REShow: Hour 3

Oh my God, you guys are my favorites. This is the Rich Eisen Show. The one and only Rich Eisen. I know what I'm talking about.

That's the headline. The Rich Eisen Show with guest host Dan Schwartzman. OMG. Live from the Rich Eisen Show studio in Los Angeles.

Oh my gosh. And now sitting in for Rich, it's Dan Schwartzman. It is hour number three of the Rich Eisen Show. Dan Schwartzman, for Rich here on Black Friday. Shop, shop till you drop. Enjoy those great TV deals. Did you wait outside of your local Walmart or big box store waiting for those doors to open to run in, push people over, knock them down, punch them in the gut just to get that great TV deal. I cannot wait to watch the news tonight and see the absolute disaster going on around the country when it comes to shoppers.

Like people camping outside of stores. My wife is really good at saying this one saying. Tyler, this is what my wife always says. Time is money, right?

And I get that. So like if you're going to camp out all night to get like $400 off a TV, is it really worth your time being outside in the cold camping outside of a Best Buy to get $400 off a TV? Are we still doing the TV deals though on Black Friday?

Like you can get a TV on Amazon for like $100, you know what I mean? You were right. I actually went about three weeks ago. I had to have my windshield changed. And in the meantime I had to do something for a couple hours so there was like a Best Buy nearby.

And I went. You could buy, like a 65-inch TV is now like $400. You can buy an 85-inch TV for like $1,400. And I have a 55-inch and I have a 65-inch. But like I get TV envy. I think that's a thing. Like you look at other TVs and you're like wow, that would look great on my wall or on my TV stand, right?

Like do you get that too? Am I the only one that has TV envy? Well I think as sports guys too, like what's better than having a huge TV to watch your favorite game on? Like there's nothing, you know? You're absolutely right.

You're correct. So I'm a big fan of the big TV. I have a 55er in my place and I love it. I'm like okay, can I get a little bit bigger here?

Can I get a little bit bigger? Right, because a 55-inch is nothing right now. That's like standard now. It's standard, right. It's standard to the point where you can buy a 55-inch for like $279.

That's what's happened. So again, that brings up the whole point of like the TV envy. And I get serious TV envy. Like I like my TV.

It's fine. And I think if I had a bigger TV for the space I have, it probably wouldn't make sense. Like it would be overkill.

Like you wouldn't actually see it very well. And I'm more of a movie guy. Look, I love sports obviously and I watch a lot of sports, but I'm more of a movie guy. I love movies and I stopped going to the theater for the most part because $20 for a movie is a little ridiculous at times, right? Like am I paying $20 to go see a movie?

Why? I could actually rent it on demand for cheaper than that. And that's what I do, but you want to have that nice big TV to do that because, well, why not, right? You want to have that movie experience and the only difference is your beer is cheaper.

Your popcorn is cheaper. You can pause the movie when you want to go to the bathroom. It's your own bathroom.

There's no line and it's clean. But to have that movie theater experience, you kind of have to have that bigger screen. Like, oh, I want to watch Top Gun Maverick.

Well, you have to watch it on the big screen. It looks amazing, you know? Well, Dan, like you said you're a big movie guy. Did you see Oppenheimer?

Not yet. Oh, okay. Because that's the one I splurged and went to the big IMAX theater and I saw it on the certain projector or whatever and I feel like that was worth it. Yeah, my parents saw that as well. They went to the IMAX to see it and I think they saw Top Gun Maverick, which surprised me.

They're not the Top Gun type, but they went and watched Top Gun Maverick on the big screen. And I think for the flight scenes and things like that, you should see it on that rather than like a 55 or even 65 inch screen. But, if you're talking about like an 85 inch screen, now you're talking, right? Like, now you're talking some serious hardware there. Oh, yeah.

85. I mean, come on, right? 1400 bucks and you start reaching for that credit card like, oh, I might do that. Yeah. But then you got to sell it to the rest of the family. Well, then you got to go sit in the parking lot for an hour, though, too. Well, that's true, but then you have to figure out how you're going to couch this to the wife as to why you bought an 85 inch TV, right? And not to mention, you know, your fifth TV in the home, you know? Right. I mean, that's exactly right.

