A Conversation with Paul Milligan

TNG Radio, where today's culture and timeless truths come together. It's reasoned, relevant content apologetics, worldview, and answers to the questions that you need to know. From Alex McFarland Evangelistic Ministries.

Welcome to Truth For A New Generation Radio. And now the man who preached in 50 states in 50 days, speaker, writer, and advocate for Christian apologetics, Dr. Alex McFarland. In the Word of God, it said, It is God that giveth the power to get wealth. The Bible says that God is our provider. And you know, we don't really own things. We're stewards. We're managers.

In fact, 1 Corinthians 4, verse 2 says, Moreover, it is required of a steward that he be found faithful. Hi, Alex McFarland here. You are listening to Truth For A New Generation Radio. We've got a very special show.

In fact, the program you're about to hear very well may change your life forever. I am talking with a new friend, a gentleman I've heard of for years, just got to know a little bit this week, Paul Milligan. Paul is one of the principals who helps lead Karras Bible College, where I'm here recording. And he's graciously agreed to give us a few minutes of his time. And Paul, I think you, I know you're helping lead the business school at Karras, and you do so many things. But for a moment, give the listeners kind of a story of you and your wife, and who are you, and where has God led you and used you, and help us get to know Paul Milligan.

Well, my wife's name is Patsy, and we've been married for almost 48 years. We both grew up in the same area in Texas, have known each other since we were 12 years old. And I guess the best place to start, Alex, is we walked out of a Kenneth Copeland convention meeting in Fort Worth, Texas in 1977, and a man prophesied to us that we did not know, he didn't know us. And he, on the sidewalk, prophesied, he said, Young man, God's pleased with your life, and He's called you to create wealth. And God's going to give you your own company, and you're not going to have to borrow money, you're not going to have to struggle, you're not going to have to strive for it. God's going to actually hand it to you as though it were on a silver platter. Now that sounded really good, but I was very naïve at the time, we were young, just baptized in the Holy Spirit.

And I thought, I told Patsy, I said, Man, we better get ready, God, this could happen now, three weeks, a month, whatever it was. Well, it was almost 15 years later. And all the things we had to learn to be able for God to entrust that to us.

But that started a journey, and I had many prophecies during those years of what God would do. We started our own company in 1989, and we built that company into a very large corporation that went public in 2017. So God has blessed us enormously. We own a healthcare company that our son owns with us. He's the president and CEO.

He's 45 years old. He's just a magnificent leader and has built a great company. So God has fulfilled His word to us. We've been able to create wealth.

I'm on Andrew Wommack's board of directors and have been with him for many, many, many years. And God has just been so good to us to allow us to fund so many things in the Kingdom through that wealth. Dr. Darrell Bock Paul, what is the connection between the way we handle money and our spiritual condition? Paul Well, you know, this is interesting. I've ministered in churches all over the world.

But here in the United States, you know, one of the things I'll do is I usually get asked to come in and do financial conferences, usually two- to three-day conferences. And I'll always ask the members of the church, I'll say, you know, how many of you will be honest with me today? And you've been tithing, maybe you've been giving for many, many years, maybe all your life.

And you're actually no better off financially today than you were when you started. How many of you will be honest with me? And you know what? Usually at least 50 percent of the congregation will raise their hands. And I think what a lot of Christians suffer with is that they, you know, you read scriptures like 2 Corinthians 9, 8 that says, And God is able to make all grace abound toward you, that you having all sufficiency in all things may then have an abundance to give to every good work. Think about that scripture for a moment.

Sometimes we just read over scriptures. All sufficiency in all things. I mean, God, he wasn't trying to take up space when he wrote that.

He meant it. But our experience is some sufficiency in a few things occasionally, not all sufficiency in all things. But then that's not enough for God. Once we have all sufficiency in all things, he wants us to have an abundance to give to every good work. Now, my question in love is how many of us are living that?

Probably not very many, not as many as God wants to live there because God intends for us to fund the kingdom of God and he has a big plan. And so, you know, what I share with people is the problem that I see in the Christian world where finances are concerned is we read wonderful promises like that and then we turn to a world system to try to get that scriptural result. You know, my dad used to say, Paul, my dad said, it's okay to have things, but don't let things have you. Isn't it fair to say the Lord entrusts to us. God is so gracious and we grow and we work and hopefully we progress. But I believe God prospers us, sure, so we can have food on the table, but so we can help fund the Great Commission. Am I right?

You're absolutely right. And you know, one of the things that I spend a lot of time teaching in financial conferences is what God has taught my wife and I and my many employees and the people that God has given us over the years is that I think God has shown us why our giving sometimes doesn't produce. You know, you've been around, maybe not as long as I have, but you've been around a while and we've taught, the church has taught giving almost ad nauseam. But what the church hasn't taught, there's two sides of that coin. There's a half a loaf that we should call giving, but there's another half of that loaf that's stewardship.

