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Last minute tickets, lowest price guaranteed. What's going on everybody. Welcome to the premiere episode of the no contest wrestling podcast. I'm your host O'Shea Jackson Jr. And I'm TJ Jefferson. And we're here to give you a, what you've been asking for. You know, we want to make some noise in the wrestling podcast area. And we feel like we have the product that everyone's missing out. And obviously with your premiere episode, we want to make a statement.
So who better to bring on the CM Punk, right? Come on. We didn't, who do we think we are? We didn't, you know, I, you know, if this was a football game, we didn't bring you the 54th man on the 53 man roster.
No, no, no way. If this was a movie, we didn't bring you number 15 on the call sheet. We bought you number one on the call sheet. CM Punk magnet, Charles Montgomery punk, you know, and obviously we were talking, people were like, well, why are you getting into this podcast business? And I think the 21st century poet KRS won some of the best when he said, let us begin who, what, why, or when I'll be explained like instructions to a game.
So who, who are we? Well, you know, I'm a, as I said, O'Shea Jackson Jr. It's, um, wrestling has been such a major part of my life, whether it be, you know, not only the entertainment side, but as a kid, you know, a way to make friends, you know, it's, it's always been, I mean, not exactly water cooler talk when you're a kid, but it's just always been something to, to speak on like the greatest soap opera ever made. And it's, uh, you learn life lessons through wrestling. You learn, uh, important qualities to shape the person that you're going to be, whether that's a baby face or a heel. And I think the most important part of wrestling is sometimes bad guys win.
Absolutely. You know, two things there that you brought up. Well, one of them was water cooler talking. The funny thing is, you know, back when I was in junior high and high school, we used to love the great mood.
Shout out to the great mood, a guy who I hope we get to talk about as this pod goes on, but you know, mood that was always big with the mist. So me and my boys, we get like between classes, go to the water fountains. We didn't have water coolers. We had water fountains and we take a mouth full of water.
And as we'd see each other walking down the hallways in school, we kind of moved to shoot the water up in the air, you know, and that just, I didn't even think about that too. You just said that water cooler, that thing took me back a little bit, man, but yeah, just a huge wrestling fan myself. You know, I grew up watching and loving all sports and professional wrestling was just one of those things that, you know, small group of friends liked it, got a little older. Those people found other interests, but for me, I just never lost it, man. I never lost the fun of watching wrestling, even when it really wasn't that good sometimes, to be honest.
I never lost the thrill. It just, my grandma once said to my grandfather who, my grandfather's the reason I became such a huge fan. She would be like, why are you guys watching that old wrestling? And my grandfather, he gave her an answer that I used to this day. He goes, well, you watch them stories all day, don't you?
Are the stories real? Like, you know, all, you know, as the world turns guiding light, you know, is that stuff real? And that kind of hit me as a little kid, like, yeah, soap opera for men. And that's what really wrestling is and women can cut them out. Exactly.
Exactly. And for me, it was my, my older brother Darryl. I got introduced to wrestling through video games, WWF raw for Sega Genesis. And that led to, you know, Nintendo 64 with a WCW versus NWO and WWF no mercy and things like that. And I started to really watch it every week, probably second, third grade. So like 99, 2000 is when I really like, I need to see this every week back when, you know, smack down was on UPN rest in peace. So, yeah, I mean, technically isn't UPN CW now, but yeah. So that was, you know, that was my introduction and the same, same thing.
You know, my, my grandmother, she put me on the one life to live hospital. I just happened to watch raw and smack down. So it's a, yeah, it's, it's, it's some of the best memories I have as a kid, the, the storytelling, the sacrifice, learn as I got older, I really started to appreciate the sacrifice. These guys have no off season. These guys are away from their family hearing stories about how Brett Hart would spend Christmas morning with his kids.
And then by noon, he got to get on a flight. You know, those are the things where you start to appreciate everyone within the squared circle. And I think that's what we want to do with our podcast is usually you go to shows and they'll talk to guys trying to promote either the upcoming event or whatever happened recently on their represented promotions. What we want to do is kind of tap into that psyche a little bit and humanize these stars, give them an avenue to be a fan, to be the men and women that turned into the superstars and pro wrestlers that we know.
And I think eventually you as fans will agree with us that there is no contest. Exactly. You know, and you know, the thing about these wrestlers, like you said, they, they give so much to us as fans, any one of these dark side of the ring documentaries, any one of these documentaries on sports that you see, I've started to realize lately, these wrestlers, their children get interviewed. And what you find out is because their parents, their mom and their dad were on the road, entertaining us all the time. They never really had that parental figure in their life. And I kind of got to the point where I felt a little bit bad.
The fact that like, we took your dad away from you for 300 days out of the year to, you know, entertain us, but you never think about the effect it has on those kids in the family unit. So, you know, humanizing wrestlers, I think is definitely something we absolutely want to do kind of maybe help them. And there's a lot of places they can go, but we want to make this a destination. I want people to feel comfortable. You know, I want them to feel like their voice will be heard. I want them to know that this is a safe space that, you know, whatever you got to say, you can come here and let it out.
And we're here for them. And I think that's one of the things that we hope to bring to this, this podcast world. And, you know, you know this because let's make, let's just face it. You've made a name for yourself on Twitter or X, I want to say kind of just going after people, you know, maybe playing the hill roll and people really get upset and up in arms, or they really agree with you, but there's a lot of toxic nature on social media with wrestling.
