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Savings vary, subject to terms, conditions, and availability. Allstate Fire and Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. Hello, hello, hello. Thanks for joining. It's the Jim Jackson Show. It's another great opportunity for us to catch up. You can catch us on or catch me on Instagram at Jim Jackson Show, but also YouTube.com, Rich Eisen Show, or wherever you download your favorite podcast.
I do appreciate you coming in. There's a lot going on post All-Star break. Less than 30 games left in the season with the NBA. A lot of movement still going on in the Western Conference. Talk about that a little bit just because of what happened with, of course, the trade with Luca, and AD kind of shuffles the tables a little bit.
I think there's going to have an impact later as we wind down this second half of the season kind of placements. And the league is all about matchups a lot of times. And when you look at the Western Conference at the top of the charts, OKC, Memphis, you know, it's right up in there. Denver, who started off slow, is now finding health and momentum and a continuity that makes them tough. And then it just falls down to Lakers. You have the Clippers, you have Houston in there.
So Minnesota still with question marks. So the Western Conference, unlike the East, where you're at the top of the table, you got Boston and Cleveland, who are two of the most dominant teams that seem unbeatable. You thought maybe the Knicks had a really good shot to maybe take out the Celtics, but because of lack of depth, I think their I think their offense is struggling a little bit more. Defense is not as impactful as it was last year, especially from the depth perspective that you lost something, of course, with Hardenstein, of course, with his toughness that he had. And DiVincenzo with his toughness, they bought a certain amount of grit. The East is not as what I would say competitive at the top as the West is.
So it's a lot of things going on. But I say strap in because it's going to be very interesting going down the stretch. Health, okay, is going to be a big, really big influence on both sides of the table. Milwaukee healthy enough with their move. Giannis, Kyle Kuzma fills in. Does he give you that extra spark, that youthfulness that you need to compete the top two teams in the East? And in the West, the Luca, LeBron combination, Gabe Vincenzo is finally playing Jared Vanderbilt, Austin Reeves, you know, does it give you enough to really compete with a Denver with an OKC in Memphis? So I'm very interested to see kind of how all of that plays out as we walk our way into the end of the season. And speaking about the season, very disappointing one for the New Orleans Pelicans.
And I'm a jump into that. And the reason why I brought it up is I got a really good friend of mine, Antonio Daniels, who's from Columbus, Ohio, played at Bowling Green University, fourth pick in the 1997 draft, 14 year NBA vet and now current TV lead analyst for the Pelicans. We're going to dive into a little bit more about the thought process, philosophy, the future, not just of the Pelicans, but also of Zion Williamson. As promised, welcome to the, a good friend of mine, want to welcome to the show, Antonio Daniels right now, 14 year NBA vet, current lead analyst for the New Orleans Pelicans, a really good friend, number four pick in the NBA draft. What was that?
97? Man, we old, out of Bowling Green University, but man, listen, I'm glad you made it safe to finish. Thanks for jumping on. I know on travel days, we got our own routines, but, uh, I'm glad you can, you could step on and, and speak to me a little bit. Listen, you guys, you do a phenomenal job. When we first start this off a phenomenal job on Sirius XM radio, kind of balancing basketball. Um, I think the psychological part of the game, what these young athletes are going through, uh, having a little fun with it. Uh, did you ever think that from the perspective of playing basketball one, you'd be doing the radio too, but also doing the TV as well?
No, I'm going to be completely honest with you. Same way. Me too, bro. Jim, uh, you, you know, man, when I was still playing, you know, when you get to that point in your career where you start thinking about life after basketball.
So I did the sportscaster university at Syracuse while I was still playing. Like, you know what, let me give this a shot. Let me give it a shot. Let me see if I like the whole media thing.
So it's about four or five days. They take you through television training, radio training, all these different kinds of, um, scenarios that they put you in. And I'll tell you what's amazing. You never really realize, um, what goes into someone's craft until you actually do it. You know, everything looks so much easier from the outside in like, oh man, I could do what that guy does. You watch a game analysts. And when you see, um, men and women on sports center and these other shows, you just figure they just get up there and talk. There's an amount of preparation that goes into it.
There's an amount of concentration that goes into it. And I remember I left sportscaster university and I said, well, you know what? I'm glad I tried it. I just don't think this is for me, but God had other plans.
Listen, it's funny because same kind of thing. I didn't take, when I was playing, I did like a radio show when I was in Dallas and Portland, did some TV stuff. And then because early in my career with the Mavericks and some of the teams, when I didn't make the playoffs, I would do ESPN, uh, Roy, Roy, Roy Firestone during the playoffs, CNT during the playoffs. But I never thought about that as a second career.
And then I kind of just fell into it. And when I retired in oh six and the big 10 network started in 2007. Now I didn't take any formal classes, but one thing I did do Tonio was I hired a broadcasting agent. Okay.