So, you know, here's what I've learned, Alex. You know, you give, give, give, but God won't suspend one part of His Word to make another part of His Word work for you. If you're going to be financially successful and experience 2 Corinthians chapter 9, 8, you're going to give, but you're also going to be a good steward. God just won't violate His own Word. Brother, this is so important.

Folks, if you're just tuning in, this might be one of the most important shows you ever hear in your life. We're talking with Paul Milligan. Yeah, we're talking about money, but we're talking about overall viewing all of life in terms of stewardship. Paul, I love what you said. God doesn't suspend one part of His Word just to help it work for you in another area. The Bible says that if we harbor sin in our heart, God won't hear our prayers. You know, the Bible says, you know, how can we say we love God but hate our brother? For the Christian, isn't being a disciple really an all or nothing proposition? I mean, we need to let the Word of God all points be operative in our life. You're absolutely right, Alex.

And, you know, our culture has taught us to be very bad stewards. Debt is the way you get ahead. I hate debt because God hates debt, right?

It's bondage. Here's the bottom line. I'll ask this question sometimes. How many of you have ever been sitting in a service and a need is presented to you and the Holy Spirit speaks to you and says, I want you to give $1,000 to that? But you look at your checkbook and there's only $200. You've already spent the $800 that would have been available if we had followed God and sought Him about how we're to steward our money. Folks, very special edition of Truth For a New Generation with Paul Melden. Stay tuned. We're talking about wealth, resources, and stewardship before God. We're back after this.

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For apologetics resources, books by Alex McFarland, and to find out where Alex is speaking, visit AlexMcFarland.com. Welcome back to the program. We're talking about something that we can all relate to – money. Everybody has money coming in and out of their lives. And Brother Paul, before the break, you and I were talking about giving. And I believe in tithing, but we can't just assume that the remaining 90 percent is ours to do with however we please, can we?

No, we can't. You know, tithing really, Alex, is – I know you know this, but it's literally a guideline under the law. Paul the apostle taught us a lot about giving in the New Testament, but he did not bring the tithe across. Here's what he did.

He always emphasized liberality. Tithing is 10 percent. That's what the law says. But remember, the law is restrictive.

It's limiting. What God wants is a cheerful giver with a joyful heart, hearing from God in our relationship with Him. See, I'd rather hear from God in my relationship with Him about what I'm to give than any other way to learn how to give.

I want to hear from God. So what Paul taught us was a relationship with Jesus will result in God speaking to us about how we're to give. So when I talk about stewardship, you know, just after that 2 Corinthians chapter 9, verse 8, verse 10 talks about, and God gives bread to the eater and seed to the sower, right? So God doesn't – He gives seed to sowers.

That's the point. He doesn't give seed to non-sowers. Sowers are the people who hear God's voice and give not out of obligation by the law 10 percent. It might be 25 percent. You may – look, Patchy and I started – we started with what we learned, 10 percent, okay? Now we're giving away 55 to 60 percent of everything.

I want to go to 90. J.C. Penney did it. R.G. Letourneau, do you – you remember from Texas, he gave away 90 and lived on the 10. And you know, you say, well, how is that possible? Well, let God teach you how to create wealth and the 10 percent, you like the 10 percent.

Let me just say that. So the point I'm trying to make is that we cannot – we have to learn stewardship. We have to learn scriptural stewardship, okay?

And so God taught us many, many years ago. He spoke to my wife and I to get out of debt. We don't borrow money. We haven't for decades. And we pay cash for everything. Now that – and then you say, well, that's not possible for me. But you can start that direction, right? I know you've testified to me and told me that's what you and your wife have done.

R.G. By God's grace. And you know, the Lord is so good. And hey, I'm – math, I was a terrible math student. I don't know in the world how to reconcile the checkbook. My wife does that.

But 26 years ago, we had $58. And by God's grace, we made a commitment early in our marriage – in fact, the afternoon we said our vows – that if the Lord would help us, we would never, never rob God, you know? And let me just say God is faithful. God is faithful. And don't we – as we obey God in our giving – and sometimes it is a major step of faith. There might be somebody listening, Paul, and to give $10 out of $100 might be for them a major step of faith. Folks, it might stretch you, but what's happening is God is going to grow you. And do you know what? The Lord will put the decimal point in your checkbook where he can trust you with it. Am I right, Paul?

P.J. He will. God is so faithful. He always does abundantly above what we could ask or think. God is not a just enough God.