You don't have a TV in every room, right? You know, I do. The question you always get is, do we really need that, honey? Do we really need that? Right. And I'm like, probably not, but it looks great.

And it didn't cost an arm and a leg. Like, right now, no joke, all right? I'm looking this up as we speak, Tyler. An 85 inch TV. Maybe I'll go to the store. What do you got? You buy, like, the non-name brand made in China for $750.

That's all you need. You buy a Samsung 85 inch. I like Samsung. $898. I mean, come on. I mean. An LG 86 inch screen. $900.

I'm going to have to go hit up some places after the show. I mean, right? I'll get NBA's just thinking about it.

Right? An 85 inch Samsung for less than $900? Get set up for those big college games tomorrow?

I'm in. I mean, you might be watching, leave right now, you might be watching Jets Dolphins on an 85 inch TV for less than $1000. Oh, man.

This isn't America, right? Dude, I am jealous. I know. I'm not going to do it because I have self control.

Atta boy. But I am considering it. But I can't sell this to my wife.

There's no way. Always that aspect. That's scary. Like, honestly, that's scary.

Like, that's more fearful than anything. How you actually sell that to the wife. Hey, hon, guess what? I didn't buy you anything for Black Friday, but I bought us an 86 inch TV. You got us a great deal for the house, I'm telling you. Yeah, great deal.

Now, you know me, I don't like watching a lot of TV, but I just couldn't resist. It doesn't work that way. Right.

You're not going to get away with that. What's the biggest TV you can buy now anyway? Okay, put it this way, an 86 inch LG is, I told you, like $899, right? Yeah, $900 bucks, right. You want to go to an 88 inch LG, which is like top of the line apparently, guess how much an 88 inch signature LG TV is?

If we're talking $900 for the other, maybe, let's say $1,300? $25,000. What? Yeah. Well, they have to get that technology figured out or something, I don't know.

Is that a projector at that point, or is it a... No, I don't know, it's a smart TV. Well, they actually give you a penny off, so they make it sound better. $24,999.99. Or just $1,041 a month for 24 months financing.

Hey, of course you always cancel. I mean, come on, that's a lot of money. And by the way, you get a 97 inch for cheaper.

They have 97 inch TVs now. Unbelievable. All right, we're going to the store, Tyler. Yeah, let's go, I'm ready. Yeah, let's go.

All right. Get some money, we're going to the store, $24,000. Sound good? I'm going to hit up our boy Warren Buffett, we can play the credit card game. Yes, exactly.

Mine might not work, Warren, but yours will. All right, I want to get to this real quick. The NBA season continues after an off day yesterday, and it's this in-season tournament group play. Can you explain this to me? I have no idea what's going on. Like, I honestly, I have no idea what is going on with this. Like, why did the NBA need to add an NBA in-season tournament, and do people actually care? Like, you there as an NBA fan sitting at home, do you actually care that there's an NBA in-season tournament?

I don't. It's a new annual competition according to the NBA. All 30 teams are involved in this. There's a championship at the beginning of December, right? And there's a group play in the knockout round.

But why is this occurring? Like, who honestly cares? I don't. I have no interest in an in-season NBA tournament, and I'm going to venture to guess this isn't going to last very long. Maybe it's a way to make more money for the players. You know what?

Guess what? NBA players make more money than anybody else. A crappy NBA player today makes like 12 million bucks a season, okay?

That's a million dollars a month to sit on a bench. I honestly don't understand this. What is the point of this?

At some point it's overkill. Are you trying to make your league more sexy? But this isn't it. This isn't it. Like, I'm not impressed by this.

This does nothing for me. Now, the NBA kind of lost me regardless the last few years. I think the style of play in the NBA is a joke. Everybody's shooting three-pointers. When a seven-footer comes out of college or high school, and he's preparing for an NBA draft, and the big story is this seven-foot one-inch guy shot 38% from three-point land, that's a problem.

Okay? It's seven-foot one, seven-foot two. You should be playing inside, not shooting three-pointers. Well, Victor Uebemyama can shoot three-pointers.

I don't care. He's seven-four. Put him in the post like tall basketball players should be. Never understood that. So the quality of the game today stinks, right? Every single time somebody drives a lane, whistle blows, foul, guy goes to the line. Every single time.

