How Did Discipleship Shape Your Walk

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This is kind of a great thing and I'll tell you why. Where pop culture, current events, and theology all come together. Speak your mind. And now, here's today's Truth Talk Live host. Discipleship is today? On the Truth Talk Live, who first discipled you? And how did they shape your walk with Jesus? What is discipleship? What exactly should be involved in that? So, you know, maybe what's the biggest lesson God has taught you while trying to disciple someone else?

All those things come to play. Your views, your comments, certainly your testimony or your experience either with your own discipleship or working with somebody else. We would love to hear that today because it is today's topic, that idea of discipleship. The number to call us, 866-348-7884.

866-348-7884. So maybe you think the church is doing a great job of discipleship these days with new believers. Maybe you believe that or maybe you don't or you got to comment along those lines. So discipleship, obviously, according to Matthew 28, was a great commission. And being the Christian Car Guy Show, you know, I've always thought highly of commissions. And so this commission of commissions is critical to what Jesus had in mind for us. And so how is that working out in your life? I would love to hear it, 866-348-7884, both how you understand it, maybe how somebody helped you along that way. Obviously, God is the ultimate discipler.

But then maybe, you know, how it worked out with you, trying to do it with somebody else. We're so honored today to have with us Greg Hinnett. He is the author of many books, but one of which is Walking in His Ways, which has to do with that whole idea of discipleship. And many pastors use this book in order to teach the idea and some of the things that are important in growing in discipleship. But just to kind of get to the framework of the word, a lot of folks, I don't think, really have a grasp on what the word even means.

So how about that, Greg? Yes, that's right. The word discipleship, as it's translated in the New Testament, in each case comes from the Greek mathetes, which means simply pupil, disciple, or learner. But when you put that in the context of Jesus' life and his training of his disciples, it means much more.

I think it means a deeply serious, irrevocably committed, self-disciplined student follower of Christ. They're very serious. They're not turning back.

This is not a light, casual interest with them. They're committing their life to him now. They're self-disciplined.

They don't have to have someone stand over there and say, do this, do that. They are motivated from within to know the Lord more. And they are student followers in that they are both studying the word of Christ and they understand there's a responsibility to live that out, to walk that out. So they're student learners.

Darrell Bock I love that. I would add that part of my understanding of that word in Greek as well is that the Spirit's very much involved and that the word enthusiastic, like they get excited. There's a lot of way in his presence, his fullness of joy. So when you see somebody who has started to love and to learn, it's like they're on a date with God when they're reading the Bible.

And it's like, man, the more that they can read, the more they go into that relationship. And so when that lights up in your world, you know, who came alongside of you? I would love to hear the story.

866-348-7884, 866-348-7884. When I first moved to Winston-Salem, a man by the name of Jack Mayberry went to church with me. And he said, you know, at the time I was in Christ maybe two years. And I was the general manager at the time, Bob Neill, Christ of the Plymouth Chief Beagle. And he came and he said, Robbie, why don't you come to Christian Businessmen's Committee, which is a big discipleship organization I'm not familiar with. And I've actually been a member to this day. In fact, this morning I was at the Christian Businessmen's meeting in Mocksville.

I'm the chairman of that committee for a million years. And so I met a man by the name of Ted Burton. And Ted Burton, he said, Robbie, I got this book.

It's called First Steps. And then you go to Operation Timothy. And he said, do you mind if I come over once a week and we spend about an hour, lunchtime or whatever, going through this book together? And I thought it was kind of weird, but I'm like, okay, all right. So, all right, Ted.

Yeah, you do that. And so what part of Ted did was like, man, that you're supposed to be memorizing certain parts of Scripture. This is what prayer looks like.

This is what prayer should be. And a lot of the stuff that's in your book, by the way, all these different chapters. And he began to walk me as a completely new believer into these things. And he literally like one-on-one with me.

Now, that in itself is amazing. This man was in his late 60s at the time, unfortunately, or fortunately, Ben, for how you look at it. He went to be with the Lord about three years later. But I went to a meeting about 15 years later, and a man stood up in the room and he said, how many people in this room? And there were about a thousand, maybe 1,500 people in the room. He said, how many people in this room were personally discipled by Ted Burton? Were personally discipled by Ted Burton.

