Chase Daniel: Caleb Williams Has A Wealth Of Talent With The Bears

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Find out how to bring your ideas to life at dell.com slash welcome to now. The Rich Eisen Show with guest host Tom Pelissero. Earlier on the show, NFL Network reporter Mike Garofalo. Still to come, NBA writer for the athletic Mike Borkanov, NFL Network analyst Chase Daniel, comedian Tom Papa. And now, sitting in for Rich, it's Tom Pelissero. Welcome back to the Rich Eisen List Show.

Tom Pelissero in day two here. I love how we finished the last hour with you asking with three seconds left on the clock whether I would take the over or the under on the Chargers eight and a half. I didn't say if you would take it. You said eight and a half. And then you go like this, you go, I go Chargers win total eight and a half. What would you do? And then I told you, I can't do that.

No, I don't want to get you in trouble. But then you proceeded to spend the entire break asking me over unders on other teams. What I should have said to the Chargers eight and a half over under, and this is not my advice on the subject. What I should have said was if they go under, it will be pandemonium. Brandon Staley went nine and eight, 10 and seven, and people wanted him fired.

Repeatedly, over and over. If Jim Harbaugh making that much more money coming in with that much more hype, having the control of so much within the organization. If they go under eight and a half, the fire everyone will be back. I think that Jim Harbaugh with his track record would get a grace period here. But the standard is not, hey, let's let's just be a little better than last year.

The standard is we're competing right now to knock off Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs in the AFC West. Do we know what Harbaugh's contract is? It's a lot.

It's up there. Not Sean Payton, but a little lower, I think. Listen, there's complicated calculations because not everything is just pure salary, pure dollars on these contracts. The top guys are all depending how you break down their contracts in like the 16 to 20 million dollar range.

He's in there depending how you look at his contract. We'll get back to NFL Talk. Chase Daniel going to join the show in a little bit here. Also have Tom Papa, comedian, going to be in studio right here about an hour from now. But right now I want to turn the attention back to the NBA, bringing our next guest. He's a national NBA reporter for The Athletic, Mike Vorkanov. Kind enough to give us a few minutes here, Mike.

I'm going to start you out with a simple question. Tyrese Maxey, who is that and how stunned should we be about what he just did last night to keep the Sixers alive? I am fully still stunned from what he did last night, you know, erasing a six-point deficit with 28.2 seconds to go, seven points in 17 seconds. He's pretty good. He was pretty good before that. He was an All-Star this year, right?

He's like the perfect sidekick for Joel Embiid. But what he did at MSG was just having a mini Reggie Miller moment for him. And that's how you get yourself on the national stage. And that's it.

I mean, he introduced himself to the country in epic type of a fashion. The rare NBA playoff game that actually started and ended at a time when people on the East Coast are awake, which I thought was a nice, a nice hit. I was sitting in Detroit on day two of the NFL draft, or maybe it was day one, whatever it was. And the Timberwolves were playing that night against the Suns, and they're literally wrapping up the draft. It's like the final couple of picks and the game is not tipped off yet in Phoenix.

It's, yeah, I'm not saying I'm the expert on this, but if I'm the commissioner, I'm just, I'm trying to get it a little bit, you know, a few more eyeballs that are not completely, completely asleep here. But it's been a great playoff so far, Mike. No longer involving LeBron James and the Lakers. A lot of questions about his future. He certainly did nothing to dismiss the idea that maybe that's the last time we've seen LeBron in Lakers uniform based on what you know, the people you talk to, your sense around it. Where do things go for from here for the Lakers and LeBron? I think this whole LeBron thing every offseason for the last few years kind of goes through in stages, right? You have the cryptic period where he's a little playing coy with everyone about what he'll do the next year, the year after that. It's also partly, I think, part of a leverage that he has, right, which is to try to get the Lakers to do something to improve the roster.

And we've seen this, I think, for the last three off-seasons now since the Lakers won the title in 2020. I would be surprised, I think, if he's not back with the Lakers next year. He's got a player option for the 24-25 season. He can make a lot of money.

They can offer him the max, I believe. He's got a great situation. Obviously, L.A. is where he's stationed now with his family and everything like that. And it remains a place that he has seemingly wanted to be for a while. But with LeBron, you can never really count anything out. He's always got a chessboard in his head that only he can see.

But I think it'll be an interesting one for the next few weeks, if not two months or so, where he kind of plays this out and hints publicly from time to time. If he does decide to come back at age 40 and play another season, and if it's not with the Lakers, Mike, what is a landing spot, whether you know, you've talked to people, or whether it's just in your head? What makes sense for where LeBron would go?

Oh, man. It's going to be a small universe of teams. It has to be a franchise that can support the LeBron James extended multiverse, basically. He is now a business all unto himself.

And this is just me talking off the top of my head, just conjecture. You know, there's always been ties with him in the Knicks. I don't know if he actually fits into their timeline anymore, right? They've got things going pretty well. And I don't know if they need to drop in a 40-year-old LeBron James into that and mess with their deal. And the Philadelphia 76ers are going to have, I think, the second most cap space in the NBA this offseason or prime to have it, depending on what they do with some contracts. And he would be a great fit there. And that would be a great win now move for them because their window is right now with Joel Embiid about to turn 30. So those are two teams that kind of jump out to me if you're thinking about potential landing spots. But again, you're talking about LeBron James. He'd have to move across the country, go back to the East Coast.

There's all these qualifiers that you add along to it as you're playing this kind of what-if game. Second straight day. Guests on the show has connected LeBron to the Sixers. Mike Vorkanov, that's what's going to go viral. We're going to tweet it out. Mike says he's going to the Sixers.