It's as if officials are anticipating the contact and blowing the whistle, regardless of if there's actual contact or not. See, I was born in 1978. I remember 1980s basketball. I remember Michael Jordan out there on the court. I remember guys being tough on defense.

You don't want to play the bad boys and the Pistons, right? They would knock you around, and they could get away with it. Today, oh my goodness, the guy put a hand on him. Oh, blow the whistle. How many times are you watching an NBA game, and the flow of the game is completely ruined because some guy blows a whistle, right? It absolutely destroys me.

It's very simple. The NBA thinks of all these fancy things to do, like an in-season tournament that frankly no one should care about, and they should get rid of this nonsense after this year and never bring it back. And what they should do is realize that fans are upset watching a league that stinks right now. Play the way it used to be played. Let defenses play defense. Don't call ticky tack penalties. Why is playoff hockey so good? Because they don't call ticky tack penalties in the playoffs, and they let guys play and be physical. That's why the NHL postseason is awesome, much more than the regular season. If the NBA would just allow these guys to play and have less of a threshold in terms of what's a foul and what's not a foul, trust me, we as fans would enjoy it a hell of a lot more than watching a game where every single time a team has the ball offensively, there's the whistle, the guy goes to the line, clock is stopped, waste of our time. Oh, but we're going to make it sexy by putting an in-season tournament.

Woo! You bore me with this nonsense. I'm not watching this nonsense. This isn't soccer, all right? Soccer's got in-season stuff.

You have the international breaks, right? So players can play for their country, for World Cup qualifiers, the World Cup itself. Euro 2024 if you're European. CONCACAF, Americans play in that. The tournament of Americas, the Nations League, things like that. Awesome. The Champions League is an amazing in-season tournament, maybe the best in-season tournament of any sport in the world.

I love the Champions League, Europa League, things like that. Maybe the NBA is trying to emulate that. Guess what?

It ain't working. It's not happening. Kurt Heelan's going to join us. He's with NBCSports.com, of course, covers the NBA.

He'll join us in about 30 minutes. We'll get his take on this in-season tournament. He's a big basketball guy.

He may be the one guy that actually loves this. But am I wrong, Tyler Brewer? Am I wrong that it's not in-season tournaments that'll make the NBA fun for people again? It's the fact of there's no more post-game, no one plays inside anymore, and every single time that somebody drives a lane, they blow the whistle and call a foul, which completely, completely kills the pace of play. Isn't that really the problem with this league?

I think so. I'm not a fan of this tournament. I don't even know what's going on. Like you said, I don't know what's going on.

And why? You don't get a benefit. It's like you get a first-round bye in the playoffs. So we're just trying to generate excitement out of just be cut? I don't know, because the courts are different? Because the jerseys are different?

It seems a little gimmicky. Yeah, play some defense, man. Play some defense? Well, let them play defense. Well, let them, yeah, totally. Yeah, let these guys play defense. Let them hand-check again.

Let them get a body in front of them. Like, honestly, it's like the NFL. You see, the NFL is kind of heading in the direction the NBA went, which is, let's call everything, right? Oh my goodness, the quarterback went down. It must have been a late hit. Oh, he was too vicious.

He put his body weight on the quarterback when he went down. It's gone way too far. Oh, a pass interference. This, I mean, come on, it has gone too far, and it's turning fans off. And the NFL should look at the NBA and realize that's not what the fans want to see.

I mentioned playoff hockey. That's what the fans want to see. Less whistles. Less stoppage in play. Less ridiculous fouls that you look at and you say to yourself, come on, you can't call that. Unless it's blatant or completely hinders the guy's opportunity to score or whatever, don't blow the whistle unless it's something blatant. In the NFL pass interference, unless it's blatant, don't blow the whistle.

Unless it's blatant that the guy has clearly taken a cheap shot on the quarterback or went for his knees, whatever it may be, if it's not blatant, don't blow the whistle. We're sick and tired of seeing that. Unbelievable. All right, I want to get into something here, because I have got a 13-year-old, and she loves all these big top 40 music acts right now, and also, of course, buying sports tickets. It's frustrating when you go out to buy tickets, you wait there, you start clicking, you get in a queue, you get on a waiting list, in the end, you don't actually get tickets, definitely not good tickets when it comes to shows or, of course, sporting events. Now, you don't have to worry when you buy tickets to your next big event. Game time, the fastest and easiest way to buy tickets for all sports, music, comedy, and theater events near you. Killer last minute deals, all in prices, views from your seat as well, and their best price guarantee. Game time takes the guesswork out of buying tickets.