And at least 800 hands. Oh, my goodness, wow. That this man's life was that he sat down with men.

And by the way, let me share with you some of the men that I know. He was personally, you know, Stu Epperson to be one of those that would have raised his hand. And David Parsons, who you probably know, definitely would have held up his hand because David was a member of that Christian Businessmen's Committee, and so was Bill Mixon and Adam Draper and several other people that you probably would know, Greg, that were also personally discipled by Ted Burton. That one now. Oh, wow. Yeah. That's great. That's awesome. How about you? What name comes up when you think about it, or what experience, or something you learned or thought you shouldn't have learned?

866-348-7884, 866-348-7884. But, Greg, obviously for you, this is a passion. Oh, yeah. It is a passion. I was just going to say about discipleship. Discipleship, you know, curiosity drives the scholar, but passion has to drive the disciple. Because if you don't have a fire in your belly, you're not going to make it. Because the entry level that you were just talking about, learning how to pray, learning how to seek the Lord first thing in the morning, that's essential.

Learning how to study the Bible and all these things. Once you get to testing, once you get to suffering, once you get to cross-caring, if you don't have a passion in your belly, you won't make it. So that passion comes from the Holy Spirit, and we rekindle it every morning in our quiet time, in our fellowship with Christ. So I encourage all your listeners to take Jesus' instructions in Matthew 633 very seriously. Seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness. Then all these things will be added to you. Now, if you apply that to your daily schedule, you seek the king.

He's the central feature of the kingdom. Seek the king first, and then God will bless everything you do. And you will walk through the day with the king in fellowship with Christ. And that's going to drive you, when you get to the later stages of discipleship and you go through the hard things, that passion will keep you on track.

Darrell Bock Yeah, and to say it's fun, when you begin the journey and people start whipping out words like discipline, you know, it doesn't sound like you remember that from a kid, does not necessarily. But it's amazing the way that those things actually begin to work in your life as you get a chance to fully experience them. And you may know what I'm talking about. Again, I would love to hear your testimony. I would love to hear your thoughts on that. But, you know, it's fascinating to me what started out as, okay, this is what I've got to do, became this is what I get to do, like, Oh, my word, what would happen to me if I didn't do it? Because I've come to find it like, you know, the love of my life, obviously, right. And and that it's some point in time, it becomes more and more the storehouse of your life.

Jay Smith Yes, it does. And everything, everything to write everything derives from that, whether it's your location or profession, if that's your calling, or your ministry, it all comes from that intimate fellowship with Christ. That's sort of the percolator where our spiritual life is renewed and strengthened. And then of course, we learn to carry it through the day, pray without ceasing, Paul said, you pray everywhere you go. And you just walk with Christ through through everything in your life. And so but as far as discipline, you know, it's interesting, Robbie, everything we want to succeed in in life, we discipline ourselves, we discipline our time, our energy, and we, we contour to that end.

So we should apply this to knowing Christ and fulfilling his will. How cool is that? Well, you've got stuff rolling around and percolating. And I need to hear it. 866-348-7884. We'd love to hear from you. 866-344-TRUTH, right? How did discipleship shape you?

You're listening to the Truth Network and truthnetwork.com. Darrell Bock Welcome back to Truth Talk Live. Today, who first discipled you and how did that shape or how did they shape your walk with Jesus? I would love to hear your story, or maybe your view on what discipleship is, or maybe you've had a chance to disciple somebody and you have a neat story, a testimony, I would love to hear it. 866-348-78848.

866-348-7884. So honored to have with us Dr. Greg Hinnott with us, author of Walking in His Way, his amazing book on discipleship. But I got Mike is in Dayton, Ohio. So Mike, I got to hear it. You got a testimony for me.

Dr. Greg Hinnott Yeah. Well, you know, you know, my, my dad's discipled me a lot. And, and also when I was in the Marine Corps, there was other people that came my way to help me, you know, get closer to God. And I think a lot of times in the church, and I'm going to maybe make a negative comment here.

