The Jim Jackson Show: Mateen Cleaves

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Learn more at AmericanExpress.com slash Amex Business. Hello, hello, hello. What's up? Welcome in. It's The Jim Jackson Show, episode number three. Thank you for joining me. You can find The Jim Jackson Show at The Jim Jackson Show on Instagram, but also on YouTube slash Rich Eisen.

You can watch the full episode there. So I'm excited to be back. It's a lot of news, a lot of notes, a lot of things going on right now to talk about. But I want to break down a couple of things early, especially in the NBA season.

Some of the headlines that are going on, a lot of conversation. Unfortunately, has to be around some key injuries to some key people at the beginning of the season. You know, Joel Embiid is out right now with some swelling. Is the Paul George hyperextended his leg, his knee, but it was more of a bone bruise, I believe it was. Isaiah Hardenstein out five to six weeks with a hand injury.

Jaron Jackson Jr., even with the Memphis Dribbles, you got Jaron Jackson Jr. But Vince Williams, Gigi Jackson, three key players to, you know, what they need to get started. And it dawned on me, Luca Doncic is not going to play, you know, the remainder of the preseason. Kawhi Leonard has been announced that, of course, he'll be out at extended period of time. And they may not happen until, you know, a little bit later into the season when he returns.

And I covered the Clippers, so I've been privy to that information. But it kind of just plays into the fact that people talking about, here's a conversation. Is preseason relevant enough to continue to go on in its current format for people to play with injuries being at the forefront? I mean, I guess you can talk about that with football as well in regards to the preseason to keep players play.

And I'm kind of up in the air about it because at the beginning of the season, you want and TV wants and fans want to be able to have your stars on the court at the beginning of the season. Injuries happen sometimes like that. Isaiah Hardin Stein, the hand injury, something you can't prevent.

Paul Georges may be a little bit different. He's 34 years old, a lot of wear and tear on the body. He's had injuries in the past. Maybe that injury doesn't happen to a 24 year old.

We don't know. But being in that situation in preseason now pushes his timetable to start up again and kind of see where they're at. Philly vying for a championship. And I go back and forth with it all the time. Like in order to play and play at a high level, you've got to be on the court. But then there is always, there's always been an intrinsic risk of injury.

I don't care what sport it is. I don't care how hard you train, what you do to prevent it. Some things just happen when you come down on somebody's ankle.

I don't care how much training you've done for that. You can't prevent that. Now, what you can prevent is the severity at times of it because of your training.

But it's hard to avoid it. So do you, does the NBA, are teams discussing the relevancy of preseason? They've cut the number of games down.

They cut how much you go to camp and does. And I got to look at this number and see by reducing the number of days of training camp, how has that impacted early injuries? Because when I came into the league, you know, we went to camp and we were in camp all of October, basically. And then we started to play preseason games. So you had a week of basically two a days and you ramped yourself up through preseason. You played seven, eight, nine games and then you started the season. So I meant to start to do my research a little bit more to see the impact of lessening training camp and the result. Does that result into more early injuries for players?

It is very interesting dynamic to me because of that aspect. But speaking of injuries, which, you know, we'll get back to and we kind of follow all year. How about the return of Lonzo Ball? I mean, I love Lonzo when he played at UCLA.

I got a chance to cover him. And then at New Orleans, of course, the Lakers. But what he was able to do at New Orleans, I thought he would start able to grow. And the potential of what we saw when he finally got to Chicago and kind of was running the team.

And think about this. Lonzo hasn't played since January 2022. He hasn't laced him up, been on the court.

It would be interesting to see how mentally he's able to adjust to the game today, not being full goal in almost three years. Listen, I got injured my third year, sprained ankle, third degree sprain. I was rolling at the time, 51 games into the season. I had my career ahead of me, then boom.

Gone, set out the rest, the remaining 31 games was never the same player. They said it would have been better if I would have broke my ankle. Then the third degree, third degree sprain.

