Freedom From Addiction

The following program is recorded content created by the Truth Network mobile show where Christianity meets the everyday issues of life at work and even in politics. Steve is an ordinary man who believes in an extraordinary God is on his show.

There's plenty of grace and lots of true no sacred call Steve now 634 true 866-34-TRUTH or checking out online.com. Now here's your host Steve Noble back everybody a little bit in my life and get in the way back machine and you go back.

I'm not probably say maybe 10 or 12 or 13 years a very zealous Christian culture warrior and engage in all those arenas in politics and such. But one area where I was really hardhearted inside the the world of Christianity was when it came to like counselors like you gotta get a counselor you have a therapist anytime you heard any of that stuff. I thought that's just for weak people.

If you need a counselor it's because your faith is weak.

You don't trust the Lord. You don't know his word yada yada yada. I was miming.

I had really wide phylacteries and really long tassels and I was so judge mental of people that believed in counseling and sought counseling because I thought it was just a sign of weakness is like if you walk around crutches because there see that some physical problem makes you unable to support yourself and that's why I looked at but then I started to actually have some counselors and various peoples to professionals in the professional side and people that were professional counselors as well as biblical counselors from that perspective on the show every once in a while and it wasn't exactly what I expected and then a full disclosure over the course of I'd say the last eight years. Some of the same biblical counselors have been tremendous blessings to our family personally to us as individuals, us as a couple in man.

It's this unbelievable resource as God gives some to be teachers and leaders and we have different gifts and there's wisdom in a multitude of counselors. So why would you not think that a cortical Christian counselor would not be a source of incredible wisdom.

Of course they are now and it comes to the topic ring to discuss today on theology Thursday with our friends at BJ's seminary. Addiction is a tough one because we live in a culture that's going to say you know you're born into a family were alcoholism is in the bloodstream. It's part of the DNA and so you're just going to kind of struggle that you're predisposed to it and so there's the issues of physical dependence versus addictions are those the same thing. Are they different what about the Bible shows you should you just read your Bible, pray every day and the addiction will go away.

That's actually opening line from today's seminary viewpoint blog which we always use and our friends at BJ's seminary kind enough to write this and tailor it to what were to talk about the trade.

Welcome back to the program. Jim Berg is really an expert and a leader and I thought leader and professor of biblical counseling at BJ's seminary in order work our way through this freedom from addiction as slaves to God kind of applying theology to a very difficult topic, but Jim, it's great to have you back. How are you it's great to be back.

Steve, I'm doing really well.

Thank you. Was that was me having a bad attitude about biblical counseling and kinda going down this road as a believer as it is a serious, committed believer was my attitude, abnormal, or do you think it was kind of the norm probably was the norm many years back as you talk about it and and in evangelicalism and conservative evangelicalism we and fundamentalism.

We've been really good at doctrine and reproof by we find that we haven't been so good at using the word for corrections setting things back again and instruction in righteousness helping people long enough to be able to change the thinking in progressive sanctification, so we were using the word of God for half of its function. According to secondary 316, 17 so that wasn't uncommon.

Back in those days yeah and and I can be very hardhearted but I think this is when you get into addiction.

Is this something could could I could I accurately call it like 1/3 rail kinda subject because I think we been conditioned and taught, and I will work through this that addiction really is a is a metaphysical thing. It's a chemistry thing.

It's a genetic thing so this is when we get to talk to a Christian counselor distro in the Bible that addiction is. I don't know Pollyanna-ish. It's a little is it ignorant is is this kind of a tough topic. Yes, it really is and I think it's because of that conflation of the physical component that drives that often comes as a result of drug dependency. There is certainly is a physical component but driving it is not the drug. Many, many secular researchers and clinicians will have gone on record in the writings and in their seminars that the thing that keeps people and drugs is not the pull of the drug itself.

