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The Bible and Racism

The Steve Noble Show / Steve Noble
The Truth Network Radio
June 18, 2020 3:41 pm

The Bible and Racism

The Steve Noble Show / Steve Noble

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June 18, 2020 3:41 pm

The Bible and Racism

Today we are joined by the acclaimed Dr. Danny Akin the President and Dean of SEBTS.  We discuss the real issue of racism and the church’s response and how we as Christians should see each other on a personal level and not on a racial level. 


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Wake up everyone just time for this noble show where biblical Christianity meets the everyday issues of life in your home, at work, and even in politics.

Steve is an ordinary man who believes in an extraordinary God it on a show, there's plenty of grace and lots of true but no sacred calls 866-34-TRUTH 866-34-TRUTH or check them out online, Steve Noble now there's your host Steve Noble to get away from right down the river. We sell our piece right on the river because we just gauge and what's going on in the world and there is a challenge there. There's attention. There is always going to exist until Jesus comes back that I long for that. There in the then most of the days now just like okay Lord now would be a good time get on out here. Let's just be done with this mess. But of course that's neglecting the need to continue to share the gospel and I still know a lot of people that don't know Jesus.

And if I my selfishness want to get out of here tomorrow there's a lot of people that I know personally that will be going with me and so that kind of restrains my desire to get it on over with. But one of the challenges that we have as we often think politically we get caught up in the noise and things that are going on during the day and we should do a certain extent be broken about that we live in the world we live in the here and the now we have to care about everyone around us because her buddies made in the image of God. It's that pro-life message from the womb to the tomb and all different spots and different types of people in between. And so you don't run away. You don't hide in the church. You don't just sit around and wait for Jesus to come. We have work to do in the here and the now so that's the tension that exists all dive into that today on theology Thursday as we come to consider, from a theological perspective will come at the races and differences in mankind and how God made us and how do we look at that.

What is racism from a theological biblical perspective and also partly how should we be be engaging. What's the role of the church in this moment in time and how do we do this inside the church because there's two different issues here.

There's the outside lost culture which is one perspective and a different type of field and then there's how we handle it inside the body of Christ. So we'll talk about all that today our good friend Dr. Danny Aiken the present in the Southeastern Baptist theological seminary back in the house on theology Thursday as it is every Thursday I go to see again, these are have you seen any kind of confusing dark strange days like we are in now know I am now 63 and so I've been around a while I went to the 60s and 70s 80s 90s into the current and know there's more confusion.

There's more anger there is just more hostility, at least in America than any time in my lifetime and I'm more and more convinced with each passing moment that our only hope is the gospel of Jesus Christ because he breaks down barriers. He heals relationships.

He gives us the ability to see people as he sees people in every human being.

There's ever been on this planet is someone that our Lord dearly loves and cares for and doubt that a core should be our heart and we can get that heart. We have a proper relationship with him so more than anything in our nation is desperately in need of the gospel right now yeah and unfortunately and I think this is even sometimes in the church. When we say what we really need is the gospel for a lot of people. That sounds dismissive. It sounds trite, it sounds simple and and because we can say that in just a few words.

A lot of people dismiss it, but ultimately whether were talking from a political perspective, a social economic perspective of police brutality perspective of false charges perspective the way we look at people that look differently than us. The gospel really is the great solution. The great salve over all of that yes is that the only thing that takes all the issues out and focuses it on Jesus and that's the only way ever find unity anyway. But I would agree that the gospel is simple.

I would be humanly disagree that it's trite and the fact is flowing out of the gospel are all sorts of implications, such as the fulfilling of the two great commandments to love God supremely and to love your neighbor generally and so we start talk about the implications of the gospel and what naturally flows out of that right relationship with Jesus Christ. It impacts everything it impacts every every single issue that we encounter in a fallen, broken world, and it provides the answer and it provides the solutions yeah I knit and and there are other issues going on, but the one thing that can invade all those issues and give you a correct perspective and the help of the Holy Spirit is the gospel itself. Without that, you're kind of just flailing around and then you can make some progress where some truth exists, but ultimately it's all about the gospel. I will talk about that today, as we as we can finish the show today and what's our role right now.

