REShow: Todd Blackledge and Joe Thomas - Hour 2

This is the Rich Eisen Show. And he is coming for you.

Live from the Rich Eisen Show studio in Los Angeles. Chris, I thought that was a great Patriot win on Sunday. Why would I be happy?

No one in the stadium wanted them to win. I think you're way off and I think that... The season is over, it's pointless.

No it's not. Get ready for 2024. Today's guests, Lions Quarterback Jared Goff. Coming up, NBC College Football Analyst Todd Blackledge. Pro Football Hall of Famer Joe Thomas.

Seahawks wide receiver Jackson Smith and Jigba. And now, it's Rich Eisen. That's right, our number two the Rich Eisen Show is on the air.

844204 Rich is the number to dial here on the program. I got a top five list today but it's not the usual top five that I have on a Tuesday when I normally give you the top performances in the previous week's NFL activity that just wrapped up. With the trade deadline coming up one week from today, I've got a top five of players I would basically sell the house for at the trade deadline. That's coming up in hour number three when we talk to Jackson Smith and Jigba, formerly of the Ohio State, now of the Seattle Seahawks. He got into the end zone for the first time in his professional career this weekend. So we give him a call.

That's in hour number three. Later on in this hour we've got the Pro Football Hall of Famer from the Cleveland Browns and my buddy from back in the day on NFL Network. Joe Thomas is going to be calling us because he says he's got an idea how to stop the brotherly shove with regularity.

Give that a whirl. But joining us right now here on the Rich Eisen Show, a national champion from your Penn State Nittany Lions, CJ Jefferson. Yes indeed. Now of NBC Sports, enjoyed his call with Noah Eagle this past weekend with Michigan, Michigan State. Be on the call of Ohio State, pardon me, the Ohio State in Wisconsin on Big Ten Saturday nights, 730 Eastern on NBC and Peacock.

Todd Blackledge here on the Rich Eisen Show. How you doing, Todd? I'm doing good, Rich. How are you doing? I'm doing fine, man. I've got so many questions for you.

Not just about what you call, but from your playing days. And, you know, I haven't really had much of a conversation with you, but let's start, I guess, with the here and now. What's your opinion of what's going on with the NCAA investigation of the Michigan Wolverines? Todd? Well, you know, it's interesting because the story today is a lot different than it was when we went on the air Saturday in terms of more information or more evidence, you know, supporting these allegations.

I think you, I heard you say it a little bit earlier. My opinion is, look, everybody's trying to steal signs. I mean, this is not new. It's not uncommon. Everybody is looking for some form of competitive advantage, whether they're doing it off of game film or previous games or in game as the game is unfolding.

That's why teams are constantly changing their signals through the course of the season, because they know this is happening. It's a common practice. It's not illegal. But the things that now Michigan are accused of doing, in-person scouting, which never was illegal until 1994, and using some kind of electronic or recording devices, those things are illegal. And if it comes to be that they prove that this is true, then there should be some consequences for Michigan. I don't know what extent those consequences would be or when they would ever be able to enforce it or make it happen. But, you know, the allegations are that they crossed the lines on a couple of things.

And if that's true, then there should be some consequence for it. However, and I said this on the air, I don't think this should take away anything of how good this Michigan football team is, how talented they are on both sides of the ball, how much depth they have at all three levels of their offense and defense. This is an outstanding football team that is playing great football. And I really don't think stealing signs or if they were able to ascertain signals is making that much of a difference, if any, in how they've played this year. Now, Michigan State might not have the firepower on either side of the football right now to affect the, I guess, removal of whatever system Michigan had removed by this story last week in terms of points on the scoreboard or even wins and losses. But that said, what did you see out of Michigan State on Saturday night to try and combat, I guess, what was going on and how Michigan handled it? Did you see any sense of Michigan being, and again, I watched it, too, but I wasn't there.

Anything that you saw from Michigan that did see out of sorts because their system of sign stealing got ripped out from root and branch by the NCAA and everything else this past week. No, I saw a team, first of all, I saw a team in Michigan that got better from the week before. I saw them two weeks ago in Minnesota, and they were better against Michigan State than they were two weeks ago.

So I think it's a team that is getting better and better each week. So I don't think whatever was taken away or not available to them had anything to do with that improvement. On the Michigan State side, I did see them do some things as a precautionary measure. They were having the quarterback run over to the sideline at times, getting the play audibly, huddling a little bit more, running some players in until they got to the second half and they realized, we are so outmatched in this game, it doesn't matter. And they just went back to signaling plays in the second half.

But in the first half, they were taking some precautions, but again, I don't know how much of an effect it had on the outcome of the game. Todd Blackledge here on the Rich Eisen Show from NBC Sports. How good is J.J. McCarthy, Todd? I think he's excellent.

