Mike Vorkunov: there's plenty of blame to go around in Detroit

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That's the headline. The Rich Eisen Show with guest host Dan Schwartzman. OMG. Live from the Rich Eisen Show studio in Los Angeles. Oh, my gosh.

And now sitting in for Rich, it's Dan Schwartzman. Oh, our number two of The Rich Eisen Show, a lot of NFL talk in hour one. Oh, we got to do it. We have got to do it. I know it's kind of hitting somebody when they're down, but we don't have a choice. We have to talk about what happened in Boston yesterday. Detroit Pistons. Oh, so close to snapping this unbelievable losing streak that just continues and continues and continues. Up 19 points at halftime, you think to yourself, oh, man, they can't blow this, right? I mean, come on.

They're just destined to win this game at this point. That's what you thought. And what happens? Of course, that's not the way things work.

That's not how it plays out. And somehow the Detroit Pistons lose in overtime to the Boston Celtics. And the losing streak is now at twenty eight games in a row. That now has tied the longest losing streak in NBA history with the Philadelphia 76ers when they were in that Tankadelphia stage, losing as much as they can to try to compile top draft picks. And they lost twenty eight in a row between the 2014 2015 season, the end of that year and the beginning of the 2015 2016 season. Heck, at this point, you've lost twenty eight. You've tied the record.

You might as well at your name. Without another team, no co losers. You might as well lose the Toronto Raptors. And that game comes up on. That's going to be their next game.

And that's going to be on Saturday. The 12 and 18 Toronto Raptors are at the two and twenty nine Detroit Pistons. Now, interestingly enough, for Detroit is Toronto has to play today at Boston.

So Toronto may be tired on Saturday, giving giving giving this team a chance. To not make history by themselves and be the sole owner of the longest losing streak in NBA history. And this is mind boggling.

This really is. The Pistons started the year off two and one. They did. They actually had a winning record. They lost to Miami by one to start the season. Then they win at Charlotte. They knock off Chicago. And, folks, that was it.

Literally, that was it. From Saturday, October 28th, and we are now a full two months past that, a Detroit Pistons fan has not seen their team win for exactly two months. They've come close. November 8th, they lose to Milwaukee by two. That was a close one.

They lose to Denver by four November 20th. They've had a couple other close ones here and there. But they've been getting blown out big time as well. And yesterday was that opportunity.

And it's not a look. It's obviously not a good team. Let's not kid ourselves. It's not a good team. But you have a guy named Cade Cunningham, former number one pick averaging twenty three points a game. But Danovich is averaging 20 points a game. There is some young talent.

Jalen Durin's averaging 13 points, 11 and a half rebounds a game. You kind of just think you fall into a win, right? Like you catch some team on a really bad off night, the way Boston was yesterday, and somehow you pick up a win here or there. The difference with this Pistons team and the Philadelphia 76ers that they share this dubious record with is that Philly was legitimately trying to lose all those games. I can't say the same thing about the Detroit Pistons. They're not trying to lose all these games. They're just losing all these games. It got so bad in Philly that when anybody gave them a chance to win, they got rid of them. Ish Smith emerged as their best player for a little bit.

And what do they do to get rid of them? Why? Because they didn't want to win games. That's not what you're seeing here with Detroit.

So it's kind of stunning. Monty Williams is their head coach, and there comes a point where you say, how much of this is players? How much of this is just the fact they don't have a lot of good players? And how much of this is actually on the coach?

Now, look, a coach isn't going to do it all for you, right? Monty Williams is a guy who, you know, was a first round pick of the Knicks out of Notre Dame. I believe he had that heart condition.

So they always had kind of a defibrillator on the baseline when he played for the Knicks. He had an NBA career that spanned about nine, 10 years. As a head coach, Monty Williams has had some success in Phoenix for four years. He won a bunch of games. He won 51 games one year. He won 64 games one year. Lost in the NBA Finals in 2020-21.

Made it to the Conference Semifinals the next two years. So I don't think he's that bad of a coach to be in this predicament, right? It's hard to explain how a team can lose this much. I can't explain that you have a good coach. A guy who's had a track record of success. You have at least one player that you can consider to be somewhat of a star of sorts.

And a decent cast of young talent as well. So it doesn't make sense that they cannot win a game, but they were 2-1 and now they're 2-29. Think about that, they're 2-29.

Art Martinez, this is just mind-boggling and bizarre. That a team that's not trying to lose can lose this much. Let's compare it to some of the other sports. Like in the NFL, it's 29 games straight.

The Chicago Cardinals. And that was three years, 1942-1945. But think about the era, right? Think about the era though, right? Like different era, I don't know, there was no free agency, things like that. Now you can change a roster in one off-season. In Major League Baseball, it was 26 games.

