The Jim Jackson Show: BJ Armstrong

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Learn more at AmericanExpress.com slash Amex Business. Happy holidays, everybody. Welcome. It is Jim Jackson here, Jim Jackson. So you can follow me at Jim Jackson's show on Instagram and also where you download your favorite podcast, whether that's YouTube, Spotify, Apple.

You can follow me. Pick it up. Thank you for coming. I wish everybody is that time of the season. Not only is it Christmas time, but it's NBA Emirates Cup time. And I want to just open the show with this.

And this is not a lot. I know it's been a lot of question about it last year where it's had I think it's picked up a lot of momentum. The thing I loved about it this year is that I felt the fans in the stadiums understood it a lot more. I think the NBA did a really good job, again, of identifying Tuesdays and Thursdays as the days that this event is going to take place. And always when you have something new that instituted, it takes time to kind of build up to something that people look forward to.

That is not a gimmick. But what I saw more importantly this year was the buy in with the teams. That really, I think, was the impetus of what we saw last night. And I'll get on that with the Golden State Houston game. But the premise behind it is that athletes are going to compete. You're going to compete once you get into the game.

OK. Not that it during the regular season you don't have games, but because it's a different designation, the elite of elite will compete. I think everybody's seen this, have seen this this year. And for example, last night, I don't know if you watched it, if you saw the Houston game, how competitive that game was. But you had to watch the end of it. The end of it, after Houston finally won, said a lot to me. Did you see the excitement on the faces of those young men, the coaching staff, hear the crowd, how excited they were to win that game?

You won't see that during the regular season. Yet somebody may make a last second shot, half quarter, whatever, win the game. But that level of excitement from that young Houston team says it all. It says what, how important it is, even when you don't think that the Emirates Cup, the end season tournament has any kind of relevance, like winning a trophy for an end season cup doesn't matter. Well, it does, especially to a team like Houston who's trying to figure out what their identity is, who they are.

Emay Yudoka is saying, listen, it's a certain way we have to play. If we play that way, we can be successful. Well, there's no better proof in the pudding than when you're able to beat a Golden State in advance at the semifinals to get to the Emirates Cup. So everything the coaching staff is preaching now comes to fruition. And now the voices are heard a lot louder and with more depth because they've seen the success behind the teaching.

Those young men really, really put their heart and soul in that. And they felt like they've accomplished something, not that they're done, but to get to the semifinals. Where does this push this Houston team? We're already looking at this Houston team. I know they're in the top five in the West right now. Defensively, they're a lot better.

Offensively, they still have to get better. But winning something like this, getting to the semifinals mean a lot. Look what it did for the Indiana Pacers last year who people weren't talking about until they were able to beat the Milwaukee Bucks, get into the semifinals, get into the finals and end up losing to the Lakers. But where that propelled them for the rest of the season and ultimately into the playoffs because they gave that young team confidence. And to me, that's the most important part, especially for a team like the Houston Rockets, who were kind of carving out their identity as this rough, defensive minded, extra energy, hustle team that's going to just grind you out and outwork you.

And now you start to see those seeds start to, the seeds that you plan to start to grow and now start the payoff. So shout out to the Houston Rockets, Imei Yudoka, the coaching staff, the organization for having these young men in the right frame of mind to be competitive and now get themselves to a semifinal. I love every minute of it, watching the game last night, because at the end of the day, that's what the game is all about. As promised, a really good friend, former NBA champion, three-time NBA champion, B.J. Armstrong, of course, Chicago Bulls, but also played with Golden State, Charlotte, back in Chicago, too, as well. A native of Detroit. I got a quick question, though.

This is my thing. Brother Rice High School, Detroit, outside. They had two seven-footers on that team. Oh, wow.

Wow, you go way down. Yeah, I remember because you came down to Toledo and played Scott at high school. And I was in maybe an eighth grade at the time. I think you guys came in. You did have two twins, right? Seven-footers. The Lanier twins.

Right. Whatever happened to them those two? You know, they were behind me by a few years.

I'm not really sure. I know they both went to college. They were both seven feet something.

You know, big prospects, big names. But that is a great that you remember that. That's going way back. So we did. I remember that.

That's 30-plus years for me that you remember coming down. But that's interesting. You remember that. Look at you doing your research. Come on, man.

No, no, no, no. I remember just because, you know, later on, this is after I left. Chris Weber, Shane Betty, Country Day came down and played Scott.

But you guys came and played. But for you growing up in Detroit, why Brother Rice? Why not Southwestern?

Why not some of the city schools, Pershing, stuff like that? Why was it brother brother? I know from an education perspective, I'm sure that had something to do with it.

