Truth Changes Everything!

The following program is recorded content created by Truth Network. Welcome back everybody. Great to be with you.

This is Steve Noble on The Steve Noble Show. Let me jump right to the back of the book that we're going to be discussing today with the author who I will introduce you to in just a moment. This is literally the last page of the book. T truth quote some people may let the torch be snatched from their hands, but others stamp it out themselves unquote direct quote from Alexis de Tocqueville after his tour of America. It's an incredible book two parts to this book democracy in America. Just amazing, but listen to that again.

Some people may let the torch be snatched from their hands, but others stamp it out themselves. Is that now the American story when it comes to the issue of truth. And so a book that's going to be available. You can preorder it now coming out on October 18th by Dr. Jeff Myers. Dr. Jeff Myers is the president of Summit Ministries. I would say the premier apologetics worldview training ministry in the country. Very much reminds me of Libri and the the ability to have conversations and train and teach and walk alongside people and Dr. Noble started that years ago and it's just an incredible ministry. You'll learn more about it today. But Jeff's a book coming out truth changes everything how people of faith can transform the world in times of crisis.

And are we not in a times of crisis and are we not in need of the truth? Dr. Jeff Myers. What a blessing my brother to have you back. It's been way too long and I just thank God for you. How are you doing? Steve doing well, thank you.

I really appreciate it. Yeah, looking forward to our conversation. It's great when we are on the Steve Noble show.

Yeah. Well, I'm pretty sure we'll do a good job together of keeping it lively. This is an issue that's near and dear to my heart and teaching and radio and all these things since you and I met way back and I think 2005 or 2006. This is like I would say the epicenter of really what the Lord has called us to do as individuals. But before we dive into the book, I really want people to understand what Summit Summit Ministries is all about.

Let me just give you the top line here. Summit Ministries equips and supports the rising generation to embrace God's truth and champion a biblical worldview. This rising generation is the least Christian, most secular generation in the history of America. They are only 15% of the population right now that you don't see a lot of the impact of, but they are 100% of the future and preparing them to embrace God's truth and have a biblical worldview that they apply to everything that they do is really now mission critical. And that's what we do through a two week long course of study.

As you mentioned here in our headquarters and little hippie town of Manitou Springs, Colorado, but it's like speed and also look out Mountain, Georgia. And in these two places, we've just finished for this summer training 1,710 young people. We brought together top Christian thought leaders, not only in theology, but also philosophy, ethics, psychology, economics, all of the areas where young adults today are going to be presented with counterfeit worldviews when they're at a college university.

Yeah, that's exactly right. And with all my students that I teach every week, I tell them, listen, you guys are being sold every day all the time from every different direction. You've got 32 gigabytes of information coming at you every day. But unfortunately, many of you, though, you're raised in a Christian home, your operational worldview, your operating system has been infected by the world's thinking when this clear issue of for us as Christians of truth. And in the book, Truth Changes Everything, Jeff, just to kind of tee this up before we hit the first break, you talk about really two versions of truth, one with a capital T truth and then a second one truths with a small t. Help us to understand that that'll be a good cookout point for us to get going. Steve, when you and I were growing up, our teachers would constantly say things like, seek the truth. It's hard, but you can find it. Seek the truth.

You remember all of that? Can you think, oh, I don't know if it's worth it. And they would say, this is the whole point of life. Well, today, teachers are saying something that is the exact opposite. They're no longer saying seek the truth. They're telling students speak your truth, right? That truth is not something that exists independent of our ability to perceive it.

It is up to the individual. There is no ultimate truth, or at least we couldn't. We can't find it. There is no ultimate reality, or at least we can't know it that now, Steve, this, you know, we've been seeing this happen for a long time.

You follow the cultural trend. Well, we've passed the tipping point. We are now there where the majority of Americans now believe that truth is up to the individual. What we do in the next few years to understand the truth and speak it could make a difference for generations.

Yeah, and that's really what's on the line. That's I think the challenge for us as Christians is to not be satisfied, neither you nor myself, Jeff, with just saying, OK, I know the truth. I know the author of truth. I know truth himself. That's found in the form of Jesus Christ and the rest of the world.

Well, oh, well, so they didn't get on the bandwagon and things are just too far gone. I struggle with that myself sometimes. But the reality is, if we're going to love our neighbors as ourselves, Jeff, doesn't doesn't the ultimate capital T truth matter for all of our neighbors, whether they actually believe it or not? Oh, it matters every single day, whether we speak it or not. Truth is something that really exists.