What should we be focusing on. But I do want to ask just finishing a totally bizarre semester because he hasn't got Cova 19 as well so graduation then this summer and in the fall gives an update.

Well, we did not have a graduation ceremony, but we had a celebration online where we did recognize all of the my graduates by name. Running it down a scroll all the challenge I had sued something of a short.again, celebration, and it was a great celebration where one of our largest graduating classes in our history. We passed the 5000 student Mark Bashir now again will be clear with our numbers are like people that fudge we now have the ability to train high school students all the way through PhD so we have a large partnership special with Christian schools throughout North Carolina so that we have close now, Steve two 800 students that are in high school and their dual enrollment to enroll. So there finishing up high school and also taking classes that will count for college credit. And as I realized in and point out most of them I will not come to Southeastern but we get a chance to instill our DNA in them wherever they go. They go to Duke or State or Caroline are outside of the state. We are having a chance to infuse the Southeastern DNA in them as far rejoice in that at the same time our colleges growing our seminaries growing our graduate programs on the PhD EDD D mid-level or growing so will probably end up this academic year.

A little over 5100 students, which again is 12th or 13th year of of record enrollment summer is one of our largest may be our largest summer enrollment ever again.

Right now everything is being done online, but we've announced recently that we will be returning to campus in the fall will be offering both on-campus classes and online classes. Furthermore, we have cut tuition across the board.

5% to try to help students. I would also say anyone considering Southeastern talk to us will help you pursue every available scholarship Avenue out there, so we're ready to TPN again probably still activates with just a thought or the other schools but were moving full speed ahead for the fall, thoughts, and so when we come back with Dr. Aiken will continue to dive in this conversation and I know that you're thinking I'm so tired of hearing about this retarded hearing about mainstream Bible as theology Thursday with her friend, thereby land the heels of a deity within all the things going on here at seminarian programs for not just college students and seminary students, graduate students, but also high school students SE is the website that's an easy way to go get that can information for things that you can do online if you just do SE\radio you'll see all kinds of things that you can access online, but there are a lot of things there that will be a blessing to you. It's had just a monstrous impact on my walkway as a Christian, and especially with what I do on the air and in other places.

It's just been every minute I spent in class, and every minute I spent really engaging with the material engaging with my professors at the there's really been things in my life where I knew at every moment that I was being fed and that I was going making leaps and bounds forward, but my time Southeastern was exactly like that so it still pay paying dividends today so SE\radio or just a regular website right. Let me just throw something that's of them will get into this conversation with Dr. Aiken and 2019. Pew research Center reported that a majority of Americans say race relations in the United States are bad, and of those about seven in 10 say things are getting worse.

By 1860 little history here, the United States was divided into slave and free states that your census takers counted 3 to 3.95 million slaves in America. Slavery was legal in America until 1865 in the adoption. The 13th amendment. However, segregation in schools is not made illegal, until Brown versus the Board of Education and 54 Jim Crow laws enforcing segregation were overturned by the civil rights act of 64 and the voting rights at 65 study show that racism persists in America today, a black ministry times more likely to be searched. The traffic traffic stop in six times more likely to go to jail with the white man is pause right there.

Because here's what I always do with these numbers. I always think I mediums being honest with everybody. I immediately going. I merely go to okay let's look at the crime rates in the African-American community. I said this with Walter Strickland last Thursday must say it again right now I'm saying it to myself.

We need to lament first. First I got before I get a calculator before I go Fox news before I go to Facebook or twitter or whatever. When we see things going on that are breaking certain parts of society. Whether you're black or white or whatever, let's remember we should lament first. Do we have a heart that breaks easily of a black person kill the white person he or she is twice as likely to receive the death sentence as a white person who kills a black person black serve up to 20% more time in prison.

The white people for the same crimes black 38% more likely to be sentenced to death in white people for the same crimes by the way, see the movie just mercy which is true.

