Christian Nationalism & the Call to Repentance

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Good afternoon. Welcome to Truth Talk Live. I am Peter Rosenberger. Glad to be with you today. Merry Christmas, 866.

three four eight seventy eight eighty four eight six six 34 truth. And by the way, I just heard Stu's um remarks on his book. The first words of Jesus. I would recommend getting that book. It's a very good book, and I think you'd enjoy it immensely.

uh from Stu Epperson.

So it's Christmastime, it's a great gift too. Since it is Christmas. I I got some I want to run by you. We naturally Think about the king born in Bethlehem. But at the same time, I've been watching A lot of online conversations about something that keeps coming across my screen.

It may not be for you, you may not have seen this, or you may see it a lot, and you, I don't know. but it's Christian nationalism. Have you seen this? And I also see the the hashtag ChristisKing. And I see that a lot on social media.

I follow a bunch of different folks on it, and I just see it. popping up repeatedly and it's usually written in a way that sounds A little bit more. conquest driven than worshipful. And I thought, you know what? I want to see what the temperature of the room is.

I'm going to see where you guys are on this thing, and maybe we'll have a conversation about it. I'd like to learn more about it. I don't want to. Um I'm not an expert at any of this. I'm just asking the question.

but I'd like to look at what this movement is, who shapes it, and what scriptures they use. and then how that aligns with the teaching of Jesus. And after that, let's get your thoughts.

So what is Christian... Nationalism. And Christian nationalism is a belief that a nation's identity and laws should be explicitly Christian, and that the State should in some way enforce or privilege Christianity.

Some versions are mild. Others are a bit more forceful. And I don't know if you know who the main thought leaders are. One of them is Stephen Wolfe, and he's the author of a book called The Case for Christian Nationalism.

So, you know, clearly. This is where his thought process is, and he advocates a Christian civil order. shaped by reform political theory. Douglas Wilson, maybe you've heard of him. Uh he's out in um uh he's a pastor and educator.

I think he's in Moscow, Idaho. And he is advocating mere Christendom. A cultural and civil vision rooted in Christian law and institutions. And then you got Andrew Torba and Andrew. Ice crew I believe.

And they're the authors of Christian Nationalism, a Biblical Gu Biblical Guide for Taking Dominion and Discipling Nations Promoting Explicit Christian Civic Identity. Then you got a guy named Lance. Um wall now, wall now. Uh known for um The minionist Seven Mountain mandate urging Christian influence over major cultural institutions. The scriptures that they use to cite this are often um Psalm 2.8.

Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage. and the ends of the earth your possessions, Proverbs fourteen thirty four, Righteousness exalts a nation. But sin is a reproach to any people. Matthew 28, 18 through 20. All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Go therefore and make disciples of all nations. Romans thirteen one. Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. And these passages proclaim Christ's authority. Not our political authority they do not instruct the Church, though, to seize civil power.

Now Jesus said in John 18, 36, my kingdom is not of this world. The early church had no political power. Yet it transformed the world. Through the presence holiness, sacrifice, and love not legislation.

Now let me go back to this thing where I see on social media like Christ is King. Versus Christ is Lord. And I see that a lot. Christ is King, and they really put, like, you could just almost hear the spiritual testosterone on that. But I noticed that very few say Christ is Lord.

Christ as King sounds triumphant. And he is king. And we are triumphant because of him. But Christ is Lord. It sounds thing it it it it it leans more towards things of surrender, obedience.

repentance and transformation of our own hearts.

Now, my question to you is, does Scripture support the idea that church should take civil power? That the church should take civil power. That's my question to you. How do we reconcile Christian nationalism with Jesus' teaching? And why do some people prefer Christ as King Over the repentant confession.

Christ is Lord. You know that little chorus, he is Lord, he is Lord. He is risen from the dead and he is Lord you know. And and Christ is king, he is. Glory to the new born King That's what we sing at Christmastime.

But these are thoughts I've been having. I thought, you know what? Let's go straight to the people. And see what folks say and what your thoughts are because I confess I don't know, but when I see it, Something about it just kind of it just feels a bit off balance a little bit. And Jesus said, take up your cross.

