When Is It Right to Fight?

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So, the question of the day, and it's all over my IG. I'm posting right now: when is it right to? To fight. That's the question of the day. A pastor went to jail.

Recently in East Baton Rouge, Louisiana, man, only in Louisiana. You can't make this stuff up. I'm Stu Epperson, it's Truth Talk Live. And I'm asking you. What would you have done in this situation?

Okay, Stu, what are you talking about? It's funny, the last three people I've talked to didn't even know this. was going on. But it's going on. And it's all over the news.

It's been all over YouTube. I can't even, I don't like watching it. I just, it's just violent. But. Here's kind of the short version, okay?

Mm-hmm. For those of you who haven't seen it, and just to refresh those of you who have. And they're going to ask you the question: what would you do? How would you respond? What would Jesus do?

What would your pastor do? If there had been a Long history.

some for some time now. This Young man. had been screaming out profanities, and awful things across the street to the pastor. doing some pretty rough gestures. Threatening the pastures family.

And one day the pastor was out working on the bus. And this man Young man I believe in his twenties. Was yelling out horrible expletives and other things, saying, Basically, I'm gonna murder your family. I'm gonna do these horrible things to your children, your grandchildren. When you're out of town, I'm gonna go over and do all these terrible things to them.

The pastor loses it. crosses the street. It starts coming on toward the guy. Like he like he's gonna attack him and before he's you know Yanks a punch at him. The guy swings at him.

And so the pastor. And the guy getting this tussle, and a fight breaks out, and the passer just really kind of beats him up, kind of beats the tar out of him. And the police are called. The police come, they take him, they charge him with secondary battery, spent several hours in jail before posting bond. and before being released.

So This is a neighbor. that apparently had been been up to this for some time. And The victim's father. uh says that his son required five stitches to the chin. Apparently there'd been a long time feud.

What would you do? If you were in a situation like this, what would you do if you're a pastor? Was the pastor justified? To attack and beat this guy up who had been saying horrible things openly and for a period of time against his family. The number is toll-free 866-348-7884.

I have an example of something similar to this from 100 years ago. That Dr. Date, the word Carson shared with me. I don't know how he comes up with this stuff. But this is real, and this happened.

And so the title, When is the Right to Fight? What about is it ever okay for a Christian to resort to violence? Because then I've seen some pushback. from some other pastors who have said this is Opposite of what Jesus taught. in the Sermon on the Mount.

in the great commandment to love your neighbor as yourself. If you're If your enemy What is it if he if he wrongs you or offends you? You're to turn the other cheek. You're to do good for evil, return good for evil. You are to love your enemies.

You're to pursue those. uh in grace who have aught against you. And that's not what happened here. I mean, this pastor went to town to this guy. And of course, another person commented: Well, you know, this kid probably never got whippings, you know, growing up from his dad.

He got one big fat whipping from the pastor. And got put in his place.

So there's a little bit of righteous indignation going on. There's a little bit of folks saying, hey, this is a just cause to fight for. There's a little bit of justification happening. But then there are other pastors who said, this just isn't the gospel. This isn't Jesus.

Why didn't Pastor Tony spell Come out and say, hey, man. Uh Here's a cold bottle of water in Jesus' name. Hey, can I pray with you? Hey, what's really behind this rant, this upsettedness, this anger, this bitterness, this vitriol? What's going on here in your soul?

What have we done to bring this out? What can we do to pray for you? and encourage you. That sort of thing.

So that's what. I'm hearing. From those who disagree with the pastor's You know, having this meltdown moment and attacking this guy. But Then the immediate pushback from the other side is, well, you weren't there. you weren't hearing these these diatribes and these attacks for all this time that built up.

You maybe they did try some of that. Maybe the church members tried some of that. And it didn't work. What do you do in the heat of the moment as a believer? When you're verbally assaulted and attacked that way, Do you strike out like this pastor did?

Who went to jail for it? Or Do you take it? Do you turn the other cheek? 86634 TRUTH. Eight six six three four eight seven 884.

