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November 21, 2019 9:41 pm
Today talking about Church Planting with Nate Akin, Director of Baptist21, a church planting organization! Hear Church Planting 101 and more on today's Theological Thursday!
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Now here's your host Steve Noble. Funny, I just never done this topic on theology that we done this topic on the show before, probably in a roundabout way, but not directly the topic being church planting and working to talk about that through kind of a an organizational land, something known as a Baptist, 21, and Nate Aiken is here and it did not Danny, not the president of the seminary. This is me. One of Danny's sometimes it seems like your dad has like 15 sons by the way he talks about how it's just for this is, it's great to have you back and now we did the radio, but it's been a while. That was during all the way back to the Republican primaries in a big mess.
It was yes a much easier topic today upside down a lot easier topic so church planting. I go to a church that's real big on church planting will I go to the summit church in Raleigh, North Carolina thousand churches in our generation and planting churches in the should they be foreign, should they be domestic when should you plant a church is your church. It is your church somehow dereliction of duty.
If it does not plan a churches that are requirements or is it optional, but it is a big thing today and and I don't I think is probably a bigger thing for your generation Nate that it is for my and so we seem kind of the shift in the culture and evangelicalism, and especially in the southern Baptist convention. I mean even the North American Mission Board does the whole send initiative which identifying the target is 50 cities a couple years ago when I was paying attention to is 32 cities is a 32 cities. We want to reach and so this is hold the full church planting movement but let's back up a little bit and so people get to know kinda how you came up through this program and getting in a Baptist 21 and and kind of your own background of the church yes so Emily grew up in a suburb assume you guys know my father is so funny just we still get to this day called the Aiken boys were sure about the Aiken boys and I'm like, hey, I'm 38 years, but we certainly love our dad and and so thankful for the stewardship of the of the last name so grew up insert about circles is interesting. You just talking about I don't member church planting, being a thing growing up the back church planting back then was church splitting foresight was hey were mad about hundred of us will even start on thing are you guys you yeah that what we call accidental church plants and unfortunate ones in some sense, so didn't didn't know much about that I was. He again grew up in the church came to seminary in the early 2000's and really just had an old crisis of faith where is like him.
I really Baptist.
What is that mean talk more about that when as it pertains about 21 but really just went to the Scriptures and thought in mind, it is this what's most faithful represent Tatian New Testament and I thought it was and so once I got really connected. That is one of the main things about being Baptist is because the primacy of the local church that we are autonomous, but we we cooperate in seeing that I just I really fell in love with the local church and then thought will be really fun, and would be something that can meets my personality would be explained church and maybe start from the ground up but we think the church look like, rather than going into a place where Juergen have to fix some things and and we need people to do that but you had to fix and things can take a long time to be frustrating is really how I got a heart for church planting ended up being a church here in Raleigh open-door Baptist Church. There was planting churches as well and ended up leaving from there being sent out from there to plant here locally being part of the team there was three pastors to start one of them turning readers probably been on the show he has and we started a church called modern day in the in the summer into the fall of 2011 and so and I can talk more about medicine will best kind of my how I got thrown into church planting really got a love for the local church, which since bond okay let's let's try to replicate what we think are healthy churches right yeah and then I think I will go through some terms terminology is important because people really plant a church versus started church. Do you a few churches in it is planting an extension of itself with its own people is that a church plant versus starting a church and all that stuff matters, but it is interesting and you mention this even growing up. This wasn't a topic I don't think this is a topic 30 years ago.
I don't even know the topic 20 years ago is a big topic now is just your generation.
Well, I think that people saw that this is this is biblical that we need to start more churches because we saw churches in decline, and we saw young your brothers who didn't want to go in and do the revitalization thing and so some of it came out of angst. Some of it came out of a week. We think this is the pattern of the New Testament again Aiken I love to talk about the theology and the end of the biblical nature of it but I don't think it's just our generation.