Louisville Colonels in 1889. Right, which is again, just another generation. Different era. So I don't understand... Is it worse now? Do you think it's worse now than it was back then? To lose this many games? Oh, absolutely.

Absolutely. I don't know what policies worked back then in terms of the ability to trade players. I don't know, I doubt there was no such thing as free agency in those times. In the 1940s in the NFL and the 1890s in baseball, whatever it was, there was no free agency. So you certainly couldn't do that. You couldn't change out a roster within one year like that. So this to me is clearly much worse. I mean, this is at a level that is, again, stunning. Really stunning.

Something you just don't expect. And I feel bad because the Pistons, it's like we talk about the Cleveland Browns, right? The Pistons have a fan base. They have a good fan base.

They have had a track record of success in the organization's history. They had the bad boys, right? I mean, that was a heck of a lot of fun to watch those guys. Pretty much, they ended the Lakers dynasty back in the early 90s or whenever it was. Yeah, and don't forget, they didn't exactly, you know, when they won with that team, they had Rip Hamilton, they had Rashid Wallace. They had really good players. I wouldn't say any of them were great players. Rashid Wallace is a really good player. Rip Hamilton was a really good player. Dennis Rodman was a really good player. Maybe the closest thing to great, I'm not sure.

But you see what I'm saying? They just knew how to play as a team. So you could win without having that one true superstar. Bill Lamebeer.

Lamebeer, exactly. They had attitude. They had swagger. They hurt you. Like, they made it.

You didn't drive the lane on them because you were going to end up on the floor or in the hospital. It was a different era. So you have a team that's got a track record of historical success, a fan base that has stuck through it, you know, and has tasted the champagne. And now they're sitting there watching this dreck.

2 and 29 embarrassed. I actually talked to two guys today at work earlier who are Lions fans. And, excuse me, Detroit sports fans. They're both from the area. And one of them said to me, you know something's wrong in the world when I have to look at the Lions as the successful team in my city.

Like, think about that, Art. The Lions have long, long been the joke of Detroit, right? Red Wings would be successful. Tigers have had some down years, sure, but they've had some success. The Pistons we talked about have had success in the history of the organization. The Lions are the ones who can't win a playoff game.

And now the Lions are the ones that they're relying on to kind of be the team that's going to give you something to root for. The Red Wings are doing all right. They're 35-16.

What is it? 35-16 and 15. Who, the Red Wings? Oh, am I looking at the right one? You're looking at some other season.

Yeah. They haven't played that many games yet. The Red Wings are 16-15 and 4. They've played 35 games. They've won 16 games.

Yeah, you're right. 16-15 and 4. They've had 4 overtime losses.

And I am going to the game next week. Against the Kings. L.A. Kings, Detroit Red Wings.

Yeah, it's going to be a good game. Yeah, you know, the Red Wings are a 500-midling team right now. So in the city of Detroit right now, who's the team that gives you hope of anything? The Lions.

No one ever thought that would be the case. If you said the Lions would be the saving grace, you'd be like, ah, you're crazy. What's wrong with you? That's impossible. You're telling me the Lions are the team that I'm going to root for and they're going to make the postseason? Come on, you're crazy.

Well, guess what? The world has shifted. Things have changed.

The Lions are the team that will literally give you some satisfaction in the city of Detroit, because every other one of those teams is, well, somewhat embarrassing right now. Sad to see, my friend. Sad to see, but that's exactly what's going on. Oh, it's embarrassing.

It's sad. Detroit 2 and 28, 2 and 29, losers of 28 straight. And what's incredible to me, though, is, you know, Boston came into yesterday's game art. They came in with a record of 14-0 at home. They hadn't lost at home yet.

They were perfect at home. You know what that means? They just completely overlooked Detroit, thinking, we're just going to walk all over them. It's going to be an easy game. Oh, yeah, it's not going to be a contest. And I understand that rationale, considering you're the Boston Celtics. You are a legit, you know, contender to win it all this year.

They legitimately are. I mean, Boston's been really good. They have the best record in basketball right now, 24 and six, and they're 15-0 at home. So they just kind of looked at it and said to themselves, all right, we're more worried about a Toronto Raptors team on Friday night than we are about the Detroit Pistons. And the Raptors aren't that good.

They're 12 and 18. And they completely overlooked the Pistons because that's a team that had lost 27. Imagine if you're the Boston Celtics. You're playing at home at TD, and you lose, and you're the team that Detroit snaps its streak on.

Imagine if that had happened. So are they going to get better ratings now? I mean, when they play the Raptors, is everybody going to be tuning in to watch the game to see if they lose?

Isn't that something? People are going to watch your games not to see if you win and not to cheer you, not to see if you lose. Yeah, they're rooting to see if you're going to lose. Like, people are watching because they want to be a part of history.

