The Abolitionist Movement

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And now, here's today's Truth Talk Live host. What is an abolitionist? What is an absolute abolitionist? Is a Christian abolitionist in 2026. Guys, we've got a treat for you today.

I've got a T. Russell Hunter from Abolitionist Rising, and their platforms right now have over a million followers on them. But I wanted to welcome you to the show, Russell. Oh, I'm glad to be here, brother. Yes, sir.

And this has been a really a hot-button issue. And it's been an issue that a lot of people have been talking about. But you said you actually went, it's funny because you kind of went to the public schools. You went to the University of Oklahoma. And I'm sure you heard the other side.

Is that right? Yeah, because I'm traditionally, I'm just not from like, I don't come at this, or I didn't come up. And decide to, you know, be a part of the pro-life movement or, you know, anything like that. I don't come from seminary or ministry, I come from. Yeah, just like a strictly kind of secular academic background.

I don't I don't take that secular approach today as a believer in the Word of God, but Yeah, I've I come from hearing the approach. That was what I was. raised hearing So, yes, very familiar with it.

So, we all know about the pro-life movement. What is a Christian abolitionist? Yeah, so there's a lot of differences between pro-lifers and abolitionists, but I think. the most significant one Uh if you kind of want to start with one and then kind of unpack it and let everything flow out of that. is that an abolitionist takes a gospel centered approach to the evil of child sacrifice And that is both in the area of law and policy, but also in sort of public engagements with individuals or groups of people.

So a gospel-centered approach. A biblical theological approach is going to mean that in all of the cases and conversations, your answers are going to be rooted. And informed in the Word of God. Um that's going to end up Making a, and some listeners might be kind of like, well, yeah, that's me too. I'm a pro-lifer.

But if you really do start with that, you're going to find yourself quite different from the mainline pro-life movement. Because whenever certain things happen, like you come up to the question of what should be done about abortion. In law. Should it be criminalized with criminal punishments for those who carry out the act? Or should it be just something that we regulate to try to decrease?

Well, you go to the Word of God and you look at it and say, well, What does the Word of God say about people who willfully sacrifice their children? Who Terminate their children. What does the word of God say about? Um people who caused the death of a child while they're in the womb.

Well, the Word of God actually treats that as a capital crime. and expects People to treat it as a capital crime, so as murder.

So that's where a lot of the big differences, like a lot of the big that you see between abolitionist And pro-lifers come in. We say it's we say it's murder. They often say it's murder. But we mean that it'll be treated exactly like murder.

So the way that abortion the way that murdering born people is treated. abolitionists would say that is identical to the way that preborn people are treated. And then the the gospel component there. Is that When you teach and preach and legislate abortion as murder. Then you're telling people.

Hey, there's good news here though. Though your sins are scarlet, they can be made white as snow. And we not only Believe this is murder, but we believe there's a God who forgives. Murder. Instead of telling people they haven't murdered, they need to forgive themselves.

They need to move on. that sort of thing. Like we We believe that people need to hear. Just how Evil, this sin is. and just how good God is.

So that's just a scratching the surface, but Yeah, and one of the things that I remember during the 2016 election, they had asked all of the different candidates who were running. They said, What should be the punishment for somebody who murders their own child? And all of them said, Well, we are going to punish the abortionist. But Donald Trump, in one moment, he came out and he said, No, we should punish the woman who murdered her child. Do you remember that?

Yeah, so that was like a so a town hall meeting and um Donald Trump had not yet been Sort of guided by the pro-life movement.

So he had not. gotten around yet to being advised by the leaders of the pro-life movement.

So whenever He was asked, should there be punishments for those who abort their children. He just because it's logical, just relying on just logic. And assuming that clearly, if pro-lifers are saying abortion's murder, that clearly is the position that he's. Running on. He needs the pro-life vote.

So he just logically put it together. Yes, there should be punishment. Um Which I don't know if that's what he actually thought or not, but that's what logic would entail. What happened though is within about an hour of that Event airing He retracted it. And and went with the pro-life movement's position and explained that no, It would just be the abortionist.

You know, no pro-life American believes that women should be punished. He got his. you know, Kristen Hawkins or someone set him straight. But yeah, that was very interesting to see. Because at that point in twenty sixteen, we hadn't seen Donald Trump Backtrack on much anything, but this shows you how powerful the pro-life movement is.

