Helping The Lost

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This is kind of a great thing, and I'll tell you what. Where pop culture, current events, and theology all come together. Speak your mind. And now, here's today's Truth Talk Live host. Good afternoon, and welcome to Truth Talk Live.

This is your host, Russ East. I'm sitting in for my friend Stuart. Du Epperson. Today's episode, we have a very somber topic, but it's a topic that we must discuss. We must continue.

to grieve with the body of Christ. We must continue the work. of you know who I'm talking about, of our friend. Charlie Kirk, whom we lost tragically this last week. And so on today's Truth Talk Live, we're going to continue.

This discussion, I have my friend Dr. Corey Miller. He's the president for Rachio Christie. It is a ministry that is on college campuses all across America. Corey, I want to ask you a question here.

How should should Christians Process. The loss of Charlie Kirk.

Well, Russ, thanks for having me on. First, I would say grieve. It is something definitely we should all be grieving about as humans, not just as Christians. But in the processing of this, we need to figure out why this happened. What was it that drove the shooter to do this?

And we're seeing a series of these. shooters that are predominantly coming from An ideological motivation That is data-driven. People have a propensity to Become violent against people that hold traditional values on marriage, sexuality. and other things like that, even though that is the history of the world until fifteen minutes ago, you know, in terms of the trans issue that came up uh right before his being shot. But I think we need to understand that what is downstream is politics and culture.

What is upstream is education. And at the apex is the university. And so my book that's coming out right now. Happens to be very timely and is endorsed on the first endorsement by Charlie Kirk's. uh TPUSA Faith Division head Lucas Miles.

Called the Progressiveness Education of America, confronting the cultural revolution from the classroom. your community. We need to see what's happening in the universities, in the education system. Because this stuff doesn't happen in a vacuum. It's coming from a source.

Mm. Thank you for that. Thank you. As we continue to talk about this, I know that Roshio Christie is right here in Utah. We're so grateful that you're here and you're in North Carolina.

You're all over. How can people Effectively be involved with Rashio Christi. Let's just name the different ways, all the different ways. prayer support, financial support, but then volunteers and churches. I mean, take this time to really share with people how they can g get involved.

Yes, we need extra funding to get boots on the ground on the field at these university campuses. We need bodies of people who are qualified to do evangelism and can be taught Christian apologetics because We are a special ops ministry that focuses on apologetics evangelism. at the most influential institution. Shaping civilization, the university. And people can go on to our website to look at it.

I would advocate going to racio ratio.link. slash PMA For Progressive Miss Education of America. They can look at our product line, our booklets on hot topics. They can look at how to get involved from a donation. Or a staffing perspective, they can look at how we can bring added value to parents, pastors.

uh Christian schools and so forth. Racio dot link at uh forward slash p Yeah. Excellent. Thank you so much. I want to give you an opportunity right now if you'd like to ask a question.

just the way Charlie Kirk would do, except we're going to do this over our Truth Network app. Through our radio network. You might be listening in North Carolina or Utah or in Lynchburg, Virginia. You might be listening in Ohio, in Dayton, or Toledo. Give us a call right now, our call screener.

We've got somebody on the line right now. And so we I want to uh invite Matt. My friend Matt to go ahead and share With whatever's on your heart, Matt, my old friend. and continued friend. And Matt is going to just jump on with the conversation here.

So Matt. Welcome to Truth Rock Live. Hey. Great, great. Hey, how are you doing?

Doing well, thank you, thank you. Got you on the on the line here with Dr. Corey Miller. And Corey will maybe just come right back here in just a moment. Uh they believe he just got disconnected, but If you could call back, that would be great.

But yeah, please. Ask a question or comment about the events that have been taking place. And move on to the similar background, sure. I think there's I think we could both agree there's there's quite a division in in America today. And um And that division, I think, is largely stoked off the flames that We see from people like Charlie Kirk.