An incredible story and it will give you a view of things that have been going on in the South and still do. Racism persists in America's churches as well.

Only 32% of white pastors strongly agree that my church is involved with racial reconciliation at the local level. 53% of African-American pastors strongly agree with this statement, which means on average. The majority of churches where really doing anything, engaging with only 56% of evangelicals believe that people of color are often put in a social disadvantage because the race whereas 84% of Blacks Christians agree with that statement. So we have a lot of disparity and a lot of things going on there. I know everybody's got a little bit of a fatigue on the subject, but it is happening. It continues to happen were supposed to be salt and light in this world. So that's why it's important. I will continue to talk about. So where we kinda start from a theological perspective. Danny and and as we dive into a conversation about race and places will I think we have to start with our understanding of the doctrine of God. The doctor creation and the doctrine of humanity or anthropology.

And of course he begins where the Bible begins in Genesis 1 and two, and what we learned there is that all ethnicities and actually I prefer that for a yes more than I do. Race because race is more of a modern construct a social construct. Now I realize that we use it in popular language today and it has certain meanings and connotations that are going to go away. So I'm still use the word in conversations that I have but I think the word ethnicities fits better because here's were going every ethnicity regardless of skin pigmentation or gossip location on the earth has a primordial parent that is the same Adam and Eve. That's why the doctor creation and the historicity and the reality of Adam and Eve basically is a death nail or racism from the very start. So we understand that God created one parent. Adam and Eve the entire human race has flowed from our primordial parents and every single person bears the image of God. Equally completely and fully.

This is where, tragically, some of our Southern Baptists forefathers that were white. That there were slave owners and some who were not slaveowners still believed in the inherent inferiority of the African-Americans and in some sense even believe that they did not fully bear the embargo date will that is a heresy that is a false teaching every person red, yellow, black, brown and white all bear the image of God. So all are important and valuable because of that, and secondly I think you have to move quickly and rightly to the doctrine of redemption and there we understand that God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son so every ethnicity, every people group is valuable to God and they are those for whom Christ died. So, both by creation and redemption. We see every human being as an equal imager of God and every human being. As someone for whom Jesus died. Therefore, if every body is valuable to God in that way for those of us that claim Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

They should be valuable to us in exactly the same way you on the challenge. There is a Savior watching the news today to watch protestant and protestant riot arrives in looting and everything else is listed in the flesh. I mean, I thought all kinds of horrendous things about what I'm watching, and specifically who I'm watching and you have to remember that I'm so glad you brought that up because we have to always correct ourselves so in my mind and and perhaps sometimes in conversations within the body of Christ so much outside the body of Christ talk about hate were all one race which again in the greater culture will sound trite like were trying to push things aside, it is important for us to remember this foundational foundational's creation. It's the Muggle day that the district budget one and I say this all the time.

Listen, you put us under a microscope and were not about 99.8% saying exactly how pigmentation is different and that's about it. Yet you cut a sleepily read the way were created is the same and so it's important to remember that that where looking external differences not know much of anything else but on the ethnicities thing is important, but we only determine that. So when I look at this and I see people looting.

My flesh is one reaction scumbags. Whatever might my spirit has another reaction that I'm looking at a manifestation almost exclusively, but not always of lostness yes people that are broken, loss angered looking for meaning, is why so many people. I think wired really jumping in on the protests. It has the semblance of of deep meaning in many ways it does, but their people without meaning right in there just lost like Jesus looks out at the masses in weeks absolutely like sheep without a shepherd. I look out the masses.

In a generally separate them in groups. That's a problem.

It's just part of our sin nature know you're exactly right when we look at what's going on, especially with the start, we want to the horrific killing of a black man with a police officer's neck knee on his neck.

We should absolutely amend and call that a crime and asked for justice to be rendered. But when we see someone looting we see someone riding when we see someone stealing I may understand what kind of fraud on the rage and by the same token again.

On the one hand, I see this criminal and wrong, and demanding justice at the other time at the other hand, I realize you're lost just lost people red, yellow, black, white, crowns are going to act like most people, that's right, and that we serve a God of justice.