They see a person and they see their relatives, and they see their family. And they feel like maybe they feel like that person's doesn't need a lot of attention. You know, I mean, and I think a lot of times that's, everyone needs attention. Everyone needs to be sharpened every day, you know, just everyone needs to be loved on and cared for, and smiled upon.

And I and the more I realized that I was just even talking to my barber today about Christ. That's what people want. You know, people want attention.

They want to know that people care about them. Dr. Darrell Bock Right. It's just like your dad, obviously, cared deeply, deeply, deeply for you, deeply enough to not let you wall around in the mud, right? Like, hey, Mike, you know, you might pray about that, you know, and begin to teach you what prayer looks like. Or hey, Mike, you know, a lot of what I learned, I got out of the Bible, you know, you wonder where this came from, and beginning to whet your appetite, train you up in the way you should go, right?

Dr. Michael Smith Right. And you just listen to someone, just to listen to what their issue is with life, you know what I mean? And then you give them the Scripture, and you encourage them and pray for them. To me, that's discipleship. And every Christian needs to have someone right alongside with them, no matter how much you think they're spiritual, or even if they're a pastor. I know you got Makita Kolos that you go to lunch with and talk to, Robbie, and, you know— Dr. Darrell Bock Oh, I have so many, believe me, you know.

I am very, very blessed with lots of iron that rubs off on me. I sometimes sit there back amazed. And I know, honestly, you know, I would challenge somebody to call in, because I imagine a lot of people, I know I was discipled on the radio by people like J. Vernon McGee. Like, oh my goodness, he's walking me through the Bible. Or David Jeremiah, or yeah, yeah, absolutely.

All these people, they do that stuff. And, you know, it's so meaningful. And I couldn't agree with you more, Mike, that we really, we take some of it for granted.

We really shouldn't. That, oh my gosh, what God, miracles he did in order to catch me, you know, whether it was in the car on my radio, or, you know, that somebody sent somebody and rose them up. So I appreciate your call more than you know, Mike, as always.

Dr. Michael Smith Well, thank you. And one more comment. Shoot, lost my train of thought. But that's okay.

Okay. God loves everyone. And God, if you seek him, he'll send you someone to help you go through the past, you know. Dr. Darrell Bock You're right, Mike, in that that idea of grace is when you treat somebody like they're your favorite, that unmerited favor kind of thing. People love grace. They just do. And it works.

And it certainly sets people up for discipleship. So God bless you, man. Have a great day. Dr. Michael Smith Oh, and you've been my disciple, too. And I listen to you all the time. And you've been so encouraging.

And the words of wisdom that you have, it's just awesome. You strengthen me every day. And I know I pray for this station. And maybe you guys pray for me, too.

I wheel it sometimes. It's just so awesome, you know, to be a family of God, you know. Dr. Darrell Bock It is. It is.

And it's real. Dr. Michael Smith Even when you're in North Carolina, you know what I mean? Dr. Darrell Bock Thank you, Mike. God bless.

I love you. Dr. Michael Smith God bless. Thank you. Dr. Darrell Bock Bye-bye. So I got Jamal is in Winston-Salem. Jamal, you are on Truth Talk Live, my friend. Jamal Hi, Mr. Dale Moore. And I'll go to you, Dr. Hinnant.

I'm glad to see you both on the radio. Dr. Darrell Bock Yes. Hello, Jamal. Dr. Darrell Bock It's a lot of fun. And now we got you, man.

Jamal Yes, sir. Well, before the break comes up, I want to say that Dr. Greg Hinnant is somebody that has discipled me. It's good, as I've said before to other people, it's good to have a theologian in your pocket.

You know, whenever I have a question or you know, I have a topic to run by somebody who knows their stuff, I'll call up Dr. Hinnant. So that's a guy that's also discipled me. And real quick, also, he has his own church, which he has not mentioned. So I'm going to plug his church.

I've been there. He also sings and plays piano at his church. So just some other talents to his whole repertoire of talents that he has. So he's a great guy. Dr. Darrell Bock Now, you're telling me something I didn't know. I knew, of course, he had a church, but I didn't know that he played piano. And so, you know, I would say I'm a Michael W. Smith wannabe with real emphasis on the wannabe. Well, now that I know that he plays piano, you know, we're working on Greg has a new show coming up called in class, and that they were actually here today working on and I know you're gonna be excited about that Jamal, but we're actually picking out music for his intro, etc. And I'm sitting there thinking, why in the world would you compose your own since you play the piano? I mean, I think you ought to play your own, you know, don't you think, Nick? It would be awesome, man. Why not?

