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July 22, 2022 3:50 pm


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July 22, 2022 3:50 pm


Steve talks to John Burke, author of Imagine Heaven, about near-death experiences from multiple accounts and what they saw.

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The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network mobile show were biblical Christianity meets the everyday life in your home, at work, even in politics. Steve is an ordinary man who believes in an extraordinary God it on a show, there's plenty of grace and lots of three no sacred cows call Steve now 86 34 true 866-34-TRUTH or checking out online, Steve Noble now here's your host Steve Noble okay now you guys all know that I love facts years and numbers because that's the reality in which live and find ourselves and then applying and working through all of that through biblical worldview. But that's this might be a little shocking to some of you with the advent of modern medicine and superior resuscitation techniques.

The prevalence of people being brought back from clinical death has sort in 1980 to a Gallup poll reported that 8 million people have had near death experiences are indeed easements are called according to the New York Times and the 40 years since Moody coined the term near-death experience studies in the United States and Germany suggest approximately 4.2% of the population as reported in near-death experience. That's one out of every 25 people or nearly 13 million Americans and it's an even bigger number now suddenly jump to the front of this book that I been telling you guys about for several weeks now. Over the past 35 years I've read that author or heard close to 1000 near-death stories are millions out there. I started seeing amazing commonalities across stories intriguing detailed descriptions by doctors, professors, commercial airline pilots, children, people from around the globe. Each gave a slightly different angle to what started to look like a very similar picture during that same 35 year timeframe. I went from a career in engineering to full-time ministry. I include well over 100 stories of people who are clinically dead or near death were revived and had amazing details to report in writing from the perspective of a convinced Christian, but I was not always convinced the name of the book which is now sold over a million copies, which is just staggering is imagine heaven near-death experiences God's promises in the exhilarating future that awaits you. For those of you on Facebook Liber YouTube live watch and live or catching it later, you might be wondering where is Steve Noble because I'm sitting here the Dresher and I know that's abnormal in normally the only time I get dressed up like this is that a wedding or at a funeral and occasionally at an event that I have to MC in this case it was a dear friends of mine's funeral today. A believer and so that's really right soil for me to be having this conversation with Pastor John Burke is the author of imagine heaven, as well as the pastor of Gateway church on a beautiful Austin Texas which is where my parents met so we have a lot in common. They're going back to Austin in this book John, my wife for a couple years her sister. Sadly, Nikki went to be with the Lord a couple years ago just the age of 58 from pancreatic cancer. Gina, my wife lost her mom at 66. And so I can't remember how God got your book into my wife's hands but it was amazing John to watch how it ministered to her and then she kept trying to get me to read it and I know and I want to talk about this because I know you started out kinda skeptical. I'm an uber skeptical person part of the reason I'm on the radio and so Mike yeah yeah yeah but once I cracked it open.

John page after page chapter after chapter. I've a pretty good sanctified imagination.

It was such an encouraging thought provoking experience for me to follow my wife's experience. So just wonderful and a great blessing to have you on John, welcome to the show. Thanks so much for having me on. I validate your skepticism all right yes it's all right.

And so, for I know a lot of people live a pretty conservative audience. As soon as I started talking about near-death experiences of the last couple weeks leading up to today. I'm sure that rattled a few cages but this is like a 30 year journey for you. So why did you start studying this stuff so many years ago yeah and let me let me just say what I wrote the book 7 years ago. True story. I I said to God, well, this may be the end of my ministry, but I trust you and and because I get it took me 35 years to write the book so the way I got into it was back when I was still in agnostic. I you know is you said I was always been analytically minded.

I was an engineer so science engineering.

I worked as an engineer and when I was still in agnostic. I just I had a lot of questions and my my church upbringing answer any of them. You know there's really God. How do you know Jesus is just, you know, another good man to turn legendary into you know a son of God. I have always nobody could answer my questions will my dad was dying of cancer and so this is a 1978 and someone gave him the first the copy of the first research on near-death experiences is just starting to come out and I saw it on his dresser. I read it one night and I said oh my gosh this God Jesus stuff maybe real and this could be like actual scientific medical evidence, and if so, this is important that actually just opened me up and a number years later was invited into a small group Bible study started studying the Bible. Asking my questions, finding answers came to faith for completely different reasons, not near-death experiences. Then as I went. As I ended up journeying from engineering into ministry. It was like God kept running me into people or the stories over and over again at night and I was always scratch my head like Huntley with what the Bible says and so it it literally did take 35 years of studying it, collecting it researching though I did do my first talk on it in 1989 at University of California, Santa Barbara. So I've been out of that wall. Yeah, anything that's amazing about it again.