One other James family question for you here, Mike. I know one of the things that's been talked about is would LeBron want to play with Bronny, who is currently evaluating whether or not he's going to go into the draft, which that whole process of the putting your name in, then you can take your name out, and the draft happens like right after the finals and then your free agency. As somebody who covers the NFL for a living, that all just blows my mind about how that timeline plays out. But I'm looking up Bronny James stats, and I know he had the heart condition. He missed time, but this is a guy who averaged 4.8 points, 2.8 rebounds, and 2.1 assists. When you talk to NBA people, scouts, GMs, what type of prospect is this? Is this a lottery pick, a very high pick? Is this somebody who is going to get the LeBron James bump in some way if it's the Lakers who are drafted? What type of prospect is Bronny James? The timeline is definitely compressed. As you mentioned, it's a lot different than the NFL.

You can kind of leave your head spinning sometimes. He's more of a role player type. I think his calling card right now is his defense, his three-point shooting. He's someone that can fit in as an ancillary player on a good team.

So maybe the numbers, the stats that he had at USC are the best indicator of how good he was. His defense is pretty good for a prospect that age. He has to decide whether he goes back to college or whether he goes to the NBA and tries to make the leap. The transfer portal now, this whole transfer portal slash entering the NBA draft dance, it's a bit of kabuki theater from time to time. Sometimes guys are in there because they want to get more money in NIL from teams. Sometimes they're earnestly trying the NBA draft to see where they might go. I think LeBron James, for Bronny Jr., I don't think it's a bigger concern in terms of what his NIL earnings might be. But I think it's more of a chance to see and feel out where he might go in the draft. And obviously, LeBron James is watching that closely as a parent and also as a member of the Lakers for right now, because he's talking in the past about wanting to play with his son, playing with him late in his career. And we know the end of his career is coming. So could it be this draft? It could be the Lakers that kind of make that happen.

And wouldn't that be an enticement for him to stay in L.A. too? Mike Vorkanov is our guest, covers the NBA for the Athletic Mavs Clippers tonight, 10 p.m. Eastern start. There you go. Once again, that series knotted up. It's been feisty at times. When you when you look at this series of where things go, who in your mind has the edge or what does it take for one of these teams to close this thing out?

This to me is just the most confusing series, just because those two teams are close, so close together. I don't know who's going to be healthy and when. Right. We have that now Kawhi Leonard. Injuries have always been the problem for the Clippers in the past. They're a problem for them again now. And sometimes it seems like these playoffs, they're actually a little bit better with Kawhi without Kawhi, because when he has played, he's been a little hampered by the injuries.

Right. It seems like it's held him back a little bit. And, you know, if I had to make a prediction for the rest of the series, I think it'll be Dallas because they have Luca Dontic. So they have the best player in this year. Paul George is really good. James Harden is still showing some classic signs of what he can do.

And so I truly I cannot handicap this one. I think it's going to be entertaining as all hell. And please don't make me bet on it is my basic prediction for it. Celtics heat.

There's a significant injury in that one too. Porzingis leaving that game with a calf strain the other night. Game five tonight. Celtics can close it out.

They're up 3-1. If the Celtics are able to close it out with one of their star players or not, who else in the East, if anybody, can challenge them? Because on paper, you would think the Heat might be as equipped as anybody to match up and be able to play with these guys. I think the Knicks would give them a pretty good run, especially if Porzingis is not back in time for the Easter Conference Finals, right? They're going to have the Celtics are going to have the Magic or the Cavs in round two.

I think that's a pretty good matchup for them either way that plays out. But I think the winner of the other bracket, you know, the Knicks or the Sixers, whether they get out of this series between them, will play probably the Pacers who are up 3-2 right now in their series. And I think the Knicks can give the Celtics trouble if they don't have Kristaps Porzingis. We've seen them do it in regular seasons before and they're the type of team that can just, you know, whale another team in a playoff series just because of how physical they are and how much you have to adjust to their physicality and their style of play in a series. And if the Sixers come back, they still have Joel Embiid and they still have Tyrese Maxey and that top two is as deadly as it gets.

And if the Celtics don't have Porzingis to help on the interior and to help on Porzingis and protect the rim, then that becomes an issue for them even if they have taken care of the 76ers in the past few years in the playoffs. So that series could be over tonight. Right now we've only got one second round series totally locked in. It's T-Wolves and Nuggets.

That tips off on Saturday. I just think this is such a fascinating series because you've got the perennial MVP candidate in Denver's lineup. You've got this amazing collection of young players and an older Rudy Gobert in Minnesota that seem to have all the momentum going.

It's the classic. One team has been there and done it. The other team definitely has not. The Timberwolves, but, you know, they sweep the Suns, a very experienced team in four games in round one here. In your mind, what do the Timberwolves have to do to continue this magical run? And I say magical in part because I live in Minneapolis and I haven't seen them win a playoff series in 20 years. Well, I think the easy answer might be like try to solve the Nikola Jokic riddle.

But I don't know if that's a solvable one. He's the best player in the NBA right now. And no one has figured out a way to stop him, whether by making him a passer or score.

We've seen a kind of a team try to defend him with every iteration and just fail over the last two years. I think basically it comes down to having Anthony Edwards play like the second best player in the NBA. Like, that's the only way I think that they can beat Denver is if Edwards rises to that occasion. And maybe Rudy Gobert and Karl-Anthony Towns give Jokic enough trouble and slow him a little bit down where they can soar past them. To me, that like that's what's going to make the series so great is you're going to see peak Jokic. And I assume you'll see peak Anthony Edwards, who does not care how much playoff experience he has. He does not care who he's playing. He does not care that Denver is the reigning champion. Like, he's going to go out there and do his thing. I think this might be the best series of the playoffs just because of who's involved. Last thing for you, Mike.