Basketball wise. Well, my parents. That was basically I was a young kid growing up in the city of Detroit and my parents, they said, this is where you're going to school. So I really didn't have a choice in that.

At the time, I didn't understand. I wanted to go to the Detroit public schools because those were all were all my friends went to school. Growing up in Detroit.

That's what I knew. I grew up in the city. And suddenly when it was time for me to go to high school, my parents said, this is where you're going to high school. And I sucked a little bit. I pleaded my case to no avail. And growing up, you know, Jim, I'm sure you've been into Detroit a few times, but there was a place called Detroit St. Cecilia. And the late Sam Washington was there and he was also instrumental in saying, you know what?

This is probably the place best place for B.J. So I had no say so in it. I went there. I can't say that I was happy on day one. But, you know, now 57 years old, it was without question the best decision in my life.

It's affected me from this point moving forward. And, you know, like I say, sometime your parents do know best in that. And when it came to that decision, that was the best thing for me to have that opportunity to see a world, Jimmy, that I had never seen before and be able to go to school to see how other people live outside of the city of Detroit and to experience the things I experienced as a young kid. So I'm very happy that I did it. But as a young kid, 14, 15 years old, I wasn't happy about it. So I got two things on that. My parents, for whatever reason, went to my neighborhood school was majority all black.

Right. Parents got together going into the second grade to send us to a local Catholic school. Like five, five, five families sent their kids over here. I'm in the second grade. I go from an all black school Baptist background to a Catholic school mass on Wednesday, the regular church on Sunday. I'm confused. I don't know what I got. No, I don't know what I'm in the second grade. I got suspended, bro, in the second grade. And I got sent right back to the public school the next year. So my parents tried the Catholic school.

They was like, nah, that's not going to work. Your parents gave you a choice. I didn't have a choice. I had to make this work. So I tried to mess it up. I couldn't mess it up. And I had to finish. So they said, no matter what you do, you're going to finish here.

But no, it's interesting. And I have to admit, I was totally out of my comfort zone. I didn't know anyone there. I was going to a new school, a new environment, Catholic school. We had to wear... Predominantly white, right?

Predominantly white, shirt and tie, penny loafers. We had a uniform structure. It was just totally different.

But, again, I can't say enough what I was able to learn and how that's affected me moving forward in my adult life. But I tried, Jimmy. I tried what you did and it didn't work. It just didn't work. Hey, listen.

So you mentioned, you mentioned San Francisco. When I was in high school, for whatever reason, Ohio had a law where we could not play at the same because it wasn't sanctioned. So I had become... I played at River Rouge in the summertime. I played Sandy Sanders. But I also played over at Belmont, over at the church. Everybody plays at Belmont. On Sundays. So D.C. Funches back in the day. Oh, wow. Come on.

I see Funches all the time. He goes to Michigan game because his son played receiver there. But that's where I had to come and play because I couldn't play at the scene. Because they wouldn't allow it in Ohio.

You would lose your eligibility. But I learned so much by playing and developed, I would think, a confidence as I started going to Belmont right after my freshman year. It's Sunday morning. That was the run. Sunday morning. You know who took me? Melvin Newburn. Oh, really?

It's from Toledo. Everybody was there. The mural Magic on the Wall.

Yeah, yeah. Everyone was there. That's where I met D.C. I met D.C. I think it was in eighth or ninth grade. That's when I first met Derrick Coleman. And quick D.C. story. So Derrick came up there and the best player at that time in the city.

Because that's where you got your reputation. You had to be the best at the Saint and you had to be the best at Belmont. There was a young man, rest in peace, Roy Tarpley. Oh, yeah. I played with Roy.

Yeah, yeah. Roy was there. And it was this young gangly kid. And that was D.C. And that's when I first met Derrick, you know, coming up to the runs at Belmont. So everyone came to Belmont. I must have missed you.

I must have missed you for some reason during that time. But everyone came up there, whether you were pro, high school, college, and the very best of the best. As you know, they're very competitive games.

And if once you lost, you probably didn't get back on the court because it was a long line. I'm telling you. Yeah.

But it was great. But that's how I met D.C. I just spoke to D.C. actually a couple of days ago. So we all keeping, you know, all of Detroit guys.

I'm sure like all you guys, Dennis Hobson, everybody. I just spoke to your man, Oak, you know, a couple of days ago as well. Oh, did you talk to Oak?

Yeah, you know, Oak driving around the country as usual. But no, that was interesting that you played up there because that was such a great time. And that's where we, that's how all of us learned how to play.