Would love to hear from you on this topic. I'm struggling with it myself. I've got some great truth on the streets, asking some people out there kind of how they would have handled it. And I'll read more about this story. You know, as we go along.

And kind of how this all came down. It actually happened. On June 23rd, 2026, so not too far, not too long ago, just like a couple of days ago or so from the day of this broadcast, although we play these broadcasts at different times and whatnot. 86634 Truth Doctor Date the word Carson. His wisdom.

Is much needed, especially in times like this. Dr. Carson. Has this ever even happened before? Have you heard of anything in the ministry like this that resonates?

Well, as soon as I heard about this event taking place, I immediately thought about Way back in uh 1926, and if you and I were not around. Um, Robbie Dillmore may have been around. He was probably in junior high or something in 1926, I was thinking. Yeah, yeah. Um.

Way back, there was a great pastor down in Fort Worth, Texas. Matter of fact, he pastored a church in Fort Worth and Detroit. Oh, wow. J. Frank Norris.

And this man was known as Mr. Fundamentalist. He preached against sin.

Well, he upset one of the guys in his church about his hard preaching against liquor. And the man was drinking, and he told the bartender, he said, I'm going to go over there and I'm going to kill that preacher. No kidding. And then he walked out of the bar. Headed to the preacher's office.

Martender called J. Frank Norris and said, You better get ready. This guy's coming over, and he says he's going to kill you.

Well, sure enough, he came in and he started screaming at him, I'm going to kill you. And Trey Norris tried to calm him down, but finally came to a point where he felt like he was being threatened.

So much of J. Frank Norris had a gun. And he took the gun and and he he shot him three times. And um end up killing him. He died on the way to the hospital, but he um J.

Frank Norris felt like he had to defend himself. He was arrested, and there was a trial. He was acquitted. But immediately, when I heard this story, I thought about here's J. Frank Norris, this great pastor of two churches highly revered, but found himself in a situation where He had to defend himself.

Now, it turned out the man did not have a weapon on him, but he was making such verbal threats. There came a point where J. Frank Norris felt like I've got to do something.

Now, This story again is happening in Louisiana. Wow, I don't know. It is that situation of you got to walk a mile in someone else's shoe before you can really understand. And I'm trying to seek first to understand before you seek to be understood. I want to know what the 20-year-old is thinking.

Why is he yelling that he wants to kill his family and rape his grandkids? Why would he be saying stuff like that? That's awful. What's going on in his life? And I was going to try to play some video.

I'm not going to play it because I can't screen out enough that horrible language. Dr. Carson, thanks for weighing in. We got Dan on the line. Sheila and Bob, you guys hang on.

We're going to come right to you when we come back. Wow, when is it right to fight? What about the pastor 100 years ago? What about this pastor? He went to jail for it.

Should he have turned the other cheek? What say you? 866-348-7884. Hang on.

So, the question all hour long today is: when is it right to fight? I actually picked up a call from a pastor earlier, and this is what he said.

Okay, I want to get that quote here. We've got a Caller on the line. Let me go to Dan because I do want to hear from him. A caller in Virginia, 866-34-TRUTH. Is the number toll-free 866-348-7884?

We have the topic front and center of this pastor spell in Louisiana. Going after this guy who was Cursing and saying vulgar things about his family, and we're asking the question. What would you do? What should your pastor do in this kind of situation? And I'm going to read some more things that the pastor actually said at his hearing and what he told his congregation.

But first, let's hear from Dan. Dan, thanks for calling in. Uh you betcha I think I I don't know the details of it. That's the first I've heard of it. But I I will say The the The word of God says, as much as lies in you, live at peace with all men.

Now, there are that you can't live at peace with. We can't. I mean, we can as far as it depends On us, but there are people out there now that are threatening this type of uh violence. And I mean just uh ungodly violence. I mean you Yeah, you see in other nations, you know, where Muslims are are are threatening violence and you know and I just think that it Okay.