And we're not talking the good kind of history here. Are people making flights and trying to get tickets to that game now? You know what? We should look up during the break. We should definitely look up and to see what ticket prices are right now. Are they higher for this upcoming game because people are going to want to be in attendance to watch the team lose, or are tickets going to be cheaper because, well, no one's going to these games because, well, they can't win a game? I'm going to say before even looking here, Art, and we're going to check again during the break, I'm going to say ticket prices are actually higher now. I agree with you. I think ticket prices are going to be slightly higher because people want to be there to witness the possibility of history happening. You agree?

Oh, yeah. I'm looking at it right now. Oh, boy, I can't wait to hear what it says. What exactly are tickets going for? Like, what exactly are tickets going for? How much are you paying to see the Detroit Pistons set an NBA record for futility? Like, what's that worth to you, right?

Like, you have to think to yourself, like, what's it worth to you to see a team lose their 29th game in a row to make history that one day you can sit there and you can say to your grandkids, I was there when the Pistons lost their 29th straight game. I was in attendance. Here is the ticket. You don't get stubs anymore. In fact, you don't even get tickets a lot of times. Yeah, it's on your phone. It's on your phone, which I hate, by the way.

I dislike that too. I like the physical tickets. And I think some years, like I think it was last year, a guy found that he had a ticket unused to Michael Jordan's debut game or something like that in Chicago. Wow.

And he couldn't go for some reason and he still had the ticket and it was in great shape and he sold it for a boatload of money. No way. Yeah, yeah, we gotta look that up too. But that happened. So look, it happens. Son, I was there for the Pistons 29th straight loss. All right, we're gonna find out what's going on. I had floor seats.

I had floor seats. I got him in the secondary market and overpaid. National NBA reporter for The Athletic, Mike Vorkanov is gonna join us next. Give us his thoughts. Man, what's going on in Detroit? I'm Dan Schwartzman. It is a Friday. Rich Eisen with a well-deserved few days off. I'll be back on Monday as well for the New Year's Day edition of the show.

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Learn more at discover.com slash credit card. Limitations apply. 20 past the hour, it's hour number two of the Rich Eisen Show. Dan Schwartzman in for Rich on this Friday talking Detroit Pistons. 28 straight losses tying the Philadelphia 76ers NBA record for futility. They go for 29 Saturday versus the Toronto Raptors. And we have found out, haven't we, Art Martinez, that tickets are actually higher priced for that game. So people want to go see history potentially made. They're there to watch a team lose, as pathetic as that sounds. Yes, I would go if I could.

Again, you tell the grandkids about it. I was there to see the Pistons lose their 29th game in a row to set a record. We got to get more into this. National NBA reporter for the athletic Mike Vorkanov joining us here. And Mike, happy new year. I have to bring this up because the Sixers, at least when they set the original record for futility, were trying to lose games. It was tank Adelphia. What's the excuse for Detroit? You know, there is decent little talent there at Cade Cunningham.

They have an established coach with Monty Williams. What the heck is going on, Mike? Yeah, I'm not sure there is an excuse right now.

It's just very, very, very good. I did. I throw enough varies in there. Very bad type of situation. Yeah. When you lose twenty eight straight, there's there's no high end of how many varies you can throw in there. No, I mean, they're obviously trying to get better from last year. That's kind of been their build. They hire Monty Williams, pay him a lot of money. Right. And now that those Sixers were kind of trying to tank to the top, these pistons were just trying to get better and has failed miserably.

How much of it do you put on Monty Williams? I mean, sure, some right when you lose twenty eight straight games, it's not as if the coach is blameless, but it's not as if he's gotten a great roster, he's got injuries. I think there's plenty to go around in terms of the roster management, the the roster construction, obviously the coaching as well on top of that.

But it's it's hard to split up a lot of blame in this situation because when when there's some something that this bad twenty eight straight losses, two and twenty nine, there's just so much to go around that you can't just keep it on one person alone. And there was some hope, you know, they start the season off the one point loss to Miami. They win their next two.

It's like, OK, they're not going to be terrible, right? Like, you know, maybe borderline playoffs. And then literally it's been two months.

Yesterday was exactly two months. Since a Pistons fan saw them win a game and they almost had it. Clearly, the Celtics were sleeping and they were overlooking Detroit. They were 14 at home at NO and no at home down 21 at one point.

Mike, there was hope, right? The Christmas miracle that Detroit could could end that streak and somehow Boston woke up. They win it at overtime.

I it's stunning to me. That's where we're at right now with this team. But what's happened is, Mike, it's also kind of masked to other teams that are just not very good right now.

San Antonio, they, of course, have Wembamiana. There's a future there. What's Washington's deal? Is that just the beginning of a terribly long rebuild potentially?

Yeah, I mean, it definitely looks like it. You know, the Spurs have Wendy, right? So they have their anchor player, although they've been pretty bad themselves.

