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A daily program powered by the Truth Network. This is kind of a great thing, and I'll tell you what. Where pop culture, current events, and theology all come together. Speak your mind. And now, here's today's Truth Talk Live host.
So you've heard this said repeatedly, and I'm not. Challenging this, but I am going to push back a little bit because we're going to ask the question. Is a church a building? Or is the church The people. And so our special guest today Has a ministry slash business slash organization called Building God's way.
And they help people all over the country. build churches. They help people all over the country. Do it the right way. And they have extensive services and they have been a huge help to a lot of folks.
Derek Johnson, I got to bring you up and put you on the hot seat, brother. We're so glad you're with us, man. Hey, thank you so much for having me.
Well, it's good to have you, and it's good to finally talk to someone. That can speak plausibly. to this issue about churches. Why are church buildings so important? Are they so important?
And what do you say? What does a guy who builds churches for a living say to someone that says, well, the church isn't about a building? It's about the people. What do you even say to that?
Well, we actually agree with them. We agree with that statement. But what we see the building as is a tool. a ministry tool, just another tool in your toolbox And today, it's more vital than ever, we feel like, because some of the things that we're doing with facilities today go beyond just your Sunday gathering space. We're looking at the facility as a seven day a week a community embedded facility that can really Drive engagement and really connect with your community in new and exciting ways.
Okay, and for those of you who really press this issue and you're like, well, if I get together with another believer, You know, over at the coffee shop.
Well, we're having church. That's a church. It's not the building over there on Main Street or on Church Street or on Elm Street. It's where we're gathered together. For those of you that really want to strain that and push that, I want you to call in and we'll talk about it.
86634 Truth. 86634 8-7884 is our toll-free number nationwide. This is Truth Talk Live. I'm Stu Epperson. Derek Johnson is with me.
He's the head of this great ministry called Building God's Way. They're based in Ogden, right near our Utah, Ogden, Utah headquarters in Salt Lake, up there just above Salt Lake. They're right near the Big Blue House, our scriptorium, Russ East. These guys are our good friends. And we want them to build more churches.
Or do we?
So I want to give some folks a chance to really, if you can defend the premise, a church isn't about the building, it's about the people.
Now, our guest is too easy. He just jumped in and agreed with me that it is about the people. But, you know, it's funny. The church takes a beating nowadays, Derek, because people throw these things out there as though we worship a building, as though we're into brick and mortar. And I guess there are some abuses.
There are people that put so much stock in the building. that they forget about why they're there. And so that's another important kind of axiomatic foundation of what you do. At building God's way. Is that correct?
Freaking. Absolutely. It's really about counting the costs before going into this. We see that mistake made time and time again. We have so many church congregations that come to us and they've been down the road, maybe with a traditional architecture firm or design build firm.
And And they have a set of plans that are beautiful and They could never afford in a hundred years to build what they have on those plants, but uh You know, so they they've gone down in a in a really um Really far down the road without really counting the costs and really understanding. what it is that their ministry truly needs What their community needs. And what they can really afford. And so we spend a lot of time prior to starting our designs in really trying to understand that, digging into financial analysis of what the ministry really the funding capacity of that ministry and really what it takes to build. A lot of times churches go into it.
Building committees are typically made up of folks that a lot of times haven't been through a building project of that scope or size. And it's really an education process to kind of take them through it and help them understand what can you know the complications that can That can be confronted by a building committee going through these programs.
So, you folks really have a heart for the local church, and you're trying to come alongside and help them. Give us a little bit about how you started, Derek, building God's way and why this really has become a ministry to come alongside so many churches looking to expand, to grow, or at least to mitigate current stuff. Or maybe they want to add a gym or a Christian life center to their facility. Yeah, BGW was founded in the mid nineties here in Ogden, Utah, of all places. Because we, the founder of BGW, wanted to start a Christian school.
here in Utah. We didn't have any Christian schools here. And so he set about doing this, and a lot of the A lot of the structure that he put together as far as bringing subcontractors in and getting gifts in kind in the project and the way that we that we bring subcontractors to the table and actually look for their input as architects, which is rare in the industry, prior to putting plans out for bid and just asking for a price, we're looking for their wisdom and we're looking for their input into how to bring the best stewardship and savings to the project. And so It's a whole different model and approach. And so that initial model that was used to build a Christian school here in Utah, the first one here in Utah, um was taken and replicated and Since that time, we've worked with over 1,200 churches and Christian schools all over the country, in 41 states.