Although many, many drugs have serious pole but but the thing that keeps people in addiction is a don't have a better solution to the problems are trying to solve with the drug by altering their moods or numbing their brains and and I what I try to do in helping Christians understand this is that we have to understand that even the world is now making a very clear distinction between physical dependency and what they call true addiction and the physical dependency would be like if grandma goes into the hospital and she has hip surgery and is on morphine drip for three weeks. She doesn't come out of the hospital, a junkie, although she may come out foggy but she's not. She doesn't come out looking for a hit on the street because the drugs interfere with what she wants to get back to know if and and so she can. She gets rid of it just as soon as she can and overcomes that physical dependency but if grandma does not have a better life to go back to you heard she's estranged from her family.

Nobody wants to be around her cheeseburger relational bridges the drug side effects of the mood altering experience and the brain numbing experience are welcome by grandma and now she has two problems, a drug dependent AAA physical dependency and an addiction which just means I'm using something to solve the problems of my soul using something other than God to do that yet.

Which in a catchphrase today.

Jim obvious is like self medicate. So as we look at for example, back when I was a teenager.

You know drinking a beer.

In 1985 was no big deal. We have a we have a culture now in America for for 16-year-old €17.20-year-olds where it's no longer drinking a beer is no big deal. It's smoking marijuana is no big deal. In that case, there's a lot a lot of that self-medication and because like you said, you start off by it's just a way to kinda solve a problem, but there is an addictive physical aspect of marijuana and there's and that's on the table as well. I think as we work through this today talking about physical dependence versus addictions. We put the cart before the horse.

There a horse that we talking about the chicken or the egg. It's been interesting to work through this for coming up on a break, but working to keep talking this is a difficult subject because we have to deal with both. There's the there's the physical reality of it. Physical dependence and that is what leads to an addiction. What can you do in the spirit and the mind in the hearts because that's just as important and often times we set one aside and ignore the other, or vice versa. Were talking to Dr. Jim Burton a bit of the counseling at BJ's seminary theology Thursday, the Steve Noble will be right back to back. It still theology Thursday with her for right now and and so you can go to my Facebook page is the Steve Noble show and take a look at this. This is something in and in light of what we've been through the last two years okay in in America and not just here but around the world because of the covert lockdowns and everything else that's going on there. Addiction has gone through the roof and across all different kinds ages and all kinds of addiction was drug addiction and alcohol addiction. There's there's been a proliferation of issues personal issues mental issues emotional issues as a result of what we've gone to the last two years and so this is out there a lot more than any of us think there's a lot of addiction that doesn't have to be someone is down and out and on a street corner and you see when you hop off the highway. There's a lot of people that are addicted there quietly addicted.

It's not so normal there kind of functioning and you don't know it, but there's a lot of it out there and so the Bible has a lot to say, God cares we should care. There's a lot there.

From a counseling perspective from a theological perspective in dealing with addictions, freedom from addiction as slaves to God which working to get to the dam in a post that I just posted that the blog post for today.

Dr. Jim Berg biblical counseling at BJ's seminary. By the way, every week we have a blog that accompanies these great conversations that we do with our friends at BJ you so you can access that all the time to go to seminary.BJ you.edu\radio that's the main page you will see every blog that we've done since we started theology Thursday about eight or nine months ago and and it's just rich great thought leadership great topics that are not just things to think about the things that can actually affect how you live your life on a daily basis so seminary.BJ you.edu\radio will enter there. But today's topic freedom from addiction as slaves to God again. Jim, thanks so much for your time today. Thank you for having your very welcome though I wanted to start. We alluded to this before, but you've actually mentioned this in the blog post. The national Institute of drug abuse correctly states that physical dependence in and of itself does not constitute addiction but all often accompanies addiction. So we have this physical dependence and that we have addiction still help us Jim to understand the difference between the two sure what the world is calling sometimes a physical dependence is called physical addiction. And then what what they are calling true addiction is actually what would they also call psychological addiction well we would look at and and when you look at the problems that people are trying to solve and what the world call psychological addiction. They are all matters of the soul so anger is a soul problem and anxiety and worry are soul problems, vengeance and hatred are soul problems, anger and bitterness are soul problems, loneliness, although some sinful. It is a problem resolved in the soul sure shame is a is a soul problem.