Why is because. A third degree sprain, basically, whenever you sprain your ankle, you tear and stretch your ligaments. Those things can be healed as much as always at the threshold before you break it.

Bone can heal a lot better and easier and more structurally sound than that. So not only did it affect my ankle, but it actually affected my knee where I had severe tendonitis and also, you know, atrophy in my quad. But more importantly, it affected the mental part and how I play. And that was one injury, but it affected everything I did.

It totally changed how I play. Imagine Lonzo Ball going through this for two years, almost three, three years. Klay Thompson, what he had to go through. Grant Hill, Penny Hardaway, dealing with the mental part.

And to see Lonzo back on the court healthy. Now, it's a fallacy to say to me, I don't want to get back on the court until I'm 100 percent. If you start to play this game when you're a young person and you've had injuries, you're never going to be 100 percent. Can you be 85? 90? Yes.

100 percent, you have to come out the womb and start all over again. So we use the phrase, I want to be 100 percent, but we're never fully really 100 percent because we have little nagging injuries that are always going to be there. But to see him back on the court. I mean, shout out to the medical staff there with the Bulls to kind of do it the right way to get him back where he's healthy. And I tell you what, the interesting part is to see how he plays. I would imagine at the beginning, even though he's full speed, he'll probably shoot more jump shots. He probably won't push it as much until he gets comfortable because we knew Lonzo love to get down.

He'll get into the pain and kick it out. But I think at the beginning, we'll see him shoot more threes. Feel his body out because now he'll be able to have an important role with that Bulls team, which. Kind of puts some pressure on Billy Donovan because you have a lot of guards with Kobe White, you know, in their eye, Odysseumu, you know, that guard rotation is very deep.

So depth is one thing, but a plethora of death also causes a little playing time issue. So it's going to be interesting to see what happens with the Chicago Bulls. But I'm happy that NBA season is back rolling third week right now, getting ready for the opening night next week. Injuries played a major role. But I tell you what, this is going to be an exciting season for a number of different reasons.

A number of unanswered questions are going to be opposed. Can Denver Nuggets with the retooling kind of of their team get there? Can OKC handle the pressure of being the team to beat?

Does Minnesota with the change take the next step? Philly, can they be healthy enough throughout the course of the season to be able to contend for a title? Boston Celtics repeating is always a challenge. What's your motivation? Can you get through it? Of course, the Knicks.

Where are they at? Tough minded. Carl Anthony Towns.

How does that work? Can Miami be a factor in that equation as well? All these questions are going to be answered as we roll into the season. And I'll be right here for you the whole time. But before we kind of get to kind of diving into some other things about the season, I got a special guest coming on.

When I say special, I mean special. A player that I admired by watching him play at Michigan State, his desires to determination, his grittiness. I mean, the ultimate leader point guard. Now I got a chance to play with him in Sacramento and kind of learn the person that he was and has become.

And now what he's doing in his current role with Matt Ishpia and his mortgage company, Mr. Mateen Cleese will join the show a little bit later. So stay tuned for that. For business owners like you, the American Express Business Platinum Card works just as hard as you do to help you pursue your passions. With its world class business and travel benefits, you can get more for your business wherever it takes you. The Amex Business Platinum Card offers a flexible spending limit that adapts with your business, enabling you to flex and adapt as your business evolves. And you'll earn five times membership rewards points on flights and prepaid hotels booked on AmexTravel.com. So that going that extra mile for your business is even more rewarding. See how the Amex Business Platinum Card gives business owners like you the tools and rewards to do more of what you love. Not all purchases will be approved. Terms apply.

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That's OReillyAuto.com slash E-I-S-E-N. O-O-O-Reilly Auto Parts. As promised, a really dear friend of mine, former teammate of the Sacramento Kings, a two-time Big Ten Player of the Year. He's a McDonald's All-American also, 2000 national champion with the Michigan State Spartans, but also drafted in 2000, 2001 to the Detroit Pistons.

Close to Flint, of course, as the 14th overall pick, my man, Clevel. Mateen Cleves, how you doing, brother? How you doing, brother?