I think he's playing at an elite level. You know, we talk a lot about Caleb Williams, although they've run on, you know, fell on a couple tough times here the last couple weeks. He didn't play bad against Utah. He did play poorly against Notre Dame, but it wasn't all his fault. But Michael Pennix, Jr., Bo Nix playing extremely well, Jayden Daniels, a quarterback at LSU playing as good as anybody, Jordan Travis.

But I would put J.J. McCarthy right up there with all of them. The difference in J.J. is he is playing in very few fourth quarters right now. They're not an offense that is a pass first offense. It's a run first offense, even though he's playing, you know, at a high level. So he's not going to have the same kind of numbers week in and week out that some of the other guys are. But in terms of how he's playing, the efficiency level he's playing with, the production level after the Bowling Green game when he threw those three interceptions. And they were bad decisions and bad places where he put the ball.

Since then, he's been almost unstoppable. And he's so good on third down in his ability to extend plays if it breaks down and just scramble a little bit. But this year, the biggest difference in J.J. this year from last year is when he scrambles this year, he is scrambling to throw. His eyes are downfield. He brings it to the line of scrimmage. He forces the defense to commit. And then he's finding places to throw the football rather than just taking off and running. Now, this sign stealing stuff, Todd, how would it affect, you know, positively an offense run by McCarthy or it really just is something that only benefits the defense against the opposing offense?

What do you think? Yeah, I would say it probably benefits a defense more than an offense because, again, and that's why, again, I don't know how much of an effect it has even back, you know, back in the day when Clemson was championship level. Brent Venables was the defensive coordinator at Clemson. And, you know, he had kind of a reputation where people thought he was able to steal signs and was really good at picking those things up. The problem still is, OK, maybe you know the sign. How quickly can you communicate that to the guys on the field? And today's football with so many teams playing hurry up and no huddle and doing things fast. I mean, how effective is that really? Now, if you have information ahead of time, maybe that gives you a little bit of an edge and gives you a little bit more time.

To adjust. But I think it has more to do with the defense picking up offensive signals and being in the right defensive structure to combat plays that you anticipate are coming, more so than helping an offense. Todd Blackledge here from NBC Sports calling the Ohio State and Wisconsin. How do you see the Ohio State-Michigan matchup that's coming right now, Todd? First of all, I will never call it the Ohio State. So, I mean, I guess I don't know if you're doing that out of respect. No, no, no, I'm doing it.

That's like fingernails on a chalkboard to me. No, no, Todd. And I respect that. The reason why I'm doing it is because I'm a professional and I'm trying to make sure my listeners and viewers aren't confused with another Ohio State. You know what I'm saying, Todd? It could totally leave you betwixt and between like, wait a minute, maybe it's an Ohio State. There's another one.

I'm trying to be helpful is what I'm saying, Todd. Well, I'm an Ohio guy. I'm from Ohio.

I went to the Penn State. Nobody has ever said that, right? So, but, but I got great respect for Ohio State. I just don't want to be. Anyway, I just remember, I think the first time I ever heard that it was Gordon Gee was the president, had the bow tie on the glass and saying the Ohio State.

And ever since I was like fingernails on a chalkboard. But that being said, you know, it's interesting with Ohio State because they are a different team than they've been the last few years. You know, we're used to high level quarterback play, explosive high scoring offense. The defense not really at the same level. This is a different Ohio State team. This is a team right now that's being led by their defense that in Jim Knowles, the defensive coordinator, his second year since coming over from Oklahoma State.

They are playing very, very well. And it's a different kind of defense than they've played in the past. I don't think they're as talented in the back end of their defense as they've been in other years. But they are super talented up front in their front four and their linebackers. And they are counting on their front seven to like control the line of scrimmage. And they're playing a little bit more loose coverage, a little more bend, but don't break it. They're not giving up explosive big plays.

And that's the biggest difference. And that's, you know, last year they had great defensive numbers until they got to the end against Michigan and then against Georgia in the playoff. They gave up a lot of big plays.

They're not giving up big plays right now. And then on offense, you know, Kyle McCord, their new quarterback is getting better each week. He had his moments where he didn't look so good last week against Penn State and a very good defensive team. But he has who I think is the best player in college football to get the football to.

And that's Marvin Harrison Jr. I mean, he in two years in a row now, he has destroyed Penn State. He had 10 catches last year.

He had 11 for 162 and a touchdown this year. And I mean, he is a dominant football player. And and so, you know, in most games that he plays in Ohio State plays, he's the best player on the field. Now, as far as matching up with Michigan, again, this is the best team that I've seen Jim have.

It's the most talented. I've talked to some NFL guys that say they have as many as 17 draftable guys on this roster. They are deep on both sides of the ball. And they seem like a team that is truly on a mission. And they had guys like, you know, Zach Zinter, who could have gone to the NFL, probably been a high draft pick, wanted to come back, you know, wanted to come back and try to win a national championship.

