Pete Thamel: Caleb Williams Was Loved At USC

Oh my God, you guys are my favorite. This is The Rich Eisen Show. The one and only Rich Eisen. With guest host, Suzy Schuster. Live from The Rich Eisen Show studio in Los Angeles.

Helena would be tough. The only con of going back home is just people hitting our phones crazy. What are you willing to share about your quarterback plans? We are definitely in the quarterback hunting business. And we got to go out. We got to find ways to acquire them.

You know the ways we can do it. Earlier on the show, NFL Network reporter Stacey Dales, Emmy nominated host of The Rich Eisen Show, Rich Eisen. And now, sitting in for Rich, it's Suzy Schuster. Hey, everybody, Suzy Schuster in for Rich Eisen. Just had Rich on in the second hour of the show from Indianapolis. If you missed it or if you missed Stacey Dales from the first hour, please go find us on YouTube. Wherever you find The Rich Eisen Show on Roku, it'll repay, re-air right after this. So don't go anywhere.

You can watch all of that content. Pete Thamel will join us shortly from ESPN. Great article on Caleb Williams and about him sitting by and basically watching the combine from his hotel room, meeting with some different teams to see who gets him, whether it's the Bears, the commanders.

He said he was a big fan of Chicago. We want to talk to Pete about that as well. But first, let's take some phone calls before we get to Pete. And Pete's doing an amazing job juggling. So we're all going to be very, very patient.

I think that's the way to go today. Let's take Jason in Mississippi. Hey, Jason.

What's up? Come on, Jason. Jason, you there, Jase? You've been holding on a long time. Jason, I'll put him on hold.

All right, put him on hold. How about Sy in L.A.? Hey, Sy. Hey, how are you doing, Suzy? Hi, how are you?

Good to have you. What up? I'm good, Chris.

Chris, D.J., Mikey D and TJ. I want to give a good go, Bill. Some Mccoskins in the back. Nice. Nice.

Yeah. I you know, it was funny, Suzy, when you hosted right after the Caleb Williams emotional stuff happened, I was on I was on hold and had to get off. So now that we're talking about it again, I wanted to call in and be like, emotion in sports is like what it's all about. You know, like it really, really is. And like, look at Jason Kelsey.

Anybody going after Jason Kelsey about not being a leader or like, you know, what is he doing crying in his mother's arms after, you know, losing the Super Bowl or any of the Bills players, you know, after what happened with the Mar Hamlin last year? I mean, I just think it's my first gut reaction when I hear about that negative negativity is like grow up. But then the other part is like I I just want people who feel that way to experience the freedom of like letting it all out. You know, it's just really such a and I have incredibly strong women in my life. And I just who I'm getting emotional just thinking about it, like just I love the women in my life. I love my mom, my sisters, all of my friends.

And like, why would I not go to them for support? So, you know, that's what I want to call in and say. And I love what the football, by the way. Oh, thank you, Cy.

It's fantastic. Really, really appreciate that. Thanks again for your call.

I really appreciate you taking the time to call in and you held on for so long. Pete Thamel joins us now from ESPN. And Pete, you know, we were just talking with this caller, Cy, about the Caleb Williams controversy when he jumped into the stands to hug his mother. And I happened to be sitting in for Rich right after that. And I thought it was wonderful. I mean, not just because I'm a mom, but also because I really appreciate real authentic moments in sports.

And I can't get over the amount of guys who push back saying what a baby and crying isn't for football and he's soft. And I saw it the exact opposite way. I was curious about your take. So it's interesting, right? Like that's that's a sort of classic quintessential talk radio show topic, if you will.

Right. If you want, you know, for the football guy crowd, they can they can sort of ascertain all sorts of things that pretty soft. He's not ready for the NFL. You know, you obviously had a completely different perspective about it, which which I tend to which I tend to agree with what I what I think we are seeing. And we need to get used to as Caleb Williams comes to the NFL is that this is a different generation of player. And they came up in a completely different generation. They came up with a generation of social media, of Instagram, of NIL.

And they don't these athletes in this draft and beyond don't fit in the cookie cutter paradigms that, you know, that we remember athletes being. And I think Caleb Williams, who I've known since he was in high school, has been authentic and stayed true to himself throughout. And he's been you know, he's been very consistent. The other divisive thing was that he painted his fingernails and people made a big deal of that. His mom is, oh, God, I'm not going to get the term right, a beautician of some sort of paints fingernails.

You can tell I don't get my done often. But and that was a way for him to connect with her and bond. And it was it was authentic.

I think she was part of his Dr. Pepper commercial in which he in which he in which he did that. Yeah, I mean, by the way, it's a manicurist because God knows I could use her right now. But, you know, I hear another term, though, it's like there's a nail technician. I mean, you could call a nail technician, a nail art technician, if you want to go really 21st century for the kids. I can't even get my tie knot right. My wife nags me about it all the time.

So I don't I'm not definitely not going to get the nails situation right. Yeah, I had a real problem with that relationship judgment, and I thought it was actually fantastic. And I thought it showed a warm side of him. And look, you know, what you said is so key. Those of us who grew up with the college football in the 20s, 30s, 40 years ago, it's not the same game. And NIL has changed a lot of that. What's your opinion on how NIL has changed the current players and perhaps their relationship to the NFL? Sure, it's an interesting question, because there was always NIL, it was just not given above the board and it wasn't taxed. Right. You know, these guys always had access at a vast majority of the schools to, you know, the types of things we've seen them buy with NIL, be it cars, meals, you know, different perks, different person on campus. They were always there.