So, you know, the people come on there, hear your heart. Dr. Darrell Bock I'll have to polish my pianist playing a little bit. Dr. Darrell Bock Jamal, that's awesome. Dr. Darrell Bock That may be an idea. Dr. Darrell Bock I like that have a theologian in your pocket.

Dr. Darrell Bock Oh, yeah, definitely. He doesn't try to talk over your head. He spends time talking with you.

He doesn't say, hey, I got another book to write. I got to go to a class. I got to go talk to this important person. He is passionate about empowering people and getting out knowledge. So you call him up. He will go through whatever topic you run by him. Dr. Darrell Bock Well, Jamal, you're kind. He is that. He is a dear brother in so many different ways, as is so many of our listeners. Dr. Darrell Bock That's right. And also there's a guy named Robbie Dilmore as well. Don't want to forget him.

Don't want to forget Stu Epson. A lot of folks at Truth Network. This is a great network. And guys support it. Tell people about it.

And it's definitely empowered a lot of people. With that being said, God bless you guys. Love you all. And I'll talk to you all later. Dr. Darrell Bock Hey, God bless, Jamal. Dr. Darrell Bock Yeah, that's fun. Now, you're sitting there thinking I could call. Yes, you should. You should call us.

866-348-7884, 866-34-TRUTH. Right? We're talking about discipleship. Maybe somebody that touched you.

Maybe something you got to comment. But that's great. Dr. Darrell Bock You know, just think about the Bible. Old Testament New. We have so many examples of one servant of God taking the other under his wings. I mean, you go right back to Moses and Joshua. And, you know, you go to David and Samuel, Elijah, Paul, and Timothy. It's just all over the Bible. Where men of God, and women of God, you could say Naomi and Ruth, took others who were younger in the faith under their wing.

And they just told them about the Lord, told him about his ways, and helped lead them into their divine destiny. Dr. Darrell Bock Right. And, you know, you've heard it said, and I do love it, that they're so much more caught than taut.

Right? And so a lot of people just watch your life, and they're watching. And they're seeing what discipleship looks like based on, you know, what they see coming out of your heart. Dr. Darrell Bock Yeah.

And absolutely. And the other aspect there is that there is a more formalized discipleship process where you're in a class, or you're under the constant tutelage of a particular minister or elder. And then there's the informal where you're just getting information from older guys and the Lord all the time. You're being discipled a little here, a little there. Dr. Darrell Bock Yeah.

The cool thing is it's all coming from him. Dr. Darrell Bock Right. Dr. Darrell Bock And there you get to experience him. Dr. Darrell Bock Yes. Dr. Darrell Bock And there you get to go further in your relationship.

Well, we got to go to a break. We would love to hear from you. 866-348-7884. Give us a call. Dr. Darrell Bock You're listening to The Truth Network and truthnetwork.com. Welcome back to Truth Talk Live. Today we are talking discipleship.

It's so critical to, you know, the great commission, as we talked about in Matthew 28, that it's go ye therefore and make disciples of all nations, right, and baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son. And I'm going to be with you always. You know, it's a great commission.

I'm just telling you. And it is like one of the joys of my life to watch somebody else catch fire and then which helps you even get a little further along. And this idea is fascinating that you go from this point of discipline, which, you know, again, we talked about the connotations on all that have not necessarily a great taste in my mouth coming out of my youth. But as you begin to enjoy the fruits of it, it becomes just critical to, you know, gee, if you really want to do something, you do it.

Dr. Darrell Bock Right. Yeah. You take the pains. You do what you have to do to discipline your time, your effort, your diet, everything.

And it's not a burden to you. You love it because you're after that end. And in this case, every one of the spiritual disciplines of the Lord helps you come closer and stay closer and then learn to live a lifestyle of a disciple. And you become more and more content and you become more consistent. And that's really you're headed toward what the New Testament calls perfection. It doesn't mean sinless perfection. It means consistency in your walk. It means Christlikeness.