He said, the world is going to hate you. And you're going to be persecuted for my sake. Don't be surprised at this. They hate me, they're going to hate you. And so I'm trying to Wrestle with that because, and most of you all know my journey.

My journey is. forged out of a great deal of suffering. And I see that in the people that I speak to on my show for caregivers and everything else that I do. are dealing with hard, hard realities. And while I certainly believe that Christian values.

Would benefit this nation greatly, and we have strayed hard. I hear a lot of people calling out Christ as King. But I tell you what I don't hear? What I don't hear Are people crying out? Repent.

That I don't hear. Do you hear that? And I think about 60 million abortions that we've had in this country. How does a nation... Atone for that.

How do we deal with that? That's slaughter on a scale that is hard to really wrap your mind around. And does God just Wave that away? Does that just you know, well, it's you know, it's okay. No, how can that be okay?

And the collective call for our nation. to repent.

Okay. To me, it would seem like that would be the first thing we would do is just to repent. Look at the moral. sewer that we are. and our culture.

And what we've allowed. And so before we go out and try to take civil authority and all those kinds of things it would seem to me more in line with Scripture that we would repent. What are your thoughts on that? And we'll talk some more about it, but 866. 3487884.

86634 Truth. If you want to weigh in on that and the topic, I mean, we don't have to talk about that. If you've got something else that's going on in your life, that's okay. We'd be glad to talk about anything. But If I I'm curious to see what your thoughts are on this whole debate here of Christian Nationalism Christian nationalism.

What is it? And is it something we need to pay attention to? Is it something we need to be invested in? What are the scriptures that go along with it? What are the scriptures that teach against it?

If you feel that way, or if you feel like scripture is leading towards that, But I'm looking at, does Scripture support the idea that the church should take over civil power? Does Scripture support that? And if so, which scriptures? How do we reconcile Christian nationalism with Jesus' teaching? And why do You see a lot of Christ as king, but you don't see much Christ as Lord.

These are questions I'd love for you to talk about with this audience: 866-34-TRUTH-866-3666. 348-7884. When we come back, we'll take your calls. This is Peter Rosenberger. This is Truth Talk Live.

We'll be right back. Truth Talk Live. You're listening to The Truth Network and TruthNetwork.com. Welcome back to Truth Talk Live. This is Peter Rosenberger.

Glad to be with you. Phone lines are 866-34TRUTH 866-348. 78 84 Bucksman. Let's go to Bucksman in Dayton, Ohio. Bucksman.

Good afternoon. How are you feeling today? Oh, it's cold and it's rainy where I am there, Brother Peter. How's everything in your part of the world?

Well, we've had a little bit of a warm spell. We had snow recently, but it's all melted away.

So I'm hoping we're going to have a white Christmas. Um what do you know today? What do you know today? Oh, that's a good question. I like that question there, Brother Peter.

On our topic about Christian nationalism. I like you, Peter. I'm not exactly sure. A working is definition, if you will, brother, of what that term is. Christian nationalism.

It just seems like it's all over the map.

So it's, I'm going to be like you, I'm going to leave that alone. and talk a little bit about what you were saying about the church. uh taking uh civil power uh in our communities So, I will ask you this question, Peter. You're a very intelligent man. North Korea, North Korea.

Can you legally Tell someone the gospel in North. Cool ya serves. I'm not sure that you can. Never been there, but I don't think you can. Your assumption is correct.

You will be incarcerated, and you will be put probably on a labor camp that will be held in a kangaroo court Because you decided to share the gospel with Buskman, if I was a North Korean, most likely. I don't know exactly the policies, Peter, when it comes, like, say, two Americans like you and I, if we were in the confines of North Korea, whether the government could discipline us for such. But that's actually happening, sir, right now.

Well, it's happening in Saudi Arabia. It's happening in other countries as well. You're not allowed to do it. But there's a difference between free speech. and then taking control.

