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Pastoring in a Crisis

The Steve Noble Show / Steve Noble
The Truth Network Radio
April 16, 2020 1:02 pm

Pastoring in a Crisis

The Steve Noble Show / Steve Noble

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April 16, 2020 1:02 pm

Pastoring in a Crisis

COVID-19 has caused a massive crisis with unemployment now affecting over 6.6 million Americans. So, as Christians and Pastors, how do we prepare ourselves to spread the word to people in times of chaos? Today, Ronjour Locke,  Instructor of Preaching and Urban Ministry at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, joins us on this wonderful Theology Thursday! Walking us through pastoring in a crisis!

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Everyone is time for this noble show where Christianity meets the everyday issues of life in your home, at work, and even in politics. Steve is an ordinary man who believes in an extraordinary God it on a show, there's plenty of grace and lots of true but no sacred six portrait six 634 true or checking out online noble show.com now is your host Steve Noble okay back a little bit today were not talking directly about the coronavirus were not talk about politics not talking about Trumper not talking about the right of the left were not talking about what's going on internationally. Were not talking about the five and half million additional people filing for unemployment which brings the total up to 20 million, but that is part of the of the conversation. Today it is part of what were doing today on theology Thursday which is really focusing on pastoring in a crisis and then you know talking to pastors and how you pastor in this crisis and if you had started, let's say back in February or January you. It started at your church. You are going to do a sermon series on the book of Ephesians and work your way through that, should you suspend that sermon series, and just be preaching in the context of where were at now and what ever talk about a health crisis the financial crisis which is growing more all the time. We are a nation in crisis is the darkness there. There's confusion. There's some fear and so what you do with all that. How do you pastor in a crisis and then with our friends here at Southeastern Baptist theological seminary where I am broadcasting to you from right now. In most cases this is where I met if you'd like to actually join us. Kind of here in the studio then just join us on Facebook life. You can do that were live Monday through Friday from 4 to 5 PM Eastern time on the all the radio stations around which we praise the Lord for but also have right here on Facebook live in the during the commercial breaks we can have a sidebar conversations any little kind of community within the community.

So if you want to join us. Just go to without the radio page on Facebook the Steve Noble show on Facebook or we might be personal friends on Facebook. I think I have room for about three more people here keep having to go back in time and remove some folks executing the 5000 number there, but I appreciate Facebook is a great way for us to communicate and in the kind of go through these things together all about community. So we do theology Thursday every week and at Southeastern seminary here in Wake Forest, North Carolina. They have the Southeastern Center.

They have three different centers of the Southington Center for pastoral leadership and preaching the director of that is the first centered preaching and pastoral leadership is also an instructor here of preaching in urban ministry.

He's been on the show and it's great to have him back again and runs your lock so good to hear from you my brother how are you doing well. Thank you very much for what director you're very welcome. Thanks for your time today and normally we would be doing that in person, but obviously a strange little season here in working to unpack a lot today in terms of pastoring in a crisis in and out but I want everybody to understand runs your I mean you you pastor during a crisis before because you are in Baltimore during the riots in that environment. So let let's start there with your own background and and kind of what it was like to deal with pastoring and trying to to help people in love people and lead them well in the midst of a really dicey situation than what course will broaden that into where were at today while I tell you first. First off it. It is interesting you. You'll like me, you feel like when you're entering into the ministry that you don't really know what you're doing you taken the classes he read the books and so on. But there is nothing like being in that position. There's nothing like pastoring nothing can really ultimately prepare you for you, you can take all the classes and you can get these skills and equipment if you will that you need but but until your pastor, you just don't quite understand what what it is so you you you come in a little bit blind, a little bit you wondering you know what what could happen and and are you the person for that position at there's nothing like being a pastor during a time of crisis because I can magnify that you can get in and you can feel a bit shellshocked like you like you really aren't the person for the past what was really amazing for me what I was during that season in Baltimore during the riots and so on, that there were little things that the Lord did that. That really settled me down little things that that he used to communicate to me that I was indeed the right person for the job as inadequate as I felt me with him was all was all that I needed to get out my bio you skilled wanted it left me with along with his great Holy Spirit that was enough to sustain me during that time there was little things like the encouragement of the church. The encouragement of course the wife, and then just the confirmation as I will go through the Scriptures and then I would just see that the Lord was with me. You know little promises that you given through the Scriptures, that he was with me to the beaker strong and courageous like old Joshua nor fear not for I am with you like you told Isaiah or you spoke through Isaiah, little things like that that comforted me and sustained me through that season. There were some sweet times of prayer. There were sweet times where I was with the Lord and I would cry out to him and just say Lord is sufficient for the thing and yet you would assure me with his grace. I couldn't done it without you It's a beautiful testimony. And of course his strength is made perfect in her weakness, and I think we need to approach these things and this will be directed even though were talking about pastors, pastors day and pastoring in a crisis administering the pastors which will need to remember that this is a very strange season for all of us. It includes our pastors and oftentimes I think we assume pastors can have it all together. I really as you are six condescending fed up runs your I was thinking about you. Like you don't really know what you're doing you take the classes, read the books that you get the education then you get thrown into the fire and I was thinking that sounds a lot like parenting.