Justice errata availability Thursday with her seminary, a good friend, Dr. Danny Aiken is the president of the seminary in the house with us today as were taken.

A theological perspective which should be our first and main perspective on every topic we ever talk about.

I try to do that with the other days of the week on the show as well, as we kinda dive into this pool that were all in right now. Talk about racism and racial reconciliation. The role of diversity in the church.

The old quote about Sunday being the most segregated day of the week you got all that stuff folded in there. Then there's the news of the day, there's the police there's government, there's the movement there's black lives matter to so many different it's like a big diamond with a whole lot of different facets except this one is a very beautiful but yet that's we have to come at this a little bit at a time. You do not eat an elephant in one bite. Okay, it's one find.

This is a big L is a huge elephant and I remind people off and that he, Jesus said the poor you will have with you always, which was not Jesus saying, don't worry about the poor.

No, not at all, the whole of Scripture screams for the church to engage the poor downtrodden, the outside or the fatherless, the widow, all of Scripture screams for that and this of course falls under that under that understanding.

So we have to continue to kinda fight to keep our biblical worldview and her theology straight on this so that we can be the salt and light, that this world and right now our country so desperately needs.

So as we kinda going to this is, it is important for us in the as Christians trying to speak of the culture do we need to deal with the slavery that existed in the Old Testament and the New Testament or second of a distraction for the sake of dealing with the issue of racism itself, but I think we can't deny it, and we should not ignore it. We should recognize that in a full reading of the Bible, God's word does not ordain slavery offered people say what the Bible legitimizes slavery.

No it does not of the Bible regulates it and where it regulates it.

It is almost perfect. I would say, without exception, trying to protect the disenfranchise or protect those that found found themselves in a slight position. Furthermore, you be very clear. It was never race-based in the Bible. Slaves came in all sorts of colors and usually it was baseball him, having been conquered by a power in and in the warfare contacts but we look at the New Testament is very clear that the impulse is toward abolishing slavery in that first Corinthians 7, Paul's very clear if you are able to gain your freedom. Gain it.

That's certainly what God's design is for Linda Philemon. He's no longer a slave, he is your brother, and therefore you should treat him as your brother and Bessie.

Paul says you need to let him go. But you know what if he owes you something, but to my account course I love Paul's wife. I will bring up the fact that you omit your very soul, which is kind of the back way of coming images whacked on him upside the head.

But again, in essence, he's telling Philemon on this mess is your brother you should treat him like your brother, you don't enslave your brother. So I found the Scriptures to be very helpful in terms of their impulse in that direction so that be the first thing that I would point out when we look at this issue. Biblically, they would look at it historically and again for up people to cite well slavery ended in 1865 yes and no. Officially, legally, it did, but were blessed church southeastern Brent O'Quinn teaches history here about his PhD work was in post-Civil War history in America and I've heard him lecture a number of times and Steve in some context. In fact, many contacts black retreated as poorly if not worse. Following the end of the Civil War, and if so we need to recognize that there is a long history of racism and prejudice and bigotry that the memory should not be kicked to the curb. We should recognize it's still pretty close in terms of our history that has to be taken into account.

I think that's the compassionate side that we have. If you're if you're not a darker hue than we should have compassion because we say that was the past that I'm going to do it that well. I don't think anybody would deny that your own past matters. Your own pastors had an impact on you and people talk about what you know. What about your ancestors that adopted Emily. Quite frankly, I don't know much about my ancestors and that I can't ignore it. I think when we try to ignore the brush in the table. That's the part I'm not can it cause somebody to stumble in this conversation by dying on that hill brother Kenny to die that ability. It's ridiculous only course in part of the issue is among trying to win an argument or my trying to win someone to Christ and in my trying to engage people in a way that will be beneficial to our culture and our society at large.

I'd rather do that than when an REI can win an argument and make no ground pressure and lose ground. I can lose ground on this and again and I don't want to play point. Point counterpoint of the culture of exhaust which I could do was let me is that you love smart phones somebody smart phones talking to us right now I don't lose merchant that you might know it's my trying to kill it and there you go there he goes there's a toilet rise I would find likely counterpoint.