I mean, we know this is true in the physical world. If somebody were to say in a conversation, hey, did you know that water boils at two hundred and twelve degrees Fahrenheit at sea level? It would not be it would not be a responsible thing for their lunch companion to say, well, you know, keep your opinion to yourself, because that's a scientific fact.

If I were to say, oh, did you know that Martin Luther King was shot on April 4th, 1968? It would not be reasonable for someone to say, well, in my culture, it's different because they're historical facts, but they're also moral facts. Every single day, every law that is passed, every law that is enforced is being passed or being enforced because of some moral standpoint. The only question is whose morality and on what basis. So anybody who believes in the truth ever says a word. We're all governed by truth, just as surely as we're governed by the law of gravity. That's exactly right. And that's why when people say, hey, you can't legislate morality, I always tell them that's all we do. It's just a matter of whose morality we're legislating.

That's why the truth is such a big deal. Jeff, I'm going to put you on hold talking to Dr. Jeff Myers. He is the president of Summit Ministries, which I'm going to put links up for that, as well as links to preorder his brand new book, Truth Changes Everything. How people of faith can transform the world in times of crisis. We'll be right back.

Welcome back at Steve Noble, The Steve Noble Show, live, fun, winsome, lively, fun and winsome. How can you do that? How can you be a Christian and be lively and fun and winsome?

Imagine that. Another quote from Dr. Jeff Myers' book, which I love, Truth Changes Everything, coming out October 18th. I'm going to put the links up now. You can preorder it. It'd be better for you to preorder it right from the Summit Ministries Web site. OK, cut Amazon out of that gig and go right to the Summit Ministries Web site.

I'll give you that link here in a minute. But there's a line in here which is really convicting to me as a Christian. I've struggled with this for years as I began to become more educated.

I was pretty early in the process when I met Dr. Jeff Myers back in 2005, 2006. I was acquiring a lot of knowledge. I had a lot of truth, but I didn't have a lot of grace.

And this is in a chapter we'll spend some time on later. Instead of imagining ourselves knocking heads with others, we might imagine walking side by side with them, seeking the truth. Oftentimes to me, when I'm in an argument, a discussion, a debate about the truth, especially in the past, for me, that was just a moment to try to win. I thought I was doing it for the glory of God, but I don't think I was doing it for the good of the other person. And the beauty about the truth of God, Jeff, is that it actually is good for everybody, whether they understand it or not.

God's way works every time it's tried, sometimes quickly, sometimes it takes a while. But when we speak the truth, capital T, talking to Dr. Jeff Myers, shouldn't we be doing that out of love for the Lord and glorifying him, but also for the good of our neighbors, not just to win an argument? Steve, at Summit Ministries, if you were to ask any of our employees, what is your job here? They'll probably tell you their job title, but then they'll get a piece of paper and they will draw a DNA double helix for you.

They'll put the connecting strands like a twisty ladder, a little nucleotide, and they will tell you there are two strands to the DNA of influence. One strand is truth, the other strand is relationship. And they will tell you then, my job is to put connections between truth and relationship for somebody every day, whether they're talking to customers on the phone, hosting guests here at our Summit Ministries headquarters, even our maintenance team. I spent an hour with our maintenance team yesterday, and they were talking about how they specifically fix things and do it in a responsive way with a certain attitude to show the people they're helping that they love them.

And I observe this kind of thing every day. You know, when we talk about truth and love, sometimes people think, oh, well, you know, truth is that hard stuff and love is the squishy stuff. Oh, I just know that I have a good feeling towards someone. Well, Christian Smith from the University of Notre Dame defined love as self expenditure for the genuine good of others. In other words, you may feel loving towards somebody, but you are not actually being loving unless you are expending of yourself for their genuine good. Now, if you're a truth, if you know the truth and you withhold it, is that a loving thing to do? I mean, if I knew, Steve, that a certain company that you had invested in was going to collapse in two weeks and I didn't tell you, you would say you don't love me.

You actually hate me because you're not telling me the truth. So it's this combination of truth and relationship that really makes the difference. We don't want to think of ourselves as two people butting heads with one another. We want to think of ourselves as two people walking side by side toward the truth.

As long as we have that picture in mind, even difficult issues between, you know, conservatives and liberals or red states and blue states can we can still work toward what is best for our nation. Do you find with all the young people that come to summit, Jeff, that if you just have and I'm sure you do this, we just open with that question. What is truth? Is there an ultimate truth?