Dr. Darrell Bock And like the fruits of the Spirit. It just kind of has this flow to it. It starts out with love. That's easy.

Well, not really. But hopefully love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness. But then all of a sudden, wham-ho, self-control. Oh, if I could only have that, right?

But it comes from all the other work that gets you there. And again, I know you're thinking things. And so this would be a great time for you to call us and tell us what you're thinking. 866-348-7884, 866. Where does that touch you?

866-348-7884 is the number. Because we really, we just love to hear from our listeners and what they're thinking and how does this resonate with you. And one of the neat, neat things about Greg's book is it does not punch, pull. It doesn't pull any punches, okay?

I mean, it goes right in there into self-examination. Like what? Now you've gone to preaching. Like what? Because there's some tough stuff in this that really, with sin in the way, it's kind of hard to get much further.

Dr. Darrell Bock Right. But that's such an essential discipline, Robbie, because, and I told you, I think, during the break that perhaps it's our Protestant overreaction to the Catholic doctrine of having to confess your sins to a priest to have them absolved, so they claim. But we perhaps are overreacting in that we think, well, we don't confess our sins.

Well, if we don't, what happens is we spoil our fellowship. Remember, sin doesn't change the born again Christians' relationship, but it will clearly impair their fellowship. You cannot draw near to the Lord with unconfessed sin on you. You can't read your Bible with really to draw out the spiritual understanding.

You can't pray effectively. The Psalm says, if I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me. And so these are things that we have to point out to Christians so that we will quickly and truthfully confess our sins when they arise. Dr. Darrell Bock And sometimes confess them one to another.

Robbie Barnes Oh, yes. Confess your faults one to another, James says, which is a humbling thing. It's a growing thing. It helps us all realize we're in the same boat together. We have a sin nature we have to deal with, and we're constantly acting upon life, but we're reacting to it.

Sometimes our initial reaction is not right. So if we confess it, hey, the Lord forgives immediately. But he does require the truth. This is the truth network.

He wants the truth. Dr. Darrell Bock But the beauty of that one, in my experience, if you have people that you, you know, again, you just don't try this at home necessarily. You're gonna find people, some of those sins, you just don't go confessing one to another. But you do need people in your life that you totally trust to tell them anything that's going through your little, you know, something that really has you buffaloed that you got yourself in, you took a good whiff of your inner cesspool, as C.S.

Lewis would said. And then, you know what I've discovered, and I hope you've discovered this too, because I certainly have that stuff in my life, I'll be completely honest. And when I go to those dear, dear brothers, and we begin to have those discussions, like immediately, obviously God's, you know, in the, he's gonna, you know, just like saying, you know, he's gonna cleanse me from all unrighteousness, but something else happens.

C.S. Lewis My draw to that, when I get it out in the air, it looks a lot uglier than it sounded in my brain. And I'm like, whoa, and then, but it's interesting, their response usually is, Robbie, quit beating yourself up. Robbie, you're not the only one that's ever struggled with that. Robbie, you know, let me, you know, Robbie, I love you, but it's fascinating that it's beyond just self-examination. It's really getting in there and so helpful. I just can't imagine, that's one of the tools that you learn.

And I've never heard anybody say, well, I really had this dear brother, you know, very trustworthy, and I went to him with him, and that went bad. I just, you know. C.S. Lewis Right. Yeah, because, you know, part of our training is to be compassionate. We have to learn to be compassionate. And we understand that we have failed, so we can condemn no one. But, you know, you brought up something there that there's a difference between condemnation and conviction. Conviction is the guilt that rests upon the Christian when he or she has not confessed and repented of sin. And by the way, biblical confession involves repentance. Proverb says, he that confesseth his sin, he that confesseth and forsaketh his sin shall have mercy. So it doesn't just mean admit, it means tell God the truth, and if we sin against someone else, tell them the truth, and then repent.

Change the mind, change the behavior. But there's a difference between conviction of sin and condemnation. And the latter is when, the former is rather, when you, when conviction of sin is when you're under conviction, you're guilty, and you have not come to God to confess that sin and turn from it. That's conviction. That's a good thing. That's holy. Jesus said the spirit of truth has come to convict us of sin.