A good Christian is going to bear it as long as possible. And I do think that also that a man has a responsibility He's a strong man of his home and a strong man to guard his family. And I don't know how long listening to you, this guy had been doing it for a while, and he'd been gradually getting worse and worse and worse. And I guess it gets to a point to where Any man, any man's man. that said that's enough.

And I I don't believe this pastor in his mind or in his heart that Well, God, I don't think he turned his back on God to walk across that road. I think he was. He talked to the Lord about it. He said, Lord, I'm trying to do, I'm trying to bear with this, I'm trying to bear with, but. Whatever this guy was saying, I mean, he hit the right buttons that got him because this was a godly man, evidently.

Yeah, it's a pastor. Yeah, it makes it really tough. And, Dan, I think you brought up a good point because I heard a lot of folks saying: hey, you're called to be protectors. Yeah. Yeah.

And also shepherd your little children and then and threaten your wife. And it it had gotten to the point where it was real threats and it was so bad, this guy said, I've got to do something because I if you let go too far, Then It's too late to do anything. Yeah. Now, here's what. Let me give you some more information.

And if someone wants to weigh in, maybe you agree with Dan. Maybe you take umbrage with it, what he's saying. But stay with me, Dan. I want to read this information to you. The toll-free number is 866-34.

Truth 866-348-7884.

So, what happened? On June 23rd, 2026, a young man who lives across the street from the church was standing on the shoulder of Hooper Road when he shouted an expletive at Pastor Spell. And what he shouted, apparently according to news sources, Were threats against the pastor, against his family. Pretty uh vulgar threats of of some pretty Gross things that he was planning on doing to the pastor's family and grandkids when the pastor was out of town.

So the pastor ran across the street, confronted him. Following an exchange of blows, Pastor Spell pinned the man to the ground and hit him repeatedly. The victim received cuts on his chin that required. uh stitches.

So the pastor's spells defense His legal team and him assert that this was a case of self-defense after enduring years of harassment. Apparently, this has been going on for some time. Spell claimed in a press conference that the victim yelled extreme threats, including promises to rape his wife and grandchildren and kill his family. Following his release, From the East Baton Rouge Parish Prison, Spell told his congregation, I laid hands on the sick, I fulfilled the scripture.

Okay, that's one way of using that scripture. That's a good one.

Okay.

Now, on the victim's side, the victim's family states the violent reaction was unprovoked outside of the shout of profanities. Local police chief James Salisbury. Publicly disputed spells claimed that the law enforcement failed to intervene and take prior complaints seriously.

So you have a law enforcement's perspective of that. Um Anyway, now past controversies.

Now, this is interesting. This goes deeper, and this could be what. Maybe held the law enforcement back a little bit or didn't help Spell's case. His church made headlines in 2020 for repeatedly holding large packed church services. in defiance of the COVID-19 gathering restrictions.

leading to multiple misdemeanours uh summons.

So anyway, so this church maybe wasn't I didn't have the best uh Standing with law enforcement prior to this altercation. And then the pastor says later, he says, Look, I have no comment, any further comment, but I will be in court September 15th, and I know the truth will come out.

So, no doubt we'll see this kind of played out. As the case plays out, But it does dance give give believers A chance to think now, how do we respond? Is this a godly way to respond? to such attacks? Is this anything new for believers?

to be berated and to be attacked, and you mentioned even The attacks in other countries that Muslims blatantly attack, burn down churches all over. It's happening all over Congo, it's happening all over. all over the Muslim world. where there's uh a merciless torture of of believers and and Christians for their faith. Do Christians defend themselves in that situation, or do they turn the other cheek?

I guess if every Christian defended themselves, there may not be as many martyrs. We might not have Fox's book of martyrs.

So. Maybe there's something to a believer suffering For righteousness' sake, but then where do you draw the line, Dan, between I want to suffer. In Christ's name, And turn the other cheek, but I also. M a steward, a shepherd, An apparent a protector of my family.