I personally don't like the toxic nature. I want to kind of put some positivity in there. And that's what I hope to bring to this whole, that's why you all be one, bro. I'll be, I'll be Anakin.
I'll be, I'll be a little twisted a little bit. You don't know which side he's going to go on, but yeah, absolutely. What I think also with, with my age and maturing and understanding, you start to realize a heel that you've hated. It's just a man good at his job. Just a man good at his job. You know, that's, that's what he's supposed to do. Wrestling at its core is meant to give you a feeling.
And if it doesn't give you that feeling, it's not something that will last the test of time the way that it has. And, you know, we're going to talk to CM Punk today, and we're, we're also going to talk to Phil Brooks, get him to come out a little bit, you know? And I think that's important for us to remember as fans, as those who get to be entertained, to see that human side, to understand that this is a person who no matter how much they might grind your gears, just really good at their job. What can you say?
Exactly. So like Karis once said, we gave you the who, the why, the what, how about the win? Let them know when they can catch us. Oh, you can catch us every Wednesday. We are very reliable. We will be here for you. As long as you are here for us every Wednesday, you can check us out. We will make sure that we are posted on all platforms. As far as where you get your podcast, you can listen to us anywhere. So you'll be able to catch us on the Rich Eyes and Show YouTube page, almost a million followers there, along with other podcasts, overreaction Monday, what the football, a new basketball podcast with NBA veteran, Jim Jackson.
We're kind of rolling right now, man. And things are looking good. And we just want to bring you all types of quality content.
And don't forget, you can follow us on our Instagram page. And it's simply at no contest wrestling podcast. It's long, but every other variation was taken. So yeah. What do you want us to do? We figured it out.
It's a premiere episode. All right, man, got to keep the lights on around here. Let's talk LinkedIn people and small business owning. I'm a small business owner.
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That's LinkedIn.com slash Eisen to post your job for free terms and conditions apply. Hey people, let's talk about leaf filter. It's that time of year where the leaves fall down off the trees and right into your gutters. And the worst part about that is you probably don't even know that your gutter is filled up with leaves until it's too late. That's where leaf filter comes into play. Even if you are a DIY homeowner, leaf filter is there to help you. If you're a low maintenance kind of homeowner, kind of like me, it's so convenient to never think about gutters at all.
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See representative for warranty details. Promotion is $20 off plus a 10% senior or military discount. One discount per household. Ladies and gentlemen, as promised the second city St. Mr. Money in the bank, the best in the world, your friend in mind, Mr. CM Punk. Welcome to the pod. Welcome to the pod.
Thank you. I mean, you've had a lot of nicknames. Obviously it's hard to knock the best in the world, but do you have a favorite, you know, where did the name come from?
Let us know. I, my favorite punk was my nickname when I was a little kid. So yeah, I remember when I started wrestling, I went to wrestling school and I was getting in the ring and I was racking my brain cause I was trying to come up with a cool name and I'm a child of the eighties.
So I love GI Joe. So I was like, what's a cool code name, you know what I mean? Like, and my trainers were finally like, everybody, we all call you punk, just be punk, you know? And it kind of just happened that way. But I was, I was like, you know, Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, these are cool names, you know, like I needed something like that.
It winds up just being punk. So that's my favorite nickname, but I do have a lot, a lot of people call me a lot of different things. Some to your face, some behind your back. Yeah.
Mostly behind my back. My you know, my family member of mine got his artist name because he was cold with the ladies. Now the CM and CM pump. I need to know what that CM is for. It stands for a cube man. Huge ice cube fan.
Obviously, naturally. The CM thing. It originally stood for chick magnet. And I tried to get rid of that because I thought that was a little, a little silly, you know, but it kind of stuck and it became CM punk. And I just, you know, like, I can't really complain because things sort of worked out. Okay.
We're doing all right. You know, but it is, it is a silly name. I always laugh when people complain about stuff like, uh, see people complain about some of the ridiculous names that some NXT kids pick. And I'm like, what am I going to say? My name is CM punk. It's the stupidest name.
What are you going to do? It's the most channelable name. I don't know. I mean, I've heard of that Laker games.
Wow. Well, they got nothing else to chant for. So let me ask you, we're talking about the name. What was the moment? Like as a kid, what do you remember about wrestling that made you fall in love with it? And who was the wrestler that made you go, wow, I love this 100% Roddy Piper. But I, you know, I was born and raised in Chicago. So I, the first time I saw wrestling had to be like some Saturday nights main event stuff.
Right. Like maybe I was trying to watch, uh, Saturday night live. I was a little kid and like, you see this insane production where people are beating the crap out of each other and they're, you know, like, but man, it was so long ago and I'm so old now.
It's like hard to, everything's starting to get a little fuzzy from that then, you know, but that was the time. So I didn't know wrestling existed, like outside of this. So I was very much a Chicago, you know, Midwest WWF kid, you know? It wasn't until like, I realized, you know, like, okay, this is what I'm going to do for the rest of my life that I discovered like everything else, like outside of it and how great, like the business was even prior to that giant boom in the eighties, you know, just so I think there's not a lot of wrestling historians left and I'm not saying I'm one, but we're running out of guys, man. So, you know, the people who have lived it and worked in it and grew up fans and got in the business the right way, you know, there's only a handful of them left.
So, and I feel like I'm of the age now where I might be one of those guys now. It's funny you brought up Roddy Piper. Roddy Piper sat in one of these two chairs. Years ago, it was a Friday, did an interview with Rich and the next Friday he passed away. And so we literally got Roddy one week before he was gone. And it was, it was just, it was hard when it happened being, you know, an old school wrestling fan, because I sat in a couch right here and I wasn't even on the show at that time.