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Visit gametime.co, that's C-O, last minute tickets, lowest price guaranteed. Dan Schwartzman, we're going to break down these college football matchups tomorrow, Michigan, Ohio State. Who do I think is going to win? That's next. It is, of course, the Rich Eisen Show on Black Friday. Still turkey hangovers for some of you, of course, some of you just playing flat out hangovers.

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Limitations apply. And welcome back to the Rich Eisen Show Radio Network, I'm Dan Schwartzman, sitting at the Rich Eisen Show desk, furnished by Grainger. With supplies and solutions for every industry, Grainger has the right product for you.

Call, click Grainger dot com or just stop by. All right, in about 20 minutes, Curt Heelan joins us. He's, of course, the lead NBA writer for NBC Sports. We'll find out his thoughts on this NBA in-season tournament and what truly the league has to do to make the product better. I told you what they have to do.

It's very, very simple. Again, literally, stop tiki-tack fouls and actually play an inside brand of basketball rather than everybody shooting three-pointers. I blame Steph Curry. As great as Steph Curry is, Steph Curry has helped to ruin the game of basketball. Because of Steph Curry and three-point shooting from well beyond the arc, it has ruined the game of basketball.

It has. I know the youngsters love it, but people my age and probably a little younger, even a little younger, definitely older, do not like this style of basketball. It's not our cup of tea. It's not good. It's not fun. It's not something we like to watch.

And that's exactly how you fix the sport. Rivalry Saturday in college football. Ohio State, Michigan, always an incredible rivalry. When you think of the greatest rivalries in all of sports, to me, they're all collegiate, right? NFL rivalries, to me, kind of come and go. A lot of the NFC East rivalries are kind of fun. Cowboys, commanders, Giants, Cowboys, Eagles, Giants, geographically only separated by 90 miles. Okay, that's kind of fun.

That works. But on the other side of it, okay, the other side of it is the college games, college basketball. North Carolina Duke, awesome game, right?

That's always a great one. Two Blue Bloods, amazing. And college football, the Iron Bowl, especially when Auburn, Alabama is usually always good. And if Auburn's good as well, and I think they'll obviously be better with Hugh Freeze over the next few years, that'll be good to get that rivalry back to where it needs to be. Army Navy is classic.

I love Army Navy. I believe it's the only collegiate football game where both entire student bodies are in attendance. I believe that's true.

Oklahoma, Texas. So even though Ryan Day is 11-0 right now, if he loses to Michigan, there is potential that as great as his record has been, unless he still can win a national championship despite having a loss to Michigan this year on the resume, he potentially could be let go. I don't think it happens because I think it's kind of crazy to let go of somebody who has been so widely successful, who's averaging literally 11 wins a year.

If it wasn't for the shortened 2020 COVID year, he would be winning even more games. But you don't survive three straight years losing to the rival. For Jim Harbaugh, he's won the last two after going years without being able to beat Ohio State, and that's added to him staying there. Now, I think he does wear out his welcome again, and potentially that's going to happen this year now with all the scandals surrounding him and stealing the signs and all that.

Potentially that's going to harm him. But overall, he continues beating Ohio State and does so again this year. First of all, if he does, they finish the season undefeated because they're going to win the Big Ten championship because the Big Ten West stinks. All the powers in the East, right? When you have Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State all on the same side of the conference, the other side has nothing. Nebraska's garbage.

All those types of teams are garbage, right? So, Ryan Day's got a lot riding on this one tomorrow, and this one's in Ann Arbor. This one is in Ann Arbor, which means they're not favored to win, right? Because they're going to be on the road.

It's a very tough situation for him to be in because, again, you don't expect a guy to be on a hot seat when he's been that successful. But when it's a different story and people realize that you can't beat that one team, that's why I talked about Penn State, and should James Franklin be on a hot seat because of the fact he can't beat either one of those two teams, it's a different story. So, Michigan is the favorite. They are, what, a three-and-a-half point favorite, I believe it is right now?