Is there an identifiable truth? Do you find that most and these are kids that are coming out of Christian homes for the most part. Do you find that they struggle with that question when they first arrive?

Oh, yes. Well, some of them might have heard the discussion before. And so they will say, oh, there is such a thing as absolute truth.

But they can't really give you a defense of that idea. Most of the young people say, well, listen, I know truth must be out there somewhere. I know reality is actually real.

At least I live as as if it's actually real. But, you know, people from different cultures and different life experiences perceive things differently. And therefore, you can't really ultimately know truth. Your perceptions are your reality. They will tell me, which is you can understand that viewpoint. It's reasonable that people would say that it is true that our life experiences, our cultural backgrounds shape our perceptions. But what they're saying is because the because our differences are real, therefore, no truth actually exists. And that's something that we want to really help them think through, just as their scientific facts, just as their historical facts. There are there are moral facts.

You know, we don't just have to ask the question, how do I stay out of jail? We have to ask the question, why should I be good? Your worldview will inform the answer to that question. Yeah, it's such an important point. And for us as Christians to be a follower of Jesus Christ, our presupposition and the scriptures make this abundantly clear is that truth is knowable, truth is identifiable.

God tells us in Romans one what we do with the truth because we don't like the ramifications of it. But when we look at and you discuss this in the book, we're talking to Dr. Jeff Myers, Truth Changes Everything. It's available October 18th. But you can preorder now if you want to go to Amazon, that's fine. But I would suggest you go to Summit Ministries website, summit.org, you know, be able to preorder it there.

And cut Jeff Bezos and the team out of this experience action that we're doing here with our brother Jeff. But when we when you talk about Jesus is the truth, help us understand what that means. Well, Steve, what I mean when I say that Jesus is the truth is to say the truth exists. And it's not just the mathematical formula.

It's not just the set of logical propositions. It's a person. It's Jesus. But if you if you say truth exists and it's just cold hard fact, you haven't spoken the whole truth. There's a there's a personal aspect to truth. And this comes from the Judeo Christian tradition. You see it all throughout the Old Testament scripture. But then in the New Testament, you have Jesus saying in John 8 32, if you follow my teachings, then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free. Well, the word truth he's using there.

I mean, not to get too much into a Bible study about this, but it's really important in the Greek language in which we received of the New Testament originally. This this word truth is the word Alathea. It means reality. Jesus is not saying, follow me and you will know your truth.

Follow me and you will feel better about yourself. He's saying, no, follow me and you will know reality. Think about what an incredible claim that is, Steve. I mean, for for all of those millennia, the priests would try to sort of widen the keyhole through which we could glimpse reality through sacrifices. The philosophers would just talk and talk and talk endlessly about how to widen the keyhole to see reality a little bit more clearly. Jesus comes along and says, are you guys all crowded down there looking through the keyhole?

And he just opens the door. That single thing has changed history more than anything else in all of humanity. Yeah, that's such a great point. And we'll get to that in the next segment.

I'm going to start the next segment asking you about the story of Carrie Nation. But you're making me think of Jesus's time with Pontius Pilate when he said, for this reason, I was born and this reason I came into the world to testify to the truth. And so for us as Christians, when you're pulling your hair out, if you have any left, you're just looking at the world going, the world's going crazy. Well, you're actually accurate because you've got to remember what Jesus said.

What's what's being crazy? It's being out of touch with reality. What's reality? Well, that's that which is true. Then enter Pontius Pilate and the rest of our culture.

Then what is truth? And that's why this is such an important conversation we're having today. Jeff, I'm going to put you on hold. We're talking to Dr. Jeff Myers, the president of Summit Ministries.

This is an incredible book that you need to get for you and your kid. Welcome back to Steve Noble, The Steve Noble Show. Great to be with you today talking about, well, pretty much the most important topic we can ever talk about. Is that the gospel? Well, yeah, the gospel is part of the truth, of course. And then so Jesus comes and you can read this and this is kind of a trick question when you ask people, why was Jesus born? Like, why did he come into the world? And people give you all kinds of beautiful answers. And you go, well, actually, he actually answered the question himself. And that's when he was before Pilate.