And we just love it. We have a staff here. Of 32 individuals. We have eight licensed architects, and we're all evangelical Christians who have, like you said, a heart for the local church and really want to help churches navigate this sometimes very confusing. process.
Yeah, and I know there's a lot of pitfalls. There's a lot of challenges that you face going in to build a church. There's this. Willing spirit to expand and grow. You can barely keep enough people.
You're doing five services. And so. But you're trying to be a realistic guide. For for folks, but also that kingdom. Asking the question, what does God want?
I mean, how much is that involved in your work and your consulting? Yes, it's absolutely involved. And we surrounded ourselves with a pretty great network of strategic partners. that come in. And so we know that it's going to take more than design and construction to get these ministries to the point Where God has called them to be.
And so we've surrounded ourselves with some really good consultants. Strategic planning coaches, consultants on the finance side and the fundraising side that kind of all come together and are kind of pushing in the same direction. Toward helping the church really understand where they're going, how they're going to get there, and whether what they're thinking is really the right direction. A lot of times, we advise a client, hey, now is probably not the best time to build. Your leadership is really disjointed.
Maybe you need to get on the same path as far as getting everybody on board with this. A lot of times, we see where our building committee is really disjointed and coming to us. And so we'll go through a strategic planning exercise with one of our consultants, and it'll really help them kind of get on board and sort of get in alignment with This is really where we see God leading here in the future.
Okay, I love it. And you're doing something special. You're like doing a strategic plan for people. in Cincinnati, just right near our Dayton, Ohio signal. And of course, we have listeners in Toledo, and we have a lot of listeners on the edge of Indiana that would love this seminar.
It's tomorrow. Give us some details about that, Derek, when we come back. And some of the biggest mistakes or challenges pastors, churches should look at before they build, and some great testimonies with Derek Johnson. Building God's way. Hang on.
More coming up after this. You know, maybe if you don't have to pay the bill. for the big church building The default position is to say, well, the church isn't about a building. It's about people. And you could say that, I guess, Derek Johnson, with Building God's Way, a great ministry, helping churches build churches affordably and wisely, and going through all that process, helping Christian schools, helping add-on facilities and other things, really, just to come alongside ministry to so many.
Your website is fraught with all kinds of great testimonies of people you've helped. Derek Johnson, I guess you could argue that, well, a house is not a home. But I'm still driving somewhere after the show. Where I'm going to, you know, kick off my shoes and sit down for supper with that wonderful family.
So a home is part of it, but maybe it comes down to what's honoring Christ. And really that's the foundation. Like, how would you describe your mission for those that just joined us, Derek Johnson, building God's way?
Okay.
Well, our mission is really to help churches understand that they like you said, the building is really a tool. It's really a tool to accomplish what God has called you to accomplish. And that's what we want to help churches kind of get to is to develop the best, most refined tool that they can have that will That will really reach people in their community effectively. And so getting churches to think holistically about the building as more than just, like I said, on a Sunday meeting or gathering place or maybe two or three times a week, It's like, how do we use this building to draw the community in throughout the week for other things? Whether it's, you know, we're thinking about all kinds of things these days when we're We're doing conceptual design and master planning exercises with churches about Hey, what does the community need?
And how can you help meet some of those needs in your community, whether it be childcare? Or maybe it's an event center. Maybe it's a cafe, the community cafe, or a place where children can come and play and their mothers can meet. Whatever it is, workshop, classes, adult education, those kinds of things.
So those are all things that we incorporate into that master planning conceptual design exercise to really help churches think outside the box and think more holistically about how that facility can really address community needs beyond beyond ministry needs and those should go hand in hand. Yeah, and I love your seminar idea. You know, you're going to do some seminars, I believe, in Charlotte, Raleigh, some great church growth areas in North Carolina, but you are going to be tomorrow like. April the 28th in you're going to be in Uh northern Cincinnati.
Okay.
Ohio, tell everyone real quick the details on that, and then we got to go to a caller. Oh. Yes, we'll be at Center Point Christian Church in Liberty Township up in North Cincinnati. We do these seminars all over the country. And so, yes, tomorrow, there is still time to register if you're in that area, you want to attend.
It uh it goes from 8 o'clock until 2 o'clock, and we have a breakfast and a lunch, and we've got a lot of great speakers.