You can read all the glasses and read all the books go to the classes in the near like okay and I got a kid in your lap and what I do at this thing and that's all I remember not just were not the only ones going through this crisis that our pastors are as well is the tension of trying to submit to the governing authorities to a certain extent and then how do you how you message and how do you minister to your people when you can even be together.

I mean this is this is got to be a first for pastoral leadership in American history, at least in modern history. Don't you think I've seen people mention pastors in the past that Spurgeon and Francis Greinke, and others who have written and and even their sermons were collected during time of pandemic by Weatherby.

The Spanish flu were the black plague or or others, and in the past and it's good to read from them and to learn from them. But of course so much as changed so much as the same again so much as changed over the course of the century even even more than a century, was purchased by this definitely in our lifetimes like nothing that I have ever seen before, and yet the Scriptures are still physicians still right exactly right Roger John Homer talking to Prof. runs your lock is here at Southeastern Baptist theological seminary and instructor preaching in urban ministry. He was preaching and ministering in Baltimore during the riots is also the director of the Center for preaching and pastoral leadership.

Be right back and ask yourself is about music, so it changes in here different sounds and there's some of them are secular. Some of them are going to break Christian that one is my buddy Matt, who X actually has to be.

There's not a lot of actual hymn writers anymore out there, but Matt pop is one of them. He just did a song in conjunction with the Geddes and he did a lot of stuff with the Geddes Christmas and Christmas concert. He's just remarkably talented. So if you want to check out Matt pop is music Matt pop a.com sent a paid announcement is different in my newly blessed by his music is a noble family favorite Matt pop IP APA.com today theology Thursday with our friends at Southeastern Baptist theological seminary talking to runs your lock is a professor and instructor out here for preaching in urban ministry. Also, the director of the Center for preaching and pastoral leadership and not and I know you're thinking right now. While not a pastor so that doesn't matter to me. Yes it does. It should matter to you because a lot of things that Roger will share this today about pastors we need to be thinking about that for ourselves and as Christians as well. Plus for your pastor.

Maybe share this or pass this along to your pastor and let him know about the Southeastern Center for pastoral leadership in preaching, especially in these strange days that were in southeastern doing some great things for local pastors here in the in the Triangle area of North Carolina were there a lot you know giving them the opportunity to come in for free and videotape professionally videotaped their sermons and doing all kinds of stuff that got a schedule set up so if your pastor you want to get that kind help. You can contact Southeastern to go to the Southeastern Center for pastoral leadership in preaching and I were talking about pastoring in a crisis today and in the pet pastor and professor Roger Locke is with us who was in Baltimore 2015. During the riots. So he has gone through this experience of pastoring a pet being a pastor in a crisis and try to pastor people well as well as dealing with yourself. So we really appreciate you being here today around George.