I just think is more prevalent in our general yeah I think that there are people in past generations that did church planting. It just wasn't as sexy. Then it was and is talked about. Then there certainly weren't the books that we have now and all the resort now and it did. Now you can start a website and then if your website gets an attraction. You can have a conference and so you can create your content to build a movement because electronically we have the ability to do that. Whereas we know. Otherwise we wouldn't be here church planning's been going on for 2000 year absolutely and and and going on and in a faithful and healthy way. It just has exploded whereas social media has expanded and other things as have been more apparent and I think it it just occurred to me. It's also I think a very appropriate reaction to the fact that we are living in a country that is increasingly secularized even though you still have 74, 75% of Americans will self identify as Christian.
I got to do is scratch the veneer of that bullet. Why do you call yourself a Christian, they find a really quick that most people are cultural Christians arching up born-again biblical Christians and so they were there they how do we react to look to a country that's kinda left us behind in terms of America having a deep Christian heritage and roots.
I don't go so far as to call America. Generally, a Christian nation, but it was a big deal.
Big part of our of our country's history and all of a sudden when we can throw that out the window when we do do we entrench take care of ourselves discounted take care of our own house and we go hey you know what, let's push back and go invest more and that's the again that's the pattern of the New Testament and they were in a much more hostile environment that I think we are in. Certainly now we have been in and so that is the pattern of the New Testament in II just think churches need to be about this particularly because you had a brother say this to me from Scotland about now is been about six months ago actually hit me really hard because I thought when he says this about Scotland. This is true of America and against what you were saying. He said in Scotland. There are many including quotations Christians. He said many, he said, just like this. They wear the badge with they do not carry the cross and I think that is exactly what we have here in America which means even I don't get ahead of where we want to go with church planning, but the need is greater than we even think when it comes to church but yes there are a lot of churches so-called churches that don't carry the cross. They don't preach the gospel. They are maybe prosperity light to prosperity heavy and so we need to plant churches you think that is about to say the exact same thing. We may have 3300 30,000 churches in America but I put air quotes around that and how many of them are actually biblical churches denominationally go United Methodist Church Episcopalian PC USA will write down that road. I do okay you know what they close the better.
But what's gonna be there to take their place in real church will talk about that only come back to Steve Noble showed his theology Thursday with our friends at Southeastern Baptist theological seminary, and while we don't have the Aiken you're used to hearing how we have one that's a lot younger and a lot more hip and a lot more. You know he's a better taste in shirts that will exhibit cool say when shirt on today absolutely which is for our friends on Facebook like you see this, but what, what's the reference because I want people to be in life. Yes, it's owned by one of the top five movies of all time, called tombstone and Doc Holliday steals the show how humor steals the show. Any he has several one-liners that you can quote but want this one is when a guy wants to challenge many exists and makes a Wednesday when I'm ready to go and nothing Aiken family think you are right that we love them in the family movie thing absolutely little family does the same thing except they lose their last name of Star Wars is heavily invested in where were big stores goes to so that's all cool like that guy I knew you where I did so, it would you say that you're in and out take your dad on this. Next, Amazon would you say he's on a scale from 1 to 10 how much of the Star Wars I'd say he's a seven, it's interesting really introduced us to it, but he's not as into it now as we are. So I guess part of because we group it was our childhood were still big on you but yes he's into it. He does not intro to the degree you think that he thinks he's matured-yet he's I think he's like I'm an original on the original hiding the SQL really understand where talking again Aiken today and were talking about church planning in general also want to talk about Baptist 21 because, as you look at this over and at this spend some time in the theology of it is church planting something that the Scriptures would say at a boy. Go get him.
Or is it something that's more of a modern phenomenon and where I K you know we just it's kinda like wanting to build your your likes on your Facebook page or to get more followers on twitter and Instagram and so were just trying to reach more people and bring more people and because it makes us feel good, although I think that the odd theological case court is pretty simple but needs done not been involved in church planning as well personally as as a pastor and something's come come through the system.
Here at Southeastern and work with some local churches and also works at Baptist 21 so when we go to the Scriptures.
I would like to think this is pretty obvious but but help us unpack. Yeah, I think you're about to give directions coming. We certainly don't have a command so you distinguish that there's not a command plant churches.