You playing on Sunday, you called your own files. And they were very competitive games. Well, you talked about greatness too, and you've been around it enough in the NBA about what you're doing from an agency perspective.

Is it a fair question? And I know you were on the podcast, you talked about different things, like the greatest player. And I see you got the Michael Jordan, you got the Michael Jordan jersey behind you, you got the Magic Johnson, Barry Burr. And the conversation is always going to come up with, you know, with Mike and LeBron and whoever else you want to throw in there. But is it really a fair comparison based on the times in which they play?

Or do you look at it as a microcosm of their skill set and say it doesn't matter when you start to look at who's the greatest? Well, Jimmy, you know, look, I can have this conversation with you because you understand. OK, let's get out of the business of the media and all of that.

Let's be a couple of guys like you and I just talking now. We all know because of our backgrounds of playing professionally, right? And a lot of people doesn't have this perspective. We know that the rules were different. The rules currently now are different.

The travel is different. The refereeing is different. So it is an unfair comparison to say who is the greatest because everyone's not playing by the same rules. Right.

Let's make that clear that it's impossible. Right. So how what Oscar Robertson and the late Bill Russell and the late Will Chamberlain and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Magic Johnson, Larry Bird. It's unfair to compare them to today's players because they were dealing with a different set of circumstances. Equipment is different.

The sneakers are different. The gymnasiums in which they're playing, the travel, food, training. There's so many things that we can throw into the equation before we start saying who's the greatest in order to have an accurate assessment of that. Everyone's got to play by the same rules. Now, just a simple rule. When you and I play impeding of progress, it's a big thing. Jimmy, that's a big thing.

So imagine you. I'm still I can still remember in nineteen ninety four ninety five when you and Jamal Mashburn came to the United Center and Jamal Mass put a 50 on us and then you put a 38 on us. Right. And that was that was with like hand checking. OK, so we know that the game is different. You and I weren't shooting threes irresponsibly like we see the players are shooting today. We weren't playing pace and space. We had to throw it into the big guy, get to the post, and then we operated out of that. We had to do things.

There was a it was a different time. So when I hear these comparisons, they're great for the barbershop. They're great for TV. They're great for debate.

They're great for all of the things that we love about the media. However, because of our you know, our we were fortunate enough to play, we both know that that was that was different. So it's an unfair comparison.

I admire these players today for the era that they're playing in. But let me assure you that if Jimmy Jackson and I saw you and I played against you, I know you were a 25 to 30 point score easily in this era because I saw you in the previous era. OK. And that era was a little different because they were hand checking. It was a little bit more physical. I'm not saying it's better.

It was just a different game defensively. People weren't switching like that. They just you know, everyone switches now. You know, you'll come off the screen now and a guy 511 would be guarding you. Well, a guy six six couldn't guard you.

I know a guy 511 was going to guard you on a switch based on your skill set and how you played. So it's a different time. It's a different era.

And I always try to appreciate the areas in which, you know, playing. And and then you look at it and say, now, which do you think would transfer from one era to another? These players without question could have played in that era. But let me assure you, it was a different time.

Just like if you played in today's era, it would be a different time. So, you know, I just try to look at it holistically. But it's a fun debate. I mean, I enjoy it.

I enjoy people's arguments, though. For business owners like you, the American Express Business Platinum Card works just as hard as you do to help you pursue your passions. With its world class business and travel benefits, you can get more for your business wherever it takes you. The Amex Business Platinum Card offers a flexible spending limit that adapts with your business, enabling you to flex and adapt as your business evolves. And you'll earn five times membership rewards points on flights and prepaid hotels booked on AmexTravel.com. So that going that extra mile for your business is even more rewarding. See how the Amex Business Platinum Card gives business owners like you the tools and rewards to do more of what you love. Not all purchases will be approved. Terms apply.

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What time is it? Game time. You know, here's my biggest thing is that it's really hard because if you look at numbers, Karim's numbers from high school, seven game win streak, ninety six and six to his college, three times the national player of the year. I mean, they took the dunk away because of Karim. OK, just how dominant he was.

And then his domination in, you know, the NBA. OK, you have the most unstoppable shot. If you look at totality of this basketball, Karim, to me, is the best. Never did it. Totality.

OK. Yep, yep, yep. And I'm so happy you said that, Jimmy, because if you look at the most accomplished player perhaps ever, you would have to say Karim Abdul-Jabbar. Karim.

You go to high school, you go what he did in college. Three years in memory because he couldn't play as a freshman in college. So the most accomplished player has to be Karim Abdul-Jabbar. No doubt about it. You know that you know what he was able to.

