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Muslims Becoming Christians

The Steve Noble Show / Steve Noble
The Truth Network Radio
January 25, 2021 12:03 pm

Muslims Becoming Christians

The Steve Noble Show / Steve Noble

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January 25, 2021 12:03 pm

Muslims Becoming Christians

Today steve talks with Dick Brogden an African Missionary for 30 years about the mission-field and Muslims becoming Christians. 

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Everyone just ties with his noble show where Christianity meets the everyday issues of life at work and even in politics.

Steve is an ordinary man who believes in an extraordinary God is on a show, there's plenty of grace and lots of true but no sacred 866-34-TRUTH six 634 true or checking out online.com now is your house noble okay are you aware of the fact that you are aware the fact that happening in the kingdom of God, not named America. We are so American centric here in the American church. Western civilization was here in America and juggled Christian. We tend to have a very myopic life. We do that, just in terms of our own family, our bills, our job, our neighborhood, whatever.

But we also do it as Americans and were consumed with our politics and what's going on in the nation and Trump and Biden and all that stuff that we tend to forget that of the vast majority of the body of Christ does not live here.

The vast majority the body of Christ is spread around the world and all think like us, they don't look like us and us is working to be living together for all eternity and probably be a good idea for us to get to know one another and then yesterday I was at church at what used to be RFA. I now cross assembly here in Raleigh, North Carolina Pastor Chad Harvey has been on the show many times in the last few months and he had a kind of a mission emphasis for two weeks and I Mr. Dick Brogdon came in his been in the mission world for over two decades and is served amongst the Muslim population in Kenya.

By the way, Dick.

Welcome to the show. Where's Mauritania correctly.

Mauritania just south of Morocco. Okay, so Mauritania, Kenya, Sudan, Egypt, Arab world, and now on the Arabian Peninsula and so were going to unpack all that but you gave just an incredible message yesterday was very convicting, and it pulled me out of my own American centric life would take look, look, this is my Jerusalem I live here so I'm amended the Catholic Church would call it moral proximity that I'm held more responsible for the things that are close to me than the things that are further away, but also as a Christian I have to remember that I'm part of a global church, not just an American church and so and then from that perspective than as a man and as a husband and as a father is very convicting. It was one of the most women affirming messages I've heard in a long time.

There's just so much about it and so I found Chad. After that, you were done and I like okay how long is this guy in town and by God's grace you're in town longer than today and then just worked out a few beers. I'm just thrilled that you could be here thank you so much for your time. Thanks for having so let's let's get a backup because I want people to get to know you a little bit. I had the pleasure yesterday just the of the sermon in the message. But how did you kinda end up in the world of missions in BC and author, and particularly with your focus on the Islamic world how to how to God pull you and all of that.

So, the missionary kid, my mom and dad were working in Kenya. They went out 1967 I was born there pioneers taking the gospel were never gone, I went to boarding school and I was seven years old and one night I went out to the boarding schools on the Rift Valley went out, looked at the stars and I just saw the glory of God in the heavens, and I thought, in a sense of Psalm 19 the heavens declare the glory of God.

There is no language with her speech hasn't gone and that little teenage heart. I thought if God can be so glorified in his creation. What about the crown of his creation people and I just had this kind of surge of desire. Lord, I want to see you glorified in all peoples of all races, all tribes all tongues of the earth. God use the stars to call me to missions what and then what about the is what party Kenya. By the way I was born Western Kenya over by the Uganda border okay yet because I mention it's really been effective in there twice a mission trip site I told you this earlier and since were going to have a mission focus today is the first time I ever really had the guts to share the gospel with somebody is because I had nothing to lose, that I I was a complete stranger. I was there I was gone, but that ignited a fire in me that's been kindling ever sense I think God for that. So, just a beautiful part of the world. But what what white Muslims.

Yeah.