The other issue is totally different. The other mood, condemnation, that comes from Satan to bring back to your mind sins you have already confessed to try to beat you down with it, because if you lock on to that, then it will impair your next step. You will stumble because you're down on yourself. It's also a form of pride. It's a form of pride.

We're shocked that we're so bad, so we want to beat ourselves up, you know. The humble man will just receive forgiveness and move to the next step. I actually, interestingly, studied that word of great length today, because I was looking at Luke chapter 6, where it talks about condemn, you know, first it says don't judge, then it says don't condemn, right? And then it says forgive in that order after you're being merciful, and it too is kind of building for you. But the interesting thing is when I judge myself, if that's what I'm doing, which Paul said you don't even do that, but if I do, then all of a sudden, okay, that was whatever, that was a behavior. But when I start to condemn yourself, now, right, instead of being I took a drink, now I'm an alcoholic, you label yourself. And that condemn, and unfortunately I do that with other people, you know, like I will not only judge their behavior, but then I decide, oh, that person is a drug addict, or I'll start to label them and all that stuff. And those condemnations.

Right. And yeah, and there's a key difference between judging and condemning. You know, to judge is simply to render a decision.

We're doing that all the time. While you and I are talking, people are judging what we're saying, and they should. That's part of discernment, okay, discern truth from error. But so we're going to make decisions, and when we see a brother or sister sinning, when we see they sin, we shouldn't say, well, they didn't mean to.

No, they did, and they sinned. It's a sin. And so we call it a sin, but we don't have the heat of condemnation behind it where we're putting them down and considering them unworthy, unredeemable, and writing them off. That's what condemnation does.

It's disdain. So the Christian should never condemn a living soul, no matter how evil the sinner is. We should pray for their redemption, but not condemn them.

We make the judgment that they're wrong, but we don't condemn them. Right. And also, you don't want to make, and I fall into this trap constantly, is that I think I know why they did it. Oh, yeah, right.

So part of judgment is not just that, okay, that was, but I know the reason you did that is you really hate me, you know, or whatever it is that I put behind it. It's imagination. Right, right, right. This is important, Robby. It's important. It is.

It's because, I mean, I fall into these traps myself. Right. And I assume, you know. You know, and I talk about this in the book and in my course on discipleship is in the segment on self-examination because we have to deal with imaginations. What is an imagination?

It's anything that you do not know to be a fact. Right. Okay. So we have daydreams. We have other forms of imaginations, you know, building air castles or visions of grandeur, et cetera. And you're talking about here imaginations of what other people think or why they did it unless they come out and say, I'm thinking this or I did it because you don't know you're trying to play God with them. So in 2 Corinthians 11, 10, 3 through 5, Paul talks about our weapons.

They're mighty, you know, in God, not carnal. And one of them is casting down imaginations. Now, often if you're dealing with theologians, they're talking about casting down false doctrine. Okay. So they're applying that polemically.

Okay. But for every Christian to cast down imaginations. Oh, polemically. That's a word I have not heard before.

Yeah, having to do with debating issues. But for every one of us, every one of your listeners right now, this is very important that we learn to identify imaginations because see, they could be imaginations of fear. And if we don't cast it down, then that fear will take hold of us and it will lead us to weakness and double madness and failure.

And so you have to identify it. But if it's this type of judgmental imagination, what it does is it spoils friendships. Because, you know, if you're saying we're having lunch and you're judging me and I'm judging you, we're not going to enjoy our fellowship. We may enjoy the lunch, but not the fellowship. So this is important because I've seen it splits families, it splits relatives, it splits churches, it splits pastors.

Of course. This is an important issue to quickly reject that as an imagination and don't accept it. If you have a question about why somebody did something, go to them and ask them.

Now what was the motive behind exactly why you did that? I know this is bringing up something in your mind. And we'd love to hear your ideas. We'd love to hear your experiences. Especially we would love to hear your testimony. How did God step into this? 866-348-7884. Maybe something God has taught you from His Word.

A verse along these lines that you think is significant. Oh man, we all need to hear that. You could help somebody so much by calling in. 866-348-7884.

