Joe Vardon: Winning Is No Longer Guaranteed In The Olympics

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That's dell.com slash deals. This is The Rich Eisen Show with guest host Mike Hill from The Rich Eisen Show Studio in Los Angeles. The way Jerry Jones conducts his business.

I don't have a sense of urgency. CeeDee Lamb saw that video and retweeted it. Earlier on the show, four-time Olympic medalist gymnast Dominique Dawes. Coming up, Cowboys beat writer for the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, Clarence Hill Jr. Senior NBA writer for The Athletic, Joe Varden. Comedian, Steve Trevino. And now, sitting in for Rich, it's Mike Hill. Here we go!

Yeah! Let's keep it going on The Rich Eisen Show. Our member two hanging out with you. Mike Hill filling in for the great Rich Eisen here.

Give us a call to 844204 Rich. Happy to be with you. We talked to Dominique Dawes about the Olympics a little bit earlier. The gymnastics part. But so many great storylines in this year's Olympics, man. It was so phenomenal. I think this was one of the more memorable Olympics. Summer Olympic Games that I can remember from the standpoint of just the different sports. We're talking about from gymnastics obviously with Simone Biles making her comeback. Even the controversy with Jordan Childs there.

Noah Lowes and that fantastic finish. And then to run the 200 with COVID and get a bronze medal. I think that's nuts. I don't know if you've ever had COVID or not, but you can't breathe. It's very difficult.

It's very difficult to breathe. So run really fast. Now, I don't know if it was smart for him to run with COVID.

I don't know how the other athletes felt with him running with COVID. But yeah, I mean, but you know, I think that's where we are right now with COVID. It's almost like we just kind of live with it. You know what I'm saying?

We're just here to kind of live with it. And you get tested based on what's actually coming up in your life. If you got to work, you'll get tested. Like, oh, let me see if I got it. I got jury duty this week. It's positive right here. I see the line. If you got to go to a concert, you probably just gonna like, oh, I just got a cold. It's a little sniffle. You ain't even gonna get tested, man. But the USA men's basketball team, fifth straight gold medal in the Olympics.

Getting it done, especially last two games were classics against Serbia and against France in the gold medal game as well. And a man who had a front row seat for all of it was Joe Varden of The Athletic. He joins us right now on the Rich Eisen Show. Joe, how you doing? Are you still over in France? I am in London. Yeah, just a nice little layover here for a day before I make the flight home tomorrow. And the way you said it sounded like you're, I am in London. It's like, it's almost like you kind of picked up the English accent over there while you're over there as well, man. Yeah, I mean, this is my second trip to London this summer. You know, we came through here as part of the Olympic preseason tour with Team USA. So, yeah, I could see that maybe and maybe even a few we's and merci's mixed in there on top of it.

Official citizen there, man. I know you enjoyed your time. Just watching this team this year, obviously a lot of expectations on Team USA basketball, the men's side and the women's side, obviously. But what you saw in the last two games, especially against Serbia and against France, what do you come away with watching that team? Oh my, I mean, I think that the Serbia game may have been one of the greatest wins in USA history, certainly. And then the gold medal game against France in Paris, an actual true road game in a championship, that's probably the toughest environment that a USA basketball team has had to play in.

So, you know, I start there. Then I get pretty quickly to the part where, like, I think as a nation, as a basketball loving, sort of basketball dominant nation, we need to understand that things have fundamentally changed. And it doesn't matter what team we bring to an Olympics, who we throw out there. Winning is no longer guaranteed. It took, you know, four of the best players of all time playing together at an extremely high level to narrowly avoid losing in the semi-finals. And then you take that same great team, and for the second Olympics in a row, so it's like whether it was the team, the hybrid team with Durant and Dame Lillard and Drew and Booker, and then you have some role players mixed in, or you have this super all-star team. France was, again, within three points with, like, three minutes left. That's two gold medal games in a row.

So this is the deal. So if you want to compare this team to the dream team, it's an almost impossible comparison because the competition was so much different. But the way we celebrate the dream team for the dominance and sort of the style and the bringing the game global, like the dream team did, I think we need to celebrate this team for having been able to rise to the challenges that were created by that dream team.

I think you're absolutely right. One thing I can give this team a lot of credit for is having a lot of heart to be as many points down to Serbia in the third quarter and then fight back into being an all-out battle against France in hostile territory with all the expectations on Team USA. Because anything other than a goal is a disappointment for this basketball team. To see Kevin Durant go out there and play defense the way he played, I mean, that in itself says something about it. But, you know, LeBron James was phenomenal. He was named the MVP.

But Steph Curry, lasting memories. I mean, you're there. You're watching it. We're watching it on television and we're amazed. What is it like in the arena when Steph just does what he does in that fourth quarter against France with those four big three-pointers late?

Now, you keep talking about all these wonderful Olympic memories and I keep thinking about all the French red wine that erased all these memories. To your point, the MVP voting is a little funny. They put up a QR code in the media room starting before the semi-fight. Basically, it's media and then FIBA experts.

So, I'm not even sure who that entails. Basically, it's like if you have access to that media room beginning on the semi-final round day, you can cast your vote. And LeBron had been the American's most consistent player. Certainly, if you go past the Olympics and include the the five-game exhibition season and, you know, we were covering that every day and ESPN had done a lot of coverage on it.

