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2000 Years of Church History

The Steve Noble Show / Steve Noble
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January 2, 2020 11:59 am

2000 Years of Church History

The Steve Noble Show / Steve Noble

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January 2, 2020 11:59 am

2000 Years of Church History

Today is the first Theology Thursday of 2020! Steve McKinion, professor of  Theology and Patristic Studies, joins to discuss 200 years of church history in 40 minutes. The four main eras are, the beginning, medieval, the reformation, and modern churches.


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Everyone is time for this noble show where Christianity meets the everyday issues of life in your home, at work, and even in politics. Steve is an ordinary man who believes in an extraordinary God is on a show, there's plenty of grace and lots of true sacred cow call Steve now 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH or check them out online, Steve Noble now here's your host Steve Noble myself, I'm not aiming to stay. There are very much because I don't want to take too much time on that but it is 2020. The first show of the year and a show I wanted to do for a few years.

I just didn't know who was the right person to do it and so I asked Danny Aiken and Danny Aiken through my friend Dr. Steven McKinnon on the bus so it's good to see you again buddy, how are you yacht you don't know if that's like an honor that he saw coming. Or please try to set me off. I think I think will know that soon enough.

So anyway, it's great to see you Merry Christmas, happy new year to be back would be great to see you and for those of you that were called to worship you will remember Steve McKinnon and his family who came in to share the story of Harrison and just all that God has done in their lives a lot of ups and downs.

There but for those that are aware of the journey that your families been on house he has. He don't, here's a great just finished about eight years of treatment wrapped up and had a checkup today. Everything went great. He's doing well senior in high school ready to graduate all this behind them. That's awesome so great to hear. Well, one of the things I wanted to do on theology Thursday for years is how to how the world do you cover 2000 years of church history and what essentially is 40 minutes now, about 36 minutes because it's it's something that we don't know much about. We kind of know our modern era sent everyone say about denominations we know about the Reformation whenever the Catholic Church we know about Protestantism, but people I think generally are unfamiliar with the scope and the ark of church history. Starting back, obviously. And what we have from the Bible and the book of acts in the very first motion of the church, but bring it all forward to the day. Is there any worse than this value is this just me kicking out know it is so valuable. Not just because you learn where you came from, but because Christians are always trying to live out the gospel and proclaim the gospel in their own context and when you when you listen to voices from the past that have tried to do that same thing.

You can avoid pitfalls you can learn lessons. You could be influenced by them.

If it's the same kind of dialogue that you have with brothers and sisters that are in church with you. These are just people that have been you know when the church 1500 years ago 2000 years ago. Yeah. And I think one of the things that similar to me with the Bible transmission and how to the Bible that we carry in our pockets.

The other Bible app that we all take for granted that it's not very heavy. We don't think about all that took place in order to bring that word all the way back for 5000 years ago for thousands of the Old Testament, but all the way through to today.

I think the same things with church history, we take it for granted.

We have all the advantages of all the blood that was built of the last 2000 years, and all the work that surround and so why is this such an important issue to teach at a seminary will be called shot when people training for ministry or going into a context where they have to retell the story.

The gospel and you know we do more than just say read your Bible and whatever you get out of it going do you know culturally the same Bible that that we do. They just misread. In short, church history does is it helps us to see where some of the misreadings that we may fall victim to prepare his people to to be missionaries to be it ministers and church ought to engage with culture where people do have misrepresentations even in the political environment wherein right now their presidential candidate you were talking about Jesus and talking about theology talk about Christianity and their portrayals of Christianity look a lot different than what we would have her we would hold to ensure we need to be prepared to operate ask questions within those contexts out today before we finished the shower to move through basically four major periods and I'm I'm using my teaching here because as Dr. McKinnon was kind enough to give this to me certain work work through four major periods are the ancient ancient one, which asked the question, who is Jesus Christ medieval which is all about. What is grace Reformation postarrest Reformation course which we talk about Martin Luther and the birth Protestantism. What is salvation and doesn't relate to the church and in the modern age, which is really unfortunately all around the central question of what is truth in general and specifically the man in the word but if we go back to the ancient one who is who is Jesus Christ. Why do we ask it in that way you don't win Jesus is teaching his disciples, he tells them what's the central question to Christianity and that is who is Jesus you who do people say that I am in and who do you say that I am. And when Peter confesses that Jesus is the Christ the son of the living God from the Old Testament.