Appreciate your time today. Free agency right around the corner. Drats right around the corner. We'll talk so much about LeBron. What else interests you in terms of the free agent process, trades, everything else? What are the headline items as you're looking out here over the next couple of months in the NBA? Well, to me, and this is getting a little bit wonky, but, you know, the NBA has the new CBA that they instituted this past summer. The second apron has been the big talking point around the league. Obviously, you have these very strong penalties that hit teams that are above that second apron luxury tax level. And, you know, make them make it hard for them to trades, freeze their first round pick seven years out. All the all this stuff that scares owners and is supposed to scare fans and executives.

And I'm curious to see whether the teams that are approaching that second apron or over that second apron really care or they ignore it. Because if there's a big disarmament across the NBA, if teams are going to start reacting and acting in fear of that second apron, we could see a lot of movement amongst the high spending teams in the league. We could see them lose top free agents. We can see them trade away big contracts.

And if that happens, what are the trickle down effect of that going to be like? Are we going to have a mass movement of star and players and very big contracts across the league like we haven't seen in a long time? I don't know how teams are going to approach that. I think there's disagreement from maybe executive to executive on what the best approach is.

And I don't know what the answer is, but that to me is what I'm looking for. Is to see like, how are teams going to approach the second apron problem and what kind of chaos will that wreck across the league this offseason? A lot of chaos to come, Mike, over the next few months here. Best of luck with all that, man. We really appreciate the time.

Yeah, thanks for making me neurotic about my schedule. That's Mike Vorkanov. He'll be a busy man here over the next few months. You can read him at The Athletic. Follow him on social media. At Mike Vorkanov.

He's confirming what I said. Tim Wolf's Nuggets. That's the series of round two. I don't want to say it's a homer thing for me just because I live in Minnesota, but there is something very fun to watch. I'm not, but I just find it fun to watch this team. I mean, if they were a boring style of basketball, which, let's be honest, there have been plenty of those times where the Timberwolves have been a very boring franchise over the last 20 years here.

That would be different. There's teams that aren't exciting. The Wolves are legitimately exciting to watch. You've got some of the bright young stars in the game.

I've said it before. I understand everybody says he's the best player in basketball. I don't know that he's the face of the league just because his style is very much. He's the best old man at the Y player of all time. Yeah, he can't jump over a phone book. He plays a style from the 1960s and he's really, really good at it here.

But in come the high-flying Timberwolves where Anthony Edwards is throwing down poster dunks over Kevin Durant. The seal games here will be a lot of fun. Tips off on Saturday. Let's get back to the NFL after this. My guy Chase Daniel, former NFL quarterback, NFL network analyst. Nobody breaks down QBs like Chase.

He's going to do that with us next on the Rich Eisen Show. Hey, folks, it's time for the NFL Draft, which means for me, I need a good night's sleep because if I don't have one, just not myself. You know the deal. You know exactly how important it is to have quality sleep.

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Power dot com slash awards only at a sleep number store or sleep number dot com. Afford Anything talks about how to avoid common pitfalls, how to refine your mental models and how to think about how to think. Paula, while certainly you can mess up on a million dollars a year, it is far less likely than it is on thirty thousand dollars a year. I would meet wonderful people that were struggling with a budget that was super tight.

It was one hundred percent. You need to make more money, make smarter choices and build a better life. Afford anything wherever you listen. Tom Brady on a boat. Yeah. And the one and it's on his cheat day with no kids.

One day where he's drinking to order. OK. All right. OK. Number one, number three on this list. Who wouldn't want to go say happy birthday to Joe Burrow?

Oh, yeah. Look at Joe. OK. Come on now. Joe Burrows on her birthday party. I'm going. And everybody on the RSVP list is going to get a number two quarterback birthday party.

I would want to attend is Jimmy Garoppolo's birthday. Yes. You bet. Yeah.

How is that not number one? Tom's going to be there and you just I mean, I will just I'll stand in the corner and look and it'll be creepy. Not going to lie.

I'm not going to lie. It'll be creepy. There'll be some birds. It'll be creepy. But Jimmy too far. Here's the thing. I wouldn't be able to go to Jimmy Garoppolo's birthday party because Susie would say, I'm going. You're home. OK.

The pigeons will be clucking. Number one atop my power rankings list. I don't know about birthday parties. I would like to attend an NFL quarterback birthday party. Hands down. Number one, Gardner Minshew. It's not just starting quarterbacks.

I said NFL quarterback. Number one, Gardner Minshew. Welcome back to the Rich Eisen Show radio network. I am sitting at the Rich Eisen Show desk furnace by Granger with supplies and solutions for every industry. Granger has the right product for you.

Call click Granger dot com or just stop by. Get back to the NFL in this segment NFL draft now a little less than a week behind us in terms of round one here. We've talked a lot about the surprises in round one, namely Michael Pennix. We've talked about the quarterback fits. I want to bring on somebody who would do way more in terms of actually breaking down the scheme and what these offenses are going to look like. Nobody better than my friend Chase Daniel, longtime NFL quarterback, now NFL network analyst Chase. Appreciate you being here. Let's get into this here.

So we talked, I mean, for months, right? Caleb Williams to the Bears. Everyone in the world knew that's what was going to happen. They've built this thing up over time going back to you bring in Shane Waldron as the OC. You signed DeAndre Swift. You trade for Keenen Allen. Now you bring in Roma Dunze to the mix as well. When it boils down to it, we know what the place that was for Caleb at USC. What is this Bears offense going to look like?