So, like everybody was up to date on how the U.S. had been playing. And so, I think that's how LeBron gets the MVP. I mean, for Steph to have 36 and then I think 26 and to make 17 threes in the semi-final and final in games that they probably would have lost had Steph not made those shots. He, of course, is the MVP for this tournament.

And I think actually, like, this shouldn't have been the case that a player of his level and with his resume and career could somehow add to his legacy. But he did with those four shots. Four threes in three minutes. The last one being double-teamed by two taller players with two wide open guys, teammates.

And he just threw it up there and, of course, it splashed and that was the end. So, yeah, I mean, I feel like, you know, I've been there for a lot of Steph Curry's great moments. Covered every championship that he's ever won, including this one now. So, I, but this one, the way he did it you know, he made the comparison, like, winning an NBA Finals. There's more to it because you have to play for nine months. This is such a sprint.

But the feeling of accomplishment, he said in the short term, does feel similar. And I will walk away from this, you know, remembering those four shots and the signature that he left on the last two games. Yeah, NBA Finals, you win 4-7. I mean, in the Olympics, it's almost like playing in the NCAA tournament.

You know, you lose one game and you lose one game and that could cost you the gold medal there depending on when you lose that game. But talking about those memories, I was talking before the show and I believe that those four shots, that sequence of events with Steph Curry is the most memorable sequence of events ever in USA basketball. You got to go back to 1972 in a bad moment for USA basketball against the USSR when they had the controversial time put back on the clock. But this, as far as good memories are concerned, this is the one we'll be looking back at 30 years from now and still be amazed.

I think so. I mean, like, you know, you think about the dream team and you think about Michael, you know, going up to the scores table for the gold medal game. You know, you think about like some of the Vinsanity dunks, certainly the Redeem team and Kobe Bryant running through teammate Pau Gasol in an early game against Spain.

You remember that. But it's just, yeah, like to your point, the NBA team, there's one time where they sent NBA players and lost in an Olympics and that was 2004. But never has a team this good been this legitimately challenged. Like, it wasn't like they weren't playing well. It wasn't like they were underachieving. Like, this was all real. And so, like, for them to come together as they did and meet that challenge, yeah, I think you could really make that case that this is the best story or, you know, should be the most celebrated.

Like, however you want to slice it. Like, they really did something in Paris. They did.

I mean, they took care of the business. But once again, like you mentioned, the rest of the world seems like it's catching up. I mean, even in the NBA right now, you see a lot of foreign players. Last four MVPs have been foreign players.

I mean, three, of course, by Jokic, Joel Embiid, who played for Team USA, could have played for France, could have played for the African country as well. So, the foreign players, thanks to the dream teams, are catching up. Do you ever see a time though, like maybe even in, you know, in LA where Team USA might not be the favorite going into the Olympic Games, even though they won five straight gold medals, even though they send some of their best NBA players over there?

Well, I wrote about this. It's on the athletic right now, the what's next. And, you know, a lot of it has to do with what kind of team does Team USA want to send in four years? Is it another all-star type roster or is it more like what we've actually seen in the past few Olympics, where there are some stars and then some high-level, very specialized role players that can fit in different situations and otherwise aren't that concerned about having their minutes cut?

It starts there. You know, the United States is always going to have more depth, I think, than any opponent. And that includes France, who will send in 2028 a team that has Victor Wimbunyama and Ugo Bali. And then there are four players from France who were drafted in the first round of this past NBA draft. None of them were on the national team now.

They could all be there in four years. So to your question, will there ever be a time where the Americans aren't the favorite? I mean, you know, ever, maybe. But that won't be the case unless Victor has become so far and away the best player in the league by then that he, like, that odds-makers decide that he can change outcomes of games on his own. Being the favorite is a lot different than this idea that we're all used to about almost guaranteed success. The guarantee has been gone for a while, but still most of us, I'm different, like, one of my jobs is to cover USA basketball full-time.

But for, you know, us, meaning the Americans in general, we tune in about every four years. And we remember the dream team, and we know it's 12 NBA players, and we forget, A, how many NBA players are now from other countries, and B, we don't understand how much better the other professional leagues have gotten. We're getting a lot closer to soccer than we realize, where, yeah, there's a Premier League over here in the UK that's amazing, but there's also a great league in France, and there's a great league in Spain, and then they all, you know, then they have their champion circuit, like, based on the best teams from every league, whatever. The Euro basketball league is, like, getting there, and there are French basketball coaches from the national team who tell me that they think that there are three or four teams currently playing in the Euro league that could beat the Pistons, that could win these Spurs, that could beat Obali's Wizards. So, like, yeah, so you put those two things together about the top-level NBA talent, and then how good these Euro leagues are, that's why the rest of the world is able to compete with a team that has LeBron, Steph, and Durant.

I would love to see an NBA All-Star team go up against a European All-Star team, just an All-Star team, like, all of Europe against the United States, just to see, just to kind of see if we got that, you know, because when we talk about world champions, you're always talking about the NBA champions, but now with the world catching up with the NBA, maybe we need to actually see who the real world champion is. Before I let you go, a lot was made about a player who didn't play a lot, you know, and Steve Kerr took some criticism, but one thing I give him credit for is, like, you know, he played to win, and he put the best team out on the floor with the matchups considered that he felt like could help that team win, and Jason Tatum seemed like he was an odd man out in a lot of those games, and people were up in arms about that because, obviously, he's a first-team All-NBA player, just won a championship. Over there, was that getting as much play as it was over here? What was the talk and the attitude from some of the players and even Jason about that, about his role on his team this year? Yeah, I mean, I think because of the buzz that was being created back home, I think everybody sees that here, and it was certainly a topic of discussion with Jason.