And I think that they are in as good a position as anybody to make that happen. They are really a good football team. So what are your two cents on your alma mater and James Franklin and the record against, you know, Michigan and and the Ohio State?

I mean, so what are your what are your two cents on your alma mater, Tom? Well, you know, that was a very frustrating game for me to watch Saturday. You know, being doing a night game, I was able to watch the whole game before I left to go to the stadium. And it was very frustrating. I mean, you know, it's hard for me to imagine that you could be a top 10 football program and go 0 for 15 at one point on third down. I mean, I don't care how good the defense is that you're going against that.

That should not happen if you're a top 10 football team. So that, you know, their offensive plan was was was disappointing. I thought, you know, they've got these two really good running backs. I thought they got away from the run too soon and put too much pressure on Drew Aller to make things happen against a very good Ohio State defense. So offensively, you know, I thought that was very disappointing. I thought defensively they played well enough to win. I thought their defense was, you know, was toe to toe with Ohio State. And this was a one possession game.

And the biggest, you know, call in the game that that I was very curious about and surprised about was, you know, in a clearly defensive field position game. Penn State had a fourth down and three on their own territory. It was seven and a half minutes to go and three timeouts. And they chose to go for it instead of punt and continue to play field position and defense. And they failed and they gave Ohio State a short field. And, you know, a ten six game went to seventeen to six. And at that point, when it became a two score game, the game was over. And so I thought defensively they played extremely well, but they just have not been able to get over that hump and win one of those games against those two other teams that they have to to to be the kind of elite program they want to be. Well, obviously, Michigan at Penn State coming up in the middle of November has been circled for many reasons now with everything going on with the the, you know, sign stealing and all of that stuff. The fact that Michigan won't have that going into Penn State will be something everyone looks at. But the issue is a scheme play calling in game. Is that what it is, Todd?

Well, I think it's a I think it's a combination of things. You know, they did nothing to threaten they did nothing to threaten the Ohio State defense on Saturday. And, you know, they just kind of played right into their hands. And, you know, so they were ineffective on third down.

So it's partly scheme. And I think the other part is and this has been something that everybody was saying about Penn State coming into the season, the one question mark was wide receiver. You know, now Keondre Lambert Smith is a good receiver. He's not anywhere near the same category that a Marvin Harrison Jr. is or a Mecca Abuka is. But he's a really good receiver.

But the question was, do they have another one? Do they have a second or a third guy? And nobody has emerged as a second or third receiving threat for Penn State to this point in the season. I mean, after Lambert Smith, the next best receivers are their tight ends. They're good players, but it's hard to generate big time explosive plays with tight ends. You know, I mean, you've got to have wide outs that can stretch the field, threaten the defense. And you're not going to win against teams like Ohio State or Michigan or Penn State if you don't generate explosive plays. And explosive play is a run of 10 yards or more or a pass of 20 yards or more.

You are not going to methodically get four or five, six yard gains and go down the field on great defenses. And that, you know, that showed up for Penn State against Ohio State on Saturday. Todd, thanks for the call.

Zoom, let's do this again. And, you know, when I can talk to you maybe a little bit more about your playing career, I'm fascinated about the 83 draft class and things of that nature and being an NFL guy, but really enjoy your coverage. But, you know, you and Noah, great listen. Mike Robb is one of my favorite people to work with in NFL Network. Yeah, yeah.

I mean, he's a Penn Stater as well. And so I just wanted to say all that so people don't think I really enjoy your coverage because it was 49-nothing on your coverage. That was great. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it. Oh, good Lord.

It should have been 56-nothing, as you know. So thank you for the call, Todd. Appreciate it. Yeah, that's Todd Blackledge of NBC Sports. Check out again the Buckeyes and Badgers on Big Ten Saturday night at 730 p.m. Eastern Time on NBC and Peacock. Big cats texting me too. They're all having their fun right now. I'm like, yeah, we need it. I'm so glad we scouted Wisconsin's passing scheme the last several years. It was great.

But if they did something wrong, there should be a consequence. We'll check it all out, won't we? Well, I'll buy a ticket and then look across. Let me know.

Send me the video. Because you know there's a site you can use that you can see. That's what I'm saying.

You can see where the ticket is. How do you think Penn State fans are going to, like hearing Todd Blackledge talk about, yeah, the scheme and the play calling. It's exactly what Penn State fans have been saying. I mean, like that's literally from the talking points from Penn State Nittany Lion fans. And even if they didn't like something Todd Blackledge said, he's won a national championship.

He could say whatever he wants. Well, speaking of Wisconsin football, there he goes. Speaking of Wisconsin football, Joe Thomas is going to join us next. He has an idea on how to stop the brotherly shove. I can't wait to hear it from the Pro Football Hall of Famer.

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Get the podcast wherever you listen. I'm gonna say they've run that place six times this year. What do you got? I say eight. Twenty. Whoa. Already? Twenty.