And also how um sort of, I would say, how incredibly wrong They are at the top. Because I believe when Donald Trump answered that question, it seemed bold and it probably resonated with a lot of people, them thinking.

Well, this makes a lot of sense. I've never heard that before. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and it did resonate with a lot of people. And I think, you know, there was probably a time where, you know, the abolitionists weren't even really thought of at all.

But like I said earlier, you guys are really building some steam. And one of the things that I've seen, especially with the debate with you and Doug Wilson, is that people are taking you guys seriously. And, you know, there was something that actually just happened in Iowa. Is that right? Yeah, so we just had our national sort of there's abolition bills going forth in multiple states, of course, right now, but we had Picked at least Abolitionist Rising, we picked Iowa.

We're going to head into Iowa. Support a legislator there who had filed a bill of abolition. He was a guy who was an abolitionist who was an abolitionist before he ran. He had run. To do this, and he was filing a bill that criminalized abortion in Iowa.

So we said, look, let's have our national conference there. At the same time, take the people who come to our conference to the Capitol.

So, how to. had a rather rather large and um Loud, you know, by loud, I mean if you put a bunch, if you put 300 Christians in a marble mausoleum and have them sing. You know. Crys of Solid Rock. It's pretty loud.

It's pretty fun. Um but yeah, so we had a had a big rally there to support Um that bill And previous to our rally, we had released a video Explaining the makeup of the Republican legislature. that it was super majority professing pro-life Christian conservative politicians and that they had absolutely nothing in their way to passing this bill. And because the standard excuses of we don't have the votes or we don't have the support or we just can't do that. None of them None of them were real in Iowa.

It just came down to whatever the Christian conservative. Politicians wanted to do an IO, they could do. And so that's why we chose that state as well. Yeah, and so there has been some pushback. But like you said before, this can be the logical conclusion from anybody that you really talk to.

And you said you've got scripture for that, is it in the book of Isaiah? Yeah, so the scripture that I think is so significant here. Um, when you're dealing with, and I tell you what, I want you to grab that scripture, but I want you to tell the audience when we come right back from the break, abolitionists rising, and we've got somebody out of Iowa who actually has a question for you when we come back. We'll be right back after the break. Truth.

All right, guys, we are back with T. Russell Hunter from Abolitionist Rising. And we've got somebody who may be on the other side, I believe, is on the phone as well. But before we get to them, Russell, what was the scripture that you shared with me before the break? Yeah, so Isaiah, and there's a number of scriptures you can cross-list with this, but Isaiah 10, 1 through 2, he says, Woe to those who decree iniquitous decrees.

and the writers who keep riding oppression. to turn aside the needy from justice, to rob the poor of my people of their right, That widows may be their spoil, and that they may make the fatherless their prey. The reason that This particular verse is so often quoted by abolitionists is that When it talks about iniquitous decrees and God's disposition towards those as woe. Iniquitous decrees are decrees that treat Some humans As more needing protection than others.

So, those who are the needy in this passage are the abandoned woman and the abandoned child, the fatherless child. And the writers who keep writing oppression aren't necessarily writing oppression that says, hey, you're allowed to. kill these people They're writing impression in or writing laws in such a way that allows some humans to be protected while others are not being protected. And so profit after profit. Major and minor, the call to establish justice for fatherless children is there.

And what you always see especially in the the larger prophetic books. is there are always people Who stand up and say, listen, God is not actually angry with us when we are doing. The most good. Sure, we may not be Removing all of the places of child sacrifice. We may not be.

Establishing equality, but we're doing good. God's cool with us. Peace, peace. We're winning. And that sort of Saying that these sort of what the prophets are always calling false prophets or the lying tongues of the false prophets.

And so the reason we use these passages and apply them and learn so much from today is that we see the same thing, where you'll have, like in a place like Iowa, to tie it to where we're at in the conversation. You will have As I said, a supermajority of Republican, conservative, pro-life lawmakers. And they can write laws, and they can write whatever laws they want to write. They can write laws that. Show Actual equality.