So after I went to college, I started praying and I went to college, Minneapolis, and I had this desire, no I'm maybe a little more soft-spoken than you are still as radical inside and I said I don't like my life. I want to go where other people are going I want to do what hasn't been done. I want to represent Jesus where he is not known. And as it began to pray for Muslims and realize that there are 1.7 billion now in the world and the ratio was something that that time. This is like in the 80s of about one missionary Muslims for every million in just the statistics of that kinda wrecked me a little bit I thought why want to go their own to make a difference. What was your experience once you started actually spend time with Muslims. I was surprised at how loving they are, how gracious, how kind how hospitable what was your expectation.

I was lonely here was this this is back in 1992 when I first went out to Mauritania okay so we had as Americans, we had a little bit of understanding Middle East, Arab nations, Islamic things, but we will. We were that it wasn't 2001 Carrillo so what was your expectation before you started spending more hostility and what I found out was that their people before their Muslim their fathers, their daughters, I want to get kids in school. They're worried about where the next meal will come from there. Concerned about things that are in their environment, and I don't just mean ecologically, but I mean around them will get went on there just people so I almost learned to my surprise, you kinda do an end run around Islam not to ignore it, you deal with people as humans, and then these other things fall in line. Will isn't it interesting in our current climate and is been this way in America for a while if I've been this way since we got kicked out of the garden, but that wheat we generally don't think of people as people made in the image of God image bearers the Mongol day.

Jesus knows, and died for. We think of them first for what they believe or what they know or what group they're part of inner sexuality. Whatever you want to call it in the modern context, but that's so important for us to remember that these are both just about everybody you meet were all kinda in the same boat. When you boil it all breathe the same blood and have the same desires same hopes and fears.

Yeah that's powerful so you found that they were much more friendly, which I would say with this exactly what I experience when I went to northern Iraq. Several years ago I absolutely yes it was really shocking now.

Did you have much of an American context. Having grown up in no probably not. At any rate I like to joke that I'm the real African-American adolescent is born again I speak Swahili. I am 50 years old.

I live 40 of those years in Africa as I probably more in my heart African that I am American wow that's amazing. So you mentioned earlier and I and I understand you're talking about but but an end around on on Islam in order to kinda reach Muslims but what what are some of the things that you've seen better been particular effective. I don't know if you know a guy name Hannah Shaheen used to be a Transworld radio spent 25, 30 years over there reaching Muslims in and they would hear him on the radio and then he and his wife would literally travel to go see them because they would email a get a hold of them somehow so is really interesting to hear about what works but but relationally. What matters, if somebody knows a Muslim guy would say that there are three encounters that interact. Whenever Muslim meets a follower of Jesus and wants to be attracted to the Lord knows her love, truth and power, love and truth and power and power and so on a daily basis. We want interactive emotional friends on those lines you talk about that and then I will move into what it was talking about yesterday at church, which is to be very encouraging for you ladies and very uncomfortable for the rest of us guys will be right back to back. It seems no one is noble, so exciting because we have always loved music that I just pick three older folks at the band called reason. Generally, you know how you breathe when you get COBIT but that's another subject. Anyway, another day. It's great to be here today talking to Dick Brogdon has been on the mission field for how many years now 29, what's your whole life that really you were born in the mission it will be 29 as a missionary, especially with a focus on them. The Islamic world and today one of the things I was excited about the have Dick and today was the fact that were not to talk about politics were knocking to be American centric that were to keep our focus on the gospel in our place and that story and especially our place in evangelism as I think Dick one of the problems here in America to skip to this question were to get back to mission field. Talk about men and women from yesterday's message at cross assembly but sit like you said your you're more African than you are American because that's where you grown up when you look back over the Atlantic to see the church in America and how if you had a relationship with cross assembly RFA almost 15 years.