I was working for DirecTV, but I came to the studio. Every time a wrestler was here, I'm coming. And I remember I had a Macho Man t-shirt on and he saw him and he came over and he like, you know, hit my knees. He's like, how are you doing guy? And I, you know, I thought about getting a picture, but I had one from years ago.
I didn't want to bother him cause I already had that picture. And then he passed away seven days later. It's different when you, when you lose somebody of that magnitude and you just saw him, you know, I filmed with Ray Liotta and then like lost him shortly after I spent my birthday at his Hollywood walk of fame in the rain without him, you know? So like, I, I completely feel how you feel. Is there anybody in the business who like you've lost or like you've seen us lose that really affected you?
There's too many to talk about how long, how long we got, you know? Cause obviously like I feel wrestling is notorious for that, right? Like we are constantly losing wrestlers and it always seems to be way too early, you know? And, and wrestling, I feel like, just like anything else, like I could not talk to somebody for five years and then see him and get on like two days past or not even, you know, two minutes past.
So it was, it was up when Bray died. Yeah. And hopefully we're, we're bleeping that, right? I got the, I got the AOK to speak freely. We'll see.
We'll see. You didn't talk about that. You know Brody, Luke Harper when he died. Cause those were, those were, I remember where I was when I was told, and I remember like you get hit with that, that thunderbolt where you're just like, oh, and you got to sit down and you're just like, what? Like he's young. What, you know, it's almost refreshing when you hear of, you know, a wrestler like, oh, how old was he? Oh, he was 88. Oh, okay.
He had a, he had a good, you know, he had a good run and there's an argument to be said that maybe 88 still too young, but for a wrestler, it's man. It's like you're Methuselah. Yeah. Yes, you are.
But there's, there's, there's, there's too many, you know, but I think, I think Bray and Brody were the two ones because they're so young and they have, they got little babies and it's just like one of those things that like, it just stings just talking about it now, it still stings and it's, it's, it's truly like unfair. Yeah. I sometimes feel like with the wrestlers, right? When you, when you talk about hockey players and football players to a lesser extent, basketball, you know, football, hockey, they've got pads on, they've got helmets.
They're, they're pretty much covered up. You guys are pretty much naked to us. I mean, and I don't, I'm trying to be some matches. It almost makes you feel like you're almost closer because there's nothing hiding you guys, except for the mass wrestlers, obviously. So I always felt like that kind of made us more feel more attachment because we literally, we watch you guys grow and get older and, you know, go from, you know, black hair to gray hair and your body changes. And it's just a weird, it's just like a weird thing with wrestling that I just feel like we feel more attached to wrestlers because there's not all that stuff covering them up and you guys just seem more real. Does that, if that makes sense?
No, that makes a, that makes a lot of sense. And you're right. You know, we're, we're not wearing helmets. We're not like a number, you know, in sports, obviously like what's more important is, you know, the logo on the front of the Jersey, not the name on the back. And in wrestling, it's almost like the exact opposite, you know, like you're trying to, you're trying to get yours and you're trying to elevate yourself and your name and your brand. And you're not wearing a helmet and you're super recognizable in public. And especially if you have stupid tattoos, like it's hard to, it's hard to hide, you know, especially if you're a complete fool like me and you just wear your incognito outfit on television.
So you can no longer even just move around in a hoodie with the hood up and like nobody will look at you. No, that's him. Yeah. Yeah.
I went and, I went and ruined that. Yeah. A hundred percent. I also think maybe shelf lives are, are kind of shorter. You know, there are people in the NFL, NHL that have 20 year careers, but those are like the outliers. Whereas, you know, a guy like Hulk Hogan, a guy like Randy Savage, they're, they're so ingrained in pop culture and they're so recognizable. Like they've had these super, super long careers instead of like, you know, like there's hockey players that, that get in, they do four years on a team and yeah. I mean, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a tough sport, but then they transitioned to like real life. And I feel like wrestlers just always have more trouble doing that.
That's interesting. I mean, with, with the storylines and with everything that, you know, as, as fans, our belief goes into, I feel like, you know, I've been through these things with you. And I know, you know, as a, as a fan, there were many times where like, I hated guys, you know, like, I don't like you. When I first met Chris Jericho, I told him to his face. I hated your guts. I couldn't stand you.
Like now I understand what you were, you were doing, which means you were great at your job. But like, as a fan, were there guys that are like, well, who are the guys that you hated that you couldn't stand? Oh man. Just as a fan. If you like Piper, you probably didn't like Hogan, right? Yeah, but I'm trying to think if there was somebody, you know, I'm trying to figure out the timeline of like when I was watching wrestling and then when I really kind of became like a smart wrestling fan, you know? So like everybody kind of has that, that moment, that, that, that rebirth where they're like, Oh, and then things kind of do change because you do realize like, Oh, this person is, is a character. I've worked some really strong baby faces in my career. I've been really fortunate to be across the ring from guys that the people really believed in and really loved.
Yeah. But I don't think that I can narrow or single out a wrestler that I hated. You know what I mean? Aside from being, you know, a smart wrestling fan, he's like, Oh, I hate that guy because he, he doesn't know how to work, you know, like that, like there, there wasn't, there wasn't any like visceral like hatred. Like I would watch Hogan wrestle Andre and Bobby Heenan. And I wouldn't be like, man, I hate these guys. I think I was just, I don't, I don't know what the word I'm looking for is. I think I was just too kind of in tune, not in the, yeah, maybe in tune, not like in the know, because, you know, like I, I wouldn't have been like, Oh, this is all phony, but you're on the fence.