And that was not just an agent, but I hired a broadcasting coach. Oh, okay. Okay.
Okay. Because the coach allowed me to see this profession through a different lens, you know, because it's a difference between what we do in the game compared to studio, compared to what you do on radio, how you study the quick hits you do in studio compared to what happens in the game, what kind of verbal verbalization that you're going to use. Um, all of these things, these small little nuances, you know, how to address the camera, you know, where to put your earpiece, all this kind of stuff, how to continue to talk and concentrate when somebody's talking in your ear, right? All these little things and how to study and prep had no idea about, but the coach was able to walk me through that. Did you, you said you hired a coach too? No, I hired an agent.
I didn't hire a coach. I learned on the fly, JJ, Jimmy, I learned on the fly. And when I initially the radio part for me, I'll be honest, the radio part was easier because in radio, it's really personality and you don't have to be on, you know what I mean? Like you can actually do radio, you know, at home with sweats on and a recliner chair.
You don't have to be on, but for television, you actually have to be on. So everything that you do is being recorded, you know, your, your, um, your mannerisms, how you smile, when you smile, where are you looking? Are you looking at the right camera?
All these other kinds of things. And I remember initially it's almost like it's a, it's a weird dynamic when you first start doing TV, because you don't want to smile too much. You don't want to somehow too little, you made to make sure you're looking in the right camera.
You want to make sure you're talking to the right people, all these other kinds of things. When do I look at the person who's my host? And when am I looking at the actual audience? When am I smiling?
When am I not smiling? So it's a lot of, like you said, it's a lot of nuances that go into really more the TV side than the radio side for me. But I tell you this, you know, God's not going to send you somewhere where he hasn't prepared you to succeed and putting me on radio first, that kind of set me up for television. So now when they tell me, you know what, we're on television and we have to feel 45 seconds, like that's simple because, you know, I do a three hour radio show every day on Sirius XM. So filling time in television is a lot easier because I was prepped for that for television by radio.
No, I get it, man. And radio is different too, because with radio, with TV, a lot of stuff that we do, because the game is ongoing, you got to get in and out. You got to play off your play by play. You got to get your points. And a lot of times people don't realize you get a chance to get really hit a point during the time out of during a dead ball.
Okay. Or coming out of, let's say, halftime where you can kind of it depending on what's going on, but how much time you have coming back into that second half kind of break down what happened, but you don't have a lot of time really to articulate a lot of things you want to say. But during the radio show, and I did radio too for Sirius, you got those segments, you can really break those segments down and really jump into, dive into some really deep conversations. And I think that's, that's the really push and pull because you've got a really good dynamic.
You're able to really forecast, predict, talk about, dive into, dissect during the week, but then you're able to utilize a lot of that prep work and study when you're analyzing games too. Am I right with that? Oh gosh. Yeah.
You're, you're talking about two totally different dynamics because you're right. Like, and the thing that you keep referencing that's so true is you keep saying people don't realize, yeah, people don't realize. I didn't realize.
I didn't realize. So when I'm on TV with my broadcast partner, Joe Myers, I have to make a quick point. You know, when my job and your job as an analyst, isn't to tell the what is to tell the how and the why, you know, why did this happen?
You know, how did this happen? But you have to learn to articulate it really quickly because you don't have two and a half minutes. Like you do in a radio to actually sit down, sit back, dissect, break down a point.
No, I've got to tell what happened because I got to get it out quick because next thing you know, they're onto the next player. Basketball is a very, very fast moving sport in radio. If we're talking about something, I know that I have a segment, a block in radio.
First segment of radio is anywhere from 20 to 25 minutes. That gives me enough time to actually gather my thoughts and be able to articulate everything that I want to say throughout the course of the game. Sometimes I'm not given that time. You know, I'm trying to make a point in my producers in my ear like 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, you got to make that point and get out on time. Right. Wrap it up. And the difference to football, you have more time because you got dead periods during the game. Right. When after a play, that's why, you know, the Tony Romo's or Troy Aikman's of the world, they got a chance to really dive into and explain because when a play is over, you got, you know, 30 seconds, the play clock, then you can, you can explain a lot of, explain a lot of stuff that's going on.
So they have it. Now you got to memorize a lot more stuff, I think in football because of all the moving parts, but a lot of players and the players, but it is a difference in the sports are going to vary, but I try to listen to a little bit of everybody in every sport so I can gather some. And speaking of articulation, I need you to articulate on this because you do such a great job. You and Joe with new Orleans, such heavy expectations coming into this year, of course, with the trade of BI, with the injury situation, what, what, what's the, what's the state of the union, the mindset right now with the pelicans organization?
Uh, growth. And I know that sounds simplistic. Like, yeah, of course it is. You know, I'm not going to give you the run of the mail answer, but it is right now, obviously with the pelicans sitting where they are now in the Western conference.