They were four and twenty four before they won last night. But Washington is I mean, this just looks like a multiyear rebuild for them. You know, their best players are guys like Jordan Poole and Kyle Kuzma.

And I you know, those are not kind of anchor players that you can move forward with when you eventually want to be a good team. Bilal Koulibaly, their first round pick, is really young. I think he's 19 and was one of the younger players in the draft.

And he was seen as more of a developmental type of player when he was drafted. And I think they're thinking for the long haul, which is something Washington has not done in a very long time. And it's going to take a lot, I think, to rebuild that roster and to get that organization in the right place to be competitive. And, you know, the funny thing is or I don't know, funny is the right word, but they'll probably have a high pick in this year's draft, too. And this year is not seen as a very good draft at the top. So it might take a few years to get things right there.

You know, I think funny is a good word. And here's why. You know, the NBA out of any other league has shown that in one off season you can go from the toilet to the penthouse, you know, in terms of how much cap room you have, in terms of how sexy you are in the eyes of a free agent. And I have to tell you, you know, Detroit's not exactly a sexy city. I love Washington, D.C., personally, but you don't hear people say, I want to go play in Washington and San Antonio, of course, isn't either. So, you know, take San Antonio out because, as you said, they have that building block superstar in Wembley.

But Washington and Detroit, if you're a fan of one of those teams, I mean, what are we looking at, three to five years of darkness? Yeah, but I think that way of that way of building a team isn't really doable anymore. We don't see the best players at free agency anymore. So getting a lot of cap room doesn't buy you as much as it used to. And so you're not going to be able to rebuild yourself overnight through free agency to become like a great team. We saw Houston do something like it this offseason, right? They signed Fred Van Vliet, Dylan Brooks, a little other a few other free agents around the margins. And it helped them get a lot better, too. But, you know, a lot better meant being one of the worst teams in the league last year to now being, I think, are 15 and 14 this morning.

So just a little bit over 500. So it's not as if you're going to sign a star free agent and all of a sudden be, you know, one of the best teams in the conference and just in one one summer. So I think there are different approaches that teams have to take. Now you have to go through the trade, which means obviously giving up a lot.

If you want to get something really good. And, you know, it's just, I think, more difficult to turn it around overnight unless you're a young team that finds the accelerator really quickly, like the Thunder have. Chat with Mike Vorkanov from the National NBA Reporter for the Athletic here on the Rich Eisen Show.

Dan Schwartzman in for Rich. Are you a believer in the Minnesota Timbrels, what they've been able to do, the 23 and seven right now? Yeah, I think they're really good. The talent is finally coming together for them in a way they didn't last year.

And you see some of the underlying metrics are pretty good. I think they have, you know, the second best point differential in the West. And they have a really good lead guard with Anthony Edwards.

Right. Cat is a very good offensive player. Rudy Gobert is back to being one of the best defensive players in the league. And they have guys like Jalen McDaniel's and Mike Conley, who are nice complementary players. I think that's a good team. I mean, we'll see how it works in the playoffs, right?

That's always a tell. And we haven't seen that yet with Minnesota. So there's a sense of like, we'll see, we'll believe it when we see it. But I think there's something there that can make them competitive, get to the second round, maybe, who knows, make a third third round appearance in the Western Conference finals potentially.

But I think the pieces are there. One fun thing, we're not even halfway through the season, of course, is the MVP talk, right? It's been you know, we've watched obviously two of the last three years. It's been Nicola Jokic and rightfully so. He's been tremendous. We saw Joel Embiid last year get it. He's been even better this year.

Luke has done amazing things right now, if if, you know, and I think it's really a competition when you look at these big, big names that are all putting up big numbers. Who's been the best player so far in the league? For me, it's Joel Embiid. You know, I thought Nicole Jokic should have won the award last year. But Joel Embiid won it and he was a good option, too. But I think this year he's far and away the MVP. Really?

Like far and away? To me, I mean, the average like the score, the points, obviously, with thirty five points per game, he's the first seven footer. Your average thirty five emotions will Chamberlain like in 60 years. That's just incredible.

I don't even know how to how to capture that. That's crazy. You know, the Sixers are pretty good this year, too, despite losing James Harden. What do they have? Like the third or fourth best record in the Eastern Conference? And obviously Tyrese Maxey has gotten a lot better.

But I think indeed, as you know, he's a he's a part of that. And why they've improved, why he's improved rather. I just think, you know, in terms of other contenders, you know, Jokic is obviously still great, but he hasn't had quite the like highest echelon Jokic season.

I think Dontic is good. But I think the Mavericks just aren't as good as a team. You know, Giannis is very good. But, you know, he's benefiting from having game lower there.

And some games game is the leading score. And so there's just like a little less on his plate, even though he's averaging 32 and 10 and like six assists or something crazy like that. Yeah.