It was just a black market that that fed them. So but things have changed. There's there's there's no doubt about there's no doubt about that. And I think I've done a lot in as a college football writer in writing about scouting and the scouting process of what scouts look for. And the one thing maybe I learned later in my career that I didn't know earlier in my career is I thought scouts would go to all these campuses and look at the left guard and see if he has a good hand punch or footwork or, you know, bendable hips.

Right. And they do all that. But these scouts really go to campus. And the number one question they have, they go talk to the strength coach, they go talk to the academic books, they go talk to the lunch ladies. And they say, does this kid love football and does he love to work? And so because sometimes the goal used to be, you know, I'm going to go get the contract and buy my mom a house or buy my mom a car or whatever.

Some of those goals are achieved earlier now. And I think it's incumbent on the NFL to figure out, is this changing the players motivation? So you delved into this in your incredibly well-written article on Caleb Williams. But what do you think the prevailing thought is on Caleb without really knowing him? So I would say this at both of his schools and when he was in high school at Gonzaga, but at USC in Oklahoma, Caleb Williams was well liked in his locker room. Caleb Williams was the hardest worker. I remember talking to a source at USC a month after he got there.

And the person said to me, Caleb Williams is just one of the most fantastic college football players I've ever met. Like it was it was not, hey, we'll see. It was not it was like immediately he went in. And remember, they had Lincoln Riley called it like the most unique roster in the history of USC.

I mean, they had an entirely new team come in because it's remember the collision of NIL and the portal. When when Caleb arrived there from Oklahoma, he was a linchpin leader and he was well respected. And ultimately, when the NFL is making the calculus of what's this guy going to be like? And again, with quarterback now, it's like what's going to be like in community, what's going to be like in front of the media every week, etc. He was you know, he was beyond beloved at USC with, you know, with within that within that locker room and within his teammates. So what do you think is the most interesting and unknown question about him that's still out there?

Well, it's it's a it's a good question. I think I think there's I'm curious where he goes and how he fits in that system. I think the talent is the talent. It's probably pretty telling that a vast majority of the Caleb Williams conversations that have unfolded in the last six to eight weeks have not been about his arm strength. It has not been about his accuracy.

It has not been about his play. I want to give my colleague Matt Miller credit for this stat. Caleb lost, I believe, nine or 10 games at Oklahoma and USC. And in those games, the defense led up an average of Matt told me last night, 48 points like, wow.

You know, like to beat Caleb Williams, you basically had to hang 50 on either the the Sooners or the Trojans. So I don't think there are questions about the player, about the prospect. I just think it's a matter of does a franchise want to make a Herschel Walker type trade to go get him, be that Washington or someone else? And and do the Bears want to risk, you know, do they want to be with the the Blazers or when they pick Sam Bowie instead of Michael Jordan?

Right. Do they want to you know, do they want to be the team that passed on a guy who, you know, I've had scouts tell me he's as good of a prospect as they seen since Andrew Locke coming out of Stanford. In my 21 years cover college football, luck and Trevor Lawrence have kind of been the standards of, you know, near perfect prospects, as perfect as you can be. Who would you take if you had the number one pick? Wow, I always joke in college, I don't have any scholarships, so my opinion doesn't count. But I certainly don't have any draft picks.

I don't definitely don't have the cap space to pay up. But I would take Caleb Williams. The other quarterbacks are great.

I think Drake May, if you went back the last 10 drafts, Drake May probably would have been the number one pick and eight them, right? Like there's a lot of elite talent there. And obviously, Jaden Daniels was the most dynamic player in college football last season. You know, he's really a testament to quarterback development not being linear. He had a bananas season his freshman year at Arizona State and then he struggled for a couple of years. And he went to USC and Brian Kelly, Mike Denbrock and Joe Sloan, the quarterback coach there, helped him finally develop, which he never really did at Arizona State.

So that's a long way to say that I would take Caleb Williams. ESPN's Pete Dimmel joining us here on the Rich Eisen Show, Susie Schuster in for Rich. What about the next level of quarterbacks like the Pennax, the McCarthy's?

I always push back on the McCarthy thing. They're saying that, you know, he's a game manager. I hate the whole game manager routine. I think you're supposed to manage a game if you're a quarterback. Who do you see as the potential to be the top choice amongst the next level down?

Yeah, it's a fascinating class. I think this is a little bit of like the COVID years have given us a bunch of older quarterbacks who, again, didn't develop on a linear scale. Look at Pennax, he had injury problems.

You know, next year he really struggled at Auburn before really finding himself at at Oregon. And look at J.J. McCarthy. Well, I think any NFL team would take someone who could manage to win 27 out of 28 games. Right. That's really the only statistic that matters when you're judging quarterbacks is wins. And he was 27 and one as a starter, obviously won a national title. All very different quarterbacks.

And again, sometimes we always start these conversations with the negatives. I'll start with Pennax, who I probably am most intrigued by out of that group because the ball leaves his hands, Susie, so violently. I've never seen in person the ball leave a quarterback's hand just as viciously as it does Michael Pennax.

I mean, what do you mean by that? So when you stay in field level and this is why scouts scout in person and you watch a quarterback, there's just a certain it's a it's a hard thing to explain, but the ball just bursts out. It's it's like a it's like a rocket ship coming off his hand.