People talk about slavery in the past. All all all usually something Facebook like just remind it. We actually have more slavery today than we did. Then around the world. Not here in America. Specifically, although I can make a case for the prison system but that's only a conversation around the world. This is where you have to be holistic and have to be in actually honest and gawky word.

This is like black lives matter to the matter in the will of the only matter outside the womb. All that said, those are all conversations that you have to wait and that stuff and be willing to talk but that's not what we're doing today what about just racism in general. Specifically, New Testament teaching.

We have a church coming together in the first century you got Jews and Gentiles.

Yes, you have rich people, poor people you have slaves and free people. You have Roman centurions and you have people under the boot of Rome, even in Jesus's inner circle. You have a cell at your tax collector who I can imagine what their little campfire site empire chats were like. But how do we kind of approach racism from that New Testament early church perspective will I think first of all, again in this not simplistic. We recognize that the gospel is the key to breaking down all barriers no matter what those barriers may be.

Secondly, we have to recognize it even though we redeem Steve were still of dealing with the vestiges of sin and were having to fight both internally in our hearts. To overcome those vestiges of sin and were having to fight in our culture and society. To overcome those vestiges of sin. I wish with all of my heart that we could bring in the full manifestation of the kingdom of God right now where you and I are sitting here in white fourth North Carolina in 2020, but it's not gonna happen. It won't happen in that perfect sense until the king of kings and the Lord of lords, the Prince of peace returns. Having said that we find for it now because that's where we're headed.

Then furthermore, we can't rightly live under his Lordship and be a collectively Russell Moore described it an outpost of the kingdom unless were living like citizens of the kingdom, and, of course, that then recognizes that we all come together. I love you stated this way is one big family of worshiping the same father adoring the same savior indwelt by the Holy Spirit. We are a family and the course then the key is that we care for one another. We love one another and we treat one another black family, which also means very practically and again I keep coming back to this again and again and again I need to as a white male 63 years of age. I need to work at listening more than I talk I need obey. James 119 where it says be swift to hear, slow to speak and I need to hear the heart cries and the pain and the sorrow and the suffering of persons of color if I'm going to love them well in Jesus night now that does not mean that I sit back and shut up. That's were I will push back very strongly against certain aspects of the black life movement where there's basically saying well is a white guy that you forfeit the right to say anything know I have the responsibility to speak truth in love. I have the responsibility to share the truth of the gospel and the word of God and so I will listen more, but I would be unloving to completely shut myself down and not speak into the issues that were trying to deal with at this particular moment in time in our history. I talked to I had a guest on this a babbling baby is kind of blown up and she was on Laura Ingram. The other nights is up female African-American evangelist she's been waiting right into this, she was just in jazz in Seattle on Monday or Tuesday. She's engaging PP was there as there she walks into it with her buddy and she way walks right in there and she's engaging people of the gospel point people to Jesus. Also having political conversations. But the reason I noticed her a week ago was she put up a video chooses an outside appearance using hate white conservatives. Let me only talk to you for second I got my yes and she said why are you free to tell me the truth. Why won't you tell me the truth. You especially if you're my Christian brother sister, you owe me the truth.

So when I'm wrong and you know I'm wrong and you have the truth, then you owe it to me to tell me the truth don't hold the truth back because of the color of your skin is strong and that was really strong. It was a good reminder because I brought that up with her the other day she was just on yesterday I said yeah I think a lot of my white brothers and sisters because we get castigated often and so there's a lot of fear there fear ultimately is pride because you think about yourself right that if you really care about your neighbor and I'm talking specifically inside the body of Christ that you tell the truth know you better do that with a lot of grace and compassion and patience, but do not tell the truth about certain things that are affecting in this case the effort American culture. How do you ignore those that afflict the gospel to preach the full counsel of God have to little to be part of it that makes you feel good. The part that I know you will receive. Not good news.

