What the Football with Suzy Shuster and Amy Trask: 11 with Steve Mariucci

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Learn more at discover.com slash credit card. Limitations apply. Welcome to this Thanksgiving week edition of What the Football.

Suzy and Amy with you again. This is brought to you by GameTime, the fast and easy way to buy tickets for all the sports, music, comedy, and theater events near you. GameTime's got killer last minute deals all in prices.

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Lowest price guaranteed. We have the great Steve Mariucci joining us up ahead. We're going to talk of all things John Madden because you have your Madden connection. I have my Madden connection and God knows that few people knew John Madden as well as Steve Mariucci so I can't wait to have him on here. I am thrilled to have Steve on for so many reasons and we're going to have to discuss whether he's going to try to burst through that screen and steal my seat here too. Which he might.

I'll explain that to you later. He used to read Green Eggs and Ham to our kids when they were little. There's nothing quite as extraordinary as watching him read Dr. Seuss. That is fantastic.

You know, we should devote a whole segment to him reading stuff like that. We'll get to the Kelsey Bowl in a second but I mean, it's time to cook, Amy. What do you cook for Thanksgiving out of curiosity? Well, A, I don't cook.

So let's just start with that. I'm not the one who's in charge of food. I don't cook. You know, I find cooking extraordinarily stressful and a girlfriend of mine said to me at one point, let me get this straight. You worked for Al Davis for almost 30 years and you find cooking stressful? But I don't cook. I am in charge of bringing ice cream and dessert. But you know, Thanksgiving's a little different for me.

You know this, Susie. I'm a vegetarian. So there's things others are eating at Thanksgiving that I am not. And I got a couple of touching reader stories about me being a vegetarian. You know, and it's so funny because Amy and I text and talk a lot.

We talk and text a lot as well. And I had sent her a picture of a turducken and I said it's great timing to have mooch on. Meanwhile, mooch would eat the whole thing in one sitting. I mean, sitting down to a meal with mooch is not for the fainted heart, of course.

But the turducken was brought into the American lexicon because of John Madden. And I sent a picture to Amy, my favorite vegetarian, and I thought to myself, how disgusting is this? Because you know, it's like a turkey instead of a duck instead of something else. It's revolting.

It's revolting to me on many levels. You know, we've talked about this just a couple of times now, that I am a vegetarian. And two touching radar-related things with respect there, too. Fans, as you know, radar parking lot, tailgating, just magnificent, magnificent. And one thing I did before every single game was walk through the parking lot and visit with fans. And when they got wind of the fact that I was a vegetarian, I'd walk through the parking lot, Amy, Amy, we barbecued asparagus for you.

Amy, we barbecued mushrooms for you. It was tremendously touching. It really moved me. And something Al did was just amazingly touching.

I'm not even looking, there's got to be a better word for it. It just touched my heart every time. When he learned that I was a vegetarian, whenever we would have a meal, whether it was a meal at a league owner's meeting, whether it was a business dinner, whether we were bringing food into the facility, he always immediately asked, is there something here for Amy?

Is there something here for Amy? And with all he had to worry about, that he would go out of his way to make sure at a league meeting or a business dinner or a social dinner that there was food for me was tremendously touching. So A, I won't be cooking on Thursday. I don't cook.

It's stressful. B, I am in charge of dessert. And C, yeah, you can have that turducken with you and Mooch. I had the same relationship with Tim Brandt on ABC only. It was, is there enough booze at the table for Susie? Because we actually, you know, when I was on the booth with Mike Torrico and Tim Brandt, we used to travel every week together, obviously.

And I think Tim Brandt personally bankrupted ABC because he would order like a bottle of Silver Oak wherever we went. And we spent a lot of Thanksgivings together. You know, as a sideline reporter, you're gone for a lot of those holidays. So, I mean, for years I was on the road and I'd always do a game like the day after.

I did a lot of Colorado-Nebraska games and what have you. You're used to not being home. So, you know, your broadcast family becomes your family. So, they didn't care about what I was eating. They just really cared about whether or not there was a good drink on the table. And that made me feel seen.

Well, or taken care of. You know, I can only recall one Thanksgiving day game we played during my career. We went to Dallas to play the Cowboys.

We didn't cross midfield the entire first half. Tony Romo had a bad back and threw for over 300 yards. But there we were Thanksgiving and we lost 24 to 7, I think it was.

Meanwhile, talk about having the best husband in the world. I'm off on a business trip with the team in Dallas and he flew to Portland to join my entire family, our entire family for Thanksgiving. So, he got good food and I got to watch Tony Romo beat us. Yeah, that sounds like a bad memory. That's a pretty bad Thanksgiving memory. My favorite Thanksgiving memory of being in a broadcast was being in the middle of a fight in the stands for the Colorado-Nebraska.

This was at Colorado, I think the last year I was on ABC. And basically my producer was like, go up in the stands, see what's going on. I said, okay, great. And I remember Mike Trico was panicking because he thought I was going to get clobbered up there. And you almost did?

I did. But it was more exciting than what was happening on the field. So, what did I care? We're going to be home. We're always home for Thanksgiving because, you know, obviously we're just working. I am going to cook.

Don't get nervous. Also, Chris Brockman's coming over with Sarah and their son Cage. If I send him home with leftovers, Amy, and he sends me back leftovers, like the container, once again, clean but gift wrap to fool my children, I will murder him. I actually told him if he takes your container again, when he returns it, it needs to be full of cookies. Yeah.

By the way, that's a good idea. I wouldn't mind a cookie right now. Let's talk about the Kelsey Bowl last night. I thought there was some world-class trolling. You know, you and I are not into the whole like, hey, we're girls. So, we had to talk about, you know, Taylor Swift cutaways with the mom. And by the way, I love Taylor Swift.