There is a command make disciples, which I think is enough of a command for us to say we need to plant churches mean Paul plays this out when Paul goes on his missionary journeys.
He's not just trying to make converts and he is try to make disciples, but he knows the best way to make disciples not just for that generation. But to make disciples for successive generations is to plant churches until the end goal of Paul is to plant churches not just to go and see people safe which that is a massive piece sure what the reason we plant churches because that's where discipleship is going to happen.
So I would just argue there's two things when I make an argument for why we should do church planting and want him to say to anybody that skeptical of this.
The reason you are a Christian is because people pointed churches at the same if you like your church maven planted 100 years ago, but it was planted by somebody and you're Christian because as Abby, that is become one that I would argue from it theologically and then just pattern as our dimension theologically, the church is just talked about in so many metaphors New Testament interest of the beauty of the church is seen throughout bride of Christ body of Christ, the household of God. First Timothy but the two I really come to when it comes to church planning would be Matthew 16 and Matthew 18. The church is been given the keys of the kingdom to the advance of the kingdom is somehow tied to the local church and there's a maybe obscure passage of Ephesians chapter 3 it talks about how the church will be unfolding the manifold wisdom of God's abilities and powers.
So if that by nature the church is an advancing thing is an unveiling thing is it's connected to the advance of the kingdom church planting has to happen and then you don't have the theology you have the pattern they enact chapter 13 Paul and Barnabas are sent out from the church in Antioch and they go on what most people call the Paul's first missionary journey and the again.
The end goal of what they do. The pattern of what they do is they don't just go on a mission trip to see people get say they go on mission trips to certainly make disciples, but when they start making disciples. They immediately gathered them into local churches because that is how discipleship is in heaven. And that's all events of the kingdom is good happen in again.
How does the church get from Jerusalem in A.D. 30 to Raleigh north Carolina 2019 people been doing this for 2000 years and we are the beneficiaries of yeah and I think you look at all Paul's letters Susie writing letters to the church is any plan that is and where is he trying to go back to church in any way on the right Roman say to come to you and he did plant Roma he's on to come to you so that you will send me on so that I can plant more churches in Spain which is so cool when you think about, especially when we both put in the context of hey if you're a believer today. That's as a result of church planting.
That's goes back 2000 years. Paul gets to Rome and lo and behold, there is Artie believers absolutely did you pass me on the highway. I did notice you have. You guys get here will the explosion in the New Testament is really interesting as I think even in our day church planning is really done by experts and done by professionals, but it in acts.
There was a sense in which the scattering because of persecution. People went all over the Roman world and started churches and so that's that's certainly what our earliest churches did and I think it's it's it's incumbent upon us to do the same thing.
I think in those first 300 years and and Nate and I were talking about the soft air about the future what's going on here in America is the country becomes increasingly more secular and eventually just like going back. I mentioned this off the air to you which you can only have that conversation if you're on Facebook live with us but you'll hate hate okay. We had put that the Star of David on all the Jews.
So we know you are one day in the future in this country. It's probably gonna be a big deal. We are talking about Chick-fil-A thing out what church do you go to your one of those and it's gonna start to cost you something in the culture and in the marketplace. But when we look at what happened back then leading up to today go okay and this is what I'm trying to the plan of action trying to make here is is you see chart plant a church because you need that community because you don't have a lot of other friends and those only negative secret decoder ring, you got the Holy Spirit start understand spiritual truths and you gotta have other people which led Scripture say don't don't neglect that the coming together and in the afternoon.
It's almost by necessity corsets by calling by discipleship, but there's a necessity there to and in again mean I'm a guy who traveled overseas and been able to see church planning efforts internationally in places where we don't have the freedoms we have in America ever. There is outside pressure and even outside persecution of the church.
It's a big deal to lose your local church.
So for instance, in an American context. For the most part.