He addressed it with a gold medal around his neck. Like, think about this, like, you know, the Jason Tatum summary, he wins an NBA championship, he gets a $314 million new contract, birth of the second child, you know, cover of video games and whatever, and then now he wins a gold medal, and he's standing there talking about the personal disappointment of not playing. I think that if you are on the side of the debate where you know that, like, these tournaments are way different than the NBA and you're trying to win, that a coach has to make a tough decision about only playing a few certain guys, and that Tatum lost his minutes to Devin Booker, who was exceptional.

But if you're on the other side of the debate, you can't hear this. Like, it doesn't matter how many times you try to explain this idea about a rotation and only 40-minute games and, like, the position that Derek White plays against the position that Tatum plays, you know, that Tatum would have had to steal minutes from LeBron, Durant, or Booker. How is that going to happen in this tournament? But that that doesn't land for somebody who's just thinking, you know, this guy's a three-time first-team All-NBA player, perennial All-Star, and he's now a champion. History will judge Steve correctly, or fairly, because he won. So he did it right. But what matters now is what Tatum thinks about it, because they need him back in 2028.

They definitely need him with the young talent along with Anthony Edwards and others like that, who we mentioned before. Jovari does an excellent job for the athletic, covering the NBA in basketball, and he joins us here on the Rich Eisen Show. Come on back home, man, before you lose your U.S. citizenship, brother. Yes, sir, I'll be right there. Thank you. All right, Joe, safe travels to you, man.

Thanks for joining us here on the Rich Eisen Show. Yeah, man, Jason Tatum, they need this guy, man. For 2028, obviously, I was confused because, like, two of his teammates, Drew Holliday and Derek White, seemed like they were getting more playing time. Like, what is it that Jason Tatum can't do that they could do? I know Drew plays great defense, don't get me wrong, but I'm just saying I didn't understand how he's not getting any time. Tatum should refuse to play in 28. Nah, I don't know.

I don't know. He shouldn't refuse to play. He shouldn't refuse to play. I want him to play. Let's not go there.

Let's not go there, Captain. We need him in 2020. We need you, Jason. Please come on back for the light skinned brother congregation. We need you to be great in 2028. You're going to lose the king of the light skins now.

I know we already lose the stuff, man. Come on. That was one and done.

That's the way you're doing. You brought us back. I appreciate yourself for bringing the light skinned brothers back to notoriety because Drake took a big L for us over the summer. He took a huge L for us over the summer. We need great contributions like Steph Curry to bring us back.

Obama's already gone. Come on, man. We got to bring you back.

All right. We're going to talk about the NFL. We're going to talk about the Dallas Cowboys. How about them Dallas Cowboys and everything they got going on? They see Jerry Jones backpedaling like he's, you know, like a quarterback there.

Talk to Clarence Hill Jr., the Fort Worth Star-Telegram coming up. Let's talk about sleep number, people. We all know in the NFL there's no margin for error.

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See store for details. The Rich Eisen Show is sponsored by Grainger. Does this sound familiar? You're a maintenance specialist and you've been squaring off with a leaky radiator at your facility for hours.

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Call 1-800-GRAINGER, click Grainger.com, or just stop by one of their local branches. Do I call you a free agent quarterback sitting here? What do I call you? I don't know, man.

This is my first time going through this. You tell me, call me whatever, I guess. I will call you Jack Prescott.

That works. I'm going to ask you the question this way about what contract you think you're going to get, okay, in terms of pie. Because I've heard there's less pie. I've heard there's less pie.

That's right, there's Jerry Jones right there, the voice of Jerry Jones. We've heard there's less pie. We've heard there's more pie. I'm wondering if you think this is deep dish pie.

How deep is that? Is it a deep dish pie? If I'm guessing, I'd say yeah. Okay.

Yeah. Is it franchise pie? I would say.

You would say? Well, I mean, I don't know what kind of pie we're talking about. A franchise tag pie.

Excuse me. Is it franchise tag pie? Oh, I don't know.

I mean. Long-term pie? Is it long-term pie?

I don't know. I just want a piece of the pie. Just put it like that. Okay. It takes a last chunk out of the pie. That's it? Yeah, okay. And is it a pie that starts with a four?

Is it a pie that starts with a four? I just said I'm leaving it up to my agents to cut my piece of the pie. I'm just ready for it and ready to eat.

So when that happens, I'm ready to get to work and excited for this off season. And now we've also heard through DeMarcus Ware told us that when you sit in Jerry's office, have you gotten the Jerry's office meeting yet? I've been in Jerry's office.

Okay. And then he lights a candle, turns the lights down and gives you a whole Dallas Cowboys speech. Have you had that? You have not had that yet.

No, I haven't had that one yet. He says that that happens when he's trying to close a deal. So I think you'll know that you're really close. If you walk in lights, turn off lights, go down.

Thank you for that, that warning and that heads up. So now I know like what's going on when that happens. Apparently a votive candle with a Dallas Cowboys star right on the side of it. I don't know if it's scented. It's to make me, it's a smell.