About right. I think it's hard to argue against that. It's going to be about defense. Both schools have had great quarterback play from McCord and from McCarthy. They both could run the ball, Henderson and Coram. Marvin Harrison Jr. is a problem for any defense.

He is potentially the best player in college football. Michigan favored by three-and-a-half. It is three-and-a-half.

Okay, good, good. I wonder if that number is going to move. Man, if I was a betting man, and I'm not Tyler because I'm cheap, but if I was a betting man, Michigan three-and-a-half?

You like it? They're running the ball really strong right now. Ah, boy, three-and-a-half sounds kind of big.

You think they're going to beat them three years in a row? Honestly, I'm not a big Ryan Day guy. I've got to be honest with you. I don't think he's that great. He's a tremendous recruiter.

He really is a tremendous recruiter. But the fact that they've won 11 games so far isn't a surprise, right? Look at the schedule they've played. I don't think Notre Dame's that good, and they beat Notre Dame by three. Penn State's okay. They're not bad, and they played, by the way, at the horseshoe, so okay. That was a home game for Ohio State, and they won that by eight. Besides that, they've beaten Indiana, Youngstown State, Western Kentucky, Maryland, Purdue, Wisconsin, Rutgers, Michigan State, Minnesota. They should be 11-0. They're Ohio State.

This is the true test right here. Michigan is the true test on the road, but they need the win. What I'm saying is I don't think whoever wins this game, I don't think Ohio State, if they lose, lose by more than one or two points. I think this is literally a down-to-the-wire, you know, one- or two-point game.

I think three-and-a-half may be a little much. And do you think the loser, as long as it's not a blowout, do they still have a chance for the call to a playoff? That's where I kind of hate the way that this is. Because Oregon-Washington, too, is kind of de facto playing game two. Right, but think about this, all right? So say Michigan wins, Ohio State loses. Michigan will play Iowa in the Big Ten championship game, and they should win, but God forbid they lose, right? So Ohio State sits there at 11-1.

Michigan will be 12-1, having the later loss to Iowa. Listen, you could potentially have two Big Ten teams get in, right? I mean, think about it. You could, because let's play this scenario then, okay? Let's play this scenario, okay. So Georgia wins the SEC therein.

They get one of the four slots. What happens if Oregon beats Washington? Oregon is 11-1, right? Because Washington loses, they'll be 11-1.

Okay, so here's the issue, though, at hand. It'll be a respect issue, right, for the conference. Because you may have Washington at one loss, Oregon at one loss. You could have Michigan and Ohio State both at one losses. Do you take one, you know, do you take... Like, I don't think you could take an Ohio State who doesn't even play in the conference championship game over three teams that do play in their conference championship games. Well, I also think there's an argument to be made that the Pac-12 has been stronger than the Big Ten this year.

There's no question. So why would a one-loss Big Ten team be better than a one-loss Pac-12 team? There's a bias, right?

Yeah, like we talked about earlier. Yeah, there's going to be a bias, right? Look, the Pac-12 shot themselves in the foot with this nonsense. Like, how good of a conference can it be if they aren't even going to be a conference after this year?

Right. But you have Washington against Oregon, right? Arizona has had a quietly good year. Oregon State's quietly been good. But Washington and Oregon may cancel each other out. Because, again, one of them is going to lose in the conference championship game, right? And if they lose in the conference championship game, it's... You know, it's really bad. I mean, there's got to be a better system because, again, we could be looking at Michigan, Washington, and Oregon all having one loss, but those losses occurring... Well, two of those losses, or at least all three teams being in their conference championship game, right? Because Oregon and Washington, one team's got to win, one has to lose. If Oregon wins, Washington gets saddled with a loss.

If Michigan goes into the championship game with a win over Ohio State but they lose to Iowa, they have one loss, but at least they made it to the conference championship game. Unlikely. Unlikely, right. But who knows? I mean, so is the eight-team playoff the fix for this?

You know what I mean? So, like, it's interesting. Yeah, I'm in favor of expanding it anyway. I think, since this discussion, it's got to be. Because it's like there's too many teams that deserve a chance that are going to be boxed out. Yeah, there is.

You're absolutely right. There's too many good teams in this year. Some years it does end up working itself out, right?