So Dan, that puts us on the horns of that dilemma right there. When is it right to fight? I think And and I I don't know the mind of that pastor. But it's If it was to me or to to that pastor? you could bear with it.

But when it starts coming after your little children or teen children, whatever, or coming after the wife who God has gave you and gave you the responsibility to look out for, when it gets down to the point of threats and threats getting worse and worse. And then you have a responsibility, and you can't help how the law looks at you because you're a Christian because they're ruled by a different set of rules than we as Christians are. But you still have that responsibility to I mean, if you can keep somebody from hurting your wife, that's your responsibility. You can keep somebody from hurting your daughter. that's your responsibility.

And if you fail in that, then You've uh I mean the the the the society would say, well, maybe he was a good pastor, but he should have watched out for his family.

So if being a Christian, he's not going to win either way. But But it makes it tough. But it's something we need to take to the Lord. We need to pray about that, you know, and whatnot. I want to read something else here, Dan.

Thanks for your call. We appreciate hearing from you. If you want to weigh in on this subject, the toll-free number is 866-34-TRUTH, 866-348-7884. Having a conversation about this incident with this pastor, one of my friends on Facebook basically said this: He said, the bluster and bravado. Of Pastor Punchalot's, he called him Pastor Punchalot, post-fight press conference is irreconcilable.

with New Testament Christianity. He bears the name of our Lord in vain. Like Jonah, he talks a mighty big game, says some theologically true things, but all the while. Sailing as far away from God as possible, I humbly admit, I've been there. Maybe that's why I'm so quick to recognize it.

I never want to be there again. God have mercy. To those who bristle, this is not a statement in support of a foul-mouthed neighbor. This is not a statement in support of letting people harm your family. This is not a political statement.

This is a statement about what true Christianity is: humble and repentant until the kingdom comes.

So Anyway, that's Bob from Facebook. I got another quote from someone on Elijah. Stay with me. You can call in and weigh in at 866-34-TRUTH-8634-87884. When is it right to fight?

Was the pastor justified in this? Or was it an ungodly example? And I got a truth on the streets from another pastor that may shock you when we come back. Stay tuned.

Okay, so You're a pastor. And what would you do if a guy was cursing you out and threatening to kill your family and stuff like that. You saw the footage of the pastor beating that guy up. What what would you have done, sir? Yeah, I think, you know, assault turns away wrath and.

I think it's easy for us as men, we are protectors of our family. That's one of our callings as a man. And we got to protect our flock.

So from my understanding, it was more than just someone attacking. His family, I believe.

Someone antagonizing the church that he shepherds.

However, we have to think Sermon on the Mount. We have to think about what Jesus has called us, how we're going to be a light, how we're going to reach people who, you know, are offended by the gospel. And I just think although our flesh always wants to react one way, and I'm an Irishman from Boston, and so I battle it daily. And so I'm certainly not trying to demonize. uh this pasture Responded the way he did, but I think the right thing would have been to just to show grace, show love, turn the other cheek.

And maybe you walk up to him and say, hey man, we've never prayed together. Can we just sit down and pray? What what can we do to serve just find a way to disarm them? Oh wow. Oh wow Okay, you heard that pastor.

I mean, he didn't hold any punches with his answer. And of course, hey, it's easy for me sitting behind a microphone in a nice air-conditioned studio. to almost prognosticate or Postulize some kind of theory of what I would have done had I been in that moment. But it's another thing if you're in the moment, and apparently, this pastor's spell in Louisiana. was out working on the church bus.

It's just a normal day and this uh neighbor across the street is just Just rifling awful vindictives and expletives and profanity at him. The pastor claimed that the victim was yelling extreme threats, including promises to rape his wife and grandchildren and kill his family. And so the pastor went across the street, And if you look at the video, it does look like the young man swung at him. First, Holding his phone up, trying to get a reaction, of course. And the pastor just went after him, took him to the ground, and just started beating him up.

