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Dealing with Shame

The Steve Noble Show / Steve Noble
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August 4, 2022 6:41 pm

Dealing with Shame

The Steve Noble Show / Steve Noble

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August 4, 2022 6:41 pm

Dealing with Shame

Steve talks to Dr. Bruce Meyer to discuss shame and how you should deal with your sin. Jesus took our shame and guilt on the cross.

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The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network mobile show where biblical unity meets the everyday issues of why your home, at work, even in politics. Steve is an ordinary man who believes in an extraordinary God it on a show, there's plenty of grace and lots of three no sacred cows call Steve Bell 86 34 true 866-34-TRUTH or checking out online, Steve Noble Joe.com now is your host will maybe heard these little.

Maybe you've said these words to somebody. Maybe that I'm to your son or daughter. Perhaps house or a friend. Then when I say these words, it will probably have a reaction in your mind and your heart in your spirit, and can remember the last time somebody said, shame on you, or perhaps you should be ashamed of yourself right.

Shame is a powerful feeling of powerful emotion. A good good question as well. If you're doing something wrong if you're sending them you know it shouldn't you feel ashamed or is there something about that that perhaps you're putting yourself under the law. Once again, and I'm I know at times I've dealt with shame, but most the time when I have. I felt like I deserved it. You know I got royally messed up.

I did it on purpose or what have you. And then it kind of blows up in your face and you feel terrible guilt and shame. By the way, what's the difference between those two things, guilt and shame.

So today on theology Thursday working to unpack this issue of overcoming shame and Southwest Airlines. This is in the blog post today. These are always wonderful. I link to it already on Facebook live and on my regular Facebook pages before the show and live this blog post today, written by our guest, Dr. Bruce Meyer, and how to overcome shame so that was everything guilt and shame. Do we really understand what's going on here, but at the beginning of this blog post, which is excellent. Several years ago, Southwest Airlines ran an ad campaign that showed various people doing dumb things.

The ad tagline was want to get away. That's appropriate. We've all experienced the desire to hide under the nearest rock because of something dumb. We said or did. This problem is what we call shame, and not surprisingly, the Bible addresses shame. Both the cause and the solution were gonna unpack this today and kind of three movements were to talk about shame, exposed, and then shame expanded as we look at a couple ways in the Scriptures that it deals with it and then ultimately shame erased and I've got the questions about this one, and so were going to have a great conversation today and appreciate appreciate as certainly, Dr. Bruce Meyer being back with us from BJ's seminary. Bruce, thanks for calling him great to have you on how was your summer vacation going great, thank you for having me appreciate your very welcome. This is a really powerful topic and how did this one get on your your radar screen.

Bruce I know you mentioned at the beginning of the blog post, Ed Welch, who wrote a book called shame interrupted and I think this is this is sure you heard me, introit controlling the show. I think this is a subject that maybe our definitions are quite clear and we struggle with whether we should feel shame a little bit a lot or never. But how did it come to get on your radar screen to write about it.

Often because of what has been done as I do a lot of counseling of those who been assaulted or abused in some way.

Shame is always transferred to them rather than the person who did the user fall again so they came and they bear so strongly that they have a hard time even talking about what was done, something I constantly deal with yeah and I think it's probably a pretty common experience for most of us on one level or another.

Whether you're in a counseling situation or something where there's obviously some heinous thing that's happened.

But whether it's lying or just up the trail.

Whatever the case may be.

I think a lot of us deal with shame, probably Bruce on a regular basis and I think you'll deal with you and train you at what we can explain it, but I think the world is trying to find solutions for their guilt and their pain.

Don't know what to do with what often leads. What we typically will call mental disorders are struggling with because they just don't know what to so guilt is that we have done something wrong. Shame goes beyond that though who are here for.

It might be, and it is more than just I've done something wrong. I worked I'm traction you can tell in the blank many kind words there that a lot will use spell and I'm convinced it's what's driving much of our world trying to find solutions for what they feel is wrong with I don't like the fact that I like gender that I am like the way I don't like whatever and so they are driven to find some kind of solution that when that really isn't what's wrong with the guilt and the shame that I fear that guilt is wrong with you and instead of running to God with that they run from God and try to find their own solutions for the see how you can really trace it back to Romans one and everybody knows that God exists and he says it right there is made a plane so that men are without excuse.

