What the Football with Suzy Shuster & Amy Trask: NFL Network’s Daniel Jeremiah

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Last-minute tickets, lowest price guaranteed. Amy Trask, we got out the booze. We were talking before you guys and talking about the difference between a podcast and a broadcast. Part of it is number one, you can drink. And number two, cheers. Good to see you. I was just going to cheers you. And also, you know, like, guys, we want to have a conversation with you, even though you're not here to clink with us.

But, you know, it's easier to have a couple pops first. Then we can ask you questions like about, oh, tell us your best Al Davis story. By the way, guys, Daniel Jeremiah, we know he is, he's the marquee, right? Our names are down there.

He's the big marquee name because his mock draft will be unveiled next Wednesday on NFL Network Live. And Ames, like, when it came time to prep for this, I realized, I'm like, oh, I was starting to, like, go deep. And who are we going to talk about? We were talking, Rich and I went and talked to a class at Brown yesterday. And this kid, Jack Elliott, asked me, okay, so, and Rich had just gotten off. And he says, okay, well, who do you like post pick 11?

Who are the big names? And I was like, I'll let you know tomorrow, Jack. And we can ask Daniel Jeremiah because I have no idea. Who cares what I think? We've got Daniel.

He's going to give us all the intel. Okay, well, first of all, I've missed you. Hi.

Hi, Ames. Number two, I've missed the game time at, you know, the read that you do. I found myself, you know, brushing my teeth hearing you do that read. I almost called you and had you read it to me at home. That's how much I've missed you. And you know what? I'm going to clink you again.

Right. And I'm also going to clink your wisdom in saying, why the heck should you do the research when we've got Daniel Jeremiah joining us? I mean, it's no joke because the fact of the matter is as much as I think I know everything, I don't. And you had that great quote earlier. What's your Charlie Munger quote? Oh, my husband dropped this on me years ago. He said, let me quote Charlie Munger to you.

I'm sure you'll agree with me because you're smart and I'm right. And let me tell you, he uses that with me sometimes. And now I use it a lot with him and with other people.

I used it once on air. The only people who really loved it were the executives who are like, damn, she's quoting Charlie Munger on a sports show. Well, Daniel Jeremiah is always smart and always right. And in fact, last year he correctly predicted the Texans.

Yes, he did. And we'll see what he says about this year, about who he is surmising and what he sees ahead. People always do all these crazy mock drafts. I don't have time to do a mock draft.

I want someone to tell me what's happening. No one better. No one better. I'm not Cassandra. I can't tell the future. But you can talk to us about the past. You did spend so many years watching the NFL draft at the side of Al Davis. Give me your craziest Al Davis draft story. Well, the draft has obviously grown exponentially in recent years and it is a marketing opportunity, not just for the league, but for the teams.

But it's always been that, just not at the level and on the scale it is now. So every year during the draft, I would meet with Al every single afternoon after he was done meeting with our scouts and our coaches. And he would clue me in, not even clue me in, he would tell me his thinking. But I wasn't with him on draft day. I was downstairs entertaining our sponsors, our advertisers, trying to woo new sponsors, new advertisers.

It was a big marketing event for us and we had our Raider Limited partners there, the media was there, there was food, there was everything. So we're down there one day and someone comes in behind me and says, Al needs to talk to you or Al wants to talk to you. So I walk over, I pick up the phone.

Okay, kids, Google this. It was a landline. I pick up the phone. He's upstairs and he says the following. We're going to take them. We're going to get killed.

You're going to have to handle it. Click. That was it. Who was it? Do you want to guess or do you want me to tell you?

I have no idea. It was Darius Hayward-Bay. And in the weeks leading up to the draft, we were getting filleted by local media that, wow, rumor has it the Raiders are going to take Hayward-Bay and they were just killing us for what they believe the pick to be. So he calls me. I'm downstairs.

As I said, I'm entertaining. We're going to take them. We're going to get killed for it.

You're going to have to handle it. And you know what? We did take them. And he went on to have a really good career. His best year was under Hugh Jackson and Hugh did what the best coaches do. He best positioned players to be their best. Darius averaged 15.2 yards per reception, almost a thousand yards that season. But I always remember thinking, okay, I'm going to have to handle this now.

Let me get right back to you. And what was his 40 time? Oh, I see you honed right in on it. It was fast. I think it was about 4.3. And Al loved shiny, fast people. Al loved speed. I mean, gosh, Cliff Branch, perfect example of speed.

As Cliff used to say, speed kills. And it's so funny because if you look at Malik Naber and everybody oohed and ahhed over his 40 time, that was a 4.35. So imagine how fast a 4.3 was. That's crazy. You know, it's the 20th anniversary of Run, Rich, Run. It's the 20th anniversary of Rich attempting to break six. Are you suggesting he's going to do 4.3? No.

8.6? Well, you know, he does it every year for St. Jude. He does. I'm very proud of him. He's raised over seven million dollars.

But trying to get him to break six and we're talking 4.3 and like, oh, 4.35, not as fast. By the way, not only does Rich do magnificent work for St. Jude's and all the credit and love in the world for that. Suzy, that's not a bad time for Rich to be running. Because if I'm not mistaken, doesn't he run in a suit and like grown up clothes and work clothes? But I don't think Al would flag him.