And apparently enough to get the young man stitches, five or so stitches in his chin. And there's going to be a court hearing. The pastor was taken to jail. And let's see. Looking for the details here.

Arrested and charged with second degree battery, spent several hours in jail before posting bond and being released.

So this is what happened in Louisiana not a few days ago. What are your thoughts and what would you have done? Had you been? Verbally assaulted like that, and you were out working on that bus, what would Jesus do? What should a pastor do?

I mean, pastors are humans. That's the other side of this thing that we seem to forget. I'm Stu Eberson. This is Truth Talk Live.

Now justifying it. But also struggling with What I would have done in that situation, but I'd love to hear from you. We have a lot of listeners with some great insights. I'm going to give you the number. We have a toll-free number nationwide on Truth Talk Live: 866-348-7884.

Toll-free. 866. three, four, truth. The video is circulating. A lot of people are talking about it.

There are still a few folks who maybe haven't heard about it. Maybe you're listening and you know more to the story. That I have not reported or that I haven't been able to get my hands on. I'd love to hear your thoughts at 866-3656-8656. three four truth eight six six three four eight 7884.

The title of the show has been When is it right to fight? When is it right to fight? What about self-defense? Would this be a matter of self-defense? Was this gentleman, this pastor, Actually Mm-hmm.

Justified in as a protector of his family, of his wife, of his grandkids. You know, and sometimes we say that. We say, look, it's one thing you mess with me. It's another thing you start talking about my wife. Or it's another thing you start talking about my grandkids.

Or it's going to get real. When you start bringing them in, But at what point Do we trust God? And I'm not saying that tritely, I'm not saying that just anecdotally, or like in the science school answer, but at what point. Does God do we trust God to fight our battles for us? But then at what point when we're really in it, in the thick of it, Is self-defense justifiable?

Like the another example would be a just war. where someone takes up uh in arms to fight in a battle. They may actually kill someone, but the war, they're under the authority of their government, and they're in a just war situation. And then some would say it's never okay to kill anyone anytime, and they would take more of a passivist position. But I want to hear from you at 866-34TRUTH TOLL FREE 866-348.

7884. We got some great shows on tap this week. We've got Dr. Dathaward Carson and Robbie Dilmore back in the chair tomorrow. Peter Rosenberger on Wednesday.

Some really good programs lined up later this week focusing on the 250th anniversary of America.

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So the topic of the day, what is the right to fight? What about this pastor, Tony Spell? If you just joined us, pastor of Life Tabernacle Church. In Central, which is an area in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. facing a felony charge after authorities say he was attacked by a man He attacked a man.

during a confrontation it was captured on surveillance video. Spell's arrest and charge with secondary battery. He spent several hours in jail before posting bond and being released.

So the video shows Spell and a 20-year-old man near the church. The video shows punches being thrown before both men fell to the ground. Of course, the. The men, the young man instigated with bad language and cursing. and attacking verbal assaults against spells, family.

And according to arrest documents, the alleged victim told investigators he shouted profanity at spell before the confrontation. Authorities say Spell then crossed the street and initiated a fight.

So photos uh provided by the victim's father. show injuries the young man suffered following the altercation. And the son received five stitches.

So, what does a pastor do? What would your pastor do in this situation? And of course, I've had people question ask me questions like, well, where was the congregation? What have they done? And then, of course, there's a whole history of what happened before all this kind of went down.

We got to take a call now from Mike. Let's see what he says. Mike, welcome to Truth Talk Live. You're on with Stu. Hey, hi, Stu.

Thanks for taking my call. Yes, sir. I had a couple, I had a guy down the street, two neighbors down the street. Um he was uh mentally insane. I mean, he really was.

He was a uh a guy two d down down the sane. I've talked to him politely and got him to talk and stuff like that, but he was really scary, super scary. He would do v uh vulgar things at my neighbors, uh against my wife. drive pulling out of the driveway. Um, there was a lot of incidences with him.

