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One Christian's Ongoing Cancer Journey.

The Steve Noble Show / Steve Noble
The Truth Network Radio
May 18, 2023 1:42 pm

One Christian's Ongoing Cancer Journey.

The Steve Noble Show / Steve Noble

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May 18, 2023 1:42 pm

One Christian's Ongoing Cancer Journey.

Steve talks to Dr. Brian Vogt from BJU Seminary about how he believes God gave him cancer and how he is dealing with it.

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The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network.

And now, here's your host, Steve Noble. Today, way too many of us, which is sad but true, have some level of personal involvement with cancer, be it you yourself, perhaps somebody in your immediate family, extended family, a mom, a dad, God forbid, a son or a daughter, a friend, a neighbor, a co-worker, somebody at church. Cancer seems to be something that, unfortunately, the vast majority of us cannot escape on this fallen and broken world. But how do you kind of work through that? How do you handle it as an individual Christian, which isn't always pretty and isn't always what we might hope it would be as we cling to the Lord and cling to his word and try to live out his theology in our lives. But how do you handle it from a theological perspective? There's your personal experience and journey through cancer. And then there's wrestling with all the things that you can wrestle with in terms of God's providence and God's goodness and suffering. Is there any value in suffering? Is there any value in somebody going through cancer, be it short term or long term?

It takes a life, it impacts a life for years, whatever the case may be. So cancer is something that is a very, very heavy subject, which is why when I got the notice that we were going to be talking about cancer today, I was deeply grateful. I don't think on a Theology Thursday in six or seven years of doing these types of shows that we've ever actually done something like this. So when I got the email that Dr. Brian Vogt would be back on the show as part of the science department at Bob Jones University to share his own cancer journey, which is ongoing. Boy, Brian, I'm just so thoughtful that you're willing to do this.

And it's something that touches so many lives. I think it's way better that we talk about it than not. But it's great to see you again. Thanks for being here. Oh, it's great to be here, Steve.

So glad to be on your show. So this is, you know, we'll go down several different theological roads here when we get to that. But I'd rather just start just kind of with you, Brian, sharing your own journey and what kind of cancer when it started, what's going on as a result of that, and family and work and everything else. But just your own cancer journey, maybe going back to the first time you found out and you got that diagnosis. Sure.

Yeah. So in 2014, I was visiting a friend in Florida to do a little fishing with him. And while I was there, I noticed in the light from their skylight on the mirror in the bathroom, I had a lump on my neck and became immediately concerned and contacted my doctor and got to the doctor as soon as I could. Had surgery to remove that lump. And I sent it to pathology. And then the surgeon calls me. And there's nothing quite like having a doctor say to you, yeah, you've got cancer.

And this is what it is. So I have a type of what is generally called a blood cancer. Leukemia is an example of a blood cancer.

It affects the composition of the cells in your blood. And I have a type of lymphoma called a follicular lymphoma, which affects certain kinds of cells in my body. I probably had that cancer, I'm guessing maybe a year before that. And so I went to see my oncologist for the first time, my cancer doctor for the first time. And we had a talk. And of course, I'm a technical kind of guy.

I teach chemistry and pharmacology, my PhDs in pharmaceutical sciences. And so I have background that I can relate to this. And my oncologist was a very kind guy. And he let me tell him who I am.

And I explained to him, I need to be able to ask you questions. Yeah, because I'm a scientist. Right. That's right.

That's who I am. And he said, there's no problem with it, you know. And he went on to tell me he could treat it immediately and knock. This is in my lymph nodes. If you do a PET scan of somebody with cancer in their lymph nodes, it shows up as little bright spots in the scan. And it's very sensitive. So you can find cancer very easily if it's there. And he said, you know, I could treat you right now.

And I can knock that those lymph nodes down, but it's not going to make any long term difference. And he recommended doing what's called watchful waiting. And sometimes it's called watch and wait.

There's a number of terms. But the odd thing about if you agree to do this is you just let the cancer go in your body. Now, that's kind of a weird thing. Yeah, that's like somebody just somebody living in your house. That's exactly right.

That's a good analogy. And they're in there. Right. And you know that their intent is not to help you in the kitchen. That's right.

When are they going to clobber you? Right. But you know, he told me about the clinical trials that demonstrated that with my lymphoma at the stage it was in at that point in time, the clinical trials demonstrate that there's no long term gain in treating it right then because of the stage it was in. Yeah. So, you know. Do you believe that? Right. Yeah, it sounds like. Come on.