Lesson abandons again. This all takes time requires relationship conversation yes it does with social media talking to Danny Aiken about racism will be right back not show theology Thursday with her good friend Southeastern Baptist theological seminary. Dr. Danny Aiken, the present dancewear, working our way through this issue of racism.

Again, don't don't don't have super high expectations for what can happen in 40 minutes on the radio noted I had to give that up years ago so I'm just chipping away. If you stay with it.

If you stay with the conversation. If you stay in this particular case with the show over time we come at it from a lot of different angles. I have a lot of difficult conversations or bring on a lot of different guys because I deftly don't know it all and and so you have to stay with it. That's where we have to stay engaged and again that's the lure of social media's you thinking come up with the perfect post perfect video the perfect Instagram the perfect meme, whatever. That's all a lie that takes us away from actually engaging each other which we deserve because were made in the image of God and were made for relationship. So don't ever said that wasn't idly literally I leave the studio every day.

Frustrated because I can't get to everything that needs gotten to but it's just impossible. And that's where my faith kick Senegal case D by the way that's not all resting on you. It's 40 minutes out of the day. Do we had that we have a good conversation do we make little progress. Did we glorify God. Yes, that praise the Lord. Go home, go see your family and quit whining, but I suspect it when we exit exit this world, we will leave a little frustrated I think. I did not get to everything and God remind us, as you just said well you know what I was doing fine before you showed up and I found after your gall. You did your part or a little very small period of time and that's what I expected. Thankfully with what I gave you at that time in the life that you were granted by dice them in the big picture is his and we get these little slippers and we should be grateful for them.

Okay so moving forward and engaging the issue of racism and I want to split it into first let's talk about how to engage culture which when I see the culture I'm stalking the loss. People and then what we do in the church and then should most of our attention beyond dealing with this issue in the church and maybe back off. What's going on in the culture little bit you know I mean because I think that's what we struggle with. So let's talk about how should we as Christians be communicating or witnessing to, or speaking into the culture and I mean the loss culture on this issue raises mostly what I want to begin where my heart is been recently again just trying to soak in the word of God in a particular verse, that the Lord keeps bringing to my heart and mind again and again and again is what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses his soul. If we were by some miracle able to resolve every race issue, but millions and millions and millions went to hell. We have gained nothing and did not profit them, so I will remind myself again and again and again that what matters most is the eternal destiny of every human soul that means that the most important thing I can do is share the gospel and love someone to Jesus. Nothing is more important than that nothing is more important than living out and fulfilling the great commission going into all the world and among all the nations make disciples.

Now I know the backside of the great commission. Teaching them to observe all that the Lord is commanded and so I realize that the most natural implications of the gospel are summarized beautifully. Thank you Lord Jesus and the two great commandments of loving God and loving my neighbor so I start with the gospel. I start with evangelism and I don't stop there, but I've got to start there and I worry about the church. This is what happened with the advent of the social gospel at the beginning of the 1900s well intended to make life better to raise the standard of living for everyone and again we can raise the standard of living for everyone and neglected their greatest need is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Furthermore, when they experience that these other things are just natural things that flow out of a healthy relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ.

A saving relationship is a better way of saying it.

So I think we've got to maintain, keep the first thing the first thing the main thing the main thing we don't neglect the other and we speak into them to the best of our ability. Whether it be racism or abortion, or gender issues of poverty are crime all those report every single one of them. Nothing is more important than me introducing someone to a saving relationship with God. The gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. Nothing. None of those last beyond the grave and accept the gospel itself in every every soul and that's why love what CS Lewis said never met a mere mortal. Everybody is either an everlasting splendor, or an eternal war exam where the other.

So when you look at the writing when you look at God what's going on when you look at a white cop with his knee in a black eye's neck. Remember you're looking at two eternal beings yet either an eternal word everlasting splendor either in Christ or their hell bound and so ultimately I think the devil loves to get us off that track because Hassan eternal win versus temporal things which are important because we love people.

The I think that's so important to remind ourselves nothing is more important than the gospel.