I don't think Al would have flagged him. Okay. So yes, I'm on TV now.

Yes, I'm still horrified by cameras. As you know, when I was on the sideline before games, watching our team warm up, entertaining people on the sideline, when I would see a camera coming near me, I would run so fast people would say to me, Al's going to sign you to play corner. See, perfect.

Exactly. And sadly, that call never came, but you did just fine. Sebastian Janikowski, I remember, what I remember from that draft is I remember working in the newsroom and people saying, what the hell are the Raiders doing? I love your story about guys who acted one way when the draft happened and then another way when he started booting really, really, really long kicks. Can you tell me?

Yeah. Since we're enjoying some sparkling beverage, I will tell you why I giggled when you said, what the hell are the Raiders doing? During my almost 30 years with the team, I heard what the hell are the Raiders doing a lot as related to many things. Look, Suzy, right when I joined the league, right when I joined the Raiders, someone on Raiders staff said to me, here's what you're going to hear a lot of during your career.

I confess he did it. And that's what went on with Janikowski. We drafted Janikowski again. I'm downstairs. I'm interviewing. I'm interviewing. I'm entertaining our sponsors, our advertisers, our limited partners.

I'm trying to woo new sponsors. And all of a sudden, after our first round pick, Janikowski, I believe it was 17th pick, down to the cafeteria area where there's coffee and food come our scouts, our player personnel people, our assistant coaches, and they start distancing themselves from the pick. Oh, can you believe Al picked him? Oh, can you believe Al picked him? Absolutely trying to wash their hands of the pick.

And I have no respect for that because they were saying behind his back what they weren't saying to his face. You want to say something to someone? Say it directly. Well, guess what?

A few years later, Janikowski's kicking 59-yard field goals and 63-yard field goals, et cetera. And all of a sudden, these same people are congratulating themselves on their wisdom in picking them. And one of the guys in particular says to me, yeah, we made a good pick there. I said, we? You're the one who ran down to the cafeteria to tell me it wasn't you. And now you're saying we?

That ain't the way to run a business. No, never. But nobody likes to take credit for the mistakes that they made ahead of time.

I confess, he did it. Exactly, right? And that was such a weird pick. I just think people, he was an unknown quantity. And I think people thought, what the hell is he picking a kicker so high up for?

And you know what? Special teams are a third of the game. And yes, you know, it's something we may go into next season when we do this again, is the changes in the kickoff rules, the changes in the kicking rules. But kicking matters. Field goals matter. How many games are decided by a field goal or a missed extra point? Or can you kick off and keep it away from your opponent? Or are you kicking it out of bounds and giving a good field position? Kickers matter.

No, they do matter. Rich actually had a shirt that said, punters are people too. I want that shirt.

Yeah, by the way. And I think Pat McAfee has pretty much proven that it's probably the most valuable position on the field these days. It's going to be a great draft to watch. I am fascinated to see who will do the trading, who will trade up, who will trade down, and which quarterbacks are the ones that go in place. Obviously, selfishly from a Patriots perspective, I saw this headline earlier today saying the Patriots are entertaining offers. I'm like, shut the hell up and take a quarterback.

Offers for what? What are you going to do? Take a big name quarterback? You know I'm not a hot take girl. I don't do hot takes. I have something that's pretty close to a hot take, and it's on Caleb Williams. The people that were criticizing Caleb Williams for painting his nails and running around like, you know, henny penny, henny penny, the sky is falling. What will the church elders think Caleb Williams is painting his nails? Let me tell you something. If someone can win games for you, if you believe this is the guy that can win games for you, if I'm in a front office again, my answer is, and by the way, I don't want to be, so let me rephrase that. If you're in a front office of a team, and you believe someone can win games for you, and he paints his nails, who the hell cares?

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That's OReillyAuto.com slash Eisen. Fresh off of a gazillion interviews is Daniel Jeremiah. We so appreciate your time and bouncing around from interview to interview, asking you the same damn question.

I would give you champagne through the camera if I could, because obviously I told you I got Amy a little sauce before the interview. Just a little. How many of these have you done?

Today, I think maybe like eight or nine. So you just keep going. You go around and you knock it out. I look at, though, there's always, I don't know how you guys are with this, but I have this ability to kind of connect to like the 12-year-old version of yourself that like humbly, like, you're going to really complain about this? Like, this is like, this is fun. And there's that part of me that I always kind of connect with.

It's like, come on, this is, I could be doing a lot worse than this. And you know what? I love that because we are all so fortunate to be able to be doing that which we are doing and that you recognize that and just share that.

I absolutely love. All right. We have so many things to unpack. Let's just get right into it because I know you're busy. Okay.

So we know Caleb Williams is going to Chicago, right? Correct. Okay. Now what? Now what?

Then what happens? Well, I've just, you know, there's two different thoughts here. One is everything that you hear from talking to people around the league and the large, vast majority of them expect Jayden Daniels to be the second pick. When I press them on that, it's not based off of any information they've got out of Washington.