Right, but how does the free speech continue, Peter? Through policy making. Again, policymaking, and I have no issue with that. We have a Bill of Rights, we have freedom of speech, we have all those things rooted in men of faith who did put these things. But Christian nationalism It's a bit.

feels a bit different. And yeah, like I'm setting that aside.

Well, but that's where my headspace is on this, and it's if Christians had the rein to every part of government, would everything be better? Here's the thing. We don't know for sure, Peter.

Now they tried it in the 1700s. Actually they tried it prior with the Puritans. The Puritans left England in the 1600s. 1620 they landed on Plymouth Rock. because the king at the time did not want the Puritans Doing the Bible.

Like the Bible says to do the Bible. King was calling it out. And that's how John Bunyan ended up in prison and he wrote Pilgrim's Progress because he was doing evangelism according to the scriptures, Peter. And they incarcerated him. They said, in England.

They said, you're not allowed to do that. You're not allowed to do that. By the way, they're still doing that kind of nonsense in England. Yes, sir. But the Puritans decided to leave.

That tyranny and said, We'll go over to this, we'll even traverse that big, gigantic ocean. And we will go to a new Land and start a Christian nation. And that's what the Puritans. We're wanting and desiring to do. And they they they were able to to do it to a to a degree.

Well, and I I look at what you're at, the landscape of this thing, and I think, okay, if Christians were in charge of everything.

Well, let's go to a place where Christians are in charge of everything. Let's go to local churches.

Okay. How's that working out? It's not working out at all because so if they can't handle a local church body. Without all this craziness that goes on. Yeah, or the military, or the Department of Health and Human Services, or things such as that.

I think that Christians can wield an enormous amount of influence. And offer biblical counseling, but Jesus told us to do what? What is the great commission? To go and make disciples, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to do everything that I've taught you to do. And lo, I am with you always.

Even until the end of the world.

Now, I'm sorry, I'm driving the bus mobile. That's not for Batham. That's from the top of the bottom. The bottom line is they're two active. uh three active verbs, but uh preach and teach.

Make disciples, preach and teach. Correct. What is the gospel? and then teach, make them disci disciples. make disciples.

So the church's role, the believer's role is to preach the gospel and to make disciples. And You know, and I look at that and I'm thinking, Where is that? And again, I go back to the biggest tale, the biggest telltale sign for all of this for me. Is where's the call, the nationwide call, to repent. Where's that?

That's a whole different subject. Boy, are you on to something there, Brother Peter? Yes, we as a people must show the world. We must be the leaders in showing the world. Watch this, how to repent, because we do not even stop sinning ourselves.

And not only do we not stop sinning, that means we will never repent.

So, how much more will the world never repent of what they do wrong? Obviously, we have to be the leaders. in repenting Starting with our own sin, personals. then church, and then cultural. And we don't even start with our own personal.

You remember the story when Josiah found the law? In scripture. And here he is he found it. It had been shelved, gathering dust somewhere. And they had descended into all types of idolatry.

and and and lascivi lasciviousness And he led the call to repent. He went out and led the nation in a call to repent. That's what I'm looking for based on the biblical model, and I'm not seeing it. And maybe somebody can, maybe a listener right now can explain why there is no nationwide call to repent. Versus a nationwide call for Christians to seize power.

We have plenty of those. Christianity has become so lukewarm, my dear brother. We don't even call out our own sin in our houses, let alone our church. I mean, when was the last time he was in a church service where there was an actual Matthew 18? Uh Doing with someone who had sinned in the church, and the church body knows it.

How many? Do they Do to get, uh, I'm a little scary brain, but the Matthew 18 protocol where we go to him and we say, Hey, Brother Busman, you have sinned.

Okay, I'll repent. Or no, I didn't. Then he gets the two witnesses. When was the last time you've seen the busmans? And I'm using myself.

Um Tit church Disciple church discipline. It doesn't happen anymore, people.

Well, I think we can go. We can go a little deeper. When's the last time you heard preaching on sin? Good call, bro. Good call.

I mean, we don't talk about that. And so I come from the background that sin is a bigger problem than we think it is.

So before we get into all this mess of trying to Well, before we start taking on power. You know, Martin Luther said it beautifully. We need to repent of our repenting. We don't even know how to repent properly. Right.