It it can be shame because of your own sin to be shame because somebody has sinned against you, but it's still resolved in the soul and the world would call psychological problems. We would call them spiritual problems because God is the only one with answers to any of the problems in the soul. So what the world is calling the true addiction component the psychological component actually lands squarely in the pages of Scripture because of Scripture is all about those soul issues. Those are issues and that's where biblical counseling is in is that the science may give us some things are helpful but about understanding the role of the drug or the side effects of the drug but only the Bible tells us what is essential for overcoming enslaving behaviors. Whether it's related to a drug or two eating or cutting or running away or gambling.

All of those are ways of dealing with soul problems and that is the domain of the Scriptures and anybody coming inside that fence. You is hopping over God's fence or what are his issues got them experiment since that's a good way.to understand than the physical dependence just as an acknowledgment that these things and I were talking about cocaine or marijuana or alcohol or even pornography. The these things have physical reign of ramifications they operate in the physical world and they actually can create dependence that's physical in nature. Yes, yes and that is true no no drug is you know has its own pole in the sense that it's it's difficult for people to break away from right because of the tolerance issue, but other things like pornography and so forth. Actually, our body was made in her brain as part of her body is made to reinforce the choices of our heart, body serves our heart.

If I want to pick up this water ball water bottle my my body serves the desires of my heart and it does that in habituation as well. Several several of the men who been writing about this in recent years on the in the secular sense. Talk about this. This is addiction is a developmental process you grow into addiction when I talk about the chemical get all the others. You grow into that your body reinforces your choices eliminate other options in your mind pushes you toward what is exciting emotionally and and actually rewires it and then we think in the world's is what rewires your brain your your trap all all learning is rewiring of the brain. Your brain didn't rewire couldn't learn anything right and that was why growing out of addiction is, is progressive sanctification. It is a growth process of learning to turn in another direction for the problems of life rather than turning to an experience in life and all addictions are about to experience, and the in the Bible. This is the domain of the Bible guesses where the Scriptures shine.

Yeah, that's why ME nabbed is I've heard some people say Jim was talking to Jim Berg from BJ's seminary biblical counseling. I've heard some people say you know a Christian should never be addicted to anything but that of other Christians not immune to sin. Christians not immune to soul issues right, no, not at all. In fact and in a Roman six that you know the passage of the blog post good. Paul talks about how we can become slaves of sin and then work upon conversion. The goal is to become slaves of righteousness and II have had people protest and say I don't believe you can have a Christian addict and I say so you know they're the course are talking about somebody who's in drug addiction and I say so you mean that that woman in your church who's been up factional world-class worrier for the last 40 years is not a believer I see you know what I what I look at is if first Corinthians 6. Such were some of you if somebody is in a sin and it's become his lifestyle and he's defending that.

Then he probably isn't believer right right if he is fighting that with God's help and with the help of the church.

The Scriptures then his just like the rest of us, and what I like to take my cue from his Revelation 319 Jesus said talking.

The church at Laodicea for as many as I love I rebuke and chasten. So I am asking mentor the men that I'm working with. I say when you go back and do that you experience any conviction.

Frank's huge question.

Do you experience any chastening from God all the time. But if somebody says no I never think about.

I'm never reviewed by that and I don't see any chastening I had some very consequences. I hate that there's no awareness of God and that he's probably not a believer. Yeah that's trouble that that's owned on the buddies of mine is a man really struggling with something. My first responses. Praise the Lord. Yes, welcome party, but the fact that your struggling means it matters you see that it's a problem. If you are not struggling at all. Besides being a narcissist or sociopath. Odds are the spirits, not even any DOL, not really. I don't really feel any conviction over the that's clearly not biblical.

You should clearly fill conviction and if you don't to me that the spirit within you. That's really difficult will be right back BJ's seminary that rebuilt South Carolina that the other website is always there to check out every thing we talk about every Thursday. Seminary.BJ you.edu\radio cannot that's a mouthful.