So, don't get me wrong. But I thought Jason's next level trolling of walking out with his teammate was fantastic. It's Swift and Kelsey taking the field.

That's what I call a very subtle dig at his brother. I think it's fantastic. Well done, Jason. You are our sexiest man of the year, not Patrick Dempsey. It was phenomenal, as was what the Eagles did after the game. I don't know who, you know, I don't know what part of the Eagle organization this was.

Was it direct or indirect? But someone put out a picture of a Taylor Swift lookalike bracelet and it said, Philadelphia won or Eagles won. And I thought that was, you know, it's sports and we all need to remember to accept things in the spirit of good sportsmanship and to enjoy.

Not everything has to elicit an outrage. Yeah, I think that you're exactly dead on. I thought DeAndre and Jason were hysterical together. And I like the fact that they're taking the piss out of him a little bit. Meanwhile, Jason, sorry, Travis had a rough night again. I got to tell you something.

I don't envy these guys. And you can say, if anybody comes on and says, Susie, they get paid a lot of money, but that was just bad weather for a football player, bad weather for drops. A lot of drop passes. We talked about this in the back when we were getting ready, about how many times the chiefs have dropped balls this year alone.

And we saw that none more evident than last night. And, you know, we were talking about in the back as well about Marquez Valdes, Scanling's drop with look like he was just inches from the end zone where they could have had that win over the Eagles. And so the Eagles of course go on to be nine and one, but so many drop balls on the chiefs last night. And to Patrick Mahomes credit, he did not throw any receivers under the bus. And in fact, on that pass, you just referenced, Patrick took responsibility and said, I should have thrown it a couple inches shorter and he would have had it.

So, you know, to his credit, he's not throwing anyone under the bus. One thing I'll note about that game, Kansas City had seven more first downs in Philadelphia, 98 more yards, 20 more plays, four more sacks. They sacked Jalen five times.

They held AJ and I like saying AJ because those are my initials too. They held AJ to eight yards. They haven't scored a second half point in three games.

They lost. And the reason I note all that statistic is, or all those statistics is one of my very, very favorite books in college was Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics. Statistics don't always tell the full story. Statistics, and I'm not suggesting they are in this instance, can be manipulated to tell a story. So, you know, you look at the game stats and you say Kansas City should have won that game if all you're looking at is statistics.

But here's a little secret for you, Suzy. Statistics don't line up in play. Well, I think you're right.

The Chiefs leading the league in drop passes is, that's my favorite number of this as we look at stats and numbers. Maybe they don't lie, but I'll tell you what sounds ridiculous to me is I should have thrown the ball a couple inches shorter. Like, can you really tell me that that was an error?

That was an operator error? It was not. But it was, my point in referencing that was not to agree or disagree, but to say that's magnificent leadership by Patrick Mahomes to take the pressure off the receiver.

When so many people are making the point, they are weak at that position. And he did what I believe great leaders do. Great leaders give all credit to others and accept all blame. I totally agree. But even in listening to him say it and hearing you say it again, it's like Patrick Mahomes, we know how amazing you are. We know that you operate with incredible efficiency. And it's such a leadership thing to say, but you're right, Patrick.

You should have just shaved off two or three inches from that. It's an insane thing to say. And I get it. He's trying to make up for his receiver who's clearly hurting and taking the brunt of the loss. But it's not one loss.

It's not one drop ball. That's I guess my point. By the way, I don't believe our points are mutually inconsistent. I think your point is absolutely accurate. And I think my point about Patrick's leadership is accurate.

Those two aren't mutually exclusive or mutually inconsistent. You mentioned Madden earlier because it is Thanksgiving week and we're going to talk with Mooch about that. As relates to the game last night, I was thinking of Madden a lot. He said to me very, very early in my career that, and to be clear for our listeners, I was not with the Raiders while Madden was the coach.

I was but a child. But he was a significant, significant part of the organization forever. Even after he left as coach, he was involved and presence and you could feel his presence in the building. Well, he said to me very, very early in my career that when we watch a game, so often people want to focus on who lost and why they lost. When really it can be a terrific game between two great teams and the focus should be on who won. And he asked it sort of as a question, which is why are we always societally focusing on who lost when maybe the thing to do is focus on who won. Irrespective of whether one agrees with that or not, I was thinking of John throughout the game last night, recognizing we were watching a fun game. And it's so interesting about you saying that because now that I realize it, we're talking about who lost the game on Monday night and not who won it.

We're not talking about yet another tush push. We're not talking about the fact that the Eagles went on to win that game. On the road in one of the, if not, I'm not going to say one of the, the hardest road environment in which I ever attended a game while with the Raiders, the hardest road environment. So you're right. Not only did they do all that, they did it on the road in an extraordinarily hard environment in which to do so.

Starting the season again, nine and one for the second straight year. So I guess maybe you're right. Maybe we have to shift our focus and look at who won the game and not who lost the game. And I just thought those were wise words from John.

He was, he posited it in a very conversational manner, a very philosophical manner, which is why is the focus always on who lost instead of who won? And by the way, I think that transcends sports. Do we want to talk Madden more right now or should we talk Najee Harris?

I can go either direction. Let's maybe save Madden for when we're talking to Mooch and let's do, you know, we could talk Pittsburgh and we could talk the Jets because this may surprise you. I see a parallel there.

I see another story. The reason why we're bringing this up of course, is because last week Ken Dorsey was fired the OC in Buffalo and Matt Canada was let go from the Steelers. Now who didn't see that one coming, right? I mean, I saw that one coming a mile away. Well, you're prescient because I believe this is the first time since 1941 that the Steelers have done something of this nature in season.