Wow. There's only two games that they haven't run it. Against the Patriots and they won. Against the Jets.

They didn't run it, they lost. They ran it three times successfully, week two against Minnesota. Two of them from Minnesota's won for touchdowns. Then they did it fourth and one at the Minnesota 28 in the fourth quarter for a first down. They were four for five against Tampa with it. Tampa stopped them on a third goal at the one. Are they 19 for 20?

They're 17 for 20. Two other times they were unsuccessful were against the Rams and the game was pretty much over. Here's the most important though.

Most important. They are six for six, perfect, running the play in their own territory. In their own territory. Nick Sirianni said, let's do it. This is what Sirianni said after the Monday, the Sunday night game in which they ran it.

Look, it's unbelievable. They ran it four times. Five times.

Pardon me. Five times one of them was nullified by an offside. As you know, that was the one where I think there was also one where it was an offside on Miami and then it was called offside on Philadelphia because they thought it was Dickerson's hand on the ground and it was really the left hand of Jason Kelce where he's allowed to do that. If you're the center, you're allowed to put your hand in the neutral zone, your off hand.

This is what Nick Sirianni had to say about it. What psychological edge do you think it gives you guys that you can run that play? It's first and nine every down. You know, every first down is first and nine. Knowing that if you get to fourth and one, shoot, a lot of faith in that play.

Yeah, so it was awesome. Again, just Jason Kelce starts it off. Jalen Hurts is right there. Haven't been able to drive because you've seen it, right? You've seen it across the league that people can't do it like we can do it. They can't do it like we can do it.

And so I'm making my plug right there. Like, don't don't ban this play. Like, if everyone could do it, everybody would.

Where's the camera? If everybody could do it, everybody would do it. Hey, Eagles fans, when you get upset that Robert Sala is talking smack back at you. I mean, how does the rest of the league take that? I find it funny.

I think it's great. I'm a Northeast guy. He's, again, the Philadelphia sports walking id. Phillies fans are a little nervous about tonight at Game 7. We'll talk about that later on.

But for real, it's unstoppable. And you know, I think it's just an ugly play. It is so difficult to spot a football.

Why does it work? Again, I spoke to John Harbaugh in London about it prior to Ravens-Titans. He said, you know, Kelcey just gets down and the quarterback's 240 pounds. Joe Banner, who is a longtime executive with the Eagles, he says it's Landon Dickerson, the left guard. That's the difference maker here, too. And it's not stoppable.

And he's right. First, it's first and nine, says the head coach of the Philadelphia Eagles, every time they get the ball. Yeah, because if it's, honestly, you have the only team in the league where pretty much they only need nine yards for a first down because that last one is a given.

17 to 20, 85 percent success rate. And one time they faked the push play and Hertz pulled out and ran left. That happened against Washington in week four. They've yet to throw out of it. Can you imagine? That's kind of what I've been waiting for.

I mean, it's, so how can you stop it? Back here on the Rich Eisen Show is my Hall of Fame friend. I have not spoken to him since I saw him in his beautiful jacket with his bust. He's pro football Hall of Famer Joe Thomas back here on the program. How are you doing, Joe? I'm doing great, Rich. Thanks for having me on the show. Come on, man.

I saw what you you tweeted out and I just wanted to first of all, it's been too long since I've had you. What's your opinion of this play? I love it. I think it's interesting. It has given us something to talk about. It's captivated all of America because of how effective it's been. But also, I think how the other teams that have tried to replicate it have not been able to do it because at the beginning of the season, people were saying, wow, we need to ban this play. It's unstoppable. It's not football like. But as soon as you saw those other teams try to do it and fail, then I think everybody said, whoa, wait a minute. We can't ban this play because it's just the Eagles execution of it that has made it so perfect. It's not the fact that it's some unstoppable play. So then why is it so difficult to copycat it in this copycat league, Joe? Well, the Eagles offensive line is probably the biggest, most physical offensive line in the NFL.

One, two, their quarterback's what, 240 pounds. And now also they've had a lot of practice at it. It's something that I don't see a lot of teams lining up in training camp and doing this against each other.

So I do think there is a learning curve clearly. And the ability for the Eagles to have executed it properly a bunch of times in game-like scenarios where you're going live, I think it gives them the understanding of the little minutia of the technique that it takes to be able to execute a play that's only trying to get a foot or two. And so you just heard Nick Sirianni say it's first and nine for his team. So what an advantage, clearly, right?

First and nine for your team. So why wouldn't other teams practice it? Why wouldn't they figure out, let's just say somebody's right guard is particularly talented next to a center and go there in the same way that clearly hurts is going to the left side pretty much every single time in between Dickerson and their future Hall of Fame.