And so you don't like that but you realize because I'm amazed that same operating system because were made in his image that you're going to deal with guilt and shame. And so you suppress the truth does not want to go to God like you were talking about Bruce and then you replace it with something else that a good friend of mine that's become probably a prolific speaker for the last 10 or 15 years in the transgender conversation is a gentleman named Walt higher. He's in his early 80s now and he went through all kinds of crazy things starting at about the age of four, and it literally when he started going down the transgender road is because when he dressed up like a little girl. It started it.

He was able to become somebody that allowed him to escape what happened to his real self, so he becomes this other person as a way to try to deal with guilt and shame and on sadly and unfortunately of course we know ultimately it does material clap you think that that's true for everybody but I think a lot of you are struggling because they don't like who they are trying to find that will assuage those feelings and traits that shame away when that really won't change anything outward and work in that you such a great point were coming up on the first break your brew some of the projects on hold in just a second, but you get a good reminder for everybody want to talk about guilt. It's a sensitive, done something wrong in it for me as a believer. Advent of the Holy Spirit here to convict me of my sin.

That's a helpful thing.

Shame then turns to really bruise the definition of who you are who I am. I'm I'm scum. I'm worthless like you call yourself a Christian, you're a joke you're a an imposter. That's a great language for the devil. How do we deal guilt. How do we deal with shame. That's the topic today on theology Thursday prism to put on hold.

Talking to Dr. Bruce Meyer.

He does do a lot of counseling as a professor BJ's seminary. We've a lot of ground to cover on a very important topic dealing with shame, overcoming the shame that maybe you're struggling with right now. This is Steve Noble back is noble to Steve Noble show it is theology Thursday with her friends at seminary with Dr. Meyer today working our way through the blog post. He was kind enough share. I got the links up for that. Overcoming shame that's a very difficult subject to deal with guilt. That's the sense that you that you done something wrong. That's a good thing. The conscience the Holy Spirit we get into that and then shame is really more about who you are. My friend Steve on Facebook live said guilt is all about what I've done. I've done bad versus shame, which is about who you are.

I am that something about that for a second. I've done bad versus I am bad when it comes to the definition business.

That's full on crazy town now in the in the world right so we have transgender and we got some people that are trans-species.

They identify the cat that identifies a snake that identifies a Dragon you have trans racial yes some issues going on there and people redefining here and there, trying to find a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and of course Satan if you're a believer. He wants to mess with your definition are not your definition.

But God's definition of you so dealing with shame.

Overcoming shame which it seems like just about everybody on Facebook live that I asked that question.

This is a very helpful topic. We'll have to cut ourselves open and throw everything out on the table to explain why, but I think we all understand that we can struggle with shame and in how do you view yourself. How does Satan view you.

How does the world do you versus how does God view you, especially if you're in Christ again Dr. Bruce Meyer, I think so much my friend for bringing this to us today. It's really a great topic and some of my creditors yet, so let's start with this one. Shame expose you start in a very interesting place all the way back in Genesis what kind of a passing comment of Moses about the first couple's nakedness, because before their walk around naked for a good chunk of that story. Early on, there's no problem.

Then the next thing you know, shame becomes an issue so white why we start there well where it began. And they come in. Thinking about clothing what it is showing that there was open. There was no shame.

And when you move into chapter 3. Then once they get there now hiding from the very person who created them from God and he's looking for them and he knows where they are just wants them to identify health but they now know that they are naked and they feel exposed, the network what training I feel like all eyes are on the and nothing is covering my shame. Everybody is very much aware of my flaws worked of every problem that I have and I feel naked and exposed before them and so that's that. The nakedness that they felt and when they ran from God it wasn't mailed it.

There wanting some kind of solution. They're just wanting God turn them, which is the very solution for their nakedness. God was the one who had that solution and he actually provide for them coats of skin that he provide and it is now introducing this idea of the Duchenne area, which will pave the way then for us to have fellowship with God in which paved the way for our shame to be expunged yet, which is such a powerful point that's going keep popping up as we as we work through the state.