1941 was a really long time ago. The parallel I was going to draw wasn't between Buffalo, although you're wise to bring that in because it's equally applicable with Ken Dorsey, but what Pittsburgh did in relieving Matt Canada, relieving him. That's French for firing him, right?

They fired their offensive coordinator, Buffalo, as you noted, filed their offensive coordinator and the Jets have benched their quarterback early, early, early in my career. Honest to gosh, Susie, I think it was the first week and our general counsel, Jeff Beren, just a magnificent, magnificent person said to me, you're going to learn something about football, Amy. I think this was when I was an intern, my first weekend of my internship, he said, in football, you're going to hear all the time. I confess he did it. And when you say, I confess he did it.

The person saying that is pointing all these different directions because always is the search for someone to blame. And in Buffalo and in Pittsburgh, the blame was placed or the responsibility for the problems were placed on the offensive coordinator, perhaps fairly. And in New York, it was placed on the quarterback fairly. I believe, although there's offensive coordinator issues in New York as well, in my view, but I confess he did it.

And I was told that the first week of my internship and I've seen it in football since. Well, there's clearly issues. There's something rotten in the state of New York and apparently in Pennsylvania as well, because. Can we just blame it on New Jersey instead of New York, since they both play in New Jersey? It is, it is ridiculous.

It should be the New Jersey Jets, but don't get me started. My husband would have a coronary, but I just think, you know, and this is part of a bigger picture of hearing players complaining publicly about their coaches. And we're going to take one quick listen to Najee Harris right now. There's just a lot of stuff that just goes around. It's just, it's just that you guys don't see that's a classic. I'm just at a point where I was just like, I'm just tired. Does it seem like the other teams know what's coming? Yeah, some situations, you know, with the bills, it was Stefan Diggs' brother, Trayvon going to Twitter and saying 14's got to get up and out of there. Here you had a running back saying things. Well, it was on his mind. And my favorite part about this soundbite was as one of the reporters noted, the Steelers PR wanted him to wrap up and he just sat there taking the questions. He is letting the Steelers know how unhappy he is publicly. Would that have happened when Al was there?

And let me just add before we get to that, because that's a great question. You know, we heard Najee's comments. Well, Deontay Johnson on the sideline during that game had to be physically yanked away from a coach by a rookie offensive lineman. So whether he had to be or not, this rookie offensive lineman believed he needed to be.

So imagine being a rookie offensive lineman and going over and picking up Deontay Johnson and moving him away. There were clearly, clearly big problems there. And the answer Susie is there were instances in which our players spoke out.

But the big difference was there was no social media in the early years of my career for, you know, most of my career. Susie, when I started my career, when we got an emergency thing from the league, it came as a fact. Okay. So did it happen at times? Absolutely. But it did it viral?

No, it didn't. Amy, it's a good thing. We've got Steve Mariucci joining us in a minute or two. We can ask him his thoughts on this because I can't imagine that Mooch would have loved to coach during social media. So we're going to talk to Steve Mariucci, not only about that, but about John Madden and what his favorite Thanksgiving food is. And I think I already know that and it's kind of anything, but first I'll tell you about game time because I love them because I'm constantly buying tickets for my kids. We go to everything and we're always buying tickets and I've got three kids with three different likes.

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Last minute tickets, lowest price guaranteed. And as promised, Steve Mariucci joins us now and Steve's sipping on some tea and honey because Gail's taking care of him. You lost your voice on a Monday night football broadcast so we won't keep you that long. Well, maybe we will because we're just happy to have you here with us. Whatever you guys want.

Yep. Well, before we dive in, I'm gonna say it. I love Steve Mariucci, not in a weird or creepy way. I just adore you and can't thank you enough for joining us, especially when you have your scratchy voice. So thank you. Hey, I'll stay on as long as you guys want. You know, it's just a voice.

I'll get it back for Thursday morning. But anyway, yeah, I felt that way about you, Amy, for years after meeting you, fighting over the seat. And then you became friends with Gail and the whole thing. Not just because you're sitting here, but I really admired your career.

Thank you, Mooch. That means the world and I really do respect and admire and adore you, but I'm still going to reference that seat because it was my seat and you took it. My ticket stub said 2C and I was sitting down very comfortably.

And then all of a sudden you tried it. You said, that's my seat. It was not your seat. Well, I had that seat too. And there we are on an airplane and Mooch and I are assigned the same seat, but he got it first.

It was our first real encounter. And I don't remember whether I said to you, okay, I'll sit on your lap or whether you said to me, I'll sit on your lap. And then I prevailed on Mooch because Al was on the plane as well. And we just had had just a couple of days and I just did not want to go over there and sit next to him and fly all the way home.

I just wanted to chill a little bit. And I kind of did the thing with Mooch where we looked at one another. I'm like, could you just go sit with Al? And he did.

I did. And I was the gentleman and I caved in like I always do. But I got to know Al a little bit. That was the first time really I said anything but hello to Al.

And we talked for three hours across the country. Steve, I want to ask you right away, what would you think about having a player that you were coaching use social media to air his grievances with his coach or his team? Social media, it wasn't really prevalent when I was coaching, thankfully, because it's really something right now.

But I don't think I don't know if it's a lot different in terms of policing it or whatever you want to call it. I don't know if it's too much different than a guy holding a press conference and bashing a teammate or a coach or an organization or whatever play calling in the newspaper, right? And you always would remind your team and you hope that guys would do this. It would, hey, if you've got anything negative to say or a beef, come on in and sit down and we'll talk about it privately.

Try to keep things in house as much as possible. There's so many leaks. There's leaks everywhere with everything. But sometimes guys just feel like they're compelled to tell the world their thoughts. And I mean, conduct detrimental is, you know, it expands from the field to the from the building to meetings, to social media, all that kind of thing. So coach has to determine that if it's conduct detrimental or not. But it's, you know, guys like to express themselves.