That's so true, brother. And so I see a lot of people wanting to seize power. But but Christ offered what? He said, take up your throne or take up your cross. Cross.

He said, take up your cross, take up your political office or take up your cross. I mean, how much more clear is the text? then you know take up your Cross. and follow him. He didn't say take up your political office, take up your podium.

He didn't say take up your desk, he said take up your cross. Take up your pulpit. Take up your pulpit. He said, take up your cross. Bucks, good words.

Thank you for calling in and engaging with this. Thank you so much. The number to call 866-34-TRUTH, 866-348-7884. We'll be right back. You're listening to the Truth Network and TruthNetwork.com.

Welcome back to Truth Talk Live. This is Peter Rosenberger. Glad to be with you, 866. three four eight seventy eight eighty four eight six six six six six six thirty four For truth, if you want to be a part of the program, we've been talking about Christian nationalism. I've been seeing a lot of this.

And you just heard Ann Graham Lotts. Um her her Um add here the the show in between these segments. And she's talking about Daniel and putting ashes on him. And you see this call to repentance. throughout all of Scripture.

Repent, repent, repent, repent, repent. But you're not seeing that with Christian nationalism. And you know, you kind of look at I This is just me, but I'm interested in your opinion because I could be wrong on this. I'm going to lay this thing out here. I don't know.

I just see some things that make me raise an eyebrow, kind of like Spock on Star Trek, you know, just raise that eyebrow. But in the first segment, I laid out what Christian nationalism and who are the major voices. And the scriptures that are often used to support it. And I want to build on that now because whether or not this becomes a political movement, what really matters is how Christians think about power. suffering Authority and the kingdom of God.

Um let me Let me make something plain. I didn't take time to do this in the first block, but in the second block, I was talking to Coller. But Christian nationalism is appealing. Because it promises control in a world that feels out of control. Do you get that sense as well?

I want to ask you something directly. And you call in whatever's on your heart about this, but I'd like to hear your thoughts: 866-34-TRUTH, 866-34-878-84. Let me ask you this. Did the early church transform the world? by gaining political power.

or by bearing faithful witness. in suffering. What are your thoughts? Did the early church transform the world by gaining political power? or by bearing faithful witness and suffering.

The men who turned the world upside down. They had no Senate majority. No Supreme Court. No constitutional leverage. No freedom of speech.

No voting block. No Bill of Rights. No social media platform or media platform. They would go to a town Particularly, I'm thinking about the Apostle Paul, he would go to the synagogue. But they would go to wherever people met.

and they would proclaim Christ. And they would suffer. brutally for it. and all but one of the apostles was executed for it. For what they had.

was the Holy Spirit. The Word of God. and a crucified and risen and ascended Saviour. You remember when Paul was talking to the magistrates and Felix, I believe it was, and and he I mean, he was compelling. He said, Man, you Felix the guy said he said to Paul, he said, You're going to make me a you're going to make me a Christian.

And Paul's like, Oh, would that I could Would that that happened? Rome had all the political power. But today Basically Rome is a museum. The kingdom of Christ is still standing, but why? What's different?

I want to read another passage that never appears in Christian nationalist rhetoric, but I find it interesting. Philippians 2:5. through eight Have this mind among yourself, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but he emptied himself. taken the form of a servant He humbled himself by becoming obedient. to the point of death.

Even death on a cross. Let me say that again. He emptied himself, He took on the form of a servant. He humbled himself. Christian nationalism in its strongest form asked the Church to grasp earthly authority.

Christ, by contrast, refused. to grasp it. In fact, I can think of one person who really wanted Christ to grasp national authority. Do you know who that was? It was students.

And he tried to push him.

Well, the other one was Satan. Satan said, Look, I'll give you all of this. You just bow down and worship me. I'll give you all of this. You can have all of this without a cross.

That was the temptation that Satan gave to Jesus. Jesus said now. You worship the Lord thy God holy. Carroll in Indiana. Carol?