Yeah. So don't get me wrong. It's not as if it's like he's been bad or anything. But I just think this year to me, Embiid is the clear MVP favorite. I think the analytics like him as well. And so I thought that Jokic should have won it last year, although I saw the case for Embiid. But I think Embiid is the is the favorite this year. I think, you know, by the end of season, we'll see guys like Shay Gilgeous Alexander in the conversation as well. And it should be a fun MVP award. I mean, we're only still like, what, a third of the way into the season.

Yeah, a little over a third. I'll give you another name. And he's not going to win it. His Pacers are 16 and 14, I believe, on the season.

But, you know, very quietly, Tyrese Halliburton is becoming quite the star there. He not just puts up numbers, but he shoots at a high percentage. You know, he's a guy that's a 50, 40. And, you know, he's not at 90 yet, obviously, for free throw shooting. But he shoots at a high percentage.

He's an incredible facilitator. His passing numbers are great. Low turnovers as well.

Scores a ton. I mean, if he didn't play in Indiana and he played in L.A. or New York or Miami or a bigger market, that's a name we'd probably be talking about a lot more. But how impressed have you been with just his growth and what he's done the last couple of years to build up to really being a superstar?

Yeah, I mean, you don't have to talk and talk me into Tyrese Halliburton. You know, I think the Pacers have been fun this year. He's been great. I think maybe he'll just be really a casualty in the sense that I don't think the Pacers will win enough games.

Right. You still have to reach some kind of games, one threshold, some imaginary threshold to be in the MVP conversation for real. But if they can get to 50 wins, I mean, I think he's very he'd be very deserving of a top five MVP spot. He's playing so well earlier this year, back when they were really rolling that I'd say he was in that top five MVP conversation.

They've kind of, you know, dropped off since then, especially since their in-season tournament run. But if they can get it going again and they finish in the top half of the East, he should definitely get some consideration and get some appreciation for what he's doing this year. There's a little controversy in the NBA. Becky Hammond, who's very well respected, of course, with her own professional career as a player and of course now as a coach as well and doing great with, you know, in the WNBA. But she talked about Jalen Brunson and at his height, he can't be a true 1A.

Do you agree? He's obviously done a lot of good things for the Knicks. He's come in and he's been just a, you know, probably better than anybody thought he'd be. Dallas is kicking himself for not keeping him. But can he be a 1A regardless of his height in your book?

Uh, yeah, I mean, probably. I think, you know, like historically, we haven't seen players that size be the very best player on the title contender, right? You know, Isaiah Thomas is probably the only one that comes to mind.

Even Steph Curry is 6'3", although he's slight. Um, so he's a little bit bigger than Jalen Brunson and his game is totally different, obviously. But there's no reason that, you know, Jalen Brunson can't be the best player on the team that like gets to the Eastern Conference Finals. The Knicks almost did it last year. I think it's so much as dependent as well on who's around him and what kind of team is around them, right?

It's not as if, uh, he's going to be taking that team to the finals himself. There are so few players that can do that, right? That's really just a handful of players altogether. Uh, that's the, you know, that goes beyond being like a one a, that's just the guy who can carry a team. And there's really only what, four or five of those guys in the league at a time.

Who can do that? And I don't think Jalen Brunson's in that conversation, but I can definitely see him being the best player on a team that gets to the Eastern Conference Finals or something like that. If you build something cohesive around them and, uh, makes up for his, uh, you know, for his, for his frailties or for the things he doesn't do well. I don't think it's really that controversial that, you know, bigger players, bigger on the ball type of players are better options, right? We've seen that historically within the NBA, but, uh, there's no reason that he can't be an outlier for it. Yeah, no, agreed.

Absolutely. And he's certainly showed that you look at his body type, the way he plays, you don't think he's going to do what he does, and then he does. And he's, you know, I watched a lot of Knicks games and he has had really been a tremendous player the last year and a half with the Knicks.

Mike Voronikoff here, national NBA reporter for the athletic joining us. What do you do with Draymond Green? He is who he is. You know, they can indefinitely suspend and he could talk to, uh, experts and shrinks and whatever the fact is, this is the player he is. He's going to have that moniker of being a dirty player. You can't change who he is, but if you're the NBA, you're trying to send him a message with this indefinite suspension, it's going to happen again at some point.

What needs to happen with Draymond Green moving forward? I really don't know. Uh, like truly, I don't know. I mean, uh, if he's going to do it again, and obviously this is something that the NBA and the wars are trying to cut off to right with this current suspension, um, you know, it becomes kind of a danger to others on the floor with the way that he's playing and kind of just the, uh, the violence that he's played with, you know, I think you just, you hope for now that he can come back, change that whether that's possible or not. I don't really know either. Um, we've seen players who can kind of continue to make these mistakes over the course of their career.