Some of the strategic partners I mentioned earlier on funding and finance, architecture, design and construction. Strategic planning, they're all going to be there. And so it's a great opportunity to kind of connect with. Not only those experts, but also other churches that are kind of doing the same thing or in the same Maybe the size or maybe in the same stage of growth as you are and looking for options, looking for solutions. Anyone, everyone who has any heart or connection or part of any kind of committee that's helping your church with your facilities, with how to expand, how to grow.
Maybe you're looking at multi-campus. Maybe you're looking at upgrading to having a Christian school so you can fill that place up on Monday through Friday. This is the seminar to go to. What's the website, Derek? It's building Gods Way dot com.
And all you got to do is right up at the top, you click on events. And you'll see You'll see a little link there for the seminar. Click on that, and you'll see all the dates listed.
Okay, got to get registered for that, and we're excited. that you guys are hosting this. And we we've been advertising it hard on 106.5 FM Toledo, 106.5 FM Dayton, Greenville, right there in the heart of Ohio and on into Indiana, you know, areas like Muncie. Areas like Marion, send your pastor, send your facility guys. Christian College, go down there and just pick the brain of these.
Godly men who have passion who've made it their passion to help churches and help Christian ministries grow properly, build God's way all the way through. Larry's got a comment. He's an Ohio caller. Listen to us on 106.5 FM. Larry, you're on with Stu Epperson and Derek Johnson.
of building God's way. Go ahead, sir. Hello, Stu and Derek. This is Larry. And yes, I wanted to say that I believe churches are for God.
Jesus called it the house of the Lord. And just like when Moses had to go to the mountain and God put his special presence on the mountain, he said, take your shoes off for your own holy ground. It's a place for God's special presence to be there. And it's also a lighthouse to the lost. For the Christians, we have God with us all the time.
But for the lost, they need to know where to go to find the Lord as there's nobody out there.
So the house of God is a place for that, and it's a place of love.
So it's more than just the financial part of it. But of course, that's important. But the heart of the matter is it's about love and God reaching out to us and having his special presence somewhere where we can go and find God. Wow. Larry, well said.
Derek, Johnson, what about Larry? You disagree with him, or what are your thoughts? thoughts Amen to that. Wholeheartedly agree with that. Wow.
And I'm sorry. I got to go to work. Bye-bye, guys. Hey, God bless you, Larry. Thanks for calling 106.5 FM.
Larry, tell your pastor. Or whoever is involved in leading your facility, to be sure to attend this special seminar tomorrow.
Now, Derek, the seminar is what's $1,000 a head to attend, $10,000 ahead? What's the price on it? I think that's No, it's $10, and it's less than that if you got a group of three or more.
So basically, you. You know, we've done these for free in the past, but we do serve some food, and so it's nice to have a little bit of a commitment level there so we know how many people are coming. But we'll have a nice group signed up for tomorrow, but we're still accepting registrations through tonight.
So we're looking forward to it.
Well, that whole corridor, Ohio, Cincy, all over the place, Greenville, on into. The different areas there in Indiana. Even Lower Detroit, you know, everyone that can hear us on 106.5, please, hey, these guys are coming a long way. to be a support to the church. And the only thing they benefit from is maybe someone says, hey, we need some help.
We don't want to go into debt. And with that in mind, Derek, real quick, give us two or three of the biggest mistakes. Church is made when these building programs come up. Give us real quick. What would you say?
Yes. Yes, I think the first and the primary one is one that we talked about in the first segment there with counting the cost, and that really relates to you know, master planning. And um So it really is important to think about Okay, what is the master plan, the end goal of what the ministry is trying to accomplish? And so we'll start with that. And then a lot of times we'll say, okay, what is the first step?
in accomplishing that master plan. And so that is what we'll design in that first phase. And so that prevents a lot of what we see out there in the marketplace where architects are drawing up these big dreams and the church is spending tens of thousands of dollars on these beautiful plans that they could never afford to build. And so we're thinking about it in a phase approach, and we're looking at a master plan that it thought through very carefully with all the ministry leaders' input. and really trying to understand where we want to go and how are we going to get there and what's the plan.
And so that's step one. And then we get into helping the church really understand how to build an effective building committee. And how to select the right people, and make sure that we've got some diversity on that committee with age groups. Demographics. That can really that can really feed into and Sign up for that seminar.
We got to go. Give us the website one more time, Derek. Building God's Way if they can find out more and be in attendance tomorrow. BuildingGodsWay.com and click on events at the top. Hey, thanks for what you're doing, my friend.
What a great ministry. Building God's Way. And then go to the website and then click on the seminars. God bless you, my friend.