It makes me the smell of pie of some sort. I'm just saying that hasn't happened yet is what you're saying. It hasn't happened. When you get that call, you know, wow, I'm close. Back on the Rich Eisen show on the, uh, the TV side is showing, uh, an old clip of Dak Prescott, uh, talking to rich about his last contract and talking about Miami Senate candles and everything. Yeah. The candles that we smell right now, the Cowboys don't smell that good, bro. There is less pie. Yeah.

No time, no pie, no wick, nothing, man. We'll talk about that in a second with Clarence Hill. Welcome back to the Rich Eisen show radio network, sitting in on the Rich Eisen show desk furnished by Grainger with supplies and solutions for every industry. Grainger has the right product for you.

Call click Grainger.com or just stop by. Yeah. Those Cowboys who played preseason game yesterday, lost to the Rams here in LA. Of course, their training camp is right here in LA as well.

The LA proper area outside of the LA city limits. Um, not going on with the Cowboys this off season, trying to get people in camp, CD lamb, still holding out, looking for a contract, got to sign Dak Prescott, of course, uh, in, uh, Michael Parsons. So a lot of decisions gotta be made for this Cowboys team, uh, in the near future. We'll talk about that with Clarence Hill in just a second, but here's Jerry Jones after Jerry Jones said that there was no sense of urgency to sign CD lamb and all pro receiver last year, no sense of urgency.

No, no, no problem. Uh, Jerry doing a little backpedaling yesterday before the show. I think I got in trouble with the other day when I said, uh, uh, look, we're not urgent about CD. Well, no one appreciates CD being on the field anymore than I do.

But let me say this. He wouldn't be taking a snap out here today. If he had been here for a while, you you've got to use your head when you expose key players and that gives the other younger players a chance to do it. Uh, we know exactly what CD can do and he worked out with that. And so we wouldn't have him out here. It has really not anything to do with his contract. We've got, I won't be out here this afternoon.

And so the bottom line is, uh, what it is is no, there's not that urgency. Now I understand completely the angst that's happening when you are anxious about, and someone says anything about whether you're missed or not. Well, CD you're missed.

Trevon Diggs would be happy with that back pedal right there, boy. That's the way he done looked at Jerry Jones, the owner, general manager of the Dallas Cowboys. Uh, Clarence Hill, uh, Jr. of the Fort Worth Star Telegram knows him very well.

Covers the scene, does an outstanding job. How long have you been there now, Clarence? Uh, this is about 28th training camp, 28, 28 years of misery.

Oh wow. 28. So last time they actually won was 96. Was it 96? So you were 96 Super Bowl 95 season. That was, that was like one of your first seasons, right? No, my first season full season was 97.

Oh, you've missed it. So it's you, like I tell people they me, cause I raised champions. My daughter was a state champion gymnast and my oldest daughter was the NAACP image world winner. So I raised champions. So it's bigger than me. That's what I'm talking about.

And your last name is Hill. So we, we, we're not jinxes. Yeah. We think we mess up as marriage.

I was me. You, you, you boys too, but we're not going to talk about, we ain't going to talk about that either, man. We'll uh, let's talk about this. Uh, maybe CD lamb will be the voice in the Cowboys very soon. If he doesn't get what he wants, man, from what you're hearing, what's the latest on that? First of all, that's not happening. The Cowboys have never lost anybody. They wanted to keep, there's never lost any, you know, high draft pick that they came up with new cards. They've all signed new deal. There's, it hasn't been easy. It's been in negotiation. It's been the art of negotiating the process.

That's not happening. Uh, certainly Jerry Jones, I would say had his Zeke who moment over the last week. I don't know if you remember the Zico conversations back in 2019 when Jerry made a joke about Zico was Zico was holding out in Cabo. Yep.

Yeah. Tony Paul had a good game and Jerry says Zico Jerry was joking. He likes to joke, likes to have fun. It's not fun when you're on the other side of negotiate. It's funny because one thing Zeke told us earlier in this camp was talking about CDs camp is that the first four years of your career, everybody loves you. Everybody organization tells you how good you are. And then you're across the negotiating tables and it's different.

You're out there at lonely out there by yourself. And certainly that was the situation here with CD. You know, the Jerry done a million negotiation. Okay. Need contract negotiation.

It's fun. It's business for him, for the player that's personal. And when you, when I hear my owner say, it's not urgent to get me signed, it's personal. So he took offense to that. And certainly he retweeted what Jerry said and, and with the LOL. And then he took the Cowboys logo was all off his social media handles, everything else. But just like with the Zico situation, when Jerry says Zico, Zeke was mad. Then a few days later, a few weeks later, Zeke signed the richest contract of running back NFL history. And they got t-shirts with Zico on them. Yeah. I mean, but here's the thing though.

That year they didn't have to, I don't know if it had that to sign. You got, you got Michael Parsons, you got to sign, you got to make decisions. And right before we came on the air, we was on television talking about the piece of the pie.

The pie is only so big. I know the salary cap grows or whatever, but the pie is so big and you got to make a decision on what you're going to give Dak, what you're going to get Michael Parsons and what's going to be left over if you get CD his contract. So I think CD probably wants maybe what Justin Jefferson gets and CD deserves what Justin Jefferson gets. What are the chances that he gets what he wants and he's satisfied with the Cowboys is to maintain that stay there.