And I every time we had an incident, I think the best thing to do is to call the police. I mean, that's what I did. I called my neighborhood police, told them the situation. This guy's doing this, this is what he said. and they kept putting it over and over again.

I also told the police, I'm afraid of this guy. I if he came into my front door, He knocked on my door. I am going to have a gun on my side. And if you know, I if he comes at me at all, There's going to be a controversial.

So I literally talk to the police about what is going on with this situation. over and over and over again. Finally, the police and the city and my prayers. They got the guy some help. And uh It was a lot of prayer, a lot of sweat, a lot of everything.

And the city and the police, and they got the guy help. Um how much help it helped. I don't know 'cause he he's not in the neighborhood anymore. But it took month after month after month. I mean, we're talking maybe a year or so with this guy down the street.

yelling at the guy across the street that had a Trump flag up in front, saying that guy is a you know, oh my gosh. I mean, he's he was yelling at neighbor after neighbor, and it was really a chaos, and it really was. But my advice is to call the police. Yeah. Very good.

Yeah, you know, it's interesting you say that. One pastor just texted in, and he said. He said, I would have turned the other cheek and I would have called the cops. That's what he said. But you know, you bring up a point of mental illness, which has not been brought up yet.

There could have been that going on with this. This 20-year-old uh gentleman. And they're That introduces a whole other area because there are people that have. really mental disturbed capede demon possession. That are really like little, just about to.

burst open on you. And you have to show caution, you have to be wise. and you have to be protective and churches now have armed security guards there. You know, and I don't know that there's I don't know that there's anything wrong with that. I don't know that if brandishing a s a firearm is not trusting the Lord.

You know, I've I've got some major leading. I'm on that team at my church. I really am. And We go through scenarios that we make sure that we just don't just pull out our weapon and shoot someone. You know what I mean?

We have training. We make sure that people are smart with their weapon. I talk to the security guards, and we're wholeheartedly into this. We're not just part of the church walking around with a gun in our pocket. Right, right.

It's a commitment. It's training. It's praying. It's understanding. God, give me wisdom with every situation that comes across my path.

You know what I mean? And it's a commitment. Just like any other service, prayer team, going to feed the hungry in our neighborhood. All those are very unique. It's about commitment, you know, and especially with being a The armed guard in the church.

Yeah, so I think we gotta be careful. We are to be protectors of the women, the children. The pastor is to shepherd his flock and protect his flock. But there also is a gospel heart. And we don't know that this wasn't attempted already.

I just know there's a lot of stories where God used prayer. In a powerful way, and God used a sacrificial someone to turn the other cheek to bring someone to Christ. You know, obviously, this wasn't one of those instances, but we don't know the whole story. But I appreciate your call, Mike. God bless you, my friend.

Good to hear from you. And we have got, we're going to ask our Money Monday's guest, Money Monday's guest about this. When is it right to fight? We'll talk about some good stuff with him when we come back with David Fisher. Hang on.

All right, longtime favorite feature here on Truth Talk Live is Money Mondays. And David Fisher, one thing I like about you is you let us put you on the spot because. The financial world is volatile. It's ever-changing. We're called to be good stewards of our resources.

God has given us. But you just walked into like a hornet's nest, brother, because we're talking about this topic. I want to get your thoughts on it, and I want to get right into this what's going on. You've got an amazing verse for us. But what do you do?

Have you seen the video footage of this pastor that beat up the guy outside his church? No, I have not. Oh, my soul.

Okay, well, we won't put you on the spot as much, but there's surveillance. We talked an hour long about this pastor was out working on his bus, the church, and for some time there had been animosity from the neighbors across the street.

Well, it really heightened this day, and this 20-year-old neighbor started throwing out awful, horrible vindictives and profanity at the pastor, threatening his family, threatening his grandkids. The pastor just kind of. He just kind of had a meltdown and just had no more of it and walked across the street and went after him and they got into a fisticuffs and. Anyway, the pastor went to jail. And uh it's a pretty messy thing, but it just kinda one of those Ideas that we're called to be protectors, but how far is too far?