Um that You know while they might claim to be defending their ideology, I think it I think it might be interesting to hear from what people outside the Christian bubble think. and heal and Based off of Charlie Kirk's words. I think. I think it's important also to note that You know Most of us outside the Christian bubble. We condemn what happened.

We would say that gun violence is Not the answer. Um and I think that largely known from from the right that the left Have a Uh A n a you know, a view of gun violence as as bad and that we like to reform our gun gun violence. But I think it's also important to note that Charlie Kirk died in the world that he himself advocated for. Um And I think it's it's important to not whitewash. the talking points that Charlie Kirk Would would would make.

It's very uh It's very sad to know that somebody had amassed such a wealth and a living off of pushing people who already lived in in the margins. back into the shadows. I think that's something that I wanted to say. I wanted to. Make sure it was heard from a From a radio station that may not share my viewpoints, but I'd love, but I'd also came here because I want to learn.

I want to learn. what your viewpoints are and where you two stand on the issue. Sure, sure. Thank you. Corey, uh to To kind of uh summarize, I I think you are disconnected but you got back on.

Would you want to ask Matt some clarifying questions about what he was saying? If I could summarize and Matt tell him if I'm right or not. you kind of feel like maybe some of the words that were used by Charlie Kirk Which sometimes would sometimes kind of Um uh It was kind of they were flammable. They were flammable words, and it kind of brought about.

Some M more more heat than light or something like that? Would would you say something along those lines? I would say that that's a bit of a A bit of a light of what I would. I think if we're if we were really truly Thought of Charlie Kirk. And his legacy and the things that he said.

Of course. I think of course. He would stoke the flames of division. Of course, he is controversial. I think that's what made him so popular.

That's what built his wealth.

So yes, I would one hundred percent agree with that.

Okay, just wanted to try to summarize that. Those thoughts there. Corey. Would you like to just correspond? Uh you know, yeah, sure.

Yes. Matt, I lectured on the same campus five years ago with liberal atheist philosopher Peter Bogozian, and we were discussing viewpoint diversity, the death of intellectual diversity in the university. on the same campus. And then we also lectured on the campus where Tyler Robinson was apparently radicalized at Utah State. And there, A leftist group wrote a letter to the President trying to cancel us.

for being logical fascists, a typical hyperbolic and rhetorical term. Stay with us. Folks who believe traditional things. Hold that thought. Hold that thought, Corey and Matt.

Stay on the line with us. We have a quick break, so stay on the line, and we'll be right back. You're on Trip Talk Live, please stay with us. Thank you so much. We'll be right back.

Truth talk line. Welcome back to Truth Talk Live. This is Ruff East. I'm your host for today's episode. where we're having a good discussion just the way Charlie Kirk would have done.

We're going to continue this conversation between my friend Matt. and my friend Dr. Corey Miller. Continue, please.

So yes, so Matt, I was saying that I've spoken on both those campuses. They tried to cancel us from the campuses, even though he, a liberal atheist but me, a conservative Christian, We're only talking about free speech and viewpoint diversity, which has been killed at the universities.

So, you know, Voltaire said something like: I may disagree with what you say, but it would defend at the death your right to say it. Stalin said, by contrast, ideas are more powerful than weapons. We don't allow our enemies to have weapons, so why should we let them have ideas? That's the heart of cancel culture. And this canceled culture has gotten to the point where, according to data from Rutgers University, There is a propensity on a large number of people on the left, not on the right.

for assassination culture.

So it is ironic that they are ones that want gun control and yet When George Floyd dies, they go burn down the cities of America for a year. The Christians didn't do this. They haven't done this since Charlie Kirk died. You look at the violence from abortion. You look at all the church and school shootings.

All of these things virtually are coming from the left, and there might be some people on the right that are doing it. But I would challenge you, Matt, to name one conservative Christian who is a follower of Jesus. Give me a name. Just one name is fine. That is doing that.