So when you look back over here and it through our political stuff in Tromp and Biden, and everything is going over your over your for the like the last 10 years. What's your impression what you think when you look back across the Atlantic and you see your brothers and sisters here in the American church. I probably have a degree of sadness in the sense that America has been use the church in America has been used for extraordinary things globally. But as the years have gone by. It is become more centered on itself and almost feel sad because it's almost like it's afraid of its own existence. As if it's the center of the Christian world. But the center of Christianity different than other religions has never been confined to one location. It's always been polycentric weathers Alexandria or Antioch or Rome are moving on beyond that and so with the rise of the global South. I think God is not so concerned about the American churches as we are because he knows that his kingdom is advancing, and as we decline which I do think the American churches in decline. Unfortunately, I pray for one more great awakening are able, but God is not worried because the church abroad is thriving in the center is always moving, and God always has his missionary people and if we want rise to God's challenge show you somebody else so I understand that we're worried you guys know where you just fine and then I think boil it down from the American church we should just can't get over ourselves and in quit being so American center can be more gospel centric than we are politically centric. How how is God reaching people in the Muslim nations this. It's been amazing to watch this.

Yeah, I got a few shows on it but it really is amazing. So I think there's a couple key factors.

One of them would be media with access to the gospel with diaspora students.

So for example in the ribbon pencil.

So many of come to the West had good and bad experiences but had gospel exposure there going back now in the covert times. They were locked into their houses but they were consuming media and all kinds. Again, good and bad, you know, but just having more exposure so media is one way another really interesting thing is the global South God is using you remember the story of Naaman and how that little girl said there is a God in Israel they can heal you. So it's like little Filipino nurses its Eritrean housemaids is no Indian guys working on the streets that share the gospel with some rich and mere guys using unlikely people, and God using women, which we talked about yesterday on so you mentioned this before these three things in terms of reaching Muslims for Christ's love, truth and power, right, so power I would say dreams and visions. I got a gun show that actually was involved cross assembly years ago that absolutely miraculous story of visitation in his apartment when not that long before he actually gone to another city. This was in Pakistan to kill his sister. He got a follow-up from the locally mom because he believed that she had converted to Christianity and she had so that's happening this absolutely and and power counters are things that we can do. We can pray for sure but it could be a dream. It could be a healing.

It could be something that is just really dynamic where God shows up in a way that's not normal and so backing up let's I would love you as you mentioned this earlier just relationally love his relationship and this is that we are good people that serve our neighbors. We find a meet and we need and we meet it were not just coming into plunder and to take into convince people to be Americans know we're saying hey we love you we love you for who you are and we love you even if you never change your thinking because that's what people do.

We love people of kind of Jesus that we love others and then the truth component is and you have a great quote from Keller.

Maybe we'll revisit it, but my dad always said love without truth corrupts and truth without love kills and so we walk that fine line of we are proclaimers we are messengers. The Bible is very clear about that. We are town criers we have something to announce. And we have to do that courageously and with full conviction, and so we do want to get people to the Scriptures.

I'm not talking about truth is, in my testimony or my opinion. Who is Jesus. According the Gospels. What is a stand for that has to go out. So Muslims, when they come to Jesus, there's always been an interaction between the been loved.

Over time by someone who follows Jesus had exposure the word of God than the Holy Spirit does something that no man can you and I think I mentioned Hannah Shaheen earlier in one of the things that I learned from him which is fitting perfectly with what you're saying is he like if you think you're going to go be an apologist to get the Muslim to to disbelieve the Quran you're going down the wrong road. You don't want to pay any attention the ground. You want to get him into the Gospels and get him into learning about Jesus.

You absolutely because the Koran and some Islamic dogma. That's the point of highest resistance so we talk about an end run around that doesn't mean we don't ignore it has to be addressed. But when you come as a friend in younger playing racquetball with them are soccer and sharing meals and birthdays, letting them see that you generally care for them and their family. Then you can have more civil conversations about the points of this agreement. Now, now you're an English-speaking Caucasian Christian right in and ready are on the Arabian pencil of the other places that you been what are the expectations that Muslims have of us, but unfortunately they associate American Christianity with American power and I do think and I don't want to get into politics. That's your realm, but I do think the evangelical church in America has been seduced by power fall in love with it, which isn't really a gospel theme. You know, and so they see L a Bible you're even there they see on our money in God we trust. They see every American president say I'm a Christian and then stand for all kinds of things that may or may not be in the Bible and we have all of this lingo and trappings of Christendom to our culture. But then we export in their country's Hollywood movies and pornography and violence, whatever it might be in there like I don't get that because what they when they have exposure to Jesus seem so counter to how those who bear Christ name act. It is confusing and it is disturbing yet. So how do you kinda work around add-in and you have an easier out because you're actually not predominately American Christian. I don't know what sub-Saharan Christian, but for us in America that that work with Muslims have Muslim neighbors or no Muslims are going to encounter Muslims on travel. How how would you suggest we approach the insertion point can be arbitrary, and what I mean by that.