And a lot of this comes and now we get into some draft trope. Right. Hand size. Michael Pennax has giant hands, not like big fans. Remember, every year he has small hands.

He's not going to make whatever. Michael Pennax has giant hands and that helps you get spin on the ball. One stat that Ryan Grubb, the offensive coordinator, is now at the Seahawks, who was at Washington last year, pointed out that he had more passes completed outside the numbers. Now, he also had the best set of receivers in college football. Hands down, not even close.

All three of those guys will be top 100 picks in this draft. But Michael Pennax can spin it, actually, literally spin it. And so it's it's a really fun thing. Anyone who's in Indy for the combine who can go field level and watch the ball leave Michael Pennax's hand. And it's something that certainly shows up on TV, but in person, it's just like a it's just a different level when you're at field level and you watch the ball go from Pennax. He's he's he's remarkable. You know, the negatives are he's had some injury history that's well documented. And, you know, he some of that was he has not been mobile now. He also didn't get sacked, though. I think that's another thing about him.

He has the sense, the internal clock. You know, it's something like eight sacks and eleven hundred attempts the last two years, like a preposterous number. Nobody threw for more yards than him the last few years. And, you know, Nix was just an efficiency monster at Oregon. There's no other way.

There's no other way to say it. He he went from like a dance around guy at Auburn who struggled to find himself and really settled in these last two seasons under Kenny Dillingham two years ago and under Will Stein last year and just in just thrive. He always had an NFL arm and it just needed to come together. And sometimes having superior talent, which Dan Lanning is obviously brought to Oregon, helps bring those helps bring those things out. And what about JJ?

Yeah. So JJ, to me, is the most fascinating. He's a wonderful quarterback who just won big game after big game, never flinched third and six. There was no quarterback he wanted more in college football than JJ McCarthy. The last couple of years, he could beat you with his leg. He could find the tight end. He was crafty. That ball he threw against Ohio State when he threaded the needle is maybe the single most impressive throw of college football last season because it took some onions to throw it and it somehow made its way.

It made its way through for a critical touchdown in a critical game. The knock on JJ is that he's slight. I mean, you see that picture in front of you there. Bryce Young was criticized for being slight. Now, Bryce was short and slight.

So JJ Danos is a little bit slight of Bill, just meaning their frame may not be something to build on. And then some of that goes back to these like Parcellsian ideals where you want your quarterback to be this big hulking Drew Bledsoe type. But I think I'm not bad against JJ McCarthy. I just watch him win too many big games, complete too many big passes and really just be the single winningest quarterback in Michigan history. Pete, I was telling Amy Trask, my co-host on what the football and Lewis Riddick, your colleague yesterday about Vernon Davis, the year that he came into the combine.

And I remember Rich calling me in a commercial break saying like, who is this guy? And give me everything about him. Who do you think is going to be the surprise that you know about from college football that maybe others aren't expecting? Well, I'm going to go with someone who has accumulated some buzz, but I've known about for a while, and that's Quinion Mitchell, the defensive back out of Toledo.

He comes to mind right away. We're in an era right now in college football where players from that group of five who go to the draft are going to be very rare because quite frankly, they get well-earned financial opportunities to move up to the SEC, to the Big Ten to earn high six figures and go. Quinion Mitchell could have done all that. Instead, he stayed at Toledo where he deflected 40 something passes in his career. Jason Candle, his coach, told me he expects Quinion to run 4-3 in the combine this week.

And he really has a chance to be sort of one of these last grade small school stories. And I think the real part of it and why teams are really attracted to Quinion Mitchell is that he didn't want to leave his teammates. He didn't want to leave his coaches. He wanted to finish what he started there at Toledo. He was a three and done.

Nobody recruited him. And I think that's a remarkable story that we'll hear a lot about at the draft. And the other guy who people know about but he got injured and I'm really curious about is Jonathan Brooks because he was on his way to maybe being that sort of rare first round running back.

Now, we obviously saw two of them last year, but the last decade that's become a little bit of an anomaly towards ACL. He's on his way back. He's told me earlier this draft process that he should be ready to go for camp.

And he could be, you know, a little bit of a risky pick who someone could look really smart in the middle of the season that they have one of the best young tailbacks in college and in the NFL. All right, Pete, let's talk about us. We're Orangemen, Syracuse. We're back, right?

Am I crazy? We're back. You are back being interesting. And quite frankly, that program has not been interesting other than a few like Friday night blips under Dino Babers for a very long time. So credit Fran Brown for this. He took a program that had been basically flat lined in relevancy for two decades, and he has given it a badly needed adrenaline shot. Obviously, Kyle McCord, you have a face of the program.

When is that program? Maybe, you know, maybe our Dungy was the face of the program. You know, for a while he won a lot of games. I give him credit. That guy was gutsy. Man, it felt like his helmet.

His helmet came off every third play, it felt like. But there really hasn't been a, like, national face of the program. And Fran Brown within three weeks of getting the job brought one of the better quarterbacks in college football last season to Syracuse. And there's been talent upgrades in other places. I will say this, the talent needs to continue to upgrade.

Fran Brown would be the first one to tell you that. But the schedule, look at the schedule. God, it's ranking our way.