As I say it several times to show seminary.BJ you.edu\radio will land right there where I got that I got the links up on Facebook lives to just go to my Facebook page, you'll be able to find it there as well. Just under the Steve Noble show on Facebook and and and there's valuable to some great resources there. Plus they can get the other things about not only the seminary by Bob Jones University all kinds of other things that are going on down there. It's very very busy place and a lot of opportunities whether you're there or online is truly great option.

So make sure you check that out today what working our way through this brand-new blog post seminary viewpoint freedom from addiction as slaves to God which we are talking with Jim Berg about kind of the physical dependence versus addictions and then if we were to talk about. Could you mention Kenneth a master Jim and in who are you looking to your time as a counselor, being a signpost were talking about this during the break point people to Jesus.

For some reason because I'm such a goofball. What started playing through my head was the old who's song where they say meet that meet the new boss, same as the old boss which I understand that from a physical realm from a worldly realm that we have a sin nature and in kind of the same things that Solomon said is nothing new under the sun. However, when it comes to this topic of addictive addiction we say meet the new boss, same as the old boss. That's the problem is and it is like which which boss are you gonna submit yourself to the old master the new master all of our decisions. Well, we have to look at two things. One, one art temptations temptations are the solicitations of our sinful nature to get something we want outside of the will of God and in our and our hearts are our constant factories of solicitation to two evil to think evil of other people to lead to to lust to be ambitious to be proud and temptations of those solicitations to do evil. That's what James, I think John is addressing in second John 215 to 17 when he talks about the less the desires of our flesh, the desires for pleasure desires for sessions, the lust of the eyes of desires for honor and shame and in recognition that pride of life that all of those things often drive what we want and often is the thing that drives people to drugs or alcohol in the first place were you born because of the sheer pleasure that it gives sin that people are attracted to sin because it makes them more miserable. Nobody said something to get into this in the right way to happy writing some misery in my life that ever happened drawn. Because of this sinful nature we have, but then, then we have trials of life and that's because we live in a fallen planet were stuffed happens and goes wrong, and we have our own sinful nature were fighting against and all of the things done against us by other people. Sinful natures and now we have a trial that our heart has to look at interpret make conclusions and then decide what to do and and and and what what Romans six, so clearly states is that there just to master you. You're either running the show, taking the cue from your sinful nature or God is running the show in your taking your cue from that in there just two ends of that one is going to be increasing righteousness.

The other one is going to be increasing sinfulness and if you're not a believer ultimately eternal death, and the Scriptures just really clear about how we ought to handle temptation to how we need to handle the temptations that trials bring our way and so when were dealing with the issue of addictions.

It's really a huge really the crux of it. The, the, the fulcrum of the whole thing is believer versus nonbelievers and well a believer in approach and begin approaching on a lever from a soul level in terms of referencing Scripture with Scripture means nothing to them. They can even understand spiritual truths yeah what what you can do is say, you know, I know you reject Scripture you're coming for me to help. Let me just start in a foundational truth about who you are is a human being. God created you a certain way.

The fall created certain effects in your life and here's where you are now in that whole process. Here's what God has to say about the solution for that.I could. I can give somebody tips about anger management or stress reduction or whatever and it ended in all of us rejoice when somebody gets sober for example, makes a better husband a better employer, a better citizen a better employee, but it doesn't it doesn't honor God unless he's a believer and millions of people get sober without any intervention right every year. Over half of the people that are addicted get over it without any intervention and stay sober you can and I tell her folks you can you can become sober without Jesus Christ, but you cannot flourish as a human being. God created you to be without an ongoing relationship with Jesus Christ and ongoing knowledge of and obedience to his word and an ongoing fellowship and accountability to local church. You can't flourish without right everything that makes perfect sense.