Um, I don't know. I, I think it's truly one of the, the kind of insurmountable types of things to get over right now for the warriors and for the league, how to handle it. Because usually what we have is, uh, when someone keeps making the same mistake over and over like this, you, you see kind of an increasing set of suspensions, right? And the NBA has chosen this time to, instead of like go off of a penalty schedule to just say, he's out indefinitely until he can get himself in the right place, but I don't know how you can decide or figure out when he's in the right place, because that's kind of a qualitative type of answer and, you know, the NBA will consult the warriors and I'll consult the PA and, and the, you know, the health professionals that he's working with, but I don't know if you can ever really be truly sure, uh, that he'll be good to go. And when he is coming back, that he'll be in a place where he won't do this again.

But you know, Mike, you know, we talked about it a little bit here. It's a style that he plays with. It's the chip on the shoulder that he plays with. And maybe this is why he's been such an effective player and it's also a shortfall, but we've seen in football guys that are considered dirty players. They don't change the way they play.

Right. Rick Mahor never changed the way he played per se. That's just the way he played. And I find it interesting that the league thinks or hopes or, you know, pie in the sky that with this and counseling, he's going to be different. I think the reason Draymond Green could be a second round pick and have the career he's had is because of the way he plays. And if you're a warriors fan, you'll love him. You love having him on your team, but every other fan base of other teams don't like him, of course, until he comes and joins your team. So at this point, I think you just got to put up with it and say, I hope he doesn't hurt somebody, but if we're going to allow him to play, we have to kind of expect something to happen because he's not going to show up after 12 years and tomorrow become a goody two shoes out there. And that to me is a big concern, Mike. Yeah.

And I get that. And I think he's always played with that kind of chip on the shoulder. As you said, it hasn't always meant that he'd be out there injuring other players, right. Or potentially injuring other players. I think there's other players who play with the chip on their shoulder that they'll haven't gone as far as Draymond has. Um, it becomes an issue for the warriors because every time this happens, he misses more games. Right. You know, that means they're without one of their best players.

And Draymond is still, is a really, really good basketball player too. And so it's in their best interest to get this fixed or figured out as well. Right. They, if they want to make a run in the playoffs, if they want to make the playoffs, they need them on the court. Um, you know, and so you have to figure out a way and you have to figure out a way to, you know, carry that chip on the shoulder to play with the aggression and that he does, but also in a way that it doesn't like get him thrown out every game or every fifth game, whatever, you know, the average has been this year.

Right. Uh, and he had been able to manage it for a large portion of his career. Um, he just hasn't been able to do that the last few years. The last question, I want to stay with the golden state warriors here. Steve Kerr has been an amazing coach there and his message has reverberated with the team.

Is it getting stale and it always happens. The Yankees had that with Joe Torrey, of course, we've seen other instances as well, but they're not as successful anymore. Right. Guys are getting older.

They're still good names on that roster. Guys playing at a high level is maybe, you know, the, they're not going to fire Steve Kerr anytime soon. It'll be up to him, I think. But if you're Steve Kerr, do you start to look around and say, okay, maybe it's time for a new challenge. It's getting a little stale.

Yeah, I don't know. How much it is, uh, getting stale as much as them getting older, um, can be like that always seems like the best answers to these things. Clay is going to be 34 this year. Steph, I think he's 35 already, right?

Draymond is somewhere in his early to mid thirties. Um, they don't have Andre Iguodala anymore, right? Sean Livingston, Andrew Bogut, although guys from the early part of the dynasty, Kevin Durant has gone and they just haven't been able to replace the talent.

I think that's a good thing. And they just haven't been able to replace the talent, I think to me, that's kind of the logical answers. Guys are getting older.

There's a little bit of slippage or a lot of slippage, depending on who you look at. And it's hard to replace that if you can't bring more talent in and they haven't been able to do that because their lottery picks haven't worked out. And so I think no matter how good the message is, if the players aren't as good in this point in their career, I, you can't, you can't make up for that. Yeah. I think Weissman, uh, not panning out as a number two pick really hurt him. Yeah. I think they kind of thought with that pick, yeah.

Yeah. I mean, the Kuminga draft, when they could have had Franz Wagner, obviously the, you know, Moses Moody, you know, has been nice and it has worked out at times, but he hasn't been a consistent player for them. So, you know, if they could have nailed some of those lottery picks, this looks a lot different and you don't worry as much about the slippage for clay Thompson and, uh, for Draymond Green or, you know, or Andrew Wiggins, even I think Steph is still amazing. So I don't think you're looking at him, but like everyone else around them just can't maintain their level of excellence that they had for such a long time. No question.