You're like, I don't know if this is all on the level, but yeah, I'm gonna let you know right now. I couldn't stand you when you cashed it on Jeff Hardy. Good. That was a desired result. It was such a level of aggravation. It was just like, of course, this is the dumbest rule.
This briefcase needs to be out of here. I couldn't, I hated you guys. You're chill now. You know, you're a good dude. Do you remember?
I'm a little brother. You know, my big brother really showed me wrestling and my first introduction to wrestling was through video games like WWF, Ross, Sega Genesis is the first introduction to wrestling for me. And then, you know, he's, he's showing me these guys, Sean Michaels, razor Ramon. And later on Nintendo 64 comes out and I started looking at WCW don't kill me, but this is before I know anything.
I'm thinking Hulk Hogan is straight WCW guy. Like this is where I saw him. I've never seen him anywhere else. So that was your first intro though.
So I'm, I'm looking at these guys like, okay, you really handled you. I thought you told me Bret Hart was with WWF. Oh yeah, he's here now. What do you mean he's here now? What are you talking about?
This is why is razor Ramone's name, not razor Ramone over here. And so like, those were the first steps with me, like getting like, Oh, this is like, these are like competing promotions. Like this is like a, just growing up and shattering our childhood. Exactly.
Realizing capitalism runs everything as a fan. The first time wrestling broke your heart as a fan, as a fan, I mean, Hulk Hogan and running over the rock in an ambulance scarred, maybe unless I can think of something that was earlier. I remember being confused as to why was it WrestleMania nine when Hogan just like came out, out of nowhere and challenge Yokozuna after the Bret Hart match. That didn't, that didn't feel good.
It didn't feel good at all as a kid, like didn't feel good at all. And I don't know how smart or not smart I was at that point, but I remember watching it and just being like, so for those who don't know WrestleMania nine, Bret Hart wrestles Yokozuna in the main event. Yokozuna breeds Bret Hart. Then all of a sudden the Hulk Hogan comes to ringside with a black guy that we don't even know how he got it. Like knowing what I know now, like the finish of WrestleMania would like the heel up.
It was just kind of like flat, you know? So you don't like the bad guy winning it? And you don't, I mean, there's, there's a time and there's a place for it. I, you know, that wasn't it.
I, it for sure wasn't in TJ. It was just weird with Bret, Brett had salt Yokozuna or mr. Fuji, I guess, through the salt and Brett ties. And then Hogan's coming down and talking to him and Brett's like, yeah, go get them. And I'm like, wait, what? Go get them.
They met Brett. Look. Yeah. Yeah. A little, yeah.
A little suspect. Yeah. Yeah. That's a, that's for sure.
A heart heartbreaking moment to this day. Like I know why, but it's confusing to a fan of just like, okay. I mean, sure. I mean, I like Hulk and it's cool.
Can we like fast forward a little bit? Let's let's let's let's talk about it. I mean, if I said no, what are you, is it going to throw you off?
Well, I'm not going to argue with you. Thank you for coming out. Like, okay, I got nothing but time, but let's go. Listeners, please welcome a real finance nerd from our sponsor nerd wallet. Hey Sean. Hey, Rich.
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That's OReillyAuto.com slash E-I-S-E-N. O-O-O-Reilly Auto Parts. August 20th, 2021. You made your return to professional wrestling. My question is this. You're sitting in Guerrilla, right, waiting for that music to hit. Was there any part of you that maybe questioned, like, because I saw AJ Styles talk about being in the Royal Rumble and he was nervous because he didn't know if the people would know him. Obviously people are going to know you, but was there any part that you don't seem like a guy who would get nervous, but like, was there any part of you that questioned like the reception you were going to get that first time in so long? And then after your music hit and you heard that ovation, I mean, you make grown men cry. Yeah.
And like, what, what, what was that feeling like for you? So most people who do live television, I haven't really experienced it, like doing TV and movies, because you can just do another take. You can just about to bring that up.
You can just kind of like step out and go, I need a minute, you know, this, this, that. So there is pressure to that, but there's not pressure like live television, live sports, you know, Broadway. So I, yeah. Right.
Yeah. But I don't know what it's like to play game seven Stanley cup final, you know, home game and be down there for the face-off and the puck drops. I don't know what that experience is like. I think I could maybe draw some parallels to things that I've done in my career. But yeah, coming back, there's a level of imposter syndrome that I think I've always dealt with.
Right. Because as much as I've always been that guy that shuts out all the negative voices, there's those voices are still there. And after not doing something for seven years and famously having this very public, ugly breakup with the company and not doing anything for seven years, it's just like, the thought is we'll do the people. Are the people going to care? Are they going to remember me now? You also have a pretty good idea that, yeah, you know what?
I just sold out the house that Michael Jordan built on a rumor. I'm pretty sure they're not here to throw tomatoes at me. But there's still always that little bit of doubt. And people want to talk about, oh, you know, if you could bottle that adrenaline and that feeling of, you know, like your highest high. I thrive in being uncomfortable. And in that moment, I was so uncomfortable because I was so uncertain and I loved it. I wanted to sit there and just be like, yeah, this is great.