It's more their personal evaluation and they just expect that's what they're going to do. I've just kind of through this process, I've known Adam Peters for 20 years and I kind of, I think about DQ and his background and he's gone to a Super Bowl with Matt Ryan. So just trying to like put those together without any inside information and I've just kind of pointed towards Drake May, you know, being that second pick through the entire process.

So I'm in a weird place where that's kind of what I think is going to happen based off of just the information I have and studying the people making the decision and what they're looking for. But man, I'm literally, I feel like sometimes just on an island of one right now because everybody seems to expect that Jayden Daniels will be the second pick. Who would you take if you were in their position and just from flat out ability alone?

Yeah, I would take Drake May. And to me, the reason, and I know that's, again, most people will have Jayden over him. Jayden played the best this year. If you want to just live in a one-year vacuum, Jayden Daniels played the best. He played better than Caleb did this year. But to me, you're not drafting a year's performance. You're drafting the ability level of the player and I've seen what Drake May could do last year with just a decent supporting cast.

I mean, they weren't great at North Carolina the year before, but they were decent. He had Josh Downs had at least an NFL wide receiver and he put up big, big numbers. And I get somebody who's a bigger frame guy. He's got more size, more physicality. I think that's going to bode well durability wise for him going forward. Someone who I think works more in the middle of the field and kind of the NFL has played in the mud. As you guys know, like there's not going to be guys running free all over the place.

You've got to be able to throw us some anticipation and working tight windows. And some of that, you know, he had to do because of who he was playing with and who they're playing against. So that to me is kind of my long-winded answer of why I like Drake May. That being said, I mean, I think I have Jayden Daniels one spot behind him on my ranking. So there's a lot to love about Jayden Daniels and his ability. I worry a little bit about what his narrow frame and some of the reckless style in which he plays.

You know, how long that holds up that way. So that'd be one of my major concerns there. How much jockeying for position are you anticipating? And by jockeying for position, I mean, of course, teams looking to trade up. There are quite a few quarterbacks as you've identified. There's just a long list of quarterbacks in which teams find interesting. Are you expecting a lot of trades or attempted trades?

You know what, Amy, I think to me it's like how they come off the board. I think everybody has their flavor that they would be willing to be aggressive and go get. You know, the Minnesota Vikings and talking to a lot of people around the league, they're identified as a Drake May team. So if Jayden Daniels goes to and New England has made it be known that at least, you know, Elliott Wolf said today they'd be maybe open to listening. He didn't rule it out by any stretch. I would think that the Minnesota Vikings would try and move heaven and earth to go get Drake May.

I also know they do like JJ McCarthy, but then we get into the difference between do you love them or do you like them? You know, do you want to go all the way up there to three and make that all in Godfather offer? Or are you more content to say, let's just let this play out a little bit. Maybe if we have to trade up a little bit, we'll do that.

Or maybe we'll just, you know, stand pat here. But as you both know, like when you have a lot of quarterbacks, there's different opinions. And then people, as you get deeper in the process, the owners become involved and the owner can look at that situation and say, okay, I can sell this. Like you get me the young quarterback, that young quarterback represents hope. And I can sell hope. So then, you know, you start seeing, you start seeing people that have said in meetings for months, we're willing to trade up to this point.

But outside of that, that coffee's too rich. Like we're not going beyond that. They have a way of pushing past those limits once you get late in the process and the owner gets pretty involved. Wait, what?

Owners get involved? Wait, wait. Yeah, you don't know anything about that. Yeah, you don't know anything about that.

Wait, my mind is blown. I'm going to try and paint the picture for you here. I don't know if you can even just imagine such a thing.

I can't imagine it. Yeah, but if, if Elliott Wolf is, I mean, I want to shake him and say, what are you kidding me? If a quarterback represents hope, why are they saying they're open for business? Like what, what are they insane?

Get Drake May, like what's the problem? Yeah, yeah. The only thing that I can think of there is, and I've referenced the Patriots through this whole draft cycle with this personal experience, which was in calling the Charger games and going to New England last year and being able to juxtapose what I saw in that stadium versus what I had seen numerous other times in that building with the run that they were on and the juice and the energy in that place that was electric to go on there last year when it's raining, the stadium's half empty and they got shut out.

And I'm like this place. And that's when I kind of thought, okay, I think it's probably over for Belichick here, just because you get to the point where they need, they need some enthusiasm. They need some life. They need something, you know, to, to really energize this place and a quarterback can do that. So if, if they're not going to take him there, my only explanation for that is, okay, well, they really like JJ McCarthy and they're comfortable. Even if they had to trade back to 11 and got a huge haul from Minnesota, they would then have the ammunition to be able to come back up to, you know, five, you know, a team like the Chargers and come back up and still get a quarterback. But if they go into next year and nothing against Jacoby Brissett, who's a, you know, a solid stopgap player, that's tough to sell. That's not, you know, hope has left the building at that point.