I find, you know, uh I I don't know you. I don't I don't know your your You know, where your ideology comes from, but I find it. Almost humorous to say that but then also forget what had happened on january sixth. I think this part of the To the main point that I made in the very beginning, which 'Cause there is division on both sides. There is there is this feeling of Uh Disenfranchisement has on both sides.

Both sides don't feel like they're being heard. We're We're in a society where The poor are getting poorer and the rich are getting richer. And We have these commentators who are saying things that are stoking the flames. for hatred. And I and I and I know I know You want to talk about Um you know, freedom of speech.

But and I and I hate to put that that fire out, but You and I probably agree. on the freedom of speech. We agree that we should be able to talk these ideas out. I agree that Charlie Kirk shouldn't have been shot. I agree that this was a devastating event.

Um and and and nobody In their right mind, they would say that they want this to happen. And I think A response. From the left. is because of the The toxicity and The So Matt Matt, what is what is toxic that Charlie Kirk or conservative Christians say? Is it is it that we believe that marriage is one man and one woman or that the transgender Idea is Not real?

What is toxic about what we say to get people to assassinate us? Because in the Rutgers study, if you haven't seen it, I can definitely answer that question for you. Over half of those who self-identified. has left of the center, 56%. report that if someone murdered Donald Trump, they would at least be justified uh and fifty two percent i think it was for elon musk so We're not w even when you bring up January 6th, the only person murdered on J6 was a Trump supporting female military person.

and one million dollars damage was done. $2 billion.

Sorry, $2 billion. I think $2 billion. I think we can go back and forth for quite a while because, like I said, I agree with you. I don't have a conservation off the top of my mind. I know that there was one in Minnesota who.

went into a home of a Other I I can't remember her name, but he murdered her and her husband.

So Minnesota congressman, that's right. He wasn't a Christian. If he was, he wasn't practicing, he was a hypocrite, right? But the point that I'm making is that The point See here's the thing, the point that I'm making here. Is that This goes back and forth, right?

Both sides are fed up, and both sides. are showing violence. But the data point to The most violence is showing up from the right. I think it was like zero if it was like 0.07%. But mass shootings are transgender.

Address that bogus statistic because I know what you're talking about. Excuse me, and what it what it does is it is it puts people on the right like the KKK, and yet everybody knows that the KKK was started by Democrats. And what it doesn't address is that school shootings aren't called political. In nature, and so it doesn't include those. And more importantly than anything.

Even if you find people on the quote unquote right, maybe they call them neo-Nazis, and I wouldn't say it's right. You're not going to find anyone that's conservative Christian there. That is not unimportant for our case. I really think one that is Look, I really think that that is Naive to say. I think it's naive to say.

Because as you know, as a Christian, you know that humans are sinners, right? You would agree with that premise. Sure. Just give me a name, just then you know.

So do Christians have the capability of assassinating somebody? Yeah, but who is doing it? Give me one.

Okay, there you go. Let's rattle off of that. That's what I'm trying to say. And I know you probably came prepared. I came because I was Calling a friend.

Yeah, I wrote a book and talk about a book on it. I know you wrote a book and I'm walking my dog. That's the difference.

So yeah, I can't give you a name. Yeah. Let me just jump in really quick. I want to make sure this is just a technical question. Um do any of you guys have your radios on that might be causing a little inter interference with uh The technical quality of the Negative.

Okay, same with you, Matt. No, no, I don't have any radio.

Okay, okay.

Sorry about that. Continue on. Actually, I want to bring on Morgan, if I could. Morgan. Are are you there?

Morgan is is um living here in Utah. Morgan, are you there? Hey, yes, I'm right here.

Okay, we're gonna kind of just do a do a little shift here for a minute. And uh, Matt and Corey, please stay on the line. But we've we have Morgan on, and Morgan. You're a part of Racio Christi. Are you you're a student?

at uh a a university in Utah, I believe, or you're on staff with Rashio Christie. Yes, I'm just on staff with Rashi Christie. I'm one of the assistant directors. I recently came on back in May. I interned a little bit last year.