Church discipline doesn't mean anything because you can go right on the street sure church but church discipline in China means everything because I'm to be now disconnected from my family like where there's again relational harmony. There's friends who are holding me accountable there's there's love. I can't just go down the street and find the next thing I think were headed. I again don't want to just freak out but I were headed that direction shares it's unquestionable that were headed in that direction. And so the importance of the local churches, only to get more important. That means we also need to plant more healthy communities like that for people all over the state yeah I just United States all absolutely but it all here in the American context. That's why we mentioned this before in the last segment and we have three and 3300 50,000 cortical churches in America but as those fall away because a lot of those are full churches. At this point, including entire denominations and I'm never hesitant to talk about that on the air. What's going to be there is tremendous opportunity is still a lot of people that have spiritual thoughts they have cortical spiritual lies, but they need the real McCoy. They don't need a fake.
They need the real real truth and we gotta be there, which means we have to get to them which means that the plant more good church and just lay people by listening to this don't know price of the stories unknown but in melodic context and you go to the northeast of the Northwest. These dying churches that were there turning into returning in the bars you are turning into hotels there there there there and there is no gospel presence there any longer and into a lot of church plants in in tough places what their child do is get these and abandon church buildings in order to then now plant a gospel church. This can actually guideline the hotel to have a funny way to do it with. We should be a lot more like the Catholic Church. That way you think might we better care of our real estate. Instead of selling it down the river to a commercial real estate developers can return it in the condos. Let's get a healthy church and there take something that will probably gonna get off some else's hands and it's a good financial move. It also keeps the gospel move will be right back in the same manner you want to keep your stuff your stuff and don't go down the road with Jesus. Don't do that because you don't have to pick up your cross, you don't have to deny yourself. You don't have to be generous, you just want to keep it all.
That's it's like the prosperity gospel. I guess if you want to do the prosperity gospel. I stay away from Jesus because I always wanted in and it was interesting talking to Nate Aiken today I'm going down a totally side road. So Connie West was that a liquid church last week.
Okay, I never goes ballistic.
He looks like he's a believer now.
While some awesome similarly goes to Joe listing church.
All is in your toes, but Kanye West is sharing the truth in Joel seems church Joel O'Steen. At one point actually puts the basic elements of the gospel on the table and exited going there. Connie is preaching repentance, which is probably the most repentance has been preached in Joel Jerry Jordan ever answered on listening to Paul going hey hey Paul, what about this guy. What about the other guy pause like a man is Jesus being preached. Yep okay cool get over you really cannot get this relationship and got Connie and there they did a three hour Sunday service that Sunday nights crazy. I love these call people to repentance.
That is just as much first thing Peter does first thing I'm talking to Nate Aiken today about church planting Amy on Facebook live.
Thanks for saying that she was so excited that were talking about church planning. It's a huge need, and we've always done it.
You would be a Christian if there were an church planning going on now it's more I now use some aggressive terminology kind of a cottage industry. We have websites we have. Organizations are a talk about Baptist 21 but making up the theological case for church planning is is easy to do now at strategy so as we move forward is the right time to plant, should we all be planting as a church. Somehow dereliction of duty. If they're not plantings.
Let's talk about strategy where we go, what were doing and talk about Baptist 21 to Connecticut's important resource. Yeah, I know else are best when one person we can talk strategy matters 21 started now over 10 years ago, a group of guys. My brother being one to another being one and some other brothers we just really got burden. We saw a lot of young guys leaving the SBC very angry didn't like what they were seeing and we were like hey you know we can resonate with some of the things you're upset about the SBC is not perfectly, SBC has some blind spots that need to be addressed.