And justice for the pre-born, or they can write laws which show partiality, which is condemned throughout scripture as well as an abomination. They can show partiality to one person. over another person. Like, for example, a law that was put forward in Iowa instead of our law that we were all supporting was a law that said, listen, we're not going to criminalize the act of abortion. We're not going to say the person who chooses to order with malice aforethought pills that then would be chosen to be put in the mouth.

to kill a baby. That person, we are going to make sure is protected in law. There should be no punishment. Four. A mother who who becomes an abortionist.

So whenever an appeal is ordered, And opened and put inside of the body, the mother becomes an abortionist.

So if a mother chooses to abort her child, she shall be protected in our laws and given immunity. What we want to do is Regulate The pills. and try to cut down the access to pills. It's kind of like in the gun debate: you know, is it that guns kill people, or is it that people, bad people using guns, kill people? The pro-life movement has this position right now that we don't want to.

We don't want to You know Actually, criminalize the act of abortion. We want to sort of regulate the abortion pills. And so in Iowa, even though we had hundreds of abolitionists there to support. The Abolition Act The media, the politicians, the lobbyists. All of the people in positions of power and authority and influence said, no, no, no.

We're not going to hear this bill to abolish abortion. We would rather hear a bill to Regulate it. And so that's exactly what ended up happening. I gotcha. And we've got a Rebecca Haney.

She's in radio as well. Are you there, Rebecca? I am. Can you guys hear me? Yes, we can.

What did you? You had a question or a comment? Oh, goodness.

Well, first of all, I just want to applaud when it comes to the common ground that we have, which is that abortion is the intentional killing of a human being, and it should not be permitted. In our land, it should be ended, it should be abolished. And in fact, I've called myself an abolitionist in terms of the historical reference for years, Russell.

So I appreciate all the many good things that we can agree on there. I am from Iowa, and so I have intimate knowledge of what just happened here, and I am concerned about the impact of the, what do I call it? I would say the mystified binary. of the approach.

So I know the last thing talk radio wants is nuance.

So I'm just going to try to present my concerns as a question, Russell, if I may. Sure. You say all incrementalism is essentially iniquity. Is that correct? No, I don't say that.

I've never actually said that. The phrase all incrementalism is iniquity would be like a particular common straw man What is iniquity is iniquity.

So if you have iniquity. And you try to get it through the door. Via incrementalism, you're doing something wrong. You're sneaking iniquity in, and you're justifying it. because it gains you a step.

But there's nothing wrong with incrementalism. Incrementalism is actually good if you mean this is taking time or we're taking steps. over gaining ground, the abolitionist movement has been taking incremental steps since its inception. We've gone from a very small handful of people who agree with us to a very large movement that has to be discussed and dealt with and straw manned incessantly. You know.

In the Western world. You know, one year you put forward the bill, it's like you look at William Wilberforce. He puts forward a bill to abolish the slave trade, gets a certain amount of votes, but it you know, gets We're ignored. And then another bill gets those votes. And then you can track it over the next 20 years.

This brother put forward the same bill abolishing the slave trade, but each year gained ground incrementally. Even though people came along and said, Well, why don't we do what you're saying? but do it gradually. And so they would vote for the gradual abolition bill and then they would deny the immediate abolition bill. But the incrementalism on the side of the abolitionist is good, it's fine, it's It's biblical.

I think. you know sanctification happens incrementally so There's nothing wrong with incrementalism, but there is Everything wrong with iniquity, and somehow, sleigh of hand, justifying it by. saying, oh, well, we didn't get Equality We ask for inequality, but hey, we're gaining ground incrementally as if that somehow sanctions or sanctifies it. That's the issue.

Okay, I appreciate that clarification. And I'm not attempting to straw man at all. I just I've heard lots of your debates and points. And you do tend to equate things that we would call incrementalism as legislating iniquity. And so I'm glad for that clarification because I would like to agree in them.

I would write. But then again, I guess that goes back to the definition of what it is we're trying to accomplish.

So just a little bit about me is that I have advocated for what's called the personhood approach for at least two decades in my state and nationally. I've been part of the original organizations for that in my state. And it's taken a long time to try to build credibility and coalitions with The pro-lifers, like you said, I mean, there's a storied history there, and that's a lot of inside baseball. But what I've seen happen in my state that I am concerned about is that there were dueling bills this last time around. I know Zach, and I know folks all across the board.

And I've had long, long, hours-long conversations with our legislators. We had a supermajority. We had a really beautiful window. That we could have done something to protect life at conception. We could have done something to end abortion in our state.