Great timing and I just think the Lord for that. Thank you for your time. Thank you very much welcome so as were kind of rolling into this and then over to talk about the center as well because a lot of resources there and pastors need help and I think oftentimes run George from of those of us on our pastors, which is the vast majority of us.

I don't know how often we put any serious consideration or thought into the needs of the challenges of our pastors.

I think for most of most part we just assume you guys have it all together all the time. Yeah laughter. Unfortunately VeriFone pastors who relish that all Smith's share of what were the for the normal birthday the actual pastor. We are constantly aware of, you know we we we realize that we wake up and you know by about midday.

You know you are pretty evident that we we are not the saviors of the world.

Whether you being at the bedside or or course nowadays with a social thing like just the fact that we aren't able to be there at the bedside and that we aren't able to to be there with our congregation to give you know or or just face-to-face creation. Things like that. With all due respect to zoom in Microsoft teams and all these other all the technology that we have publicly it just doesn't replace face-to-face and you have pastors who definitely feel extensive inadequate nest if if they didn't feel it already. Before pandemic and so forth. It can be very very taxing them. One of my favorite heroes in the faith is that Charles Spurgeon and if you read his lectures to my servants for electric bike by student, I was a fantastic book. He had a college out and in London still exists and and he would have these little fireside chats that you will where you would talk to the students for Work or something like that and I one of the chapters in the book, which is a compilation of messages. The chapters called the minister's fainting fits the minister's fainting fits which basically in layman's terms is all the stress that pastors have to deal with, but basically what the chapters about and an end.

Spurgeon accordance famously known for his bouts with aggression and he's not alone, of course, but we know that even in our own day there. There's been many documents of pastors have suffered with depression and taken their own lives or the weight of it all. So this is obviously something that churches need to commit themselves to on a regular basis.

Pray for your pastors don't don't get caught up in the false deceit that that pastors are the invincible Superman or anything like that. Now we have argument with our wives and our kids all the time and and we have to manage.

You know our sinfulness like the flash and all of these things as well.

Pray for your pastors pray and and we pray not only that God will be with them, but that in some ways you as a church member. Good help to lift the burden that he faces on a regular basis. Such a great word. Thank you for that encouragement and the challenge subject. What did you come to learn about being a pastor and even message selection and how you deal with that I mean that was a what was happening in Baltimore I mean there's the overall environment in Baltimore in general and then of course with the riots specifically around the arrest and in the civil unrest that took place. So what did you learn from that round sure that that maybe could be applicable to what pastors are dealing with today, just in terms of being in a strange kind of difficult, challenging circumstance, and then we'll talk a little about how this is so different in many ways than what you experience in Baltimore.

Yeah, well, for starters off a couple of things and I'll give Alanna or recognize that the Scriptures are so efficient.

There is never been a situation in the history of the world that the Scriptures were just simply inadequate to deal with and to address God knows this world and God knows the situations that goes that that that no one in this world and God obviously is is is all -wise and all-knowing in his word is sufficient for these time for the situation you thing to do is to pray, pray, to this very God, pray for his spirit to give you wisdom and understanding. It may mean that you table your theories that you work so hard on it may mean that you look at that. And look at the Scriptures that you're drifting in that.

In a completely different way. So when I was pastoring during the riot. We have blandly curable or that during that particular year.

We would go through letter to the Ephesians and I and so we were going through at all the messages mapped out. It'll force the dangerous task work that you never know what's going to happen, but right around the week that the riots were going to happen. I was faced with a situation where I had to ask myself is this what I'm going to greet her at my table this. Interestingly, we were right at the part where the Lord was talking about how Jews and Gentiles become one in Christ and I tell you I just had a little moment by myself or I celebrated and praise the Lord for the wisdom of his word and I said instead of going to another series were just going to keep on going and because for whatever reason, I thought we were just gonna walk away per Ephesians and the Lord was preparing us to go through that particular letter so that at that time with that crisis in our community we could speak speak to it with the Scriptures with that letter and say hey we have a different message than what our neighbors are telling us Jews and Gentiles, and even our case in Baltimore Gentiles to file can be brought together or be one in Christ Jesus, that we could experience the love for one another we can bond that only Christ can create. You could be you can table it was stable.