Back to those three encounters. Sometimes a Muslim has a dream before.

Christian loves on them. Sometimes it's a Christian walks across the aisle in the office or in the supermarket and says hello says hey can I invite you over to lunch and I remember I live in the Arab world there to say no. The first three times because they don't think your Syria so there is persistent hospitality hospitality and honor are the love languages honor them through legitimate conversation. Invite them to your home. Go take a plate of cookies cross the aisle cross the street cross over the next was space that's between you and them and just be kind. Be loving, be good, be friendly and then look for opportunities we don't have to. The Arab world will have to hide it were Bible Jesus people they talk religion all the time tonight, so introduce yourself wheat wheat we teach our guys. The first three minutes talk about Jesus. Yeah they go because they're expecting you're an American. There are you're going identify as a Christian, or your your Anglo-Saxon identifies a Christian up so just like elephants in the room I zone it early on such an important point that they talk about religious things anyway.

And I think we we assume that's not true in America but I think the same thing here talking to Dick frogs in the sleep noble Steve noble to be with you today to changing topics. Nothing so American centric talking about something that is central to the gospel to be God or self crawler Jesus Christ evangelical whatever denomination you're in that our primary perspective. Our primary purpose is all about glorifying God and seeing the kingdom growth through evangelism and discipleship, and the gospel itself.

Okay where ambassadors are here at Dick Brogdon talk about his many years on the on the mission field specially with Islamic countries and in that perspective. I often say this here Dick. This happened several years ago on the yes politics is important, but the gospel's preeminent and in America we tend to flip it upside down her neck like politics is all about the gospel which is in excess an extension of gospel living in the gaps gospel mindset but is not central to our lives going on a mission trip which we are just talk about in the break really starts to unlock a much bigger picture as a Christian as I tell people render adjustments in this get the heck out of America soon as you can go get your compass adjusted and things you think it's untrue North, but we don't have any perspective when all you do is live here in America and nothing that every American Christian is slacker and were all wrong.

But most of us are pretty often gospel in evangelism but yesterday's message across assembly by the way, for those of you in the Raleigh area. Pastor Chad Harvey if you want to pastor that's gonna kowtow to don't go there if you want a pastor that's going to hold back on some tough issues yet don't go there if you want to pastor that's afraid of his congregation don't go there if you are interested in the reverse side of all three listings going constantly. So but that was a really powerful message yesterday. It was deeply disturbing in convicting for me as a man, and incredibly encouraging for Christian women. But let's start with the guys throw us under the bus first just got unpacked a little bit in terms of what our responsibility as you talk about Abraham and Sarah on what happened there with Hagar, but but what was kind of the thrust of the message yesterday permit because most of the guys listening to in here so as we look at the world and we have 3.15 billion people who never heard the gospel in a way they can understand congregated and 7000 distinct as the linguistic people groups. We have the obvious need for more people to share the gospel among some. It's interesting in Jesus strategy of all the things he could've said. He said pray to the Lord of the harvest to send forth laborers to give us a five-point plan for said pray to send more people so we desperately need more of God's people from all the world not just America. I mean we need Latinos, Africans, Asians, Europeans, all in chubby full-court press here with the reality, though, on the ground is outside of the couples who of course is a one-to-one ratio.

It's about a seven sometimes attend to one ratio of single women versus single men.