I mentioned that what Dr. Jeff Myers a minute ago. For this reason, I was born. And this reason I came into the world to testify to the truth. Now, the gospel is obviously the biggest part of the truth. God's existence, God's moral law and God's word speaks into every nook and cranny of life. That's why if Christianity is in a comprehensive worldview, then what good is it? But it is a comprehensive worldview that, you know, I was trained in that when I got my master's degree in ethics, theology and culture as I taught that to high school students. This is now year number 11 for me. And this is really the battle.

The battle is over. Not just is there a truth that can be known, then what is the truth and what are its implications? And I'm telling you, our young people, I'm warning you right now, I've been talking about this a lot. I talk about it with my parents when kids are thinking about taking my classes is that the world is impregnating your child's mind with a different operating system. Because you've got to consider just go look at their how many hours a day they spend looking at screens or Netflix or Paramount or what's going on in their earbuds.

Most of the time, we don't know. And that's about 32 gigs of information coming at them every day. There's an operating system being built. So they go to the public school system that's being built in there, too.

So they have an operating system. Think of like, wow, what do you call those things in the ocean, Jeff? There's not much on top. There's a whole lot underneath. They sunk the Titanic.

What is that called? We're showing our age all of a sudden. It's not a glacier. It's a big piece of ice floating in the ocean. This is so ridiculous.

Everybody's screaming it out there in radio land and Facebook land and YouTube land. But, you know, it's beneath the surface. It's above the surface. Why can I not think of this thing? Are you drawing a blank, too? I feel so much better if you're drawing a blank right now. Yeah, let's just draw a blank.

Yeah, we've got to try to figure out what's really happening here. Some of it's just American stuff. Iceberg.

Americans like to be independent. See, it just came to my head, Jeff. It's an iceberg. So I'm describing an iceberg where the world is pumping this operating system into our kids that's secular and anti-God for the most part. And then we're going to church and doing all the good things. That's what you see above the surface, which is why, and you know this, when so many of our students grown up in our houses and Christian homes go off to college, they come back something different than what you expected.

That's what I'm warning everybody about. And the truth is essential, especially in America, where we value our individualism. Yeah. Well, we value individualism. We want to be able to make our own decisions. We want to have a sense of purpose. And so it's pretty natural if you're drawing the lines in a certain way to say, well, therefore, truth is up to the individual.

It's up to me. But, you know, to use the iceberg analogy, you know, eight ninths of an iceberg is below the surface of the water. What you just see on the surface carries with it implications that, you know, can wreck everything else. And so that's what we have to be thinking about is, well, OK, fine, if truth is up to the individual, you know, that does help give your life a little more sense of purpose.

Maybe it gives you a sense that you're independent, that, you know, you're an American, nobody else can tell you what to do kind of thing. But it's sort of like trying to ground yourself if there is no ground, like you're floating in space. But if you are the center of your reality, but you don't know where you are, then it is not possible for you to ever be oriented and found. And we think about this a lot in Colorado. I mean, two blocks away from where I'm sitting right now in our headquarters, Pike National Forest. People get lost in Pike National Forest. People have died because they have been lost in Pike National Forest.

You think it's going to be easy. Oh, so this mountain here, that mountain there, it's easy to find my way. But then you get out there and realize, wait a second, this trail sort of looks like this trail. And with that rock that I saw earlier, if you don't have a compass and a map, you can get profoundly lost. But even people who have a compass can still be profoundly lost. You know, imagine somebody out there with a compass saying, well, I know how to use a compass just to make sure the red needle always points toward you as you're walking.

You're sure to be lost. That's right. And the one thing about this that I want to keep stressing to everybody was, OK, well, you know, we get it, we understand we're in the family of faith. I get it. I've got my allegiance to truth. I understand truth. I know it's got an author.

I know it exists. But the rest of the world. Oh, well, then you go through one chapter after another, Jeff, of telling stories of incredible Christians that because they knew the truth and then implemented God's truth, started to change the way the entire world works. Whether we're looking at charity or medicine, societal and mental well-being, education, architecture, literature, art, politics, justice, work. And you sit there and go, well, everybody should be saying, well, that sounds a lot like Western civilization.

OK, you're on the right track. But this is a big issue for us that that why do we want to speak the truth in the world? Why should we learn how to do that in a gracious way? Because God's truth benefits everybody. And he started that those chapters with a story about Kerry Nation, which I'm sure most people probably don't know.