You know, and how far do we, how are we a peacemaker? What do you do in that situation? And pastors are human, too, right? Yeah. So the scripture that comes to mind off the talk, Stu, is.

the kingdom of God suffers violence And violent men and women take it by force. That doesn't does that mean that we do what the pastor says?

Well, there's also another one that says a false balance. Is an abomination to the Lord.

So, you know, there's somewhere in there there's a balance. We're supposed to turn the other cheek, but we're also. Uh you know, we're also supposed to stand up for the gospel of Jesus Christ. Uh, would I have gone that far and you know, beat up that person? Probably not.

I would just call the police, let them because that's what the police are for, not that's not what a pastor is called to do. Yeah, so it's a tough situation. You know, you got a situation, someone breaks into your house. You know, maybe you don't have time to wait for the police to get there, but you also got to trust the Lord, right? You got to, I mean, at some point, and and but you also, you know, bearing arms maybe isn't such a bad thing either.

And I do want to read this quote by Aleister Begg that a mentor sent me during the show today. He said, As Christians, We need to ensure that any ongoing conflict in our lives is in spite of us, not because of us.

So I like that from Austerbeg. You know, the idea of we shouldn't be provoking that, but we should. Yes, we should trust the Lord. Yes, there's a place for self-defense, but man We've got to look at every opportunity as a gospel opportunity. And we'll probably pick up on this topic again because this thing is going to be played out in court.

There's going to be. Testimonies, there's going to be witnesses from different witnesses coming forward from different perspectives. And what do you do? And of course, I mean, there are, you know, I'm sitting here thinking, man, if this is sitting behind a mic in a nice air-conditioned studio, by the way, David Fisher, I'm not, you know, I wasn't out there in the heat of the moment. But just the thought, man.

What if I offered him a sandwich and said, Hey, can I just pray with you? I mean, something's happened to cause this. You know, can we just pray together? You know, can I love you in Jesus' name? I have some friends that went to a.

A very rough uh r a riot. LGBTQ just a b but but it kind of was with some pretty rough characters. And they just p it was very hot though. They passed out bottles of water. And they def defused What could have been volatile situations actually had a chance to share the gospel.

And, you know, so just by showing that kind of love. But I guess at the same time, you've got to be prepared in case someone comes after you, you know, and it gets violent, which has happened.

So many times. David, you walked right into it, and you're helping us be wise in the area of. What God's called us to. God's given us and trusted us to be stewards, not owners of money. And you're the gold man as well, brother, with Landmark and with all the stuff you're doing.

Give us the verse of the day and take us, tell us a little bit what's on your heart today, brother. Isaiah 40, 17 says, Before him all nations are as nothing. They are regarded by him as worthless and less than nothing.

So this is written you know, obviously when Um There's first of all, Babylon was the superpower. Um this part of the world at the time. you know, where where's Babylon today? It's it's not even a a major thrust economically, spiritually, or any of that. Uh Babylon.

conquered many nations, and had dominion over all of them. But Obviously, empires rise and empires fall. The book of Kings talks about that, and the book of Judges talks about that.

So countries rise and fall. And a nation at one point may be rich. like all paths led to Rome at one point.

Now, look at Rome or Italy, should we say. It's not a major economic thrust, but it was at one point. uh and the United States. is the leading world power right now. And God has His hand and blessings upon our country.

But that does not mean that uh we will be the uh the light On the hill, the salt of the earth, unless we choose to be that and we. Make God first not only in our hearts, but in our government. And we're. doing some very challenging things economically. As a country, that we might be paying we've sold a lot of seeds, we might be reaping some bad bad challenges in that when it comes to our government debt.

You know, and that which is the treasury market. Let's put this into perspective here, Stu. First of all, I love my country. and I wouldn't want to live anywhere else, and I've traveled the world and I wouldn't I choose not to live anywhere else. And that's what God has for my life at this point in my time.

