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White Pastor's Foray with MLK

The Steve Noble Show / Steve Noble
The Truth Network Radio
February 25, 2020 2:49 pm

White Pastor's Foray with MLK

The Steve Noble Show / Steve Noble

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February 25, 2020 2:49 pm

White Pastor's Foray with MLK

Today, hear the incredible story of Rev. Ken Steigler, with his foray into the civil rights movement alongside Martin Luther King Jr. and other incredible people!


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Everyone is time for this noble show where biblical history entity meets the everyday issues of life in your home more and even in politics. Steve is an ordinary man who believes in an extraordinary God it on a show, there's plenty of grace and lots of true but no sacred 634 through 866-34-TRUTH or checking out Now here's your host is doing well. How many weeks ago. Not too long ago, the Friday morning Bible study to men's Bible study that you guys hear me mention this occasionally is been going for about 40 years.

Dr. Danny Lott started that you like is Danny lots. Why does that matter doctored. It's it's not so much. Danny lots.

Although he was a phenomenal man of God. A dear friend of mine, a great mentor and a huge blessing.

You probably know his wife is his wife is n-gram lots. Her dad is a son on some guy named Billy Graham or something that is it. But anyway, so that Friday morning Bible study is a unique experience that is probably from a Fellowship perspective one of the closest things that have and I think I've experienced here on earth because it's such a diverse group in many different ways denominationally ethnically in terms of social economic status, education, we got ex-cons and got all kinds of people in there and one of my good friends there and Russ was talking up to us about his been bugging me for a while I got to meet Rev. can get any reverend can and I never hear that people never want me to meet anybody so strange and he said it, but got to meet you in any reverend can okay wipe why Russ why do I need to be reverent can because the Rev. was in marched in Selma with Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. he was going to training in Atlanta.

He was there in the 20th row. Mind you, in Washington DC the March for Washington. When Dr. King gave the speech which we played coincidently can play the entire speech on the show on MLK day. I do that every year and so white pastors 484 a and the civil rights movement back. I was in the 1960s and so can came and I was late to class that day.

I miss pretty much everything you had to say. But then we had a chance to go to breakfast afterwards which I was grateful for it was just been wonderful to get to know you and thank you for being in her today.

Reverent Ken, how are you doing good.

It's an honor to be with you. Great to have you here. This is quite a story and and is especially not allow white people that that share this type of story with you but is something that I think we should all clean from because of what the Lord allowed you to experience only touch control of it, but let let's go all the way back because you were raised in a Milford, Connecticut, and enduring not really some of the worst days in the civil rights atrocity here in America. What was that like for you as a child because was that real up there was a kind off the radar Sonny Bono. It was very, very real, but my dad taught me very early on when he came in to the used car lot and worked in the used car lot dusting cars cleaning out trunks lining up batteries that putting tires in order to like kind of stuff he made it very clear when they came on the lot that everybody that came to the lot.

Everybody was to be respected equally and everybody was important and everybody was to be treated as special guest and that's what John was no problem for me.

Find that's what we did we just do that and so winded when did you come to become aware of just how bad things were not significant portion of the country back. Well you started working on the used car lot. When people came in and cars that we have sold have been shot up. We had to go. We reclaim the cars and that kind of thing in Canada gang war stuff and so it very early on, 16, 17 and 18. It was really clear that we are that we are really really at war with one another in a nation and it was award racially divided very racially divided and very every isolating very isolating people what year were you born 1941, of okay. It was a good year to you born an elevator almost named Otis elevator so funny and so chilled by the time you are in the late 1950s, in your 18 years of age and going off to college and had a unique experience in college because unlike going to college in the South when you went to college at Ohio Wesleyan. It was would you say was desegregated or what was that like there no, it was not desegregated at all it was. I wish I was a legacy to a large fraternity and walked into the fraternity. There was nothing but nude ladies pictures and beer and was all over the place. It is the fraternity for me.

I walked across the street and across town, across of real tracks and join fraternity called Beta Sigma Tau which was open internationally in racially into religiously and that was a place for me. That was a place where Israel people with you, so that that's where I went as as a freshman and loved working there and loved becoming president there and working in that that whole community. There was it like for African-American students at that school at the school.