Well, as I said before, everybody's always gotten what they wanted. You know, all the decisions they got to make now, this is the decisions they have to make when it comes to Dak and Micah and everybody else. Take that in consideration as well.

No doubt. You know, and, and Michael's coming up next year. Micah's not this year and the cap does go up. CD is a priority right now because he's not in the camp. Dak's in camp.

Dak's in the catbird seat. Either the Cowboys going to pay him or somebody's going to pay him in frequency. He's, you know, the market's the market, you know, he's looking at, you know, talking to people, $60 million in frequency, you know, or whatever else. So the Cowboys have to pay him at least, you know, the floor for Dak is 55 million. Certainly CD wants that Justin Jefferson deal and being that ballpark. He deserves that. And that's what we're looking at. And I think at some point he's going to get it because he's the priority right now.

He's the one that's not in camp. You know, this is a season I say on the brink for the Cowboys. You got Mike McCartlin last year of his deal, the entire coaching staff of their deals. You got 30 something players in the final year of their contract.

There's no next year for the majority of this team. And you, if you're trying to win, you're trying to get it done. And Jerry says it's all in. He needs CD in camp.

Yeah. He's got to get CD in camp. He's got to get that weapon for Dak Prescott. Speaking of Dak Prescott, like you said, they're all in either make or break year for maybe Dak Prescott, maybe Mike McCarthy as well. Which has the most pressure on him? Which guy has the most pressure on him? Is it Dak or is it Mike McCarthy? I think it's Mike McCarthy for sure. Because again, the Cowboys want Dak longterm.

It's just a matter of coming to terms of numbers. And I think that whether it's with the Cowboys somewhere else Dak is going to get paid. He's proven he's a top 10 quarterback. He's a free agent, unrestricted free agent on the market.

He's in the catbird seat. He has all the leverage against the Cowboys because of the contract he gave him before. And because of the situation, Mike McCarthy has no leverage.

You know, he had done a great job on paper, 12 and five, 12 and five, 12 and five. Each of the last three years, no coaches won more games than Mike McCarthy. Other than Andrew Reid, the difference is Andrew Reid won two Super Bowls that time.

Mike McCarthy has been one and done in the playoffs. You know, he has one playoff win. And so for his future, you know, he has to win.

He has to go further. Dak has a future in his league. Whether it's with the Cowboys or somewhere else, he's going to get paid. He's going to be a franchise quarterback at 2025 no matter what. The question is, where will Mike McCarthy be in 2025? He needs to win.

He's the cowboy. Take the Cowboys further than they've gone. You know, since the last Super Bowl title in 1995 and with quote unquote, a lesser team. So, so when you say further, does that mean get to the Super Bowl? I mean, winning one or two playoff games in the playoffs is not enough.

Like, does he have to get to the Super Bowl this year? I think you at least need to get the NFC championship game. This team has not even gotten to the NFC championship game since 1995. And the sad part is, and really the crux of the matter is last year was supposed to be their best chance. You're a number two seed. You got a seven seed Green Bay coming in.

That's how you're healthy if you've ever been going to the playoffs and you get the doors blown off for you at home. And so that's the thing that's hanging over this team's head since the end of the season, throughout the off season. And then certainly what Mike McCarthy and the Cowboys have to get, they have to find a way to play the best football when it matters most. That includes Dak Prescott, that includes C.D. Lance, but that most certainly includes Mike McCarthy to get his team to play the best football in the playoffs when it matters most. Like you say, that's going to get paid regardless next season.

It's going to be the Cowboys somewhere else, like the $60 million range or whatever. I looked at the preseason game yesterday. I'm like, Trey Lance threw 41 passes, 25, 41, 188 yards. I know he didn't have a touchdown interception.

They're giving him some looks. What does that say to you that he planned that much in the preseason? Are they thinking possibly, okay, let's see what this guy has just in case we have life without Dak?

Will there be an injury this season or maybe next year? No, I mean, the thing about Lance is he's undone by his draft status. The 49ers overdrafting. They drafted in third overall pick. They gave him three first round picks for him. So everybody looks, hey, this former first round picks on the team. Maybe he's a threat for Dak Prescott.

Maybe it's an option to replace Dak Prescott if they don't get it done. Trey Lance needs to find out. They need to find out Trey Lance can be a quarterback in this league. You know, his problem is that he's not played a lot of quarterback throughout his career, dating back to high school. He only started one year going back to college.

He only had 17 stars in three years. He only played four, had four snaps, four stars, I'm sorry, in San Francisco. He has not played a lot of football.

He does not have a lot of time on task. The Cowboys just trying to find out if he can be a quarterback, a backup quarterback of the future. Right now he's competing, potentially with Cooper Rush to be the backup quarterback. But if I'm the Cowboys, there's nothing Trey Lance can do in the preseason against backups and limited reps and limited schemes to, if Dak's hurt, I'm going to put him in over Cooper Rush, who's five and one as a starter in real games.

Five and one's a starter in real games. He can be a backup. He showed you that. And so they're trying to find out what they have in Trey Lance. What type of player can be, you know, it's, there's, there's no threat at all to Dak Prescott's job. You know, it's funny because everybody talks about, you know, you look, you go back to Patrick Mahomes when he was a rookie and Alex Smith was starting in Kansas city and Alex Smith was starting and winning games, but you had a lot of buzz about what Patrick Mahomes would do in practice. Trey Lance was here all year. There was no buzz, no buzz.