Some years it does end up working itself out where you're like, you know what? Those are clearly the four best teams. This year you can't say that. There's no way you can look at this year and say there's clearly four, you know, these are the four best teams, clearly.

I don't think you can say that, and that I think is going to be the issue here. So, very, very interesting scenario potentially going to happen over the next two weeks of the college football season with conference championship games coming up soon, determining who, in fact, are the four best teams. All right, NBA in-season tournament action. What's the problem with the league?

And is there really a bias from one official against Chris Paul? Lead NBA writer at NBC Sports, Curt Heelan, is going to join us next as we'll be wrapping up another edition of the Rich Eisen Show. I'm Dan Schwartzman filling in for Rich here on Good, well not Good Friday, it is, I mean not a Good Friday, Black Friday.

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Dan Schwartzman in the big boy seat, filling in for Rich. Awesome time as always. A lot of NFL talk. College football conversation as well. Rivalry Saturdays upon us tomorrow. And the NBA in-season tournament action today.

Yippee! And there's the Chris Paul situation. Does one official actually have it out for him, as he says?

Apparently when that official is in charge of his games, he's like 3-17. I don't know. We're going to find out more. A good buddy of mine. Haven't talked to him in a while. The lead NBA writer at NBC Sports, Curt Heelan joins us. And by the way, Curt had a much better Thanksgiving than Jared Goff as well. Curt, long time no speak. Happy Thanksgiving.

How are you? I think most of us had a better Thanksgiving than Goff, didn't we? I did too.

I made a duck and it turned out amazing. Did you? Yeah. I'm sick of turkey.

Yeah. My brother cooks, so we had turkey and ham and kind of the traditional stuff. But I'm with you. I've become more about the sides as I get older. I'm not into the turkey as much.

Let me ask you something, Curt. You said your brother cooks. What do you offer the Thanksgiving dinner? Besides your presence, what do you offer? Okay.

Obviously my charming personality and crap like that. Of course. A couple bottles of wine, but we also brought the appetizers. So I made deviled eggs.

I made a little zucchini pesto quiche things that are little appetizers we do. Okay. Now, Curt, you said I made the deviled eggs.

You did? No. I do most of the cooking in my house. Yeah. With some of this, everybody pitched in. But in that case, I'm more the chef and they're more the sous.

Well, it sounds like a very successful Thanksgiving for you. Now, you got to help me out of here, Curt. Listen, I'm okay with the NBA. They've kind of lost me over the years with the style of play. What the heck is this in-season tournament nonsense? Are you a fan of this? I can't get into it.

What's going on? I'll have to admit, I was on the skeptical side coming into this, but the games have been pretty engaging. And maybe it's just our reptilian brain flipping by going, ooh, different court. This must be important. I hate to think it's that simple, but maybe that's part of it.

But the games have been a little more physical, a little more engaging. And it's interesting because my reaction in general was, yeah, it's $500,000 to the winning team. I'm like, if you're one of the guys who can actually decide an NBA game, if you're Lebron James and Steph Curry's of the world, is that moving you? And I'll just say we said that to a star player.

It was off the record, so I'm not going to name a name. Star player, there was a couple of us talking, and his reaction was, I think that's half a million dollars. Fair point.

It's still a lot of money. And if you make that final four, you go to Vegas. The players seem open to it and into it. And since it's part of the regular season, everybody's kind of taking it. So I've got to say, I've been more into it than I expected, but I'm still not sure if it's going to... Like you said, you're not catching on.

A lot of my friends are. I'm getting more like, what the heck is this question than people kind of buying in yet? Now, was this done, Kurt, to fix the league, to get fans reinvigorated? Was that the reasoning behind this?

Well, the reason was money. They're in the middle of negotiating a new television deal, rights deal, and like, hey, if we can pump up, this is the slow time of year. As you discussed on your shows, you guys are talking NFL and college football right now and upcoming bowl games. Most fans are not really focused on the NBA. This was an attempt to maybe get something that they could sell. Hey, it's the NBA in-season tournament exclusively on Amazon Prime or whatever, but also something that they... bumps up a little interest in their slow part of the season because the old adage of not paying attention until Christmas has some truth to it for fans. So that's really the goal, is something that gets more people watching and makes more money. And they conveniently decided to do this right as they were negotiating a new TV deal. We have NBA writer at NBC Sports, Kurt Heilin, joining us here on the Rich Eisen Show, Dan Schwartzman in for Rich on this Black Friday. Here's my fix for this league, all right?