And I don't even know if they're mathematically eliminated yet, but the chances of them making the play in or the playoffs are, you know, very slim to none, if any at all. So now what you're more concerned with is obviously finishing this year healthy one, but also paying attention to the growth and giving reps to the growth and progression of certain guys, right? If you Trey Murphy has made a significant jump from where he was a year ago. And again, I always knew Trey Murphy was talented.
Um, but the jump that he's made this year, as far as ball handling, facilitating and scoring the basketball is concerned. I didn't see it coming. You know me, Jimmy, you know me, I am a half glass full guy. I'm an optimist in every situation and every storm there's a silver lining.
You just got to find it. Trey Murphy has been a silver lining this year. Eve Meese will be in the running for rookie of the year and will probably be first team or rookie had a great year, but it wasn't expected because of what you just said. The expectations coming in this for this team this year from day one, literally from day one, we had training camp in Nashville, the second day of training camp, Trey Murphy pulled his hamstring. It was all downhill from there. It was Trey Murphy. Then it was DeJounte Murray. And then it was Zion. And then it was BI. And then it was CJ McCollum. Then it was Herb Jones.
Then it was DeJounte Murray again. You know, so it was, this is one of those, one of those years, you know, it just one of those years where you grow, you learn, um, and you try and put it behind you while learning in the process. Oh, got a dash light on the auto zone. Free fix finder service can read your check engine ABS and other warning lights to help you find the fix. You'll get an easy to read report with clear next steps. And we can recommend a trusted local shop. If you need one, it's the most complete free warning light report backed by technician verified fixes the free fix finder service with shop referral only at auto zone get in the zone auto zone restrictions apply in the NFL.
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Thank you. Well, let me ask you this from a, from a philosophical perspective, we saw what happened and we'll get into the Dallas thing with Luca, a trade that shocked, not just the NBA, but the sports world in general, right? With an organization saying that, you know, at our 25 year old once in a lifetime phenom, we're not willing to do this.
We're willing to give him up. And he hasn't been through kind of the injury cycle that Zion has been through there at the public. Is there any fear from within, again, I don't want to put you in a situation, but outside noise about that, what is the timeframe for making a decision with Zion moving forward with his continued, not that he can't play, but what is continued injury history? I don't, I don't think that, I don't think there's a fear there as far as, um, separation is concerned from Zion, from the organization, you know, it's, you know, this Jimmy growth isn't linear, you know, the light comes on for different players at different times throughout the course of their career. Like none of us learn the same. We all learn differently. And what this performance team and coaching staff is trying to come up with is a game plan that works best for Z.
That's what you're trying to do. Find a game plan that works best for him. And by what, what I mean, when I say works best for him, I mean, what keeps him on the floor longer in a consistent manner. If you look at this season, um, he's average of 28 minutes a game, but in those 28 minutes, he's average is a career high in points. I mean, and rebounds in a career high and assist last year, last year, he played 70 games, but that gets overshadowed by that. And it's warranted overshadowed by the fact that this pelicans team won 49 games, made it to the playing game. He was having a great game against the Lakers and then put his hamstring.
It wasn't available for the playoffs. Like the thing that, that sucks is he's such a good kid, amazing young man, amazing young man. And what happens in this social media era, it's so easy to, to come down on the kid and just go hard on the kid, all these other kinds of things. And I know for me, seeing this young man every day, getting on the bus with him, getting on the plane with him, all these different kinds of situations that you're put in with him. I just, I just want to see him succeed. I know what that young man's capable of. You ain't seen many of these.
You ain't, I'm telling you there, God is in heaven. And there are certain guys that he says, listen, man, I'm going to give you a little bit more than I've given everybody else talent, agility, strength, power, explosiveness, soft touch around the rim, all these other kinds of things. And once the health comes to it's going to be a problem. Yeah. You know, and I agree with you on that, but I'm going to take my player's hat off and go to the organization center. At one point do we say we, this may be delaying our total progress as an organization. And this is something, you know, the front offices always talk about, okay, what is our timeframe? Okay. We know we have a four to five year period to really grow with this core group.
Okay. But if we're not getting consistent minutes from this group, we have to look at, I mean, hey, Philly going to have to figure out what they want to do with Embiid. I really think, you know, after this year, because of what's going on and I will hate to see it, but I do know, and we've both been through trades and moves and what we just saw that organization's timelines sometimes accelerates based on some external pressure and maybe some internal pressure as far as where the organization has to be. And I'm wondering as much as that game plan is there that, and this is not a question for you to answer.
And I'm just thinking out loud, this understanding how organizations think that, okay, we've exhausted everything we could, we can from the patient's perspective, from the physical perspective, from getting Zion back to, we really need him to get to, but yet something still happens. Is this the time? And I'm not saying this year, but maybe next year, depending on what happens that we cut the cord and move forward. I don't know. It's just my observation, just thinking of both sides of the table. And, and I know you work with the group and I work with the Lakers, I mean, Lakers with the Clippers and the certain things that I say, and I know, cause I've worked for the organization, um, that, uh, you know, I gotta be careful with.