If you were freshman black, freshman, male or female. You were in the furnished rooms down in the woman's norms or the men's dorm. That's where the black students had to go in the basement early in the bed in the basement in the furnace room and so are fraternity was only fraternity at that time that had any Afro-American had any Spanish in the anybody around from around the world. We are the only ones that were internationally recognized, the highest four-point accused of any fraternity in the hippocampus because they all were very serious together serious students. There is no have you ever experienced that kind of segregation prior to getting there. That was at Ohio Wesleyan where where okay if you're black you're sleeping in the basement by the furnace room. No, although I recognize at the church where I grew up and became a United Methodist local preacher. All I can stuff a very white very very white and nobody nobody of any color they had the color church. They were that they were over across the track so they were down another place in town. They were not in the main main stream of Milford, Connecticut.

So that was it was very white that was very disturbing and yelling, but for you personally. You were raised that would you say that you were raised to kind of, we acknowledge that people are different that's it's beautiful that type of diversity. But did you struggle at all and in that environment back then that, like a lot of people did that literally looked at after Americans as a subservient less than than white Americans was that on your radar screen. It all was that totally foreign to you has to settle before because on the used car lot. We had people Spanish BUF American people. We had all kinds of people from around the nation that with air coming through Bridgeport Milford and at Stratford in a kind area, so it was just it was normal just to sit down and talk with somebody in and have a conversation and learn learn who they were and what they were striving to do and how difficult it was for them to get loans how difficult it was for them to get out of the trap that they were in so that that I heard a lot of that pain. A lot of that timesharing on campus. Besides the fact that African Americans this freshman are forced to sleep literally the basement of these buildings. What was it like just in classrooms in the atmosphere on campus back very segregated, very segregated. There they were just really really just tokens. They were just tokens on the campus. Some made it very well and did very well, but it was a lot of it was very token it was very very token and are fraternity biking of which was the only one they could go. They could join so that was an oasis there at Ohio Wesleyan and then where when a comeback going to talk about an interesting up.

They loaded with the FBI as the FBI got involved. Interestingly enough, and then a an experience that Remington had gone down to Atlanta which really is where God began to take him into the civil rights movement were here about all of that in Selma is amazing stories in Oconee, where we'll be right back to Steve Noble to Steve Noble showing it when we come back and from a commercial break. If you ever wonder why McKenna chuckling and laughing and sound like we've been having a little party while you been listening to commercial. That's because while we have been so you can experience that you have to go to Facebook lives of your Facebook person and hey listen, the odds are that you're scrolling through your Facebook feed right now.

Somewhat listening to us and then somewhat paying attention to what's going on in your Facebook feed. Just go over the Steve Noble show on Facebook you'll see little Facebook live icon in the little play button and just click it and you'll be right here in the studio with us a while we while you on the radio, or listening to a commercial break which is super important. That's the way we find a lot of these things on radio in the studio we have, sidebar conversation, I don't I don't rob from you. Listening on radio.

I don't rob from you what's happening during the breaks. We just have kind of a separate conversation.

Maybe we take a little bit of a of of a of a of a with a digression we pick up on a difference. Looks like different subject. We tell some stories but that's another 13 or 14 minutes of what's going on between 4 and 5 PM Easter Monday through Friday, so the only lawyer to get that is either you watch the Facebook live feed later or you just jump on it and join us here in the studio right now so that's a 40 5 PM Eastern time or doing Facebook live right now. Right now in the studio here in Wake Forest on the campus of Southeastern Baptist Rev. Ken Stiegler is with me today right so that's German Stiegler how to SDE.

I how many people spell it ST i.e. Elliott really sprinklers think leader that have done all those that know this.

And so the but that Rev. can is got involved a pretty young age. When he was in college and had a chance to go down to Alanna R talk about next and ended up going to Selma was there in Washington DC and wrote like row 21 Dr. King gave his I have a dream speech. So this is a story about of a young follower of Christ who happens to be white that had an experience that many of us never had a chance to have all of us should have and so were just going to kind of vicariously learn through what the Lord did with you but you were there in school you're in Ohio Wesleyan had some token African-Americans on campus. On most of the fraternities and places freshman year there sleeping in the basement.