And a lot of Christians have – you know, one of the greatest authorities in our life, Alex, is our experience. We let our past experience dictate our future. And that's not what God wants. God wants abundance in our life.

And so I know a lot of people have lived in our culture under debt and bondage and, you know, living paycheck to paycheck. I have compassion for them, okay? This is not a condemnation of anyone. This is an encouragement that if you're going to get this right, if you're going to see the abundance that we just quoted out of 2 Corinthians chapter 9, you have to be a good steward and a giver both combined.

Here's what I've found is true. God gives bread to the eater and seed to the sower. But there's two different kinds of Christians. There are some Christians who do that. The only way you can – God – here's what God says.

You're the one in your relationship with God who has to determine what's bread and what's seed. You know why formulas in the Word don't work, Alex? Because they bypass relationship with God. He won't allow formulas to work for you.

That's why. And so what I'm saying is a lot of Christians try to sow their bread. That's a religious frame of mind. I'm going to help God out. I'm going to give him back.

I don't have time to tell the story, but I had a woman one time who actually did this. And so what's the other side of that coin? Well, there are those who sow their bread. God don't want you to sow your bread. He gave it to you to eat. But then there are those who eat their seed.

And so both tend to poverty. This is brilliant. If you're just tuning in, we're talking with Paul Milligan, a dear brother, an entrepreneur, and one of the principals that's helping build Cares Bible College where people from all around the world are being trained in the Gospel. Paul, this is – I want you, if you would, to elaborate.

Formulas don't work because they're impersonal. God is all about the relationship. And that's why the Bible talks about the measure of our faith and how God works in our life because he wants us to trust him and God wants us to see him as our source.

Absolutely. Alex, I think one of the biggest damaging things that's happening to Christians today is they compartmentalize their life. If what you're doing in your life is not coming from your relationship with Jesus, it's a waste of time.

I don't care how good it may be. There are good things and then there are God things. I'm only interested in God things. And so what I'm encouraging people to do is you may have to go back and learn how to be a good steward because you've learned it from the world. I said a while ago, one of the most frustrating things is to look at the magnificent promises of God. But then people, because it's all they know, they turn to a world system to realize that scriptural result is never going to happen. I have a teaching – it's quite – it's two or three hours, but I have a teaching where I teach the difference between the kingdom economy and the world's cursed economy. The world's economy is cursed.

That's why it doesn't work all the time. But God didn't leave you to be subject to the world economy. There is a kingdom economy. The principles that operate in God's kingdom economy are almost the diametrically opposed opposite of what works in the world. The secret, if you will – it's not really a secret, but the principle that will create the abundance that you read about in God's Word that He wants you to have is the combination of giving in a relationship with Jesus where you're hearing from Him, with a cheerful heart you give. Forget the tithe. I mean, I'm not – the tithe is fine, but it was under – it was the law. It was a guideline. It's not who Jesus – that's not the word God wants you to be.

He wants you to be in liberality in a relationship with Jesus. Then the other side of that coin is learn to be a good steward. Get out of debt. Get out of bondage.

Stop living from paycheck to paycheck. When we come back, Paul's going to give people some steps of where to start, where you are, as you are. This is truth for a new generation. We're back after this brief break.

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So honored to be speaking with Paul Milligan. Hey, before we resume our conversation with Paul, I do want to remind everybody I'm going to be at the Cove, the Billy Graham Training Center at the Cove, July 8 through 10. We'll be teaching the book of 1 Peter and how to defend the Christian faith if you've never been to the Cove. Let me tell you, the presence of God is there. Billy and Ruth Graham prayer walked over all those grounds.

The scenery is beautiful. The fellowship is wonderful. With people from all over North America, we will get together, we will fellowship, we will pray, you'll eat really good food, and best of all, we'll get deep into the Word of God.

The website is thecove.org. Angie and I would love to see you there, July 8 through 10. Well, Paul, you and I are also on the grounds of one of the most exciting Christian spots in the World Charist Bible College. It's got to be very special for you and Patsy to speak into the lives of hundreds of students, myself included, and you're helping people be empowered for a life of kingdom impact. Yes, we are. Andrew asked me to start the business school in 2011, and so we've graduated a lot of students, and we spend the third-year program in preparing them for business, and we teach them everything God has shown us, how to build a business from a small business to a large company.

So it's really a very unique environment. You know, Andrew has told me many times, he said, I think God sent you to direct the business school because you've got this mixture of ministry and business, which that's what he wanted. And he asked me to teach the pastors financial stewardship, because that's what got him in trouble many, many years ago. That's how he and I really became close, was through his – he was actually bankrupt at one point in time.