You're going to have a bust gallery roommate in Jason Kelsey one day, I think you can agree. So why don't other teams do that? Why don't they get the guys and practice it as long as it is legal, Joe? I can see maybe next training camp teams trying to practice this. But to do that in the season, I think the injury risk is just way too high to try to line your guys up and go at it one after the other with the tush push or the brotherly shove during the season, because you also do have a ton of other stuff to work on. Can you imagine if reports came out that like some critical players like your quarterback maybe got injured in the middle of the season because you're trying to master the brotherly shove, right? Yeah, that would be a headline grabber, to say the least. So what's your philosophy on how to stop it?

What would you do? Yeah, well, I think what you need to do is you need to try to force them to do something else, right? Like you mentioned, like they haven't really thrown out of it. So let's force them to try to throw out of it. And what you want to do is basically what happens is the offense and defensive lines are just creating a pile. And then it's almost like if you've ever seen those hotels in Japan that are just these little tubes that are stacked on top of each other, basically the first level of tubes is your offensive and defensive linemen carcasses that are laying on the ground. And then the pushers for the Eagles are grabbing Jalen Hurts' carcass and sticking them up into the second floor tube and pushing him through that airspace that now is only occupied by the linebackers from the defense.

And it's unfair because nobody's pushing those guys, right? So I think the first thing that you want to do is you want to get a push on the defensive linemen's tush, right? So you line up like they used to do with the field goal block where you get your linebackers behind, and they're actually pushing the tush of the defensive linemen in front of them, right?

So you have pushes going against each other. So you're trying to create a pile and maybe at least stop the surge from the Eagles' offensive line. And then the guys, as soon as things get stopped and you see Jalen Hurts getting pushed over the top, that's when those linebackers need to push Jalen Hurts back, right? But most importantly, you need to put players on the edge to be able to spike down as quickly as possible to knock the pushers off of Jalen because that's really the key to this play. It's not that Jalen is able to keep his legs moving and work his way over the top. It's that he's actually getting his body pushed over the top of all these bodies that are laying on the ground. So what you need to do is go and tackle the pushers. And I know people will say, well, it's holding. You're not allowed to tackle a blocker. Well, those guys aren't blocking. They're pushing Jalen Hurts.

So if you have guys on the edge or big linebackers or maybe even some big defensive ends and you just have them spike down the edge as soon as the Philadelphia Eagles' offensive line wedge, you can maybe knock those pushers off to be able to stop them from pushing Jalen Hurts over the top of the pile. Okay, so let me take this one at a time. First of all, love the analogies. I hope he wrote it down. No, Joe, love the analogies.

Amazing. So it's not about who's the lowest. Is that what you're saying? Because you see some of these defenders get down basically like their chests are almost damn near on the ground that they're prone.

Like those drills that we see at the combine where sometimes they start on their chest and have to jump up and then run around. Well, you're never in that position. It seems like defenders are getting down low. So you're saying it's not... If you get down that low, you're helping the Eagles because they're creating the space for Hurts to basically body surf on top of the line that's protecting him or blocking for him, right?

Is that what you're saying? Yeah, so at first, the Eagles' offensive line was just lower than everybody, right? So they were getting this tremendous surge.

But then everybody realized what was coming. So now they told their defensive lineman, we used to call it root hog, basically just get lower than them and if you create a pile, that's okay. Because now there's just a big pile and nobody else is blocking each other. But the Eagles use that to their advantage because now Jalen Hurts is body surfing on those bodies so he's not touching the ground, so he's not going to be down, right? So then that's where the push comes into play where the Eagles' running backs or tight ends that are in the backfield picking up Jalen Hurts, they're pushing him over the top of those bodies and he's not touching the ground.

So you've got to be able to stop that body surf. It's not about being lower because the pile has already been created in front. So it's getting those pushers off of Jalen Hurts in any way possible so they can't body surf his body across the first down marker. So you would be running the risk if you do put people, as you said, like back in the day, the type of field goal block scheme, if you're just blocking your big body defensive line, you know, de-tackles, if you're putting those folks out there, you are running the risk of maybe them pulling it and like pop passing it, right? This is fascinating to me because this is the way this is going to go and we're going to see this in a big, huge game, Joe.

This is going to happen in November and December for sure. Yeah, I guarantee the Eagles have practiced the other iterations of, OK, you know, when people stop this, what do we do? OK, we fake the push, then we just have a little pop pass or we fake it and then we throw some jet sweep or some option play where we can pitch it to somebody running around. And certainly you're going to have to have your safeties as safety valves to be looking for some of those things when you're on defense. But I think if you're going to try to stop this, you've got to try to sell out just the same way that the Eagles are trying to sell out to get it. And I think that's the only way you can do it.