I'm doing fantastic, fantastic. And you got to mention the fanboy because I'm a fanboy. I know me and you, we built a great relationship when I played at Sacramento. But I'll be remiss not to let people know how much respect I have for you.

And you as a big brother, how I grew up watching that number 22 on CBS Sports Network and CBS, you know, running up and down that court, putting in work. So it's always a pleasure to be in your presence, to be around you. And it's definitely a pleasure to be on your show. You know, what's interesting is that when we got together in Sacramento, I mean, we clicked immediately, which is almost like we knew each other from the past.

Even though we've crossed paths, but we somehow got together. And one of the best things you did for me, though, at the time, my son Trey was probably eight, nine years old. And we would go work out at the gym and you would sit and take the time and work out with my son when you really didn't have to. And I appreciate that, bro. That says a lot about you as an individual and why you're still successful. You took the time and say, you know what, Jack, I got you. I'm going to work out with Trey.

Don't even worry about it. Remember those times? One hundred percent, man. One of the best times in my life. And it was good to see him go on and do great things. You did a heck of a job raising him, but you know how we do it. We family, baby. That's how we get down. Toledo, Flint, you know, it's just like, it's the same. It's the same. That's how we connect.

It is. So speaking of which, and I'm going to get back into our Sacramento days, but kind of walk me through right now, career wise, where you're at, what you're doing. I know you do a lot of motivational speaking right now with Matt Ishpia and his company. But just kind of walk me through and walk the audience right now and our fans right now and kind of give them an update of what Mateen Cleaves is doing right now.

Well, I appreciate you giving me the platform to show everybody that I'm doing big things, baby. But yeah, man, right now I'm working at UWM, which is United Wholesale Mortgage. We're the number one overall lender in America. Like you mentioned, Matt Ishpia, that's our CEO and most people know him now for buying the Phoenix Suns. But, you know, me and Matt go way back to our Michigan State days. You know, I was a junior when he came in his freshman year. So Matt, that's like my little brother. I always tell people I'm the only one in our company.

We got over 9000 people that can still put him in the headlock and not get in trouble. But right now I'm at UWM and my title is Director of Leadership Coaching and Motivation. And what it was, like Matt had the vision for me at UWM. When he talked to me about getting in the mortgage industry at first, I was like, nah, man. It just, it don't seem fun. Mortgage is like, nothing seems fun about that.

And he was saying, trust me, he said, you're going to love it. It gets competitive. We compete with a lot of people. The culture he's built at UWM is more like a basketball coach or family, which is probably unique.

A lot of people don't have that in corporate America. And he brought me on board. He had the vision for me. He wanted me to come in and join his leadership development team and help be one of the leaders on the leadership development team. And my job is to simply sit with our leaders and help support them and coach them on how to get the best out of other people.

To be honest, what I did when I played basketball. But Matt had the vision and thought that it would be a great spot for me to come to UWM to help his leaders. And that's what I was brought on board to do now.

The speaking part just kind of came organically. I wasn't brought there to actually speak. But once I got there, not only working with the leadership and the leaders at the company and everybody around the company, they started having me speak to our clients. And now, not only do I speak to them, I go out to speak at different mortgage events or different events that they put on. Everybody's kind of requesting me to come speak now.

It's actually funny to me because I have to remind people that's not my job. I've kind of evolved into the speaking, the speaker. But my job, Jimmy, is I sit and meet with our leaders on a daily basis and coach them and train them and show them how to get the best out of other people. So basically, right now, what you're doing is playing point guard in a different role, in a different organization. So you're still a point guard running, make sure Jay Ritz got the ball over here. You're making sure that Tom Izzo, you're filtering out the orders that he's pushing to hear.

But you brought up a couple of things, I think two important points. The relationship you had with Matt Ishby. You were a junior.