We would not agree with everything is happening but there is a lot of good things here and also most of us will receive the gospel in a Southern Baptist Church and so we were saying to these guys is interesting as you talk in the break about the word when some when we started Baptist 21 weeks decided they were to be a group of young guys that stay in the SBC we are gonna talk about what we like rims but we don't like aware and try to do so with a winsome voice and for whatever reason the Lord blessed, for whatever reason, we realized there are tons of young, so the members have the same heartbeat. We realize that almost right away. So what we're not saying anything different than a lot of young guys are saying and so people gravitate to the Lord showed favor to us and that we do an event every year the SBC lunches a lunch for pastors and we normally have 1015 hundred and which is the one that is the largest non-SBC entity gathering Toxic so it's the Lord has blessed and we do we we would have conversations about what it means to be Madison's way for centuries about us. We want to talk mean you have to be 21 years old I was. We want to talk about what it means to be Baptist in the 21st century. That certainly includes what we would say is the primacy of the local church and we see that played out in church pointing out Becky on Facebook live is a great point because a lot of things that we should have on the table here because it's not a one-size-fits-all. And it's not a one strategy solves the problem and really get saved in Jesus comes back in world having a party. Should we talk about revival in prayer for revival and that's another huge thing and then also understand what's in awakening versus revival revivals inside the church awakenings for the lost.
That's where he seen that a couple of times in America for church planning, factors and all of that. If you have revival, you have churches that are ready to disciple people carry that work forward. And then if you're planting churches that could help even revival because get more people pray and get serious about their faith. Yeah Ashley me again. You need the church to do discipleship is not gonna happen without saints that are committed to one another is one of things about getting involved in an church planting and then seeing young people come to the church where things get often is memberships not biblical site will actually the word is in prescriptions 12 and there is clear connection between the brothers and sisters in the church. You need that God knew we needed that for accountability for sharpening for strengthening and so yes there is not revival going on.
We need to do church planning if there is revival going on. We need to do church acting yeah it's all part of the same picture so I strategy should every church plant.
So I would say it like this. I don't think you're commanded by stories of this. I don't think you are commanded to plant, but I think the healthiest churches plant churches and what's interesting and I'll get into the strategy the churches that are planting churches are the churches that grow it's counterintuitive. I noticed some but the churches that are not planning churches are the churches that are typically declining and that is it's almost like God wanted us to be on mission. Yeah, it's like that as Americans in the pages of the outer edge of the churches that are committed to those things are the churches nursing life and vibrancy and health and and they're the ones that multiply and so I think every church. I don't know if you need to be always planting a church every year. I don't mean that every church needs to have as a goal. We are going to move to a place where we can multiply ourselves and I think sometimes you know you you're at a large church and it's easier for summit to do church planting, but I think another near the small church you think I can't do this. How can we do this is a hate because you have the wrong view church. It doesn't mean that you had to plant a church that runs a thousand. It's okay to plant a healthy church in some towns that starts off with 30 people chose to 50 people, but it's faithful itching people come to Christ and also I would just encourage people is the reason we have cooperation. The SBC and mega church like Summit can do church planning on its own and do it faithfully and do it really well. But there's nothing wrong with three or four small churches getting together and doing church planting together identifying a place in their community and saying that needs a healthy gospel. Just let's send five or so people from each church and let's start something there so it can happen.
It is can look small and that's okay.
That's okay, healthy small churches that we don't necessarily ask at the you're in a dangerous place when you're trying to measure God's blessings by how many people are in the seats. It can be deep. It does not have to be why.
Sometimes it can be wise to not be deep sometimes it's both. But again, I also want to dispel this is part of the strategies of the go. Why do we keep planning churches in America where we have so many different churches is because a lot of the churches in America actually are not churches will stats play out. And I'm not always a big step A step play out that we need 1200 healthy church a year to keep up with population population growth that we would argue we need as we been saying we need much more because most churches are not healthy and so we need a lot more than that. So I think churches should be strategizing and honestly you can take the pattern of acts in acts. What happens is Antioch is fasting and praying in the Holy Spirit, says Janita set Paul and Barnabas apart for this work. I think of a church is committed to church planting. They don't have to have some grand strategy note like I have clear resources to help with strategy.
I think they need to get together.
I think they need to pray and fast you, Lord, what would you have us do and and you would be amazed at what the Lord puts on your heart. As far as what your mission should look like your church how absolutely and then you go right back to the early church was that he lets us hang on the upper room here but still we got Holy Spirit that's awesome and we saw Jesus at school is out here, that's a bummer, but here we are. This is a good thing and let's us stay sorry and in the spirit comes around the yeah absolutely.
And so I think they're forced out.