We all we know that. And sometimes sometimes you go overboard a little bit. I'm glad you mentioned conduct detrimental, Mooch, because that is a term of art that is in player contracts. It's also in non-player contracts. It's also something the league will impose on teams, on players. Teams impose it on staff and players.

Conduct detrimental and it really can be defined in any number of ways. So I'm glad you referenced it. And your point is well taken that even though social media is all over now and it wasn't as it is now when you and I were in the league.

But your point is so well taken that whether it's social media or just a press conference, the results can be the same. And I'm just curious as to any advice you would give to a coach who's having trouble doing what you suggested, which is saying to the players, just come to me and talk to me privately. If that's not working with an organization and certainly it wasn't in Pittsburgh, what advice would you give the coach in that situation? Yeah, I was a little surprised with Najee Harris. He's a good kid. He's a Bay Area kid. You know that.

He and I did an American Cancer Society fundraiser together this summer, and he's a good guy. And I sense some frustration, right? That's when it happens. It doesn't happen when you're winning. It happens when you're losing and the coach might be on the hot seat or the position coach or coordinator might be on the hot seat and you want to fire off a scud missile.

And so it was unfortunate that he kind of implied that people knew what plays come in and of course people know what plays come in. The run game, and that's what Najee is. He's a run game guy.

He's a banger. And they've got five, six runs to go on each side. Of course the defense has to stop those plays. Plus, I think maybe Najee's, and I love him to death, you might be a little frustrated that his workload's getting reduced too because Jalen Warren's doing a heck of a job over there as the other back, right? Getting more touches.

So it's unfortunate. I don't like seeing guys getting whacked during the middle of the season. But for example, with Mike Tomlin, of course, he's a terrific coach. Probably going to be a Hall of Famer someday.

When you do a self-scout, you go through everything you do with a fine-tooth comb. And you say, well, we're not good in the red zone and we're not good at blitzing. We're not good in man coverage. We're not good on deck return. And how do we get better? Well, the one glaring weakness that the football team has is scoring points and moving the ball on offense. And they have a good team, but that seems to be their Achilles heel. And I don't think it's been happening lately.

It's been going on quite a long time. And yeah, they have some young players and Kenny Pickett was a rookie and blah, blah, blah. But he probably felt that offense needed a kickstart with some other play call, some infusion of energy and some new thoughts because they haven't had 400 yards in like years. They're just not explosive.

They're the opposite of explosive. And so Mike probably felt, hey, we need to make a change. Sometimes I'm a little surprised to just think, Ken Dorsey, you're out of the building, go away. Sometimes he just name another guy as the play caller.

That's another alternative. And they have to decide if that's good for the building and good for that old play caller coordinator to be sitting in the meetings. And is there a conflict there? Can he handle it?

So anyway, it's tough to see that, but we'll see what happens. You know, in today's world, it seems the best treatment is reserved only for a few. Well, Discover wants to change that by making everyone feel special. That's why with your Discover card, you have access to 24 seven live customer service, as well as zero dollar fraud liability, which means you're never held responsible for unauthorized purchases. Finally, no matter who you are or where you are in life, you'll feel special with Discover.

Learn more at discover.com slash credit card. Limitations apply. All right, folks, let's talk about game time. And let's talk about buying tickets to big time events, because it can be worrisome, it can be time consuming, and it can be expensive. So game time is the fast and easy way to buy tickets for all the sports, music, comedy and theater events near you. You can see the view from your seat before you buy so you know exactly what to expect when you arrive. They have all in prices that show you your total upfront. So you know you're getting a great deal without hidden fees.

And how easy is it to use? You can buy tickets on game time in seconds with two taps, and there's a game time guarantee, which means you'll always get the best price. If you find tickets in the same section and row for less game time will credit you 110% of the difference. It is so awesome. I use it. You should as well for sports, music, comedy.

Did I mention theater events all near you? Take the guesswork out of buying tickets with game time. Download the game time app. Create an account.

It's so easy. And use code EISEN for $20 off your first purchase. Restrictions apply. Visit game time.co for terms. Again, create an account and redeem the code EISEN for $20 off. Download game time today.

Last minute tickets, lowest price guaranteed. Let's talk about more fun things. Let's talk about John Madden because we feel like we're going to talk about a couple of things much. We're going to talk about John Madden. We're going to talk about Thanksgiving food. Those are two of your favorite things, I think.

So what is your favorite John Madden story? Oh God, how much time do we have? We have like all day. It's a podcast.

As much as you want. So I was sitting here waiting on this Zoom. I'm waiting for eight minutes listening to you guys. So I knew we were going to talk about John Madden. So I went over and grabbed a photo.

I got a bunch of stuff from him. We did a bocce ball tournament. It's been going on for 25 years. And Susie Rich has been there. We've had our crew up there, Cliff Clavin. Amy's been there many times. In fact, I hate to admit this, but Amy, one time it was raining out. So half the courts are indoors, half the courts are outdoors.

We put the Raiders outdoors in the rain. She filed a protest because she had two inches. So what?

There's two inches of water on your court. What's the big deal? And she filed a protest whining.

Hey, hey, hey. That law degree comes in handy, Mooch. I did file a protest.

I used that. Thank you very much, mom and dad, for the law degree. Well, nobody else filed a protest that we're playing outside. But you got to play better than your field conditions, Mooch.

I mean, this is your day though. You have to step up. We're longer cleats or something.

I don't know, but you got to deal with it. But we've had a million Raiders, right? The Hall of Famers, a lot of the rookies, whatever.