It speaks for itself like there's never there hasn't been a player more accomplished than Karim Abdul-Jabbar. All right. So when you say that. In the discussion, you can argue however you want to argue it. Here, here are the numbers.

Here are the numbers. If you just want to say accomplishments individually, collectively, Karim Abdul-Jabbar is standing at the top of that list. You know, you know, what's interesting, too, is that you get this you get this debate, too, about can LeBron play or Steph play back in the 90s, especially Steph, because they say, well, he's too small, whatever.

And here's my comeback to that. I said, you can't transfer Steph's current game and mentality and take it back to the late 80s, 90s, because one, he'd be taught to play a lot different. He wouldn't be shooting 30, 40 footers.

OK. And if that's the case, a BJ Armstrong, a Muggsy Bulbs, a D Brown, Michael Adams, Dana Barrows, all of these smaller guards wouldn't be able to. They played in the 90s. And the reason why they grew up playing in the alley, in the backyard, at the park, in small gyms.

So they were accustomed to the physical play. So I would say Steph, if he had skill set, he would spud. You would learn to play the way it was in the 90s. And Steph would be a totally different player.

Not to say that he couldn't compete. He would just be a different form of Steph. Now, I take it a step further and I say Shaq would be a different player today. To me, he would be more like MB with regards to his skill set, because coming up at the age of 11, 12, 13, he wouldn't be put in the polls.

He'll be picking pop space. So his game would be totally different. So to your point, to transfer talent and say this player would be a certain way, and you play with Michael Jordan.

Michael Jordan was low post, mid range, got to a spot. But if he played in today's era, yes, he would have that dog and he would have that fire. But he wouldn't be in the polls playing like that, because that's not what guards do. His game would be different, not his mentality. I'm saying his game would be different. Am I off on that?

No, you're absolutely right. Some players transfer regardless of what era they're in. When I look at Shaq, Shaq was the first player that I saw in our era that had the physical capabilities to challenge Michael Jordan from a dominance. Now, there were others, right? Akeem Olajuwon certainly was there, and you had other great players.

But I saw a force that couldn't be stopped. Now, the thing about Shaq that I always admire is because Shaq didn't compensate, and he was unapologetic being big. He knew he was big.

Now, today, you have to take into account, Jim, because you do not only pro games, you do college games. You have big guys who are big, and then you have guys who are tall. Shaq was a big man. Okay, you have big guys who are big. That's the big man. That's the big fella.

And then you have tall guys. Porzingis is tall. Shaq is big. Jokic is a big man. He's a big man. He plays big. The one thing about Shaq that I knew, and Shaq demanded this, is that you treated him like a big man. Many of these big guys today, I'm watching them do things like they're doing five-out offense, and then they're doing dribble weave.

Now, I don't know what era or what coach would ask Shaq to do a dribble weave on the perimeter, but Shaq knew where his bread was buttered, and he knew what he could do as a big man. Wait, but wasn't that because that's how he was taught to play back then? What if he grows up now, the same size, he's taught to play differently, though, right? He's not getting 15, 20 gestures on the block.

I agree with you. He would be taught different, but however, there is an awareness of knowing what you can and can't do. The players today are coming into the league so young, they're still not aware of their skill set.

That's why we depend on development. Shaq came into the league and knew, hey, I'm big. He came in saying, I'm big.

Shaq wasn't trying to figure out how to post up. Now, that's one thing he did from day one when he stepped into this league. That's what I've always admired about guys who went to college. You learn about yourself. You learn about your game. When you came into this league, on day one, you could score that basketball. Now, the other thing is you picked up.

Oh, I got to learn how to defend this guy. I got to learn. When I first saw you, you could put that ball in the basket. Now, I don't know how you had that awareness, but you knew that about yourself.

That's where you learn about yourself. Shaq was very aware that he was a big man, always played like a big man. Thank goodness he was a nice man because Shaq had a mean streak in him. And when he did get mad, there was nothing you could do. There was nothing you could do against him. So I think Shaq would have been great in any era because Shaq had a self-awareness.

The great players all have an awareness. Like, you know, Michael could have shot threes. He could have shot any shot he wanted.

He had the purple light. He could have did everything he wanted. But he had the discipline. He had the discipline to say, this is what I do.

This is how I do it. And now everyone's got to figure out, you know, how to, you know, function around that because he was so efficient. And he was a he was an expert at what he did. So when you are playing with a great player, they have this unwavering confidence. And I just think that transfers. Now, everyone doesn't have that confidence.