I think churches can come together. I think small church. You do this.
Large churches certainly can do this in the way I would go about it. I think that was most faithful is certainly the beginning step aside as a mission fast fasting and prayer, how or how would you use us, where would you put a burden on us as far as where to some people and then I think it's incumbent upon every church. I would think this is a command is incumbent upon every church to raise up leaders in their church are not just leaders who are to be pastors or elders of that church, but those they're gonna send out to me again. Second Timothy 22 is a wonderful tax way. Paul is telling Timothy in the presence of many witnesses pass on to faithful men what I've taught you well that's what we need to be doing so.
Certainly pastors need to be making disciples, but pastors also need to be replicating pastors. I think that's the call. It's interesting we talk about this a lot in modern day and Southern Baptist circles when you get interviewed for a pastoring job. It's always okay how big was the church are coming from right. How many baptisms you have less your what was your budget, they never ask how many men did you mentor last stressor and it seems like if Paul was asked why we should lead to Christ. Yeah, exactly.
It seems like if Paul was interviewing you for potential pastor jumping say how many men did you train last year that are to be leaders in your church as well and so I think that's the next step after prayer and fasting. After Lord puts his burden on your heart. I think it's start raising up leaders in your villa send out to do church planting will you find the people that are replicating are ready absent yet absolute. Those were arty making disciples is we do this with international missions. We refuse to send people international, just as they said they thought they were called me an injection or we waited to see. Are you actually making disciples.
Now are you reaching out to non-Americans now. If you're not doing that now nothing that changed as we fly you over to India. Yeah, do not try to reach Indians here in in Raleigh where there's tons of condominium.
What makes me think your to do that when you yeah we have to be good stewards of all of these things and you don't just have got a calling.
Okay good sign them up absolutely is no discernment and no discernment. And again you see the pattern. Paul in and bars the Holy Spirit say no, these guys set them apart that there there there qualified their capable set them apart from his work yet, so I will be on a break here pretty soon I will going to last segment but I want to talk about. As we finish up the conversation. I want to talk about, that the nuts and bolts strategy. How do you pick where to go.
Assuming were being led by the Holy Spirit ourselves are thinking where to go, how you launch what is it look like do you do a satellite campus in your pipe and your own pastor and you go for five or 20 miles down the road to go in another state will keep it domestic for now and then and then kind of how do we populate that in again.
Are we worried about Stefan on other people's ptosis, the nuts and bolts internal ones that effectively church planting whether your pastor is just a member of the church. This is something that we all need to be seriously thinking about getting involved in because it is the great commission.
It is discipleship as this country goes further down the tubes. We have to go further out to reach the lost Steve Noble and Nate Aiken will be right back. Being criminal sidebar conversations, the reaction being to get the attention of people that listen to some of these really gnarly podcasts in American.
Many of them are liberal and I was having lunch with somebody that shall not be named on the air, but he's like man what honey think people can responsible if we get up. The people that listen to these, gnarly liberal knotty podcasts, which are the most downloaded podcasts in America.
By the way, if we can get them to pay attention and listen to what I think there can be like man, who is this SOP and the other person how show who shall remain unnamed said that should be the name of the podcast and I was like okay so that they'll be launching in January and are sitting on a Steve, did you just say SOP yes I did and it does not mean super outspoken Baptist, but all that later when you're ready to launch that in January I'll tell you but we're to talk about podcasts and and made his obvious a very passionate very knowledgeable on this issue of church planting is also what Baptist 21 and does a lot of work with the Baptist 21 podcasts which you can find it pretty much most of the regular podcast platform so you can just go to the Baptist 21 website which is Baptist 21.com Baptist 21 the number 21 don't spell it out.
Baptist 21.com and what you like what you talk about on the podcast. We do a lot of different things. I will interview SBC leaders are interviewed church planters on review pastors we talk about baddest distinctives we talk about church planning strategy talk about mission, whichever SBC politics so we cannot cover the gamut, but really it is getting in that being baddest in the 21st century on, so talk to a bunch of different guys about different things.