Just tell us a little bit about Kerry Nation and then kind of speak generally how this the truth of God affects all of society. Yeah, just a little bit of big picture first. When I got to the end of this book and sent it off to the publisher, I asked myself, you know, what did I really learn from that? And I learned that these individuals who changed the world were quirky. Some of them were they were quite odd. Some of them were really nerdy. Some of them had some good views on things and some weird views on other things. But they all they just did what they did. They just said, you know, how can I be the very best scientist I can be if Jesus really is the truth?

How can I be the very best artist I can be if Jesus is the truth? Well, one of the one of the quirkier ones I covered in the book is on the chapter of how Jesus followers changed how we care for one another. Very few people realize that we have medicine and health care today because of early Christians who thought because we believe that humans bear the image of God, everybody has the right to health care. Now, other people had the right to health care before, but not everybody, not poor people, not not people who, you know, didn't who weren't kings or queens. So anyway, all the way the United States in the eighteen hundreds, this lady named Carrie Nation, she was concerned about alcoholism and people today are concerned about alcoholism. But it was a bigger deal then, believe it or not, in the eighteen hundreds, the average American drink five gallons of liquor every year. So assuming that some people didn't drink at all and that women and children drank less, which may not be a good assumption, but let's just go with it. That means the typical man in America in the eighteen hundreds was drinking enough to be drunk every single day.

Wow. And the country was being killed. Life expectancy for those who had survived to age 10 dropped from 57 to 48 years of age.

This is in the United States in the eighteen hundreds. So this lady, Carrie Nation, her first husband, had died from alcoholism. She said enough of this. And she just started marching into bars with a hatchet and just attacking their barrels of alcohol. Well, obviously, she got arrested for this more than 30 times and she paid for her fines by selling souvenir hatchets.

It's a crazy story. She did all of this because she loved Jesus and she loved her family. She didn't want her kids to end up, you know, like so many people were. Now, of course, she was she was famous, infamous, really.

Very few people today think well of Carrie Nation. And what came out of that was was a constitutional amendment to ban alcohol. And that was in place and was in the Constitution for 13 years.

And it's widely considered to be a disaster. But think about what you put yourself in her situation. If you were a woman in the eighteen hundreds and you were married, you didn't have the right to own property. You didn't have the right to vote.

If your husband was irresponsible, you had no recourse. So Carrie Nation standing against alcohol was also involved in in promoting women's rights. And now we have a very different system today, but it hasn't always been that way. It was an innovation that came about, you know, the founders said everyone's created equal and people know. OK, well, apparently to them, that didn't mean women and it didn't mean people who had been enslaved. But over time, because it's a self-correcting system, they were able to move toward the truth. But it didn't happen automatically, Steve.

And that's the point I really would like to get to. It happened because weird people, quirky, odd people like Carrie Nation said enough of this. I'm going to stand up.

I'm going to stand up for myself and for all women and for their children. This country is drunk and it needs to sober up. And, you know, the church has played a role in this ever since. There are one hundred and thirty thousand church related alcohol recovery programs in the United States of America.

One hundred and thirty thousand. Yeah, and that's the amazing thing. Again, you sit there and go, why? One of my ethics professors at Southeastern Baptist here in the area, when he was talking about the gospel, he's like, you know, the gospel is a moral solution to a moral problem. And so when we live in a society where we stop speaking truth and we stop engaging people and trying to get out there like Carrie Nation did to try to understand the truth, speak the truth and implement the truth. Then in a culture like ours, Jeff, we see this, that the culture becomes more and more immoral and the notion of morality starts to go away.

And so if you're not an immoral person and we're all good, who needs a savior? And I remember the day he said that and I was like, wow. So me speaking truth into the culture for their own good also helps in terms of the gospel effort. And yep, that's exactly right. That's why truth is so important.

Truth changes everything. We're talking to Dr. Jeff Myers. Jeff, I'm going to put you on hold. We'll pick it up there when we come back. Plus, I want you to learn more about Summit Ministries and how it can affect the young people.

Welcome back. It's Steve Noble, The Steve Noble Show, working through a book that's coming your way. It's going to be available October 18th, but you can preorder it now. The name of the book is Truth Changes Everything. How people of faith can transform the world in times of crisis. This is by Dr. Jeff Myers, who's the president of Summit Ministries, which I want to talk about more before we finish up today.