Most of us, when we hear cancer, we're not thinking a mild. Right. At one point in time, I said to him, you know, I'd I'd really like to see the journal article that that clinical trial that you're referring to so I can see what that means data wise. Yeah. And you know, I got it and I read it and sure enough, he's right. So I made the decision in 2014 to just let the cancer in my body go and eat him every now and then.

Yeah. So initially it was every few months and then we lengthened it a little bit. And after a few years, I said to him, I said, you know, this needs to be going pretty well.

What do you say we do this only once a year? And he said, yeah, I think we can do that. A fewer tests, fewer visits, et cetera is a good, good thing because I could see that the cancer was stable. Every time I go to see this guy, there are blood tests that are done.

Yeah. You look at certain things and so things are going along really smoothly. And then at my regularly scheduled annual visit with him in October last year. Welcome back to Steve Noble, the Steve Noble show Theology Thursday with our friends at BJU Seminary. Today, Bob Jones University with Dr. Brian Vogt, who's back in the house, who works down in the sciences there at Bob Jones University and the chemistry faculty and has been on the show before with our mutual friend Renton Rathbun when we start diving into which we were talking about before, Brian. So let's plan some shows in the fall to talk about kind of the intersection of science and theology.

I love that subject. But today, a much more personal yet theologically rich conversation about Brian's own cancer journey, which began back in 2014 and a blood type cancer disorder, which was a stable kind of at a low level. And just something you were, let's watch and see what happens, but not terribly, you know, it's not changing your life every day at that point.

But then things started to change a little last October. Is that right? That's exactly right. So at my regularly scheduled annual visit with my oncologist, he found a small lump below my left ear. And he said, this is probably a lipoma, which is just a it's called a fat tumor, but it's not cancerous.

It's a benign sort of thing. When you see an elderly person with these lumps all over their arms, those are probably lipomas, or in many cases, they are. And so, you know, he said, this is probably lipoma. And then on December 29, which was the Thursday before New Year's, I found a mass on the side of my neck from below my left ear that arced all the way down to near my larynx, my Adam's apple, my voice box. And it was big.

It was growing very rapidly. And that's very alarming. And I, you know, I looked at my left tonsil, and it was truly bizarre in appearance.

It was large, and it looked like somebody had taken a paintbrush and dabbed it in latex paint onto my left tonsil, white latex paint. And, you know, that also is concerning when you see that kind of thing. When you get up in the morning and you notice that it's larger than it was when you went to bed, you know you have a problem on your hands.

And so then the question is, what do you do next? This is not necessarily what they would consider to be a medical emergency, like a heart attack or something else like that. And so how quickly can you get appointments when it's not a medical emergency? Especially when you notice bedtime to morning. Right. The rapidity is alarming. It is, exactly. And so, you know, I started making phone calls and trying to get in touch with people, get in touch with my oncologist's office, get in touch with my primary care provider's office. And how quickly can you handle this?

Was panic part of the story? I mean, neither one of us is like theological Superman. You're not Jesus. I'm not Jesus. I don't, yeah, I don't think super Christians exist, Steve. Yes, thank you. I'm certainly not one.

Me either. So let me, I have to give you just a teeny more backdrop here. Three and a half weeks before I found this lump, my pastor had asked me to preach Sunday morning, January eight at our church. And I told him, yes. And almost immediately after he, I said, yes, the Lord told me that I should speak on God's providence. And I ultimately ended up entitling it, Understand in God's providence. And so I'd been reading, studying, praying, meditating, reflecting on God's providence for three and a half weeks when I found this.

That is not coincidental. And I don't think that there could be a better topic to have been studying when you discover such a thing going on in your body. And so I did not panic because God was working on me so much about how he providentially does things.

And so, I mean, what I did was I called up one of my colleagues in my department and I said, look, we need to meet tomorrow and we need to make, we need to make a plan in case I can't teach next semester. So I did, you know, sometimes a patient has to be their own advocate. So I was making phone calls and phone calls and phone calls.

And I, let me tell you what, it was amazing. In the matter of a few weeks, I had seen my doctor. I'd seen my oncologist. I'd had CT scans, blood tests. I had all sorts of stuff going on rapidly because God was intervening. And when I finally got to sit down with my oncologist, he said to me, you know, we need to get these lymph nodes out of there.