Welcome to the program. What do you know today? Just have a comment to make. I think they're trying to rush the mo. I don't know where you people are with your.

Doctrine of eschatology, but I'm a dispensationalist. And I feel that there these people which To me, this reminds me of the old Dominion theology, which was popular in the 70s. If you know the name of Miles Monroe, sadly to say, Carol, I'm old enough to remember that. And even Doctor D. James Kennedy.

He He he had a a vision of Christians being Uh heads of the government But I just want to say Jesus said, My kingdom is not of this world. And I think they're trying to rush the millennium because Jesus is going to be the king. Over the world in the game, but not till. But, Carol, have you ever found that God was able to be rushed? Pardon?

Have you ever found that God was able to be rushed? No, absolutely not. He has his time frame and it time frame and it rules.

Now he's never late, but I've often told the Lord, you're really passing up a lot of great opportunities to be early. And I've offered my consulting services to the Lord many times, particularly with my wife's health. You know, he's never taken me up on that. He has never once taken me up on my consulting services. No, no.

My father had to say that he used to say all the time: he said, God's got this problem, he thinks he's God. Yeah. And I hang on to that, realizing that, you know what, we're not going to rush him, we're not going to tip his hand, we're not going to force his hand to anything. And I think that's a very interesting point that you bring in: that people are wanting to usher in something. But you know who's going to usher it in?

God. Yes, it's going to be the Lord Jesus Christ at the second coming. He's evil ushered in. Not anything that all we're called to do is be obedient. And I keep coming back to this.

What are we called to do? We're called to. You know, sometimes they mostly suffer. Oh, they all be.

Well, we're promised that we're going to suffer, but we're called to preach the gospel and to make disciples. to teach people. And I heard, let me ask you something quick and see what you think of this statement. I heard this the other day. One of the biggest things.

The biggest task for Christians Is to prepare each other to suffer well and and to die well. What do you think of that? What do you think of that statement? I like that very much. And that's one thing that we're trying to eliminate is suffering.

Yeah. A modern Christian. And and you know what? On a scale of 1 to 10, what are their odds of doing that? Zero.

Because all my growth has come from suffering. I haven't had any real real growth or depth without suffering. Tell me about your tell me about some of the suffering you've been through, Carol.

Well, I don't want to extend the conversation. I just had that comment to I I just had that comment.

Well, that's a very good comment, and I appreciate you bringing that up because I think that when you try to force God's hand on anything. That's right. I've I've never found it to be successful.

Well, it has yeah, it hasn't been done yet. It's a very good point. Of all the millennia that we've been through, it hasn't been done yet, and it's not going to be done. I know you don't want to extend the conversation, but I want to ask you one quick question, okay, before I let you go. You said that all your growth has come from suffering.

Are you at the place of Yeah, I would say that. Are you at the place now where you can look back And I remember the Alexander Soltzenitsyn when he was released from the Russian prison after 27 years. He said, Bless you, prison. For the change you made in my life. Did you find that the Holy Spirit brought you to that point as well in your life as you look back on the suffering that God has brought you through?

Absolutely. It was the only way for me to really go forward in my life. I was a spoiled spoiled brat. From childhood. And I had to be cured of all that.

C.S. Lewis says that suffering is God's megaphone to us. He gets our attention, doesn't he?

Well, certainly does. Very, very, very much appreciate you calling in, Carol, and sharing those thoughts. How are things in Indiana today, by the way?

Well, they've been pretty gloomy and cold. It's like we're in the depth of winter out here. But you've had a pretty good football team, Carol. Yes, praise the Lord. Those are, by the way, that's a sentence we haven't said very often on the air that Indiana's had a pretty good football team this year.

Yeah, yeah.

Well, that was God's timing. That's God's mercy. That's God's mercy. Yeah, God's mercy. He reigns on the just and the unjust.

Yeah, that's right. Listen, Carol, thank you so much for the call. I appreciate it. I love your Saturday show. I'm trying to ask you to miss it.

Thank you so much. Thank you so much. All right, we'll see. Such a comfort.

Okay, thank you. Yes, ma'am.