Which sounds horrible and I'm sure once, but at one point the FBI come check you guys. I was up at that unfortunately the seniors at the time I was a sophomore in the fraternity and the seniors decide they want to have a party there or every all the campus only had parties. They had all kinds of drinking parties over we don't do that so they want to have what they called a communist party all well and I would be more popular today. Unfortunately, perhaps it was right will to John Birch society's in where we were in Delaware, Ohio. They didn't take kindly to the fact that we were advertising. Apparently the community to come to this commuter Communist Party it with this supposed to be a party commuting together. That's what you will, so the FBI had to come in groups and they investigated the officers why did you such a thing. Why would you support such a thing. And don't you know is cruising this dissension in the account community as early as yet. So with that chaplain, who is our chaplain. He was the leader of our fraternity to the campus.

He came in and stood in for us in and indicated that this was just a simple little fun thing that this fraternity and he would assure the FBI that we were like what interesting foreshadow them in and humor in that one, but interesting foreshadow of dealing with law enforcement later because the whole invitation to come down to Alanna on the training and everything there while you're in school in Ohio was that came because Ms. Willie, who was the head of the social but the committee on a pastoral counseling and she was the path professor for that and Dr. Butler Jones with the professor for sociology happened to be my double major and they decided they want to have two cigar kind of cars down and do a tour to see what was going on in 1962. So we went to Atlanta with and we went to Albany and we went to the speaker we went to a number different places, but Atlantis where we met Dr. King Boyer year grub in Connecticut going to school in Ohio and I are going down to Atlanta on its 1962. So what was that like and what did you learn down there will with Dr. King.

We we had it there was a social gathering for about seven or 8 o'clock at night started a social gathering of the house and we just waited for Dr. King of the group to come.

They came at 10 o'clock at night and had a complete because of concern for their safety and all those kinds of things which we understood we knew was going to be off awkward for him to come in in the daytime right to this house so anyway it was a good time and we sat down and we listen to him and talk with him question answer for a good hour and after we did that José Williams was there and train just as we asked if we could do something.

Can we do something act act out in the community.

Just a little bit to get a feel for what was dislike and so a group of us got trained to go when to rinse it do is sit in the local restaurant that was known for what you have to be trained to do what we have trained trained to be protecting one another better trained to keep our focus on Jesus Christ. That was a focus you keep your focus on Jesus Christ you love everybody that's around you no matter what you hear what they do, you're going to love them, and yet that's a strong discipline. You have to develop and we were trying to if somebody got attacked.

We were we were trying to kinda slide up with them to two or three people would take a beating order takers. The ammonia rack that was in the waitresses built in a like kind of stuff so we did. The next day we went group of small group of us when in black-and-white. We all went into front door that cause a little bit of ruckus to say the least.

We all sat down at the very front of the counter and what kind of stuff.

We just asked for a glass of water. Each of us just how can we have a glass of water well that route up to the crowd that was there round of the owner that riled up with the waitress with her swinging a ammonia rag and we could see was this not going well because it was just rounding up and we didn't want it created an incident for Ohio Wesleyan University.

We were only there to check to see what it was like we got a good taste of what it was loaded that, do you well. I would assume you'd never experienced anything like that up to that point in your life know not anything like that but we were were we were told by José, this is what's going to happen. Then he was very right. That's what that's what happened and he said that if you don't want to cause a scene sit. As for glass of water and if it's refuted use since the atmosphere is turning angry, then you have to go and they were angry yelling and swearing itself, and that wasn't pleasant and then we all walked out the front door again, which caused a little bit more anger and lots of words and stuff we share that we want back was the to where we were being trained to that house and that was it. We had a debrief with them because we never experience anything like that. What what what kind of impact that have been here since one of the worst sides of humanity mistrusting the American context minutes not terribly abnormal and other places around the world.

But in America, coming down from North to what of that duty you and and it's one thing to yelling hours was to love our neighbor. Wewas to pray for those who persecute us.

The that they asked you to go a mile you go to they asked for your sure you give your tunic.

Also, we know all that stuff but it's one thing to study it. Read about it so I think actually have to do that impact you will. I can remember I can go back just close my eyes and the picture the hole seemed easily and we go back and the thing that that happened to me very much was I was even more determined to be part of this movement that was a movement to's to save that racial inequality and and segregation and racism and hatred was not the way for the nation to go that which is not the way that was Dr. King was very very clear. If we don't change the nation who's going to change ingestion and we do it with nonviolence and so that was a very important lesson to learn to be an unpleasant discipline that discipline yeah then I want only come back to talk about it. You went off the Boston University school of theology and then Dr. King actually called there in preparation for the March of Selma and I talked about prayer because I know that I had a pretty radical revolutionize your understanding of prayer and how that was such a huge part of what was going on with the movement back then.