Tell me if this is correct. I think it's very simple and they're trying to overcomplicate things. Less foul calling, none of this Tiki-Tak nonsense. Let these guys play a little bit. If it's a blatant foul, call it.

If it's a little hand-checky, don't call it. And two, let guys play inside. I don't need to see a 7-foot-4 guy shooting three-pointers.

I enjoyed watching actual centers play center. Fix those two, the league wins me back. Kurt, am I crazy?

Is that all it takes? I don't... I think the first part would be interesting. I would love to see... It's like when you watch, and we'll all do it next summer during the Olympics, when you watch international basketball, when you watch FIBA basketball, they just let more go. I mean, they let guys be more physical. I think that would be... I think that would bring back something to the NBA.

I think the pendulum may... In the effort to get offenses and allow Steph Curry to cook on the perimeter and things, you know, Damian Lillard and guys we'd like to see. But I think that it's gone so far, like you said, that it's maybe a little too far. I would love to see a little more physicality in the game. And if you allow a little more physicality, and they do inside, frankly, like it's more on the perimeter, then you would, I think, get more of those inside games. But I got to tell you, 7-foot-4 guys shooting threes or in Chet Holmgren's case, he's only 7-foot-1, but those guys kind of stepping out and shooting threes, man, that floor spacing thing is just going to be the way of the NBA now.

Like, you just... The only bigs who are going to score inside are the truly elite, Embiid, Jokic kind of guys, the old-school post-up guys. It's just not an efficient enough play in today's NBA. You mentioned Jokic, and I love watching him play because I'm watching this guy with the dad bod, doesn't seem very athletic, and I'm watching going, wait a minute, how is he up to 30 points, 10 rebounds, and 13 assists? And then I realize he's probably the greatest big man passer we've ever seen. You know, when we watch this guy play, all right, it's not sexy, let's get that out of the way, but am I watching an all-time great? Am I watching a guy when it's all said and done, we're going to say, you know what, this guy's up there as a potential top 10, top 15 player of all time.

Very possibly. Let's put it this way, I think when he's done, we're talking about him in the top five center conversation with, you know, assuming he can win another championship and keep this up over a course of five, seven years, five years or so, we're going to mention him with Hakeem, and maybe not Shaq, I don't know where you want to go with where you put what big men on what tiers, but he's at least in the conference with Wilt, he's got to be in this conversation because he's just been, he just does everything so well on offense, it's so much fun to watch, and it's so effortless, and he's just, it's not just the skill set, although it's his touch and his all that, it's high IQ basketball, it's fun to watch, and it's fun to watch guys know that if they move off of him, hey, if I cut, I'm going to get the ball, I'm going to get opportunities to submit. Everybody on the floor is flying around because of the energy that brings, so yeah, he's going to go down as, I think honestly, one of the great centers to ever play the game, and frankly, we're not going to just say the best passing big man of all time, I think he's going to go down as one of the great passers the game has ever seen, flat out.

No, I agree with you, it's incredible you watch him, you never know where he's going with the ball, where his eyes are, he's as smart a player as we've probably ever seen. I want to talk about another smart player, Chris Paul, another Hall of Famer, when it's all said and done, got into it with Scott Foster, the official, to where Paul came out and said, this is personal, your thoughts on that whole situation, is he overblown yet or is there a point? No, there's clearly a thing there, it's clearly personal, he actually, this is the first time he said, I guess back when he was with the Clippers, there was a meeting with Scott Foster and him and Doc Rivers and people from the league and whatever trying to smooth out whatever this animus is, but it's, there's a lot of Scott Foster stepping over, this is like a two-way thing to me, both of them are kind of stepping over the line, both of them just go into this expecting things to be bad so they are bad, I think a whole lot of listeners probably had that yesterday at Thanksgiving with their families, you know it's going to be bad and stuff just triggers you, right? And so I think there's that, but I don't, we're just at the point, and I get why the NBA doesn't want to do this, if it admits that Scott Foster can't cover, if just Scott Foster does no more Chris Paul games, then they're admitting he can't be unbiased, and the league isn't about to do that with, by a guy who's considered one of their top-rated officials, whatever fans think of him, he's highly regarded by the people who, you know, Monty McCutcheon and the people who judge these things, they can't go there, they kind of have to go there, don't they?