And sometimes you can easily be, you know, sidetracked with trying different things. However, the great players, they just know, like, I don't know how they know. They just figured it out at some point and then they perfect it. And then, as they say, the rest is history. Well, great perspective, too.

And for those who don't know, Vijay, transition agent with Wasserman, also represents their roles, but been around the game from the management perspective, but also now representing players. And this is the question right here in today's world. Ratings are down a little bit compared to, you know, a few years ago or even last year. In your mind, is the game in a good place? And if not, what needs to change? Or if it is, why?

Well, you know, Jimmy, that's that's a great question. And I love basketball. So wherever the ball is bouncing, the shoes are squeaking, there's always something to learn.

However, I think if there's one criticism of the game or one thing that we can discuss is the way the game is played during the regular season as compared to where the game is played during the playoffs. You know, we've really, in my humble opinion, now we've gone a little bit too far now with the three point shooting. I love to shoot, you know, being a three point shooter myself.

Right. That sounds kind of odd for me because you're saying, wow, man, this guy I shot at a high clip when I played, you know, in the NBA. However, there has to be a balance, Jimmy.

You know, there has to be a balance. And being a scorer, being the number one or number two or number three option on your team, that requires you to have the discipline to not only just take shots because your play is being called. You have to have the discipline to be able to take the best available shot. Right. The more uncontested shots that you can get, the better your team is, the better it is for the game. But more importantly, if we're going to put the emphasis on winning, not just scoring points, not just playing a style because three is more than two. There is a responsibility.

Right. And, you know, you were a scorer. I had to be a distributor and a guy who had to play so that I can provide the spacing for the guys to score. Well, that came with the responsibility. Jimmy, if you got double team, you had a responsibility to pass it to me.

Why? Because you knew in the fourth quarter, you're going to have to take that shot. OK, so there was a responsibility to pass it to your teammates so that you can set up the other facets of the game so you can dictate the tempo, so you can dictate time and score and all these things. Well, now, Jimmy, what you're seeing is people are just playing irregardless of time and score, which really de-emphasizes of why we play the game. Are you trying to win the game or are you just playing because you got to get up fifty threes?

Because now I'm seeing people shoot a three on a two on one break. Well, wait a minute. Hold on.

Time out. You're seeing guys just shoot threes now with no responsibility. So I get it.

Three is more than two. However, we want quality shots and every good team when they get to the playoffs. Right.

You have to get the most high. You got to get the highest quality shots that you possibly can because the defense every time you advance improves. So I would like to see the emphasis on let's get the highest quality shot regardless if it's if it's if the team is giving you sixty threes.

So be it. But you can't tell me as I'm watching the games that everyone. That's the defensive scheme of all 30 teams because we're all all 30 teams are playing the same exact way. So with that saying, I just think we should get back to saying, what is the strength of your team?

What's the strength of that player? What's the strength of giving this group the best chance to win in today's NBA? Because everyone is not Steph Curry. If he is the if he is the level of excellence where there's only one of him, I get why he's shooting threes. But when you watch the other teams, you're saying, wait a minute, why is this guy shooting threes? He's shooting, you know, a 25 percent clip or whatever he is.

But I just would like to see the game get back to utilizing the strengths of the players that are available. Getting back to saying we want, you know, quality shots. We want to get we want to execute and play our brand, our style of basketball, you know. And when we played, the Lakers had showtime of Celtics played a certain way. The Bulls had the triangle offense. When you were in Dallas, you guys had your style.

The Denver Nuggets had theirs. Everyone had their style. The Detroit Pistons had a style. But we all weren't playing the same exact way.

This is what gets me. How can all 30 teams say this is, you know, this is how we play in today's game? Well, you know, and it's interesting because the last three champions done it differently. You still had Golden State who did it with their small ball lineup kind of the 21-22 season when they beat the Celtics. OK, but then Denver was different.

They don't shoot a lot of threes. You know, it was it was Jokic running the show and it was Jamal Murray hitting big shots. It was right, you know, you know, KCP doing his thing on the side.

It was Aaron Gordon. So they were built and ran a little bit. Then you had Boston who spread you out five across, could all shoot threes. And but but it's interesting you talk about that because as much as teams want to emulate each other.

I just gave you three examples of the last three champions that did it different. Golden State did it their way. Denver did it their way and Boston is doing it their way. Boston shoots 40 percent of their shots come from behind a three point line. So I don't know the answer if it gets back to the balance of the two because of the way teams look at analytics. I don't know if we get that dynamic of a more of a balance of two point shots compared to three.