Look, you're Mateen Cleaves. Matt Ishby comes in like, who is Matt Ishby? But you formed a relationship and you didn't judge Matt any differently than any other player. And then later on down the line, that relationship came back to fruition to help you. So how important was it that at that particular time that you embrace Matt or any other player in that situation by being Mateen Cleaves and the leader, but it wasn't just the superstar players that you looked at and said, I got to embrace. It was everybody on the team. That's a heck of a point, Jimmy.

And this is like a perfect, the perfect storm or perfect storyline. You always treat people the right way. You never know, you know, who people are, what they're going to go do.

And I've always been raised by my parents. You just treat everybody the right way. And you know, with us in basketball, if you're on a team, you're family. I don't look at one person bigger or better or more important than another person.

Everybody on that team hold the equal value. And with Matt, I really loved him and gravitated to him a little bit when he came in because I loved his work ethic. He was a little short dude, man, but he had some toughness in him. He had some fire in him where he would always come and compete whether it was open gym, whether it was practice.

He's grabbing, holding, scratching, doing whatever he could do to kind of keep up with us. But I kind of, I respected that. And I took a liking to Matt because I loved his grind. But it is a perfect storm, a perfect story of saying you just treat everybody the right way. You never know. And for me, from any teammate I ever played with, whether it was in college, whether it was in the NBA, I could pick the phone up and call pretty much anybody I ever played with. And if I need something, I'm sure they'll come through because that was always the player and the teammate and the family member that I was. Well, we're going to back up too because we all had dreams and aspirations once we kind of got to that college level. You may have had before in high school playing in the NBA, being drafted high, being an integral part of a team and winning the championship, all that kind of stuff.

But we all take different paths. I had my injury, you know, my third year that kind of derailed my playing career but took it in a different direction. You had your own challenges once you got into the NBA. And those challenges helped shape you to the person and the man you are, good or bad. So what was the biggest lesson that you took away from your NBA career?

I think, and I'm glad you brought that up because I've sat in every seat. I've been the best player on the team. I've been a role player on the team.

I've been on the team and didn't really play many minutes. But what I learned, especially I want to say in my Sacramento days, is I didn't play much, but it forced me to find a way to add value when I couldn't really do it physically. So I know in practice I took on the role of competing against everybody, you know, Mike Bibby, Bobby Jackson, who was the guards, who I went up against every day. I felt my role, my job was to make them the best players they could be. So I would try to make practice ten times harder, speaking up in meetings and leading when I really couldn't really, I didn't get the minutes to go play. So my role was to find a way to impact the team, and I embraced that. So it was a challenge for me. And at times, yeah, as a competitor, did I want to play more?

Of course. But hey, the team member in me, the family in me, hey, my job, my role on that team was to be a great practice player, you know, watch film. I almost, you remember, even when I was sitting on the bench, I would watch it as a coach, so when you guys would come out the game, I'm in your ear, hey, watch out for this, this is what they're doing.

They're trapping when you come off the screen and roll. It forced me to kind of impact the team in a different way, and I learned so much from that because I sat in every seat, and I wouldn't change it for the world because going through those challenges and those experiences has shaped me. And back then, you would think, okay, the NBA, I'm never going to make that kind of money. Man, I'm probably going to make more outside of playing in the NBA, and that's from learning from all those different experiences.

Well, let me ask you this. Going through that, and we all have our, you've got to have an ego to be good at this game or great at this game, but as long as it doesn't cross over and affect other things. But did you want to give up at times? And if you did, what stopped you from saying, I just can't quit?

Man, you know what? I tell people all the time, if you play basketball long enough, your love for the game is going to get questioned because you're going to go through things, especially when you're younger, you're usually the best player on the team, and a lot of things go your way. And if you play long enough, it'll come to a point where you have a question, do you still love the game? And I got to that point.

I was there when I wasn't playing at points in Sacramento, but I just think the winner in me, man, I was raised different. I was raised by parents. You know, it's easy to quit. And if you look at most successful people, everybody went through some type of challenge. The difference between someone that's successful and someone that's not, the person that's successful just didn't quit.