I've never felt more alive. Because I've had low lows where I'm just like, oh, I wish it was all over with. And I've had high highs where I'm like, I never want this to end. But there's that middle part that I've experienced a couple times, fortunately, because I went through the same thing when I came back in Survivor Series to the WWE. But man, that uncertainty.
But then looking around me and seeing all these people who just like, you know, my peers, my colleagues on their phones, like filming it. Yeah. You know, I was just like, okay.
And this is all in the lead up to you. Yeah. And I think you got a quote, you'd rather choke on greatness rather than starve on mediocrity.
100%. Yeah. I'd rather, I'd rather, I mean, I've famously done this my entire career. I'd rather take a big ass bite and try to swallow it and realize, oh, maybe I bit off a little bit more than I can chew. But if this is, this is the way I'm going out, you know, at least I wasn't sitting here with like more, more, please, you know, I'll take my bite.
Yeah. You know, in, you know, speaking of the, do they remember, obviously you knew that they would, because your name, people have been chanting your name and the ratings for years, like CM Punk, your name rings bells, like Sunday at 12 o'clock, you know what I mean? Through our wrestling fans. So I, it's interesting just to hear your point of view of that, because I know as the rumors came, I know as the rumors came, fans were just ready. They were ready to see you again after so long.
And then in, in, in June of 2023, you exit the company. What was your thought then? Were you like, okay, I'm done with the wrestling.
Was there any part of you going, maybe I'll start my own gig. You know, what was any ideas of what your next chapter was going to be when you, when you, when you left? Well, you know, I think again, talking about the tools that we as an industry have taken away from ourselves. I, I explain it like this to people like in the eighties, seventies, eighties, six sixties, we're not on cable television, but the industry is absolutely thriving. I know everybody likes to say things like Vince McMahon came around and he revolutionized the business and he brought it to new heights. He did in a way, but they were packing Texas stadium in the early eighties. They're packing Shea stadium with, you know, Bruno and Zabisco, you know, you know, like business was good and there were different territories for different guys to go work in all the time. It'd be like, if there was one movie studio, it'd be like, if there was one record label, you're going to get competition helps. So when I left WWE in 2014, people can argue very much so in bad faith that like, oh, he didn't love the business.
Cause he didn't go work the Indies. What the was I going to, what was I going to do? Right. And then, but, but it's a little bit of that, but then there's also the part of like, who's going to pay me. Yeah. Yeah.
Very important. Like, Oh yeah. Like go back and work for 60 bucks. Like, well, you know, like I, I, I'm, I'm married now. I got him, you know, Morgan, I say, I got a mortgage, but I didn't. I bought my cut, my, my house cash. Wow.
I have like seven CM Punk shirts. So I know that, you know, those merge sales probably. Yeah. You know, you know, so, so when I, when I, when I exit AEW, I, I definitely wasn't like, Oh, I'm going to, I, I, yeah, I probably did think, okay. I was, I was, I was done.
Yeah. And then you know, cause that, that happened in, I don't know, August or September. And then I'm just like kind of chilling and then, you know, Nick call, Nick Khan calls me in November and he's like, when are you free and clear? And I was like, Nick, I don't know if you heard, I was fired. Heard it through the grapevine that I might be free. Yeah. Very publicly.
How do you not know that? He's like, Oh, no, no, I, I know. He's like, he goes, certainly you're not telling me that there's not an, and then he just stopped himself and he went, okay, we want to talk to you about coming back. And then I was just like, I'm on my way to the gym and I'm flying. I think it was flying to Atlantic city the next day for a CFFC show where I do commentary.
And I was just like, you know, sometime shoot me times next week and we'll, we'll get on the phone and like, we'll talk and wheels just started in motion, you know, and you're on the phone with them and you, he, somebody says something about survivors who was being in Chicago and you go, Oh, well, Oh man. Oh, but we can't get a deal done in that amount of time. Who said, but that's the spot. That's the spot. That's the spot.
So how, how eager are both are both sides to realize it? How eager were you? As eager as they were. Yeah.
It couldn't be the, the raw in Nashville the next night. It had to be because I think when we first started talking, it was just like, okay, you know, the, the typical rumble you come back for the rumble, right. Right. You know, but easiest, but me being the, the creative that I am, I was immediately just like, yeah, I get it. But that's what you, that's what you do.
That's what you do with everybody. Everybody gets that, you know? So like, and then it was a gift survivor series is in Chicago. It's just in three days. So one of those three days is Thanksgiving, you know, like in a business day, lawyers aren't working.
So the lawyers had to work overtime in 48 hours, right? I can't imagine the bill you got master at making people mad at me for a lot of people were mad at me that weekend. But guess what? A lot more people were happy with you. I think for one, when I do, when you came back, I was trying to get suspended from Twitter that night. You might've been, you might've been one of the people who was texting me.
I can't remember. I have to go back and you were asking me like, Hey, what's going on? And I was like, I don't know what you're talking about. And then you hit me with that stupid devil mask face. And I do, I was going nuts on Twitter. I apologize to everyone who blocked me, but like it's who I am. That's why I'm here.
Now you're in Chicago 48 hours. You guys put this thing together. Yeah. You show up at survivor series. You've got Rhodes, Orton, Uso, Rollins, Zane, all in the ring. There had been little rumors and rumbles that maybe, maybe, maybe Chicago, maybe. Okay.
What helped the matches over? Yeah. But, but that's a step on what you're saying.