Summit.org. But want to stay on track with our conversation about this incredible book, which is very inspiring, very convicting. And I think one of the parts of the population in the country, Jeff, that needs to be reassured and needs to continue to study the truth is the church itself. I think you probably know Del Tackett, who did the Truth Project, and he asked a profound question. Do you believe that what you say you believe is really real? And that's a challenge for a lot of Christians that we need to have our own faith shored up before we go out and start talking to other people. So the truth matters to believers as well as it does to the outside world in terms of people getting the book, Jeff, and reading it. And again, I know how busy you are. So thank you so much for spending the hour with us.

What's kind of your your main hope and your prayer and your desire for people, Christians, to get out of truth changes everything when they when they read it? Well, Steve, let me tell you a little of my story, how I even came to write it. Last year, I was diagnosed with cancer. And the doctor was encouraging that if we treat this aggressively, we have a good chance of beating it. But the treatments were so extremely aggressive that I could do very little except read and write. And during that time, not knowing if I would survive, I began asking the question, what would I write if it might be the last thing I ever get to write?

Wow. You may have thought about that before. You know, what's the last who's you know, who are the people you'd want to call if you think you're not going to make it? What advice would you give to people if you thought this could be the last thing you could say? So I was literally in that position writing this book.

And I'm thankful to say that I'm now several months in remission from cancer. But it the the message came across like this, this issue of truth, we have got to get this right. Because first of all, if we don't believe there is such a thing as truth, we'll never want to seek it.

And then we'll miss out on what God has for us the best of life. And the second thing is, you literally cannot run a nation or a society if you don't have truth. The great historian Will Durant, he was talking about the fall of Rome, said a nation is never destroyed from without until it has destroyed itself from within. And in many aspects of an American, of our American society, we are moving towards self-destruction as fast as we can possibly go. We've got to turn that around.

Yeah, that's exactly right. And again, that's our that's our basis for calling for cultural engagement, not just to glorify God, which is just chief amongst everything is to glorify that that created us. He that created us and saved us, died for us, offered us that free gift of salvation. But to care that much about our fellow man and to understand from a Christian perspective as we look at the country.

And Jeff, you mentioned this earlier. I think oftentimes we think the solution is who has the White House, who has Congress, it's red or it's blue, but it's actually Jesus. It always has been.

It always will be. And that's why I'd like to see more of a neighborly zeal for the good of our neighbors from a Christian truth perspective, as opposed to thinking primarily politics. Politics is part of it because that's an engagement mechanism that is one of the onramps to society. But I think oftentimes we think in terms of political power instead of human flourishing and what's in the best interests of our neighbor.

Well, Steve, I know we can talk about politics all day, but let me just say this. If we went over to science for a minute, we could see it maybe a little bit a little bit more clearly. So somebody might say, well, so is the takeaway from your book that Christians are awesome, that Christians have done all these great things, and shouldn't you be grateful? No, that's actually not the point. The point is why Christians did the things that they did in history. So in science, for instance, the whole idea of modern science started out because a few people said, you know what? If the world is created rather than simply random, that means we can understand it.

The information is meaningful information, not just noise. If the world is really stable in the way we understand it, then we can do an experiment at time A and an experiment at time B and compare them, because we're actually in the same world. The Greek philosophers didn't believe that. There was nothing in Eastern thought that would have ever led you to those conclusions. And there are several more that came about because people started with assumptions about the world that are based in the Bible. And as a result, they developed modern science.

Check this out. Of the 52 individuals who were responsible for the development of modern science, only one of them was an atheist. And even today, two thirds of the people who have ever won the Nobel Prize in science, this Christian is their affiliation. So it's not just like it's something that happened a long, long time ago that we've now overcome.

It's actually real. And here now, the opportunity for us is unbelievable. Not to just say, well, you know, people who believe what I believe did awesome things. So there it's more now because of what they believed they were able to change the world in times of crisis.

Do we ever need that right now? Oh, my goodness. And it's such a great point. That's such a great chapter in the book on science. Chapter eight, which talks about science is one of God's two books. And people go, oh, hold on a second. OK, just think of general revelation, special revelation. Go read the book and you'll understand it. It really is such an awesome and inspiring thing.

But that's why when we go into these areas, there's really other than something that's flagrantly sinful. Our son lives in San Francisco now. He's getting married in March. He's our oldest. He's in the he's in the computer gaming industry. He's a game artist. And people like, wow, not he's going to video games and he's living in San Francisco.

Oh, my goodness. What a problem for a Christian. I'm like, no, you sound like Jonah.