No racial reconciliation. Is it more important because no it's so important were okay so that that's that's outside the church or not. Inside the church well inside the church. Again the the core in the center has to be the gospel any geese. I will let simple it is.

But again, not when you realize that there are these natural implications that flow from the gospel. Now what to think we do a southeastern and again I came to this through my personal study through the book of the Revelation.

In particular, chapters 5 and seven were talked about in heaven.

There's a Lamb upon the throne and around that throne are people from every tribe and tongue people and nation worshiping him adoring him. It's what hit me one day. Well, all right. So that is what the eschatological the end time eternal church is going to look like audit not be the case that we're working right now to follow that model and to implement that to the degree that we can up to here on earth. And I think that's important. I've had some students that answer friends of pushback as it would then here's my problem. I live in an area that in terms of ethnicity is not enough percent youth on the black most of time here in America is Scott saying much. My area is 99% white, how in the world cannot be involved in building the church on earth.

It looks like the church in heaven, and my immediate response is well first of all, you should not limit yourself to just your immediate geographical vicinity. You can be involved in helping create churches on earth are like the church and haven't by being involved in North American missions by being involved in international missions by being involved in church planting is so you can take your resources and you can leverage them for getting the gospel to the underserved areas and the unreached areas of North America and around the world. You can be owned on mission to reach all the nations with the gospel. Even if you find yourself in a particular location. This will make that difficult, almost impossible for your particular local church. You need to be realize that what takes place inside the walls of the local church should not be left there. They should extend beyond their and there is no reason for it not to early on when one called experts that started in 2004 and I was all about the year the war that's out there.

The culture war and I was good at it because I have a bad attitude read self but the thing that happened early and I think it was because the very first day I became an activist.

I met Bishop would we became fast friends and so there was just the inclination that hey you know we will be fighting for all these things.

It's very white where my black brothers and sisters in wooden was my entre into that world. And so we started I started to meet a lot of black pastors and then after we did the harvest Crusade with Greg Laurie which was predominantly white is white evangelist rogue get but after that we did convoy of hope, which was downtown, inner-city Raleigh, there were 70 churches involved in it was specifically to so we serve 6000 poor people probably 80% of them were black in the city and at all the different churches and that's where. To me it was let's put some white hands and some black hands believers and let's go do some ministry together together and so I can't maybe grab you and bring you to my church over there in lily white part of town. Whatever. But let's go do some things together because that's good for our souls. It's a good representation of the kingdom, because I also learned at some point that when it comes to the kingdom of God in the new heaven and the new earth me as a white skinned redhead I want to be a spot in the buttermilk. Most of the church doesn't look like us worldwide no starker but anyway I'm like, let's go do some things together that's that's been really good for my soul.

It's been a really good witness to the culture that if we unify as much as possible. That's just it is the kingdom on or will I like what you said and I'll do it in the form of a question. Since when do we find in the New Testament that were to say to anyone y'all come here best ion tail and were told to go, you go there and so if we're going to be the authentic body of Christ were not asked and become join us here really go where they are. Love them on their terms. Love them in their location care for them, serve them, minister them and Stephen.

We do that then we earn the right to receive a hearing and we earn the right to begin to build these relationships and so I'd say the burden almost always wherever you are falls on the shoulders of the majority culture and in America even though exchanging that still the white nurse jealous and therefore it is up on our it is our responsibility is on our shoulders to be the ones to reach out to be the ones to go to be the ones who serve to be the ones who listen to be the ones you care, and I accept that and gladly so and I think that we been going back to James quite a few times here during the show, but I was and I do this on the prolactin to his ear.

Did I hear James and show me your faith and say I'll show you my faith by what I do.

A man I don't know any convictional Christians that are pro-life but I was telling okay. I appreciate your profession rely thing you actually do with going well. We understand and are against the unity I make that profession.

They suffer what I actually I think that's great fight between grace and truth. Finally, one thing we did talk about the man of my grade 110 times that I we move forward hone our needs gratefully. Dr. Aiken always rates the thanks to Dale welcome. This is the nobleness you know, Michelle, God willing, I'll talk to you silly like that always is

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