Jesus says that's exactly right. What happens in early Christianity is people are keen to follow Jesus. They can have their own characters of Jesus their own interpretations of Jesus. It's like it's like with movies right so you have different interpretations of Batman right like so I euros it is at the the Batman of Nolan is that you are the older Batman is that Sandy's back here at our last try exactly right. And so eat each one has Laura sitting on an athletic who shall not be named Gail it's not.

I did so I need to repent. That's right.

Let's not say that your work or Spider-Man or whomever or or Abraham Lincoln and Abraham Lincoln vampire slayer right that you have the same name. Once the real God and one is is a misrepresentation, fictional character, what happens in early Christianity is as Christianity spreads and people become identified with Jesus all these misinterpretations of who Jesus is. You get these Gnostic Gospels that talk about this guy named Jesus, but is not the same the same one that we believe in. He's not the son of God is not the Christ of the Old Testament is not God incarnate, and Christians are having to hammer those things out to ensure that the boundaries between the the Jesus who was real.

The biblical Jesus and then a taken a false Jesus that those boundaries are clear and that you have language that can help you to identify how one know when I got out of the out of the river and on the bank of the river as opposed in the river and that's what's happening in in the ancient church and then the financing church. I would imagine it got quite dicey once all the apostles died off. No doubt that's exactly right. Once they're gone, people start to appeal to their own teaching.

The claim that God has given them new revelations. You have some groups that are willing to believe that Jesus is a human being, but not that Jesus is God. Others who are willing to lead Jesus is God, but that is not a human being and so Christians have to find what's the language that accomplishes the task of confessing that Jesus is both fully God and fully man.

God incarnate for us and our salvation to pick it up there talking to Dr. Stephen McKinnon today from Southeastern Baptist theological seminary. This theology Thursday. Going through 2000 years of church history and one shell about 40 minutes to pick it up there in the ancient church will make our way towards the medieval church. The Reformation certain than the hundreds of Steve Noble 20 where it gets likely the jet because I was convinced back in the early 19 when I was a kid and you are in your 20s that we would find guards by now. But alas, we don't not try to get my car to fly any of the still driving cars in the killing people just along for the Jetsons are pretty far away from that and anyways I would say praise the Lord talking to Dr. Stephen McKinnon today on theology Thursday to come look at 2000 years of church history in 40 minutes. In the confines of the show today. Fascinating subject, one that most of us don't know much about and we started with. Obviously the apostles once the apostles die off and have some battles over who is Jesus anyway and then you can have that. You gotta throw in here because this is a major part of church history is the cortical Roman Catholic Church. What is that kind of organized hierarchy. We have a headquarters you have uniforms.

We have hats we can make that move happen because of the first few hundred years. It was very much house church city church or or organic.

So then all Seneca goes better in the real reasons for the for the change. It comes down to in the fourth century, when persecution in what happens is gone and Constantine is the Emperor Constantine oversees civil religion which is paganism.

What we think of lichen in Greek and Roman mythology really worship these gods. Jupiter and Zeus and Mercury in these guys but when Constantine has this vision, where he each sees essentially that he needs the end the persecution against Christians on the second and third centuries, persecution grows. At first it just local laws are just a few places were persecutions going on eventually becomes more empire wide what Constantine does is he makes Christianity another civil religion so to legalize now everybody in the Empire ends up having to be one thing or the other.