This is my first time living out here in Utah and just wanted to dive deep into theology and having conversations with students on campus. And so yeah, I found myself at Utah Valley, uh with Rashio.

Okay.

Well, okay. Thank you for being on Shroud Talk Live today. I I just wanna tread it. If I can somehow uh bring you into this conversation. Switch meeting Dr.

Miller. and with my friend Matt. Uh we're talking about some pretty heavy deep things. things that Charlie Kirk would have been dealing with all throughout his life and he'd be doing it today. I'm sure, and uh we'll try to try to continue that that dialogue and discussion, but Were you there?

Um day that That that the Charlie Kirk Kirk sorry. Kirk was assassinated or or Were you just You were. Yes, sir. I was. I was there.

I was in right smack dab in the middle of the crowd. Um when it all when it all happened. Can you share a little bit about that? That terrible day, and maybe just shed some light from your perspective as to. What kind of you know, rhetoric Charlie Kirk would use and how did it it did it affect Yeah.

And we'll just just share. Yeah. Uh right now About what Charlie, you know, did in his ministry and his work. and maybe even some of the more personal things that took place if you'd like to share with our listeners about that terrible day. Yeah, yeah.

So I mean, I remember it's just another ordinary day.

So our club tables every Monday through Thursday. And so we were just showing up for another day to have conversations with students. We ended up not having a table, so we figured, hey, we'll just go ahead and join the crowd. Um, it was about eleven thirty or so when we joined the crowd. That was me and my director and my director and his family.

We're there. He had some of his. Younger children. Morgan's off that spot. Morgan, hold that button.

We have a break. We have kicks. Please stay with us. We're just getting started.

So sorry we had to do a hard break. We'll be right back though here on Truth Talk Live. We're talking about some very, very important topics. Stay with us, we'll be right back. Truth Talk Live and the Blue Day.

Welcome back to Truth Talk Live. This is Russ East. I'm your host for today's episode. I want to asked Morgan who was there When Charlie Kirk was assassinated to continue. It was about 11.30 in the morning.

Go ahead and please continue. Yeah, yeah, so it was about 11:30 in the morning. We were just sitting there, all of us, that included some of our students. These are active students. I'm not currently a student, just a Just work with Roshi or Christie and Some of our students, our director and his children, his 10, 11-year-old girl was there, his 18-year-old daughter was there with us.

We were just kind of waiting for it to start. We had people cheering in the crowd. Yeah, they were shouting. Things like, you know. Charlie Kirk, or they would shout, you know, just USA, like just kind of very patriotic type.

Um language And he wouldn't come out, and eventually Charlie Kirk did come out. He answered. A couple questions we had a hard time hearing. I think that was the strangest thing, is we were having a hard time hearing him answer questions and Hear the person asking the question. And I think that created some confusion for those of us that were a little farther back.

In the crowd.

Next thing you know, we hear this loud pop. Um and it was only once. That was also weird too. A lot of us thought it was firecracker, so we immediately Quite a few of us turned around to look behind us because that's where the noise is coming from. And when we had turned around, by then the people, I guess, on the front had kind of alerted everybody that this is something serious, and we all.

at the same time duck down together. And we're all just kind of sitting there. On the ground duct. I mean, it's like over 3,000. I think they were estimating 3,500 people out there.

All 3,500 of us were on the ground. And it was just like dead silence. Um very very of an eerie feeling.

Next thing you know, I think people started to realize that Charlie Kirk wasn't in his chair anymore, and everybody started running. Um by God's grace. on a weird off thing, I didn't put my contact in to that day. And so I physically from afar couldn't see Charlie Kirk down. Um I didn't see The blood or anything, but I have friends and students and my director and his daughter that vividly remember.

every bit of that tragic moment. And I just remember a lot of us running out I remember one girl, I passed by one girl in the corner and she was hunkering down and she was just saying, Is this real? Is this real? Is this real? And I just felt overwhelmed in the moment of one, the Lord, like the Holy Spirit, is so present and active, and you don't realize in moments like this, but He.