Okay. Um, but that, that's my, that's my fear, not my fear, but my thoughts when I think about Zion and the organization, for me, I feel like it's a matter of time. And again, call me an optimist, uh, call me bias. I feel like it's a matter of time before it comes together for this young man, full circle. I mean, we saw when he came in, he lost the weight.
He looked like bounty looked good. The question is, can his body hold up? Not just one, not just one year with 70.
Right. The thing is no one knows that because you know, when you say, can you think of, so if I was to ask you, Jim, give me someone in the history of this league that has all of the physical attributes of Zion and one person. I mean, I would say Charles Barkley because you got to think about it. I mean, Charles could, Charles could rebound, run, jump. He could shoot it. He had high IQ for the game for sure.
I will say this though. Zion's bouncier than Charles, but if you say attributes, but that's it, but that's a part of the physical, but we're not, we're not saying who got the highest vert. Charles was bouncy.
He's not as bouncy as he's not as bouncy. We know that. So do you know what's difficult is when you have a one of one and it's not, this is not a conversation that's just excluded design. When you look at somebody like Victor, women, right. There are certain guys throughout the history of the sport that are one of one.
So now it's almost like these guys become, you have to, you can't train them the way you do everybody else because you've never had anybody liked it. Like all athletes, aren't the same body types, all body types are different trainings. Right. So like when people say, well, you know what, Greg Popovich coach, Tim Duncan and David Robinson, you know what, Tim Duncan and David Robinson aren't Victor Whitman. Exactly. Totally different. They're not totally different. Right. As far as their, their body type, the way that they play. So you have to take a different approach to these guys. And listen, when you have a performance staff, that's trying to put in place a plan for a young man that is six foot five and that bouncy, that athletic and that explosive that plays with that amount of power. It's a first for them too. So I think this is a situation. And again, this is not simply excluded design. You see this with different players throughout this league, where performing staff, training staff and doctor staff, and in some coaching staff, they're learning on the fly because this is a first.
No, I got you, man. And I, but you know, for me, I just hope I love to see the young men who have potential, but young men have an opportunity to reach their full potential. A lot of times we see a lot of that being derailed because of injury.
So hopefully, you know, his body, he continues to mature and grow and his body can sustain a lot of that pressure that he puts on it and continues to grow. And, you know, I want to transition though, cause I know you were traveling today, but last, did you watch the Lakers Dallas game? So it was a reunion game kind of, cause it wasn't in Dallas.
It was in LA, Dallas went and played the Lakers. Initial thoughts when you watched the game? Almost to be expected, to be expected. Like he was going to come out and he was going to, he was going to show his tail. He was going to show his tail. And by show his tail, I mean, he was going to play an emotional basketball game. It's you know, if you watch the depressor, the press conference that Luca had with Rob Palenka right after he was traded, he was still shocked. Yeah. I mean, you can see it in his face, body, his body language.
No question. He almost looked hurt still like hurt to the point where I can't believe this has actually happened to me. And what you're saying, well, what I'm seeing from Luca now is a young man that is coming to the realization that I got to put Dallas behind me.
I got to put it behind me. I think one of the toughest things to do when you don't know any better is to understand the business of basketball and to understand that the business of basketball, a lot of times Trump's basketball itself, because you can't think of the history of this sport where there has been a 25 year old phenom as good as Luca, as dominant as Luca, as skilled as Luca, that was five time first team all league that was moved this early in his career without asking to be moved. So like you said earlier, and you hit it on the head, Jimmy, this isn't a trade that shocked the world. I mean, that shocked the basketball world. This is a trade that shocked the world as a whole. I remember when I heard this trade, I thought it was a joke.
I get right. No, you had to check to make sure that Sham's account wasn't hacked, right? Everybody at first thing, everybody said like, no, there's gotta be a fake account. There's gotta be fake something. Yeah.
I even, I even called a couple of people, right? Like, did you hear this thing about Luca? Do you believe this? Do you believe this? And you know, I I'll be completely honest.
I'll be completely honest and transparent. It wasn't simply the fact that Luca got traded. It was the fact that after watching Kevin Durant get moved and Rudy Gobert get moved and Mikel Bridges get moved and all the hall that those guys got brought back.
I love Anthony Davis, great player, fantastic player will be a first ballot hall of fame. But when you trade someone like Luca to get Anthony Davis, Max Christie and a one, one first round pick, it wasn't just the fact that Luca got traded that I thought like, okay, whatever. It was the fact that Luca got traded and they only received that man who is a heck of a player, right? I don't want to sound like I'm down talking him because I feel like he makes Dallas better today than they were when they had Luca for this season for the immediate future. But Anthony Davis, Max Christie and a first round pick. If I'm a Mavericks fan and I see what Kevin Durant brought in and I see what Mikel Bridges bought in and I see what Rudy Gobert bought in.