Um and because of the internecine warfare, you might say. That provided not only a loss of that opportunity because now nothing is being done in our state, but it also provided cover for the squishy Republicans who weren't really pro-life to say, well, see, even the pro-lifers don't know what we're doing, so we're going to bow out. And I like to say that. And we're going to get Russell's response to that right after the break. Rebecca, I appreciate the call.

We will be right back after this break. Truth Tell. Guys, we are back on the show. We had Rebecca ask a couple of really good questions, and Russell, you're there, right? Yes, sir.

Yeah, here's the question that I would ask you. We have tried to compromise. We have tried to do everything that we can to take bits and pieces off of this sin of abortion. And many people would say, how has that worked out for us? You know, abortion became legal in this country in 1973.

And ever since it became legal, we have had majority on the Supreme Court. We've had the majority Republican president. We've had Republican Congress. And for so many years, really nothing got done. And then you could say, well, a few years ago with the overturning of Roe versus Wade Dobbs, oh, it was a huge victory.

But then I looked at it the year afterwards, and there were actually more abortions after that happened than before. What do you say? Correct. Yeah.

So I mean this ties into the question that was being asked, it it is always There these times where we have the opportunity to do something. And we can do anything that we want. Like as you mentioned, you have A period where you do have Republicans. in both chambers And in the presidency. And you have the Supreme Court.

What happens at that moment? do you go with the sort of increment that you've been calling for? Like the sort of thing you put together whenever you couldn't do anything? Like a bill that you had to moderate you know, almost to nothing. Do you go with that when you have the power and ability To do the whole thing.

And that's what we've seen over and over and over again. For instance, when the Supreme Court Gathered if they were majority abolitionists. What you would have got from the Supreme Court was: in the United States of America. According to our Principles, our governing document, the Constitution. No person shall be deprived the right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.

Henceforth, abortion is criminalized in all 50 states. No state may allow anyone to murder an unborn child. This is something they could have written. But they didn't write that. Instead, they actually wrote, We're going to repeal Roe v.

Wade, and we're going to allow the states. to regulate child sacrifice in however they want. which has actually just meant Each state gets to choose what they do about abortion And every state, even the states that are pro-life, Have continued to allow abortion because all of the pro-life states give express immunity to mothers. And all of the pro-choice states Say the same exact thing, they just call it good.

So We live in an online world, and so now abortion pills flowing through our mailboxes is the primary way that people get abortions.

So, of course. This was the perfect cocktail for an increase in abortion numbers.

Now, to connect this back to what the um the lobbyist that the the called in said Um what's interesting is if there was a personhood bill that was gaining traction in Iowa and there was an intranacine fight about it, I couldn't tell. There was no one at the Capitol rallying and calling for a personhood bill. And if the personhood bill that was being put forward Wasn't identical to an abolition bill, then it didn't need to be being put forward.

So It's interesting that she brought that up. I couldn't even tell. You know, there were a number of bills. That were filed, and we looked at every bill that was filed that had something to do with abortion. and they all either regulated abortion as if it was health care Or They failed to treat abortion as murder, and so sometimes the personhood bill doesn't.

Even talk about abortion as murder or seek to prohibit it as an act. It'll say, You know, personhood begins at conception. And an unborn human is a person from the moment of conception and should be protected.

Well, just saying should be protected is different than saying A born person. Who is with child should be prohibited. From terminating their child.

So they come at law in two different ways. And they actually, and we've tested this, we've seen this. In Texas, they have passed personhood legislation where you have personhood from conception. Like in their laws, and this is in other states as well, where an unborn human, human embryo at the moment of conception, a human zygote has personhood. The problem is, the mother has abortion rights.

So she has the right to an abortion and an abortion Terminate. A personhood having individual. Abolitionists do, if you want to call it a war, I don't know if it's a war, but abolitionists do disagree with that. As I said at the beginning of the program, The Word of God doesn't approach things that way. The Word of God does have law prohibitive.

We all know it. Thou shalt not, thou shalt not, thou shalt not. And so in the Word of God, it's you're not allowed to murder because human beings are made in the image of God. And if you attack an image bearer, you're attacking God, and so you're committing a capital offense against God. And so personhood laws tend to Again, sleigh of hand.

they do not actually say anything prohibitive about what Pregnant women or couples in society can do. They just say. Babies have personhood.