So when it when it comes to addiction Jim were talking to Jim Berg from about PG seminary biblical counseling and the topic today is were discussing. It's a difficult one. Freedom from addiction as slaves to God. Oftentimes, I think that you located somebody's and addicts you're an addict for the rest of your life sky being a Marine universe not being a Marine intercepting and addicts. You know alcoholics is a ham still alcoholic. But I haven't had a drink 10 years. Whatever the case may be, is that is that of a bad way to look at it if you're in Christ when you be free.

I mean that's what Jesus said didn't you and and and even in the secular world is reading a study recently that said, the single most important factor that keeps people in drug addiction is the belief that they have a disease while because if you have a disease you don't talk your way out of cancer right talk your way out of out of a broken leg. You may get into support groups of sick people with similar problems, but the talk therapy is not secure and an addiction is not a disease and and their many in the secular world that just really disgusted with the whole idea that the addiction is a disease and that it's incurable but AAN others have made it very popular that yes you drunk, always drunk and you have an incurable disease and II don't know all of the motives behind that circuit is a multi-billion-dollar enjoying, sure, and if I enter find if I can keep you coming back to me.

Home always get in the Army. The fact is, God made all of his dependent beings in order in order to be dependent on him.

But if we don't depend on God were going to depend on something of a sentence of step group right whatever but we need to be a part of a community that is get a plainness to dependence to Jesus as a solution. Otherwise there is no lasting solution yeah and then that's what that's where can be so depressing. Annette and Melissa, not that kind of thinking bleeds into our prayer lives were were afraid to pray big prayers because what if God doesn't come through, then I'm afraid what that's gonna do to me is not really my faith. And so we kind of pull back and we would lower the bar so that we don't get disappointed in it and that that's a scarcity mentality. And that's not a victory mentality yeah and and actually it's a mentality that's not billed on a growing knowledge of God might my faith isn't determined by whether he comes to the way I want my faith is determined by who has revealed himself to be is always loving. He's always wise he's always sovereign. He is always merciful. He's always gracious he's always forgiving the more I know God, the more I can filter what I'm experiencing through what I know and make my commitments to them. Got I don't understand this at all, but I know who you are. Amen. And I know what you promised and because of that under obey what you said here no matter what I do I teach and freedom at last classes we have to whatever the trial or temptation left about trust and obey. My first conversation in the first response to any trial or any temptation needs. II got a have a conversation with God right now. And sometimes that's a bowing of repentance because I mishandled it. Sometimes it's a but it's always a bowing of submission in some way and in a bowing of dependence and then trust bow trust.

Trust what he has said I got a know what he has said yeah real trust and then obey.

I got to know what he is.

He is commanded me to do in the help is given me to do what one of our men in a meeting a few weeks a few months ago.

He stood up in the testimony time is so I just watch all the no IBT owed three times today. He said that means I bow trust and obey his problems and I followed and I talked to God and I trusted it has been the best day of my life while so when we say God didn't come through when he didn't do that sets of very narrow view of who God is. He's not a genie in the bottle is not as supernatural vending machine is merciful and loving powerful God who who doesn't deliver me from all the evil he delivers me from sinful responses to the evil that happened yeah what a great point that so powerful today to hear about that way, bow, trust and obey BTL for all you that are in your mid-50s or older. That does not mean Bachman Turner overdrive you about how trust and obey. Want to talk about obedience.

Obedience to the new master and the will finish up with the myth of is there 1/3 master out there that's an interesting concept talk about that as well. Were talking to Dr. Jim Berg about biblical counseling today specifically about addiction if you know somebody or maybe you're in that ballpark.

This is for you. God is speaking to you today so make sure you pay attention will be right back to my show talking about addiction they freedom from addiction as a slave to God.