We've had Niners and whatnot. But one, I went and grabbed a photo off the wall of John and I. Look at this. I hope you can see it. Can you see this? Go down, go down, lower, lower, there you go. Don't move.

Mooch, your hair was a lot darker. And so look at this. This is, we're in a golf cart, right? We're in a golf cart. Why I let John Madden drive, I have no idea, but we're having a good time.

That is coffee in my mug. And so this is a monumental day for me because I never quit anything in my whole life, except one thing, golf. And so we are golfing over at Ruby Hills. I was there. Fourth hole. Yeah.

And he goes, Mooch, are you hungry? I go, duh. Yeah.

Boom. We took a left. We went into the clubhouse after four holes of golf. We ate and drank and kitted around all day, waited for everybody to finish and have their big dinner and all that auction stuff. And that's the very last time I ever golfed.

That was like 15 years ago. So this was the day, maybe he, maybe he made me quit. Maybe I was so bad because he was talking when I was hitting, I don't know. But you know, we've had, we've had a lot of great times together. And it's not just, not just socially, but when, even when he was working, we had, he made it fun. In fact, when I was in Green Bay, I was the coach of the Niners and I was, he, you do the interview with the production meeting on his bus. And so I'm on the bus and he goes, Mooch, where'd you live when you were coaching Green Bay?

I go, come on, let's go. So we drove the bus over to my house about a mile and a half away from the stadium, down a cul-de-sac, kids coming out of the doors. Hey, Matt and boss are banging on the bus.

And he was just, he was just driving his bus around the neighborhood, checking out where everybody lived. I'm here. And sure, Lou's there. Holmgren's there.

Barb's over there. And he, we, we didn't, I don't even think we talked about the game. It was all about reminiscing about things and, and, and he was so good to those kids and he was just having a blast. He made it fun. It was incredible. Hey Mooch, those Mariuchi, Madden, Bocce tournaments you did were magnificent. I never missed one during my years with the team. And I will always, always, always remember the time the team, the Raider team on which I was participating. And by participating, I mean, coaching.

We beat Madden's team. And I strode around that bocce cart. I have a picture of it.

I will dig it out with my arms straight above my head. I was marching around. I was preening and prancing. And you know, you're not being a good sport or you're over the top. When Willie Brown, old man, Willie Brown puts his hand on my shoulders and said, calm down, you know, take it down a notch, take it.

When Willie Brown is telling you to take it down a notch, you're over the top. And by the way, that Ruby Hill thing, I was driving my own golf cart. If you weren't happy with Madden driving, I'd have driven you around. Just think, maybe I would have continued to golf if I was driving around with you. There you go. I'm kind of glad I quit because it's just, I just, I wasn't any good.

So yeah, you were at a lot of those bocce events. Oh my God. We've raised $8 million. I mean, it's, it's magnificent. We're going to obviously keep it going. We had our 25 year anniversary this past year.

For those of us, by the way, listening, you can go to the Rich Eyes and Show YouTube page and see these photographs. We're going to show a couple more photographs and go back down memory lane with Mooch. Mooch, I too have been on the Madden Cruiser.

Do you know this? Leslie Visser, who I'm responsible to for the rest of my life because she was my mentor and got me into the game. He used to give Leslie the Madden Cruiser to use for a gal about town, so to speak, bar cruiser. So Leslie would invite any women that she, Leslie is the OG about being responsible and supportive of women coming up in the business.

And that was her intern at CBS Sports. And she would invite women in the business to go on the Madden Cruiser. We would show up at the Dakota and go to John Madden's apartment on the first floor. We'd have cocktails with him where he'd walk around. Yes. He would walk around with a bottle of booze and plastic glasses. Okay. And I don't think we have the picture handy.

We will post it later. He would pour you out the booze and the plastic cups. Then we'd all go in the Madden Cruiser and we'd cruise around and go bar hopping. Now there is nothing cooler in the entire world than going on the Madden Cruiser in Manhattan.

I mean, you want to look hotter than you really are. Get off the Madden Cruiser. And it was so amazing. And I was, and Mooch stopped me.

You would not even recognize, I'm going to show you the fattest space kid you've ever seen. I was like 21, 22. And there I was on the Madden Cruiser with Leslie Visser and Leslie and Wayne from CBS Sports.

And I'm telling you right now, Mooch, it was one of the best nights of my life. My brother was like, what the hell are you doing on the Madden Cruiser? But it was so cool. And what I thought that was so interesting about John Madden, and I'm curious about your take, is what I never knew about him was how shy he was. That to me was the biggest surprise because, you know, you know, you just know him from like boom and all these commercials and he's bigger than life.

But I had no idea how shy he was in person. So, okay. You know what an extrovert is? Right? You know what an introvert is? The opposite, right? Well, you know what an ambivert is?

Have you heard of that? An ambivert is a person who has to have both of those in his. He has to be able to be an extrovert at times. An extrovert at times.

And then quiet down, me time, introvert at times. And John had the ability to do that. He could be bigger than life on television, commercials, busted through the paper, you know, whatever that is.

And entertainer, funny. And then there was times where he'd like to be alone or just with his family or just with a small circle of friends. In fact, Amy, you probably remember, even at the bocce event, because we would do a welcome and we would do some TV interviews, but he wasn't looking for that stuff.

He would stand at the far side of the court where kind of nobody could pass by and get it worked out, thousand autographs. And he just kind of tried to stay away from it as much as he could sometimes. And he was one of those guys that could turn it on, turn it off.