There is a dearth of single men on the field and so we see this administered in most churches is truth. Yet Moses serves were absolutely the guys are kind of slack in here if I can be honest and there's an abdication of spiritual responsibility that I see in many Christian marriages. I see that carrying over into admissions who tends to pray for missions who tends to be excited and go to the mission services it doesn't tend to be the men there wanting to build careers. There wanted to be preeminent this for the other. They don't lose their life and take up their cross amongst the nation, so the thrust of it was we need more missionaries on the field and whose volunteering are not the men and if I can be frank with you because your Frank guy what we tend to get are the cast-off guys what this guy couldn't do a nice radio show and this guy couldn't pastor and this guy couldn't a good athlete. This guy kind that we don't know what to do with them. So this blessed Pakistan with Joe because we don't know where to find a health so we can to get I'm being a little now.

I'm going to get the dregs of the guys, where are the warriors were the captains of industry where the guys that are in high demand in anything any field any services that go to the field. They don't tend to and there's a variety of reasons for that, but that's not godly. God sent his best God sent his son, God sent his only son, so we want men on the field and then not stepping up so that's kind of the agony of the cry and how did you use the story of Abraham and Sarah Jessica Genesis 16 what I see and that is Abraham basically abdicated his responsibility. Sarah takes charge. Things go wonky and there's all kinds of pain, so applying that to the world.

I really do think men are responsible to lead the home spiritually that the families the fabric of society that transferred over into global missions. Men are responsible to take spiritual authority of the gospel being proclaimed to all the demonic powers, and all the false religions, and we got a go to battle its wartime and many to lead the charge yeah and there is one aspect of term of the book that I was in what was kind of Satan and his demons talking about close countries versus open country that you do not quit thinking that I was really power yet so this is the cry of the world by jails. Will Smith use a pastor up in Toronto years ago. Great missions pastor and he makes this scenario up of the devil, talking to his minions and saying hey we've got to keep the missionaries out of our close countries like Afghanistan, like Saudi Arabia, like Libya because we understand biblical prophecy, the devils talking you and the gospel must be preached. All the nations and Jesus won't come back until that's done. So we have the strongholds.

Who cares how many Christians are getting saved in America or Nigeria or Kenya where I was born and grew up. I love those places, but the devil in the snares and who cares as long as we keep them out of these bastions.

Jesus doesn't come back were good. Yeah what were staving off our eventual defeat. Correct. You might by keeping these countries close such a powerful reminder but but then women, which the Bible is got incredible testimony about godly women in the obvious. Eve seen this on the field is godly women do most of the work on the mission field of God is using women to draw Muslims to himself. It was just really encouraging for women to hear that all absolutely.

If we look at their core submissions history we've got lionesses out there who've done amazing things guys use them in leadership and God will continue to use that we see that all through the Bible, God is doing extraordinary things doesn't mean that men don't need to step up and fill that responsibility right so what I firmly believe is not less women just more men we need to have the full complement of all of God's people with all of God's gifts across all of God's ages and both genders that are vibrantly representing him there so yeah and it was not really encouraging to hear some of those stories that there there there women because what choices got have over there right now.

Better just leading people to Christ which I mean from it. We look at us from a guy's perspective on my power, okay I get that I can check the box truth. I deftly get that one. But the whole love thing like building relationships or hospitality seems like most of us guys probably are not as strong. They are correct and that is a key role in think I can do some nontraditional things. I can't tell good stories earned until yesterday so I started in the early 90s Mauritania you know most cultures quite segregated in the genders. The girls hang out with the girls guys hang out the guys, so a lady shows up and she's the extrovert. Her husband is a computer engineer right but she's like I want to talk to the men I know that the the guards of society and might my team leaders like well you know we don't really do that here on top of that she's culturally clueless. She's wearing tight clothes and pay close tight jeans. She smokes like a gym last year under the community like rubbish and smoke, you probably should wrap up depression like no I'm not going to change. This is who I am and I want to talk to them and what we all thought she was crazy right. She goes out to this remote village starts walk around the neighborhood. She only talks meant. Long story short, that crazy woman led 12 men to the Lord and saw them saving the enemy begin to reach her family. So God's doing unusual things we can put it in a box yeah that's and that's that's we like to do that we liked were so formulaic about things. I don't know what it's like in the in the church outside of America but in America you plan your work. Work your plan ever so formulaic, and this is the way it's got a go only got to be culturally sensitive and I understand that and where are called to be discerning and wise and wise observed in general is it but that's a great example of going even when you mess it up. The Holy Spirit is constrained, correct by our sin and brokenness and foolishness you have. I would say this of God accuse her dumb stuff just think what he could?