It's tough. It's tough, but when I first heard it too, but then I had to put put this in perspective, Antonio. This is a business deal by a business family. This wasn't now I believe they gave autonomy to Nico to make a deal happen. And he knew where he could go to get something that made sense because of Rob Plink and AD. He knew that probably AD wasn't as happy in the current search when he was in LA. He probably wasn't happy so they could get this deal done without blowing it up without understanding the mechanics of that. But when you look at it from I think from the Dallas perspective, this is me thinking from a business perspective, their whole thing is stay in contention, win now, try to win.
We got a bigger picture brewing here with everything else that's going on. The Dallas Mavericks to me are a small piece of the puzzle for the Adelson family, okay, with their history with the casino. It's a bigger play going to me after reading and trying to understand and understand how they made their money. The Mavericks are a piece of the puzzle that fit into their overall business plan. So when you see a deal like this, you scratch your head and you're like, it doesn't make sense to us. But to the people that's inside that room that sat there and talked about what the future of this organization is going to look like and business-wise, it probably makes sense to them.
And at the end of the day, Antonio, that's all that matters. You know what's wild though? I agree with you. Because when you say scratch in your head, I think that's an understatement because you know this, you know this more than anybody. You know what organizations will do when your impact outweighs your baggage, they'll rock with you. So when you hear all this stuff coming up about Luke, oh, it's conditioning and there's lack of professionalism and be like, listen, man, organizations have dealt with far more, more than that. Oh, big time. Big time. Organizations have dealt with far more with people, with players that won on Lucas caliber, you know?
So that's what's difficult. That's what's difficult for me to kind of, because I guess I'm accustomed to the NBA operating a certain way, but I tell you this to take this conversation in another direction, these super max deals about to be gone. And that's, that's another piece of this that I know fans hate to hear, but understand, you have to understand what this means. $350 million for Luca, Kate Cunningham's going to come in $400 million. You know, Victor women, Yama is, you know, who knows when you're talking about playing players, this kind of money, it's not simply about what you're giving that particular player. It's also about what you're able to put around that player because of the amount of the salary cap that that money takes up.
For me, it's like paying a really good quarterback, a whole lot of money, but now I don't have money to pay a office to protect him. And I don't have money to pay receivers for him to throw the ball to. Now he's great. The quarterback is fantastic. He's skilled and he has a great arm, but I can't protect him.
And I didn't give him any weapons to throw the ball to. So now what? These super max is going to change it. They're going to change the game, Jimmy. Well, these super maxes are going to change the game.
Let me say a couple of things that I, this is I'm a walk down the street with you on this one, couple of things. One NBA always for a long time, been trying to get rid of guaranteed contracts. They can't do it. They, but they went from 10 year deals down to six year deals. Now down to five and four.
Okay. Now those are for really those, not the super max deal, but the max deal is a big time contract. Your big time players go get it. But also what they did, Tony, if you paid attention to the last couple of years, they, they shortened the deal. They got options in there. So like I said, it's about Bruce Brown.
So when he signed and left Denver and went to Indiana, he had a two year deal, 45 million, but only one year was guaranteed. Okay. That other was a team option. Okay.
It was a jock long day. I think it was, I went to from Phoenix, no, not Houston, Houston. He got a four year deal, 32 million, only one year was guaranteed.
Okay. So what they're starting to do is control the length of these contracts may not be non guarantee. I mean, guarantee, but they only locked in for a year or two. It's just like football contracts. The NBA can't get rid of the, um, guaranteed contract.
But what we do is we shorten the term. So now teams are not locked in as long. So they still have some flexibility to move and then unlocked into a player and the max deal like now it's harder through free agency to get stuff done. Why guys want to sign a big time deal. Okay. And then force their way out. So now trades are going to be more relevant.
And prevalent and more impactful. I think moving forward, because God's going to say, well, my squad here, well, let me sign my big time deal first and then I'll force my way out rather than the free. Okay. Can you see the NBA going toward a place where if you do sign a max contract, if you do sign a max contract, that you can't ask to be traded for two years. Of course they'll ask it, but you know, with the players association is not going to, that's not going to fly.
And that's, this is where the battle is going to come in because it's so much money that's going to be coming in. And listen, soccer, big time soccer is different. Okay.
What they pay and how they do it. Okay. But with basketball, and I don't care how big these TV contracts are. You start getting towards that sacred apron. Listen, I work for the NBA. I work for the NBA. It's hard.
You start getting towards that sacred apron. Listen, I work for the Clippers, the greatest owner to me is Steve Ballmer because of how much he cares. But he's also the richest Steve Ballmer doesn't want to go into the second apron. Okay.
And this, you talking about billions. So if he doesn't want to go into it, an owner that doesn't have that definitely in it, but if they're going to play in it, they're going to play in it. See if they can win.