That's it. And another thing with me, Jimmy, is the ultra self-confidence. I don't care that I wasn't in the rotation. I still believe I can play. I never let that my confidence waver no matter what. Now, there were times where I didn't like it, but I never ever let it that my self-confidence waver.

I know my own value, so I don't really look for validation from other people. I felt in that system, you know, other guys, Mike Bibby, Bobby Jackson, at the point guard spot, the way we play, they fit that system better. But not one point did I ever feel like I wasn't good.

Not at all. I think one thing that helped me get through those challenging times was ultra self-confidence, Jimmy. Well, it also, too, was this.

And a lot of guys, Mo, please, you know it, will say one thing, but do something else. Yeah, I'm with the team, I'm all in, but their actions speak differently. You know, but here's what, this is why, probably when we were in Sacramento, I'm going to tell you what, that was the one time in my career that I was disappointed the most that I didn't come back. When I was a free agent.

And they brought Brad Miller in the following year. Because I finally thought that throughout my career, I was with the team, a family, all of us. Remember, we all used to hang out.

You bring your radio on the plane and we sit there in the front and you DJ it. And that was the personality that you had. That was the person you was, despite, like you said, what you were dealing with off the court of not playing, that never permeated or bled over to any kind of bad relationships with the team.

You always had a positive attitude. But for me too, I was going through my own struggle. Like when, with Sacramento, I thought finally I landed in a place that I could call home.

And then that summer, free agency happened, they chose to sign Brad Miller. And I was, it just hit me like a gut punch. But like you said, I had to figure out a way, okay, you know, my career has been up and down because of my injury and because of other things. But that's not going to stop me from doing what I want to do and have fun and still be a professional. But I will tell you, Mo, playing what you got, playing with our whole crew, with C-Web, with Vlade, with Scott Pollard, with Keyon Clark, with D Jones, you know what I'm saying, it brought back the love of the game that I had lost somewhere along the line dealing with all the other stuff, man.

Oh, man, I wish people could see that. And like you, even though I didn't play as much, get the minutes I wanted to get, but being around good people, man, that was so fun for me. And I learned so much from being around you, somebody that had been in the league, had been a star player in the league and your professionalism, the way you went about it, being around, like we had so many different characters and different personalities, but it all meshed because we all came together for one common goal and that was to try to win an NBA championship. So it was so fun to be around that.

And it did start, to be honest, it started at the top. You look at where it was the best player. He was a good dude. Vlade was the OG on the team. He was an ultra good dude.

So it started at the top and it just trickled down to everybody else. So we had a lot of good people on that team. And even though I didn't play as much as I did, I wanted to, but I wouldn't change that experience to nothing.

And it was something that I value and I hold on to and I will hold on to it for the rest of my life. And that's real talk too. And as we fast forward to today's game, we got rookies coming into the league. The game has changed a little bit more.

Not as physical. Of course, we know the three-point shot. Is that a good thing or does that take away from how the game is being played with the changes, the more emphasis on the three-point line? You don't really have a post player anymore.

You want space and spread and drive and dribble and shoot threes. Is that a good thing? Well, Jimmy, I'm kind of torn in between the two, to be honest, because I watch it and I don't want to be that old guy like, get off my log. Yeah, I don't want to be that dude. It is fun to watch at times because it is some very skilled. I mean, you think just when you think shooting, you think Steph Curry.

I mean, what he's been able to do has been, I mean, unreal, but so I don't want to be that old dude, but I do think the game has lost a lot that mid range, you know, like you. I mean, I don't even know if you remember this, but you would play with me. We would play one-on-one after practice. It started with you only get three dribbles. Then it went to you get two dribbles, then one dribble. Then it was you don't get no dribbles.

And I'm like, I learned so much from that. Like, you know, the wasted movement. So a lot of these kids right now, they don't know how to play off the ball. They don't know how to make one move and go. They do too much. And now everybody wants to shoot threes. And they settle for just a contested three-point shot at post, moving the ball around and cutting and learning how to play. So the game has changed a lot. I did appreciate it back in the day. I will say that.