Okay. They do. But It's kind of an arbitrary thing. All humans. are image bearers and you can't murder image bearers.

And image bearing begins at conception because that's whenever a human begins. And so, you know, Jesus began his human life at conception, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, I just think that these two sides in this debate, specifically the personhood guys, because the personhood folks. They agree that It should be gotten rid of entirely.

So, I have tons of friends who are former members of the personhood movement. the personhood movement kind of was. a precursor of the abolitionist movement in a sense. It's just it's kind of come to the point where it's like, okay. We do need to choose a bill.

We do need to choose approach. Is our approach going to be abortion is murder? It should be abolished. Is that what we're doing? Or are we doing something else?

And so it shouldn't be a war, it should be a dialogue. And then a decision. And young people that are getting to choose are choosing abolition. The the problem is is that people who have positions and they've fought for things for the past two decades. Tend to not really be interested in getting rid of or jumping ship.

From the things that they've been calling for. And then that gets us back to what happens: whenever you have been calling for. less than you should. You haven't been calling for the prohibition of murder. When you get the opportunity to pass anything you can, You are going to prioritize the thing that you've been calling for for your own human reasons.

And though and so there in Iowa, I guess some personed people Wanted, whenever they had these supermajorities, to pass a personhood bill. But a personhood bill passing in Iowa would not do anything. If it does not include criminalizing the act of abortion.

Sorry, brother. That was a long answer. No, you're good. You know, it's funny. One of the first passages that I ever memorized in the Bible was Revelation 3, 15 through 16.

And he says, I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot. I would thou wert cold or hot.

So then, because thou art lukewarm and neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out of thy mouth. And I tell you what, one of the reasons I think sometimes we compromise, Russell, is because of convenience. Yep. Totally. Convenience or fear?

I'd say I'd say there's just like all and all of it probably falls under lack of faith.

So it's kind of like, why are you compromising? You've got The God of the universe, who's asked you to do something, and he's made it clear: like, I want you to. Like if you look at like the law of God, for instance, clarity on What do you do when there are people in your Culture That practice child sacrifice.

Well, Leviticus 20. And it's just the first five verses. It literally says when you have people giving their children over to Moloch. sacrificing their children. You must.

Put them to death. It just says it. And then it says, if you do not, If that's not your disposition towards them, then I will turn my face against you.

So we kind of like that shudder at that because that's That's God's fiery hot. Completely not lukewarm. view towards murder. And he's consistent from Genesis to Revelation. Murder is a capital murder.

Now we don't like that because that's not popular. And we also think that we can't pass that because it's not popular.

So, what we do. is our lack of faith because we don't think doing what God tells us to do Is going to be successful because we don't think that the God who made the universe. who invented all that we see. is actually able and powerful enough to see to it That We do what he wants us to do. And so, what we do is we make these deals and we compromise.

If you want to see a perfect passage on this, you just look at the exchange between Pharaoh and Moses. where Pharaoh constantly offers Moses opportunities to to compromise. to get a little bit. And Moses has to go back and tell his people: Pharaoh says he's not letting us go. And you know, they grumble at him, like, why did you do this, Moses?

But when Moses does. Stand with God and just ask for what God asked him to do to let the people go, God shows up. And that's where we get all of these, you know, miracles and these plagues. What we have in our culture today is we have a Total, utter disbelief that God is going to do anything.

So we think in our worldly wisdom, well, since God's not going to show up and He's not going to back us. We need to be clever and we need to come up with these strategies and we need to prioritize these things. and then call them good. when according to scripture, they're actually evil. And so you have, like, you know, God says life begins at conception.

Well, let's say life begins at a heartbeat. Why?

Well, because we don't think we can get conception. Why can't you get conception? The God of the universe is backing you. Uh well, I just don't. I don't know.

No one wants to say, I don't think God exists. But that is how people act. Because they have no fear of either um God, but but they do have fear of man. And so that is a perfect sort of recipe for faithlessness. and believing in all sorts of things and you end up doing things that God hates.

And then, when you fail at those things, whenever you also I think the Dobbs decision, God hates it according to the word of God because of the Isaiah scripture that I read. Like, we know God says, Woe to you, you enacted a lawless decree that made fatherless children pray. Why in the world? Did it fall flat, and we had more abortions after the repeal of Roe v. Wade than we did before?