But that's what's exciting about this play and that's why I don't want it banned and outlawed because there's so many iterations that we haven't even got to yet that are going to be so fun for us to explore as this thing evolves. So which team do you think defensively is best equipped to do what you're saying? You know, just if you go through a roster. I mean, they just played the Rams, for crying out loud, right? I mean, there's Aaron Donald on the other side of it. Who do you think has the ability with the bodies to stop this thing, Joe? Good question. I haven't studied everybody's size and weights on the defensive lines of linebacker, but I would say that actually having huge defensive line, I mean, that's great.

But I think having those big linebackers on the second level might actually be more critical to be able to initially push the defensive line, go over the top to try to stop Jalen Hurts and then having big bodies on the outside or at least fast guys to be able to get to those pushers and either tackle them or knock them off the push would potentially be the most important skills of these players that are going to be out there on the defense. Joe Thomas here on the Rich Eisen Show. If I'm not mistaken, your last year in Cleveland was Miles Garrett's first? Correct.

Okay. What was he like? I mean, he's an absolute complete total monster beast. I cannot wait to chat with him.

He's slated to appear on our show Friday. What was he like showing up off the campus of Texas A&M back in the day? I can't remember ever getting beat by a rookie, but I do remember very, very distinctly the first time I lined up against Miles Garrett, he literally ran right around me and sacked the quarterback on a screenplay, might I add. And that's when I realized this guy is just made a little bit differently.

He's in a different class of human beings. And I'm hoping that you saw the field goal block that he had against the Colts, which is something that I don't think we've ever seen in NFL history. And I don't know if we'll ever see again because of the rules where as a defensive lineman, he has to line up within one yard of the line of scrimmage. He has to jump high enough to be able to get over all of the field goal blockers, but also far enough from a standstill to be able to not touch them as he's leaping through the air, land on the ground with a lot of force because it takes a lot of force to take 275 pounds in the air, 60 inches to jump far and high over the blockers on the field goal. And then as soon as you hit the ground, the reactivity in his feet to be able to jump back up into the air with enough speed to be able to block a field goal.

I honestly, when I watch it every time, I'm amazed. He's the most freakish athlete that I've ever been on a football field with. And the play that he had blocking that field goal against the Colts, I don't even know if we'll ever see him doing it again because guys will be prepared for it. And all they have to do is touch him and it's a penalty and the offense gets a first down then. Yeah, and I imagine an offensive lineman seeing an opponent practice his crossover dribble pre-snap would cause you to say, get out of here with this. But I imagine that's got to be intimidating, sort of like Jason in a hockey mask coming around the corner. You know what I mean? That's got to resonate pre-snap, Joe, right?

Don't you think? Yeah, I'm changing my shorts when I get to the sideline. And can you imagine he's doing this over guys that are on the inside. They don't usually see guys with that quickness. And the first sack of his career actually came where he was lined up over a guard and he just cross-faced.

He didn't do the crossover dribble with his hands, but he did the crossover dribble with his legs. And his ability to change direction where he can just step quickly with his right foot, put that foot in the ground and then go from the B gap all the way to the A gap or even the far A gap. He covers so much ground, it's like he's teleporting from one side of the line of scrimmage to the other. And for these guards, Aaron Donald's the quickest guy that played defensive tackle, probably in NFL history. But when Miles lines up right there, he's quicker than Aaron Donald with his ability to cross over and change gaps.

He's amazing. And a large reason, obviously, why the Browns are 4-2. Deshaun Watson, day-to-day, as termed by Kevin Stefanski, before he went out of the game against the Colts, he just didn't look good at all.

I mean, straight up. And P.J. Walker is looking fine enough, I guess is the only words to say. What are your, in the Browns defense, I know Gardner Minshew had his day, but we just talked about Miles Garrett. What is your opinion of the Browns' viability to win this division and make some particular playoff hay, Joe? I think it was the first four weeks of the season they lost the turnover battle and they were 2-2. So what that tells me is that if they can take care of the football, this defense is so good that they're going to be in every game no matter what their offense does.

And obviously, I think everybody hopes Deshaun Watson is going to be able to come back and be healthy because if they want to win the Super Bowl and make a run, they need to have legitimate play from the quarterback position. But to your point, he was one for five with an interception and five yards in that game before he got injured and left the game. So they were still able to win that one with P.J. Walker. They beat the Niners the week before with P.J.

Walker. And really, I think until they play the high-end guys, the best teams in the AFC, they're going to need to be able to have really good defensive play. And they're also going to have to have a great job of just taking care of the football and playing old-school football.

Run the ball, take care of the ball, play special teams, battles, and hope that your defense is going to continue to play at the level that they've been playing. But I mean, the way the Ravens just punked the Lions, do you think it's their division right now or the Browns clearly can still play this type of football too, Joe? Yeah, they're going to have a hard time keeping up with the Ravens without Deshaun Watson playing good football at quarterback because Lamar Jackson's probably playing his best football right now. And that's a complete team. I thought the Lions were the most balanced team in the NFL. I thought that they were a team that would be able to keep up with the Philadelphia Eagles because they played a physical style because they've got great offensive and defensive lines.