This is Steve Noble Dr. Rev. Ken Stiegler back. It's even over the Steve Noble show talking today to a new friend and eternal friend, you're stuck with Ken sorry Rev. Ken Stiegler, who is out has a just an amazing story, God's grace and allowing him to be a part of the civil rights movement back in the 60s and to march on Selma.

He was in the 20th row in Washington DC. When Dr. King gave his. Now a famous speech that that is just one of the most amazing speeches uttered by any human being ever in Washington DC so he was there for that and this is had a profound impact on him, and he's been teaching and sharing in talking about it ever sense. And so I had a chance to get to know him recently in the BC bringing on the air was a no-brainer. Also, there's something coming up actually next week. You guys are leaving on Monday six seats left. This is in conjunction with friendship Chapel Baptist Church of Wake Forest and and one of the United Methodist Church is here in Wake Forest tells about that real quick. In order to get some details later, but this is pretty incredible opportunity. Well, it's an opportunity because the MLK committee, which is was charted and commissioned by the HR committee and the human relations committee after 25 years of being in existence to do something more spectacular this year than just recognition of Dr. King and having a service at the church and the committee asked him to. If you have a trip to the freedom Trail and so that's what they when I came back in October I chaplain in the place that we can back in October that we need you to come and help us because you have a lot of background knowledge is also my privileges been to work with the MLK committee will work with Jim Grant and his wife Margo Lori Lori Moss and Peggy Blake is a committee and there should have been doing great things are putting together wonderful to work and there are yet. Right now there just succeeds six seats left out of 50, and the rooms early pay for so there six seats left. And anybody wants to know about it and come tonight at Wake Forest with the in Wake Forest at the friendship Chapel Baptist Church of yet. So this is basically leaving Monday morning very early return Thursday. This is all next week wanted to fret, and if you Thursday when when you get to see some one of the stops while well will were going to go to Atlanta and see the wall mural of the civil rights movement that will go to go to the birthplace for Dr. King were going to go to Ebenezer church and the national national Park person who's going to give a presentation about what what the church was what Dr. King did in Ebenezer church then were going to go from there. Because is going to be late because were going to get there about probably 1 o'clock in the do all these things they were going to go back to Montgomery where we can spend the night there for the first night and then start out the next day and Montgomery's are the major civil rights is down there right yes yes under good will and to do all of all the museums it was a Parks Museum of the new civil rights Museum everything we can possibly do. And Montgomery run to where the slaves were sold in the slave market where Rosa Parks was a part of the worship where she lived in or did her work and all that kind of stuff and were she got on the bus with will do that on our bus going down.

By the way, we always save seat number 94 Rosa Parks that's always that's always what we do know so the blasters there was a wiser CMC and the seat is empty because we want to read remember and have the students remember in the folks remember this is where Rosa Parks way upfront here and will be down usually is. If people will find out a lot of white folks are sitting in the back and about African folks for you interesting and in Thursday morning Teske being saved Tuskegee airmen all that and had back then right right right $325 that Elliott doesn't include is your dinner so you would leave Monday morning come back Thursday night and if your intranet is only six seats left. It's really an incredible opportunity, and and Ken will be leaving that one of the leaders of the trip himself sought to give me his email address. If you're interested.

I know it's last minute, but what a huge blessing if I can go.

I would definitely not this time that I would deftly want to do this in the future.

Just cinnamon email okay it's rev G cans are EV, GKN, rev and just cinnamon and email appearance of the do it soon. Okay, it is only six seats left. Rev G so after I was Wesleyan in your experience in Atlanta going through all that the name of the Boston University school of theology and actually Dr. King called because Selma was coming up grow also so that all happened there will be Sunday happened and Dr. King called because he with the next couple days later and he went to the up to the bridge again and could see that this is attractive, just a trap and so he called and spoke to Dean builder and he said to Dean builder. What I need. I clergy down here wearing colors and the need allot any two buses full of clergy and so the Dean call me and I do know I was being called in the Dean's office and he called me and said your social concerns. Just yes sir I am and what what what am I supposed to do. He said you going to be in charge of the two buses.