You have to be Christian or you have to be pagan or when that happens, then some of the practices and the traditions as well as the need to have a hierarchy and authority who oversees it comes with Constantine, and so some of the practices that you might would think of with regard to burning incense and worship in a temple type format as opposed to little more relaxed and organic type of format. All that comes to to bear. At this point and the authority it question so you have hierarchy, you have ahead of the church kind of the bridge builder the pontiff or the vicar, not so much because of theological reasons but because you have to keep this whole organization yelling in the same direction and that's what ends up being that the starting place were now Christianity has an opportunity to move in that direction within 100 years, you have Leo the great come on the on the scene is the Bishop of Rome at the root.

The Roman Empire has already moved to Constantinople. What had been presented in a semicircle you want to go church leaders where they just I Constantine these just savvy politicians. You think they actually were converts well. So Constantine is just a savvy politician. I mean every every Emperor wants peace within their empire right they don't think they want everybody to same page and be on the same and you will have a growing economy and people to be safe and because when when the trains were run on time. If you will. Politicians are the ones who flourish and that's what happens with Constantine is not so much concerned with what is the true gospel. What is it really mean to worship God. How can you be a true follower of Jesus. He's more concerned with what what hold my empire together and Christianity is just exploded and Rodney Stark is shown that the rate increase in Christianity from the second century to the to the fourth just mind-boggling. And so when you happen you go from just 100,000 Christians to millions of Christians in the Empire in a couple of hundred years. There are different and influential forces you're trying to persecute them. It makes much more sense to stop that persecution get them on your team and that's what that's what Constantine does when it creates this environment were now you have a single head of the church in the same way that he was the head of the pagan religion he now purported to be the head of the Christian religion as well, which meant he wanted everybody to fall under him. It's one of the reasons why we as Baptist and and other groups as well, but have in America at least, we really believe in and pushed this freedom of religion. Yeah what you know we don't want even if the even if the government is on our team for little while. We really don't want them telling her he wanted to see what happened as a different team yeah exactly. This changes everything. 70 guys and something else right so it it really comes just as there is political change.

The end of persecution and then the need to create this environment where there's there's a single authority figure and it's got to come to its head and in about 880 yet. So what so any of the big players back then because did we start to see some divides on big theological issues and moving towards eventually denominationalism. That's right you have in the in the second the third centuries the big questions are how do Christians differentiate themselves from pagans and from Judaism when you get to the fourth century and the Council of Nicaea which is this first ecumenical Council were all the theologians and pastors in the Empire, the major Empire pastors that come together and they answer the question of the Trinity. So what's the language that will give you the Nicene Creed from when you get to that point. Now it's it's two people who were claiming to be Christian.

One of them.

Speaking of the gospel in in in a biblical apostolic way, another one speaking of the gospel in a different way. Now you have that distinguishing that needs to take place at theologically practically what are things we need to do and not do you get questions like where we can celebrate Easter. Do you celebrate it with the witness on which is the Jewish Passover and or do you celebrate it like we do in a in relation to when the equinoxes answer. Christians have to decide these things as they work out together. She had big theological debates.

Your practical debates. Sometimes you have two ways of saying the same thing which are acceptable, but Christian theologians have to figure out is it okay for you to speak the way that you're speaking to me to speak the way that I'm speaking were still on the same team were saying the same thing just using different language or is what you're saying.

A different gospel and so was it was it kind of majoring in the minors or are there some really major theological questions very important theological issues how to status Jesus relate to the father.

How does Jesus relate to the spirit. How was Jesus fully God and fully man. How was the Holy Spirit, God and what is it mean that he comes to dwell within us. These are major issues that Christians dealt with in this time because you don't the Bible as a narrative tells the story of the father and the son and the Spirit, and the work that that the that God as father and son and Spirit dollars, but doesn't do it.

Note it in a way that lays out current propositions and children retell that story. It's easy to accidentally tell a different story and change the story of the Bible and something that's what Christians were doing.