We need to get them out of there right now, maybe next week so that we can analyze them and see what's going on. Yeah, right. You know, and so it happened that way. I had surgery on my neck exactly seven days to the day after I saw my oncologist to remove some lumps from my neck. I've got a nice scar down here now. My students will be authorized to call me Dr. Scar if they want.

I think that'd be cool. But I saw God working, working, working, working. And the scans were concerning. I mean, the pathology report on the lymph nodes was they were cancerous with the same cancer that I'd been diagnosed with in 2014. And then I had the talk with my oncologist. And that talk is, is it time to have treatment?

So he said, I'd like you to see a different oncologist, one that specializes in lymphoma for treatment. And that's probably, that's probably a good place to pause my story, Steve, unless you want me to keep going. No, I want you to share what you feel led to share. Yeah.

So we're playing in two ponds here. There's your, there's your personal experience in walking through this. And then there's the overlay of scripture and theology, right? Intermixed and intermingled with your story.

So that's where I'd like to go next. There's this term Providence, which is actually an older term. One of the classic books on Providence was written by a Puritan guy named John Flavin. Was that his name?

John Flavin. And I got that book. But this is, this is quite a long while ago. And I started having to learn what is, what do we mean by Providence?

And I don't know what you think of Steve Piper, but I decided since he wrote a massive book on Providence and published it recently, that it would make sense if I went and got that book. It's like, it's over 700 pages long. And here I'm preparing for one message on a Sunday morning.

And how am I going to be able to do this? Can you get a Cliff Notes version? Right. I'm going to need a Cliff Notes version of the Cliff Notes version. Hey, the Cliff Notes version is only 340 pages behind. It'll be fine. We're coming up on a break.

So let's use that pause button and pause it right there. We're talking to Dr. Brian Vogt from Bob Jones University and the chemistry faculty, his own cancer journey, intermingled with what does God's words say? What is Providence? Does God give you cancer?

Does he allow cancer? There's so much more to talk about. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.

Welcome back. It's Steve Noble, The Steve Noble Show. Maybe one of my life's goals is to be one of the most irreverent theologians on Christian radio. I know it's kind of going in that direction. Sometimes I'm like, did I just say that I'm talking about cow poop and, and, uh, yeah, well I'm a street level communicator. I'm like a cage fighter.

So get over it. So we need, uh, people like, well, our guest today, Dr. Brian Vogt to help keep us on the, on the road, uh, the straight and the narrow as we talk about. Uh, and Brian, thank you so much for your willingness to share your own cancer journey, which, uh, diagnosis in 2014, pretty stable, low level blood cancer. But in last October it got bad, fast, uh, in surgery and cancer and your lymph nodes.

And so all of a sudden it completely changes, which, which brings to first of all, real quickly, how are you today? And then let's talk about the elephant in the room, which is God's providence. Does he allow cancer? Does he give you cancer? Did you just kind of get out of the way? Hey, we live in a fallen planet and, uh, and poop hits the fan every once in a while.

How do you deal with God's providence in this subject? But just tell us quickly, Brian, cause I know people want to know how you're doing right now. I'm doing great right now.

Praise God. So I had, um, I had four weeks of an engineered antibody treatment, one treatment a week for four weeks, uh, at the end of February and into March. Um, pretty major effect on me. I stepped away from campus for nine weeks because fatigue, my immune system has been seriously compromised.

Um, uh, major insomnia caused by the treatment. And it's, you know, I have fantastic colleagues in my department that took over my responsibilities. Um, but the question you always have to ask yourself is how effective is the treatment? Right.

Of course. And so on Monday this week I had, it's called a pet scan, which has nothing to do with my dogs. Um, but basically what that does is it allows us to look to see do we have any bright spots in my body that indicate the presence of an accumulation of cancer cells, masses of cancer cells. So I went to my oncologist yesterday afternoon. In fact, this is a very timely moment to be having this discussion, Steve.

And we talked about that, the analysis of that pet scan and what it means. And, um, there are zero places in my body where I have large masses of cancer cells now. They are all gone. Thank you Lord.

Amen. Now I do still have follicular lymphoma. I still have cancer cells floating around in my body. I'll still be going to my oncologist to see how things are going.

But you know, so this is a hard thing. You know, you, you get the next surgery, then you have the treatments and you're struggling with the treatments and you wonder if you're going to be able to afford it. If the insurance covers it. Thank the Lord.