You don't want to go to Nineveh because you don't like those people. And you don't think they you don't think the gaming industry needs some influence from Christians who actually know what beauty is and functionality. I mean, we should be into everything for the most part, shouldn't we? I think that makes perfect sense.

Yeah, I love that. Well, you know, obviously the students I'm working with are involved in gaming a lot. They're involved in all kinds of things. But the truth is, if a biblical worldview is true, then it should apply to everything everywhere all the time.

So it's up to us to try to figure out what that is. Yeah, it's such a great point. Truth Changes Everything. How people of faith can transform the world in times of crisis. By our guest today, Dr. Jeff Myers at Summit Ministries. And I've got the links up. I would prefer and would ask you to go to summit dot org to preorder the book. Jeff Bezos is fine.

OK, leave him alone. Just go to summit. Go directly to the summit dot org website and and preorder your your copy of The Truth Changes Everything. I would especially encourage you and challenge you to get this for the younger people in your life. Sons and daughters, grandsons and granddaughters. But while you're there, I want you to check out the student conferences. Jeff, one of our goals with our youngest. She's 17. She'll be 18. She's a senior in high school is to go to one of the summer sessions this coming summer after the school year, either in Colorado or Georgia. Let everybody know about that. This is one of the most incredible opportunities you can give to your son or daughter or grandson or granddaughter to shore up their biblical worldview and teach them how to engage.

Tell us about the sessions. Well, in two weeks, the student is going to understand what a biblical worldview is. They'll understand some things about the counterfeit worldviews.

I call them counterfeits because just like a counterfeit watch, they have things that make them look real, but they're all stolen or borrowed. But those worldviews are significant. Secular worldview, Marxist worldview, postmodernism and so forth. So we help the students not only understand the basis of the biblical worldview. Why do we say the Bible's true? Why do we think that the Bible's teaching about God's nature and character is actually true? How do we know this is scientifically true as well as philosophically true? And what are these other counterfeit worldviews that are going to challenge us?

And then what does a biblical worldview look like in everything from life to marriage to relationships, sexual ethics, economics, all those different things? So students have all of that instruction during two weeks, plus dialogue, plus small group time, plus all the fun stuff you do in Colorado, like zip lines, wet water rafting and things like that. So it's a very busy two week session. But students are telling us that is the most transformative two weeks of my life. Oh, man.

Yeah, I've heard that time and time again. And how long has Summit been doing these? Steve, this is our 60th anniversary, so we will be having a gala here in Colorado Springs at the end of October. And some of the Summit graduates who will be there are in their 70s. So this is one of the you know, it's not like a fly by fly by night program. Right.

Where does that thing go? They got a big start and then they just disappeared. Now, this is one of the most stable programs out there. All the leaders you know of, Josh McDowell, Dr. James Dobson and others have all sent their children through the Summit Industries program. People who run companies, now our graduates are military leaders, political leaders, you know, they're best selling authors. They're doing all of these kinds of things to have a positive influence on culture.

And we just want to make sure we secure that for the next generation as well. Yeah, it's such an incredible opportunity at Summit.org. Last question, Jeff. And just let me just say, praise the Lord for your remission. My wife and I were watching that story on Facebook as you would share things and praying for you and just praise the Lord for what he's done in your life.

And not the least of which is this book, but just your general health overall. But being the president of Summit Ministries, last question, what's your favorite thing about what God has allowed you to do? Oh, gosh, it's being with students. I have to admit that when I first came to be the president of Summit Ministries, I thought, why would I want to be around these 16 to 22 year olds all the time? You know, I was a professor and I loved being a professor, but man, I wanted to go home at the end of the day. I didn't want to be around them 24 hours a day.

Now I realize they are the rising generation and they're amazing. Amen. Such a great answer. Dr. Jeff Myers, president of Summit Ministries.

Truth changes everything. Go to Summit.org. I've got the links up and you can check that out. I'll reach out to you personally about getting our daughter out there. That would be a huge blessing. And just thank you again for your time. Thank you for your ministry. Thank you for your obedience to what the Lord has called you to do. It's such a blessing to know you and call your friend and brother. Thank you, my buddy.

All right, pal, we'll talk again later. That was Dr. Jeff Myers. The truth changes everything. How people of faith can transform the world in times of crisis. It's just brilliant and winsome. It's such a great combination. That's something we all need to work on, being good handlers of the truth and winsome at the same time. This is Steve Noble on The Steve Noble Show. God willing, I'll talk to you again real soon. Like my dad always used to say, never forward.