They were saying if you tell the story that way. It's a different story. And so we don't want to get on that path we wanted to make sure that we stick with retelling the story of Scripture and any mention 800-8800 A.D. is Charlemagne Charles the great the Western Roman Empire had fallen. It had been overrun by people like the Visigoths in the Ostrogoths of the Germanic tribes and as a way to resurrect the Western Roman Empire. The Pope and the and and Charles the great who was the king of the Franks appliance if you will.

They got together and said how about we create a Holy Roman Empire, not just Roman Empire but now Holy Roman Empire were church and state are added together. Yet, the political head. Charlemagne have religious head in the hotel van and that's where it comes from inside. I can hear Martin Luther out there somewhere. Galileo was to work our way through medieval get to Martin Luther and the will start talking about post-Reformation and eventually get the modern church talk about church history 2000 years. Dr. McKinnon will be right back sociology Thursday with her friends at Southeastern Baptist theological seminary here today with Dr. Stephen the Kenyon working our way through church history 2000 years of church history in about 40 minutes now are down to about 20 minutes to feel the heat. Steve, you no doubt generate measures their creditors there. :-) Evan make a note I want to change all the above music by the end of January okay, I'm really tired good music and there but I'm sick so I need to be more like a teenage girl. I need to flip all my music out all the time. You can never go wrong with Toto know that we have a photo on it with your bumper. I don't how often you actually here and I hear a lot so probably a problem right so where in 800 A.D. you said that in the pre-previous segment that the skin of a big turning point. So let's start there again. 800 A.D. and then will move into the medieval period in and talk about that the kid will get in the Reformation before he finished his yeah so what what this is where political and cultural issues relate to church history and what Christians are doing and so with the with the rise of the Holy Roman Empire and Charlemagne, the Pope you have this separation divide that takes place between East and West, and so Eastern Christianity ends up having its own issues dealing primarily with Islam and having to live for most of its history, Islam starts in the 600 that's exactly right. And so that becomes out there becomes a major turning point in the east Western Christians for a while. Islam is not the major problem you get some Islam in North Africa and so the Western Roman Empire really is Europe as we think of it today. Where is that they don't Roman Empire before was the Mediterranean and all these other European places were these barbarian regions are outside of the Empire now with a Holy Roman Empire Europe as we think of it today hits its influence on us because you know America comes out the European expansion, etc. so what happens with Christianity in Europe with the rise of the Holy Roman Empire is that now the question becomes how we can ensure that every body within this one single church is going to submit to the same authority practice the same faith.

How can we have the same liturgy. How can we say the same things in the hierarchy in what we think of is Europe and Holy Roman Empire becomes a very dominant force, and as the Middle Ages go on, you still have diversity. It's not a monolithic Christianity. You have a hierarchy that is monolithic now could because none of us remember our history and in terms of the periods of what what timeframe we talk about when we say the Middle Ages so were talking from about that 800 until 1517 got with the rise of Martin Luther so that we divide that timeout were really talking about somewhere close to 800 until 1570 and so Christians are wrestling with all sorts of questions.

The main theological issues are dealing with is what is grace and and when they are asking the question, what is that they're also asking then how do you get so if grace is something that God gives out like it's it's something that he has that he's going to give to someone else at a think, then you have to say will what's the means by which I get it. So you have the rise of sacramental is on the rise of the church being a place that is the holding place for grace so the church receives grace from God and and by church I mean the institution. The hierarchy receives the grace from God.

In the gives it to people who are faithful to it so you can imagine people going to church and essentially receiving the message that says if I want the grace of God I have to do the yes religious act, the sacraments and the lack of because that's the way that it was understood God had ordained that his grace would be given to people you do this as a way to receive his grace, something that he had.

So what where you where we lay the money is a strong word where we lay the blame that we essentially reconstructed the veil between the holy of holies in the in the outer space we did. Yet others have access to all as I know you need to come to church to get access and I think it's with this question. What is grace, and so you get grace being something will now you need a reliable group of priesthood to hold this grace and so you reconstruct the priesthood instead of where all priest who go before God in the Middle Ages it becomes work and have a priesthood. They go to God they get grace and then they bring it to us and I don't know that there was any malicious intent with that right. It really was a desire to see people receive God's grace be right with God become Christians that the picture that you know sometimes is presented of these medieval bishops and medieval popes who are out to harm people sure is not true. May we go to the Inquisition and we go to the Crusades and we got all that I and all that happens in their issues.