Well, because we feared man. Made plans and hid in the shadow of Pharaoh, and it fell to nothing.

So that fear, that's where it leads. Absolutely. When we come back, we've got our final segment. We'll be All right, guys, we got abolitionists rising. T.

Russell Hunter in for the last segment. I've got a quote for you, buddy. If Jesus had preached the same message that ministers preach today, he never would have been crucified. You know, in all of Jesus' ministry, Russell, I never at one time saw him lick his finger, put his hand up in the air, see which way the wind was blowing, and go that way. He stood for truth.

Right. And you s and you and when you look at his ministry, Who is it? Precisely. that we see time and time again that he has conflicts with. And why does he have those conflicts?

Like, why, when he is refusing to do that, does he come under the critical ire of the Pharisees and the Sadducees? It's not because these guys, um hated God per se. It's that they had these chief seats and these good greeting places, marketplace. gathering positions and all that. And they saw that this guy who came across came on the scene.

And it said that he just spoke, and it was true, and that truth resonated with people. That he was saying something that people wanted to hear. And it was compelling to them. I mean to a certain degree, it's just truth is recognizable. And they recognized that, that was what was happening.

And so there was conflict there. And so that is what we're Experiencing. I know whenever you probably said, I'll have this guy on the show. He goes on college campuses and he talks to people about abortion. And then here we haven't really talked about any of that because we've been getting to the weightier matters of the law and what to do about abortion.

But that's not a complaint, by the way. I really enjoy I'm glad to see this kind of conversation breaking through and ending up on radio. But it is what we're this is where we're at. We've got Okay. And a an establishment position That everyone has assumed is right and good and true, and that it represents not only them, but The word of God.

And it is this pro-life movement. We've seen it as good. And the pro-choice movement is bad. That's how we were we were raised. And we assumed that the pro life movement was in line with the Word of God.

But what we're finding out and have and it's not you know, I don't ask people to just believe me. I want them to go look and see. is that when it comes down to it the pro-life movement because of a a year after year, you know, checking the wins and seeing what can be done It has changed so much That the regular person, the person listening to the show that's like a pro-lifer, and they're kind of like, well, wait. But I agree with everything that this guy's saying. I must be an abolitionist.

Well, yeah, you probably are an abolitionist. in ideology, you just call yourself pro-life. and you think that the pro life movement is trying to abolish abortion as murder. But I just invite you to get on Google, look around. When we've had these bills, put forward in states such as in Louisiana back in twenty twenty two, And they go to the House floor for a debate.

The very committees that put them there because they thought They were just people like, hey, this is abortion's murder. It's bad. I'm a pro-lifer. I ran as a pro-lifer. This must be what we want.

Yeah, let's pass it on to the House floor for a vote. they'll get letters. from all of the leading pro-life organizations telling them that we absolutely as a pro-life movement and they speak for tens of millions of pro-life Americans. We absolutely do not believe abortion should be criminalized. And so we have witnessed pro life politicians who themselves were probably at heart thinking abolition was what the pro-life movement wanted.

Back up. And, you know, oh. I did the pro-life leaders are telling me this is bad. And why is it bad? It's not bad according to the word of God.

It's bad in that it doesn't line up with the ideology and the legislative priorities of the pro-life movement. And all of that is on trial right now in our country. In our culture, And we're seeing the Overton windows you know, shift. we're seeing a paradigm shift. And it's people who trust and believe in the Word of God, and they want to see our actions lined up with it.

Yeah, and I have a a question from the lady who was on before. She sent me a message. She said, how do you intend to gather the coalition necessary to pass abolition by calling the vast majority of pro-lifers your enemies? There we go.

Well, so i if you notice, that's another straw man. She she'll she if she were on the line, she would say. She would say, no, no, no, I didn't straw menu. But see, if you run back everything that I've said on this program, and I would say everywhere else. You don't actually find abolitionists saying pro-lifers are Yeah.

Enemies, right? We don't you know, you could say you could maybe find something like they end up being enemies to the cause of justice or something like that. But actually, what I said is that there needs to be a dialogue, not a war. She used the word war. I said there needs to be a dialogue, and then we need to choose.

the right thing and and i said how do we choose the right thing by choosing the biblical thing And then I explained that people have spent so much time Doing their thing that, like, when they can do whatever they want, they end up prioritizing their thing instead of what ought. To be done, or what can be done. And it's very important that they look at what they're doing and what they're calling for and ask the question. Is it biblical? Is it what God would have us to do?