They could have had the second act if the young players had panned out and for Steve Kerr, kind of that next group to start training, to continue a dynasty there in San Francisco, Mike Vornikov appreciate you hopping on happy new year, by the way, amazingly, we're turning the calendar coming up this weekend, a national NBA reporter at the athletic Mike appreciate the time. Hey, thanks for having me. Have a great 2024. Hopefully same to you as well, man. Awesome stuff there.

Thank you. Uh, Steph, you know, Steph Curry still putting a points playing at a high level but the Draymond Green situation, clay Thompson, young players not working out. If you're Steve Kerr, do you look to potentially jump ship to a better opportunity future wise, if there is one, or do you kind of sync with the ship, go down with it as the captain, we're going to debate that next Dan Schwartzman on a Friday, final Friday of calendar year, 2023 final Friday, of course, of the, actually the final show of 2023 for the rich eyes and show we continue next Dan Schwartzman for rich, the rich eyes and show with so take two for moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, you could show off your skin again and you know what that means each day as a tick to inhibitor. So tick two is the only one staley pill of its kind for adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, ask your dermatologist about so tick to today and learn more at so clearly you.com that's so clearly you.com so tick to decrev a sit nib is a prescription treatment for adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis who may benefit from systemic therapy or photo therapy. Don't take, if you're allergic to so tick to serious reactions can occur before treatment, get checked for infections, including tuberculosis. So tick to can lower your ability to fight infections.

Don't start. If you have one serious infections, cancers, including lymphoma, muscle problems, and changes in certain labs have occurred. Tell your doctor, if you have a history of these events, or if you have an infection or symptoms like fever, sweats, chills, muscle aches, or cough, or if you have history of hepatitis B or C liver or kidney problems, high triglycerides, or had a vaccine or plan to so tick to inhibits tick to, which is part of the Jack family people 50 and older with heart disease risk factors who use a Jack inhibitor are at increased risk for certain side effects. Sometimes fatal it's unknown. So tick to has the same risks as Jack inhibitors call 1-888-S O T Y K T U.

To learn more, I didn't ask to be thrown in the streets, but I did ask for help. And covenant house was there for me for these kids who didn't ask to be put in this unthinkable situation, covenant house is there to learn more, go to safeplacetosleep.org today with so tick to for moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. You could show off your skin again, and you know what that means each day as a tick to inhibitor, so tick to is the only once daily pill of its kind for adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, ask your dermatologist about so tick to today and learn more at so clearly you.com that's so clearly you.com so tick to decrevacitinib is a prescription treatment for adults with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis who may benefit from systemic therapy or photo therapy. Don't take if you're allergic to so tick to serious reactions can occur before treatment get checked for infections including tuberculosis so tick to can lower your ability to fight infections don't start if you have one serious infections cancers including lymphoma muscle problems and changes in certain labs have occurred.