It did. Um, the Lord's actually been funneling money my direction and it's been wonderful to see how God's provide provided. Um, in fact, if you look at the cost side of things, I added it up last night. We're not done yet, but it's, we're pretty much, I think I have most of the costs.

If you consider everything that's happened this year, we're at $220,000 right now. Um, and so, um, at the end of the day, the Lord's taking care of me and I'm starting to feel better, but it's been a slow and I have ups and downs like last week and Wednesday. I felt great in the morning. I went home in the afternoon cause I felt awful.

Yeah. Um, but I'm doing really well. The Lord has met me, but I'm going to still have to deal with this for the rest of my life probably. So the question then is, how am I supposed to think about this?

How do I deal with it on a daily basis? We know Brian's part, we know cancer's part, but what's God's part. Exactly. And so there's so much information out there about God's providence. Essentially, how does God carry through on his promises to take care of his people and to fulfill his purpose? And the reality is God's purpose cannot be frustrated.

It's impossible. It always comes out to play. But then there's the big question. Did God give me my cancer?

Right. And so, um, I think I'd like to look at Lamentations three 38. That's the first thing when I got this email, it's the first thing I did. I'm looking at the bullet points and I'm like, Steve, do you have that? Oh, your Bible opened that right now. Why don't you go ahead and read it? Does God providentially bring problems into our lives? Did God providentially give me cancer?

That's a, that's a question most people don't want to deal with. And then you reference Lamentations three 38. I didn't know it, so I went to it and it says this, Is it not from the mouth of the most high that good and bad come from his mouth? Which means he's in control of it. The most high, obviously the God of the Bible, God of universe that good and bad come, which sounds like it comes from him, which is not a comfortable thought for me.

No, no, it's not because the reality is all of us, when something bad happens, we wonder what went wrong. And so here's how my thinking has progressed in this. And in light of that verse, this is consistent, my thinking is consistent with that verse. I don't like the term, and I'm not trying to offend anybody, but I don't like the term God's perfect will. Because it makes me think, so what's true of the rest of his will?

Is it not perfect? And I actually really don't like the term God's permissive will either, because to me that makes it sound like God is weak. But if I think in terms of God having a providential purpose in what he does in my life, it starts to make sense. So do I actually think that God gave me my cancer? And the answer is yes, I do. You might think that sounds cruel.

I don't. Because God never does anything without purpose. And it has been his providential purpose for me to have an absolutely crazy year, a very challenging, difficult year. But I have seen God do a lot through this.

There's a friend of mine—he was a friend, not a great friend—died of stomach cancer at 39. And at his funeral, God just kind of dropped this phrase into my mind and my spirit, and the phrase was, Mike—this gentleman I'm talking about—Mike was a good steward of his affliction. And his affliction is stomach cancer, which was incredibly painful.

It was amazing to watch all the fruit that God pulled off that tree for a year and a half. And I saw Mike being a good steward of that affliction, and I've always looked at affliction and trouble and sickness the same way since then. I just wasn't comfortable enough to go to where you went and say, OK, Mike was a great steward of his affliction. We all should be.

Where did the affliction come from? And that's where nobody really wants to go there. But if God's permissive will, which gives you this little thought that he's kind of standing at the plate, and no matter what kind of ball we throw at him, he's going to hit it. But that means he's not really in control of the ball. And I don't like that. Right. That sounds like a little less than what we should think of God, who we normally would say he's got control over everything, but then what he does versus does he control the ball as it's coming across the plate? Exactly. And this is a question I've been faced with. Yeah, of course. So can I share a few? Can I share some ways in which God has been clearly involved in this? All right.

So I want to back up to August last year, a week before classes started. And, you know, I'm 67 now and my students are not. And, you know, I just finished my 40th year of teaching here at Bob Jones, Steve.

And I have this sense of there is a generational gap. I'm pretty sure I can teach them effectively, but can I disciple them effectively? And so I went to the Lord in prayer one one morning and prayed with all my heart. Steve, I've never I mean, I was as genuine and as sincere and as earnest as I think it's possible for Brian vote to be in prayer. And I said to him, Lord, use me in the lives of my students.

And this cancer thing was his answer. So what does that mean? So, for example, Steve, when you have a bunch of students praying for the same thing, that's always good and there's always growth.

Yeah. And I've had students and colleagues and administrators and executives praying for me. That's a good thing. I've had students who have been forced to reflect on the realities of life. And before I left cancer, I told my student campus I told my students about what was going on with my cancer. And I looked him at the face in the face and I said, look at me.