But then again, as a basketball junkie and a fan, I'm okay with this too. Right now, you just got to learn. If you want to play in this game, you got to learn how to adapt to the game. And it is different. But I did, I did.

You know, I grew up watching the bad boys and the Jordans and the Knicks and the Showtime Lakers. And so I did appreciate that ball a little more. So you need to see the view from your seat. You also need the all-in pricing feature I've been telling you about. So you get to see your total up front with no surprise fees at checkout. Take the guesswork out of buying tickets with Game Time Picks. Download the Game Time app, create an account, and use my code Aizen for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Visit GameTime.co for details.

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Grainger, for the ones who get it done. I appreciate that too. And again, this is what I say about the younger players playing the game today. And I can't fault them, so to speak, about how they play and how they view the game, because that's all they know. When they've grown up now, when they were 12, 13, 14, 15, all they saw was three-point shooting really starting to revolutionize. They saw the Steph Curry's playing a certain way. So that's what they were taught. And they were playing AAU in a gym, and that's how they were taught to play the game. So I can't expect a young player, no matter how much I'm going to show them film or talk to them and say, hey, you know, back in the day, we played in the alley, we played on the park, we played this. Their comprehension can't go back. They can understand it and see it. So I got to meet them where they're at, you know, and not try to get them to understand, oh, I need, Jerrel and B, I need you to play in the polls.

Bruh, it's just not going to happen. Or a big man cat, I need you to really focus in on being a post player. Well, one, you're not going to get the touches.

And two, he didn't really grow up playing pounding like that. So I try to understand it as I'm analyzing games, as I'm calling games, as I'm watching games, analyzing players to understand their thought process and what they see and what they've been taught and kind of try to navigate that and help them understand how to play the game from that perspective. But before you get out of here, I got a couple of things. Can't let you off the hook. What's the Suns going to do this year? Say, hey, baby, we going for the championship.

Come on, man. Go big or go home. We are going for the championship.

And I think they made some good moves, bringing in some nice solid point guards. I think that's going to help us really, really, really well. Hold it right there. Stop right there.

Real quick. Last year we were talking, we were at a couple of games. We were talking about the point guard position. Phoenix was so set on we don't really need a point until you need a point. But you didn't back there because Bradley Bill and Booker and Kevin Durant can handle the ball and make play. But we were having the conversation like you need somebody to set the table. Tyus Jones was one of them.

So I'm going to let you finish with that. How important was that pickup? Very important. Tyus Jones. And then you got Monte Morris, who's very heady, always from college on, from high school to college to the NBA. Does a really good job of taking care of the basketball.

So I think with those additions, that's going to help them be great. And now KD, he can go back to being a killer, man. Bradley Bill can be a killer. Booker, they can go get to it.

They were asked to do things that they capable of doing. But like you said, they have to do that for 82 games and then through the playoffs and the way Minnesota picked them up full court and challenged them, that really, I think, opened up some eyes. But I think Adam Jones, Admonte Morris, we call him Ant Man.

He's from Flint, Michigan. But Adam Jones, two very, very super solid guards. I think that's going to help take Phoenix to the next level.

Hey, when I say we, I'm all on board. So we going for the championship this year, baby. No, I can see the difference with this team by having, especially in late game situations where Book, with Bill, and Durant can kind of do their thing. Yeah, they'll have the ball in their hands. But a guy like Tyus Jones, who doesn't turn it over, puts you in the position in time and score, when now those three individuals can just go play and do what they need to do. The turnovers are up a little bit more, especially in late situations. Their fourth quarter efficiency wasn't as good as the previous three. And I think a lot of it had to do with the lack of really having a true decision maker at the point guard position.

So we'll see how that filters out. I mean, it doesn't bode well for my Clippers, as you know. Of course, the Suns do that.