Or is it something that God has never asked us to do or expressly told us not to do?

Now, whenever you hear all of this stuff, everything I'm saying, What happens, and this is not just happening with her, but it's happening with all these pro-life leaders who are in this trap. You hear Oh, I'm in You know, he's saying I'm wrong and I'm bad.

Well What you should hear is Hey, repent with us. We are trying to have one unifying coalition. We all want to be together and doing. What God would have us to do, and only what He would have us to do. Um but if they're unwilling to sort of like Listen to, okay, let's get into the nitty-gritty.

What is wrong with this personhood bill? Where does it fall short? Let's have that debate. If you don't want to have that debate because you know where it's going to go, You bristle up. You say, well, you're just saying we're all enemies.

And then instead of dealing with the ideas. you actually shift you're dealing with the people.

So that's like a subtle ad hominem attack. It's probably the most common attack on the abolitionist movement. Instead of dealing with what we're saying, Shift it to you guys. are being disunifying By calling us enemies. you're not really recruiting us correctly.

But if you notice, that's exactly what she's doing. she's actually shifting from the discussion to an accusation that is actually inaccurate because I didn't call her an enemy and I didn't call any of them enemies. But Yeah. Yes, and we've got you. And he cut out for just a second.

But, guys, this is something that we really all should be listening to. One of the things that I hear when I think about this is the pro-life movement or the abolitionist or whatever you are, we should all be fighting for what we believe. And every single time that we compromise on any issue at all, a lot of times it's a problem. And then, some, you know, it's so funny when it comes to the abolitionist movement or when it comes to saying that abortion is legal or it should be legal or it shouldn't be legal. The other side always, always, the pro-abortion side, they always know exactly what they believe.

They stand firm for what they believe. And they continue to go through and to stand firm. Yet, on our side, On our side, then on our side, people want to be wishy-washy. They want to say, Oh, well, maybe it's okay. Maybe we can compromise here, there, or whatever it is.

And I noticed that we do this with Christian apologetics as well. And so, the Bible says that if anybody asks you for a reason for the hope that you have within you, he says, Always be willing to give an answer to anybody that asks you. And I think every single day that when we wake up, we need to know that what we're doing is making a difference. And so, anytime I compromise, and I'll be honest, guys, there's some times where I get up and I probably don't speak up where I should, and I feel bad about that. But the truth is, is that every day is a new day.

And if we messed up yesterday, then we can still do something today that will make a difference. We can do something today that will make a difference. The Bible says, Thy word is a lamp unto my feet. And a light onto my path. It says that in Psalm 119, 105.

And I tell you what, whatever you feel about this abortion situation, there is a guy right now who just won the primary over in Texas. And I'm sure Jeff's smiling right now. He knows who he is, but he could be the next senator of the state of Texas. And what he says right now is this: he says. He says, look, he says.

It's not really a life until the person takes their first breath. I mean, come on, guys. Come on, guys. You know, if somebody wants to believe something enough, they're going to find a reason to believe in what they believe. And so, even if they know it's wrong, I'm sure deep down, this 36-year-old man who just won the Democratic primary over in Texas, I'm not even going to mention his name, but I'm sure that if he deep down, he knows what's truth.

He went to seminary. He went to Presbyterian seminary. And so this is what he says. He says, look. He says, I'm going to do what is expedient.

I know that the Bible says that there is only one way to get to heaven. Jesus Christ said, I am the way, the truth, and the life. Nobody comes to the Father but by me. I know that. But I've got to win this.

I want to win the Senate seat, and I'm going to say whatever I have to say. In order to win. And yeah, I'm going to use some of the Bible verses out of context about how Jesus loves everybody and He does. but that we cannot go, we cannot sin against a holy God forever. We cannot sin by continuing to have abortions, by continuing to do what we know is wrong.

We have to stand for truth.

So follow Abolitionist Rising online. They're on Facebook. They're on YouTube and everywhere else. And I really want to thank Russell for coming on today. It was absolutely phenomenal.

And we look forward to seeing you tomorrow. Bye.