II went into it very skeptical and I think in the Western church, particularly when we get into these kind of more supernatural type claims in encounters and stories of people like Ike if you go on a mission trip to Haiti. It's one thing or Africa. It's another thing to China for nothing, but here in the good old US of a kind of crazy stuff just doesn't happen.

However, I guess that which is why started with that portion from the book reality is the medical reality is, people are dying and being brought back to life.

Medical technology is gotten us there and if you to be consistent with a Christian worldview. You know that when somebody dies immediately, something happens and the Scriptures testified that some were not in, Lala land.

When we consider this Re: no and that's why I wrote the book because over the years of studying what what I found. First of all is what convinced me has also convinced many skeptical Dr. Jeff, cardiologist, oncologists, and in the reason I wrote it is because there are commonalities that people talk about literally all over the below you and and and I have rested in. Imagine heaven. I show about 40 commonalities people describe to me before you get into that were talking to Pastor John Burke received noble show here on Friday, July 22 and I been looking forward to this time together with Pastor John Burke is the author of imagine heaven over a million copies sold.

Now near-death X variances God's promises and exhilarating future that awaits you. And if you're listening on the radio.

Do yourself a favor and somehow get to the Facebook page for the Steve Noble show her the YouTube page, because were going to talk about a whole lot of debt to so much that there is no way we can do it really any kinda good justice and in our even when were talking on the commercial breaks.

I don't miss any of this but ultimately I would challenge you and encourage you to read it for yourself. I want to do it.

Very skeptical.

It took my wife two years to come out encourage me air quotes into reading it and I am so glad I did.

It reminded me John. When I read the book on heaven by figures and 56 I just lost his name is like 4050 page book oh Randy L.

Randy Alcorn and that's like okay I think it's okay for me to begin to imagine heaven and like I said I'm a numbers guy so I know that at this point, even without the John Webb telescope is like 76 trillion known stars in the universe, like maybe one day got just got through the gate open organ to get the plane entire playground. I don't know but that that sound like God to me but anyway it's been just great to read it and it's so great to have you well and think about two things. One, Paul says in in Colossians 3.

Set your mind on things above, not on things of the earth because that's where your life right heaven and were to think about what is that me let me imagine. So were commanded to do that.

The problem is I find most Christians not not to mention everybody else don't have a good education of what you like to come is going to be and unfortunately I think that's why we don't live for eternity, like like the Hebrews 11 heroes of faith. Now interestingly just picking up on what we're talking about about on the commercial break.

Paul I believe had a near-death adjuster in acts chapter 14 it says they stoned him to death, and that in Lysistrata.

They dragged him out of the city and left him for dad believers rally around and he gets back up goes back into the city personnel would go back and said yes Paul it's right but I think what you were referring to in second Corinthians 12, Paul says 14 years ago.

He's talking about himself 14 years ago, whether in the body or out of the body. I don't know. I was taken up to the third heaven. I saw and heard things inexpressible and he says some things that you're not allowed to tell. Interestingly, in the ears say this all the time that one day.

There are some things that they knew there that are veiled when they come back here. I think that's what Paul was referring Paul I believe was referring to his being stoned to death and then reviving in in Lysistrata and I think that's what gives us so much insight known. One of the things Paul talks about is in first Corinthians 7 crickets five verse printing 15 talks about how when we die we we have a new body are our natural bodies are buried. You know, in a brokenness, but raised in strength.