But like, what helped all of that is anytime they're in Chicago, you know, like, and that is precisely why I spent $40,000 on ice cream bars when I came back in 2021. Right. And because that was legit a thank, thank you. Thank you for seven years of chanting my name. And I do have a little bit of sympathy and empathy for the people that were always in the ring when that was going on. And I do think a lot of the sourness and maybe hard feelings some people have for me is because of that when they're busting their ass, it's not your fault. They're chanting for me. What do you want me to do? Yeah.
But you know, I, I understand I'll deal with it as it comes. But yeah, I, I, that's one of those, man, I wouldn't be anywhere and I wouldn't be back here if it wasn't for a great many circumstances. But one of them is the fans in, especially in Chicago, but worldwide people bring in signs and, you know, chanting my name. Unbelievable. So they got some ice cream that night.
That's dope. Well, so, okay. So Robert Sears is going off there now. Millions of us are a little bit like, all right, this music's playing credits and coming up right in the bottom right-hand corner, all of a sudden static.
We hear Vernon Reed hit that guitar lick that wakes me up almost every morning. Yep. That place erupted. Now what does that feel? What does that moment feel like?
Because there's a split second where we're here and it's like, what? And then they did the, the camera shot, right. And they looked right down the aisle and for about five seconds, I'm like, they're effing with it.
They would have burned the seats. I got annoyed because I was like, there's no way. And then the white T-shirt and I was like, white T bandage. So I know I sit there and I look at rappers, you know, music, rock musicians, wrestlers, you get a pop from the crowd. Like a normal person like me, I'll never understand what that feels like. What goes through your body when you hear that crowd lose it. And then when you're actually visible to them, because we all we all lost it. I'm fortunate that I've had these amazing highs in my career.
People always ask me, Oh, the money in the bank, that crowd reaction. That's crazy. Oh, when you came back, that crowd reaction was crazy. When you came back and survivors, I've been in my fair share of moments where I go, well, that's it. Don't get any higher than that.
It's literally all downhill from here, you know? And then I'll have another moment and I go, Whoa, wow, that's crazy. I've never done drugs in my life. I assume that this is what drugs feels like to want to capture this, to want to do it again. And that's one of the reasons I'm here. That's one of the reasons I'm still doing it because I'm a creative.
So I'm thinking of ways like, Okay, how do I chase that? Okay. Yeah, that was higher. And I've proven myself wrong so many times thinking that's the highest of the highs. Nope, this is.
Nope, this is. I'm going to keep chasing that. And everything I'm doing, all the ideas and everything is building towards, well, what's bigger than that? Oh, well, what's bigger than that? Well, it's bigger than that, you know? And sometimes you fall short, but sometimes you surpass it. When I walked out there, when my music hit, and first of all, you ever been in one of those elevators where it's shoulder to shoulder? Yeah. But you can't see in front of you because there's a tall dude and you're like, well, you know, luckily, I'm usually the tall dude. So I'm driving to the building and I don't have a deal yet. And I just, I call my lawyer and I go, I'm going to, I'm going to drive to the building, just in case. Okay.
Just keep working on it. It's insane. It's insane. How long does that drive from the crib?
I mean, depending on traffic, but at that time of year, no construction. So I think I got there pretty quick, 20 minutes, maybe. Okay. Yeah. And you know, man, I'm stressed out leaving the house.
You know what I mean? My wife's like, I'm so excited for you. You know, she's like, just put this white t-shirt on. I can't remember.
I was probably wearing this. I don't know. You know, get to, get to the building. Security comes out, hands me black sweatpants, hoodie, and he goes, sit in your car. Yeah.
All right. So here, you know, hoodie up and the truck next to me, cause we have, um, pictures of, you know, superstars on all the eight, all the 18 wheelers and the TV trucks and stuff like that. And I'm parked right next to the, the, uh, the TV truck. And it's just Steve Austin's head looking at me. So I'm just like, take a picture, sent it to Steve. You know what I mean? He hit me back with a WTF kid.
First of all, that's amazing. I just, I just sit there, you know, I'm literally just like sitting by yourself in the car by myself in the car. I'm listening to the clash and the Ramones. I'm trying to center myself, trying to think about, you know, like eight year old me in through the nose, out through the mouth, like this is just, you know, just literally trying to be in the moment if this happens. Cause it still wasn't a guarantee. Like if this happens, it's just going to set the world on its, on its ear. Was there ever a chance though, really that you might be like, nah, I'm peeling out and leaving me personally. Um, I mean, there could have been if there was like some, some hard nose to some things in the, you know, the contracts. But again, I think both sides were, they were eager.
They wanted it. You know what I mean? Um, but then you get the lawyers involved and then, you know, yeah, it's, it's a lot, it's a lot, but, uh, you know, I get a, I get a text and it's just like, okay, we're going to clear the hallway and we're going to come get you. And we're just going to put you in triple H's office.
Okay. So I run through the building. So like, you know, maybe you wrapped up like Michael Jackson, son, they put me in the freight elevator.
And it's funny because I know the building like the back of my hand. I'm like the stairs are right around the corner. I could just walk down the stairs. They put me in the freight elevator, freight, I hear him on the other side of the elevator or screaming and yelling, clear the hallway, clear the hallway. And I'm like, Oh no, like, I'm that guy. Now all the boys are going to be like, Oh, this is still, why do we have to, you know, but they, they clear the hallway and the freight elevator door opens up and hit like six steps.
This way is the door I'm walking into. And I walk in there and I just sit down and then I'm just in there and they're starting the war games match. Right. So it's literally like, I don't have a deal yet, you know, right at the end of the show.