Tell your doctor if you have a history of these events or if you have an infection or symptoms like fever, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cough, or if you have history of hepatitis B or C liver or kidney problems, high triglycerides or had a vaccine or plan to so tick to inhibits tick to which is part of the jack family people 50 and older with heart disease risk factors who use a jack inhibitor are at increased risk for certain side effects sometimes fatal it's unknown if so tick to has the same risks as jack inhibitors call 1-888-S-O-T-Y-K-T-U to learn more I didn't ask to be thrown in the streets but I did ask for help and Covenant House was there for me for these kids who didn't ask to be put in this unthinkable situation Covenant House is there to learn more go to safeplacetosleep.org today The Rich Eisen Show on a Friday, Dan Schwartzman in for Rich. Steve Kerr what do you do at this point? They're kind of running in place there with the Golden State Warriors. Team struggling they're 15 and 16 right now. He's had a tremendous career no one's gonna say he hasn't and Steve Kerr's won a heck of a lot as a player and of course as a head coach he has earned the right to decide his own future if he wants to stick around longer with the Warriors or if he doesn't he's been there since 2014 it's been one heck of a run you know his career coaching record is impressive he's won 473 games he's lost 238 he's won almost 67 percent of his game he wins two-thirds of the games he coaches he's won four NBA championships and he's lost twice okay in the finals I mean that's that's unbelievable that's incredible success 10 years to win four times and to make the finals two other occasions it's a dynasty but since 2019 they've won a championship but they've also missed the playoffs twice and that's a lot of it's also you know injury to players last year though they went 44 and 38 lost in the conference semifinals this year they're obviously struggling at 15 and 16 guys aren't getting any younger no Steph Curry looks like he deserves to be carded at the movie theater but he's 35 years old right now Klay Thompson is 33 years old and he's been banged up he's missed time you can't count on him to give you a full season anymore Draymond Green is indefinitely suspended because he can't stay out of trouble and by the way he's also 33th a lot of miles because here's the other thing we're not looking at okay it's not just that they've been in the league a long time because a lot of guys come to the NBA now while still a teenager one and done whatever it may be even two and done a lot of guys come at 19 years old 20 years old so if you're 33 you've potentially already played 13 14 years in this league people forget Kobe Bryant started to go down you know downhill in terms of his play on the court and being able to stay healthy at an age where you're like well he's 31 he's 35 but then you forget he came into league at 17 that's why Lebron's amazing it's that Lebron's been the NBA since he's 18 and he doesn't seem to age but physically he has aged in terms of his actual age so the Golden State Warriors are not a young team at this point and because of the success they've had they've played so many games in the postseason as well since Steve Kerr has gotten there or listen to this statistic since Steve Kerr has gotten to Golden State in 2014 2015 being his first year they have played 140 playoff games that is almost two more years of miles on the legs knees and bodies of those star players and it definitely takes a toll absolutely yes the Lakers you know they beat up the Warriors last year in the playoffs they did because you know you get physical with them at this point that makes a difference because you're talking about guys that have a ton of miles a ton of miles on them and that's because of the success they've had no one's going to question the greatness of Steph Curry or Klay Thompson if you think Draymond's great fine go right ahead I think he's really good I don't think he's great I people talk about him being a Hall of Famer I don't see it I don't vote him into the Hall of Fame I don't have a vote though people will put him in the Hall of Fame and he may actually get in there you go out and get yourself a Chris Paul he's 38 years old I'm not sure what the point was there clearly the miles have worn on Chris Paul that's an organization that kind of I think was thinking to itself all right let's get a big name let's make one last run at it see if we can do it and that's why they brought in a veteran like Chris Paul at 38 years old but we just talked about in the last segment they just have not drafted well with the lottery picks they've had anytime you are an organization in the midst of a dynasty and you have a bad year because of injuries and that's what happened and you somehow get yourself a high lottery pick and the Warriors had the second pick in the draft you're thinking to yourself we land a star young player he has time to develop right because he's not going to be looked at as a focal point of the team when you still have Steph Curry, Klay Thompson back from injury, Draymond Green, guys like that Kevin Durant whatever when he was there and this guy can develop and then next thing you know we can allow one of the high-priced guys to go or if a guy gets injured we have this guy who's still relatively cheap he's on a rookie deal and he takes the reins and then once Steph Curry decides he's had enough we go to Joe Schmoe being the next guy and he's a superstar right it's like Brett Favre to Aaron Rodgers you have a succession plan you have the talent waiting and boom there you are David Robinson to Tim Duncan Duncan with years in between of course to Wembe and that's what they thought they could do Weisman was that impressive player and five-star recruit out of high school goes to Memphis has issues there with eligibility but a ton of talent he's not even there in Golden State anymore he hasn't worked out he's in Detroit and that's obviously not working out so well and he's part of a 28 straight loss team but if you're Steve Curry you want to hang around at some point this is going to become a rebuild right and while no one's going to take away four rings that you've won as a coach and no one's going to take away your hall of fame candidacy as a coach do you really want to stick around as your star players age without young guys to kind of be the next group you know what I'm saying like there is no young talent that you're going to say it's worth sticking around for Greg Popovich is sticking around why because he's got Wembe if you have Wembe there and he's a star he's going to be a superstar you see it when he's out there you put a little bit more meat on his bones he is a star he's a superstar in the making he is what you call a unicorn he is but Steve Kerr doesn't have a Wembe to get excited about for the future look Greg Popovich if he doesn't have Wembe maybe does retire because there's nobody there that you can you know bank on and say I want to continue coaching this team because I can see that I can succeed when Andy Reid got Patrick Mahomes that extended his coaching career by years and it keeps him in Kansas City for years because if you're Andy Reid and all you know how to do is coach and we know that even when he had family problems in Philadelphia with his sons Andy Reid's solace was a little time off from coaching but he was right back at it because that's that's all he knows how to do for Greg you know as long as Patrick Mahomes is there he knows he can win 10 games a year 11 games a year win some more Super Bowls and that's how Popovich views Wembe I get that Kerr doesn't have that option there because his stars are all aging want to get to some baseball talk we're going to do that next in hour three why not these free agents are we going to see some movement where are the big names like Blake Snell gonna go is anybody going to take a chance on Trevor Bower we'll find out Keith law American baseball writer for the athletic he joins us next Dan Schwartzman on a Friday Infra Rich it's the Rich Eisen Show for the real story behind some of wrestling's biggest moments it's Something to Wrestle with Bruce Prichard and Conrad Thompson too 1995 when WCW announces they're going to be live and head to head with Monday Night Raw feels like this would have been something Vince would have kind of laughed off no we did not like them moving to Monday nights there were a lot of hotels they all carried CNN TBS and TNT Vince was convinced Ted Turner had deviously done this deal to get in the hotels and keep us out Something to Wrestle wherever you listen