Well, it's going to look completely different than probably most Shane Waldron style offenses that he ran with the Rams and the Seahawks because they do have those weapons. And I know you didn't mention DJ Moore and DJ Moore, quite honestly, might be the number one of all those guys. I love what they did adding Roma Dunze, Keenen Allen. I played with Keenen Allen for two years.

I know he's getting up in age. There's nobody better in the slot. Like you said, DeAndre Swift, everyone in that aspect. Cole Kamet, Gerald Everett.

It's going to be very multiple. I think Shane Waldron is going to morph this offense into what Caleb Williams does well. And what does Caleb Williams do?

Well, have you ever watched a guy by the name of Patrick Mahomes play? If one and two is not open, he's going to take off. They're going to work scramble drill quite a bit. They're going to be in a lot of shotgun alignments.

They're going to do some RPOs. You know, when you actually go back and watch the 2022 USC film with Caleb Williams, you see a guy, in my opinion, that is thriving in the offense, didn't throw a lot of interceptions, didn't take a lot of sacks because he had talent around him. When you go to last year's USC offense, I'm watching it as an NFL.

And I'm looking and I'm saying, what in the world is going on? Because it's really hard to go in and understand the reads and the concepts. And I think that's what Shane Waldron and Co. were going to be able to get out of Caleb, is they have to make sure that he has an answer for every problem and get away from that hero ball type stuff he had to play last year because his offensive line was so poor. Do you think, as somebody who's been a quarterback in the league, you've seen plenty of young guys come in. I want to see, can you coach that out of them?

Because the escape artist play style is a positive. I mean, it's his superpower on the field, but it's also something that I know from talking to people, there were times where the USC coaches would get frustrated because so much was happening outside the structure of the offense. Can you rein in a guy like that without cluttering his mind and slowing him down and taking away what he does best? You're going to have to.

I mean, quite honestly, because if you don't, then he's going to be in a lot of trouble. And look, at the NFL level, everyone is good. They were playing some tape in 2023 and some guys in 2023 that I'm watching like, you are so much better than this guy. And look, he's not going to have that in the NFL.

And that division in the NFC North is, quite frankly, it's stacked. And I'm just looking forward to him seeing the progression on his ceiling and what it can be, because he has to be sure to go out there and understand that, hey, a throwaway is not a bad play. Quick game, throwing a little stick route, a six yard stick route to a tight end. It's not a bad play. A punt is not a bad play. And I think that's what you saw from him last year is because the lack of talent surrounding him at USC was, quite honestly, not as great as it should have been with Lincoln Riley as the head coach.

He has a wealth of talent with the Bears. I think that's what you need to coach. If I'm the quarterback coach, if I'm Shane Waldron, that's what I'm coaching. Hey, just take what's there. Do your thing in the pocket, because you don't want to take the stinger away.

But you also have to understand that a throwaway and a punt in the NFL, it's not a bad play. All right, let's go to number two, the commanders. There was talk very early on. They did get calls about moving. It became apparent they were not moving, but there was real discussion, whether it was going to be Drake May, maybe J.J. McCarthy or Jayden Daniels. I got the sense, Chase, in talking to all the coaches, the scouts, the GMs I do, that people saw Cliff Kingsbury, what he's done historically, and really the guy who fit that was Jayden Daniels. This is not, though, Kyler Murray. They're not carbon copies of one another.

They can do some of the same things. When you think about what this offense is going to look like with Jayden Daniels, what does he do well, and what are they going to have him do in Washington? Well, I love Jayden Daniels. In my opinion, he was right up there in my quarterback rankings with Caleb Williams, because what he does so well is he goes through progressions at a pace that I really have not seen an NFL quarterback coming out of college do in a really long time.

And what does that mean? He understands how to get from the first to the second to the third. I've seen him, Tom, get through the fourth and fifth progressions in a college offense and throw touchdowns through the running back on a checkdown versus quarters coverage, where that's the only place to go with the ball. So he is a really bright mind, and I really do think his ceiling is higher than Kyler Murray in this offense, and that's why I love the fit, and that's why I think they were really sold on Jayden Daniels the entire time was because of Cliff Kingsbury. It's not a really hard offense to learn, although Jayden's really smart. It's very just, hey, here's a half field read, here's a half field read, here is a full field progression. It's very quarterback friendly, and obviously they're going to use his legs.

I think that's not being talked about enough. I watched a film the day before the NFL draft just to get a bearing on who he was as a player against Florida. He ran for 238 yards. It is really, really crazy to see that, and he really is, though, a combination of both a pocket passer and a runner.

I think that's what the commanders really liked about him. The only thing, Tom, he's got to gain some weight. He's got to get his weight up. He looked really fragile in college. He took some massive hits. If he's going to be running that much, you cannot have that happen in the NFL. That mashup that has been floating around on social media of Jayden Daniels taking hits set to the Looney Tunes theme is one of the funniest things that I saw the entire pre-draft process.

But it is true. He takes some absolutely hellacious hits. He was like $1.70 in his days at Arizona State.

He was up to like $1.90, I want to say, in the spring two years ago. So he has put on like 20 pounds. The question is, he's this narrow frame type of dude. If you keep doing that, regardless of how much weight you put on, if you take those types of hits at the NFL level, whether you're Anthony Richardson, who's 6'5 and 240, or Cam Newton, who's 6'5, eventually that stuff's going to add up on your body. Totally, and that's the biggest thing that NFL quarterbacks and NFL coaches and NFL trainers talk about.