Does it look like I'm freaking out? And the answer was no, I'm not because the Lord is with me. He will never leave me and he won't forsake me.

And Steve, he's given me grace to have peace in my heart. Yeah. And he doesn't, you know, I think Grace is like manna. It's not like, you know, you get the man you need for that moment. Right. I don't have like this big dump truck full of grace and I say, you know, back it up to my bedroom and dump it on.

Yeah. You know, but he gives me what I need. So when you hold that thought, we're up against the break.

What you need when you need it every single time. We'll be right back. Welcome back at Steve Noble, The Steve Noble Show Theology Thursday with our friends at Bob Jones University today with Dr. Brian Vogt. You know, it's May 18th, so Memorial Day is right around the corner.

So all the pools are getting ready to open. And and we've jumped literally right into the deep end of the pool with this conversation today with Brian as we look at his. And thank you, Brian, for sharing your own cancer journey, which is ongoing, very, very difficult to last six or eight months.

And by God's grace, doing better. But now we're wrestling with what perhaps the most difficult aspect of this, which is where's God's providence in all of this? And does he allow cancer? Is it his permissive will? Does he actually send cancer into your body in order to accomplish his will and to bring him glory and to affect change in the lives of people, both believers and unbelievers?

That's where a lot of us don't want to go. And we don't want to we're not comfortable with a God that would actually, quote unquote, do something like that. But that's why we brought up Lamentations three thirty eight, which is like the good and the bad stuff both proceed from God's mouth, didn't go around his mouth.

It came out of his mouth, which meant that he was in control of it. We were talking on the break, Brian, about Job. And Job was not the devil's idea.

Job was God's idea. And then you mentioned the end of Luke three. You've got the Trinity right there.

Boom. And the baptism of Jesus. What an incredible moment. And then the spirit leads him out to suffer and to be attacked. That wasn't God's permissive will allowing that to happen. It was the spirit.

God himself led Jesus into that confrontation with the devil, that that trouble with the devil, if you will. So it's a it's a difficult concept because a lot of us aren't comfortable going there. It is a very difficult concept. And it took a lot of trouble to get me through this.

Yeah, I'm sure. But I mean, the language, the way I think about this, which is the only way I'm comfortable saying it is it is it is God's providential purpose for me to be dealing with my cancer. And I think this latest flare up, which resulted in all these tests and scans and doctor's visits and surgery and and treatment and et cetera, et cetera. This has been his purpose for for Brian votes life right now.

And it is not arbitrary at all. It is very purposeful. So let me remind you that in August I asked the Lord very genuinely to use me in the in the lives of my students, no matter what. And his answer was for me to have this flare up.

Yeah. Students have been praying for me. People of church have been praying for me.

People have been asking me about my welfare. But there's an example here. OK, if you go back to John nine, where the disciples said to the Lord, so who sinned here, this man or his parents that he was born blind? And of course, the Lord's response was neither. This happened so that God's works could be made manifest in his life. And Brian votes cancer happened so that God's works could be made manifest in his life.

What do those works look like? Well, they look like I'm at peace. I'm not freaking out. I understand this is from God. I'm watching God use it in the lives of those who care about me, those who pray for me. People on campus, people at my church. And I'm I'm portraying.

To these people. This is what God is doing in my life. I had a student who came to me the last day of final exams. She was in the second semester of a two semester sequence I teach. And she said to me, I just want to share with you briefly how the Lord used you in my life this year. Now, the year started off at the beginning of the first semester with her coming up to me after class one day and saying, you know, I've got a father and a sister who both have these serious medical conditions and the genetic. And there may be times when I'll have to leave class to answer a phone call or go to do something because of this, because my mother and I are their primary caretakers. And I said, you have my blessing.

You go and do whatever you need to do. And then the other bookmark at the end of second semester, she's telling me last summer, I prayed that the Lord would bring a Christian in my life who could show me how to suffer. Now, think about that.

This is a precision answer to prayer. Yes. I was that person. I had no idea. She went on to tell me after I came back.

And maybe before there are just a few times I would share with the class very transparently what was going on in my life. She said every single time you did that was a direct answer to a specific prayer of mine. Wow. I had no idea. Again, there's no such thing as a super Christian.

I'm not one. I'm just a sinner like everybody else. But God does things in our lives to reach out into the lives of others. That is the purpose.