But that doesn't mean that our fi our house is in order, financially speaking. And Countries fall for spiritual reasons. They also fall for economic reasons. And let's put this into perspective. We have a thing called the U.S.

Treasury, which is a debt instrument that we issue. When we need money, and we have a budget deficit of $2.4 trillion. We're spending $2.4 trillion more. Then we have coming in. And if we went back to twenty twenty two, we'd had a three hundred billion dollar budget deficit.

So it's grown and ballooned.

Now we have thirty-nine trillion dollars of national debt versus two thousand two we had five trillion dollars. our interest payment back in two thousand Uh, two was somewhere around two hundred billion dollars yearly.

Now we're at $1.2 trillion, a trillion dollars extra just in the interest payment, and it's the largest thing in the budget.

So we've been issuing this thing called a Treasury bill. And let's put this into perspective. We normally issue fifteen trillion maybe twenty trillion on a high year of Treasury bills. That's a lot of money of debt.

Well, in the last three weeks We've issued $1.9 trillion. If you amortize that over a year, we're at thirty trillion dollars. We're issuing way more debt than we have ever issued before as a country. and we could have a treasury crisis. I'm not the one that's saying this.

The largest hedge fund manager in the world, Ray D'Alio. is saying it. He's asked the question About the future of the United States. And he says. How opt, the question was, how optimistic are you financially about the United States?

And he says, I'm not. I studied this for five hundred years of history and fear we are entering the most dangerous phase This is quoted on march fourteenth of this year in Fortune. The bond king, the guy who knows more about treasuries than anyone else, Jeffrey Gunlock, says. we will have a bond or a treasury crisis. and Jamie Diamond, the CEO of the largest bank in the world, JP Morgan, said in April we will have a bond crisis or a treasury crisis.

Bond and Treasuries are synonymous.

So what does this mean?

Well, this is why we saw this big rally in gold. Because the world is coming to the idea that there's mathematics or simple, two plus two equals four. But we're making it some other number, unfortunately, and it doesn't add up. The world that used to love the U. S.

Treasury market Does not love it no more, and they're moving out of it and been moving into gold. That's why we saw the gold market double. here since twenty twenty two. And now, for the first time in history, Banks, central banks, hold more gold Than treasuries. That is A huge statement.

The European Central Bank said it. Reuters said it, it's mainstream news. And we're just starting this major bull market in gold and uh that's why We have these couple of white papers. I know we're running out of time here. Uh on gold, uh the golden rule.

That has the golden era, excuse me, that has a silver lining. And that talks about what's getting ready to happen in gold. And silver, we might be backing our currency by gold. We'll talk more about that. And four knocks.

But that's one thing that doesn't change. It's I mean, it's it's it's grown. And that's what Landmark Gold, that's what y'all are doing, right? David, helping folks navigate through that. with with sound stewardship of God's money.

in the gold and the silver. Which has been very stable. And man, that's a lot of information, man. I'm glad you put a little good news at the end of that debt stuff, man. That's scary.

Wow. Phew. It's something we need to pay attention to. That's what we'll help your listeners learn more about. That's why we're seeing a rally in gold and silver.

That's why the next five to ten years, we'll probably see gold and silver double again.

So don't Diversify, don't miss out on it. That's true. A portion to seven, a portion to eight, because you do not know what tragedy may befall you. Wow. Now, let me just first of all publicly thank David Fisher and Landmark Gold for being wonderful underwriting partners of Truth Talk Live.

And is it okay if I give them your number? I've got it right here, David.

Okay? Absolutely. They can be reached at this phone number. Toll free eight four four six zero four two five seven five Their website Is landmarkgold.com and they're making available an information, just the information he just shared. He's got a written form to be a blessing to all of our listeners that would like it.

844-604-255. 7-5 and their website is landmarkgold.com. David Fisher, thank you, brother, for being a blessing to us here, man. God bless you, Stu. Thanks for having me.

Yeah, we'll pick it up next week, and it might not be such a hot topic you walk into. Everyone, download the podcast at truthnetwork.com.