What a great point Roger and John Holder talking on his door lock pastor as well as a professor here at Southeastern Baptist theological seminary teaches preaching in urban ministry is also the director of the Center for preaching and pastoral leadership pastoring during a crisis is a strange thing talking about will be right back to back his noble show.

It is theology. Thursdays we got a lot of new stations here in North Carolina we all of that is out there. Pastor Nealon and Sen. Carl and I just people that God is just raised up to allow to be a part of what's going on at this radio show and then trying to reach more more people cross our own state were on another states, but were primarily focused here and around Jerusalem in our own Judeo, and so we I think the Lord for that.

In this show today so theology Thursdays. We do every week of our friends at Southeastern Baptist as well as today, focusing on pastors and how do you pastor during a crisis like this. And so if most of you are pastors and you should learn from this. There's there's words of encouragement and challenge and knowledge that we can all gain from this conversation today, but then share with your pastor and share the resources I put a link up to the Southeastern Center for pastoral leadership in preaching, which is all about serving the pastoral community, especially in these strange days a lot of challenges right now for pastors and micron sure was saying Roger Locke is with us today about praying for our pastors reaching out just call and see how they're doing and the lack of personal interaction is very challenging. Many of you know, I teach for high school age home school classes every week of got 88 students. I did two classes today. Two classes yesterday online resume and I've been talking to him and just engaging them on this environment that were in right now and across the board.

The number one thing that they missed the most in this digitally connected society is proximity sitting down with friends, going to a restaurant were friends hanging out with friends being together now son were in a situation whereby law by force of law were not allowed to do that and I could go down all kinds of roads of the violation of First Amendment which doesn't seem to matter to a lot of people but that's not the point. Today were talking really from the pastoral care and from a preaching perspective with our good friend Roger Locke again. Roger, thanks so much for being with us today. It's a great topic. Thanks very much, and I almost got out of hand with photos there during. I am so encouraged that you know the song which just draws us even closer as brothers in Christ, so that is a blast mentioning that you will you are saying.

I think this is such an important point. I wanted to answer this question that during the riots there. Baltimore you would plan to go into Ephesians and all of a sudden Ephesians takes on a whole another facet like a beautiful diamond and God just showed you that you know what this is actually the perfect study to be doing right now should should pastors in a situation like were in now and I was mentioning this off the air in and on here and have been for days were so many things are upset or talking about health issues, fear, anxiety, were talking about real economic impact should pastors really be leaning more in the direction of speaking directly to the context of the circumstances.

Right now, or should they stay in the context of hey were going to this particular book of the Bible what what what would you say to them about about just what you do right now from a preaching perspective. While I think that in every situation in every context. Each pastor needs to go to the Lord, you need to be on your face before the Lord and praying for wisdom may very well be that is Scripture, what he was pointing you to or all of this was going on is exactly where you want you to be.

It may be that he is preparing you for something else and he's leaving you in that direction could give a a another work to the folks I think that whatever the situation may be there a few baseline think that II understate to our our our students the night and the fate of those were already in the preaching ministry.

First off, make sure whenever you're preaching the word of God that there preaching to this time and this place that you are preaching in context, and I know usually when we say preaching conduct were talking about the context of the Scriptures, and that of course is certainly true, but take the message as you understood it within the context of of the original author and apply it to the particular context I got a place you went right now and so that may be that if you're in a text that is dealing with the sovereignty of God or or like that will give you an opportunity to speak about how God is sovereign even in a pandemic, because that's where we are. That's what what we're what were dealing with right now. The Scriptures have a an amazing capability of being so strong and firm, and yet being so nimble and what I mean by that isn't that the meaning of the exchange is certainly not what God said is what God continues to be back with what he says but rather we find new avenues in this study is one of the desiccants of that meeting from time to time. I mean think about it.