With all that are, but you have these these leaders there doing what they really think is going to help people to be right with God. Your you're dealing with very little education in the Holy Roman Empire.

People are or have their daily quiet time given a copy of the Bible and have the Gutenberg press yet another have their own caught other wireless but all that's good change at the end of Middle Ages in give way to an and allow for the changes are to come of the Reformation. Later the Middle Ages sometimes called the dark ages, but that the Middle Ages is this time when you rely on the church to do the Christian things and they just give me the benefit of that now as it was there whether some players prior to Luther some pre-Reformation players. There were again Christianity Middle Ages wasn't monolithic.

You had people like John Hawes, like Wycliffe, who Bible translator fame and we don't even have Bible translators today that are the Wycliffe Bible Bible Society, so these leaders were pushing back against this idea of what Christianity was long before the Reformation came to be you have Bernard of Clairvaux who was a very important monastic leader who can't created a whole monastic movement as the church within the church. If you will like shadow church and it practiced a Christianity which would would look exactly like what we do because it's a different culture, but would be very similar in terms of the sentiment of what was going on at would be familiar to us and if we met one another and were talking about Christianity together gently and we act like humanism is a modern issue.

Humanism in the Renaissance, was happening at the end of the dark. It's no doubt that's exactly right. And you have come to issues with regard to humanism. You have a humanism that says we now want to begin to study things related to human beings, which is unrelated to Christianity and religion and isn't like the secular humanism that's on the other side of that work the same time you have people saying all we want to see human beings as the end of all things, and so their worldview that kind of worldview that says that humanity's flourishing is its end is very similar to the type of secular humanism. That's going to come later and so you have that debate going on, but humanism and in terms of Christian humanism says we need to be concerned with art and music and reading tax and education. Once people start to become educated and begin to read these ancient Christian tax. There they look at him. They say this is a lot different that I said I go to church on Sunday. All of a sudden you have the notes that that's exactly right and and once you open people's awes to receiving Christian the Christian tradition, especially from the ancient church you see a Christianity which is vibrant and which is real which which honors God and which sees the means by which we receive salvation. Being faith in Jesus Christ.

And that's where Luther's can get it from you, so would you say that next. 800 A.D., the rise of the of the church polity and church state and all the issues that came out of that with the Catholic Church is the Reformation is that earthquake number two is that earthquake number one. Yeah, in some ways it is earthquake number one because it it revolutionizes the way the that people are going to talk about Christianity going forward and is going to create a rift that builds a wall that's impenetrable.

It was it one accidental.

So what happens I think with the rise of of the medieval church is people are just there there pursuing Christianity and they're going down different paths, and sometimes you walk down the path and not really paying attention where your head and you get there and you stop and you think, where are we do this on purpose happens with reformations is that weathers the German Reformation of the Swiss Reformation of the English Reformation there intentional about saying we're going to not do what we see going on in the Roman church and were instead going to return to the ancient faith faith once for all delivered the saints.

This is biblical Christianity. Where the Bible is the source of truth in the suit source of revelation and our Christianity is going to be derived from that so because it's a it's an intentional nailing a stake in the ground. That's where I think it's it's more significant gap in the what happened previously yeah because I want to come back in the four segment government were basically handling 1500 years in three segments royalty 500 years in the foreign silent and and talk about it. I want to make sure we get the Reformation it's due, what drove Martin Luther. What was the reaction right out of that and then how to the Protestant faith moved from there out of the Catholic faith respond and then will run into modernism with most decisions to talk about talking to Dr. Steven McKinney and tear on theology Thursday at Southeastern Baptist theological seminary 2000 years of church history and 40 minutes.