Definitely was present with me, the Lord was, and He said, Everything's going to be okay. I need you to stop with this girl and just hold her hand. And so I proceeded to hold her hand. I mean, her eyes are super big. She is just hyperventilating, just can't even catch her breath.

And she's just holding my hand. Um, as we're just waiting, I mean, no more shots were going off. I think that was what we were waiting for. We were waiting. We were almost basically like sitting ducks in that amphitheater, and we were waiting for more to go off, but none ever did.

And so I ended up just You know, finished holding her hand and she got up and was ready to move. Her friends kind of met with her and they moved along, and I ended up just. quickly getting to the parking bed, getting in my car, and driving home before they locked. Mark the whole campus down. Um but it was It was a lot.

It was overwhelming. It was. I definitely was taking some time to catch my breath hours, hours later. Um Just 'cause of the, you know, the adrenaline. Yeah, yes, of course.

Well, thank you for sharing those very personal and horrific details of of of what happened that day. Let me just Pose a topic here to kind of shift a little bit from what Corey and Matt were talking about, but I want to try to. Bring Morgan and Matt. together on a conversation. Matt, could we just talk about maybe with Morgan?

Could you ask Morgan a question about the identity of who Jesus is? Can we talk about. Jesus a little bit because I would be remiss. As you know, I've known you for twenty years or so. Yeah.

C can we talk about that a little bit as as to And and maybe Morgan Morgan could could Could maybe Pose a question as to the identity of Jesus. One of the things that Charlie Kirk did, I think, really well was to define things. He would give definitions of things. And so So Jesus said, unless you believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.

So So could we could we have that conversation right now? Um Matt, could you ask a question that might be a little challenging for Morgan? Um just about maybe something about Christ that maybe you've been You've been wrestling with, or that you would like to get some more information. Maybe you have not been given a satisfying answer about who Jesus is. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I and and let me just start by saying, Morgan, I'm so sorry that you experienced what you experienced, and I know that. you know, gun violence everywhere is is Something that we don't want to see. We don't want to experience. And so For that, I just want to say, you know, I'm so, so sorry that you had to witness that and you had to experience that.

In terms of In terms of the question that I have for you about. This identity of Jesus. Um What would you say Um Charlie Kirk is, as we all know, is known for being controversial. known for Um inciting Um Uh you know, speech that that Definitely push people who already felt marginalized back into the shadows. Um So I'm curious as as to What am I missing about Charlie Kirk that represents Jesus to so many because I didn't see that in Charlie Kirk.

I didn't see this whitewashed version that People are portraying him now in Christian circles.

So maybe help me understand. That aspect. Uh Charlie Kirk that I missed. Yeah, um I think my My first thought to even know what Charlie did, I mean, I would watch him. As much as I would see clips just come across my YouTube and my Facebook and everything like that.

Constantly, it's always set up in this dialogue of: hey, the student comes up and asks a question. And because the student asks the question, Charlie gives the answer. And so even if the answer isn't something that maybe the student wanted or expected or Yeah, I anticipated for it to come across the way it did. I think, especially. Especially the way we do things at Racio, we're super big on asking questions.

So if there is a question that's asked, whether from the student side, Or from our side, You know, like the person who's saying it has the right to their answer.

however they want.

So I think for me, like having that background of like, yeah, I just kind of sit into this role of, yeah, if I'm asked a question by a student. Am I getting an answer? Regardless. I think I do. We talk about being salt.

Like, yes, there is an amount of seasoning to your words that, like, hey, know your audience. Right. Of course. I've watched Charlie Kirk and kind of what everybody's seeing him as this hero. The Jesus figure that I follow that I know of The whole reason why I follow him is because, like you said earlier, I am a sinner.

And I will do Wrong. Because of my human condition, but because I have the Holy Spirit, I have the ability. To act against my flesh.

So, I think while I may do things that aren't kosher as a Christian. You can at least look at my life and go, hey, there is this upward trajectory of I'm becoming more like Christ.