Yeah. I think it's on 95 right now before we go talk about the Chargers. And you said that with JJ, so I want to talk to you about that. But I would be remiss if I didn't ask you your opinion on what's been coming out lately with Belichick and Kraft and the possibility of Atlanta. I mean, how much of it do you think as you ascertain and kind of take your experience, like what are your thoughts on all of these news releases that have been uncovered by ESPN and the like regarding Belichick and Kraft? Well, I mean, I think it's I kind of believe it.

You know, I know, I guess people have thrown water on it, but I don't have any reason to doubt it. I just think, you know, you have so much time together there and you have so much success. And what is the what is the phrase again?

Success has many fathers, failure, failures and defeat as an orphan. Yeah. Yeah.

There you go. So that's what I was thinking of when I was reading through that article. And it reminded me a little bit of the, you know, the Jerry Jones, Jimmy Johnson. So, you know, they had their run and their success.

It's a race for credit and it's a run from blame. So, you know, does it surprise me that, you know, these owners talk to each other and would recommend or not recommend somebody? No, I think that's a very tight knit fraternity. There's nothing about that that that really surprised me at all, to be totally honest. Interesting. You know, you reference the Chargers and I don't believe.

Oh, by the way, a number of years ago on CBS Sports, we did a pre draft show and I was asked who I thought should be taken at that spot. And I said, Justin Herbert. I don't. By the way, that was the kids call it a humble brag. A brag by definition is not humble.

So that was just a brag brag. I don't think they've yet had a coach who has best positioned him to be his best. I am thrilled with the Jim Harbaugh hire. I think Jim does what the best coaches do.

He best positions players to be the best. But the other hire that's gone under the radar screen a bit that I think is just off the charts. Brilliant is Mark Trestman had the opportunity to work with him in Oakland. He is.

As they say, Susie, you're from New England. Wicked smart. He is wicked smart as an offensive mind, and I'm really excited to see what they do to maximize Justin's skills. I was talking to a coach on the offensive side of the ball and they were having their install meetings with the coaches at the combine. You talk about using every minute to be productive where most of the coaches, you know, some of the activity that takes place at the combines, not always football related. They were like doing installs with all their offensive coaches. And this coach, this coach was telling me that they had a conference room rented out, you know, reserved and everything. And he said, we'll we'll put in a run play. And once, you know, OK, this is the play.

This is what's called. And he said, Trestman will then go, yeah, the first team that ran this, I was with this team. And we had this coach in 1982. We installed this week three against such and such team, and then it evolved from there.

And then this other team picked it. It's like this guy knows the history of every single play that were put in. Like he is. Yeah.

Wicked smart is a good way to put. Can't wait to watch. Speaking of the Chargers picking at five, they need to receive or who are they going to take? Well, I think if you're the Chargers, I think they want to get out of there if they are going to sit there and pick. To me, the order I have it, I have it. Marvin Harrison, I have Roma dunes, a two and Malik neighbors three. But that being said, they're number two, three and four on my list of the best players in the draft. So in other words, there is no wrong answer.

They're all three exceptional. I think if there's no trades that Marvin's going to probably go for, I would guess to to Arizona. So then it becomes neighbors who's super dynamic, explosive, you know, run after catch. I don't think he's you know, it's not quite as route polished as Roma dunes. Roma dunes has a bigger catch radius. I've seen I've seen Herbert play really, really well with big physical ball catchers, you know, with Mike Williams and with Keenan when those guys were healthy. There's a reason why Herbert had put up monster numbers when he could actually get those guys out there on the field. I think Roma dunes a would would fit beautifully with him. And I also think, you know, at the end of the day, most games come down to third downs and red zone. And so when I'm trying to split ties and I have very similar grades on these guys, when I have a dunes versus neighbors and I look at third down red zone, I'm going to take the bigger guy. And it's not like he's a slug either. I mean, he runs in the low four four so he can still move.

Can you give me comms for those three guys, please? Like coming out of college? Yeah. So interesting.

Coming out of college. Really, you could make the same one for Marvin and for a dunes. Like a dunes to me was Larry Fitz, like Fitz coming out of college at Pitt. I remember having a coach in the room. I was in I think it was Baltimore.

I know it was Baltimore. And he was like, I just don't know how fast he is. I'm like, does he get caught? Well, no.

Yeah. Well, he's fast enough and he catches everything. And he's he's a brilliant dude. You can play him anywhere. The work ethic, character leadership off the charts.

So that was my dunes a comparison. Neighbors was like a like a D.J. Moore type player who we've seen take off for the Bears.

You know, did a nice job in Carolina and you saw him take another step last year. It was run after catch. It's like a running back with the ball in his hands. You know, big time burst, big time explosiveness. Marvin.

Marvin, I didn't have one for him like coming out of college of someone that came to mind that he really reminded me of. But there is a little bit of and I know I'm talking about some Hall of Fame players here, but there's a little T.O. to him like just just as a power forward. He is sculpted. If you get a chance to see him like he is just he is a machine. So he's going to start whipping his shirt off and start benching in somebody's yard.

Is that what you're saying? We could start getting some benching, some push ups, maybe with some fatigues on, with Rosen House trying to explain the whole thing. I mean, that's that would be exciting. But now they're there again, all three of them to kind of paint the picture of some of the names that we're talking about here. These are really, really good players.