There's no Florida State and there's no North Carolina. That is like the schedule from the scheduling college. Those are usually the, you know, the type of schedules that the teams that ACC wants to go undefeated gets. I don't think the ACC football folks are rigging things for Syracuse, but it is a fortuitous way to start. They even had, they just picked up, I think, a road game at UNLV to start the year.

It was even easier. But a non-league, I mean, it wouldn't be shocking if they're favored in nine games. Again, I have no idea what they're going to look like. There's so many new pieces. College football is a year-to-year business now, and it's really hard to get your arms around what a program is going to look like. And that makes a lot of fun, right? Like, we just don't know what teams are going to be.

And that gives the opening weekend so much juice because you never know who's going to be a rocket ship coming out of nowhere. But yes, I am excited that Fran Brown has gotten Syracuse sort of humming again on the recruiting trail. Yeah, to your point, it's just, when was the last time you were excited about Syracuse football?

It's been a long time. And look, 11-1 sneaking the playoff. I don't think that's crazy. Do you? I think it's absolutely insane. Okay, fine. He is insane.

What do you not know about this? He is crazy. Yes. Yes. But dream.

Like, here's the thing. Hope is free, right? That's what I'm saying. Hope is free. You never know.

Yes. So it is late February, cling on, cling on in those cold Central New York winters, man. Cling on to that hope. Before we let you go, Pete, give it to me straight. Did you come on because I asked you, or did getting a FaceTime from Pat McAfee saying Susie wants you to go on put you over the edge?

I just need to know for my own ego. Tread lightly, my friend. Tread very, very lightly. I came on because the Rich Eisen show has such great broad reach. So I was excited to go on the Rich Eisen show. Just don't go on when Rich asks. If Rich asks, just wait, what? It goes to voicemail.

If I text you, just know that usually there's a parting gift from Nantucket after that, like for our guests, I take care of our people. So I'm just saying, as the NFLPA put out their grades for the different teams, I get an A. Now, I'm not sure what Rich gets, but I'm just saying if you see Susie on there, just feel free to reach back and say, I'll fit you in. Yeah, this Rob guy, I don't really know why you're talking about him so much. No idea.

No idea. I love it. Who? Pete, you're the best. We really appreciate it. And I think this is such a fun time of year to have college football. And it's like it's like watching your kids grow up and go to the big leagues and leave the house. It's pretty exciting.

Yeah, they graduate from my life and there'll be a new a new flock coming in and coming in in September. Fantastic. Thank you so much, Pete. Thanks, Susie. Appreciate it. He's fine. That was great to have him on. Great information from him.

Love it. He didn't really answer the question, but, you know, that's fine. Let's just let's just go with the ego side of it. Let's just say it was you.

You put it over the top. I'll take a break when we come back. OK, so maybe it was just me. I believe it was Susie. Thank you, Mikey. I'm just that charming.

Just that charming. Let's take more calls when we come back. This is The Rich Eisen Show. America starts the day with America in the Morning. Hi, I'm John Trout, your host for the latest news, politics, entertainment, business and weather.

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Bigger Pockets Real Estate Podcast on YouTube or wherever you listen. You standing with a photograph next to Sly, and, you know, we all know what is the height difference between you and Sylvester Stallone? If we were doing a tale of the tape, you're a dolphin. I don't know, but they put me on an apple box to make me look even taller. No, they didn't know such things. Like he wanted that big difference. All the way up there. Yeah. Actually, the kid who plays my son now, he's a bit taller than me. So he's going to be a lot taller than Michael B. So it's going to be like a rematch.

OK, nice. So what would you say? Just a few inches? You got a few inches on it right now?

I don't know, maybe four inches. OK, Mike, why don't you come over here? Would you mind seeing him? Because we've got our audio executive. Come on over here.

Let's see what would the height discrepancy be here for Mike Del Tufo and Dolph Lundgren. Yeah, what would you tell him? Just like this. I must break you. I'm scared. I'm out. I'm out. I'm out.

Just scared. Well, hold on a minute. Let's just show.

You want to measure? Show him. No, no, no. Show the tale of the tape. Show Mike. Hello, the tape.

Let's show Mike's training regimen for the rumble in the gundo. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Excuse me. Tuesday. $20.

Yeah, all seats are $20. We're splitting this. But he's been training. See, he's walking around.

What do you think? He's focused. He's got the beef coming up to hit the beef.

Well, he's got the rocky fingerless gloves too. Oh, yeah. No, this was a great video. OK. We got it all. Oh, wow.

You get him a shot. What do you think, Dolph? Not bad. It's a good beginning.

A couple of years, you'll be good. There's no end to it. That's good, man.

Rumble in the gundo. Welcome back to The Rich Eisen Show Radio Network. I'm sitting at The Rich Eisen Show desk furnished by Grainger.

With supplies and solutions for every industry, Grainger's got the right product for you. Call clickranger.com or just stop by. Let's take a call.

Mustapha in Chicago. Hi, how are you? Thanks for joining us here on The Rich Eisen Show. Good, good, Susie. How about you? Great. That's good. First of all, I want to give you guys a round of applause. Give yourself a round of applause.

You guys are one of the best shows fourth wise on the air. Thanks, brother. Thank you.

Hands down. Great, great. Listen. Thank you for that.

No problem. Question. The Bears trading Justin Fields. I think the Bears should make a package to the Patriots.