I don't know. I don't know where the game is going because it continues to evolve. But it will be interesting now with that said to talk about the Ravens winning. Did you see any of the Emirates Cup? Yeah, I've been watching. I watch every listen. I watch the game. I'm addicted to the game. It doesn't matter.

I can watch any I can. You want one of those skeptics early? Like, oh, what are they doing with it in season term? Well, I I didn't quite understand it, but because I'm in this global business, I have to understand the global perspective. Right. You know, when you go to Europe and you go around the world, you know, it's just kind of you know, this is just emulating what the rest of the world is doing. It just happened now. They're doing it here in the United States in the NBA. So this isn't a new concept. It just happened to be new here in the NBA. So I'm fascinated by it.

I watch it. You know, what's interesting to me is that the coaches coach different, the players play different. And now they're playing for something within the regular season. So I get it.

I understand it. However, you know, it's going to take some time for the American audience who doesn't view European basketball, for instance, or Euro Cup or Euro League to understand the concept of this end season tournament. The Emirates, I think it's the Emirates Cup. Yeah, there you go.

Emirates, it was the NBA Cup last year. Now we got a title spot. You and I, we're talking basketball, but not about the business. That's another conversation.

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Shopify dot com slash Westwood one. OK, but but in your current role to be an agent and we'll talk about the European players real quick, is that it's so much talk about how much more skilled the European players are coming out and ready to play. Right. Which is true in some aspects.

And I think my my good friend Brian Scott, a brandy, brought this up and I thought it was a key point. When we talk about European development and you're out there scouting kids and you're watching, he made a great point that we're always identifying the European big as being the model of which American players, American bigs need to emulate. But if their development system is so good. How come the guards over there are not coming over here planning and dominating? It seemed and Brian brought this up, which was a great point, that as much as we want to talk about the European brand of basketball and grooming and growing, that's great for big men. But when it comes to guards, the Americans still dominate that conversation because the European guards haven't been able to come over to America and have that same impact as the European big.

What's your thoughts on that? Well, I'm going to try to make this as short as possible because that's a good question. OK, so first, when you look at the game, you have FIBA rules, which is a totally different game than, let's say, the NCAA rules, which is a different game than high school rules, which is a different game from AAU, which is a different game from the NBA. OK, let's establish this right now. I go all around the world watching basketball. The only place in the world the NBA game is taught is in the NBA. Think about that. Just think about that right there. The only place in the world that the NBA game is taught is in the NBA.

That's the only that's the only this is the only place. So now we're looking for transferable skills that will transfer to the game that's only played here. It's much easier for a big to transfer and play in the NBA than it is for a guard because a guard has to manage the game. You won't see the speed and quickness in Europe that you see here.

OK, now, what does this mean? I can let's take the Olympics. How come Serbia, for instance, France, for instance, how come they how can they play against our all star caliber players that we send over there? How can they play in a very competitive game in the Olympics because of the rules? The rules are different. The game is different. The way you coach the game is different.

So it takes away certain aspects that are that we're accustomed to talking about. So when you talk about basketball, you have to take into account the rules, the structure of the game. Now, the most important thing now, which in my opinion, now, this is my opinion, what has happened is the coaching over there is better than the coaching is over here now.

Why? Because they have a system of coaching. You have to be certified to coach on the lower level, even if it's not the professional side of it.

You've got to have certifications and qualifications. You just can't be a Euro league coach. You can't just be a Euro Cup coach. You can't just coach because you like basketball.

There is a certification process. Their coaches coach like we used to coach in the 80s and the 90s, because that's where they all learned it. 92 was an important event that happened in the 92 Olympics, because for the first time, the rest of the world had a chance to see our very best players in person and learn and study. So when you look at Jokic, when you look at Lukadontius, when you look at these players, now they had a vision to see what our best look like live, not on tape. They only saw Larry Bird and Magic Johnson, these guys on tape. Well, in 92, they saw. They saw them live.

They knew they were seeing the best. Then you started seeing all of the coaches go over there and started coaching their coaches. Now, when you watch Euro league, they play more physical than we do now, because their coaching, they were influenced by all of those coaches in the 80s and the 90s. It's no wonder that today's players, right, because I've been watching this now for 30, 35 years. There's no wonder that these players are better.

Why? Because they play like all of the people that you see right here. They're emulating those players.

That's the difference. Now we have a different way of playing. You don't see them playing pace and space over there. When you go over there, you're not driving to the basket and getting a layup.

No, they're playing like we used to play. They're playing a game. You don't come down and just shoot a three there. No, you come down and you make your passes. You're setting screens.