But the way the Ravens just handled them, I'm a little nervous for my brownies because this Ravens team is legit and they might be the most balanced team now in the NFL outside of the Philadelphia Eagles. Joe, you're the man. I said this to you that night when I saw you. Your speech was awesome. How was a day?

I mean, now that you're weeks, months removed from your induction, what are your memories so far? Still riding high. I reached that moment from the gold jacket dinner when my kids came on stage and surprised me and hugged me. It's probably going to go down when I'm sitting in my rocker as the greatest day, greatest moment of my life. And I actually have the picture right here over my shoulder. Right here.

It's it's of course, shiny because my my light guy sucks over here. He's getting fired along with my hair and makeup. But that's the moment right there. My four kids surprised me because they told us that family was not a lot on stage and we could take a picture right when we got off stage.

But being the last person and being, you know, in my hometown, I feel like they a little bit for me. And so when I was on stage and they rushed up and they kind of tackled me from behind and my youngest daughter, Reese, who's five, just jumps up into my arms. And you could see in that picture, she was so embarrassed by being in front of the crowd. She just buried her head in tears.

She's in my neck. It was beautiful. And then my son's holding my hand and just looking into the crowd like, yeah, who wants some? Because he's a little football player.

So he's got that football mindset. My daughter's looking up just with pride. And it's it was beautiful. It was a beautiful moment. It was you know, I had the view from the podium on down.

It was just beautiful to watch. And I'm glad you were surprised because, Joe, it was only turned about that you surprised everyone. You chose a Steeler and Jerome Bettis jacket on you.

Why did you do that? I mean, a lot of Browns fans were like, wait a minute, are we being punked right around here? We're just using a Steeler here in Canton, Ohio. But why did you choose JB? Why did you choose him? I felt I felt that the Steeler setting the table for me. It was the best way to do it. But no, Jerome Bennett's been a friend of mine for a long time since they got in the NFL.

Same agents. And I've always had a lot of respect how he carried himself, how he conducted himself, how he gave back to his community in Detroit and Pittsburgh. And as a player, take the helmet off. He was one of my favorite players of all time. And I felt like it was such an honor going into the Hall of Fame, becoming a member of the Gold Jacket team instead of Steelers and Browns.

It was symbolic in my head of kind of breaking down those barriers and becoming teammates. And I just had so much pride being able to be on that stage with such a great human being like Jerome Bettis. You're the man, Joe. That was beautiful.

I'm glad that we had a chance to review it weeks later. And thanks for the time here. I'd love to have you back on as the season goes on so I could hear your thoughts. And plus, there's lots more things I'm curious about on your walls. So there's a lot of stuff back there. So I appreciate you having me on. You got it.

That's Joe Thomas, a pro football Hall of Famer through and through right here on The Rich Eisen Show. Fascinating stuff. I got to tell you. That conversation.

About the X's and O's and the schematics and what can be played off in the. And the gamesmanship. You like it a little bit more. I'm beginning to turn on the brotherly shove. I'm beginning to turn on it.

I got I got to be honest with you. I'm learning more about it. I thought it was just get up there and shove and it's just create a scrum. There's more to it here.

I kind of dig it now that I heard that Joe Thomas made me a convert. You know, nothing in football is just mindless, though. Oh, yeah, sometimes it is. For the Deontay Johnson saying shush and blown blown blown at an advantage of a first down.

I mean, there's some mindless stuff that's a little different. All right, we'll take a break. Eight four four two or four rich number to dial Jackson Smith and Jigba. Let's talk about the Texas Rangers winning the American League pennant. That's next. Susie Schuster and Amy Trask present offbeat conversations and expert sports commentary as they ask, what the football? When my family found out how long it took me to figure out why Charles Woodson named his wine intercept. They said there's a reason that you had trouble in school. You know, not everyone knows, you know, what they think about a little intercept. They don't know that I play football. Well, what I've learned is a smooth defensive back can make smooth wine.

That's what it's all about. What the football with Susie Schuster and Amy Trask. The podcast is available Tuesdays wherever you listen. Welcome back to the oh, by the way, YouTube dot com slash Rich Eisen Show for all of that good stuff. Back on the Rich Eisen Show radio network, sitting at the Rich Eisen Show desk, furnished by Granger with supplies and solutions for every industry. Granger has the right product for you.

Call click Ranger dot com or just stop by. Congratulations to Texas Rangers fans. What a run for them. Adolis Garcia is going to obliterate unless he falls off the World Series map. He's going to obliterate the record for most runs batted in any single postseason. He has been a dynamo closing out the Astros for the Rangers with not one, not two, but three straight games with a home run and three runs batted in. Nobody's ever done that in a single postseason. And he did it, as we all know, the first of the three game run in a game five that the Astros came back and won in large part with him.