Well, I appreciate that. By the way, she's referring to the Hope for the Caregiver program that I do on the weekends on this network for family caregivers. And this is a tough time for family caregivers, by the way, this time of year. And I want to be sensitive to that to those of you who are going through this as you go into the holiday season. I have spent every major holiday in.

patient at the hospital with my wife. In fact, I've got an article that's going to be out this in two weeks. I write weekly for Blaze Media. And it's going to be about a caregiver Christmas. And if you go out to my Facebook, Uh, at Hope for the Caregiver or the Hope for the Caregiver Facebook group, you can actually join that group or to my website, hopeforthecaregiver.com, and you can sign up for an e-learning.

I'll send you when that comes out. I think you will find it meaningful because it's a tough time of year for people who are dealing with sickness, or maybe there was an empty chair at Thanksgiving, or maybe at Thanksgiving you saw. The decline in a loved one. And now you're talking about it amongst the family there saying, you know, mom didn't look that great. Dad's not doing too well.

That's what my program is for, to help strengthen family caregivers, to help you stay strong and healthy as you take care of someone who is not hopeforthecaregiver.com. We're going to continue this conversation more as we come back, and I'd like to hear your thoughts again. 866-34-TRUTH, 866-348. 7884. This is Peter Rosenberger.

This is Truth Talk Live, and we will be right back. Truth Talk Live. You're listening to the Truth Network and TruthNetwork.com. Welcome back to Truth Talk Live. This is Peter Rosenberger.

Glad to be with you. The number is 866-34-TRUTH-866-348. seventy eight eighty four eight six six three four eight. 7884 talking about Christian Nationalism today. We're looking at this movement that is, there's a strong undercurrent going on of this, maybe more than you realize.

And it's like our first caller called in at the beginning of the program and said, you know, it's not something I'm. All that familiar with, but I think we need to get familiar with it. I think that we need to speak with clarity from scriptures. What does the scripture say? You know, that's the first thing you do.

There's a wonderful interview if you ever get a chance. To go out and watch Woody Allen interviewing Billy Graham. You ever seen this? You can see it on YouTube, it's out there. It is astonishing.

I mean, you would have never thought these two would sit down and have a conversation. Woody Allen interviewing Billy Graham And Woody Allen's trying to be snarky and cute, and he has this shtick that he's doing, and You know, his routine and stuff. He's trying to kind of catch Billy Graham on a few things and make sure that, you know.

Okay. gets his points in. And Billy Graham was just unflappable. and his answer was always Well, the Scriptures say It says in Scripture the Scriptures say, the Word of God says, the Scriptures say, and it was not about his opinion, it was always grounded in what does the Scripture say? And when the um When the Reformation happened, One of the biggest challenges that was going on at that time was biblical Illiteracy.

So many people Couldn't read the Bible because it was written either in Latin or Hebrew and Greek, but it was not written in the common language. and so only the educated could read it. It didn't mean that people were illiterate that they couldn't read at all. They just couldn't read that language. They kept it all in that language.

And when the Gutenberg Press came out, And that changed everything because they were able to disseminate the scriptures, translated, and when Wycliffe translated in English and Luther translated, I think his first book he did was Galatians into German, and the common people were able to see it for the first time. And the church that was in power at the time, and by the way, if you want to get a feel for what Christian nationalism would look like. We've already had that before when the Roman Catholic Church was in charge of everything. How did that work out? I mean, you tell me.

Um And did the theology stay pure? Did the doctrine stay? Holy But when, and they did not want the people to be able to have the Word of God because they weren't educated enough to. to read it and and understand it and so forth was the general thought.

Well, now we have the Bible translated in so many different languages worldwide. We haven't gotten all of them yet, but most of them. And it's readily available. How many Bibles do you have in your home? And how many of them have dust on 'em?

We have the same problem. We have biblical illiteracy. We have churches in America on every street corner. But do we have biblical literacy? Do people know what the Bible says?

We have a lot of people who have the. The top 40 scriptures that they like. Here's a scripture. Here's not a scripture. Here's what people say.

God loves you just as you are. Is that true? God loves you unconditionally. Is that true? I mean, think about it.