Another buried in weakness, he says, but raised in due the boss power and it's fascinating because what what in the ears say is that they didn't have five senses when they when they left the body. They felt like they came alive with like $0.50 is like life on steroids when you're still yourself Dr. more yourself than you've ever been. Now here's the heretical part, this is what convinced me as a skeptic when Junior so when they leave their body there in this spiritual body, but many times they're still in the room where the resuscitation is taking place. They're able to see things they should not have seen while they were unconscious right and they come back they're able to report them in their things. It can be checked out. So for instance I interviewed a cardiologist, Dr. Michael Sabin is a Christian and he absolutely told me he did not believe there was such a thing as a near-death experience but back in the 80s when this was first being talked about. He hears actually Dr. George Ritchie, who had a near-death experience and encounter Jesus and he would lecture on it at the University of Virginia and and he heard this being talked about is like a cardiologist. I've never heard of a cardiac arrest patient have been talking about this stuff so he starts asking his patients and then what he said is this one guy P. Morton told me he had left his body during the first cardiac arrest and watched the resuscitation when Sabin was resuscitated. He said when he asked me to tell when I asked him to tell him exactly what he saw. Describe the resuscitation with such detail and accuracy. I could've later use the tape to teach physicians crazy Bensalem says you know he and other sought details of the resuscitation that couldn't otherwise have seen. For instance, one patient noticed a physician who failed where scuffs over his white shoes during heart surgery many cases, I was able to check out the patient's testimony with medical records after five years of research he changes his mind realizes there's something really this great public is in the Journal of the American Medical Association got the okay Dr. Jeff Long radiation oncologist reads the article and and you not I'm friends with all these guys now he he says no way starts to study it himself. He's now studied thousands of them and is become a believer and he says this by studying thousands of detailed accounts of indie ears. I found the evidence that led to this astounding conclusion in the East provide such powerful scientific evidence.

It's reasonable to accept the existence of an after that then then I get to decide just the details. I have the existence of a night just got inside the details in and it's not like 70 goes well you use the paddles and you gave me an injection another describing things that you otherwise it would never know about. There's one story in there about the shoes up on the ledge like this shoes up in the lead because they left the building and there's a pair shoes on the left and sure enough, there's a pair shoes on the ledge and nobody sitting in a operating room could know that it's impossible or or like in and it's all over the world to write in in in the Lancet, which is like the Journal of the American Medical Association, Europe's most prestigious medical journal of peer-reviewed journals.

Dr. Penn Van Loblaw.cardiologist look back at Steve Noble to Steve Noble so talking to Pastor John Burke today about his incredible book that took years of research in years to write over million copies sold.

At this point. Imagine heaven near-death experiences God's promises in the exhilarating future that awaits you got links up on Facebook so easy way to but if you just google it. That's all you need to do.

Imagine heaven John Burke BUR Katie annual land right there. Just think about this for second just go with me for second because we been talking about doctors and's account of a scientific approach of the word and unpack the theology behind this. We mentioned a couple things but I want to dive in their deeper and kinda deal with some of the typical tenant concerns and skeptical perspectives on this particular issue, but when there's one Scriptures tell us that we see to the glass dimly, there's a lot of things you can do it that. But imagine that and look we all go out of her way to see some of the most beautiful things on her.

I traveled a lot. Pastor John's been in 30 countries around the world.

You can see beautiful things experience beautiful things.

What if all of that is like seeing to the glass dimly as beautiful as Maui was as beautiful as it is or where you got the Wyoming and Montana anywhere in the world through cat and Tylenol care where you go.what if that were just a really bad shadow a really lousy old picture old movie. No sound. It doesn't it's two-dimensional doesn't really give you any flavor and then the moment you pass from this life and the next and you're in heaven what heaven actually reality and what we deal with here on this messed up rock is not. It's like a shadow. It's a missed it's it's like this terrible little fabrication. That's nowhere near the reality that's waiting for us that God designed originally that were to be and eventually and eventually that that heaven will come down to earth and then that should been begin to kind of poke at your imagination.

I hope and get you excited as as terrible as it is, I was just at a funeral. People were sad to share this temporary separation, but my buddy Dr. Bert Kelling is not sat. He he is one of the story that is in glory and ecstatic and he had a great imagination and I'm sure his mind is completely blown and warm. It will remain such for all eternity that some of the blessing that you can get when you go down this road and and honestly contemplate these things and just receive what the Lord has given us here in this book. Imagine heaven by Pastor John Burke again. John thanks much for being with us today why I totally agree with you, and part of why I wrote the book one I I am a missionary apart and I wanted people to see that God is real, and some of the very things that convince me can convince you to and I'm not just talking about near-death experiences. I'm talking about how much in the Scripture what these people are commonly saying it's all the beauty of heaven.