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Our house is a mess. Come on in. I'm Amber Wallin, Internet comedian and host of your new favorite podcast. Fly on the Wall. That's pretty presumptuous to assume that this is going to be their favorite podcast, by the way. Anyway, that wasp that you just heard interrupt me is my husband and co-host Benjamin Wallin. Listen in as we discuss relationships and keeping our sweet baby kid alive.

Fly on the wall and wherever you listen. We haven't even talked about Michael Pennix. We've made it this far. I like I like Michael Pennix. This is one of the things that's that's difficult during this time of year, because I get hit with you have Michael Pennix is your thirty fourth rated player, but you have him going 13 to the Raiders.

How does that make any sense? And I said, OK, well, let's put it this way. If you're the Raiders and you look at your grades on players and, OK, want to take the best available player, I get all that. But will we all agree that quarterback is the most important position? Yes. OK. Who do we have at the position right now? OK, when I look and I have Gardner Minshew and I have Aidan O'Connell, OK, is Michael Pennix better than them?

Yes. So if I can upgrade at the most important position on the field, I'm OK moving a guy up the board a little bit. You know, they're going to miss out on those other guys. If you're the Raiders, you know, those guys are going to be gone. So this is part of your decision process.

And to me, if I have a chance to upgrade with a younger, cheaper model, I'm going to do it. So he will be donning the uniform? You know, I don't know what the heck they're going to do. And they have needs in other areas. They need tackles. They need a tackle, I should say. They need corners and they need some help. In a perfect world, I described it as they would take, you know, get a tackle at 13 and then roll the dice, gamble a little bit and then maybe try and come back in and grab someone like Pennix.

I just think I don't think Pennix works for everybody. I think Pennix works for the Raiders. Well, you know, given your point about they need multiple help at multiple positions, the other option, of course, is trading down and taking more players and trying to fill more needs. Yeah, that to me is a very Raider friendly thought. I just don't know who's coming up at that point in time.

Like usually you're trying to look at who they're trying to get in front of and for what. You know, I would say that there's a little bit of an inflection point when you have the you have the Jaguars at 17, who are pegged as a corner team, and there's a chance you have one of those top two corners could still be hanging around there. Then you could see, you know, Philly needs a corner. They could be maybe, you know, Howie Roseman loves to move around.

That could be one where maybe you could convince them to come up to go get a corner. But it's tough to identify them at that spot where they are as an inflection point where teams would feel the need to go up there. JJ McCarthy seems like he keeps impressing people. And I keep hearing conversations on different programs and reading things about, oh, well, you know, he's showing what he could do when he was in the field because Michigan didn't want to throw so much.

And so he's played a Harbaugh offense, but he's the general and he can do this and that and the other. Who might have been more impressed with him that they're willing to move up and get him? Where do you think he's going to go? How impressed do you think he has? How impressive do you think he has been that he might inspire a team to take him? Yeah, I think that I call it quarterback alley 11, 12, 13.

You've got you've got Minnesota, you've got Denver, you've got the Raiders, all three of those teams, potential quarterback teams. So that to me is his sweet spot there. And then it becomes that back to that conversation, which we had is if you like him, are you willing to gamble and just sit and wait or do you love him? And do you want to ensure that you get him?

And maybe you have to move up a little bit to make that happen. But he's he's a challenging kind of use the phrase of an acquired taste with JJ, because he's one of those guys when you're just casually watching games, right? When you're just flipping through games on a Saturday in between, you know, getting some lawn work done and you're like, OK, Michigan. I mean, Michigan just runs the ball like the quarterback doesn't have to do anything. They play great defense. They run the ball and he just gets to kind of come along for the ride.

And then when you start studying them and you just keep going, you've got to watch a lot of tape. And then once you you start getting into the cut ups and watching all the third and seven plus throws where everybody in the stadium knows you have to throw. And you're like, oh, this guy, he could do this.

There just weren't the opportunities there for him to do it. And the best way it was explained to me was somebody who was watching tape with them was they were going through and they were watching a game and they got down inside the 20. And JJ was like, well, you can fast forward. And they're like, what do you mean? We're inside the red zone. This is a quarterback. This is what we want to hit. It's Michigan football. Like, we're inside the 20. Like, we're we're going to run this ball right into the end zone. Like, this is not we didn't have to do that to beat the majority of the teams we played. We practice it all the time. I was rep for it.

I was ready for it in Alabama. And, you know, in the big stage when we needed to, I could I can do it. But why? Why?

If you don't have to. And I thought that was actually a good coaching by Michigan like this. Not a distrust in JJ.

It's just we don't need to do that. Daniel, Jeremiah, of course, the NFL Network analyst, his mock draft is being disclosed live next Wednesday. And everybody will tune in for that. The NFL Network, of course, providing live coverage of the twenty twenty four NFL draft in Detroit.

April twenty fifth to the twenty seventh. It is Daniel, Jeremiah and some guy named Rich. What will the what will the Giants do with six? I mean, you can't really do they really want to invest in Daniel Jones? I thought that they would try and move heaven and earth to get to three.