Harvard Divinity school Andover Newton seminary and BU were all that I limped and were going to go down on this Monday were going down to the seller to be with Dr. King because he needs help in the need for clergy wearing colors so that was one first times a day of the feudal ever were colored and so is my honor and real privilege to lead the group meet with this very very early on that on the morning to one or 2 o'clock in the morning. We went through Verizon or something had to do before he got on the bus.

Well, yes we had a get give the Dean are last will and testament that we had and the Dean he would let anybody go on the bus reviewed it didn't hand in their at least the recognition over the writing that they had at last will and testament and so is just a recognition of the reality of that you most likely define what he said yes and we were not sure you're all going to back or any of your so it was a little no heart wrenching to say the least.

So we did risk on the bus and we got parents know you're going. Oh yeah my my mom and dad knew a lot of anybody try to talk you know they knew better. We are German after all edges very rarely regular. Good luck with that right, persistent, and so we went down and got clobbered with the vegetables and stones on the bus and stuff but we made it there is pulling and there, but only all you.

Oh, just will coming to the over the over ducts that they were with that by inviting you under travel and rooted, we were bombarded not big rocks with lots of gravelly kind of thing that was a little worse earthshaking to say the least. We just we just sang and prayed that spirit that we just knew we got down and the people we saw at the Brown Chapel were standing there with Dr. Alden being crutches and bandages is up no there was a few people in crutches and bandages, but the rest of the people were standing there singing and praising and worshiping the Lord and we got off. It was like stunning. It was stunning.

The photographers were there from all kinds of media and that kind of thing. So the two busloads. We unloaded when we went to Brown Chapel.

The people who were sitting in the front all stood up and moved out of the front of the church so we could go down to the fire and be right in the presence Dr. King and and all the folks welfare by that was there that was that was very moving. They would give up the front seat. We went to sit in the back stand around, but they wanted to come in the front. They wanted to have an experience with presence there and it was great. Dr. King which I don't member the message that time, but Dr. King preaching was always dynamic and heartfelt and the spirit lead that just as awful. It was powerful awesome.

So then after couple hours that we were really translating a lot by 9 o'clock at night. We were sure yeah and so we Dr. closed the meeting and we… We quickly go to sleep so no know there's going to be all night prayer meeting, so because I was privileged to be the leader of the group. The pastor of the church was going to be the worst one. The staves of these so you can stay just a little bit yesterday with you just a little bit. The rest of the groups all went to either churches or to homes and I went to the pastor's home where he typed up for me a letter to send to the all the parishioners and Marstons Mills thinking I brought letters and ready to send with stamps and everything and we ran that off and got it ready for the meal. The next morning and this morning first thing right of we put it in the mail. We came to that they Brown Chapel and when we came there that students who had their house where they were staying shot out the first floor was all shot up. I quickly clamp. They all wanted to leave because they said they want to come to Selma and be shot dead if they want to walk and make a difference in voting rights and that kind of thing. So I went and talked to Martin, I said please their whole group is ready there to ready to run their terrified.

I think the house touch I don't know what kind of stuff so he came over and had newspaper in the newspaper had a picture of us on the front of somebody else boy and it said northern agitators arrive we we had seen it.

He's but he saw that they don't come across as an agitator will that but ready with its good and he's he's his message for a good 45 minutes was about. It takes agitation to want to get the dirty wash clean and easily quoted from Isaiah is equally José. He just quoted profit after profit what what the prophets had to do. We were there in a prophetic moment.

It was powerful, powerful, everybody said okay and so we got trained again at how to do cluster with you got beaten one person. Are you clustered together get together we got together we get we know that's all right Joe, what about the role of prayer in all this talk will follow the good Dr. King did nothing did nothing ever, without lots of prayer all night prayer meetings of prayer and fasting. I learned to pray.

I really learn to pray with Dr. King because will have learned before we really read prayers and their use, praying the best that you know but no you have it with Dr. King.

It was pray from your heart.

Listen to what God is saying to you and pray from your heart and pray like you're like you're right in the presence of the Lord was like that was so different that with just so revolutionary in my whole life.

Yeah, because all of a sudden you got that Isaiah experience in the throne room as opposed to just kind of a stale and I think liturgical, not an negative connotation way but kind of sterile, formal, as opposed to a let's let's talk to the man that chose to die on the cross for you who loves you and is with you and will never leave you or forsake you. And he's right there with you. That's a totally different type of prayer than a lot of experience and if you talk about that and where it all went from there and how we ended up together today will be right that packets email this email was so so glad you're with us today a conversation we don't get to have very often with somebody that most of us would never meet somebody like Rev. Ken Stiegler.