Had Amy Whitfield on their talking about the how that the procedures of the SBC before last year because a lot of people to come don't know we don't do parliamentary things anymore have churches and so just trying to give vertically young folks are to be intending the SBC out 101 Kahneman your ears. Are you 10 years I have become a part of process and the thing I want to encourage everybody with even if you're not, you're not pastor you not on staff that can stop then the thing about the Baptist 21 website is because it's so strongly biblically based that it is can help you as members of the church. Even if you're not a leader in a church. This is all this is deftly a subject in a movement that we should all be a part of are called to be a part of it.
So it's a part of our lives as Christians to be thinking about how do we spread the gospel how do we disciple more people. How do we reach the lost and church planning being something that the very reason you guys are Christians and me and Nate, as well as because other people planted churches over the last 2000 years, and it ended up over here on this side of the pond and lo and behold an hour walking with Christ, so actual strategy like where we go.
How do we go, what is it look like to start a church how we populate that that's talk about that. This can be as speaks and Nate not as the Bible said so. I think those are the most helpful and faithful planting would be two-pronged. One would be identifying places locally that need churches need healthy churches we might see there's mainline churches here. There is dying churches here, but there needs to be a faithful gospel witness. That's local and that's again I'm speaking a semi who lives in the southeast where there's a lot of churches to use a local same market yet any gaps in, and certainly sometimes. I mean your city or your kind of your multiple cities there just by yet I think already, you but then also I want churches here because they're healthy churches you're thinking okay let's think in the country. Where are the places that need churches in the future you think Northeast Northwest Midwest so I think it needs be two-pronged.
You think plaything locally is easier. You can sing a lot when Cheryl and then you need to think through okay we need to send people to Boston and New York City and Philadelphia.
Other places, and so kind of thinking through need that that would be the height for me of just we don't plan churches appoint a church we think need where some places locally, we can do church planting, local planting. My strategy is typically more of a kind of a siphoning off in a good way so I would think we identify should say were planning in Raleigh. Let's identify apex need to church. Let's start a small group in apex with some capable leaders. We think eventually really pastor or elder qualified people we've raised up send them out to start a small group see that small group multiply the two or three smokers and then again we can talk about energy on people that live down in apex of that particular area or whatever market your end absolutely in your reaching out to the people here in your area who in that area and then and then at that point, you need a church they need to start meeting on Sundays. Any to start doing with the church does need to be committed to one another, practicing the ordinances and and so on and so on.
I am a guy who is not, and I say this is somebody who loves the church are part of. I am not a big multisite guy.
I think I prefer when we say multisite for people's understanding multiple locations but everybody's watching the same preacher that is generally one main location and then everything is broadcast out from the right.
They have campuses in and there are some churches that with their campuses.
They have live preaching, but a lot of them have videos of the lead pastors be is videoed in. I'm not as big a fan of that on give some reasons why though I love again. The brothers like Judy ground love and he's much more than I can come in until you so I prefer making them autonomous churches, but having still really close relationship to that sending a church that mother church like I imagine those churches did with Antioch and other places. And so the reason I'm for that is because part of that is I think them the larger multisite campus where there's a video guardian can be very driven by the one guy. And so if that guy leave so he leaves the church or for whatever reason, maybe dies tragically or whatever that I think that you put you in a much bigger bottle absolutely and and and I think this is a way to empower other leaders took to do with the Lord calling them do. I do agree they're not to preach is good to rightly the people you sent and I can preach as good as the guy who can really preach and can preach to 10,000 people over time their preachings. If you share that matter also to be faithfully shepherding those people in their unit have a chance to have this impact in their lives and so I just would personally I would hold to autonomous church planting. I do see I do see the multisite campus model working to see disciples made and so I think I some definitive downsides to it.
And because of our flashing and God raises up people and their and their incredibly gifted, often asked the question if we had a chance to multisite Charles Spurgeon would we have now.
They will you put in a different context and also peeling and maybe build the bigotry. I don't know but the cult of personality thing is dangerous, and are you coming to this church because you like that particular pastor style are you coming here to get fed. The word of God because the word of God doesn't come back void its that's not dependent upon his present.