So I guess in defense of Charlie Kirk, the only thing that I would say is like if, you know, him being a true believer in the Jesus Christ that I know, that it doesn't matter, it does matter. Knowing that you've repented and put your faith and trust in Jesus looks like Hey, my life is going to look like this upper trajectory. Um and I'm not working this upward trajectory because of God's going to love me more or Jesus is going to love me more. if I do these things or if I send less, It's no, he already loves me the way I am right now. And therefore, I have the freedom now to walk out kindness and love and faith and gentleness.

Would I say that Charlie Kurtz I don't know, go ahead. If you have something go go ahead, go ahead, please please please finish that, please. And then I have a quick question. Yeah, so for, you know, if Charlie Kirk and I didn't watch every single video, so to say I have this. From the time he started his career to the time he you know, un unfortunately it it ended.

Um I don't have a clear picture, okay, of Well, this moment that we got a five-second clip of, it sounds like he's saying this really hateful thing. Win a rally, maybe. I don't know, you know, by default, maybe he had a bad day. Maybe he woke up that morning. And it didn't come off as nicely as it should have.

But did the next interview he had, or did the next response to his next question was that kinder? I don't know. I think it's just this. Not that I'm trying to make excuses for how people feel about Charlie's rhetoric and maybe the things that he said, but I do think there is something to say the very nature of a Christian is someone who is sinful. but we have a Savior who has sinned less.

And therefore, because of that, I am Ultimate, my ulterior motive is to love Jesus the best I know how, and that's going to be an upward trajectory, and every day is not going to be perfect. I want to hear what Corey has to say to this question, but I'd like to just jump in really quick. Matt. I I would like to just say that Jesus, of course. when he was interacting with Like the the Pharisees There were there were times, contextually, depending on who he's talking to, He was very direct.

He was very much. He would call. things as they were and and and these these Pharisees were bringing about a form of religion that was all man-made. It was not It was not Following those things from the Old Testament. It was not Adh adhering to The principles Making Uh the the temple a place of prayer.

Jesus turned those temples uh turned those tables over in the temple.

So Just a couple examples I think where Yes, Jesus would be very kind and and dur and and and calm and things like with the woman at the well. but also with the Pharisees, for instance, I mean, he was. pretty strong. You know, he was pretty strong in his words, but he was he was truthful. And like I I went uh to uh I had a a C T scan in my heart.

And um and I I was I was told that there there might be something going on there, and so There there's a sense of being direct that I want people to be direct with me. Um not not rude. But I think sometimes, you know, sometimes we can be in denial. And so we need someone to be direct. Corey, what would you say to Matt's question?

Do you mind if I just say one quick thing on that? Because I think. You know, I agree. I think that Christ was direct in what he what he said, especially to the Pharisees. Um But I I think let's be realistic.

I think. You know, Charlie Kirk said that he Would question whether or not to get on a plane if the pilot was black. You know, I think these things go beyond. Just being direct. And so I just wanted to.

to make that note and say, you know, there are things that, yes, are Okay, we're going to go to the next one. Yeah. Until we get Matt. Are you still there?

Okay.

Okay, we've got we've got break.

Okay, still there great.

Okay, great. Everybody stay right where you are. We've got one more segment left, so we have a break. We have one more segment. Stay with us.

You're listening to Truth Talk Live, listening to Corey Miller. Morgan and my friend Matt. We're having some good discussions about the trailer. Kurt had many discussions. Stay with us here on Truth Talk Live.

We'll be right back. Truth taught. Welcome back to New Talk Live. We're continuing our discussion. Matt.

My friend had asked a question about The characteristics of Charlie Kirk and how he would interact with people, and Jesus. We were discussing that.

So Corey. Um I know Matt you were trying to finish a thought. But I think for sake of time here, can you finish your thought real quick, Matt? And then I want Corey to respond, and then I've got. Uh Pastor Lauren Pancritz, are you on the phone with us uh on the line right now, Lauren?