He was grew up in it and why context is in it is a Caucasian man in Connecticut and went to Ohio Wesleyan ended up at unit Boston University school of theology, but had an opportunity go to Atlanta and get some training with Dr. King and Dr. with Jesse Jackson and with the whole movement down there and actually went back when he is at Boston University and in the school of theology to go down to Selma blood. He Sunday had happened in Dr. King called up there and said we need a couple buses of clergy, people with callers to have that type of presence when they were going to be a cross that bridge again so so the day comes for that March on some on what and can what what was that like to come and take us and there is much as you can. Here's. It was the training week we did a whole week of training we went to the courthouse and we did black/white, black, white, black, wait in the line into groups of 10 to go the courthouse to help people register to vote.

That's what were doing that whole week before the mark started and the people were turned away because the they couldn't read German of the could read French and I couldn't really tell you but white folks went in they could read Dick and Jane and that but the Afro-American people just did not get that they they got a book in the language that was the training and here's what happened. As a coordinator for the group of the two buses I was. I promised my mother and father on that Saturday. That was I was going to remarry them for their 25th wedding anniversary is 23 years old. I was very, so I prayed with the group, and a couple of wonderful brothers took over the leadership of the group and I got on the plane wearing a G ROW button which stood for, get rid of Wallace was very unpopular plane and I took the button off my pocket so I didn't get a slot along the flame and got there in time to remarry. My mom and dad know they will know the March, I was able to pray with them and send them forth, and all with the blessing of the BU seminary, but I had to get back to my mom and dad. I did that and over Connecticut and I drove back the next morning to the parsonage and Marstons Mills and was quite surprised at this little teeny church where just a brand-new student pastor there and I was surprised to see all my belongings on the front yard out the front yard and when the trustees indicated that they didn't want more need for a pastor I never heard that they don't want to what they do want you more need for a pastor.

What is that more bigger than Nigbor, and I had never experienced that I never even heard the used car lot. I'd never heard that anywhere is your coming from this righteous cause, and entered them here just like mine will be the devil himself up and the reason it spurred their their negativity was I sent that letter from Selma. Yeah, thinking it was going to be a really very significant historical document. I thought it would be so important for them for history and so only one person that actually the one of the teachers at school thought it was very important but everybody else, they were just there, furiously or furiously. I learned a little bit after that to was in a Ku Klux Klan clan meeting in Mashpee, right next door to Marstons Mills where I was until they had really poor little poison into their heart so so anyway but everything was out and I called the Bishop vision competition superintendent is exuberant and it came down I couldn't go to the meeting and I don't know what the district superintendent said, and then nobody ever told me, but the men came back about 830 at night and asked where to put everything back in the house and I here's what I did know what was told I said what why you will hear the Bishop said you're not leaving until we love you, that took four years of working ministries and we just work together and they found out that I was just a loving pastor in a training and pastoral counseling as well as interest theological training as regular counseling with a lot of very harsh celebrations is community weed. We worked it out that we worked it out. Was it like to be in DC for the I have a dream speech.

Show how many are pretty good seats only throw a overate I was right in front there it was unbelievable. I had lot of friends from BU that want to come down, so I made arrangements with the United Methodist church to go to homes of people and when they one of the homes the homes of people there they were giving rifles that were getting pistols that was going to be people. I stayed with the head pistols and rifles by they knew it was going to be our revolution was awful and terrifying and I said no it's not. It's going to be peaceful.

It was extremely peaceful and the thing they took pictures of at the end of it all was the will. They didn't take their trash away with the they were trash barrels, but is only a few trash barrels to subpoena a course there was trash all piled around it so it that was one of the takes in Washington DC that the trash moved to black evil just come in here in the white educators are coming here and trashing our and our nation's capital wasn't true and it wasn't true when he gave a speech. Should you have any indication at the time just how historic that was oh, this is one of the most famous speeches in history, but it was riveting it with me. There was there was a silence and there was a name ending and that it was it was it was riveting. It just you could tell that he had been to the mountaintop and he heard from the Lord, and this with more put on his heart. They just shared powerful. It was so powerful that hate you and how did you find out that Dr. King had been assassinated. I got a call I got a call this because of some folks that a new install from SNCC and slick and all that I got a call right away and after like a common I just didn't have the money.