If we approach this without discretion with wisdom with cultural sensitivity, God will be even more so a great point. What, in terms of like a timeline of building relationship and seeing Muslims come to faith and again this is a problem for us in America because you mentioned earlier you can't microwave discipleship, but I think we try to microwave evangelism. We do share the gospel to give you the Roman road I'll give you little track and then I'm so persuasive that they think it's a vast what's the deal. I guess they're just not part of the elect and move on over there. I'm sure is there a way you think is like an average amount of time that you need to be willing to invest all absolutely just to see one person come to the Lord because we have studies on this.

It takes about five years and multiple relation so let's say you have a Muslim friend and your kind in your loving your truthful.

We talked about the stereotypes before right there. Like all men. Steve's a nice guy and he doesn't sleep around and he is grace filled and he speaks the truth. But I know what Christians are like I know what Americans like he's the exception right then they meet me. Then they meet Bob and Amy at the knees and they meet Chad. Then they meet all these other guys like they all speak the truth. They all loved their all full of grace. Wait a second, they can't all be exceptions. There has to be something common and it's not what's in Steve and it's now it's in Dick there's something else here. There's a greater power at work that's and all of those guys who is that what is that how do I get that. That just takes time and it takes years and multiple relationships often for most of the Lord, do you have to admit it's really interesting in Islam because you know nice places a little bit in Africa like what I hate you. You were Muslims and so were cut down Moses working to down with Abraham, Jesus, to and you know great great men of God and so you have this kind a natural affinity that I think a lot of us Christians don't even understand there already ill get their monotheistic correct think were a little wacky with the Trinitarian things that I think we have to remember that there's probably some bridges there that we don't even know if this only talk about that we come back.

I deftly want to sound the challenges issued yesterday. Specifically for us guys that they could do that in a couple of things we have time or talking to Dick Brogdon who was on the mission field have been his entire life. Specifically, now the last 20+ years in the Muslim world.

This is the noblest reasonable shelves were not talking about America today and over magazine noblest is a big frog in new friend. He spoke yesterday at cross assembly church here in Raleigh stuck with me forever. That is a very nice answer yesterday talking about this kind of omissions focus across assembly right now here in Raleigh and just gave a great message yesterday out of Genesis 16 talk about Abraham and Sarah and Abraham, abdicating his responsibility as a man. It was a very convicting messages message for us guys but very encouraging ladies for you so if you go to out across assembly website which you can still get there to go to RFA.org, but over there and you can watch the message from yesterday on Facebook live as well. Really, really powerful and in very challenging but also very encouraging and so that's what got just worked it out that that they could be with us today. I was asking where talk little bit about on the break and then I want to finish with a challenge for men specifically at the show but let's talk about this effort live debt. I love that and I think we need to remember this but again just reminds how Beckett started in, what does it imply for all of us in terms of lifestyle.

Sure, we talked earlier about how we need missionaries and I think we've kind of emasculated the missions appeal. What I mean by that is, we focus on social justice issues.

Orphanage sex trafficking hunger water. Those are kind of feminine appeals. I'm not saying the wrong but they're kinda from the maternal compassion outside. So why are we kinda surprised we get all the ladies a respond.

We found we have to call men to war right and when we look at the places that remain for the gospel to penetrate the easy places are gone, what's left to us both Libya and Syria.

It's Iraq is North Korea Somalia so we were working in northern Sudan.

God was blessing us some fruit and my boss guy named Greg Beggs great man.