You know, Paul Milligan said, you could be debt-free in four to five years, including your home, regardless of what you make. Now, you know, inflation is growing, people are worried. What do we do to be the best steward, but even prepare for the storms that might be coming?

Well, there's a lot of practical things we can do, and we probably don't have time for me to get into all of them, but let's start with some basic steps. The first thing you have to do is you have to understand your own financial picture, okay? So what I mean by that is, if you've got credit card debt, unsecured debt is the worst thing.

It's the bondage that you're in. If you have a home mortgage, if you have a car payment, if you have these things, then you're going to have to organize them and understand what you have. And then I encourage them to take the smallest debt they have – not the largest, the smallest – and you work on it first. You want to take excess income and pay that on your smallest debt.

You'll get it paid off quicker because it's smaller, and it'll give you confidence and encouragement to go to the next debt. And so if they could get my Basic Sends program, I actually have a piece of software that they just input the information, and it does this for them, and they can actually get that – Alex, I mean, I don't mean to promote a product. That's not what we're doing.

But they can get it on the Harris Bible College website. It's called Basic Sends. And I go into great detail how they can use – how they can generate excess income to pay this debt off. Once you get the smallest debt paid off, you take the minimum payment you were paying on that one, includes your excess, and then you start on the next one. And once you pay that one off, you take – now you're rolling. You've got some extra cash coming out of those minimum payments as you pay those debts off, and you finally get to your mortgage. And it can be done in five to seven years.

That's not hype. I've done this over and I've got testimonies from all over the world of people who've got out of debt in five to seven years doing exactly what we're saying. And you say, well, you know what? It's going to take me five years to get out of debt. It's going to take you five years anyway. You're going to be alive five years from now.

You just as well be out of debt. Amen. You know, have you ever heard of the name Jay Strack?

I have. I heard him say years ago, he said one of the principles of the Word of God is what you need, give it away. Now that sounds counterintuitive, but the Bible says if a man would have friends, he must show himself friendly. And so if you – and believe me, I know a lot of Christians are uncomfortable with this kind of talk. But if you need money, be a giver so into people and ministries. And it is just like if you want – I'm a farm boy, Paul. If you want a corn crop, you've got to plant corn. And so elaborate.

We've only got a couple of minutes and we've got a visit again soon. How does it work that we give away what we really need? Well, it's a principle in the kingdom of God. God has set up His kingdom to operate that way. And because God – it's actually – it's born out of love, right? I love you and I bless you, and God can't help himself.

He's going to bless you back. And it's just a principle of love in relationship with God. And it's so much fun, it's so much joy in operating that way. But what people have to learn to do is, you know, sometimes Christians have to learn to receive as well as give. Like I said, this kingdom economy works on giving and receiving opposite of the world, which works on buying and selling. Now we've taught people how to give. Did you know it's just as important to receive?

It's just as important – because that closes the connection, the loop. Once that happens, then God blesses that relationship. It's just a magnificent thing to see happen. But I've watched it – you know, you cannot out-give God. I don't care what you do.

I don't care how much you give. You know, it's interesting, Alex, one time God told me I had an asset that I was going to sell. And I was well on my way, you know, to do what I had to do to sell this asset. And it was worth a good bit of money. And so the last day I had to go do some things to make this happen.

I won't get into the detail because we don't have the time. But the Lord spoke to me. He said, Son, that asset is more valuable to you to give away than it is to sell.

And it just floored me. More valuable to – so God was telling me, if you'll give it away, it's part of my plan for your life. I'll bless you more than if you sold it and received the value in terms of money.

And that's what I did. I just gave it away. So now I really listen to God about what am I to do with my assets, not just my money.

And sometimes your asset is worth more giving it away than it is selling it. Amen. You know, we're out of time.

This is just riveting. I want to close, folks, with this. And I want to encourage you, pray about your finances and obey the Spirit. If you will let the Spirit of God speak to you. And you've heard our testimony, Angie and I, we've watched God grow us up from newlyweds with barely the shirt on our back to being able to minister all around the world. Now, the Bible says that God wants you to prosper even as your soul prospers. How much does your soul prosper as a born-again Christian?

Immeasurably. God wants to bless and use you that way as well. So take Him at His word and trust Him. We'll resume this talk very soon. But in the meantime, may God bless you. Tell somebody about truth for a new generation, but most of all, tell somebody about Jesus. That's 877-YES-GOD-1.

That's 877-YES-GOD and the number 1. Or give online at AlexMcFarland.com. While you're there, listen to Program Archives, read Alex's blog, invite Alex to speak at your event, or contact Alex with a question or comment, AlexMcFarland.com. Thanks for listening today and join us again next time for more Truth for a New Generation on TNG Radio.