But of course, the older he got, I think the more and more to himself he was, you know, the quieter life that he was leading. And my gosh, now that we're talking about it, I'm really missing him. And you know, Mooch, you mentioned that he was very, very funny. And he was, of course, and people saw the public funny. I thought the funnier part of Madden wasn't the public funny, but the quiet voice, just so witty. When we would attend charity dinners throughout the Bay Area, wherever we were, we would go to charity dinners where the Raiders had bought tables. And often I was sitting next to Mooch and he would, in an under the breath voice, have the wittiest running commentary during the charity events that there were times he was making comments under his voice. I was laughing like a teenage girl, and Al was having to tell us both to behave.

You have to be intelligent to be witty. I'm going to interrupt and just underscore something you said earlier, because it's so important for those people listening and or watching. The tournament we're referencing, and Mooch referenced the 8 million raised, the tournament that Steve and John put on was for charity. And it was magnificently well done and helped a lot, a lot, a lot of people. So thank you.

Thank you for mentioning that. Here's what we did here. Let me show it. Let me show it. Hang on. Hang on.

We're getting a tour of Mooch's office. Well, nice artwork too. After he passed, you know, the next time around, of course, Virginia and Mike and Joe, they still come and play.

They have a team. We gave this, you know, you got to have a gift, right, for people when they play in your bocce tournaments. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Beautiful. That's beautiful, Mooch.

Mooch, what do you miss most about him? So, gosh, he asked me to be on the Player Safety Advisory Panel, okay. He personally asked me to do that when Marty Schott-Nymer couldn't do it anymore.

And so, gosh, I think, I don't know, 14, 15 years ago, whatever that was. And every time I'm home, you know, I get home, I'd be either watching Monday Night Football when I get home after the pregame show or Thursday Night Football or even sometimes college games. He would call and I'd call him too because we're on the committee looking at player safety, right. And, did you see that? Did you see that?

He goes, you know, that should have been that special. Look at those pants. Nobody's wearing their knee pads over their pants anymore.

They're way up here like shorts. We got to make sure we change that. Look at that face mask, Mooch. That face mask looks like some decorative thing that some artist made.

We got to kind of standardize the face mask. I mean, he was so into it constantly. And he's got a studio, Amy, I'm sure you've been there. He's got a studio over there.

It's just like at the NFL Network where there's 10 games on at the same time. Well, he's got that. And so, on Sundays, that's what he would do. He would watch all the games. And sometimes he would bring over some friends and family, but sometimes some coaches from the area or, you know, whatever.

And I never got to do that very often because I'm always working on Sundays. But one time when I wasn't doing a London game, I had the day off like a couple of years ago, a few years ago, I went over to see John Madden's studio, man. It was incredible because he lived football. That's what he, and of course his family, but that was it.

I guess, yeah, add food in there. But, you know, he was watching it and studying it and trying to make it better all the time. He was on these committees and people listen to him.

We have a committee now, it's still going, but we don't have the same, we don't have the same mojoism, what we used to have with John. Because when he said something, it was like E.F. Hutton, people would listen. And so, I miss how dedicated he was towards football. He'd go to the high school games because Jesse was playing high school. Now he's playing at Michigan, he wants to be a coach. And he'd be sitting in the end zone in his big truck, just watching the game all by himself. But that's what impressed me so much is when you can live your profession, you know, you don't just, once you're done working, you go home and you don't think about it. He's always thinking about football and how to make it better and how to make it safer for players and, you know, all those sort of things.

So, I miss that part of him too. What's it like mooch coaching on Thanksgiving? What's it like?

Take us behind the scenes there and what's your best memory of that? So, for all the aspiring coaches out there, if you want to coach in pro football, you better know that the only holiday you're getting off is the 4th of July, right? Go somewhere and watch the fireworks because that's it. Because you're going to be working Halloween, you're going to be working Thanksgiving, you're going to be working Christmas, you're going to be working New Year's, all those others where somebody's got it. People are sitting at home watching football.

NFL football is the most, by far, the most number one programming, I don't know, the last 82 shows were football, the top viewed audiences. And so, that's what people do. Well, somebody's got to be working if they're home watching football, right? And so, and whether you're coaching or broadcasting, you're working those days for the most part, right? And you got to know that and your family and wives got to know that. So, it's an honor.

It's a privilege because those are prime time games that everybody cares about and very, very cool. So, you got Lions and Niners, who are you taking? If they play in the NFC Championship, if it is, and take the Eagles out of it, of course. Boy, you know, the Eagles, they pulled one out, they came from behind 17-7 down and beat Andy's Chiefs last night. Andy and I coached together.

In a very, very rough road environment. That is a tough place to play on the road. Tough after he had a bye too and he was 21-3. But that's a good win for Philadelphia because if they lose that game, now all of a sudden the Lions are right there with them. And the Lions, you know, they're just new to this. They haven't been in this situation in decades. But they don't know that.

They don't care. They just want to, they think not only are we going to win the division, we're going to have home field advantage. Just keep winning because their path is a little bit, I don't want to say easier. All the games are tough, but Philly's got five tough games in a row.

And then now they check the one box. But the Niners, when they're healthy, But take Philly out of it. Like the two teams that you coached.

Let me hear you break those down versus, you know, like I want to hear from your perspective. Well, let's just go back to the Lions. I'm really happy for that town. They haven't had a, they haven't had a successful football team in so long, very Sanders days. And they deserve it in its time. And they needed, they needed to get the bars in there and Rogers and the Kirk Cousins and all these other quarterbacks out of the league. And now we can, we can improve. And then the trade that they had with, with the Rams for Matt Stafford was like, what happened?

Well, it's proving to be beneficial with all the choices and Jared Goff voice. We're proud of him. He's a go bears, right?

Amy, you know what Mooch you read my mind when you were done talking, I was about to say, and of course the lions have an extremely well educated quarterback. Yes. Yeah.