If they do, they're going to get out. Look at what Denver did. Okay. Denver didn't want to go and start to pay and overpay a Jeff Green or Bruce Brown and things like that. Exactly. They said, let us try to manage what we have, build what we have in our young guys, but stay below, you know, out of the luxury tax. Do you think that's fair to Nicole Yogi? What's fair in basketball?
Come on, come on, come on, come on. I'm saying, I'm saying like, when you have, there are certain guys that command more than others. What I mean is there are certain guys that you have a championship window.
That's going to close quickly. And your job as an organization is to do right by that particular player. But let me say this, would it be different if Jokic had a different personality and they command it, let's say like LeBron. See, because, because he doesn't complain, he doesn't, you know, um, want to fight about stuff.
He's happy to play. Don't get me wrong. He's a competitor, but because his demeanor and personality is soft-spoken, it's more docile. The organization doesn't feel that pressure. Now that, that was somebody else that said, listen, man, you got to do so. That puts more pressure on the organization. I don't think that that's a great question and great.
Yes, they should spend the money, but I think each circumstance is different, dependent on the player. It's like LeBron, his presence and what he commanded. You had to go out there and make some changes.
And sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't, but because of who he was and what he demanded from the organization, a Colby from what you demand from the organization. Now you're put on more pressure, but when you have an individual who's great, like your kids, but his personality is a lot different. I don't know if they feel that same pressure. Right. That's fair. That's fair. I don't know, man.
It's going to be interesting, man. And then, you know, as, as we talk about this too, and what I really want to get into too, and we're talking about, you know, the young players are getting paid in free agency before we get out of here, but you had a great conversation, um, last week on radio talking about the current generation and how it's perceived compared to the older generations and how each side has a leg to stand on. But the understanding part of both is where we're missing the point. And the two can coincide, but it's, well, you're not better because of this and you're not better because it is, but not understanding the dynamics of both.
And what I'm saying like this in today's world, you got to meet a young person where they're at. Okay. I can't expect them to understand what it's like to play in the park, to play in the gym, to have to wait. If you lose, um, these things like that, they are not privy to. They used to play an AAU, playing multiple games, um, being on different teams.
Okay. Making decisions like that, playing with the three ball, not posting up. That's what, that's how they play. That's how they view that they were raised. That's how they were raised. And that's how they were. So I can't fault them for seeing the game like that. I can, I try to help guide them through it, but I think too many times, it's like, you know, Antonio, well, you need to play like this.
What's, what's your thoughts on that? I think the biggest issue with trying to think of the right way to say this, you know, I, I don't, I don't tell my daughters. I don't say to my daughters anymore. When I was your age, I filled in a blank. I don't do that because it's almost like when they hear, when I was your age, it's almost like they, they turn their hearing. Yep. Like this generation doesn't want to hear it. They don't want to hear. And I get it.
I get it. You know, when I said that to my daughters in the past, I met her when I was your age and my daughters would say things like, but dad, when you were my age, did you have a phone? Like, no. When you were my age, did you have the internet? Like no dad, when you were my age, did you have a car? No.
Okay. Look, I understand what you're saying, but we're being raised in two completely different worlds. And it's true.
And it's true. And I think it's difficult sometimes for my generation and generations that are older to understand this generation, because of how we were raised to do things because of how we were raised to see things. And because of the way that we were raised to play the game of basketball, there's more than one way to play the game of basketball. But we feel, and so many people I've talked to feel like if you don't do it this way, there is no other way. Example in today's NBA, when you grew up, you grew up in a place where you grew up, Jimmy, a three-on-one ended up in a what?
And if it didn't, if it didn't, you was running suicides or something. A three-on-one today ends up in a what? Three-point shot. Right.
And here's my thing. We got to adjust our goggles and understand we're not playing the game the way that they played it. They didn't learn the game the way we did.
Nope. It doesn't mean that they're wrong. I tell you, I think the biggest issue, mainly from a basketball perspective that this generation runs into is, and I can even say in a life conversation, is when the respect is not there. When that respect is not there. That's the problem. So when the generation of today disrespects those of the past, you know, when you hear guys in today's generation or a generation removed in today's NBA, and they're talking greasy about, you know, the Bob Koozies and the Bill Russells and the Wilt Chamberlain, the guys whose shoulders that you stood on to actually get to this point, the Oscar Robertsons, these guys, you understand what some of these players had to deal with?
The green up Duja bars, what these players had to deal with off the floor. So you have an opportunity to get paid what you're being paid today. And I think when the respect isn't given, I think that that that's where it hits different for me, because I'm with you. I feel like our generation can meet them where they are.
And in turn, their generation can appreciate what they've been blessed with because of those that have come before them and have given them the opportunity to be where they are today. We all take supplements, or at least we know we should. But why are so many supplement companies charging ridiculous prices for products that really aren't that special? It's frustrating.