I think we can actually feel the land claim be that's opposite because Dr. McKinney and this is the Milton Nobles show. Looking through the W-2s of 50, the highest-paid Christian leaders that America is a pretty big numbers in here and I haven't gotten him in looking at the laws on Manama number 40/50 and he's slugging it out with about $293,000 a year so I mean I don't know how they survive, trying to stay afloat really just I'm sorry for how Tucker's Christmas must've been, but if you if you're a professor at Southeastern Baptist theological seminary not on that list or not, you're not fly in private, here, here, fly and propping uppers glad you're in the last row you your message to see the don't go back.

I lowered talking to Dr. Steven McKinney today on theology Thursday and Steve nobles are talking about church history.

What just ran through 1500 years and were what the Reformation which is major, major, major, major, not in a it's a major from qualitative sampling is major from a quantitative sampling is just major, what, what's the met where the main things that drove Martin Luther to nail his 95 theses to the wall yes or Martin Luther struggled in his own life with being good enough for God and he wrestled with that he began to prepare to teach through the book of Romans and not only is he was reading Romans. But then, as he was reading some ancient Christian writers from the early church, Augustine of hippo being one of them, he discovered that what they taught about grace and salvation in being right with God. What justification or salvation really means was more in line with what he was finding in Rome and in the book of Romans and what he was finding in church or in his in his monastery and so he observed that the Pope was selling indulgences to raise money to build a building and he had had enough was done with it and so he began to call out these what he sought to be hypocrisy, misunderstanding of grace and of salvation and the good news was that hundred and 50 years before when the Gutenberg press was invented. Now he had a way yeah to get his word out to other people, social media, the day he was able to to post, not just his 95 theses on the door at the castle church there Gutenberg but then copies of his 95 theses could be made quickly and other pamphlets that he had written could be passed along very quickly purchase that the people perish for lack of knowledge that's right. And people didn't have.

Now they're able to have access to knowledge, it was revolutionary and once people discovered the differences between what they had received what they were being taught versus what Luther was teaching what Scripture taught now. Now they wanted. They wanted to go a different way and they they wanted to be genuinely Christian. And so they began to follow Luther and Germany. The German states went through a pretty radical Reformation which even led to war or armed conflict where Germans had to defend themselves from the armies of the Holy Roman Empire in order to be able to remain Protestant because church and state combine app so that in the days of it is a really adversary Janelle was the official Church of England and a better switch back and forth but it's exact minute, weapon eyes is everything it does, and it becomes an armed conflict better and it was true even and even following the reformations. Luther was what we call a magisterial reformer, that is, he wanted to use the power of the government to enforce this reform. Yeah.

And wrong. Even that's right. And that can even go off the rails and you don't what you want is you want religious freedom and that's the. The end result of the reformations in Europe is that you get to this place where you won't have religious freedom where that the government is a neutral player when it come just to what people gonna believe, which is what drove the three ships across the Atlantic Ocean without a doubt like to start persecution and religious freedom. I start my constitution civics class every year in the Reformation you want to know the story of America doesn't start on the shores of Rocky 20 no starts with the Reformation and then bringing all that Ford which is what they came over here for in the first place of the Reformation starting to spread. Europe is changing rapidly and then lots, the next major think of them will and then where would we say modernism comes in yet so it typically modernism structure in 1750 and that's with Immanuel Kant with the rise of what we call the Enlightenment and that is where truth, it is deemed to be discovered as opposed to received and so you pit. You begin to pit against one another. The ideas of revelation and reason Christians to this point had been very reasonable people date they didn't see that there was a con flicked between science and faith. This is a world that God had made. Why would why would we would studying science. Lead us away from God and so the Christians that held these together very well know, there had been issues we have the famous one being Bella Leo Copernicus, but those things get overblown primarily in and secular media reinterpretations of those history there were plenty of church leaders that they worn out to burn these guys at the stake and didn't see it as heresy, soap, faith in and religion had faith and science had been held together for by Christians from the very beginning they were opposed to one another when you get to 1750.