And Chris, tell me if you agree with this. Take Justin Fields, the ninth pick, and maybe even a third round pick. Maybe this year's draft or next year's draft. And for the third pick in this year's draft from the Patriots. You're going to also give us a ninth pick?

Sold. I mean, then we can take a wide receiver right there. So we have Fields and Roma Dunze.

You stay in the top 10. The Bears get Marvin Harrison. Get Caleb Williams. And the Pats get a quarterback that they need. Oh, I see what you mean.

And they can draft to get them a weapon as well. So let's say for the third pick, interesting. We probably need a little bit more picks on the back end. But yeah, that's fine.

I'm good with that. I like Justin Fields. I wanted him in 2021. I knew the Bears when you moved up. And Marvin Harrison, which Marvin Harrison, honestly, for his talent, is probably the best player coming out of the draft. And you get the best quarterback to pair up with him. I think the Bears should really look into that.

That's a win for the Bears, obviously. Chris, can you get in touch with Colton to make that happen? Sure. Let me just DM Jared Mayo real quick. That would be great.

Just let them know that's set in stone, please. Well, let me text Elliot Wolfe. Great. Good job.

Hamis up. Thanks again for the call. Really appreciate it. No problem. No problem. Take care.

Alex in Las Vegas. Hi, what's on your mind? How are you guys doing today, man? How are you? Hey, how's it going? It's been a busy day for the past six months since I had my car wreck.

I appreciate you guys being on. Oh, no. Are you all right? You doing good?

You know what, man? I've had three spine surgeries. They failed on all three of them. I've got to have a fourth one.

It's a whole ordeal. But that's either here nor there. You guys are talking about Zach Wilson earlier, right? And he look, I've followed Zach Wilson through BYU. I'm a Ducks fan, you know what I mean?

But I still, you know, I follow quarterbacks. And the problem is, like you're talking about Justin Fields. You know, Zach Wilson, they get drafted to these bum teams that don't have a line. Zach Wilson has an opportunity there with the Jets to go behind Rogers and learn. I don't think they should get rid of him. I think he should sit right there, right behind Rogers.

They need to fix that line. If the line wasn't broken, Rogers would still be starting. You know, he would have still started. He wouldn't have been injured. You know, he's arguably one of the best quarterbacks in NFL history.

If he can't do it, then it's not the quarterback. It's the line. Well, Alex, you're not wrong. And by the way, feel better. We hope that you are doing OK and we send you our best thoughts. Yeah, brother. I mean, you're welcome.

Take care. I really feel like, guys, the Zach Wilson ship has sailed. I mean, Joe Douglas made it clear.

You don't give someone permission to go seeking trades if you have any confidence in that kid being there, number one. Number two, he has taken a beating the last year or two, maybe three. He's taken a psychological beating.

Yeah, not just physically, on the field, but mentally, the jerking around, the yo-yoing. Am I the starter or am I not? You're out of here. Wait, now Rogers is hurt. No, you got to play again.

Wait, no, but tip boils in. You're terrible. Yeah. I mean, we talked about this before the show, even with Justin Fields. I mean, he's taking a beating right now in Chicago.

Imagine, and I know the feedback, Susie, it's a grown man. It's a boys game. Chris, you said the godfather line, right?

It's the business they chose. But for Zach Wilson, it's almost irresponsible to have him stay in New York for his own sanity. And maybe this kid could be really good. Who's a good quarterback who doesn't have a good O-line? I mean, let's face it.

I mean, that's your protectorate. That's why the Jets want to go out and get somebody to protect Aaron Rodgers. And whoever's behind him, whoever comes in and is his backup.

But it's not going to be Zach Wilson. I think about the story, guys, that Rich told about Mac Jones overseas in Germany last year, where he was apropos of nothing, volunteered it himself, that he looked at the situation the two has got, where he's really encouraged. And it's nurturing. And in essence, a hug. Mac Jones needs a hug. I think Zach Wilson needs hugs. They need a fresh start, clean start.

They need a clean break from these teams. And they need to go somewhere else where they're wanted and they're nurtured to be successful. And by the way, I can hear people saying, nurture.

Come on, Chris. They're men. The people that push back on.

That's totally fine. I just think people of my age and older, it's different. My high school coach screamed at us nonstop. And that was the coaching style back then. And kids of my generation and older reacted to that. Kids today don't want to be yelled at.

That's right. Some do. But from what I've seen, they don't react well to just constantly being earholed by their coaches. And I actually think that's kind of an outdated coaching philosophy. So these guys, Mac Jones and Zach Wilson, there's good players inside of them.

You can see it. So I hope they get a fresh start somewhere. And Pete Thamel alluded to that just earlier on the show.

And if you missed it, please watch it again on Roku on repeat or wherever you find your Rich Eisen show on YouTube or what have you. But he did say that football's changed, that these kids are different. These are kids of social media.

These are kids who are taking advantage of the above-the-table NIL. And they're coming in with different expectations. So we see that already in the post-Belicek verbiage coming out of New England, talking about a less intense vibe and changing of the Patriot way, where you go to the bathroom here at the Rich Eisen show in the A-plus facilities here, and there's a photograph of Bill Belichick right above the service entry. And it says, do your job.

My do your job. One of the first things Brian Grazer commented on is he came out from the green room the other day. Yeah, Bill Belichick. Bill Belichick above the toilet.

Staring at you over the bathroom. There you go. I may have to get my do your job t-shirt out for one of the next three days. I mean, but you know. Do your job. Do your job.