There are another team that I had, you know, I think Drake. But I think if somehow Jayden was there at three, I think either one of those. I think they would try and make that happen and just try and convince the Patriots like, hey, you can come to six. And if you wanted it like we were talking earlier, if you want to take J.J. McCarthy here, we'll give you you'll get some some picks from us.

And then you won't get out of J.J. McCarthy range. Try and sell that versus Minnesota having more sizzle to sell with the two first round picks in this year's draft. But that would be an interesting decision for the Patriots if that were the case.

And I know they've done homework. The people that I talked to around the league did not expect the Giants to be a J.J. McCarthy team. They were more of the top three guys. That was their that was their line.

And if they couldn't get those top three guys, then then they would roll forward with Daniel Jones. But when you've done this much homework and it's all out there that you've done this much work on all of these quarterbacks. You know, I don't necessarily buy that due diligence.

I don't know if I don't know if I buy that. Daniel, wait, wait a second for what I'm going to say, because I promise you there's a segue. I have said for decades and decades and decades that I think I would be a phenomenal spy. And the reason I note that is about a week ago, I saw that the CIA is hiring or looking to hire new recruits.

Now, I'm not saying they have to be spies, but, you know, we are talking about the CIA. What I find as one of the most impressive things you do is glean from that which is shared with you. What is factual? How people are trying to mislead you? Are they ceding you information just for the purpose of misleading? I mean, you've got to be in many regards a phenomenal spy in determining what information is accurate and what is misleading. So I'd love to hear your thoughts on that. But I also want to tell you the problem with what the CIA is doing.

They would require you to do 27 pushups and 18 pull ups or vice versa in a minute. So that was a challenge for me. I don't know that I would make the recruiting, but, you know, all teasing aside about the CIA. And by the way, CIA, we know you're listening, so I'm not really a spy. But in all sincerity, I think one of the most phenomenal things you do and your work is tremendous.

Your predictions are tremendous. You've got to glean and you've got to parse through what is accurate information and what is ceded for purposes of misleading you. How challenging is that? Yeah, I mean, I've learned over the years that a lot of the stuff you get later in the process is the least accurate stuff.

As everybody's trying to throw misdirection. I'm never going to ask. I have a bunch of friends as general managers. I'm never going to ask, hey, who are you taking? Tell me what you're going to do. Like, I'm never going to do that.

That's stupid. But I try and look at the history of how they view players and who they like and what the team needs and try and put that puzzle together. And then there's other means to go about it. Like, I'll give you an example today. There was a coordinator for a team that's in the quarterback business, a newer coordinator who had interviewed for multiple jobs. So I called around to one of the teams that he didn't take the job or didn't get the job and asked, did he give you his opinion on this class? So I'm trying to work behind.

How about when we have general managers and Tom's great, but I mean, if you think that I didn't call the Chargers to try and find out what the Chargers draft board looked like under Tom Telesco before he left to see if that gave me any inclination of who the Raiders might like, you're crazy. Those are types of things you're trying to just collect information and try and learn different things. Sometimes you get stuff that's useful. Other times it's not.

But that's the rabbit chase. And at the end of the day, look, I'm not Ian, I'm not Adam. I'm not going to have all the information. But what I do like to do is once the pick is made, and I think this is where I love what we get to do with our broadcast with rich running point is we'll spend the time, we'll preview the pick. Here's what could happen. We'll see what happens here. But picks made, I think that our job and I hopefully we do a good job with this is, okay, here was how they framed the decision that they had.

And here's why they just did what they did. And so all this information that you're collecting now helps hopefully inform that discussion once they get picked. In other words, you're educating your viewers and your listeners with smart broadcasting and also you'd make a good spy too. Well, can I tell you the spy thing real quick?

Can I tell you my spy story? One of the reasons why my last thing in scouting before I realized, and I had some television opportunities that came up and I jumped at them was there was a player in the draft. I was with the Eagles.

This is 2012 draft. We had some off the field issues. And so he'd had an issue and it was a fight, I believe, and he was involved in it and his brother with then a third party. So I had to go meet with his heist. I had to drive, which was several hours away to his high school.

Mind you, this kid's four years out of high school and I'm doing this on a fight that took place while he was in high school. So I'm going to go meet with his high school coach, drive a couple hours each way, have lunch with him. He explains to me what happened. I think, okay, we're good here.

Nope. I got to go meet with the brother and he's a couple hours away. So do another day on my schedule.

I block off. I go meet with him, see if that matches up with what was said. And then I need to go meet with the kid himself on a third day.

I spent three full days of my life investing a fight that took place in an In-N-Out Burger four years ago between a high school kid and some kid he didn't get along with. And I thought, you know what? TV sounds pretty good right about now. I think I'm good on this whole scouting thing. Yeah. Ask Rich about the time he had to follow a police chaser to go to something on Staten Island when he was working for the advance and ask him why he got into sports.

And he'll tell you a really good story. That's for another podcast. Okay. Let's play.

This is like Taylor Swift, Easter egg time. Okay. So give me some comps on Caleb Williams as we kind of like peruse ahead and think about your mock draft coming up.