Were you from Marin Catholic high school or, or from Cal? Come on Mooch. Go bears. Yeah, no, he's doing great. I'm really happy for him. Cause he, he was sort of discarded.

He was like the baby out with the bathwater. I don't know. And they're, but they're legit. They have a good offensive line. They're improved on defense. Aaron Glenn has really made their defense. They were the worst defense in the league. Now we're a top 10 defense. So they, they got a chance to win 13, 14 games.

Really? Now the Niners when they're right, when they're whole, I think they have the best roster. I think John Lynch has put together a superb roster with big guys and speed guys and found a quarterback late in the draft.

That's getting it done. So they got all that cap room to spend on other positions for, for a couple of years here. And so if they're right in the kiddos of the world and the Fred Warners, they got so many good, tough veterans that are hardworking guys that, uh, uh, in fact, those, those guys come on over. We have our, uh, Amy, you got to come on over to our down syndrome football camp. We have every love to, I'd be honored to advice to those guys, those guys come and help out. They're that kind of, they're, they're gentlemen. They're caring. They're good for the community. They're good for the chemistry of their team. I know.

Yeah. They're pro bowl players. So I think the Niners probably have the best chance to win a super bowl. If they're healthy, I'm coming Mooch. If you have to watch one game though, what game are you watching on Thanksgiving? And what are you eating when you're watching it? I'm watching them all. I'm watching them all. Um, one, uh, make a choice here. Come on Mooch. I'm watching.

Okay. Probably the Niners at the Seahawks. I don't know. Is Gino going to be okay. He got hit, you know, he got hit in the eye and the bicep, but get, rub it out. He's got to play. And then they play the Seahawks two more weeks from now. So that's a big, big game for, for seeding for division title.

Uh, the whole kid in Caboodle. We all know how hard it is to play over there with the gloves. They don't sit down.

They're like a college crowd and a short week. And yeah, it's going to be a big game. Have you had a turdock in East? Oh yeah. Yeah.

Really? Is it, I mean, look, Mooch, I know how much you love food. I've fed you many a time, but that just looks disgusting.

You should go Italian when we come over there. Remember when I used to do that? I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Did my invitation to this dinner get lost in the mail? Amy, this was pre WTF.

I'm just saying I think pre invitation got lost in the mail. Usually it would have to do with like a Sopranos closer. We always would watch like the Sopranos together or what? No, it wasn't surprising. Was it, what did we watch together? We watched. Oh, oh, oh yeah. Remember when Trent Dilfer was there and others? I mean, nothing like inside jokes on a podcast.

This is so dumb. 24. It was 24. Jack Bauer. He was interrogating somebody. Yep.

CTU was calling, you know, my, my phone ringer is still CTU by the way. I have no idea what these two people are talking about. So when I know Mooch is coming over, I will serve great, great Italian. Usually my friend Dominic will make some lasagnas or eggplant parms or whatever, or chicken parm because he like Rich, Rich has a joke. Like if he's dying, he wants mainline chicken parm into his veins.

And I think you agree that that might be the way to go. Correct. Not only, not only do we have Italian when we're over there with Susie and Rich, but she, this girl here speaks Italian. She speaks fluent Italian.

It's unbelievable. Uh, Mooch, but hold on. I got distracted by Italian. Um, hold on. I got distracted by food, Thanksgiving food, but isn't it turducken disgusting? Let's go back to that because Amy and I are fascinated by this. And of course, for all of you guys listening, the reason why we got around to this was I thought, okay, Thanksgiving turducken, John Madden, let's have Mooch on. So that's how my brain works.

Go Mooch. What were you saying? You know, you know, a turducken is fake. You know that, right? I hate the rain on your parade here, but Madden made it up and he stuck these other legs on it. You know, some chicken and duck legs and all that stuff. And, and, uh, you know, it doesn't really have six legs Susie.

It's gross Mooch. It's just, it's like eating Frankenstein for dinner, you know? Well, you know what? It's all good, right? I mean, it's, it's like, you know, three different kinds of pastas.

You just mix it all up and it all goes down the same hole. It's really good. And, uh, but, uh, that became such, in fact, now you'll see it again. It's the John Madden celebration, right? The second annual, I guess we're going to do this forever, right? Yeah.

Thanksgiving football in the NFL is going to be John Madden. That's it. And, uh, because he made it, he made it bigger than it was. He made it fun with the turducken and all that other stuff. And, and, uh, he lived for those days.

It was so funny too, cause he would get on that bus that you were riding around on over there in New York city. And, and he wouldn't come home. I mean, he would at least say goodbye to Virginia.

I'm out of here. And he'd be gone for six months unless, unless he had a game in the Bay area. And so he might get home two, three times a year, Bay area or LA. And, uh, but otherwise he was staying over there at the Dakota or, or, or he had a place in Chicago and plays in Dallas.

And that's where he would stay. You know, Mooch, as you're talking about John, um, I'm going to get a little bit sentimental for a moment. We all remember John saying that he believes that when the lights go out at the end of the day at the pro football hall of fame, all of the busts begin talking with one another. And as I hear you talking about John, I really like to believe that his bust and Al's bust are enjoying their time together because those men had a relationship that spanned their lifetimes. Once, you know, when John left coaching of the Raiders, he wasn't out of the Raiders. He remained a very, very, very strong presence in that organization. And I had the just unbelievable, phenomenal, um, honor and, and boy, it was a lot of fun of sitting in Al's office, listening to him and John talk. And I hope their busts are talking right now.

I know they are. And everybody's going to get in line and talk to John because he's, you know, when he feels like it, he might just say, all right, all right, all right. I got an hour here. Let's talk.

Who wants to talk? Sammy Ball, you want to talk or you mean, and, uh, and he can carry a conversation and he can make it interesting and he can make it funny and he can listen. He was a good listener and, uh, yeah.