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Get an expert now on TurboTax.com. You make some, the points you make there, I think the respect part, because if they respected the older generation in a more admirable way, and we're not going to put everybody in the same, right, not paying everybody with the same brush. Exactly. Because that's not, that's not the case. But I believe if they did, if it was more of a consensus, the older generation wouldn't mind as much how they play.
Because they would see it a little bit different because they felt like, okay, you guys drew the game off of what we did. But since you're not giving me the respect, you're really not understanding what we had to go through. It was somebody that one time was talking about, and this is, this is, you got to understand certain situations and demographics and time periods. Somebody said, well, LeBron James or the current athlete would never be another Muhammad Ali or Kareem or Bill. I said, you're right.
I said, you know why? Not because they don't want to do anything politically correct. It's because the narratives in which a Bill Russell or Muhammad Ali, a Malcolm X lived in, they lived in a segregated neighborhood. They lived in those environments. They experienced those same things that everyday people outside of being an athlete did every day.
They had to take it home with them. So when they did their job sports wise, they went back to that black neighborhood and they experienced all of the ills of the times. Okay.
At that, during that time, our current athletes and even me growing up, I experienced it, but not like that, not in the sixties. So the perspective is different. So when I go for perspective on both ends, when I talk to older guys who played the game before, and it always talking about the younger guy and vice versa, I said, you gotta understand each perspective and respect that. Okay. Jimmy, you know, why I don't like having the go conversation, you know, why I hate it. Like, and, and, you know, it's an ongoing conversation, whether it's through Sirius XM, any platform in a barbershop, everybody wants to talk about who to go.
I get asked that question many times, you know, why I don't like having that conversation because everybody that's in the go conversation or everybody that should be in the go conversation had to endure and deal with something that someone else can't relate to. Totally. So it's not fair, right? So what Bill Russell had to deal with what Kareem Abdul-Jabbar had to deal with is not what Michael Jordan and LeBron James had to deal with. You know what Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Bill Russell and Michael Jordan didn't have to deal with social media, but LeBron James does. I'm not like you think LeBron and Michael Jordan can even fathom, can even fathom pulling up to a hotel with your teammates and them telling you, because you are black, you cannot sleep in this hotel. No, we don't know what these players had to endure. We don't know what these players had to deal with. I heard Bill Russell say, you know what, when I was in between those lines, I felt like I was a part of everybody else.
And like you just said, when I stepped back out and went in the world, I was treated unfairly. So I don't like having these GOAT conversations because there's nuance to them. The GOAT is not simply about basketball. You know, when you talk about what Michael Jordan has done and how he grew the game, what LeBron James has done as far as player empowerment is concerned, like it's so many different areas you can go. I think that there are different GOATs for their respective generations.
And I leave it at that. No, no, you know, and that part, Tony, for me is that's why it's hard to really talk about, well, I think you have to honor the generations that came before and respect the young players and what they're doing today. The comparative part, here's the thing too with Kobe and Mike. Well, LeBron doesn't have a killer instinct.
Well, Magic didn't either. Not like LeBron and Kobe, but he beat you in different ways. He beat you with that smile. Now he was, he got into you, but his attitude, his demeanor, his approach was a lot different. You don't think Magic was friendly with some guys, but he went at him.
He went at him. You know what I'm saying? But when people talk about that. It also depends on what's your definition of killer instinct. Because a lot of people feel like killer instinct means I'm gonna take the last shot. When LeBron James won 70 feet and blocks Andre Iguodala's shot to win the game, that's killer instinct. I was fortunate to play against the prime Michael Jordan, prime Kobe. It was a little early for LeBron, but I appreciate exactly everything that he does. I understand I understand what motivated and why people love Kobe and Mike so much. I've seen it, I played with it.
I felt it. And I'm not going to argue otherwise with regards to who they are and why they set the standard so high. But I also understand that there's a difference in mentality in how you win.
Okay. And looking at it from not so much of a closed tunnel vision of you have to be this kind of player or have this kind of attitude in order to be this kind of person, you know, I just don't. So, but we're always going to have that conversation, unfortunately, because it gets clicked and get people talking. But, you know, I think I appreciate what came before me and I do appreciate a lot of the young talent that I see today because of how dynamic they are, men and women, of what they're doing, what they have to deal with. Now there's still things they got to learn. There's still things, their growth has to be there, but I try to catch them, speak with them, appreciate them where they're and meet them where they're at today.
So I appreciate that. Hey, before we get out of here, be remiss before I say this Eastern Conference, can Cleveland beat Boston? Well, I didn't hear you. You said, hmm. Here's the question.
Can Cleveland beat Boston four times? Okay. That's even better.
No, I'm asking you. Yeah. And the thing is, I was, I was down in Cleveland for training kit for Sirius X. And the vibes were great.