I just really is that I was only getting $50 a week, serving as a student pastor just did not have them. Was there a sense of inevitability did with people think Shirley somebody is going to try to kill the will is now just week on one critical thinker Dr. King Creek prayed this prayer will prayer sorry this is that after receiving the telephone call he received about 40 calls a day when he was at home and in desperate parsonage all but anyway he received a call anyway, here's here's the prayer he was sitting at the kitchen table at the end. This is the prayer that he prayed Lord, I am here taking a stand for what I believe is right. But now I am afraid the people looking to me for leadership and if I stand before them without strength encourage, they too will falter. I'm at the end of my powers, I have nothing left. I've come to the point where I can't fix it alone. In Jesus name, amen. That was a prayer at his kitchen table and was recorded because it was is so that was the turning point because he was really his life was felt threatened by heat just had to give it all to the Lord. Total surrender and just made the decision that no matter what it costs no matter what it cost he was going to go for what what what would you have all of us listening today and will you have us learn from what you learned, but would you pass on all of us as white people listening black people listening Hispanics people that say love the Lord, what do we take away from your experience will the thing I would say is we need to be disciplined enough to totally surrender our lives and it takes an enormous discipline is not an easy thing to walk through each of the places where the dogs and the bats and the guns and we went to Atlanta airport on the way coming back from that trip from Westland and we had to walk through a complete corridor of a National Guard with because the people on the on the airport.

There were we have lunch were all there with chains and and clubs and then wrenches and stuff.

We had to be protected to go through a whole corridor of military personnel so thing I would say is what we come a little and we have come a little, but were just we are not there. We are not there. Were we really love and respect and have learned how to total surrender our lives to Jesus Christ and walk in a godly Christlike way, not just saying the words, but living it out in community and walking together with our brothers and sisters yeah because I think one of the challenges is because life and only first century America in 2020.

Doesn't look the way it did in 1962, and so where things were were much more obvious then just in terms of those classes in play Sunday and everything was going on today I think it's not quite as obvious as it was back then. And so I think I asked you this question we had breakfast before where it has the it has the appearance of being so much better. But how do you look at it because I know that you don't really see it that way know the poverty level in the black communities is awful. The fact that Afro-American men have been really use the language have been really castrated by our society is not being worthwhile and leave their families because they feel hopeless and they feel helpless and they feel They filled actually destroyed so they don't have the self-confidence because they were taught that you can't look to the white you can't look them in the night, you can't talk to him face-to-face. You can't look at a white woman and that I still see that I still see a lot of Afro-American men with their heads when you say hello they put their heads down and I asked him to stop exit. Please, I want to see you face-to-face. I try everywhere I can do. Say you you you not under that kind of regime any longer you live there anymore.

Where were freeware for your to do list and voting is so important. I everywhere I go in the F American guy try to share please get out and vote. Get out and vote. Get out and vote. It cost a lot of people their lives such as sacred honor to ability that we don't wait on the perspectives Americans given the lack of a context meant EIF. I don't I don't like their all scumbags. Whatever you eat to your point, you have no idea what people suffered in order to give a separate weather Afro-American white your age women. I mean, it took an inner took an amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Give women the right to vote as well as African-Americans the right to vote.

This is been we talk about blood spilled for our freedoms. The freedom to vote is one of those spilled not only by soldiers but by people marching in the street and and I had the honor of working with the Black Panthers in New Bedford when that riot broke out years ago. And the reason they will work with the Black Panthers as I worked with the priest and he was going to work with the policing so you better work with the Black Panther training. Dr. King so you know I did it was.

There was a real privilege to work with them as they really were very they could be very, very decent men, but they were very angry and frustrated. You talk about a tough counseling situation.

Hey, let's go get the white reverend who was trained by Dr. King to come talk to the Black Panthers while you had a really interesting life of the gay but he could make that one out by land and again and again. The six seats left. Going next Monday.

Literally next Monday on this five day tour civil rights store and reverent candidate to be one of the leaders on. That's if you want to find out about a 23 and $25 includes everything except your dinner and was also put it up on Facebook have she Can I can enqueue an upcoming insurance. Let's do it again okay and have not had time nearly got bless you.

You're welcome. This is Steve note on the seat number. So, God willing.

I talked again real soon and like my dad always used to say ever for

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