I'm going to want a couple Easter eggs in that as well. But let's start really quickly with a comp for Caleb. Yeah. For Caleb.

Yeah. Coming out of college to me, he's built like Russell and he plays more similarly to Patrick, which is the best way that I can describe it. And I think one of the things with Caleb, you know, first of all, Patrick then is not what Patrick is now. Like Patrick sat for a year under Andy Reid with Alex Smith and he's blossomed into the best player maybe of all time. But he played on a team with a crappy defense at Texas tech. Every game was a shootout.

And he made, he made some wild plays in every single game. And I don't think people it's difficult for them to get their mind to the fact that that's what USC was the last two years, but they were more like Texas tech, Patrick Mahomes level teams than they were like Matt liner, USC teams. Yep. But you know, it's funny, he's not going to get that time to sit. I mean, you know, we talk about this a lot. It's just that time to bake on the bench and learn from somebody in front of you. And by the way, excuse me one moment, the changes to the collective bargaining agreement had a big, big, big impact on that. And when the most recent collective bargaining agreement was initially put in, I was in the league, not with its revisions. But everyone looked around and said, the day and age where people can sit on the bench for a year and learn as Patrick did under Alex Smith is really gone.

No question. The good news is, you know, I think Caleb in terms of, you know, refinement, I think he's a little further along than Patrick was at that point in time. There's a reason why Patrick wasn't the, you know, the first quarterback and the first pick in that draft was because, okay, there was the understanding there. We got to be patient.

And obviously he went to the right place to maximize his incredible talents. Again, I don't know how you guys make these predictions because it makes no sense to be and I can't wait to see your mock draft next Wednesday and you're going to tell us everything about it right now. What's the Jenga piece that could make this entire one through 10 just blow up? I think it's four, you know, that's really where the draft begins is with Arizona. We're going to have quarterbacks go one through three. If Arizona just sticks and picks, you know, then there's a chance we could just see this thing, you know, stay static, you know, as we go through the top 10. I feel like once that first trade happens, and that would be, you know, presumably for the quarterback, then I feel like, okay, this throws everything off a little bit. And then now, you know, this, this could get kind of interesting and this can get kind of fun.

And I also think there's like a, there's always that wildcard possibility that it's just kind of hanging around out there. But like, is there anybody that we're just, you know, is there anybody we're not thinking of that's way out of there? I know Shrager has been talking about maybe the Colts are a surprise team and come up. I was doing some stuff with, with Mina Kimes earlier today and she was like a Buffalo who needs a receiver.

Are they going to make the Julio Jones type trade and come all the way up for one of those top three guys? Like that's like the, then it's just like, and then we're, and we're really off and running at that point in time. You know, Susie, you referenced Daniel's mock coming out next Wednesday, and I can't wait to see it. You're the one last who last year nailed that Houston Texans move.

Boy, you had that to the T so that goes to my spy point or actually it just goes to your draft knowledge point. Is that really going to happen? Like that's one of those ones where you're like, okay, I think there's a chance this happens.

It's worth just putting this out there, but I'm like, I could look really stupid when this thing doesn't happen. So I was relieved. I was very relieved when they said there's been a trade and that was the longest pause ever when, between Rich said we have a trade and I'm like, please be the Texans on the clock. Please be the Texans on the clock.

The Texans are on the clock. What's your over under on the trades? Oh, I think the average is like five or six. I think when you have this many quarterbacks and I think that tends to stir that up a little bit. So, and I think we've got, in some ways, I think some of these younger general managers, it's kind of like how baseball has become a little more fun as some of these guys are really more willing to do stuff.

And so I'm going to say we see over, I'll go over six. I think we have a bunch. Who are we not talking about that's going to end up being the biggest star and in five years, we're going to say, I can't believe we didn't talk about the 2024 draft.

That's a fun question. Who's going to be a star that we aren't necessarily talking about. I'll tell you this, this year, if you look at the number of defensive tackles that have got big deals over the last 12 months, it is stamped that that is a premier position in this league right now. It is one of the hardest things to find.

And when you find it, you pay them and you pay them whatever the heck they want. And that's why I'm going to look at a guy like Byron Murphy from Texas, who's somebody that can come in, can rush the passer from inside, which is the most valuable thing you can have on a defense nowadays. And I think he's been maybe a little short changed to this process.

I like it. Reminds me like, I always think of the Mario Williams draft and what was it like 2006 and everyone was like, they're taking it. They're taking him.

I'm like, yeah, he's insane. And he's really good. He may not be a quarterback. Was over Reggie Bush. That's right.

Of course. That's why I remember it because I think I was covering it feels like a quarterback must go down and he must go down hard. That man was onto something. Daniel, give us one little nugget ahead of time. One little Taylor Swift Easter egg that you can reveal for us here on what the football that you can say ahead of time before next Wednesday, before the NFL gets you.

Oh gosh, a little nugget. Well, yeah, I'll say that I wouldn't, you know, we're talking about trades and people moving around. I would not sleep on the Detroit lions moving up for a corner. So they are at the, uh, they are picking 29, a team that's been, you know, for so many decades, you know, up there at the top of the draft and they were so close to getting to a super bowl this last year.