Physical dependence versus the addictions and addictions can be a big business and you. It's a challenging conversation for a lot of people just had somebody on Facebook lives and so are we saying that it addict of alcoholism is not a disease, and in Dr. Jim Berg is here with us today said, yeah, that's what I'm saying but it's not just a Christian is just saying hi. I should know about the Bible. Another secular psychiatrist out. That is, a secular movement going away from this addiction as disease to start dealing with the decisions the way we look at life and for us as Christians, we would call the soul issues. Jim mentioned Lance.as the book called the sober truth and then the other one you mentioned as it was it Stanton or Stanton peel anything by Stanton STA and T ON peel his lesson is peel PEELE got Mark Mark Lewis MARC LE WIS has a book called biology of desire. Why addiction is not the disease. While neuroscientists, a developmental psychologist yeah because they're finding that when you approach it as a disease as you were mentioning on the break for something like 12 step program is not working right. I mean, that's the objective is the fascinating documentary called the business of recovery that you can find on iTunes or I think Amazon prime the business of recovery as they unmask what is going on in the addiction recovery movement and bring out the study of the failure of 12 step groups and it does help some people because your overture, but I you know I keep reminding our people that sobriety is not our goal mean it's it's it's a goal that is the endgame, the endgame, because you can be sober and miserable. Sobriety is like triage cannot stop the bleeding but not flourishing yet right right you to be sober miserable the right sober and the thief you can be sober in the moral which can't be like Jesus of the any of those things. So, so that the path out of this. In fact, Stanton peel's latest book is called out growing addiction. There are developmental processes that need to go through your way of looking at life. No, he doesn't have a biblical lens and he doesn't bring God into the picture, but it does say the way out of addiction is that you gotta grow up and deal with your problems.

Different auction is a developmental projects well even in the secular world because truth is truth that they're knocking to give God the credit and then I can use spiritual language but there can end up landing on the same think is truth is truth, i.e. you don't have to be a psychiatrist. You don't have to be a physics professor to understand the law of physics or gravity just is.

So then when it's truthful, it doesn't matter when we discovered the law of gravity doesn't matter whether 600 years older.

2000 years old or 40,000 years will doesn't matter what's true is true and that that's why it's fascinating to me. By the way, if you're out there and you're kinda getting triggered by this conversation and out because we been all been on this road is addiction is a disease then go read for yourself. Don't just stop here with an emotional reaction.

Turn it off and then walk out of the room. Go read, go show yourself approved. Spend the time and invested because human beings are worth it. So whether it's a land status book the sober truth or outgrowing addiction by Stanton peel or anything by Mark Lewis, MARC Lewis and go read a case that seriously shall be doing our our homework here, but there are a lot of choices here and I want to get to the final part of the blog post today, but the choice to obey the new master.

That's really the probably the biggest part of the battle is that we just have to make better choices and in Romans Romans six is so clear about that in pulses just because you're under grace doesn't mean you can can you can continue to sin, and he talks about this Roman church and and in Romans 617, he says, but thanks be to God, that you who once were slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart euro wholeheartedly following God to the standard of teaching were the apostolic teaching that we have in the Bible, to which you were committed and having been set free from sin, you have become slaves of righteousness.

And he makes you make that appeal is you are going to use serve sin that your sinful nature personified here in Romans six earlier to serve sin or you're gonna serve Jesus, and their two outcomes of that one. You're going to have an increasing righteousness when you can have increasing lawlessness and if you're not an end. If you are an unbeliever, the only way you can go is increasing righteousness, lawlessness, right to eternal death leads to death right but what Romans six is saying is that when when you were dead with Christ when he died on the cross and when you accepted him as Savior. You died with him and you are resurrected with him to walk in newness of life. And now you you didn't have a choice of following God or your sin nature before salvation you had failures in the now you have a choice and you need to be making the choice to follow your new master and that's Jesus Christ and everything. He is said in his word yeah and that's and that's where the rub is. That's for the battle as we acknowledge that openly and freely, and that's why the salt little meth of 1/3 master because think that's where most of the world is today.