And that's why watching this documentary was so much fun. When's the next one drop? TJ, is it Friday? Every Friday, right? Every Friday? Yeah. Two.

I mean, talk about generationally. It's so good. I sat in there with Rich, my mom. Boy, I won't say how old she is, because she won't tell you.

And Cooper, who's 13. And we sat there in a row riveted, because it's so well done. And it was like, I think I've lived through this. Wait a minute, I did. It's pretty awesome.

Right? I remember I text you and Chris, because I started watching it before the two of you who are Patriots fans. And of course, I'm not really. I just love stories. And I text you guys four minutes in.

I've got goosebumps right now watching this thing. It was just awesome to kind of, whether you're a fan or not, just to kind of relive that. Unless you're a Raider fan or a, you know. I mean, it's great if you're a Giants fan.

Episode four was great if you're a New York Giants fan. It's true. That's very true. And then I sit there thinking, they have so much tape. Like, my producer side clicks on. I'm like, how did they shoot all of that? I mean, so much video. Even there's that one shot of Bill Jop walking up a dark alley, turning the keys in the door.

Your team is good at shooting video, though, right? Wow, I don't know what you're talking about. That's funny, TJ.

No, everyone does it. Everyone should have their own documentary. Well, and then I thought, who's the next? Who's the team that's going to follow? I hope they're shooting Chief stuff now. I hope for the last, you know, four or five seasons, they've been doing the same thing. Because it seems like in about 15, 20 years, there's going to be a hell of a Chiefs documentary. How were the Chiefs so good when their facilities were so terrible? So bad. And their ownership, FYI. So bad.

30 for 30. Is there a camera following? I mean, there's a lot of cameras following Travis down to Down Under. Yeah, I hope so.

That would be awesome. What if I told you that the best team in the NFL at the worst training facility in the league and the worst ownership, their name being on the trophy, the locker room smelled like hot garbage on a Saturday afternoon in a hot garbage on a hot barbecue sauce. The snacks were subpar. I mean, the Cheerios were stale.

It's over that job. They'll be eating really good stuff. It's a melt of burnt brisket in the locker room. You're healthy these days. I haven't eaten in 24 hours. I need food. You're right.

You're right, Ken. I can't wait. I'm getting my blood drawn today for my test, and I can't eat. I'm on like a fast for I'm dying. So like no coffee, no nothing? No, I can have coffee.

That's it. I'm going crazy right now. These guys are eating because you bring in the insane croissants. Do you want some nuts? TJ put one in front of my face, and I was like, TJ, cheers. That's not nice, TJ. I just want to see how strong this boy was. He was taunting me. His will was strong.

I just wanted to check it, you know. So if we had a team and ship, I would give him an F right now. OK, teammates, F, green room, a plus green room, food, a studio. Great snacks. Amazing when you're here. When I'm here. Guest host.

I mean, a plus plus plus you do that. Jay, Jay is into the guest house. Jay, what is going on? Yeah, what's Jay doing? I love Jay.

Come on back off. You know, I support you whenever Rich rips on you. I sit there and I tend to be nice to Mike. Rich's mother and you, which I love you both. That's and I mean that. That's funny. In what order?

Just want to know. I've known you longer than Rich's mom. Thank you, Evelyn. You're amazing.

I'm just saying a lot of ego. Let's take a break. News update when we come back. We're wrapping up this hour of the Rich Eisen show.

So much more ahead. Chris Brockman's news update, people. You can't miss that.

Whatever app you switch to. Be sure to follow so you never miss the next episode. And thanks for listening.

Wherever you listen. I think Patrick Mahomes is going to lead you onto the field next year. It's going to be weird getting into a huddle with Alex Smith too. Because you did not obviously play in the last game of the year, right?

No, I did not. So that was where Mahomes was out there. Yeah. What are your feelings now that Alex Smith has been unofficially traded away to use your traceology here? It's awkward. It's awkward.

I honestly don't know how to really accept it. I mean, through my entire career, you can't say Travis Kelce without Alex Smith. I mean, he's been my quarterback.

He's been the guy that's arguably the, I owe a lot of my success to him. So it's going to be awkward going into a huddle, like I said, with anybody but Alex. But I know Pat is ready for the opportunity.

Sure. He's taking a lot of mental reps and a lot of notes from Alex and how this thing should be ran. Alex ran it to an absolute T this past season.

And obviously, everyone's excited to see what he can do. We had Chris Harris of the Broncos on game day morning in the playoffs. And he said, when he was looking at film of Mahomes and he played a couple of series against him, he says this kid's got some serious ability. The Broncos said that. Yeah.

Have you seen anything of that note? Without a doubt. I mean, what he does in practice is it's fun to watch him in practice because he's on the scout team, kind of just being a backyard quarterback, throwing it every way imaginable. You can think of sidearm, underhand, putting the ball anywhere on the field. So it was definitely fun watching him in that regard. And when he played against the Broncos, I mean, he had a lot of footballs where he put it right on the money, and in crucial times and crucial moments.

So I mean, like I said, it's going to be exciting to see where he can go with it because the expectation is definitely high. Suzie Schuster here with you on The Rich Eisen Show. I'm busy sending chocolate-covered cranberries to Pete Thamel for joining us here on The Rich Eisen Show. That's nice of you.