So what would I be going too far Bruce to say then that guilt is a good and helpful thing don't actually turn which would be the Savior I but often times in our guilt we look for man-made solutions current guilt and the resultant shame and I think you start to see that with Abel and Cain came provision of his own means of I you see it with the Tower of Babel in the people are trying to build a tower to God will will build a name for herself. They're trying to overcome their own chain their own reputation there trying to make and from there on his constant trying to find a solution for his own guilt and shame rather than running to God, the very one solution for our guilt and shame through Jesus death as we will be as we move our way through this theology so so just make sure we're all on the same page. Then we can say if you believe your for in Christ you been born again guilt is a good thing that comes through knowing the word and the Holy Spirit will convict us of our sin, and so guilt and your conscience as well, but in shame for a believer is never a good thing and so if you're feeling ashamed. We can then again again percent that's all about how you define yourself you mentioned it earlier I got a jump in there. I'm a dirt bag on the scumbag I'm not worth anything am a worthless piece of trash all they can to stop in for a believer, especially shame should never be something that we bring onto ourselves.

Is it debilitating pain as a mechanism to move me closer to the Lord can be a useful tool but most of the time.

That's not where you mentioned the user one who can and frankly our own hearts are the biggest problem with temptation, but once we expand and he turned around and when you use that same language you call yourself a Christian, I don't know any Christian who would do that well that came down in a move away from Jesus, rather than toward. I think that's where it becomes debilitating and I don't think it's a good mechanism even for creating good behavior because good behavior really comes from a changed heart that only can come through the Savior. Yeah. And I think that's one of the things you not have always struggled with this and when I think about heaven and all that the Lord has in store for us. Bruce on like this. I don't deserve a lick of any of it and to know that I'm fully known all my guilt everything I've ever done wrong. The things I plotted whatever the whole lawn long laundry list of my life to be fully known and fully loved is mind-boggling to me that that that God's love and mercy is so strong and that's where I think to get into that how we see ourselves.

Sometimes it's hard to go to God sees me through the blood of Christ and through the covering of what he did for me.

That's how he sees me versus how I see myself because of my sin. I think that's a struggle for a lot of us, or maybe it's maybe it's just me know. I think you're right it is to feed off of what we are identity and that's why when you move through the Scriptures, God keeps moving away from what we do great because great is what is the answer to guilt and shame. And that's where you start to see that even if you move through the Old Testament I mentioned in my post that Leviticus broadens pain to include not just what what I but people do or what happened. For instance in the book of Leviticus. You can have illness and all kinds of unclean issues that happen to that separate us from God's people and the Jewish economy and so God even there was teaching them. There are things outside of your control that will bring shame to you as you move into the prophet, the profits will identify one of the leading causes of pain five for at least is this idea of idolatry you worship God with your mandate mechanisms to try to deliver me from my shame and because all that I like my guilt by chain working on and so than even in the prophet Isaiah 54, beginning with chapter 53 by the legs are trained to come before God designed your yeah yeah That's a great point and in working out spend a lot of time there because that's the ultimate answer free racing machine that you might be struggling with. This is Steve Noble Dr. Bruce Meyer theology. Thursday will be right back. Noble theology Thursday with our friends at PG seminary.Meyer with this up-to-date mark working our way through this issue of shame and how do you deal with shame and overcoming shame versus guilt. Guilt is that just the understanding done something wrong. Shame goes a whole lot deeper. I shame gets out the spotlight and begins to define who you are is my buddy Steve on Facebook.

Life said guilt is I've done bad person.

Shame.

I am bad and that's where that the devil loves to play. We know in Romans that says there is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. So you got conviction which is the one of the language is the what one of the ways that the Holy Spirit speaks use conviction condemnation is of the devil himself, you're a piece of garbage you're worthless you caused your parents divorce you caused this problem, look at what you've done your worthless person I can. You think you're Christian that's a joke now what you are is a liar and a cheat and an imposter. And so when you are feeling like that you look in the mirror and you're like that like I'm worthless that's shame and that's exactly what the devil wants you to think.