Eileen Barna research in the last year Woods would show you that only about 6% of Americans Jim are actually living out of convictional biblical worldview, only 6%. I think the mid vast majority of the remaining 94% think there actually is 1/3 master. It's themselves I'm I'm not a terrible person I want to be a Jesus thing that's not for me as a people are wacko but I'm not a serial killer over here. I'm in kind of this neutral decent third-party third master arena and Paul makes a perfect habit, such as what you're leading to that. That's just a lie is one of the other ear their child to go to your child double what was one of the other yet that's right and and when you become a believer. You're either serving your sin nature again and and that's why Paul says in Galatians that if you walk in the spirit and you will not fulfill those desires of the flesh, so the Bible acknowledges that we can be saved and still serve our flesh, but if we are believers were going to experience the conviction of God and we can experience his chastening. If we truly are his children because he loves us is going to rebuke and chasten us Romans Revelation 319 you. Is this in terms of the realm of being a Christian counselor, Jim and teaching it and leaving in this this whole this whole world of addictions gotta be probably one of the most difficult areas because it's it can have such a stronghold. It can be so dark and depressing.

It really collapses, and so many other areas of life is is I just am just about get someone ask is just kinda point people in the direction of hope as I think there's a lot of struggle to addiction. They just they buy that this is just me so I am in the sum to die this way yes yes an end. In Romans six is really clear when he says you once did serve your sinful nature but now you been freed from that EU cancer righteousness but but no people on it. You know the world is captured this idea of of getting out of addiction is a growth process and anything that actually works in the world has been in in the sole area has been plagiarized from the Bible just don't give. They just don't cite God as the source is not but the process out of addiction is is one I have a lot of things to overcome.

I got all of these habits I got all of these these met these habitual responses to certain kinds of things. All of that has to be a growing process of a progressive sanctification. I help our men and women right out. You know we talked about about Tristan O'Day obey. What is your you have a mental script right now for how you handle that trouble you go through every time you've got been on that path so many times and always ends up in the same place. So what is the new mental script informed by the word of God allowing to God what is that look like write out the conversation you're going to have with God.

At the time of temptation or the trial how you're going to bow to God right out that script what it what you can trust him for what verses are you can actually run through your mind and commit to memory and trust that promise and what is it, well, how are you going to obey. Get this mental script that this whole thing has to be learned. It's progressive you say on vacation. It's were transformed by the renewing of our minds, so it's not just you know you can you can turn off the drug in their 3rd tons of people who walk away from Heron heroin and alcohol on an instant, but that doesn't mean they walk away from the wrong way of thinking right life exactly and that has to be corrected.there are a lot of men and women who don't seem to walk away from it like grandma wants to because they still yet don't have a better solution and that's what we really have to help them with that biblical solution and that's why we have to do it, you know, there are and I appreciate you mentioning that there are people that will just get supernaturally delivered from the stop. I me one day it's a nightmare and the next day there free and they're walking in freedom and their starting to flourish and and that and that happens in praise God that it happens, but outside of that. It reminded me I couldn't remember who said it, but it was a book that Eugene Pearson wrote about 40 years ago a long obedience in the same direction which is just that arduous journey of progressive sanctification and and I take two steps forward, I take one step back in and that's the part of the tension of the Christian life knowing that that's not gonna last forever, but I think that's important for us to just realize that sometimes I think for a lot of people.

That's just the deal. It's going to be a long obedience in the same direction I throw in a culture resources here. One is a website called the addiction connection.org and in it you'll find links to resident facilities to tutu programs like ours freedom at last, and to individual counselors all over the world and all of them have been vetted for biblical counseling a biblical counseling approach to addiction and their podcasts are just wonderful podcasts and logs on their other resources. All of that is by Mark Shaw wonderful wonderful friend secular yeah well I'll tell you I just I just linked I just put a link up for that on Facebook lives you guys can check that out, literally.

The addiction connection.org Jim, if you sent me some other resources.

I'd love to post those. So have a chance send me that, but it's been a great conversation is always in such an important topic so great to be reminded that we actually can have victory in Christ, Dr. Jim Berg God bless you my brother. Thanks much for being a very welcome this is Steve Noble and Steve Noble show, God willing. I talked again real soon and like my dad always used to say ever for another program powered by the Truth Network