The best ability is availability, and that's what he has to understand. Get down, know when the journey's over. It sounds cliché, and guess what? It is.

But it still withstands the test of time. You can't take hits and be able to play 17, shoot maybe 18 games like Roger Goodell said is coming. Drake May, who was talked about, I think at least in the conversation with Caleb Williams, if you go back a year ago, prior to the last year of college, ended up being the third guy. Jayden Daniels, to his credit, did everything, moved ahead of him. There were teams, though, that, like Drake, is the second one. And there were multiple teams that were willing to trade up for him, even though it sounds like coming from North Carolina, Chase, like other North Carolina quarterbacks, it's such a simplistic type of an offense. It's a big growth process he has to go through. So if you're in New England, and in all likelihood, let's be honest, you're probably thinking Jacoby Brissette is our week one starter. But how do you bring Drake May along?

How does he, accuracy-wise and otherwise, get better? Look, I think Drake May was great, and I know the Minnesota Vikings really liked him, really wanted him to go up and get them. It just didn't play out. New England wanted to stick and pick.

Obviously, you guys reported it. You guys did an amazing job, by the way, on NFL draft coverage, so thanks for that. And I just think with Drake, personally, I had him as my fifth-ranked quarterback, and not necessarily because of the talent, just because of the inexperience and the lack of weapons on offense. That offensive line at UNC was pretty poor.

It is a very simple offense. If you look at it and really break it down, really half the offense is him looking left or right and taking off down the middle of the field, which showed his athleticism. And he's a big country dude. When you meet him and when you talk to him and when you shake his hand, he sort of gives me Philip Rivers vibes, the country boy vibe, and also just size. He's the closest, really, to Justin Herbert that I've seen. I've played with Justin for two years. He's a big dude, and I think that's what the Patriots understand.

That's why they went out. They paid so much for Jacoby Brissett, because I do think I'm with you. I do think Jacoby Brissett is going to be the starter day one. In my opinion, the reason I had Drake's at fifth on my rankings, he needed a year or two, the Jordan Love plan, to really understand the innards of an NFL program, an NFL facility, just the way to work, everything like that. His potential is off the charts. You just have to really believe in him, which New England, taking him number three, they really do. Can he move like Justin Herbert?

There's not a lot of those really tall types of quarterbacks. I had one scout tell me, he'd seen the Justin Herbert comparisons in his head. I think he moves a little bit more like Brock Osweiler, where he's a tall pocket passer, but he's not as nimble and athletic as Justin. How much of what Justin does from a mobility perspective can this guy do?

For me, I think it's pretty much on par. When I was with Justin, he's a lot faster. He's a very long strider. Obviously, he's a tall dude. But with Drake, I do think he's not as shifty.

I do think straight-line speed is fast. If he gets going, you can watch some of his highlights. Everyone saw the highlight against Pittsburgh, where he's up and to the left, and he threw it left-handed, outside of the pocket. That's what he has. He has that playmaking ability in him. He just has to learn how to read an NFL defense, has to learn to go through progressions.

That's not a slide on him. He just is very inexperienced and started a ton of games. Everyone obviously knows the UNC quarterback pedigree isn't great right now, so hopefully he's the mold that can fix it. He is definitely a different guy than Sam Howell.

Sam Howell is one of the most quiet, introverted people. That hurt him, honestly, in the pre-draft process. He slides to the fifth round in part because people were like, you need a little bit more juice. Drake is like, you talk to coaches who met with him and they're like, whoa, he came in with a lot of energy.

He wants to tell you every piece of tape he's ever watched here. Not in a bad way, but he's a little bit more high-strung. He's one of the youngest guys in this draft as well. It'll be fascinating to see how that one plays out. All right, let's get to another guy who, I guess we're going to say, is not going to play anytime soon, but when the Falcons, after paying Kirk Cousins a hundred million guaranteed, take Michael Penix at number eight.

Honestly, Chase, I don't know exactly how this plays out. I think we have to be ready for every different scenario, including one where at some point over the next calendar year here, we're talking about his Kirk Cousins getting traded in year two of that massive contract. Michael Penix was, I think, a polarizing guy talking to coaches and scouts. There were coaches who really liked him. I thought people had him number two. I thought people had him number seven behind Spencer Rattler, and a big part of that was he just doesn't move very much. He's a strict pocket passer. It's got to be clean for him. With him in that Zach Robinson offense that's coming from the Rams here, and knowing kind of the unique development scenario he's in, what do you foresee with Michael Penix in Atlanta?

Well, I think he's going to have to sit and learn. I had him ranked as the three or four guy. There was a tie, in my opinion, with JJ McCarthy, who we'll get to next. But with Michael Penix, when we did NFL Total Access, the postgame show, the first day of the draft, obviously that was the big storyline. I sort of disagreed with it at the time, because you literally paid your guy $100 million guaranteed, and it's the honeymoon phase. I loved your quote that you said about that, which was great.

It went viral. It's true, though. You're cheating on your wife in the honeymoon phase, and I think Kirk didn't really love it. I feel like Kirk really didn't appreciate that they called him on the clock, didn't even give him a heads up. But when Atlanta understood that they could get a guy like this, when you just truly break down the film, it is mesmerizing, because he, in my opinion, has the strongest arm in the draft. You said he can't move well. He really only ran for like 13 yards, really 13 yards last year, but he ran a 4.40. They just wrapped him in bubble wrap because of the knee injuries, but he hasn't had really any injuries for two years.

That was back in Indiana. So I do like the fit here, and the Zach Robinson fit is interesting, because they are going to run that under center play action, jet sweep motion. I played with Zach Robinson in a lot of different camps growing up through high school and college. We played him at OSU.