Paul said no.

I have seen no years for the mind has. Imagine what God is prepared for those who love right and when people some of the things just blow your mind so for me you know when blind people who have never seen anything in their what a great example Vicki and another one routable a girl cannot talk to them. So Vicki's dead now, but Braddock talked to. She died when she was 22. In an automobile accident.

She she is a believer in Jesus. She's watching the you know all the stuff going on operating honor and she realizes yes this site now and it's confusing to her first blind at birth. What was she blind her whole life a lot doesn't dream in any images right okay and others know nothing right and and then, but that she starting to understand okay this must be what people call vision right and and then she's like here. I know where I'm going and through the ceiling of the hospital. She goes and through this tunnel light at the end and she's hearing this glorious music and she comes out this garden like beautiful scene grass green are the imagine in trees and flowers and birds and this large gathering of people that come toward her and she said everything was shining with this light coming out of it. That was it was like it was love. It was life altogether and it's coming out of everything she said and it's coming out of the first coming out of the flowers, the trees, the people, and then she she sees this one person more brilliant than the sun, and she goes to him and she and his Jesus and she knows and Jesus embraces her and and she sees the light coming out of his beer and and she says this hug but she has remembers deeper than any hug that there's ever been on, and in his presence. She gets this life review now these are all commonalities are right that people experience all all of the glow, but let me just point out a couple things are in Scripture that you would never think about so first of all near-death experiences talk about the colors of heaven or Barbie on the color spectrum. We don't have those colors you will the colors here on earth of the color spectrum of the sun, but the color spectrum of heaven is the color spectrum of the glory of God. Think about this. Isaiah 60 and Revelation 21 says there is no sun or moon in heaven because the Lord is the is the wise, the Lamb Jesus is the lamp and the nations will walk in that line, but that's what blind people say how you ever get that idea they would never hurt on earth that what comes out of stuff and yet that's what sighted people say as well. When that when the experiences they also talk about how they can see for miles and miles and miles of your eyesight is his telescopic in which it first when I was like Alaska New Age weird. I Intel Intel I started really studying everything about heaven in the Bible, and then I read about John in Revelation 21 who is taking the spirit up to this very high mountain above this, the new Jerusalem, the city and he says from up on this great mountain. He showed me the holy city, and on the gates were written the names of the 12 tribes of Israel pretty good vision.

You read names on a city from up on a very high now coming at the big gate John but it's not then think but here's the other amazing thing so you in imagine heaven. I mainly focus on stories from people like doctors who had near-death experiences, CEOs, bank presidents commercial airline pilots you people who have nothing to gain an end credibility in their profession to lose his crazy story that's right that's right. And yet you know a commercial airline pilot Capt. Dale black sees that same city. God allows him to come like why in with angels ended to the city and he sees the amount and he said that it was.

It was like makes Mount Everest, looks right that the guy that was in the plane with the other guys and they crashed into that 70 foot tall Oedipus.

It's amazing. I have seen the newer that the Los Angeles Times picture.

I looked it up. I know you thought I looked it up for success in the way was like just in peace. Nobody survived but Dale came back to talk and he has actually he he has flown not only commercial for TWA was a commercial airline pilot for years, but he flew medical ministry missions all over the globe as well is devoted follower G but that's that is actually part of his descriptions that I read at my mother's memorial couple weeks ago when you know that's the chapter, Chapter 8 yeah that's what I read when I met in the hospital with people. I said I just want you a picture. Yeah what's it has a boiler alert it's mind blowing and it is mind blowing and it is so encouraging and and frankly it's fine for me to read that because I'm an active imagination person I love movies I love sci-fi all that kind of stuff and so it just my mind just starts opening up and then I think about that that Jesus is been working on this been working on your house in my house, and these mansions and whatever that ends up being for all this time for couple thousand years and it's is mind-boggling. So exciting and exhilarating.