Yeah. So I'm just sitting in there and the lawyers are going back and forth, you know, hammering stuff out and triple H walks in and he's just like, if, if this gets done, you know, we're just going to wait, you know, when the time's right, we're going to bring you in through gorilla. And I was like, okay, great.
So contracts get executed and it's time. And it's literally just like, okay, deep breath, open the door, walk through gorilla. And now I'm it's like, there's so many people in gorilla. Can I ask you, who was the first person you saw? Like, do you remember the first person you made eye contact with? And they were like, what the, because I got brought into gorilla and I don't think people knew, I think people were just piled in there because it's the end of the show and there's social media people who are going to be filming, you know, winners and losers coming through the curtain and they're, they're, they're doing their job and stuff like that.
And I remember being a gorilla and then all of a sudden I get bear hugged from behind. And like, as I kind of turn around to see who it is, it's Bailey standard. And she's like, I, I knew it. She's like, as soon as they started yelling at us to clear the hallway, she's like, I knew it. And she's not letting go of me. And then like, you know, the triple H is there, you know, Bailey, let them go.
Stephanie. I remember seeing it, having a moment with, you know, there's somebody I haven't seen in 10 years. Right. You know what I mean? There's somebody that, you know, people are like, oh, they hate each other.
And, you know, Regal, I remember looking at Regal and Regal going, look at us, look at us, but there was just so many people in there. It was like, and, and then I don't, I don't know what to do. I absolutely lose my composure. Yeah. Cause all's I know is, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, my composure.
Yeah. Cause all's I know is I'm coming out, but I don't, I don't, I, I, I don't know what the set looks like. I don't know if there's a ramp. I'm literally like in the dark walking in blind. So I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm trying to talk to triple H over the table, you know, and I'm, but, and it's so loud and there's so many people and they like hit my music and I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing.
What am I doing? And he's like, and he's like, go out and walk, walk down to the cage. And I'm like, go out and walk all the way down the cage.
That's crazy. And he was trying to tell me that there was two cages for the baby faces and the heels for war games. And he wanted me to walk down and stand in between there. And in my head, I'm like, I'm marching all the way to the cage. And he's like, no, my music's playing. And you're like, we're going back and forth. And I'm like, I mean, we're both freaking out.
No. And like, he's ripped his headset off and I'm like, Oh God, what are we doing? You know? And we've obviously we figured it out, but I'll never look at that. The chaos backstage, brother.
I mean, it's the last minute. There was so much stuff going on back there and they film everything now. So I'm sure someday we're going to see a lot of cool stuff. Your next, it was just such a, it was just such a great moment. And I love that chaos and that uncertainty again. I was like, man, I could just drink it up all day. But when I, when the music hit, it was, it was deafening.
Yeah. I was like, Oh man. And then I'm, I'm trying to, I'm trying to time it. Cause you know, you, you, you, you have cues of when I'm going to walk out, this is when I do this. This is when I go here, you know? But the other thing is tell, tell this story. Once all that stuff started happening, you know, I'm, I'm tight with the band.
And so, so they're calling me going, Hey, they're trying to, they're trying to license the song again. If this isn't for you, it's a hard no. And I was like, I didn't want to, I didn't want to say anything. So I, I kind of, I kind of told him it was for me without saying, I was like, maybe you should just let it happen. And Corey Corey's like, is it you or is it not you?
And I was like, Corey, just, I think, I think you should think about it, but what we did really? Yes. Yes.
Yes. And that's because we paid the band. Okay. We're not paying the record label. Oh, okay.
All right. They re they rerecorded it and remastered it smart. Yes. How quickly, how quickly were they able to do that?
Feel much better being like, here's, here's your, you know, here you go. How quickly were they able to turn that around? I mean, I think it was like an anniversary thing anyway. So I think it was already, it wasn't something perfect timing again. Yeah.
Yeah. The universe universe provides, but again, music hits and I, and I, and I walk out there. And then when I appear, you know, again, I was like, oh, that's loud. I can't hear the song really. And then when I appear and it got to another decibel level and I was just like, I have never experienced anything like this in my entire life. I felt like I was inside of a jet engine because it wasn't anything discernible. It wasn't, I couldn't close my eyes and be like, yeah, that's a crowd of 16,000 people losing their mind. It was just white noise. It was just noise.
One of the, if not the hard to argue that it isn't the number one moment of my career. Yeah. A pop like no other. I want to run through a brick wall right now. Yeah. Now, you know, here we are, you're getting ready for hell in a cell.
Yeah. How do you even mentally get ready for something like that? We as mere mortals, you know, like getting like in hell in a cell sounds insane.
I don't like doing it on the game. I'm mentally prepared that like, I know what I have to do. And it's a high pressure situation. And I feel like I have to deliver a classic and I have to stay true to, you know, myself, my beliefs of what good wrestling is. And that cell that I feel like as a company we've gotten away from for so long where it just became a toy, like we're just going to have a pay-per-view call it hell in a cell and everyone's going to go inside and have matches when in reality, like that should be presented as the most dangerous diabolical thing that any wrestler would ever want to do. The way, the way Sean and taker set it up, the way mankind and taker set it up. Yes.
But again, as a business, you know, in a capitalist capitalist country, like you get away with it, you know, you get away from it. So I want to bring it back to what it's supposed to be. I don't want to have a cell that needs a match.
I want to have a match that needs the cell. And I feel like me and drew have done that. Like there's no other way. There's no other way to settle this.