There was, there was no, oh, this guy's doing this in practice. He's, he's, he's a great kid. Nice kid. Loved him to death. He's a decent athlete, good athlete. But there's nothing next level about his game that says this guy should be the starter in place of Trey, I mean, Dak Prescott. Chill, I've been knowing you since 2002, I believe when I was down here in Dallas, man.

Love you to death, bro. Cowboys fans. I know how they are down there in the, in the Metroplex. I know all around the country how Cowboys fans, high expectations, whatnot. And every single year, I think they're, you know, disillusioned because they think they're going to win the Superbowl.

We're not hearing that as much. They just did a poll, I believe in over 70% of some of the Cowboys fans don't think they're going to win the Superbowl in the next 10 years. How has expectations been tampered a little bit, you know, hammer down a little bit in the Cowboys land and, and, and is that a good thing? Cause they can just go into the season saying, okay, well maybe we don't have expectations. We can actually do something that might surprise the fans out here.

The problem is whether it's a good thing or bad thing, people still gonna be talking about them. You know, the, the, the attention is still going to be there, but yeah, fans are as disillusioned and frustrated I've ever seen, you know, going into a season. It is not just because the last three years, because the last 28 years, I mean, they have not been to the NFC title game since the last trip to the Superbowl in 1995 has been nothing but frustration.

Look at my Twitter bio. I got like seven coaches and four playoff wins, nothing but unfulfilled expectations, you know, from the retirement of Troy Emmett and Michael to the Quincy Carter years to the T.O. and Tony Romo rollercoaster years to now we got the Dak and Zeke years. And it's still the same results for Cowboy fans. So they're frustrated. They're disillusioned. So, but the expectations inside the organization, expectations for the media, the attention for the media is not changed. They don't, you know, they're on prime time every week. People are still going to be talking about Dak's contract and Zeke's contract and CeeDee Lamb's contract. So I don't know that expectations are lower. I mean, Cowboy fans has PTSD right now for sure, but the expectation within the organization for people outside the organization, if they don't win, it's still going to be blared in six inch headlines.

Yeah. The spotlight is still going to be like the Lakers, the Cowboys. I mean, America's team is still going to be there. ESPN, every, all the organizations, the sports news organizations will still be talking about the Cowboys. We talked about everything that Prescott, CeeDee Lamb, got to get him in camp. The defense, Mike Zimmer now, the defense coordinator taking over Quinn back.

I love them to death. I think the defense is going to be better with, even though the defense was great last year on the Quinn. I think Mike Zimmer is just a guy that just breezed the Cowboys. He's a long-term defense coordinator back in the fold there with them. With everything that they have going on, you've been around this team, like you said, 28 seasons. What is going to be the biggest factor in determining if they get to at least the NFC Championship game with Super Bowl this year, in your opinion? I mean, they have to be better on defense. I mean, you know, you know, people talk so much about Dak Prescott and his play against Rain Bay, but that defense was god awful. They couldn't stop a nosebleed. The quarterback had a perfect quarterback rating. The rush, running back rushed 150 yards, three touchdowns.

They, they were out skiing. They were outplayed. The defense has to be better, but it also has to be a mindset. I said earlier, they're, they're great players and that includes Dak. That includes C.D. Lamb. That includes Michael Parson, who has one career playoff sack. They have to find a way for the best players to play the best football when it matters most. And that's in the playoffs.

And that's one thing they haven't been able to do. All right. Clarence, great seeing you, man. Great talking to you. I look forward to you in town for the next week or so, right? Yes, I will be another week or so. Okay. You know what's happening that Sunday, right? I got you. I come back from, we go to, we go to Vegas for the Raiders game and I'll be back on Sunday.

The Cowboys played the Raiders in the second preseason game in Vegas on Saturday. I'll be back Sunday and I'll be at your party. Oh yeah. It was birthday week for Mike Hill. Yeah. You know how we do it too. It's going to have fun, bro. We're going to do it right.

As always, Clarence E Hill Jr., Dallas Cowboys, be right before the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, hanging out with us here on the Rich Yeah. Chill. Yeah. It's that time, boy. The Cowboys. Like, um, it's so much going on. How are they going to sign all three?

Like it's, it's CD is one thing, right? He's going to, he deserves his money. Y receivers coming up. You got to pay Dak Prescott, man.

I don't, look, I know people say we can get somebody in the, like, it's not guaranteed. Remember that was a fourth round pick, right? That wasn't thought to be the future of the Cowboys probably at the time. They were thrust into action because Tony Romo got hurt in the preseason.

That's what I'm saying. Tony Romo was the future of that team. Dak Prescott got, and it's just like Tom Brady or six round. Sometimes you, you, you get it right, right?

It just works out for you. Dak Prescott wasn't supposed to be the savior of the team. Like you got six quarterbacks drafted in the first round this year. They're expected to be the saviors of those franchises, right? A third of them probably will work out. Maybe a third. History tells us at least half will be busts. Busts?

Not, not, not. I'm not talking about like three of them being all pros. I'm talking about two, maybe, you know, a pro bowlers, maybe one and all pro.

And then the rest you may not hear from in four years. Backups and backup quarterbacks, like, oh yeah, he was a, wow, wow. Yep. If you guys remember in 2016, the, the report was the Cowboys were looking at the quarterback Paxton Lynch. Yep.