Man, nobody does stuff like that. I send gifts. I use Aunt Leia's fudge on Nantucket.

I'd like to send a little chocolate-covered cranberries as a thank you for coming on. Hey, listen, I want that A-plus grade. Yeah, that's true. I just want that. I want that.

That's it. I get it. Yes, I want. I want the customer service.

I want people who are on The Rich Eisen Show and with the football, wherever you get your podcast to let them know I appreciate them. So I'm just saying. So I just finished that up.

Took care of business. Do I get to read the podcast? Like between you and Amy and Brockman and Rich?

Because I do both of them. Yeah, you get to. Oh, yeah.

Brockman and Rich. You guys, you and Amy bring food. Yeah. Ice cream. Kind of like I give you a conversation. Yeah.

Overreaction Monday is pretty funny. I give you laughs. You know, I mean, you know, I hope that would be tough. Friendship. I always have your back. That's a lie. That's that's.

Yeah, seriously. Always have. I definitely win that one. I've known him longer. I win that one.

Well, length of friendship does not equate to strength of friendship. But in your case, you are you are true. You do have thank you, TJ. Anyone else?

Thank you very much for that. I don't know why you have his back more than anyone. I always got a great question. Don't let anyone here put you down. Whatever.

Chris, you know, real quick, I've been holding on to something for a minute. I want to talk to you guys about you talking about Russell Wilson, right? Did you watch the Brandon Marshall interview? Did you watch any of that?

Just some of the clips I've seen, not the whole thing. Russ is talking about how, like he got the call saying they wanted him to take away his injury clause in his contract, and that didn't happen. They were going to sit him down. And then, you know, I'm thinking right after that is that moment where Sean Payton was just screaming at him in his face on the sidelines.

Right. No one could figure out what was going on and why that happened. And then, you know, it just kind of occurred to me, like, let's just say Russell Wilson would have snapped back at him like most people probably would have getting yelled at like that. That could have triggered like a clause in his contract that, you know, actions detrimental to the team or something. And they could have probably avoided his contract if he would have done anything at that moment. It was just something I was thinking about, because that was so weird to have a coach just screaming at your quarterback like that.

It just it didn't sit well with a lot of people and it didn't really make sense. But now you kind of have to wonder was that part of a plan to maybe get him to lose his composure so they could? Perhaps. Who knows? That seems diabolical if that's that seems very diabolical.

But what other? Well, it's a crazy contract. It looks terrible. It looks like one of the worst moves in NFL history now. But you know, you can't blame for that.

Russell Wilson. He didn't. He didn't write the contract. He didn't.

No, no, no. He signed it. He signed it. And, you know, he's going to get his money. And he's probably going to be on a new team next year.

It was just something I was thinking of as I was watching that, like because that moment was so weird to all of us. Let me ask you a question about that. Now, money aside, because obviously he's owed a tremendous amount of money. At what point does a quarterback become Klay Thompson? Like and by that, I mean realize that they're going to get another chance. And obviously, with the amount of money he gets paid, it's very limited.

But at what point does a quarterback like Russell Wilson realize that the time is kind of counting down? There was a great article that I read last night. Maybe it was The Athletic about Larry Bird and Klay Thompson, because Klay was having trouble realizing and kind of absorbing the fact that he was going to come off the bench. And then apparently Larry Bird was heard talking at the All-Star game about Klay Thompson being the player that he loves watching shoot more than anybody else. And it re-infused him with a sense of self-confidence and created a connection between Larry Legend and Klay Thompson. Wow, that's cool.

Didn't know that. Yeah, well, Larry knew it was over because his back was obviously sure, you know, shot and spasm every five seconds. I just mean, you know, we talk about where's Russell Wilson going to go? We've got all these young quarterbacks.

It was a rough stint in Denver. Who wants him, Chris? I don't know. And who wants him to be their starter? That's the thing.

I'm not sure. I'm not sure where the spot is for him or if it's like one of these teams drafts a young player and you have Russ come in as a mentor, as the bridge guy and be the mentor. You know, Russ starts for X amount of years, kind of like how the Giants wanted Kurt Warner to be when they drafted Eli Manning. And it just didn't work out. And Eli ended up having to start midway through the year because, you know, Kurt kind of got the yips there for a second.

I don't know. I don't know where the spot is for Russ. Like I said, the teams you kind of throw out there are kind of the obvious ones. It's Atlanta and Pittsburgh and New England. These teams that are going to have to either draft a quarterback or find some other scenario.

It's tough. I mean, nobody's talking about Washington. I guess we just assume whoever Washington drafts is going to be starting from day one.

Yeah. Do we do we assume Washington's going to take a quarterback? We have been. We have been. It just seems like it.

Do you think there's any chance to take new ownership? I don't know, I guess it just is that the belief there with Sam Howell. It doesn't seem like it towards the end of last year. I mean, they lost what? Eight, nine in a row and the season to move into that number two spot.

I don't know. Man, Russ is going to be 36 next season. Seems like it seems to me like a Klay Thompson moment here is almost closed.

Yeah, yeah. And then, you know, we look around at some of these other quarterbacks. We wonder where they're going to go. I mean, who is going to hug Mac Jones? Who's going to hug Zach Wilson? What about Jimmy G? How about Jimmy G? We're not even talking about.

Got a two game suspension to start next year for the PD on a prescripted that's all very murky, very, very murky, very murky. So, yeah. Where's he? He I think the handsome peptide.