You're doing cuts. You're running sets. Now, if they play what we call advantage basketball, you have a three on two. OK, you can play. Two on one, you can play. Four against three, you can play.

If not, we're going to run something. They're very responsible. And they, if you look at their best players that are coming over here now, it's one element that they have with all of their players. They can pass the ball regardless of position. OK, all of their guys can pass the ball.

So there are some things that transfer, right? We're talking about good teams. What's the three things that all good teams have to do?

They have to defend. They have to rebound and they have to share the ball. OK. Jokic, once he improved defensively, the rest is history because he can rebound and pass with the greatest of them. It's just any big that can pass the ball. OK, Karim, Wilt, Akeem, because those guys had they can catch the ball from an operating area on the post and pass to the other four guys. Jokic is just a fascinating player because he can pass the ball to all four guys for 48 minutes.

I mean, Jimmy, that's unheard of. That's unheard of for a player to be that good, to be able to pass the ball to the other four guys and be big when he needs to. You can't play small ball against him. Same with Joel Embiid. Same now with Giannis.

I mean, Giannis is already a two time MVP. Luka Doncic, these guys can pass the ball now at a clip that we just hadn't seen. So that's the advantage that they have. They understand the aspect of playing with the other four guys better than our young players here in America. If you're just saying if you want to compare the difference, they have to pass the ball when you play over there. That's a requirement.

There's no one on one. There's no like isolation basketball. They have to play a team concept. But, you know, it's the NBA game is a different it's a different game. And now at some point, which we will, we'll get back to the basics of the game. We will get back to what was our advantage.

We have to play a blended brand of basketball. The great players are always going to get the most plays. However, today's best players are going to have to learn how to play with the other four guys. And now we kind of got away from that. And that's what you're seeing right now.

The difference between the Europeans that are coming over here or the international players and the players that are from America. We're not playing a blended brand of basketball. That's what made Larry Bird great. That's what made Kareem great.

That's what made Magic great. They played a blended brand of basketball that was just far superior. No one player, no matter how good you are, as you know, Jimmy, you can't beat a team that plays together. And when you put that combination now, you're in an elite category as a player and as a team. Now, I love that explanation, man, and it breaks down the differences between mentality, the coaching, the style. I think the style of play, what you talked about, too, being taught a certain way and about the passing aspect, because that skill set is so underrated. Coaches talk about the passing aspect, but you see a lot of flaws with a lot of our players with regarding just being able to make some real simple passes.

Especially post passes or reading the defense, man. I love that thought process, and that's why I want to ask you that. Before we get out of here, though, I had to ask you this, so this is the good part right here. I need to get, give me one of your best Michael Jordan stories, whether it was from practice, a game, something for you.

I know how far you were in practice, but give me one that probably people don't know. Yeah, you know, it's so many stories, and I always try to respect privacy. So privacy of the things that I was able to share with him, he was just so impactful. But the thing that I always remembered from him, and that he always encouraged me and I'm sure others, is to never, ever lose your confidence.

Ever. And one of the most impressive things was him, and I saw him do some incredible things. But I remember one night we were playing, and I think the story was even in the last dance, where he had just an awful game versus the Washington Bullets. And I think he missed like 18, 19 shots in a row. I was just so impressed with his confidence, Jimmy, that he didn't hesitate. The 20th shot came around, he was beautiful. And Jimmy, you know how it is, you know, you missed five in a row, you're like, man, you know, I got to get to the free throw line.

I got to take a good shot. Okay, the confidence that this man had, Jimmy, was beyond. Okay, and I, you know, listen, I'm going to tell you this, and I remember after the plane, and you know how it is, Jimmy, you know, like, you know, like you try to maintain whether, you know, you had a good game, bad game, whatever. But this particular game, after the game, he wasn't happy at all. And he was, you know, normally he's bubbly, he's playing cards, he's this, whatever, he's, you know, he's being MJ.

But this night, he was just sitting in the back. So I thought, hey, let me just go check on this guy. And I just said, hey, man, how you doing? You all right? You good?

You know, just checking on you. He was in the back, everybody else is, whatever, doing what they do. And he was like, yeah, I'm good. And I remember he told me, he said, whatever that kid had in the first half, I'm going to have that in the first half.

Yeah, whatever that kid did in the first game, I'm going to have that in the first half. But the confidence to say that, Jimmy, was like, man, I just watched you miss 19 shots in a row. Like, it was just the confidence was there, you know what I mean?

Like, you can't coach that, you can't, you know, you can't duplicate that, either you have that or not. He's always been my favorite because of his confidence. Like, I've never seen someone with this level of confidence, this level of focus.