I can see it's, uh, it's easy to sell kind of that finishing piece. Um, and I think getting a big time corner to throw in the mix there would be, uh, would be a nice addition. My God, if that happens in Detroit, that'll be incredible.

Have fun. What's it like with rich the whole time? Does he get giddy as you guys get on, you know, keep going on and on and on because by the end of it, the two of you look slap happy. Yeah, it gets, um, depending on the names of those who may be picked, uh, which could send us down a winding road that gets all of us in a lot of trouble as it did in Chicago one year.

Um, if we can avoid that, I think we'll be okay. It's weird with rich. Like I get asked this question surprisingly a lot, and I'm sure rich does as well. Cause we are on, there's not many things on television where you're on as much as we are at the combine together. And then the draft, these long, long programs, but like we genuinely enjoy each other's company. So it goes by fast is, uh, is, uh, some don't believe that, but it really does.

It's just fun. Daniel, I have long had so much respect and appreciation for all you do. And I want to add to the respect and admiration and appreciation for you that last year, when you let the rescue puppy pee on your shirt and you reacted as lovingly and graciously as you did. I added to my list of things I admire and appreciate and love about you that moment. So thank you for advancing the cause of rescue puppies. Thank you for reacting as you did when the little puppy who was scared peed on you. I love you for that.

Thank you. Oh, it was, you know what you were looking, we're looking for, uh, something to latch onto a storyline. And then, uh, as we get to that portion of the draft and I was like of my bingo card, I did not have a cute puppy peeing on me being something we'd be able to latch onto at the end.

But that's, uh, that's what happened. And, uh, that, by the way, I never got reimbursed for the shirt. I forgot to send that. You just reminded me cause I haven't thought about this in a minute.

I never sent the, uh, I am not here to give any tax advice whatsoever, but given that you were supporting a nonprofit charity with respect to animal rescue, maybe deduct the cost of the shirt. That is not legal advice. Do not rely on me. Next time, send Rich home with a puppy. Yeah. If it's a rescue dog. Did you want one? My wife was mad at me cause she said, why didn't you bring one home?

I live in San Diego. How am I supposed to get the dog from? You put them in a bag on the plane.

You carry them on. Come on. He's a little puppy. All right. Well it's in play now. If, cause I think we're doing the puppies again in Detroit.

So listen to your wife, bring her home. A rescue puppy. I texted Rich during a show yesterday, a video of a hundred pound dog I almost brought home. And he's like, can you at least wait till I go to commercial break before you like make me stressed out? Daniel, Rich's love for you is so deep and so profound.

You very well may be his favorite person to work with. So have the best draft and thank you so much for spending this time with us. Oh, I enjoyed it. You guys have a great week and we'll catch up soon.

Thanks again. Thank you, Daniel. Such a great conversation with Daniel Jeremiah.

Again, our thanks to him for spending this much time during his most valuable real estate session. Right. I had me thinking Amy, as we were getting ready for this about the comparison to the WNBA draft, which you just saw a couple of days ago, which saw numbers we've never seen before. And we knew who's going first, much like we knew that Caleb Williams will be the one who's selected first. We knew that Kaitlin Clark was going to get selected first. Two and a half million people watched the WNBA draft. And you know, I understand that NFL drafts will get more people to watch.

They'll get six million on average at any time. But how cool it was to watch these women get drafted. It was a spectacular coverage. Holly Rowe is, I mean, just the greatest interviewer. She knew every girl out there. She knows them so well.

She knows their career so well. And it really compared to the NFL draft. We'll see on NFL Network next week, these reporters who know every single inch of every player in their back or what have you. But I just thought it'll be so interesting to see for the first time, like we can kind of compare the excitement around these two drafts.

Well, I think the point you raised fascinates me. As you said, everyone knew who was going first. There was not going to be a surprise, yet more people than ever tuned in to watch her go first. And you're right, the coverage was magnificent. It was, and it will be magnificent next week as well on NFL Network Hour.

Thanks to Daniel Jeremiah. Once again, don't miss his mock draft being unveiled live on NFL Network a week from, what's today? Today we shoot on two, we're on Thursday. It's next Wednesday.

Watch it, take it in and let's see just how accurate he is on those trades. Thanks again, you guys. We've missed you. I've missed you.

I really have missed you a lot. I've missed everything about this and I think we're going to have a different vibe going forward. Basically, I'm going to get Amy hammered. Before the show, when we came in earlier, I was looking through all the hard alcohol that we had. Charles Woodson, if you're taking this in, we need some more wine. We need some more intercept. And maybe we stick with the bubbling next time. And by the way, my husband listens to every single one of our podcasts and he is right now putting you on speed dial. Suzy, cut her off after one glass.

Somewhere in Florida, Leslie Visser is drinking right alongside with us. I love to hear from you guys, as we always do. Thank you for taking in this edition of What the Football. We will talk to you soon. If you want to read the cover letter of a book called Headhunters Hiring Secrets, add a P.S. to the bottom of that cover letter. That can actually increase the chances of that letter being read by up to 75 percent. Some people actually glance down and read the P.S. first.

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