But if you're a believer if you're a follower of Jesus Christ that changes that conversation and that's why it's so important to understand this, and again Bruce thanks so much for being with us today wanted a back up just a little bit because you started on pack. Isaiah 53 and 54 and want to make sure we can take our time going to the South go back to that were dealing with shame erased Vegas and Isaiah and I want to make sure everybody's going to really following through and listening well what you're saying here really got the largest of the old equipment file would offer on the crop and the work trained peer there but we do know that the the idea of crucifixion was a shame what is designed to bring disgrace upon the family and especially upon the criminal and it was a shame to be placed on the cross and follow me before that that guilt for us before or the shame, we learn that especially Hebrews chapter 12 verse first two especially talked about him despising the shame, the ideas, there is looked down his nose at the shame that he was for our guilt or our need for so that we won We can now be part guilt and shame is rolled off the lot on him when we trust Jesus as our Savior. In chapter 54 coming on the keel that passage and 53 where Isaiah describes the servant Jesus to the file he talks God talking to Israel coming out of exile and the that they have experienced now because of their spin put them into exile and in verse four God for you will not be confounded for you now will not be this great you'll feel the words here that we would associate with shame. For you will get your you and the reproach of your window you will remember no more. So there's relational change here widowhood idea they've been put into this position where they block their spell notice verse five for your maker God the Creator is your husband calling them back in your relationship with himself, the Lord of hosts. There's power in that kind of the term Lord of the Army is his name, the holy one of Israel. Another word is your Redeemer, the God of the whole earth is call for the Lord hath called you like a wife deserted and grieved in spirit, and you can call himself the Redeemer and the Lord Yahweh is the term that is used here in verse eight. All these terms that are so strong that call us to relationship with him. Verse 10 the mountains made a part guilt may be removed, but my steadfast love shall not depart from you call these folks who were in exile because of their idolatry because their spin is calling them back in the relationship with himself and he is the one who provides that relationship for them. We thought in chapter 3 is a great passage such an amazing passage and I was sitting here braces were walking through this.

That's a good Isaiah 54 which is just so powerfully 353 54 should lead right off the page at you but it just reminds me how many times and I'm sure I've done this myself only talk about the gospel and the need to be reconciled to God will what I think most of us will remember hate you know you're guilty. You gotta be to get a deal with your guilt, but I don't.

I don't know how often when I hear people explaining the gospel that the word shame shows up, but here I mean it's plain as day. When you're reading it, but I often times I think we that gets left out of the gospel conversation. It seems as you were unpacking that incident on I think we can leave that word out. Often I think you're right on deal with people.

What I do with this horrible I am long and a lot of the new deal with those kind of issues. Ephesians chapter 1 read through all the way down to verse 14.

One long haul writing in Greek originally all talking about are in Christ, if you're struggling with your identity I would go right that passage and see who I am, through the redemption that God has provided through Christ and deal bear with the father deals with time, and he deals with the Holy Spirit and our whole new identity that we have a father the son and Holy Spirit wonderful passage is that someone go ahead, there's another love we have time I would love to go to Luke chapter 8 the woman had an issue of blood for 12 years.

If we could go to that because it where guilt and shame mentioned in the written all over between the lines.

If you want to read between the lines because she's afraid even approached Jesus and she approaches him secretly and thinks I can just touch the hem of his garment. I'll be deal for 12 years after her from the community for 12 years.and she's healed and she can almost picture her giving away gleefully and she thinks I'm healed in Jesus or I could touch me and he now wants her to identify herself and the story you be thinking when you going to change her now and he called her to stop here because I was bleeding and I wanted to be healed.

And the word he uses for her wonderful language where he simply said daughter which he never uses that term is a term that he at least that is recorded for us in the gospel but it's a relational term daughter, your faith has made you well. Go in peace, and he's calling her now to go feeling that she experienced the she's calling her now to.

The cleansing of guilt and shame that she felt even through this. Calling her back in the community.

Wonderful tax just such a wonderful tax and especially when you put it in context back that in your understanding what a woman's place or isn't in the Jewish culture in the first century that that okay woman like a dog but he goes from her identity of herself, which is I'm ashamed I've got this problem of blood sunlight permanently outside the camp because I'm Jewish law, then he's like know not what woman not dog not slave not worthless daughter at such a powerful elevation of identity from Christ himself is just mind-boggling to me. And here is what made you whole calling her to even stronger now than just being everything she felt. Now the reproach that the file is come through this hemorrhage will wipe away now, and she has a new relationship with him because of her and as a result, as she's walking away from that life-changing experience that last part.