You guys are the most vengeful thing that is going through WWE right now. Yeah. So how do you, so, you know, how do you settle that? Did you put them in a cell? That's it.
Then once the door closes, the door does not open two men enter one man leaves. That's it when done right. There is just nothing like a great wrestling match. It's the best form of theater, athleticism, art, all that combined. There's just really nothing like it as a performer. When me as the actor has to get the job done, but I get to work with somebody who I was a fan of, where there are many moments for you as a performer, where like, you know what you have to do, you know what you have to do in the ring. And that mindset is still there, but it's like, Oh my God, I get to work with such and such. How many times does that happen for you?
And what were some of your moments? I doing dark match stuff with Austin. Cause he would, he would always be around, you know? And it was like one of those things where he was retired, he's out of the ring, but they would bring him in every once in again, you know, like maybe he had a TV show he wanted to promote, or maybe they just, I don't know, wanted to pop the town or something like that. But I think wrestling has always had a difficult time figuring out what to do with people that were no longer in the ring, but we're still extremely valuable. Like what, how do we get more of that? There's only so many coaching positions. And not everybody's a good coach, but like you got a guy like Steve Austin. I remember I was in San Diego and he's just backstage, like twiddling his thumbs, you know what I mean?
I think they were doing like maybe a season of Tough Enough or something like that, like 2009 ish or something. So he was there and then he's just like kind of sitting there and I'm looking and I'm like, nobody's, nobody's talking to him. He's just sitting by himself.
It's a wealth of knowledge. And I walk up to him and I go, Hey, what are you doing? Yeah.
What do you mean? I'm like, you done for the night? He's like, yeah, I did my segment. I was like, listen, I got to do dark match. And the dark matches at that point were like the worst because it's an, it's so it's, it's an advertised match to sell tickets. So whatever it is, and it was normally me versus John or Ray or taker or, you know, Jeff until he was gone.
So I was always the heel doing this stuff. And we were in San Diego, so I'm assuming it was Ray. And I I'm looking at arguably the biggest star in the industry.
Who's Ferrari is this? And I, and I go you want to come out and send these people home. Happy goddamn kid. What do you got in mind? Well, I'm supposed to do a dark match and I really don't want to take a bunch of bumps and nothing is going to make these people happier than me going out there, beating up Ray, inviting a bunch of other heels out, beating up Ray, and then hit the, hit the music, glass breaks. You come down.
I go, you want to give us all a bunch of stunners. And he's just, I, you know, and like, it's the first time I saw that twinkle in Steve's eye. He's like, God damn kid. Can we, can we do that?
It's amazing. I was just like, do you know who you are? You can do whatever the fuck you want. And that, so now I got to, Oh, now I got to go get the boys.
Cause we're in San Diego. A lot of people have red eyes and stuff. And I remember I got Ms.
Truth. And I was like, guys, you want to take some stunners? And then, and everybody of course is just like, yes, let's go. And it just turned into, you know, we're all nerds. We're all just geeks taking stunners from Austin and he does a beer bath. And like those people went home happy. Those people are going to come back the next time they're going to walk past the box office and be like, I had such a good time.
I'm buying tickets now. It was like when I worked with Brett and I say, worked with Brett, like I worked a match with him, but he came in and again, I was working, made me think I was, I was working a match with Ray. I want to say maybe Brett was the referee. This is just on some random raw, you know? And again, they bring Brett in.
They're not really doing anything with them. I feel like we can better facilitate now what to do with all of these legends when they come around, instead of just like, you know, cheap pop, here he is, look at him, you know, I want to involve him. And I selfishly never got to work with Steve Austin or Brett Hart. So of course I walk up to Brett and I'm like, Hey, I have an idea. You can say no, if you want to, because I never know if anybody wants to do anything or whatever.
What do you think of after the pin? You know, I, I shoved you and stuff like that. You know, you want to punch me and put me in a Sharpie, you know, and again, you know, again, I see him light up and he's just like, yeah, yeah, I do. Is that okay with you? I mean, is it okay with me? I'm a bad guy. You know, like put me in the sharpshooter, Brett Hart, please. So they, I, and, and there's been, I don't want to say countless times.
I've gotten to do that with some legends that I never thought I would be able to work with in any capacity, but yeah, again, fortunate, like I got to do that with those guys. All right, hold on. I know, I know. Okay. We didn't expect punk to come in here and talk for almost two hours.
Definitely not what you got away. I mean, are you going to cut seeing punk off when he's telling stories? I'm not getting put to sleep. Yeah.
I'm not, I'm not doing that. So please come back next week for part two. We will not only finish our punk interview, but we will also get into the results of bad blood.
Exactly. Also we'll, we'll get into the, the fifth anniversary of dynamite and those results. There are things that we're going to talk about with punk that even though I've never heard before, if you have definitely, but we get into some great stories about the great Paul Heyman stories about him being on the road. Road stories are always stories on the gold.
You will not want to miss next week. We also ask him what, what wrestlers he would like to have in a bar fight to help him get to the car. And also because he spent so much time with us for anyone, really you come on here, we're going to induct you into our hall of fame. So I asked him, see, I'm punk.
Give us three matches to put in the hall of fame with you. And those answers might surprise you. Yeah, absolutely. He also might give you some interesting tidbits about Kofi Kingston and remembered guys, no contest wrestling podcast on Instagram. Check us out.
It's a brand new page. We're starting from scratch. Help us build it up next week. We hope to see you there.
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