866-348-7884. And so, you know, the neat thing about the topic, right, is that it's so broad. Very broad. And that it covers so much of our relationship with Jesus, our relationship with the fellow believers, it even covers, you know, our relationship with, you know, the lost. Right. And what that works in. And so, you know, when Jesus gave it as this great commission, it is a great commission.

Yes it is. You know, there was something behind that. So we would love, love to hear your thoughts, your experiences, your testimonies. 866-348-7884. We've got one more segment left. Get your calls in.

We'll be right back. You're listening to the Truth Network and truthnetwork.com. Darrell Bock Welcome back to Truth Talk Live. Today's question, I love it. Who discipled you and how has that shaped your walk with Jesus? We would love to hear your thoughts, your stories. 866-348.

The number to call in is 866-348-7884. Again, we are so honored to have with us Dr. Greg Hinnett and his book, Walking in His Ways, which, you know, since he is the way, it's pretty cool. The whole deal you get to do with him. But I got to tell you, this last chapter is intriguing, because what it actually says is, because everything's in the way, which is kind of cool, it says the way of fulfillment, and then it says the way of a corn of wheat. And so, obviously, being the good, enthusiastic learner slash disciple that I am, what you're talking about, Willis?

566-208-7342 John 12-24. Many years ago, I'm a student of Oswald Chambers as well, and I remember reading many years ago where he said that every genuine kingdom work of the Holy Spirit follows the pattern of John 12-24, where Jesus said, verily, verily, I say unto you, except a corn of wheat, or today a grain of wheat, falls into the ground and dies, it abides alone. But if it dies, it brings forth much fruit. And so, in the course and in the book there, point out how that this is a pattern seen throughout the kingdom of God, that something lives, and then it dies, and then it lives again in a grander way and produces much more fruit.

You can go off. First of all, church history has followed that pattern. I mean, there was the early church, then beginning of the fourth century, went down into a long period of death where the church was deeply entrenched with heresy and sin of every kind. And then with the Reformation, the church began to come back to life and now it's produced tremendously, tremendous fruit all over the world, much more than it did around, basically around the Mediterranean area. But in every work of God follows this pattern.

Darrell Bock Yeah, it's beautiful. And, you know, I don't know if you've ever studied the Hebrew letters or you're familiar with some of what the teaching is on them, but the letter nun is this letter that, the picture of it is that corn that has fallen. And the issue is not that just that it goes to the ground and dies, it literally falls. And the reason why King David didn't put the nun section in, I think it's a 34 psalm, one of the psalms that's an acrostic, he didn't put that because the idea of falling was something that is extremely painful for him as he certainly fell with Bathsheba. But the interesting thing is as he died, and you think about the fruit of the psalms themselves and so many other things that what you're talking about, but fascinatingly the quintessential corn was Jesus himself. Because you talk about falling, like they beat him to death, they poured out his blood, he did all that stuff so that he could come and show us the way. When you say the way of the corn like it is, you are following Jesus right there as we take up our cross and follow him. We got Joel, he's got a testimony for us, I gotta hear it Joel, I'm so excited to have you on.

Well good afternoon, I guess it's almost evening, good afternoon from South Carolina. Oh man, where do I start? I was raised in a Christian home and my folks got involved in a cult thing and I got involved in that and I ended up getting married and then six years later that failed and a whole bunch of reasons and now I'm on my fourth marriage. But I look at it this way, after my third marriage broke up, I put an ad on a dating site and this gal by the name of Vicki answered my ad and it was, her deal was that she didn't want to get involved with a fellow that wouldn't go to church with her.

Ah. And I says well Vicki, I says I have nothing about, nothing against going to church, I just haven't been for 25 years. And so she invited me September 14th, 2007, she invited me to the Little Bible Steady Home Group that they had in Federal Way, Washington with the Vineyard Group and I went to that and it changed my life and it ended up to where the current wife that I have was down in Georgia and she and her husband split up about the same time my wife and I did in Washington and we were, I came back to my faith and she came back to her faith because she'd abandoned it and we both came back to our faith and we had a mutual friend in Portland, Oregon and through her we got phone numbers and we got to talking to each other and we've been married 17 years 17 years as of July 18th. You know what's funny about that Joel, it really really is and I don't know if you're familiar with my story but it's not unlike that.