The vibes are great. You know, we sat down with everybody. My, my, my radio partner, Rob Perez and I, you know, Darius Garland, Donovan Mitchell, Evan Mobley, Jared Allen, Colby Altman, Kenny Atkinson.
We sat down with all of them. And when the Pelicans played in Cleveland, I went in the locker room after the game and I sat down with Donovan Mitchell and I was just kind of just joking with him and say, man, you know what? Y'all rolling on like, and this was earlier in the year. And he said, you know what, man, I thought we would be good. I didn't think we would be this good.
And I'm with them. I didn't think they would be this good, but the question now becomes, can they get over that hump? Because I think they are the second best team in the Eastern Conference. I think for a while it was like, Oh, can New York challenge him? Can Milwaukee challenge him? I think those two teams in the Eastern Conference have separated themselves. And I'm gonna be honest with you, Jimmy.
It is really, really difficult right now to see another team in the Eastern Conference beating the, one of those two, beating the Boston Celtics four times. And I mean, it helps. They got DeAndre Hunter. That helps.
You know what I like in it too. And this is the last thing before we get out of here is that when Steve Kerr took over the Golden State Warriors, Mark Jackson kind of primed the pump. So that's what JB Bickerstaff did. But what people don't give those young men credit for is that they matured another year. So they were able to accept the new kind of coaching that Steve Kerr brought in.
Okay. Despite what, what happened or you liked Mark Jackson, you didn't, you didn't, whatever. They grew another year mentally. I see the same thing with, and what Steve Kerr did, he tweaked the system, got the ball out of Seth's hands as much, made it more free-flowing, opened it up, plugged in some pieces and made it work. Same thing with Cleveland. That now the coaching staff looked at it and said, they've matured another year. We have to utilize Evan Mobley in a different way. We've got to utilize Jared Allen.
We're going to allow Garland to be, but we're going to create a system where not everybody's playing off each other. And those young men in that locker room matured enough to understand that. And I think the combination of the two philosophies kind of mesh together and we have the Cavs where they're at today.
And do you know what else helped? Is the fact that you don't have some of the issues hanging over the locker room that you had. Oh, the contracts, right?
The contracts are signed. Donovan Mitchell got extended. Jared Allen got extended.
Evan Mobley got extended. What's the three men? No, no. Gosh, his name is alluding me right now.
Stronger guy that started at the three spot for them. You're not talking about Max truce. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That guy is gone. Josh is gone.
No, it's not. So they locked in their core. So it was no more questions about what the rest of the year. And you know how that works. Do you know how that works in this league?
You got contracts hanging over. The big question was Donovan Mitchell coming back. It's Donovan Mitchell coming back. Remember Jared Allen didn't even play in the post season, right? Is he really engaged?
Is he really coming back? Does he want to be important? When you can take care of everybody financially, now you have a locker room that is built on peace. That's built on peace and camaraderie. It's a lot easier to go out and play when everybody in that locker room contractually speaking is taken care of. Yeah. It's going to be, I think the West is a little bit more open, of course, just because you know, with Memphis getting better and OKC now, listen, if it starts today, the Lakers would play OKC in that first round, which would be very interesting one versus four.
It'd be very interesting. I don't know about Minnesota defensively. They're not as good as they were last year. I think they do miss cat from a perspective of what he bought to the table. They're not good at it.
No. So the, it, the East is less intriguing just because those two teams are dominant. The West, you got a lot of questions, you know, goes back to match up, you know, goes back to match ups and injuries and health.
So it's going to be interesting, man. But I just wanted to thank you, bro, for coming on fellow Ohio. And of course, 14 years in the league, you've been through a lot.
You've seen a lot. I know you dedicated your life to a higher purpose and a lot of that is being shown through what you do on TV. So I appreciate you, brother. Good luck for the rest of the year. You know, we're going to catch up soon for sure. You too, brother. You know how much I appreciate you always, brother.
Man. That was a great conversation. I think perspective means a lot, no matter when I'm, I'm not just talking about in sports, but in life, especially older generation, younger generation, we get caught up into our times, our feelings, what's best when we were younger. This was the best, but you got to keep in mind when we were younger too, I was younger.
I thought the people behind me at times generation before me didn't understand what I was talking about until I got older. So great perspective from Antonio, uh, in that conversation and other things, but, uh, another great week, the great week of basketball coming up March madness is right around the corner. I'm getting ready, getting geared up for that. Always a great time. I wish you and everyone have a wonderful rest of the week. Got some great college games coming up this weekend. I got a good one.
UCLA at Purdue, John wooden started at Purdue, all American course, the legacy there, uh, at UCLA. It's a great NBA game. So I want you to enjoy the rest of the week. Be safe, spread some love, be kind, be peaceful.
And I'll see you next week. No one knows music like Rolling Stone senior writer, Brian Hyatt talks the biggest music news from the biggest stars. Almost everyone is teaming up on Drake.
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