Let's be honest. That happens at mega churches that are not multisite looming. Absolutely. So is not.
That's not the inherent problem of that I would make an argument and again he would disagree. I don't see multisite model in the New Testament. I know I know they make an argument and must've been multisite in Jerusalem and other places. I find that an argument from silence, not an art from Jessica.
That's great point. So let's say you're going to say. Start a small there was the lessee going to another market to Boston.
We have to be centric plant a church in Boston. Do we have sent to be sensitive to where the other actual good gospel preaching churches are. I think abs and I think even locally we should do that we should plan on top of somebody that's a faithful church that we would agree our denomination are not emasculated in that we would agree with.
I think certain this is happened this been a problem which certain people go in and they are so gung ho we want to reach Boston was you Boston example we want to reach Boston. Boston has no no for five guys down the road like no work faithful yeah yeah you can get exactly and so I think you want to you want to work in such a way that you're not planning on top of them. Also would say if possible.
This is not always possible if possible. If there is a healthy church already established there.
I would say incubate there for a couple of months. Get to know their people get to know the city get to know the culture have a close friendly relationship is you're gonna need them.
It's so interesting again. Traveling overseas there's not as much bickering and division. Because of unchristian's are like we need one all man disagree on some things we need one another that are so high. I think that's the picture New Testament when churches cooperate, they were they were and they were independent but they were interdependent on one another and I wish we had a little bit better feel about that little bit better like were on the same team do we and charging and planting a church in Boston.
Do we go and and reach out and talk to the faithful preachers there and say hey were where pretty sure the Lord wants us to come here if I want a plane to Boston tomorrow. I would identify and try to find all the faithful pastors I could find an alternate with everything you say we and in and again you'll meet those guys in the state. We need you here crying complaint but don't plan on top of them and and really do the best you can.
Creators relationship now because you will have them help you when you plant a church leader and then do you kinda transfer the culture because I know that's the senator try go is really good when they plant in other cities. The cultures counted as they approached the ministry during the day is the same. The welcome tents that have this kind of familiar feel to it, but yet it's its own entity while I was standing some is really good at this. Even with their campuses. Each campus has a different feel. Based upon the neighborhood therein. I think you do. You go really hard at what is very clear in the Bible you do those things mean you're practicing the ordinances your preaching the gospel you're doing the things that are very clear, but the shape of what that looks like you try to make sure that it's culturally sensitive yeah innocent and will the way we say that is that is being a good host is not putting up some stuntman rock security in the way of hospitality a good be a good host at which being a good host of having good. A good reader system or having a parking system that's not being the subbing seeker sensitive that's being a good is writing a good I make sure you have somewhere to park in my driveway when you come over to dinner at my house is in my being seeker sensitive. No, I just think of being a loving exactly really good host so that is just ways to take barriers and don't need to be under it does take them out away exactly so, but for laypeople which is most of us should we be asking our church should we be asking our pastor about this and we we done anything with church planting, I think so and I think your pastor will be very thankful that you as a layperson would get involved.
I think sometimes there pastors who think if we do anything like this. If we send people out it's gonna look bad on me, lose members of Miller's good giving you and I think if the membership at the lady was, you know, we really will be a part of this, we want to be on mission even if that means were just to give financially to I'm not a second go. I think if you went to your pastor said hey are we about this. How can we be about this. I think they would love you for it and they probably use you to build momentum in the church to all, God will definitely bless that and I would put this in a parental context and say hey Alex. How exciting is it when you get married. Pretty darn exciting. How is it exciting is it. We have a kid that's a whole another level, that's a whole thing. Tell all Asiatic and have him ready news begotten gave everybody me got married and everybody settling in and knowing you have a child so we get excited when we have a child in terms that make and it was great conversation Baptist 21.com is the website needs involved with a great resource and what a great conversation and necessary topic. My friends will I will be back tomorrow. This is Steve note on the Steve Noble show, God willing.
I talked again real soon.
Like my dad always used to say never