That was the word that that was the guy. He's played five total games in the NFL. That's what I'm saying.

So like, so going out there and this is a proven commodity. That's what I understand about the NFL. If you got a franchise quarterback, I don't care if he's great. He's a franchise quarterback. You stick with your franchise quarterback and you build around him. It's not Dak Prescott's fault that they lost against Green Bay in the playoffs last year.

It wasn't his fault. Like Chill just talked about that defense just didn't step up when it needed to. They got run all, literally run all over by the Green Bay Packers. Aaron Jones ran the whole way to Minnesota.

All the way to Minnesota. I mean, like it was, it was a disaster. So that wasn't Dak's fault. I understand when you're the quarterback, everything gets put on.

Everything's put on you. I've covered the team. I'm Quincy Carter back in the day. I'm even Troy early on in his career, you know, go on. You know, Tony Romo went through the same thing. Can Tony Romo get the job done in the playoffs? I think Tony Romo won what, one playoff game or whatnot?

I think that was it. Not many. People remember the best memory of Tony Romo in the playoff game was when he was fumbling against Seattle, holding a snap. I mean, like being the Dallas Cowboys quarterback, there is, I don't think there's a position in all the sports trying to think that comes with as much scrutiny. Tony Romo, two and four in the playoffs, two and four, two and four in the playoffs as being the quarterback for the Dallas Cowboys.

Dak Prescott is one of the top 10 quarterbacks in the NFL. But if you're winning, it's not. Oh, if you're winning, but who has it? No one hasn't won since Trey Aikman.

Yeah, you got to win. And then once again, Trey Aikman early on in his career. And then Troy had great weapons around him. Now, Troy, I love Troy.

Troy's my colleague over the Fox. Great guy. And well, he was over there. I forgot. He's not. Well, I can talk about him now.

He's not a colleague anymore. But Troy, he had, he had two of the best weapons of all time with him, with Michael Irvin and Emmitt Smith and a great offensive line. Great, great offensive line. I don't think Trey ever threw for 4,000 yards in a season.

No, no, no. I mean, they were running the football a little bit more back then, but still 4,000 yards was attainable. He didn't have to, he had to go at running back. He had to go to running back all time, leading rusher at running back. He had Michael Irvin, a playmaker. It's like, come on. Yeah.

Nova check. You had a great tight end. I mean, like Dallas that back in the day, that's and then the defense was underrated too. With what's in those guys, man, like Charles Haley. Three Super Bowls. They did what they were supposed to do.

They did what they were supposed to do. So when it comes down and people criticize that present, man, please let Dak Prescott walk in the off season. As a Giants fan, as a, I don't know if they will have the money to sign them, but as a Giants fan, please let him walk. I would, I would, I would take Dak Prescott in a second.

We talked about this a few weeks ago, Mike. Everyone always says the social media, Dak stinks, right? But so many teams have tweeted us and said, yeah, I'll take him on my squad. Well, if he stinks, why would you take him? It's just because he's the cowboy quarterback.

People feel a certain type of way. The most expensive backup ever. I'm going to talk about Daniel Jones in a second, but coming up next, once again, we're talking about the rookie quarterbacks that aren't guaranteed.

I'm going to give you my one guarantee when it comes to the NFL rookie quarterbacks coming up next, right here on Rich Isaac show. Hey everybody, this just in it's summertime. It's time to go and do all those summer things like going to a baseball game during the summer. I'm about to do exactly that. And I know exactly what to do.

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Oh my God, man. First of all, you got to go back and think about like we were one in 15. We're three and 13, one in 15. When you're three and 13 and one in 15 Cleveland Browns, I know you don't think there's any chance that you will ever lay a home or something like this.

So to go from those days to coming in 92 and winning that super bowl and actually somebody handing you that trophy, the most incredible thing, most incredible feeling in the world. Did you ever step in when you heard that Jimmy and Jerry were not doing well, or you just, your station wasn't that life at that point in time? I didn't think anything would happen, Rich. I really didn't.

I was like, are you joking? You know how hard it is to win super bowls and you have a formula that's working and Jerry Jones, I'm telling you, that's the one thing I'll never forget Jerry Jones telling me that when I was negotiating with him and I was saying, you know, I'll go to Cincinnati. It was just, I'm just talking, trying to get my money's up. I said, I'll go to Cincinnati.

You get Carl Pickens over here and let's see what happens. And Jerry said to me, Jerry said, Michael, you know, when I see you, I see Michael Irvin and the Dallas Cowboys. He said, I kind of see it like Magic Johnson in the Lakers. He said, what is Magic without the Lakers and what are the Lakers without the Magic? He said, you guys, they belong together just like you and the Cowboys. He said, Michael, the best way I can tell you, if a bomb hit Valley Ridge today, that's where we practiced and blew everything up, everybody, everything.

When the smoke clears, baby, me and you, we going to still be here. So we might as well work this deal out right now. That's when he said to you, I promise y'all, this dude is a fool. This dude is a fool. He had me laughing as he was telling me no about my money. That's why you're in the Hall of Fame together. Got a lot of Cowboys talking about their contracts.

Even back in the day, Michael Irvin, show me the money. Have you, have you seen that? I don't understand.

I don't understand. Show me the money. No, give me my money.

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Yeah. And it's like three of them. Then it's two of them you applaud for and the last one don't get it.