And to demonstrate that God can give grace and can give peace. Grace is one of these things where sometimes God gives me just enough grace to make it possible for me to get through something. And that can be tough. And then there are other times where God makes it possible for you to go through a serious trial like it's no problem at all. And I've only had a few instances of that in my life. But the first few months of this year, Steve, were like that.

It was like fine. That comes, you want to know the Lord. I have a real relationship with a real God. And he's actually with me. And he actually gives me the grace I need. And it's like there was a point where I felt, I know this can sound arrogant, okay?

But I'm going to say it anyway. There was a point where I felt invincible. And my thinking was nothing, nothing, nothing could happen to me unless it's within the domain of his purpose. And that gave me, he gave me such a sense of his presence and a sense of peace and strength that could only come from him.

Well, when the scriptures say that you can be anxious for nothing, that you can actually have a peace that surpasses all understanding, it's not a campaign slogan. No, that's right. It's like a present reality that is available. That's right. And so it's not like a pie in the sky.

No, it isn't. And that's where, you know, what he does and, you know, understanding the invincible thing. And I don't take that as an arrogant statement.

I think I understand where you're coming from, because you just know, hey, you're not the guy, he is. And I'm totally comfortable with his providence and his will and his control. And ultimately, it's for my good, his glory, and other people are going to benefit too. And so I often say, you know, as a Christian, you should, Brian, you're like a Walmart distribution center. Well, what's supposed to stay in a Walmart distribution center?

Nothing. Right. Whatever gets put in the distribution center has to get sent out.

Yeah, that's good. So you're the distribution center. That's right. That's a good analogy. In this case, your distribution center is painted with the C word, and it's about your cancer journey and everything he puts into you.

He wants to turn around and send it back out. That's exactly right. And that's an awesome thing. And how humbling is that? Well, you know, I think I think that the Lord uses is probably more than we realize. Sometimes we know that he's using us to some extent.

I think it's probably a good thing that we don't know the full extent. But the other another element of this is the walk of faith is easy to talk about. It's not so easy to carry through on. And I would refer to that first and Philippians where Paul's talking about knowing the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of his sufferings. I like the first part of that, but I'm not so keen on the second part. But he gives the grace to deal with the second part. And that's I mean, this is an instance of I can never suffer like Christ.

I'm only going to get a taste of his suffering, a little teeny taste. So, you know, in the walk of faith, the walk of faith demands a certain amount of ignorance. You know, if it isn't if there isn't ignorance and a lack of knowledge, you're not walking by faith. And so you get in a situation like this that I've been in and you don't know how it's going to play out. I mean, you really don't.

And all sorts of things go through your mind. But at the end of the day, the walk of faith means, yes, he's righteous. His decisions are right. Everything he does is right. He has no bad motive. He has no bad purpose. Everything is purposeful, not accidental.

And when you do that, by God's grace, you walk by faith and it is a wonderful thing. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. And that's and that's where that to use your phrase, that that sense of invincibility comes into play, because I'm like, if we're talking about God and we are, well, he is invincible and whatever he's doing is going to last.

And that's a beautiful thing. We've got about a minute. What would be, Brian, just a final parting thought for the people that are watching or listening now or later who are in the cancer battle like you are? There is no substitute. You go back to the basics like in a sport.

There is no substitute for the basics. You've got to spend time in the word. You've got to spend time in prayer. And I'm talking about personal time.

Yeah. Personal study, personal meditation, personal prayer. You've got to go to the Lord. You've got to go to the fountain. You want to be the fountain out of which waters come, but you don't unless the water is flowing in from the Lord in the first place.

Go to him. Yeah, back back to the basics. And sometimes you go in my own walk at times, I'm like, all I can really do right now is kind of get in the fetal position at the foot of the cross and talk to my dad. And more often than not, that's the best thing I can do. That's exactly right. Get right back to the basics.

You and the Lord through the spirit, through prayer and through his word. And like Brian said, that's what you need. Don't forget that. That's what you need.

That's what he provides. Brian, thank you so much. What a welcome, Steve. What an honor to have you on today and to show that story. Great. Great to be on your side. Great for you as well. You're very welcome. This is Steve Noble on the Steve Noble show. God willing, I'll talk to you again real soon. And like my dad always said, ever forward. Another program powered by the truth network.
Whisper: medium.en / 2023-05-20 16:39:48 / 2023-05-20 16:54:13 / 14

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