I think he's one of the 30 best quarterbacks, though, I think. I don't know. Yeah. And Stacey Dale said it in the first hour.

You know, nothing is science. We've seen this for years and years. You go back to the Ryan Leaf draft.

I mean, that's how far back you go to talk about this. That's the thing is the first first round draft picks or coin flip, whether they whether they hit or not. You know, I would imagine first round success rate is probably under 50 percent just for all players, not just quarterbacks. Seems like quarterbacks are even. Less than less than that.

I mean, think about the think about the Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, who's at E.J. Manual draft, you know, who knows? You got a news update? I got some news items.

What do you got? Roll my music. And now with a report of the day's news from the world of sports and entertainment, someone who is not a journalist or newsman by any definition of the word whatsoever.

It's Chris Brockman. Hey, what's up, everybody? All right. What up? Talking a lot about quarterbacks. NFL Combine this week drafted two months in Detroit. Are we going to be there?

Let's hope. All right. And Rapport saying that Jayden Daniels spent yesterday at the combine meeting with ready bears, commanders, Vikings, Jets, Giants, Patriots, Raiders, Seahawks and Saints. Oh, my. That's a good list.

Oh, baby. Real quick. Which team is the best fit?

Would he fit in best and have the best chance to win right away? Anybody on that list? Bears, commanders, Vikings, Jets, Giants, Pats, Raiders, Seahawks, Vikings, Vikings. Yeah.

Bring back Justin Jefferson. Right. Vikings. Who else are you thinking? Hmm. Raiders, tough division. Seahawks.

Interesting. Division. Bears. I think the Bears are going to be everyone's hot pick. I'm going to predict this now.

August, you're rolling around, you're watching all the shows. Bears is going to be a lot of hot picks to win the North. How's their line? Not great. Oh, there you go. Not great. Not great.

I'm sorry. I just like you start at the line. Absolutely. I mean, you're going to spend all that money on this kid who needs a lot like.

I'm going to look at the line. And that's kind of my thought with whether the Bears stick with Justin or go with Caleb. You don't address that number one problem that they have is keeping the quarterback safe and up. Right. Then you're just making a collateral move, right?

You're just going from one another and you're not really addressing your area of need. Yeah. Raiders moving up. That would be something.

All right. New head coach in New England, Jirad Mayo, talked today. A lot of quotes going around. Obviously, Bill's out. Things are different. No more podium and pressers. Did you see that, Susie?

They're using a table. What does it all mean? Coach, talk to me. Look, it's going to be different. But at the same time, I would say, look, Bill did a great job for a long period of time. I don't want you guys to take this as because we're changing their shots toward the previous regime and saying that we will do it differently and it'll feel different. But at the end of the day, we would like to replicate the success that the prior regime has had. And so I learned a lot from Bill and also his staff.

But now we'll see what this chapter looks like in the franchise. Who are these people? That's the thing. It's so weird. It's like we're going to get rid of the hard asses and whatever the quote was. Well, the hard asses won a lot. So the warm and fuzzy stuff is cool.

But I'm not going to give out slankies. I'm not expecting playoffs in 2024, but playoffs in 2025. Like, let's go. Right. As a Pats fan, I don't know.

It feels uncomfortable. No podium, no nothing. No Dunkin Donuts sign behind him. Maybe. Who knows?

All right. So quick, quick hitters. Some Chiefs news. They released Marquez valid as scantling, saving twelve million dollars against the cap. This comes after they informed with Jerry Sneed that they are prepared to use the franchise tag on him and opening open to a trade if they can't reach a long term deal. Chiefs GM Brett Beach also said that in terms of Chris Jones, the goal and intent is to hopefully get a long term deal done. There would be shocked if Chris Jones left the athletic reporting. The Raiders don't plan to tag Josh Jacobs, so he could be on a different team next year. Jeff Darlington says he thinks Kirk Cousins could explore his options and free agency. That's kind of a shocker because everything that we've been hearing seems like Kirk was just going to come back to Minnesota.

So if Kirk's out there, that's definitely a big QB fish. And Jeff and Dodgers fans rejoice. Oh, Tony made his debut yesterday, one yard in his third at bat.

We're going to see like 80 home runs from Otani this year. I just have a feeling. I love you said debut. And I try to power through that. I meant to say I was going to let that go. I was trying to power through first on a power set about what are you going to talk about on the show today? He said, Mom, you got to talk about Otani. We talked about it right at the end.

Yeah. Coop, Tony. Oh, Tony's amazing. He's going to he doesn't like that.

He's going to hit a million home runs, which doesn't care about if you like a nickname or not. He just does it. Obviously. Have you ever met him?

Coop should accept that one. Great show. Great show tomorrow. Mad Dog Russo joins us tomorrow. It's going to be fun.

Thanks, everybody. The Rolling Stone Music Now podcast gets inside the biggest stories with Rolling Stone's senior writer, Brian Hyatt. And here's Lil Yachty with Tierra Whack. I've never been to a fashion show. I never did any Paris fashion week, New York fashion week. And I'll tell you why. Because I would always go to events and people would say to me, Oh, man, Yachty, man, I love your music, bro. I should be like, what's wrong? I didn't even at the time I didn't love my music. I would feel like I'm in a room with all these artists and they all respect each other. And I feel like no one respects me. Rolling Stone Music Now, wherever you listen.