These Scriptures which God spoke look for the New Testament. For instance, to a first century group of at least the beginning, Jews, Jewish believers who had different backgrounds and of themselves is the very same message that God is speaking now to 21st century America Gentiles on the complete opposite side of the world with all the technology and all the changes. Of course that happened between then and now the Scriptures are still the same. And yet there nimble enough to speak the different people in different context, a different setting so recognized that and embrace that but that may need in this setting that you may have to space him pastoral things from the Scriptures to the people that are in your situation, so you may continue on and kind of contextualize this in the light of what God is doing in all of Scripture, and that made for you up debris from different text and breach in different on different topics and so on that but the Scriptures may address or you may decide with you with the spirit wisdom that you want to speak at this directly and certainly other scriptures that are available for speaking directly to this crisis are there because I know the seminary mentioned this earlier, the seminaries, providing as a free resource to local pastors the ability to come in.

I have your your sermon professionally recorded, videotaped in the studio and I like honest opposite is there, like some new norms that go along with that when you're preaching in your pulpit versus preaching online and preaching to a camera. Essentially, when you know your people are out there, but it doesn't come to change the pastoral job in terms of preaching at all formatted certainly changes to feel. I would much rather be looking at human being I've been looking at the screen. I write nothing can replace that what you know and in this situation you got it out of the sender. You gotta think, especially for those who number of elderly brothers and sisters in your in your congregation. You got it to.

Gotta think along those lines as well. Complied much as you can in the fact the matter is, the Lord has still gathered of people in a particular location together to bear witness to Christ as a body as a as a corporate family in the local church and and as you recall, the shepherd that that particular flock you may have to use these technological means hopefully temporarily until were able to gather again were talking to Roger Locke is an instructor preaching in urban ministry here at Southeastern Baptist theological seminary. This theology Thursday as it is every week on the show is also the director of the Center for preaching and pastoral leadership.

I put those links on the Facebook page during the Facebook lives of the links are there so that you can share that with the pastor if your pastor go check out all the things that are there to talk about that in the fourth segment. What about the because a lot of people when things are kinda crazy like this runs your will start thinking and times will start thinking eschatology and outcome of a prophetic environment to any any kind of input on pastors moving in that direction because I'm always very hesitant to get up on a soapbox and say hey let me tell you what God is doing here but what about that opportunity from a kind of an intense prophetic perspective.

I guess yeah I would say first off, realize that the Lord still has not given time and date like that of the Lord is good to the apostle. It is not for you to know that I'm there anything like that but the Lord has given a fine and I that the way that I interpret your tax is that the signs don't necessarily tell you that Jesus is coming tomorrow but the signs are there to sure you out of complacency and to remind you that we are heading where history is heading towards the net so these findings are kinda mild markers if you will, to remind us of the end of the story and and so whether were talking about. Think of me. My goodness right now.

We got the pandemic going on globally got locusts in Africa. We got lead even just this morning snow in the Northeast flurries and things like that in April I mean there are so many things that that we could look at and I'm sure somebody's chart are there already updating your chart revising them and all that but I think the point of all of that is to remind ourselves a this is coming to an end. Jesus is coming back. We do need to turn from our sin. We do need to turn to Christ before we do, of course, find ourselves out of time.

What a great point and I love that phrase I just I just type that in as you are saying it on Facebook lives to jar you out of your complacency and that's so important to remember that, and to remind ourselves we see that so obviously now of how fragile the entire world system is you can turn the entire world system upside down with something. You can even see in a matter of weeks and that's just how fragile everything is setting itself up nicely for whatever the Lord decides Jesus to come back for talking to Prof. Roger Locke is an instructor preaching a servant in a straight Southeastern Baptist theology. Thursday the show is theology Thursday as it is every week with our friends at Southeastern Baptist theological seminary today talking about pastoring in a crisis of focusing the pastoral ministry and what pastors can do in the midst of this, but let's make sure most of us most of you listening you're probably not a pastor. For those of you that are God bless you think you we should think our pastors is likely think are our military men and women just like we think first responders police fire.