And Al too, gosh. All right. You got me emotional.

Yeah, me too. You got me all goosebumpy. Mooch, we really appreciate your time. Have the most wonderful Thanksgiving.

Have a good show. Give her a love to Gail to us because we give our love to Gail for us because we love her too. We do. And say hello before she left the building here. She said to say hello to you guys.

Yeah. Have a, have a happy Thanksgiving. We have so much to be thankful for. Don't we?

We really do Mooch. And one of the things I'm thankful for is, um, the phenomenal, phenomenal people with whom I interacted with throughout my career and still interact. And you are a top that list. Thank you so much for joining us. Um, you know what, in the spirit of Thanksgiving, I forgive you for taking my seat on the plane. Well, you owe me a seat right next time. I adore you.

You can have my seat always. Love you Mooch. Thanks bud. I love you guys. Thanks for having me on. Happy Thanksgiving.

Bye Mooch. Before we leave today on what the football, I thought I would have a chat with you about my thoughts on the sideline reporting scandal that brewed last week with Carissa Thompson, admitting on a podcast that she had made things up on the sideline, um, while she was covering football and Aaron Andrews then concurred that she too had made things up on the sideline. I was a sideline reporter for ABC sports, Fox sports and TNT.

Is it science? It's not, but I worked my ass off. I studied hundreds of names per week. I traveled four to eight flights a week all the time. And I took great pride in my work. I never for one second would have considered making up a hit.

And in fact, if I didn't have anything, I would tell my producer, I don't have anything, but I always had something. I had a coach hose me on the air live. That would be Bobby Bowden during a Florida state game where I saw his cornerback. I think his name was McEwing, uh, who broke his left shoulder. Amy during a game, I went inside.

I saw him getting X-rayed. I stopped Bobby and I said, Bobby, what are you going to do without McEwing? And the second half is yeah, he's got a broken shoulder. So I said, okay, can we go live right out of the half ABC sports?

They come to us. All right, let's go down to Susie. And I say to coach Bowden, you lost McEwing second half broken shoulder. You just told me, what can you tell me now? He said he did. And here we are live on the air and I've got to take it back from commercial. You know, I was so excited about this. It was actually, that was, that's what it was. And he hosed me on the air. He was, is that right, darling? I didn't even know that. All right, let's go play some football. And I couldn't believe it.

But my point was Amy, it never would have occurred to me to make something up. And it may just be that silent reporting isn't science, but for those of us who actually really care about it, it was everything. And, uh, I just want to react to that because I've had a lot of people ask me how I felt about it. I've had a coach almost fall on me while we're running. I've had a coach basically say to me, um, I've had a coach while I was running next to him.

He, this is Chuck Amato from NC state. He was down to Florida state. I said, coach, you're a defensive minded coach. What do you say in the Florida state offense that you can attack? And he took a second and said, you and I think Gary Thorne was on the call and I just kept running and asking him questions all the way into the sideline. Like I took all the way into the locker room. I took it seriously.

I never had Amy. I never had the ability not to well, and I'm going to take this more broadly and talk about media and reporting and journalism as a whole. So beyond sideline, beyond sports, we're living in an era right now where anyone can post anything they want on social media, on the internet, and people will believe what they read as if it is factually true. And so I, I pull back from this and say, let's step aside from sports.

Let's step aside from the sideline. Let's step aside from that and look at the world as a whole. Journalism matters. Truth in reporting matters, and I'll just leave it at that. Just because you read something on the internet, just because you read something on social media, doesn't mean it's true. And it's important for everyone to remember that and do your research and do your homework.

Yeah, we talked about this earlier. The first thing that I taught my kids was about personal accountability. And I do believe that we have a responsibility when we're sitting in front of a microphone to speak the truth. And even my own brother doesn't like sideline reporters. He used to just give me so much crap if I was doing like a report, like he'd call that like a fluff report about something I learned earlier in the week. I prided myself on being on the field, seeing what was happening, that maybe Tariqo wouldn't see from his position. And I felt responsible. I felt like all those people that were watching trusted me to bring them what they couldn't see. That was my job. I'm not going to say I'm not going to say I couldn't see. That was my job.

I never loved the fluff stuff, right? But I never for one second would have ever made something up. There is a trust that occurs between you listening at home and me broadcasting to you.

And that trust would never be broken, nor shall it ever be broken. And I think I speak for all women in the business that we're not allowed to make mistakes. I pronounce the name wrong, and I'm a girl. I pronounce something wrong. I say the wrong. I make the wrong call.

I can't remember a score. Oh, she's a woman. She shouldn't be doing it. So I guess I'm reacting to the hubris of it all for all the women who came before me and all the women that followed me, because we work our butts off, whether you want us there or not, and we're not going anywhere. But I wanted to talk about this, and I'm glad that I had the opportunity to do so, and I'm glad I could do it with you, Amy, because you are truth, and you are who you said you are, and we appreciate that. One thing that I learned, I can't even remember how long ago. This has been my view forever. Say what you mean and mean what you say.

Truth is essential. I want to thank all of you for taking in this edition of What the Football. I hope you all have the best Thanksgiving. I am going to actually leave this studio here on a Tuesday, Amy, and cook. I'm not cooking. I'm cooking. I'm cooking. Breakfast is coming over. It's going to be a throwdown.

It's going to be a mass whole throwdown, but I can't wait. So I hope wherever you are taking this edition of What the Football is, you enjoy Thanksgiving with those that you love and those that love you. Have a great, great week. Talk to you next Tuesday. There was a lot of stuff distracting him. It wasn't just drugs, although that was certainly a major factor. Rolling Stone music now, wherever you listen.