Like this has just gotten so nasty and so personal and become such a thing that I just, I think that has to be the exception to this rule, like they just, they should not be on the same court together, because it does show up in the numbers, like Chris Paul not only got tossed, but I mean the playoff record of games he's done with and without Scott Foster is stark. The Boston Celtics 12-3, that's an NBA best record of 12-3, they're a game better than Minnesota, that's played one less, the Celtics the best team in the league right now? Yes, yeah, they are, and they, I mean Denver will be back too close to setting the bar, they're without Jamal Murray right now, they kind of got an I think 4-4 without him, and that's, they're just not the same team without him there, but to me, I wasn't sure that this Chris Staps were saying, boy is that really going to fly, you're giving up some culture there with getting rid of Marcus Smart, but their rim protection with, you kind of forget, of course I guess 7-3 can block some shots man, like their rim protection has been good with him, and their offense, while still a bit clunky at points, like they're still kind of figuring it out, Jalen Brown hasn't completely found his rhythm, the spacing isn't, they're going to figure it out better, and they're already good on that end, the spacing is incredible, because he can just, because Portendus just pops out, and same with Orford, like you've got to respect those guys outside, and it just opens up driving lanes, so right now, I think they're the best team in the NBA, I think they're the bar, and frankly, after watching Milwaukee so far, I'm not sure Milwaukee can catch them, like maybe I'm wrong, but this could, we could be in Boston come June for the finals.

Alright, real quick here, we have about a minute to go. Kurt, give me a team that's not right now at the top with 11 or 10 wins, but a team that you're looking at that's kind of lurking that you think if things go their way, could end up being somewhat scary as the season goes along. Off the top of my head, I'll tell you who I love to watch, and I think could be better if they get their defense rolling, I love Indiana. Indiana Pacers are so much fun to watch, they're playing fast, Tyrese Halliburton is having a breakout season, the problem right now is they're like best offense in the league by a long shot, they're last, you know what, they're last year's Sacramento Kings.

Defense is awful, offense is great, entertaining attack to watch, look like a playoff team in the East, and if the defense comes around a little bit around Myles Turner and Bruce Brown, then they become a tough out. Yeah, that's a good one, Indiana Pacers. Alright, our buddy Kurt Heelan, lead NBA writer at NBC Sports, Kurt, happy Thanksgiving, happy holidays, always a pleasure, my friend.

Take care of yourself, Dad, I'll talk to you soon, buddy. Awesome stuff, Kurt Heelan, always the best, read his stuff on NBCSports.com. It's, yeah, you know, I guess if you're a big NBA guy, the in-season tournament has its perks to watch, kind of understand it, but I think the average fan who's what they're probably trying to relate to doesn't care, but he made the point, they're in the midst of contract negotiations for the next TV deal, more basketball means more games, which means more money, which means more revenue, and the NBA's raking in the loot to where players are signing contracts for $60 million a year. $60 million a year, no joke, Giannis is making like 60, Jalen, what is it, Jalen Brown's making like 60 million a year.

Incredible money when you think about how much is being thrown around in this league. All right, we are out of time, it's been a lot of fun, 10 minutes for depression for me when kickoff occurs, Jets and Dolphins on Black Friday. I want to thank Jason Cole, Matt Fortuna, and Kurt Heelan for taking the time today to join us on the show. Tyler Brewer, great job producing it, Matt Higdon, awesome job engineering this show.

It's fun as always, I'm Dan Schwartzman, again, Happy Thanksgiving, it's fun filling in for Rich here on The Rich Eisen Show, take care. For decades, Rolling Stone has set the bar for entertainment publications. Today, Rolling Stone Music Now takes over in podcast form. We have Michael Azerrad, who was Nirvana's very first biographer. I'm not sure how many people realize how many of the best songs on In utero were written way beforehand. To be fair to Kurt, he was also a new father, there was a lot of stuff distracting him, it wasn't just drugs, although that was certainly a major factor. Rolling Stone Music Now, wherever you listen.