I might get me off this rock Lord, and there are so many things like, you know, Vicki, or others.

They take talk about that this light that comes out of people right and so that that kind of threw me for a while again until I really read that no but I say that facetiously sure I'm talking dirty been to seminary and I and I got I I am the Bible, so I read through the Bible every year when I study a systematic theology of heaven right so Daniel chapter 12 the angel says to Daniel in in that day you know everybody will be resurrected some to perdition, some to everlasting life, and those who are righteous will shine like the stars Matthew chapter 13, Jesus says, and then the righteous will shine like the stars in their in their father's kingdom, so what what I talk about in imagine have is that you know God talks about the rewards of right so heaven is a free gift of God, yeah, you know, Craig sister, Jesus, and Jesus is the only way we live our lives does make a difference of experience as we enter and try everybody's cup is going to overflow everybody's cup is the same size that exactly that I was taught that were talking to pastor John Burke. Imagine heaven is the book over a million copies sold yourself a favor and get yourself let's get a copy will be right that back in Steve Noble to Steve Noble show. Hope you're going to have a great weekend and spend time with family, people they love. By the way, to encourage people and tell them you love them was at a funeral today. I see my friend in a couple years and that that's difficult and my mother died recently are actually January we did her last memorial just couple weeks ago and you don't want to know you don't want to get to the end of some of the stories with all kinds of regret often say that encouragement is a currency we don't trade in much so make sure you are crack open your wallet on that one and encourage people and tell how much they mean to you and and how much you love them and how much you appreciate their friendship because especially in this world now since the digital age. We must never hear that we don't hear it outside the church. We don't hear it much inside the church is just a little little encouragement to you for the weekend to make sure use that time wisely.

Were talking to John Burke, Pastor John Burke imagine heaven near-death experiences God's promises in the exhilarating future that awaits you real quick question John how we deal with theologically people that are outside the faith are like, how can somebody that either flat out rejects God or 70 from another religion.

How can they see things that Christians see. I thought for sure that they would just immediately they go to hell. They don't see this beautiful stuff.

There's no second chance. How we cut a deal at that theologically let me say several things and I can't do what was what I said that's okay don't worry about I'm not a skill that this is your okay so first of all, one of the interpretive keys that really help me make sense of this with biblical truth because you Hebrews 927 says appointed for humanity to die once and then comes a judgment right so now encapsulate that.

In fact, the judgment actually done come to the end of human history, E&P and people's near-death experiences.

30% of them around the world in the presence of this god of light and love. Get a life review.

They really live their life and they say things like what time didn't work the same way like a second. I don't know if was a second or if it was I so my whole life like that and what I relived every moment. Well, that's what Peter says in second Peter 38 right to the Lord a day is like a thousand years a thousand years like me there all these things, but the life review is not judgment. It is, it is Jesus showing them what matters most is exactly what he said there is nothing concealed that will be disclosed, or hidden that will be made no now Paul said in first Corinthians 4 weight the Lord to come. Don't judge anything wait for the Lord. He will bring to light what is hidden in the darkness and expose the motives of the heart at that time each will receive their praise from God. Here's a couple things to note here so people all over the glow in the presence of God. They see clearly their right and wrong. Now one of the things they say is, but God is not judging me.

God was loving it was the most amazing national law.

They've ever felt and he knew everything and and remind things they didn't know and they were judging some researchers that see this is not the God of the Bible because he's not judgment bullies not a punishing God is just forgiving is just as all good and all that. A couple things one like we talked about in the brave. A large percentage of people have actually reported having a hellish experience. So it's not all good right the other you have as many people reporting that is you do something that's positive yet you put down on Facebook yeah so so it's not all good now. The other thing that's important that we noted before, is that Revelation 17 says every even those who pierced him. So we shouldn't be surprised if if non-Christians do see him hold it so think about this right. So Paul is killing Christians saw and on the Damascus Road. This blinding God of why appears and he asked who are you, Lord. And then he says I'm Jesus the one you're persecuting now. Note something Jesus does not tell him the gospel doesn't tell them what he should should do or must do yeah know not a recess got initially go to the city and you learn what you must do and then God sends Ananias know why and and this is very important because it used to confuse me will why would God stand or face-to-face or someone loving them and not telling the gospel right drop the hammer because he has you and me to do that. That is in the mean.