He is a really, really smart man. I'm excited that Raheem Morris brought him in. But, yeah, the Michael Pinnock situation, I wouldn't be surprised if he plays sooner rather than later. Not saying this year, I think this is a sit-and-wait year, but in reality, the contract is you really guaranteed Kirk Cousins two years. Does he get two years?

I don't know. My concern, I keep seeing people saying, oh, Kirk Cousins, who cares about his feelings? It's not about feelings. He's got 100 million reasons to be fine with whatever.

This is about the environment that you're creating there. I mean, he's on stage hyping up the crowd at the draft party, and an hour later you're calling saying, hey, I know you just got here six weeks ago, but we're already drafting your replacement. Chase, you spent a long time in the NFL as a backup quarterback. I remember being at the game where you took over for, I believe it was Mitch Trubisky in Chicago, and the crowd at that point went wild when you're coming in the game. Of course, you're Chase Daniel, who wouldn't be excited about it, but you weren't even the number eight overall pick. When your guy, Zach Robinson, is a first-time play caller with a new quarterback, new weapons coming in, and he's just trying to get things up to speed here, nobody was going to be chanting for Taylor Heineke.

Nobody in the crowd was going to be going, we didn't put him in. Michael Penix? If this doesn't start fast, people will be chanting for Michael Penix, and there might be locker room questions.

There certainly will be immediate questions perpetually here. I have no question Kirk Hutton is even coming off the Achilles, is going to go there and play at a high level, just because that's what he's done throughout the course of his career. But you've changed everything around it, and you've just totally turned it from this is our guy, the new age, we're all in, but we've also got this other guy that we just used the number eight pick on. You're creating a distraction that quite honestly didn't need to be created. I think Michael Penix is worth the eighth pick.

I really do if you just look at his film. But like you said, it's going to be an interesting distraction within that locker room. And I've been in some situations where it's a little bit sticky. I think that going in, knowing the character of Michael Penix, knowing Kirk Cousins personally, it's just time to get to work. And knowing Zach, they're going to have a really good culture around it. But it does bring up the fact, not only from the fan situation, Tom, but also in that locker room, if Kirk goes out and isn't playing really well the first 10 games of the year, you've got this shiny new toy sitting on the bench that probably is talking to guys in the locker room and trying to get better and trying to learn, staying after practice throwing in Michael Penix and just showing the work ethic. That's a tricky situation for Rahim Morris in the first year of his new regime there, especially with a first-year play caller like you mentioned with Zach Robinson. JJ McCarthy ends up not going at number four or five, which is a trade-up. Does not go six to the Giants. The Vikings end up moving up one spot, taking him at number 10.

This is the one. There's a lot of good fits here, I think. Chase, especially Caleb Williams, going to Chicago makes total sense. Jayden with that offense. JJ McCarthy in Minnesota, if you want to talk about a team that, granted, they tried to trade up for Drake May, but they did really like JJ McCarthy.

And JJ McCarthy, in the process, really liked the Vikings. This, to me, seems like with the weaponry that he's got there, with Kevin O'Connell calling the plays, I couldn't think of a better situation. There's no doubt, and you could make the case, and I am going to make the case for the Vikings being the absolute best situation for any of the rookie quarterbacks because of Justin Jefferson, Jordan Addison, Aaron Jones, TJ Hogginson, Kevin O'Connell as the play caller.

That scheme is next level. He is going to be able to hit the ground running. Now, it is a difficult scheme and a difficult offense to pick up, and obviously they're saying, hey, he's going to compete with Sam Darnold.

I do think right now that the best of any situation other than Caleb Williams and Jay Daniels to play week one, it is JJ McCarthy. I know they paid Sam Darnold $10 million, but when you look at JJ and you break down his film, it was an interesting sort of breakdown scenario for me over the two months because when you look at the third down situations and you look at the passing yards and you look at the inexperience, really only played 1,600 snaps in college, which is really low. It's hard to understand what he can do at the next level.

Obviously the pro day was one of the best pro days that I have ever seen, and the pre-draft process was really good. He's a rah-rah leader type guy. But when you do the tape and you break it down, Michigan really didn't need him to win some games last year, and so he was sort of, I don't want to say wrapped in bubble wrap, but he was sort of held back a little bit from some of his potential. And I've been on record, and I'm going to say it again right here, is I just don't know in the NFL on third and 13 when you need to throw a dagger route versus man-to-man coverage with two types of zone pressures right at you and in your face, can you stand in the pocket? Can you deliver a big boy throw over the numbers accurately with a guy trailing with six inches of separation? I hadn't seen that out of him, so I think that's the biggest issue, not issue, but that's the biggest question mark with him, is can he do it? Can he actually learn the offense in training camp?

Can he get a head start with the weapons that he has? He's not going to be asked to do a lot if he is going to start, but it's the most intriguing prospect to me, I think. I love that you brought up the pro day because, I mean, I can think of very few occasions where when I talked to, and there were a ton of coaches and scouts there, because Michigan had like 80 guys in this draft, but everybody said, man, that was unbelievable for him to throw on air. I mean, one head coach said to me, he goes, I didn't know he had that type of horsepower.

So to watch him live, how the ball comes out of his hand, that definitely helped him. One more I want to get to here, Chase, we're talking to Chase Daniel, longtime NFL quarterback, now NFL network analyst, bow next to Denver. That one might have been of the, you know, outside of Caleb Williams, that might have been the most popular one where everyone I talked to in the league was like, oh yeah, bow next to Denver. Sean Payton's guy, coach's kid, 61 starts will do exactly what he tells him to do. When you think bow next in Sean Payton's offense, what do you see? Well, it's probably the only rookie quarterback of the group that could handle that Sean Payton offense. I was with Sean and Sean's offense for five years and another two years with offensive coordinator Joe Lombardi, so I know that offense inside and out.