I'm not real familiar with it, I've listened to you some but I haven't listened a whole lot. I'm on my third marriage, not fourth, but it got me beat by one. Well I don't want this to be a competition, let's not make this a competition. No no I'm just kidding but it's true this is my third wife. I was in the Church of Scientology so I was in a bit of a cult myself. When my wife met me she clearly had her hands full and her words were not unlike your friends that said you know if you're going to date me we got to go to church and I'm like oh man that's my day off I was in the car and so you know definitely I am with you know that's why I can definitely relate with you Joel in so many different ways.

I didn't realize that. God came after me in so many different ways. Again we can we can speak to discipleship but it's such a joy because obviously we're coming after him but he came after us first and it's amazing that whether he does that with a woman or he does that with whatever you know that that takes you to where you're going Greg but it works doesn't it Greg. Yeah he has a lot of different ways to bring us to him create the need and then he and then he moves to draw us you know Jesus said in John 12 no man can come into me except the Father who has sent me draw him and so that's the work of the Holy Spirit you know when we're just wretched and miserable and empty and he gives us hope that there's there's a better life you know. And then here's the hope yes this is my third marriage but it's 37 years and three children.

Wow there we go yeah that's a keeper that's a keeper that's the way it's supposed to be. I have no thought of anything but to spend an eternity you know not eternity but at least the rest of my time here with Tammy and so it gives me great hope that you know again you can take somebody that's all as far in left field as about you could get me and the next thing you know so. The Lord's in the redemption business that's what he does his specialty. I love it Joel I do man I appreciate your call so much and your testimony it means the world to me. Well I can tell you that I was not looking for God at all I know I was living a pretty good life as far as everything goes I had two children by my second husband my second wife and I adopted three foster children with my third wife and my fourth wife wasn't involved in raising any of them but she had a six-year-old when we got together and he is he was a real terror but he has since come to the Lord and just all praise God and so and my daughter my son and daughter my biological children are both serving.

My foster kids are not that much but anyway anyway there you go I figured. Howard and upward Joel just keep praying. Matter for prayer yes. I was on my way home and you were on in the car because I like to listen to the Truth Network and I listen to it in the morning on my way when Alistair Begg is on. Always wonderful. Anyway thank you very much guys take care. God bless. Thank you. Thank you for your call. Well you're thinking I could call you should 866-348-7884 866-348-7884 and you know that's another huge gigantic area of people's life that requires a lot of discipleship is how do you treat your wife? How do you treat your kids? Right and also the whole divorce remarriage scenario I teach a course on that and it's so important that we get into the New Testament to find out what Jesus and the apostles actually taught because there's some misinformation that we've been given in religious circles particularly about remarriage and in the ministry and so those things have to be sorted out you know rightly dividing the truth that's an area where we need the truth applied but compassionately and faithfully and you balance that you want to be faithful to truth and then your compassion and your application of it just as Jesus was. Yeah yeah when you think about the shenanigans he was involved with however you know they look how how their lives were changed right you know and somebody who redeems our life from destruction I mean you know it's it's awesome you know and he is he's so good and and it's amazing you know the song years ago by the Gaither something beautiful you know you know he made my life something beautiful and all my confusion he understood that's a that's so true that's so true and and again we get back to this idea of being an enthusiastic learner right we were talking about it during the break that you know we are all students it may not sound like all that but believe me there's sometimes like if you love to hunt I can assure you you got an old hunter sitting there by and he's telling you well you got to use a 12 gauge you're being discipled and you're eating it up like man oh oh this is the kind of place I need to go or if you're on that unbelievable date right with this girl and believe me you're a student you're you're studying everything oh you like you like steak or you like oh you like tofu whatever it is that you're studying it and and you're like becoming a student and you're loving it well that's how it actually the more you fall in love with Jesus the more that that's like oh I didn't know like oh man yeah he really is and you know there's I see I see the discipleship though it's a second harvest the first harvest is salvation the second discipleship is geared toward maturing the church in anticipation of Christ's return so it's really a hugely important work that the church needs to provide and and uh a ministry to its members wonderful thank you Greg thank you for listening thank you Robby