Sometimes we Christians, we think God could do that if you want. If you know how limited that's his plan.

Plan is that we would get over ourselves enough and loved people enough to share the most important thing in life is that God loves all people and what he did through Jesus as he doesn't stand ready to judge or condemn anyone but to forgive.

Okay, jump back require.

So Jesus says actually exactly what near-death experiences report he says, by your own words will he he said I did not come to the world to judge the world. I came into the world to save as John 317 right and then he says, by your own words, will you be condemned by your own words, will you be acquitted.

So this life review is showing people that fit in in God's presence.

There is no hiding like you can hide and justify shirt like crazy to you but they say no, it was all clear and what I deserved was clear but at the same time that acquittal comes from the recognition that I need God writing need you. I can't get myself out of this. Out of this pit and you mentioned that that interpretive key is the boundary that a lot of you will come to this boundary and it's like you're no further so.

So here's. So here is my theory. After studying so many of them, and because God even says to them you have to go back. You haven't died like what you mean you guys yet.

You have no heartbeat and you have no brain waves. Yeah, you and your and you're in this heavenly experience right.

I believe this is a case. This is something in between. And the reason people experience this border boundary and by the way also because in in imagine heaven. I do holds a whole chapter on hellish one of them is a tenured atheist college professor is become a good friend actually three of the hellish in the ease that I know are now pastors while okay and this guy. He didn't believe there was an afterlife at all. But when his due addendum ruptures in France. He finds himself initially and this is another interpretive key. Initially he standing there in the room and he feels great he just felt the worst he's ever felt. Now it feels like Superman. He has his welcoming committee of people were really friendly and he's confused he thinks they're going to lead them to surgery, but they deceive them and that they lead them into the outer darkness and turn on him and begin the all horrible story is like the worst prison scene. You can ever imagine. And he he has to start in his soul. He remembers being brought the Sunday school as a kid remembers a song Jesus loves me. All he could remember and in his desperation he calls out Jesus save me and into this outer darkness comes this light is brighter than the sun arms reach out and grab as as he just bawled like a baby realizing how wrong he was takes them out of there and he gets a life review. Okay. And he he he learned a lot of things about life review because he was not a good person and but he comes back in. Imagine this, he leaves his tenured college professorship become a Christian pastor's wife who is still an atheist divorces his greatest in he's told me you know about the greatest heartache of his life as he convinces children so well in atheism. They still still law which is really sad yeah Mike Mike my point of it is that it was confusing to me.

How can people cry out to God and he saves them after they've done right will they have an and I don't fully understand this, but they have not crossed over that border boundary that so many of them talk about my new if I crossed over there.

I could not come back to earth right and I believe that is the that Hebrews 927 appointed for man to die. Once that is that is the step into right turn and where all our choices are eternal lives in a course that God, being omniscient, knows and that moment that this is your final death. Yeah he knows that something I don't how this is going to turn the other thing for us as Christians just realized is that Jesus told a parable of the unfair, the unfair boss who gave people all the same pay and people who didn't deserve it all. They didn't even do any work at all and God's grace is way bigger. I think sometimes want to give you credit, yet he does not want anyone to perish but for everyone to come to to eternal life and and that's the type of joy and excitement and loving care for people that we should have what should drive a gospel mindset.

We have up just about a minute left, John, believe it or not, but what your net, what would your your number one encouragement to people to read the book I mean is about numbers as you. This is about success. Just what the number one reason they should pick it up and just say okay I want you to give it a try because you because it changes the way you know. Hebrews 11 talks about all of God's heroes of faith and what it says is, they had their minds on the heavenly country not on this that I think you're right. Why they love.

That's why they could walk by this.

There is a heavenly coming and here's the thing, don't imagine it won't live right. You can imagine retirement all man. We plan to live right. That's right, God has something better. What a great point Pastor John Berg God bless you brother thank you for 30 years of working interest in pursuit in imagine heaven.

What an incredible book.

I do yourself a favor and get this and read it and let it bless you bless me and my wife this is Steve Noble and Steve Noble show, God willing out another program powered by the Truth Network

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