I think icing his own closer because, you know, he got hit by a Braille and created such a conundrum. He runs high. He ran hot.

I mean, I guess. And if you're Bruce Bochy, it's like keep running hot or whatever, whatever it takes. And then he comes back in game six, has a golden sombrero and homers anyway. Grand slam with a grand slam to keep this thing going.

And then last night, this thing was a wrap pretty much from jump as Corey Seeger jacked one 440 feet out. Scherzer, you know, gave it a go. I clearly that's not the Scherzer that we've we've seen before, but the Rangers are in and they eliminate the Astros. And, you know, is that the end of Dusty Baker's career manager managing career?

It looks like it. And Altuve and Bregman are on their final years of their contract next year. Alex, you know, you know why you were number two and where, you know, your heart lies. Oh, get out of here.

Of course, I want him in pinstripe. You guys got enough money? I mean, there's enough. It's star insurance, star insurance patches. More patches, more patches, more patches for Bregman, patches for Bregman. Hashtag it.

Start that. But in all seriousness, how Bruce Bochy just put him in Cooperstown. Yeah, I think he was in there anyway.

Already think so. First manager in the history of Major League Baseball to win. Three LCS is for three different teams.

He did it for the. And by the way, not like I mean, the San Francisco Giants being one. I mean, the Giants are not like any downtrodden organization.

How do how do the Padres and Rangers try those on for size? Right. And then this is a fascinating stat I saw last night in the old X machine.

Thanks to Elias Sports. Bochy was 43 when he won the NLCS with San Diego in 1998. He's now 68. The only other manager to reach a World Series at age 43 or younger and then age 68 or older is Connie Mack.

Wow. Right. And maybe his greatest achievement is turning our oldest Chapman into a strike thrower. Although what McCormick last night would beg to differ, take him one off his leg in the eighth inning of that one. But Chapman still throwing. Yes, I know.

Throwing sweet Cooper, because he knows how I feel about him. He turns to me when he dots the corner at one hundred and one, he turns because, dad, one hundred and one for a strike. Does that make you upset? But he's not doing that to troll me.

Just being sweet about it. Are you upset? I'm like, yeah, I'm not happy about it. But congratulations to them. Congratulations to Texas Rangers waiting for either the Phillies or the Diamondbacks tonight. The Diamondbacks cannot be taken out. Let's see if the Phillies can finally do it this evening in Philadelphia at Game seven. These two series. I thought there would be sweeps both going to seventh game after they won Game six last night.

That was a rocking chair game for Arizona before Monday Night Football. I got to say, little interest in some of these series. They're teams you don't watch throughout the whole season.

You know, maybe you have a guy or two in the fantasy. But these games have been they've been great. Unbelievable. They've been such fun watches. If you are a baseball fan, they have been fun watches. They've been intense. I've enjoyed, by the way, you know, on TBS, I really enjoy Brian Anderson and Frank Core and other ones.

And Ron Darling. I'm looking forward to the call tonight. Yeah, it's gonna be a lot of fun. Jackson Smith and Jigba of the Seattle Seahawks will be joining us. I've got a top five list of the top five NFL players I'd go all in for at the trade deadline. That's coming up in our number three and your phone calls at eight four four two oh four rich number to dial.

Also, that sound you hear from television executives. Oh, no, wait. That's that's some ESPN executives looking at McAfee going, please don't. Please don't hurt us. That's number one.

Number two. The really the real noise you're hearing on Pico Boulevard, where Mike gets his paychecks. Those those are the ones down on their hands and knees looking at the baseball gods and saying, please, Philadelphia, please. No offense to the Arizona fans, please. No offense to the Arizona fans, please. Phillies like on the on the home chest. What do we got? You know, they're praying to their Murdoch Sun gods, please, please, please, please.

The human fire hydrant. Let him crank one out. Lachlan and James, you know, let's get all everyone with long hair. Let's get them going. They want to fill his bag.

Castellanos son. Let's get all of them down on their hands and knees. Praying that the Philly, you know, that the Phillies make it. Mark, I want you to have my cheese truck. They want cheesecake cheese. Tell me I'm wrong. And I know Diamondback fans will be like, you know what? That's rude. Get out of here. I mean, listen, you are a great team.

That guy, Marte. They're awesome. By the way, record for a hitting streak to start your playoff career. Fifteen games. Crazy.

But they got a hope chest, man, and it's out. Every Monday, Rich Eisen and Chris Brockman react to what's happening in the world of football on overreaction Monday. Dolphins final four AFC team. Oh, that is not an overreaction at all. I'm with you. You're in. I am in the other three final four teams. If you ask me to call my shot, this is the overreaction Monday podcast. Call your shot. Entertainment purposes only.

Unless I'm right. Chiefs. Dolphins. Bills. Ravens. Ravens. Final four overreaction Monday. The podcast wherever you listen.