I am, yeah.

Okay, great. And you were there at Uni the university uh Utah Valley University as well on that fateful day. Uh and we want you to share in just a moment some of your experiences there. But Matt, go ahead, finish that thought if you would, please. No, my thoughts all finished.

I made what I wanted to say earlier.

Okay.

Super Corey, go ahead and please respond to Matt, if you would. Sure. I would just challenge anyone listening to get the context around the statements that social media puts out when they rip things from context. I doubt the that Um he really ever said those words. And if he did, you need to have the context.

uh surrounding them because The fact of the matter is, this is the reason that I was getting at with my point. The reason why you don't have very many, if high, Hardly any Statistics. On the right of conservative Christians doing this, and you've got a load of people on the left. Is not because the people on the right are better people and the people on the left are worse people. It's because followers follow and those who are truly followers of Jesus believes that God is the reality, the ultimate reality, and He Provides the sanctity of human life so that all lives matter, black, white, and polka dot.

And if we are followers of Christ, we believe that. On the other hand, As I was just reading philosopher Peter Singer's book, the most uh formal uh probably famous philosopher in moral philosophy in the United States, the unsanctifying of human life. His point is that if there is no God, there is no sanctifier and therefore no sanctity of human life. On the left, they are more secular than religious. And that probably accounts for a low view of human life and a low threshold.

Why, even if Charlie Kirk said that, other people on the left say equally as worse, if not worse things. But neither of those should be. canceling someone's life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I agree. I would 100% agree with you.

Please look up. Charlie Kirk and the things that he has said. Look up when he taught, like, see what he says about Martin Luther King. See what he says about. the Civil Rights Act.

See what he says about those things. I I please, please, please look them up. Do not take my word for it.

Okay, super. Excellent, excellent. Uh let let's bring Pastor uh Lauren Pastor Lauren, would you share with our listeners a little bit about your experience there at the Utah Valley University uh and it how it impacted you at the at the uh the event with Charlie Kirk. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it was a traumatic day, I can tell you that.

Mm. I uh I had uh not had a ton of exposure, but you know, I had I'd watched some of his videos uh here and there. And you know how social media goes when you watched a few of those videos, they start slowing your algorithm a little bit. And so I've seen a few more. And usually what I see are.

Just little snippets of his conversations with people, and it often made me kind of wonder: like, how would this look in real life, or how would this look in real time? Is this just these little are these little context of Conversations out of are they cut wrong? Are they out of you know context and things? And so I always kind of thought, man, it'd be really cool to. if you ever came to Utah to go to go to one of those events.

And so Uh when I heard that he was coming, I um decided to make plans to to go. And um Uh was was uh Kind of in a sea of people. I was probably about 15 yards away from the front. Just I got there. Actually, I thought the news report said it was supposed to be there from 10 to noon.

At least that's what I thought.

So I got there kind of early. Uh I was there a little bit before ten and just kind of waiting um Waiting, the event didn't start till noon, and so I was there getting a little extra sun that day. But um Met some great people, I met some people from Rossio Christie that were there, and had some good conversations with other folks that were just kind of standing around waiting. Um But it seemed like the crowd was the crowd, anyway, was several thousand people. I think they were probably mostly Charlie Kirk fans because when he'd come out, everyone would be.

cheering and and uh And exuberant, you know, and the first question that came was. You guys may have already gone over all this, but um But it was actually a pretty interesting one just from my perspective because it was on uh Mormonism, the person was challenging him and And made the claim First question that that Mormonism is more historically accurate than Protestant Christianity. And That was a That made for some interesting dialogue and and actually provided Charlie with the opportunity to Um Speak about archaeological evidence. For Christianity, or even at least challenge that Mormonism doesn't have. A lot of archaeological evidence of the Nephites and Ramanites, things like that, but then also talking about the historical credibility of the core tenets of Christianity like the resurrection.