He said Dick would you help us pioneer in some of the difficult places we need to put people in Somalia. We don't know if they'll come back for years.

We were reluctant to even consider Mogadishu in our strategy because we could send him we didn't know if we get him back in other places like Eritrea.

Maybe the most Marxist country in the world are no other places that are tough. So as I was designing this program and trying to expand our church planting teams to difficult places. I was realizing we have to mobilize men and women to do this, but I want to be honest. So how do we present a challenge and say this is important, but it's gonna cost you something. It's gonna cost you in the first levels of language and leaving home and living in hot climates where regimes are oppressive.

It might also cost you your freedom might cause your very life. So I met with the gal Jerry Reeves. She's a marketer, fantastic, and I explained our dilemma.

I say we want to mobilize next-generation but to do hard things and maybe even to die for Jesus. How do we Howdy you help wanted ad writing the worst places on the planet friend. I and the Lord will crest and that night and gave her this term live dead. It's based on Galatians 220 am crucified with Christ. I no longer live is based on Dell John 1224, unless a green reef on the ground and die remains alone, but both those verses and victoriously Christ living in me very much great so we we talk about live dead. Both components equally. You're going to have to die to self and you might even die physically. My go to prison. Minor come back that's true that's part of the cost.

We also live so let's live like we already die in the joy of the Lord pay whatever price is necessary for Jesus to be glorified amongst hundreds yet. I think it's a hard thing for us American men to think of and in one of one of my friends on Facebook live earlier was like well you know men have to provide yeah I know the Bible restart on that Amanda does provide for his family is worse than a believer and is pretty strong language, but when it comes to omission thrust and this comes back to us fathers and as leaders in the church right now as well. Maybe at soon to be 55 with four kids and everything I've got. Maybe now as of the season for me to go but but how am I commissioning other younger men. So should we be focusing on the younger generation right now in terms of generating a live dead type mentality amongst younger people because there are some churches that are really church leaves to go to does a great job of hate. You know it when you get a college get your don't give your procedures to your career. Give your first two years to the Lord and go go on a mission field go somewhere where the gospel we need think the gospel should we be focusing more on younger guys or doesn't matter.

I think there's validity to that, but I would say it's a both and so with young guys. You get energy the ability to learn language to embed in the context grow up with the country and see an indigenous church evolve over time. On the other hand, what were seeing in the Arabian Peninsula is men and women are getting saved and asking theological questions.

They're asking life questions asking mayors questions.

We also need people with life experience maturity with theological backgrounds so it's not an either/or. Yes, we need the young we need that energy but we need the wisdom of age. We need both of those caps yeah and so what what what is, what would be a minimum acceptable standard for somebody that wants to hit the foreign mission field bit safer. Otherwise, I would first say that there's nothing magic on airplanes right so if you're not doing stuff here you're not gonna do it over there in a different language and culture with a gun pointed at your head right so the minimum thing is we want people here radically love with Jesus. We don't want people who are doing programmatic things are formulaic things because you know what that last year few months maybe a few years at the best, but that runs out over there if you aren't on fire for Jesus if you don't have a fire in your being to know him and make him known all your other mechanisms don't take you very far. We want people to love Jesus and we want people to make disciples in their own culture. People that have gone through that process and it is a process. It's not just Noah headed out trash or streaks are going through a process and seeing if possible second generational growth you lead someone to the Lord and disciple them so well that they can lead someone to the Lord. If those two things are in place and 1/3 thing is if you have high trust in the sovereignty of God that is good no matter what happens I just be honest in the places where we need missionaries. Bad stuff happens every day all the time. You have to have a rocksolid confidence in God is called you and that he's good in everything that he allows to happen sovereignly good people have that X factor. They make it through all kinds of junk. People who don't have that like oh I thought this was going be fun. I thought this was going to be easy.

I thought this would be fruitful in week 3.you know and they don't have the grit to push you on that. So I would say love Jesus make disciples hi sovereignty of God, understanding, and that some solid material that can be worked as the mission field bleeding missionaries right now it is attrition is high. The average length of missionaries stay for those who go to the unreached world is seven years and declining.