We should be thinking our pastors regularly as well.

That's very difficult job very challenging a lot of weights there held to a higher standard by the Lord. Those organ to teach that can be a very scary thing fear and trembling gnashing of teeth, all that good stuff.

And so we need to be honoring and caring for our pastors and so pastors you out there listening. Thank you God bless you and we appreciate you we honor you were talking to Roger Locke today was an instructor preaching in urban ministry knows a little bit about preaching a crisis because he was preaching in and pastoring in Baltimore during the riots there back in 2015 is now here Southeastern Baptist again. Roger really appreciate you being with us today. Thank you so much as been a wonderful conversation absolutely, and I just want everybody.

Please share this on your own Facebook pages. Listen to the podcast later share the podcasts with your pastor because I was excited about this because we wanted to be a blessing. The pastors we can all learn from this conversation, obviously, but let's make sure please share with your pastor, make sure they get a hold of of this so they can be encouraged as well. I wanted that to turn the corner little bit and talk about the Southeastern center here at the seminary for pastoral leadership in preaching because I want everybody to really understand what kind of resources are here.

People tend to think Southeastern or other seminaries. Okay people go there that want to become pastors and then they go out to do other things that are going to go be Christian counselors are going to work in the mission field but but there's a big aspect of at south of Southeastern. Anyway, that's about serving the church and serving in this case pastors tells about the center. Yeah.

So we have our mission statement that weakness to equip and encourage pastors to lead a healthy disciple making churches for the glory of God around the world. Of course, if you know anything about Southeastern you know that we're crazy about the great commission, we we take Jesus's final marching orders very seriously here and I pastors are right there on the front lines of making disciples as Jesus commanded and so we want to make sure that we equip our pastors and that we are encouraging pastors how do we quit pastors well, for starters, recognize that I think I said earlier in our conversation that no two churches are identical know should know to pass places are identical you are in a specific location with a specific group of people in a specific time in history and and you want to know exactly how you can shepherd these people in this place right here, right now we want to help you with that I would want to provide resources that are cookie-cutter not one-size-fits-all because that's not reality but rather how do we deal with the heat and particular situations that were dealing with. How do we do so well course through the wisdom of Scripture, but also we will encourage pastors as we said before pastoring is not pastoring is not the thing apart. There's a reason that Paul his last words to Timothy in the last letter that he wrote he said over and over again that good eventually. Don't quit. Sharon suffering be a good soldier and and and so one. Why won't the fact the matter is that it's not easy to be a pastor's heart, you could read Paul's own confession and in second Corinthians. I leave it in chapter 11, where he began, bullet point list of all the things that you got a deal with and Justin being in ministry.

This is reality and there are a lot of pastors who feel the temptation to quickly feel the temptation to do something, perhaps a bit easier.

Grab something where they could actually sleep at night while we want to be able to encourage pastors we want to help them to realize.

You're not alone.

There are plenty of other guys. I like with the work that we live to 37,000 not been the need to bail and we want to remind them of that, even in this location course where your North Carolina and we want to be able to to connect pastors here in North Carolina but also brought this to help them to realize that you're not alone.

There are other guys were the same think that you're going through were in our own unique situations, but were facing a lot of similar struggles and similar challenges.

And as as shepherds of God's flock that we want to be able to communicate that and encourage them equip them with resources to help them to shepherd their flocks a little bit better and hopefully in so doing, I will see a generation or more of disciples were faithfully following Jesus Christ. At the end of your and I really appreciate that that role. That center takes and you talked about it multiple times about encouraging and serving pastors. Besides, continuing education and access to things like that which agree to keep your sword sharp by reaching out to get a buddy over in the Triad area of North Carolina, who runs energize ministries their home ministries. Any Bowersox or home ministries about ministering to pastor praying for pastors providing retreat spaces for pastors and then just getting them out of their context and looking at the website for the center here Southeastern like I don't know how many people know about first Baptist Woodstock, which is done outside of Atlanta.