Now you set them in opposition to each other and now what happens is the question of where we can get truth is it going to be human reason. Our experience is the phenomenon that we see the scientific method is that going to be our way to discover truth. Or we can receive truth and so even when it comes to science Christians had said when we do science and some the best scientists in in history been Christians are absolute and when you do science or exploring the world that God is major learning things about it, you're discovering things about it, but now it becomes this question of the.

The only way to do science is in this naturalist fashion, meaning that you you can't associated with God. Because of this question of epistemology.

Where does knowledge come from. Does it come from God and is that the fear of the Lord the beginning of wisdom or is it is instead knowledge comes from ourselves and from our experiences and that's what the what happens with the rise of of modernism & you have to deal with that scientific world always and the divide. There is reminiscent of the divide we see in this country politically right now.

No doubt about. It's almost like nobody crosses that divide.

That's right, no doubt about it. So you get you get people like and end the main figure in this this move, talk about now is Friedrich Schleiermacher's or Schleiermacher's a German pastor who says we need a new kind of Christianity we don't want to abandon Christianity. We want to keep the same language will keep the same faith we want to keep the same in terms of our practices. We want to keep the good things that come from Christianity, but we really want to subject it to science and this new scientific world and essentially what happens was Schleiermacher Mrs. Protestant liberalism is we want to have a a accommodation of enlightenment thinking to say we still want to claim to be Christian, but we just don't want to be gospel Christians will be Bible questions and I think this is the same thing that you hear it's the roots of what you hear in the in the political realm where people bring up Christianity when it suits them and they say here's a political end that I have in mind, but it's not follow Jesus as the Christ, the son of the living God is just follow Jesus as this good person yeah urinary right to backup your notions that you hold already exactly digit MEP footage of the time I he's a perfect example of this, and he doesn't know what kind of a meek fashion which is affected no doubt know what, but it's a dry erase Bible approach pulls.

This ignores that are rooted in Protestant liberalism that I saw that run of that happened is that liberals versus conservatives little in that same thing happened in this country of the Constitution. The strict constructionist in this broad construction same exact thing happened with the Bible. What about a couple minutes of evangelicalism like where we say that so evangelicalism grows out of the debate over modernism and so when with the rise of Darwinism Christianity was now faced with okay are we going to have God active in the world.

Or is God not going to be active in the world and that since in many ways the root of the fundamentals modernist controversy because you had people who set a still gonna believe in God but he's just not active in the world, the deism, so evangelicalism grows out of what was the. The early adherents of a collection of writings known as the fundamentals and you have two groups that that held to those fundamental ship fundamentalism, which is Separatism and what you think of is this independent fundamentalism and then you have evangelicalism in the evangelical said we will hold to the fundamentals of the faith but we want to do it in a way which doesn't separate ourselves from society still engage with people we want to have debates and conversations and so there they focused on education and they focused on teaching and then engaging in so this is where you get Christianity today magazine. Billy Graham Carl FH Henry, these are all the origins of American evangelical non-terms of near future history not eschatological history with the Bible says, but what you see.

It's kind of the next thing happening in church history should the Lord Terry. Yeah, I think.

The questions can come down to water, Christians gonna do with regard to the public square, so your garage rear and the Benedict option as kind of a an offer to Christians to say if were going to survive is Christians, then we have to survive the way that Russian Christian did Christians different sample after the Bolshevik revolution and it is we gotta create our own and suggestions and were not to be welcome the public square.

And so we simply gotta build ourselves on the other side the other side's engagement and I hope that's the side that wins out.

Continue to remain faithful, as Christians, we can't sell our soldiers have to be engaged in the mail on any of this without you better not want to feel that they are not is not the point in the world but not of the trade in the world but not of the world. Whether you go 2000 years.

Well thanks and have them feel welcome. Probably should do that in class probably think Steve and I okay friends. That's what a great wrap there in theology Thursday. This is God willing will talk to you always, never for

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