You can hardly do squat in seven years if I can crank.

Why is that we have kind of commercialized it.

We've kind of turned it into missions tourism. Our theology is weak.

We've lost understanding of suffering.

You gotta go beat your head against the stone wall of Satan for decades to see breakthrough in unreached people groups and honestly fighting me just Frank, Steve, I don't know if the American churches producing the grit that we need right for this type of stuff that happened while I look at that in the American culture in general is a if we had to face another World War II what would happen and partly a good chunk of me says we would lose. Now that doesn't take away from what the human spirit is capable of when properly motivated when caring but that is the thing that I don't know because we we we been kinda cushy here in America now or get a little bit of pushback on the relative to the rest the world will nothing, but it's something in our context, and I think that's a great point that are we really raising up a generation that not only might might have a warriors mentality but are actually equipped theologically to deal with that ended in to be able to be a good apologist for mission and let me add one thing I have a buddy he's actually a worker in Libya. He says this. You have no idea what you can do if you are filled with the Holy Spirit. We all have limitations were all broken. So all those pieces that were talked about and then know the book of acts. The empowering work of the Holy Spirit that helps us do what we would be able to do in our natural strength of body mind bill is on Facebook live right now is big and mentoring for years with mentor Lincoln. He wants to connect the saga to get Skip to talk about change the mission model. Don't send someone train the local phenom being an American again and I'm assuming the real answer is to get more Americans on the mission. But that isn't the answer is part of the answer because this thank you for the comment that works where there's Christian presence.

All right, Kenya. Great work. South Korea great works all right what about North Korea.

Yet, what about places where there are no present what about, there's no one to train. So yes, absolutely. The growth of it did exponential growth is indigenous people. Local people absolutely agree. What if there are none. There's still the role for catalytic presence that apostolic witness to go where nothing is see those first believers, and in that hell, I would agree is sometimes our role is to be more of a Barnabas to Nepal will find your Paul part of us. When found and brought them and pulled the great things where there are no pulse. Go find one disciple him let that man or that woman lead his whole people to Jesus and beyond. But there has to be a catalytic start somewhere where nothing exists now when there's nothing it's just like a war effort.

You actually have to invade first and then you can establish board bunkers and horn operations, and then you can start dealing with the local environment, but it's both and you been great on that throughout the whole show we have a minute and maybe two minutes left. So let's circle back around to just a personal challenge for the men and if you want to slip in an encouragement to the women, just in general and our leadership of what God calls us to. First of all I wanted for Mormon. I am married to an incredible missionary. My mother was incurable missionary women of God have done amazing things we would not be where we are without amazing courageous went to the men I would say spiritual mandate is refers to missions. Is this number one you need to lead the way in prayer. You need to let your family, your wife, your children see you weep over the nations. We are congratulatory culture, we set ourselves on the back were talked about numbers art we create, where the greatest you know, world champion Super Bowl. What were the one country that plays a sport right you announce ourselves as will champions right but the man have to split that the women see the tender heart of God expressed through us through prayer agonizing in front of our families leading our families to pray. So I challenge men up your prayer life. In unreached people's second thing I would say is, assuming you're already tithing men could you type IInd 10% towards missions. Could you sell gun trouble yesterday will sell your guns on dollar yellow and then go we need meant to go we need mentor to lead the charge where war we need warriors you guys to take some tough ground men lead the way in prayer and for some of us it's it's training and leaving the younger ones.

But God might call us older guys like to switch tracks and that's where you have to be on think we should be a lot more imaginative and a lot more crazy because the Lord is given at school amazing story is Eli can never do that. Actually I think that is a necessarily go look where workwear looks impossible for mankind and I'm pretty sure you got addicted so great to have you and think if people want to support.

Find out more@theirwebsitelive.org live Z.work.

I love that lived at.org dictating so much for being here again this is Steve Noble to Steve Noble showed God willing, we'll talk again real soon and like my dad always used to say ever for


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