It's one thing to talk, but it's another thing to go out there every night and do it because you're playing against the very best players in the world. I was so impressed with the 20th shot when he finally made a shot, because I remember what he said. He was like, okay, B, I'm good now. Because he made the 20th shot and he was like, okay, I'm good now, let's go. And I was like, what game is he watching?

Like, I was looking around like this, like, what game did he say? I think he just missed the last 19 shots and he was like, okay, I got it now, you know? But that- That's like you can't leave the court without making your last shot.

Yeah, exactly. But it was just that level of confidence that I was like, okay, we go out there with everybody shooting thousands of shots a day. This man had a confidence that was just beyond. And he wasn't talking it, he believed it. He believed in himself. He believed in the work he had put in. But more importantly, he just had a self-awareness that you can't imagine. And that's what I admired most about him. And even when you talk to him today, he still has that level of confidence. And it's the funniest thing, because now we're all old. But he still has the confidence that he had as a young man.

And that is what I give to this generation. Never lose confidence in yourself by the work you put in. And I saw someone do it. You can't fake that. You can't fake the hard work. And you always find out who you really are when things aren't going right.

And I saw a man miss his first 18 or 19 shots. And to me, I would have changed something about my game. I would have changed something. But him, he's like, no, I got it.

This is what I do. And I was like, you know what? Hey, I threw it to him. I just wanted to see it.

I was like, okay, let me just see what this guy's going to do. And as you know, the story goes, then he went into Washington the next night. But I just remember the missed shots. I just remember that it was clear to me, because I was trying to get him going.

We need you to win. And it just wasn't there that night. But you couldn't tell him he wasn't there. He still believed it. And, you know, just – Rest in history, brother.

Oh, yeah. It was classic. I was just so – I was just – I was in shock. I was just like, let me see how many he's going to miss before he finally says, I got to do something different. It just never registered.

It didn't register. I was like, man, where do I get that type of confidence from? I mean, but that's what makes the great – the greatest great because of that mentality. Man. And you've been through it, man. And I say congratulations to you on a great career, NBA-wide. Thank you.

But post-career, what you're doing with the young men who are trying to find themselves early in their career from a basketball perspective. Keep doing your thing, man. I'd love to get you back on as we get on. Jimmy, thank you. You're always in my – you're always in my home. Thank you for the work you've done during your career. You know, you came – I remember you gave me 38 that night and you were nice about it.

You know, you smiled when you didn't. You gave me 38 that night. You know, you're a young player and I was like, okay.

But no, I'm so happy for you and what you do in a post-career as well. And thank you and thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it.

You got it. Thanks, brother. Happy holidays. Merry Christmas to you too.

You and the family. You too. I thought what's interesting, I think BJ Armstrong for jumping on, is that, you know, you had to have a certain amount of confidence. He was talking about don't lose your confidence. You had to have a certain amount of confidence to play with the Michael Jordan, with the Kobe Bryant when things weren't going right for you to still be able to step up. So I thought it was very interesting that he was amazed at what Michael Jordan was able to do mentally when he wasn't playing well, he didn't have a game.

But yet he still, for BJ too, and other players, they also had to have a short memory and a memory and a confidence, you know MJ. Expected a lot out of you so great interview by BJ and I appreciate that. I want to thank everybody for joining me this week. I know holiday season is coming up. Emirates Cup is coming up this weekend. The semifinal game is on Saturday. Championship is on Tuesday, so by next week when I'm on the road with the Clippers will be in Dallas for that home and home baseball series will have a new Emirates Cup champ.

We can talk about that. So I want you to enjoy your weekend. Enjoy the games. Enjoy the Cup. I appreciate all the support and I get at you next week once I'm in Dallas.

Take care. As we know in the National Football League, there is no margin for error. One mistake can change the outcome of entire game season careers. Science proves quality sleep can help boost reaction time, recovery time, and overall athletic performance. That's why 80% of NFL players have a sleep number smart bed. 80% of the Chiefs have a sleep number. Smartbed 90% of the Vikings 95% of the Rams have a smart bed. The official sleep and Wellness partner of the National Football League Sleep numbers mission is to provide players with data and insight. To optimize their sleep for the ultimate competitive edge, my sleep number setting is 60. My wife says 7010 numbers apart means the world of difference. Why choose a sleep number smart bed so you can choose your ideal comfort on either side. And now during our holiday sale, save 40% on the sleep number special edition smart bed. Plus special financing limited time only to sleep number store or at sleepnumber.com sleep number, official sleep and Wellness partner of the NFL C store for details.