In verse 4089. He said her daughter, your faith has made you well. Go in peace, and that's that peace that should is available to all of us, Bruce. You know this, I noticed that you will hate not.

Not just might. My shame is been dealt with in this moment. I still don't know you. You walk the rest of your life out free of that in peace, that shame is gone and you go in peace. Now you can leave that behind Roman about the redemption that we have in Christ.

Now with the father lose you mentioned before in chapter 8. There is no condemnation. I made whole anyway that the penalty is being removed all the huge standing before God, and that's why in Hebrews chapter 12 actually the whole book of Hebrews I call boldly is present for the high priestly function capric well I am now the founder of my fate because he defeated the right hand of God like I can stand with this boldness and assurance talk because his work.

Yeah so so powerful bristly come back the last segment. I really like to just focus on just practical things for people that are really struggling with shame and how they see themselves to some practical things that they can work through even this afternoon or this evening to help him deal with Adam to put on hold.

Talking to Dr. Bruce Meyer from BJ's seminary. Such a powerful topic will be right back to me take you back in time and never to jump back into theology Thursday promises that something with it a little.

The little engine that could write the little engine that could member that one in a great book around forever along tray must be pulled over a high mountain after his locomotive breaks down large locomotives treated eczema for metaphorically are asked to pull the training for various reasons he refused and so the little guy can't do it, but then you know is told and told so many times you can't do you get what he was. He said I think I can. I think I can. I think I can and off he goes. And I think I can. I think I can and you could just hear the train chugging, chugging and chugging.

I think I can.

I think I can. And the reason I'm bringing that simple illustration up is because as we unpack here in the in the last segment of the show Dr. Bruce Meyer unpacking kind of the practical just if you're struggling with shame if you're sincere and you should feel guilt because you've done something bad. But shame tells you you are bad if you're in Christ.

That is a lie. Okay. And so that's a lie from the pit of hell and smells like smoke. To quote another friend of mine and so sometimes we do have to go back to like Bruce what you were doing what we go through these different aspects of the Scriptures, whether in Isaiah 5354 or Leviticus Ali back to the garden we come in of the New Testament and you have to kind of remind yourself of what God has said to be true in his word and that's why I reference the little engine that could. That sometimes like know I've been washed. I've been cleansed I've been gone except that I'm a co-area clinic preach the gospel to yourself over and over again. So here in the last segment of the show. Bruce just help us not as an ex as a great and godly and caring counselor that you are put that On just practical things for people really struggling with shame and they they understand the following along with the theology they like you. But how do I escape this this cell of shame that I'm living it would preach yourself because in our own our own heart. Many lies and that's what they did in the garden, you will not surely die, and got really concerned about you are holding out on you. You know the minute you eat this you will become like you to call into question God's character, the very start with as well. I think number one with we need to remember is when I our tendency is to run than run to and in fact is my my maturity is not cured by how well I have to run to him one my maturity as measured by how quickly I run in and he is he is the one John chapter 1 verse seven it is his blood that continues to cleanse us from all unrighteousness book. I run to him and in confession, verse nine, first John chapter 1II can find out.

I'm going cleansing and I left. 34 verse five. For this reason because promise to reminded us this was about David when he changed his behavior be before like crazy and I'm sure that the painful experience for him in the first five.

He reminded those who are repeating in their faces shall never be gained. And there's the key. We run to him for cleansing rather than running away from the second point is when money has experienced shameful behavior towards themselves whether a sexual abuse for all all questioned their identity.

Whether it's male or female in Ohio. If I were male and one that benefits all work email. I wanted, what happened what caused that happened to me is the other individual sinful behavior.

Their sinful heart and the problem with me isn't the fact that I male or female. The problem is that I have been assaulted. I've been I've been ashamed because of the was done to the run for Jesus, or even the reaffirmation of life and truthfully in Christ and if I'm not in Christ and that step one.

I've got a come to faith in Christ as my problem is that was done to me. My problem is that I can fit toward you and I think that that's one of the exercises that we all should probably engage in on a more regular basis and I struggle with that. I mentioned it before, Bruce. I struggle with and myself is God's definition of me how he sees me versus how I see myself in that moment, you have to choose to choose what God is said about me or add to choose what I'm to define myself by what he said about what my sins says that I'm not I'm not I'm not minimizing my sin. And Jesus said if you let Mielke obey my commandments, and is a big deal. But again we have to choose whose definition but I think sometimes we have a hard time believing that God actually sees us that way right after three verse one John wrote these words that I think are old and we can't overlook that word like what he's really saying.