And so I was pretty heartened by that. I thought, man, we're. We're just minutes into this thing and He's already had the opportunity to talk about Jesus and talk about the resurrection. And sort of some of the some of the reasons why it's reasonable to Um to to to believe and to trust Christ and so Uh I was yeah, I was really uh Feeling pretty grateful for that. And it was just after that question, you know, there were people in the crowd kind of.

Trying to get the questioner to move on because there was kind of murmuring, largely LDS crowd there, and I could hear people kind of around us saying, We need to move on. This is not. This is not helping our cause. This isn't going good. And we need to get on to the next one, and they were kind of trying to move the conversation forward.

So So, yeah, he took the next question, and that's when the shooter.

Okay.

Shot. Yeah. That with us, Lauren. And I want to, as we're kind of getting towards the end of our program today, we're going to be a little restricted on time for this next question, but I want to ask Pastor Lauren. Could you expound a How about this thing called the gospel, the good news.

There's there's some bad news and there's some good news and then For Matt, but might want to respond, or maybe another caller, 866-348-7884. Uh we can we can try to bring you on. But um I w I w I don't want this program to end without Boron Sharing the gospel, would you just share that message for us in a succinct kind of way? Oh, absolutely. Man, and it's a great question.

I think, you know, I saw in our own church on Sunday, there's a lot more people coming. A lot of extra people, I think, coming to church right now because they're asking that question of all the crazy things that are going on in the world. Is there some good news somewhere? I think Bible, the biblical narrative, what God reveals to us, what we see there is that we're all accountable to our Creator who created us. We have all, in our own choices, made choices and had thoughts, and actions, and attitudes, behaviors that.

have not honored God and The Bible tells us that those wages of that sin, that's what sin is, is rebellion against God and his ways. As we've sinned, we find ourselves separated from God. And while we can't fix that, God and His love for us. Um Has sent his Son to bear the full penalty of our sins on the cross so that as we Turn from our life that we're living in rebellion to Him and put our hope and our trust in Jesus, we have. an eternity with him to look forward to.

The good news is that while we're Lost in rebellion, we're not irredeemable. God and his love for us has. Redeemed us. He has given us New life, he makes us a new creature, he makes us a new creation. We have Um We have life now and forever.

And walking with Him and knowing Him and being changed by him by his spirit and so lot of good things. And so I think that's the message that that we do want people to hear. We trade our sin. All we do is we bring our sin to Christ and He gives us His righteousness as a gift And that can be done by just simple uh childlike faith in what Jesus did on the cross. He took our punishment.

He paid he paid the sin debt. And uh that's a powerful, powerful truth. Um Any comments about that? Um Matt, that you'd like to Bring to a good question. I want it, where are the holes in that, my friend?

Where are the holes in that? What kind of an amazing gift Um, isn't is isn't that what you say? What what would what would you have to say? W would you would you have any roadblocks to that?

Well, I I think I think for me, I think one, just thank you for having me on. And I know that your viewers aren't. Yeah. necessarily in line with with my ideology, but I um I would frame it up a little differently. I would Um things has has opened many doors for me and open my eyes.

I think It's um you know, to to say that my specific belief about things. And not thinking that maybe Buddhists have something right, or maybe Catholics have something right, or And and to think that my specific branch of the least In this specific God, when there have been Hundreds, if not thousands. Yeah. or even millions of other types of gods that have been worshipped over the history of our planet to To think that that so narrowly and to think that your God must be the key that opens the door to a thing called heaven I think you know, can can in the long term divide us. It can harm us.

Um and I and I think that if this is something that gives you peace Then great. That's fantastic. Continue with it. But also Recognize harms other people. You got it, bro.

I appreciate you having me on. Thank you, Matt. Thank you, Corey. Thank you, Laura, Pastor Lauren. You've been listening to Truth Talk Live.

I've been your host, Russ East. It's been a privilege and an honor to be with all of you. continue this discussion. Open your mouth, ask God for boldness to lovingly share grace and truth. We'll see you again.

Here on Troop Talk Live. Yeah.