But I love to see talent be able to thrive in the situation. And shout out to Matt Ishby and that whole team for bringing that together. And I'd be remiss if I didn't talk about our guy, Tom Izzo, and kind of what he's meant to you. For me, as an announcer, and Tom was assistant coach under Judd Heatcote at the time when I played back in the late 80s and 90s.

But I got to know Tom by TV when I started with the Big Ten Network. And he's one of the closest coaches that I've ever been associated with. I mean, we sit and talk and I learn the game and what he wants to do.

And I know he wants to get one more championship. And your relationship is so special with him. How has that started?

But how has it continued to manifest itself to this day? Well, it's funny that you mentioned that he was assistant coach against you. He probably shouldn't like you all the points you scored against Michigan State. He loves me, man. He loves me. That's my guy, man.

I don't see why all the points you scored on him. But listen, not only is he a great coach, he's one of the best people you ever want to be around in your life, man. And, you know, we both got recruited by a lot of different coaches, man. And when you make that decision, you're just kind of hoping that you made the right decision. And me being 47 years old now, I made the right decision. Me and Coach Izzo, we're still close as we was when we were sitting in team meetings or I'm going in his office or he's coaching me at practice.

Now, we talk all the time now. My son actually stayed half the summer with Coach Izzo. He was going through therapy. Coach Izzo would take him up there and let him watch practices, let him work out at Michigan State, feed him at night. I mean, just took care of him.

So we're family, man. And for Coach Izzo, I think people, he'd get a bad gripe when people see him hollering and screaming. Like, man, come on, man. The thing people need to understand, why would a kid continue to go to Michigan State if he's such a bad guy? Listen, he's going to hold you highly accountable. And that's what made a lot of the players from good to great players, you know, and a lot of people that are successful off the court because some of the intangible things that he taught all of us at Michigan State. But I think great coach, all that stuff. But Jimmy, you hit on it. He's a better person.

You know, and that's what separates him to me from a lot of the other college coaches around the country. All right, we're going to play this game before you go, word association. I'm going to give you a word. You kind of give me what your thoughts are on it. Quick hitting a little bit.

All right, you ready? I got you, baby. All right, mentorship. I would say Coach Izzo, mentorship. You're talking caring about people, tapping into people. Giving, going over and beyond for other people. So I would say mentorship.

I would say Coach Izzo. Michigan State. Family. Brotherhood. There it is.

Family, brotherhood. I'm thinking Magic Johnson. I'm thinking Steve Smith.

I'm thinking Eric Snow, Sean Resper. All these great players that poured into me. And now our babies coming behind us. Draymond, Miles Bridges, Jaron Jackson, all these, the young ones.

Zach Randolph. I mean, Mo Peet, you talk about all the great brotherhood. I know I left some people out, but it's a brotherhood. That's family there for me. Flint, Michigan.

Ah, man. The foundation. Flint, Michigan was the foundation for me. I learned so many different things just from being from Flint. I didn't know I was going to be blessed from some of the things that I went through, some of the challenges that I went through that built me. That made me who I am today.

Nothing can break me coming from Flint, Michigan. So I would say the foundation. Last one. Fatherhood.

Ah, man. The best. The best. My boys mean the world to me. I got an older son that's a manager at Amazon. He graduated from school, did a great job in college as his manager. I got a young freshman point guard that I'm raising now.

At Orchard Lake, St. Mary's here in Michigan. And the time I get to spend with them, it's priceless. So for me, man, them my babies, man. It's nothing else, nothing better than being a father. I would say being a husband. I know my wife going to watch this, so I got to give her some love.

Give her some love, right. But fatherhood is the best. You know what it is because you a heck of a father yourself.

So it's the best, man. Listen, Mo Cleaves, I appreciate you, brother. Look forward to down the line when we cross paths out in Phoenix. But would love for you to come back and join me as the season starts to move forward, not just from an NBA perspective, but of course, from a college perspective. Anytime, man. I love you, man. Come on.

If you're trying to win, tap in. You know, I'm coming on board. You got me for whatever you need, Jimmy. And I love what you're doing too, man. You're doing big things, baby. And I love the fact that I still could call you and I don't have to call your sister yet.