And where does that God will never give you anything that you can't handle? Is that true? Is that in Scripture? See what I mean by biblical literacy? And if you don't read it Guess what happens?

You're easily led astray. Thy word have I hid in my heart that I may not sin against thee. Thy word is a lamp unto my feet. and alight into my path Now, here's another scripture: It was good that I was afflicted, that I might learn thy statutes. It was good that I was afflicted.

Carol talked about that in The Last Block. about what's suffering. that God uses suffering Yeah. Teach us what? Teaches, number one, our great need.

that we need a savior. It was good that I was afflicted, that I might learn thy statutes. I don't hear that coming from the Christian Nationalist movement. Christian nationalism in its strongest form asked the Church to grasp earthly authority. Christ refused to grasp it.

You chose a cross. Christian Nationalism talks about Ruling nations, Christ washed feet Christian nationalism dreams about influence. Christ chose obedience. How many of you all think that you need influence to get things done? And where do you support that in Scripture?

Versus obedience. Because God will turn the head of the king whichever way he wants. He remembers the story of Nehemiah. If you don't know it, go back and read it. I'm not going to tell you that story.

I'm going to let you go back and read it. and see what happened. What kingdom are we trying to build? His? Or ours.

What is a shining example? Of Christians running everything All the power, civil power. in an exemplary fashion.

Something to think about, isn't it? Weakness is the place where Christ reveals power. Not on the throne of Caesar, But on the cross, imagine Paul. beaten, shipwrecked, in prison. saying, If only we had taken over the Roman senate, things would be different.

Paul ever say that? If only we had taken over the Senate Paul's message was I will boast all the more gladly my weakness.

So that the power of Christ may rest upon me. This is the bigger issue I'm driving at. Christian nationalism assumes that the primary problem in society is bad laws. But scripture teaches that the primary problem in society. Is the human heart.

Your thoughts on that? Would you agree? You don't change the heart through legislation. You change it.

Well, you don't change it at all. I don't change it at all. It's ch the heart is changed through regeneration. Through the Gospel it's a heart of stone. made to a heart of flesh.

We are dead in sin. and I don't care what kind of laws we put on the books. We're going to break every single one of them. People say, what about free will? Yes, we have free will.

And you know what our free will wants to do? It wants to sin. And it will send every chance it gets to. And so that's why we battle that with the new nature that we have. through the regenerative work of Christ.

I am very much for Christians influencing our culture. But I'm very much opposed to Christians confusing influence with dominion. Salt influences. Light reveals. Yeast.

permeates quietly. These are things we're called to be. Salt doesn't seize the table. Light does not blind the room. Yeast doesn't conquer the baker.

Christ's metaphors are about presence, not domination. He alone has dominion. But I've also noticed something else in the online rhetoric. There's enormous enthusiasm for the idea of Christ reigning over the nations, but very little enthusiasm for Christ reigning over the nations. Over.

Me. You always say that again? There's a lot of enthusiasm for Christ reigning over the nations. I don't see a whole lot of enthusiasm for Christ reigning. Over.

Me. People love the majesty as Christ as King. I love the hymns of it. All hail the power of Jesus' name. Let angels prostrate fall and crown him, Lord of all.

But they. Avoid the discomfort, though. If you noticed. When it comes to obedience. and repentance.

And humbling ourselves. Lordship means my pride is crucified, my bitterness is confronted, my politics. are corrected. My desires are reordered. My rights are surrendered.

I've noticed that Christian nationalism asks, How do we rule? But I can't help but notice that Jesus asked, How do you serve? I see Christian nationalism saying, We need earthly power. Jesus says, My power is made perfect in weakness. Christian nationalism says, Christ is king, let's conquer.

Jesus says, Take up your cross. and follow me. We're out of time here. But I hope this has been a thought-provoking Time to talk about this issue. Let's talk about it some more.

I think it's important that we delve into this. And most important word that we could say to our society. The most important word we can say to ourselves. Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand, and that is Truth Talk Live. This is Peter Rosenberg.

We'll see you next time.

Okay.