Their city of refuge and then the soundscape retreats and then helping with sabbatical leaves tell everybody little about that because of those are incredible ways to minister that the body of Christ ministers to pastors that are better tired and worn out some that have had problems in Anne's moral type failures situational things like that. So tell tells about those because that's awesome to see you. Absolutely.

I think that if you are a church member, you should take Hebrews 1317 beriberi. 1370 on my career. My Bible really quickly.

1317 says, obey your leaders and submit them for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account for the benefit of this let them do this with joy and not with groaning for that would be of no advantage to you and I love that verse that the verse that I think every member should have in the frame in their house for you to have a pastor worn out groaning. Not happy, not fearful out you know and and all that.

So you should be thinking of the church member. What can we do to make sure that our pastors stay sharp to make sure that our pastor stayed recharged and refreshed right work energize so that he can continue to be the best shepherd that he can be because that is the ultimate value to us the sheet so there are plenty of places in North Carolina. There are certainly plenty of places around the club around the country that optically on the southern Baptist and so many, many states, your baby, even all of the states around our state conventions have retreat centers places where pastors can go to spend a couple days where they can rest and recharge turn the phone off turn their Internet all get some sleep. For once in their lives and and be able to come back fresh for some of them. It may be that it's right there in those types of retreat where they hear from the Lord in a very real and fresh way. God may give direction to them or how they should shepherd or maybe even see some things in their own lives and our hearts that get to be worked on so that they can be a better, more loving and gracious pastor. Therefore, their congregation, so it is your advantage. Church members that your pastors get the rest and get the recharged they don't be a burden to them rather do what you can to make sure that they are shepherding you with joy. Yet such an important point and I love excitement about the one done at first Baptist Woodstock Johnny was done there for years, the, the city of refuge and this is just from your website from the center's website at Southeastern is me.

City of refuge's goal is to provide critical care for wounded and fallen ministers, given that giving them a safe and loving environment in which to grow and heal.

We all see those times when when pastors follow the moral failing, since failure, something happens.

Leadership whatever and then everybody's heartbroken about it and then it's kind of like the Scarlet letter and then you're outta here, but but we tend to shoot our own. Unfortunately, and in the church at times and I just love the thought of that but he lets remember there pastors are broken people to and need to be loved on a need to be encouraged need to be served and just seeing things like that like what they do at first Baptist Woodstock in the city of refuge is just so important that we have to remember the grace that we received that we need to extend even to our pastors and they mess up at such an important message absolutely that I can add to that are pastors need to remember as well that pastors need pastors you may be in a situation where you're the only guy you're the only pastor here at the church, will you need to find some good, strong, wise, mature, or maybe preferably older season pastors that you can confide that you can bear your heart, you can be honest you can be candid and it and you can trust her counsel. You can trust their wisdom because you know they walk with the Lord. Those are some things that I definitely needed when I was pastoring I had a love of men that were in the ministry, and they knew it I knew that if ever I was feeling it if ever I can feel those gears grinding that I could just call them up and talk with them and that they would give wisdom.

I tell you, there sometimes works out like quitting and and it was solely because of the wisdom and encouragement that they gave that I was able to go an extra mile and so I praise God for them. If you're a pastor you need that as well in your life.

You cannot do this on your own God.

God, who has agreed to do it any other way that you write is there an easy way for them to get to the website for the people that aren't checking on my Facebook page. Absolutely. Just visit our pastor board and you have all the awesome garage door lock professor preaching in urban ministry at Southeast Baptist theological seminary and the director of the center for pastoral leadership.

What that website will Martine Roger pastors center for awesome. Thank you brother God bless you, thank you for your time today. I really appreciate thank you very much welcome. We'll talk again real soon and I always love theology. Thursdays really appreciate all the resources and expertise in Baptist theological seminary. I'll be back tomorrow Friday will got a lot to cover things just developing all the time here in this nation around the world so much to think about.

Which means there's a whole lot Steve Noble shows God willing always


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