So we good, baby. All good. Thanks, Cleave.

Appreciate you, brother. So at the end of the show and those first time viewers, listeners, I do a segment called Off the Court. And I do kind of talk about some news that's going on, maybe it's history or whatever it may be, something that's on my mind. And I came across something, it's been permeating in the media and the news for the last five, 10, 15 years with the growth of social media. It's words, how we utilize our words, whether it's positive or negative, they have an impact. Back in the day, we used to say and parents used to say, well, sticks and stones may break my bones, but words, they won't hurt me.

They won't affect me. I don't think that's true anymore. Because with the advent of social media and content and people going on voicing their opinions or displeasure on whatever it may be, whether it's homophobic, whether it's about race, religion, whatever they don't like, it's impacting people and their mental approaches to what they do. Young men and women, older men and women, teenagers, what we do, how we get affected by words, what we say, how we say them, how we impart them upon people.

The good, the bad, the ugly. It was a recent incident, I don't want to give a lot of life to it, to Breanna Stewart and her wife about some really derogatory language and actually threats to her, Breanna Stewart. This is basketball. This is someone's life.

They have a family. Now, I want to backtrack and say that the hatred has been there for a long time. Throughout the history of the world, you can always trace it back to whether you're a highly publicized person that got hate or it was someone dealing with a mental issue that had an issue with a politician or whoever it may be. With the difference being we're getting it in real time. Back in the day, we would get yesterday's news today because of newspaper and some things on TV.

Today, we're getting everything in real time. Because of that, that's providing a voice for people who probably would never be heard. But now, unfortunately, because of the First Amendment, freedom of speech, a lot of people feel it's necessary to voice their opinions in a negative way. It's okay to disagree. We can agree to disagree on a lot of different things. But how you voice that disagreement when it starts to become threatening is the issue that we're dealing with. And to be honest with you, I don't know what the solution is. Because it's hard to police it from the perspective of social media. Because once you start to thread and take away the ability to voice an opinion, then you start to then diminish the part of having free speech. But it has to be something that has to be done. I know these social media outlets have tried in the past to eliminate certain accounts of people or individuals or companies who spew hate. But we're still steadily rolling down this hill.

It has to be something that has to be done. Because it's playing the mental effect on our young people, on our young generation. We see it with suicidal attempts or suicides going up with young people being affected by words used on social media. Where do we go as parents, as a community, as a society, to kind of impact and stop this?

I don't know. But I do believe that we've got to continue to work for it because I do advocate for social media in the right way. To use it as a tool to communicate, to get with people, to push the narrative, to have an engaging conversation where, hey, you don't have to agree with everything I have to say. Maybe we find a common ground within that disagreement where I have the ability, and this is very important, to listen to what you're saying and then dissecting that and seeing if there's something that makes sense. But the hate, the threats, all of those things are very unnecessary. And again, I'm preaching to the choir. A lot of people are talking about it. But it's something that we as a society have to try to change.

I don't think it's going to be across the board 100%, but at the same time, what's going on right now in social media, especially with the entertainment world, sports world, political world, social activist world, I mean, it's playing into the hands of a lot of the tragedies that have happened, not only in the States, but across the world and will continue to happen until we figure out a solution here or a way to stem it where people can voice their opinions without the aspect or live their life without being threatened for who they are. Appreciate you tuning in this week. Enjoy your weekend. See you next week. Thanks a lot.

Appreciate you. Peace and love. All right, Bill, we're recording now and please put your phone on silent. Oh, where is my phone? Let's go, man. Get it together over there, player. Go ahead. Pick on me the way that you want to. I would say that to my son. Just go.

All right. Why would people want to listen to the Sims Complete podcast? Father, son, dynamic duo talking about the game of football. We do a lot of quarterback and coach talks. It's fun. I love doing this. It's been awesome. Sims Complete. Check us out on the Believe Network. Appreciate it. You can leave BLEAV wherever you listen.