Take a good hard look and behold what manner of love the father that we should be called of God, and that's that reminder that because of the kind being that he's talked about back in chapter 1, I can before him as a child of God, and I can run to her regular and he expect me and received me, not because of what I've done, but because of the work that Jesus has done on the cross for me, the whole gospel story that we understand to the blessedness of being in Christ only accepted I'm redeemed. I'm a child of God here with Christ. Many of those terms but he was struggling with that they could work their way to the Scriptures and just work the various painful things to Scriptures, we are in Jesus because of his finished work on greatest yeah because I think that the reminder at least for me, and I think for most people. Bruce is that you know God, you know that covering of Christ and some people talk about you know God looks at you and is like.

Jesus wraps his arm around you and all all God can see is Christ we we don't we don't go to that we go to the mirror and all we see is ourselves as opposed to seeing ourselves in Christ because I think sometimes we struggle to understand that you know we see through the glass dimly, as the Scriptures tells us, but this is something I think we are okay.

Somebody help me with this because I think a lot of people really struggle with preaching that we have to do I looking at her New Testament that God assigned to children redeemed. We are in full we are healed with the spirit we are joint heirs with Christ, we are the we are holy priesthood. Those are all terms that magnify who we are in Christ opposed to what we used to be before we came to Christ that that's a great exercise for somebody yet really is and that's where all will turn it back over to the little engine that could again and you just have to kinda go back there and go through that. What did God say about me and not forget what Satan is saying about you forget what you're saying about yourself. You need to go back to what God says about you and that such a great great great exercise for all of us to get everybody. This is were just working off of this.

A blog post that Bruce was kind enough to share today how to overcome shame. I've got the links up there. But if you're listening on the radio.

All you have to do is go to the regular page that our friends@bgyousetupseminary.bg you.edu backs\radio and that's will take you to every blog post that's written every week that we use as the basis of a conversation seminary.BJ you.edu\radio Bruce again, thank you so much for a teaching us and leading us today is really really important conversation. I hope you enjoy the little bit that remains of your summer break, and we look forward to having you back on again. Great joy and a pleasure to be with you.

Very important for what amen praise the Lord. Thank you brother will talk to again real soon. Thanks so much and I was Dr. Bruce Meyer and any you can see as a counselor that you know where you can go train a lot of different ways, but ultimately are going to go to the ultimate source of power, which is the Scripture itself and that's like with a little engine that could.

And you have to go like you yesterday, but yesterday but yet Dr. Mark but but but you why I struggle with this in my whole life that's done, still struggling this walk with the Lord for 30 years and I still struggle with this or that or the other thing, whatever it I don't know any Christian because of the way we lived our lives in the past. Even the way that we live our lives now in the present that doesn't struggle with something. I mean that. That's Paul. Paul V Paul I mean you didn't write this right after he became a believer to get his vision back. I do what I shouldn't do and I don't do what I should do, who will save me from this wretched body of death.

He calls himself the chief of all sinners. I think just by reading his own words inspired by the Holy Spirit. So it's only in their because that's exactly what God wanted him to write is an acknowledgment that this struggle in this world you have trouble that tribulation and things coming at you and sometimes the tribulation we face is of our own design of our own weakness of our own failure to say yes to God's way and versus a yes to our way and so you just go that's just the tension of the Christian life going. Hey, I still said I still mess up. I still do some egregious things yet and that's why Romans again water. Yet sinners, Christ died for us, didn't wait for you to get your act together when he swoops.

Then once you're deserving of it. Now all seen while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Nobody is too far gone for the Lord, not even a dead person in that same passage in Luke goes up the stairs's house and he raises his daughter that person God wants to raise him from the dead, always in you being alive you're not too far gone. And if you're in Christ is already defined who you are and you need to fight praise that reality. I need to fight to embrace the reality that I am you are a cold air, a joint heir with Christ are to be at the big table with him might praise God this is the note on the Steve Noble shelf, God willing, I'll talk to my dad always another program powered by the Truth Network


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