It is very wordy, it is very difficult to pick up. They took the experience factor and I thought personally at the time it was a little bit of a reach to go 12, but when you have your guy out there for the future, and quite honestly for the present, if you look at the depth chart of the Broncos quarterback room, it makes all the sense in the world. It's sort of crazy that he's quarterback six in this draft, but he's taken 12 overall. Every other pick in the first 12 picks was a quarterback with 14 straight offensive players, so it just tells you a little bit of the depth of the offense.

He's extremely bright. He's a smart quarterback and talking with the Broncos and talking with some guys that I know very personally in that room, in that decision room. They just really love that he was a competitor, that he was really bright, that he was really good at underneath throws because a lot of that Sean Payton offense is, and it was hard to evaluate because when you look at Bo Nix, 30% of his throws at Oregon this past year were at or behind the line of scrimmage, and obviously you saw that quote. If you didn't, Sean Payton said, hey, let's go into our analytics department. Let's take all those throws out, and he was still the most accurate passer. He still had the highest yards per attempt, so he can air it out when needed. It's going to be fascinating to watch this in training camp.

If they can get him up to speed and dialed in to go in and start in a division with Justin Herbert and Patrick Mahomes, it's going to be difficult to see. Chase, phenomenal stuff, and before we let you go, I mentioned that I was at that game where the crowd at Soldier Field was chanting for you to take over for Mitch Trubisky and went wild. I believe we actually have a photo of me interviewing you on the field after the game. That look on my face right there was, man, Chase Daniel, the future of the Bears right there. That's a moment right there, huh?

Dude, young Tom right there, dude. Yeah, that was the Minnesota Vikings game. We had the throwback on.

Yeah, that was a fun game, man. Look at that, though. Look at you with the hair, no beard, just nice, cleanly shade. Look, I love that. Love that.

I have aged poorly. You look exactly the same. Chase, thanks a lot for the time, man. Appreciate it. Let's begin. All right, guys.

Appreciate you. That is Chase Daniel, longtime NFL quarterback, NFL network analyst. I remember that game vividly. Chase Daniel comes off the sideline. The whole crowd's been booing, and they go nuts because they're not watching Mitch Trubisky. That was the point at which it was like, this is going to be hard to come back from.

That was 2019 right there. Yeah. So Mitch was usually the most popular player on the team. Popular guy on the field, right? But it's not normally like a career backup.

That's what I keep saying. Like, this is not, you brought in another guy. You drafted a third-round quarterback. You drafted Spencer Rattler. You drafted Michael Pennix. So you've taken that inevitable undercurrent of, oh, we should just try somebody else to.

We need to try that guy right now. That's what's going to be the challenge for the Atlanta Falcons moving forward. If, in fact, Michael Pennix is as good as his fans in the league think that he can be, this may all work out. We're going to find out. A big final hour of the show coming up.

We got Tom Papa, comedian, actor, writer. He is going to be in studio with us right here. Looking forward to that. Coming up after this, I want to get into some comments that Deion Sanders and his son Chidur made on social media.

That's going to be a fun story in 2025. Stick around. We'll see you next time. You know what I mean? I'm happy with my head.

Zoom in on it. I'm happy with my head right now. I'm happy with life. My hats have been cutting down. They were up to five days a week now.

I'm at two days a week now. Because I'm feeling good about prime right now. I look at myself on social media. It's taken at least nine years off of my life. Nine years?

Yes. I'm looking like a young prime right now, man. I looked at a picture of me on my profile the other day. I didn't know if it was one of my sons or me.

That's the way I am right now. You know Suze. You know my wife. She's seeing you on the air. She's like, is that Deion?

I'm like, yeah, that's Deion. You know what she's really saying? It's almost like a guy. See, we can't do this. If your girl starts to pick up a little weight, you really can't say it. You're just like, hey, you want to work out today, baby? Not you, but we should work out. You can't say it.

Deion, yeah. And she's just waiting for you to jump in there. It's like double dutching. You're just sitting out there. And she has the ropes. And she's just doing the ropes.

And she just keeps looking on you like, come on, baby. Jump in there. Jump in there. Come on. Rich, you can do this, man. No, I know I can, but I mean. See, you got a lot to work with on the outsides. This is your expert opinion having, OK. See, you have a lot of donor hair.

They call it donor hair. Should I do it? Do it, Rich. Don't do it. Do it. See, don't do it. Rich, do it. You should do it.

All right. All the basketball playoffs talk on this show has got me really excited. I might have to go. Minnesota, Denver. Have to.

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Last minute tickets, lowest price guaranteed. Deion Sanders, never one to let the spotlight leave for too long, has had an interesting few days here. There was an article that came out in The Athletic from a former player who effectively said, Deion didn't even try to get to know me, told me to enter the transfer portal. He ended up doing so, goes to another school here. Well, both Deion and Chidor Sanders, his son, have weighed in in recent days on that story.

If we can bring up some of the socials here. First off here from The Athletic, Deion Sanders recommended Xavier Smith hit the transfer portal like many others. He didn't. Then during spring practice, Smith felt like more like an extra in the background of the reality show. Frustration set in before he eventually left for Austin Peay. Chidor Sanders, the quarterback on that team, and I believe Xavier Smith was a wide receiver, said, I don't even remember him, to be honest.