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Last minute tickets, lowest price guaranteed. Love that. All right. Um, guaranteed Michael Pennix jr. Let's hear it will be the best quarterback selected in the 20, 24 NFL draft when it's all said and done. I'm with you, Mike. Make the case. Make the case.

Make the case because he's accurate. He's a winner. Everyone who was at India, if you can win in Indiana in college, right? If you can win in Indiana in college, you got something special. He was something special at Washington.

I know everybody talks about the injuries. If it wasn't for the injuries of Michael Pennix, we'd be talking the same type of hype or type of talk that we were talking about with Kayla Williams. Michael Pennix was my, I get a Heisman vote. He was my Heisman trophy. Uh, I voted him number one, okay.

Uh, over Daniels because of the season that they had overall, nothing against Jayden Daniels, love Jay and Dan's. But, uh, Michael Pennix jr. Was my husband like, and the fact that he went to the Falcons and the fact that once again, we was talking about how good it could be to actually learn and just sit back. We know Kirk Cousins is going to be starting quarterback for the Atlanta Falcons, right? We know that because he's coming, he just gave him a hundred million dollars. So he's going to be able to sit back and watch. And I know Michael Pennix jr. Is a little bit older, but he's not, he's not ancient.

You know what I mean? He's not 30 years old. So he's got time. So he can still have a good 10, 12 year, good career somewhere.

So even if he doesn't play for a year, year and a half or whatever, and get spot duty, he's going to learn. Guess who else sat for a couple of years before he actually got his chance and Rogers, Tom Brady, Tom Brady. I mean, well, the expectations wasn't high on Tom Brady. Aaron Rogers was, the expectations were high on Tom. Aaron Rogers is basically the same situation. Brett Favre was a quarterback. And then Aaron Rogers comes in as a late first round pick, but he was going to be the heir apparent. Same thing with Kirk Cousins. It's not like Kirk Cousins is a future hall of Famer right now. I love Kirk Cousins, don't get me wrong.

Great guy. Once again, last year on this show, I said he was going to be an MVP candidate, which he was before he got injured. You know, he was having a great season, Achilles. It's going to be tough coming back from the Achilles. I've had two Achilles surgeries. It was hard for me to get out of bed. He's got to play quarterback in the NFL.

All right. And playing down there with the Atlanta Falcons, the expectations are going to be a little bit high. I know they got Rahim down there as the head coach or whatever, but there was a reason why they drafted this kid top 10 overall, when they already know.

They see what I saw at the University of Washington. And I know it's not always translatable when it comes from college into the NFL, but for this kid, this attitude, his poise, his accuracy, that arm, the zip that he has, put him in the right situation. In years to come with Bijan Robinson, who's going to be a, I mean, Bijan, Bijan's going, he's going to be a Pro Bowler this year. He's definitely going to be a Pro Bowler this year. That weapon, and you give them a good offensive line, you get Michael Penix time. Really, Michael doesn't need as much time. Michael Penix is not a runner, but he knows how to avoid pressure. So I love Caleb. I think both Knicks is going to have a phenomenal career.

Jaden Daniels, depending on what they have around him, he's going to have a phenomenal career as well. But when it's all said and done, I guarantee you Michael Penix Jr. will be the best quarterback drafted in 2024 overall, when their careers are said and done. Mark it, guarantee it. Come back on this show in 10 years. Time stamping this. Time stamp it. Time stamp it. All right. Coming up top of the hour, we got more to talk about. We still got my man, Steve Trevino, great comedian coming up a little bit later in the 11 o'clock hour. This is Mike Hill. Stick around. Yeah.

Guys, what'd you think? Think about that. Michael Penix Jr. It's bold since we're probably not going to see him play a lot this year, barring an injury to Kirk. I think it's easy to just say, Caleb Williams is going to have the best career to these guys. Number one pick. He's set up in the great spot to succeed right away as a rookie.

He already saw some flashes. Caleb doing Caleb things on Saturday against Buffalo, had a great scramble, had a great throw on the run. You look at Bo Nix, he's got a great coach with him.

We're probably not going to see a lot of Drake May this year. So it's going to be tough to kind of evaluate him moving forward. So my Daniels is going to play right away. I think he's going to have a lot of great moments and a lot of like, that was a rookie throw right there.

Rookie decision. Right. So my rookie season, I think Caleb and, you know, like you said, Jaden, those guys, they're going to get big numbers. I'm talking about overall when it's all said and done. I'm talking about when we look back at this draft class 15 years from now. Well, I'm saying Michael Penix.

Huh? I like making a bold prediction like that with Penix, had a great throw over the weekend as well. Michael Penix can throw. He's the best throw of the football of anybody. Like we've said before, that NFL Films ball, TJ, where if you zoom in, it's a perfect tight spiral.

And then you zoom out the slow-mo. I'm with you. I don't see any reason to not think that Michael Penix is going to be an awesome pro when he finally gets a chance to be the number one guy. When he finally gets the chance.

Michael Penix Jr. I said it. I said it. I'm a key. I'm a stand by. Is he with Atlanta? Is he with Atlanta his whole career? I think so. Yeah. Yeah, he is coming up. The great Steve Trevino is going to join as a plenty comedian, man. We'll talk about him and maybe give me some marital advice. The extent that I have, I've got in trouble. The Sean Ryan Show on YouTube or wherever you listen.