of the understanding we have about what is the right side. from what the Bible tells us is the right side. If there's anything I'd like to be known for as a man who tried to stand. on the Bible side Of every issue in my lifetime, the best I know how. Amen.
Dr. Bob III. Final question. Many, sadly, churches, you mentioned churches, even universities, have bowed their knee to bail. They've compromised.
They went from believing God created everything to some hybrid view to some rogue Darwinian evolution view, which, by the way, that really spawned racism. you know, and a lot of horrible things.
Socialism Gone woke, other things. Harvard, Yale, all these schools, if you look at their founding documents, founded for the spread of the gospel. You know, founded, teach young men and women the word of God.
Well, they're not doing that anymore, but your school is Bob Jones University, and there's a handful of other schools that have not yet bowed their knee to the culture and to the mores of the evil one. What's your word to young educators out there? What's your word to other Christian college presents who are feeling that pressure? Whether it's from some accreditation that wants them to compromise in order to get more money, or whether it's from parents saying, Why are you still teaching that? Or why are you still holding fast to those values?
What's your word to the young educators out there, Dr. Bob, of the good Christian schools? And maybe the rogue ones to get him back. What do you say to him, sir, as we get out of here? Avoid pragmatism at all costs.
You know, if we need more money. to build buildings, to pay salaries of teachers. to get more students. To become more prominent in our acceptance in the educational. greater ethos of the world.
There are too many churches, there's too many schools. Starting with Harvard, the very first Christians University. Um The the landscape of this country is littered with what you would call rogue Christian schools. They went bad. They went rotten.
They joined forces with unbelievers. Who uh Who scorn the Bible, who scorn Jesus Christ, who scorn the need of man to be sinners to be redeemed. Who elevate man to a godlikeness in their own way, to be qualified as your own God, which is what Satan told Adam and Eve to do. You shall be as gods. And to avoid pragmatism, because I don't think somebody sits down one day and says, Okay, I'm president of a Christian college.
How can I destroy this college? But they make decisions. Pragmatic. And little by little they keep rationalizing those that drift. Those little decisions to be more popular.
to get more money, to get more students. And so after a while it it is a A desire to uh uh achieve earthly success It is the success that is to be treasured above all other success. To be standing one day in the Lord's presence and have Him say, Well done, good and faithful servant, you tried to serve me. in a biblically sound manner. And my granddad, when he founded this college, he was an evangelist.
And he told my grandmother, That he was going to start a college, and he said, I've been traveling across America, churches all across America. And I found young people who are having their faith and their morals destroyed at college. He said, there ought to be a place that gives the best academics, the best culture. at the same time gives them a grounding in the Word of God that will teach them how to be Christian fathers and mothers. How to be Christian servants in all of life.
how to look at life from a Christian worldview. He said, I think God wants that kind of school. And he hired the educational brains to make it happen. And that's how this school started with 85 students in 1927. We're celebrating our centennial year starting this August and going through next May.
And I'm telling you, it is a hard battle. You have to be more important about God's approval than man's approval, or you'll never keep a school right with God. My favorite Dr. Bob, the third quote.
Now, I'm going to go back in your memory. You said this in chapel. and a young man who this who came to this school, our family helped bring him to Christ. He reminds this quote nearly every week I talk to him. And And the quote is The most tragic thing in the world today.
Do you remember that quote? That's right. Will you give us that quote about people dying and going to hell today? Just give us that quote, just for my friend Mark to hear this, because this is something that's really been heavy on his heart because there's still 3 billion people on our planet who've never heard the gospel. And we need to go.
We need to wake up. We need to pray up. We need to speak up.
So, what is the most tragic thing in the world today? Has it changed, Dr. Bob? The most tragic thing in the world today is that people. are dying and going to hell today.
Should it be?