Bro had to be very mid at best. Deion, then jumping in here, it seems slightly unnecessary. Deion, folks don't hate you because they really don't know you. They admire you in a negative way. They realize they can't be you, think like you, talk like you, or walk in your shoes. That bothers them.

Always smile when you see them because that makes them admire you so much more in that negative way. I didn't like that pre-time KB waited against primetime Deion and said, tell your son, stop act like he the coldest out here, then put up a four and eight season. That's not a bad dunk right there by KB. Wait, the KB guy is just a random person? He's just a random person. But Deion decides I need to respond to this and says about Chidor, he will be a top five pick.

Where your son going? L-O-L-O-L, I got time today, L-O-L-O-L. This is, it's entertaining.

I got time today. Deion is nothing if not entertaining. He's the best. But this storyline, both parts of this storyline are going to be fascinating to watch unfold through the course of this season. Because on one hand, you've got a Colorado team. And listen, I was sitting there like everybody else, was it TCU in the opening game last year and they beat them?

And you're sitting there just going, Deion's going to do it, man. Well, the first three weeks of the college football season, thank God there was nothing really else going on. College game day is there. Colorado just kind of swept the nation up in its wake because they were just beating teams and they're 3-0 and they're ranked.

And it's like, all right, this is fun. They then lose eight of their last nine. I know attendance was down a little bit for the spring game. The weather issue, I think, was a factor.

Down a little bit. But you at least are going, okay, they've got a lot of work to do. And with Deion, it's always been about the transfer portal and bringing the guys in. They operate differently, I think, than a lot of other schools here. So how Colorado does year two with Deion is going to be really, really interesting to watch. They're never going to be like a top recruiting class type of team. It's going to be you transfer there, you come in, you play for Deion.

It's a pro-style environment. Let's ramp it up. With Shadore Sanders, and I haven't gone deep through the 2025 draft yet.

I will start that probably around January of next year. I'm literally looking at a 2025 mock draft right now. Where do they have Shadore Sanders in the mock draft, if anywhere, in round one? Let's see. So I'm looking at PFF, and they have Shadore ninth to the Raiders. Okay, so ninth to the Raiders.

One of the teams that Deion, because he's already said publicly, he will only let his sons go to certain teams. And these are things that have been contemplated by Caleb Williams in his camp, Jayden Daniels in his camp. Can we force our way or whatever?

In both those cases, they never really pulled the levers to actually try to go to a different place. If Shadore Sanders plays well enough, if he becomes this year's Caleb Williams, he'll have more leverage. If he doesn't play as well, if Colorado doesn't play as well, it's going to become more complicated.

But how this entire thing? You are, and again, Deion's never been afraid to do this, but you are putting all the pressure on yourself and your son. Shadore's putting the pressure on himself as well to be that high draft pick. We're going to call our shots. We're going to be a number one type pick here. This is not regarded as a really strong quarterback class in 2025, which is part of the reason, when we talk to people within the league, why six quarterbacks in the first 12 picks? Part of it is because everyone's going, well, we don't want to draft one next year. We don't want to be in that spot because we don't know who that next guy is going to be.

Is it Shadore Sanders? Is he the first one off the board? As much as we talked about Caleb Williams and everything that comes with him, the people who dug into Caleb Williams found he was really driven. He'd been built for this moment for his entire life in terms of, from 10 years old, his dad had set things up for, I'm going to have Caleb be the number one pick.

And to their credit, what they did worked. So when they're doing things differently through this pre-draft process and he's not doing the medical at the combine, he's not working out at the combine, he's only taking one visit, he's only giving one team his medical, they could do that because he's in that rarefied type of area and it doesn't surprise anybody. With Shadore Sanders, it's going to be similar in terms of everybody is thinking, this might be a little bit different process. We don't know exactly how this is going to go, but a Colorado team that goes out and wins eight games and Shadore plays really well versus a Colorado team that's 4-8 and it's Shadore standing on his head just trying to make things happen is going to impact some things in terms of exactly how this entire pre-draft process ultimately plays out. I think Colorado is going to be one of the biggest stories coming up in college football this year.

Out of the gate, but if they start 0-2, I haven't looked at their schedule, but if they lose a couple of games early, are people going to care? Does Shadore keep playing? But if Shadore is playing really well, last year they had offensive line issues and he's kind of running for his life, he took a lot of bad sacks. If that gets cleaned up this year and he's putting up the kind of numbers we saw in the first part of last season, it's going to be really interesting. He's the betting favorite to be the number one overall pick. I'm sure he's really high up in the Heisman odds. A lot of pressure on this guy. No, and he's fun to watch. Travis Hunter is fun to watch.

When you create that pro-style environment, it is interesting to see. Deion is very much, he knows exactly what he's looking for, he knows who his guys are. It's Deion coaching by the Deion rules, the rules when Deion was playing. He wasn't listening to anybody.

What was the legendary quote to Andrea Kramer? If Detroit had taken me, I would ask for so much money they would put me on layaway. You don't have those options now.

Everything's slotted. The only thing you can try to do is pull those levers to say, I'm not going to take a visit to the team I don't want to go to. You better not take me, I'm not showing up. Caleb Williams, Jayden Daniels, are they rumblings, are they going to try to do it? Is Jayden going to get himself to the Raiders? Is Caleb going to get himself someplace else?

They didn't actually do it. Next year, this is going to be the one to watch of exactly how this plays out. A lot more to come on this edition of the Rich Eisen Show. Tom Papa comedian in studio in the final hour. Also ranked my top five NFL division races to watch. Right after this, Tom Pelissero in for Rich. We'll see you next time.