What the Football with Suzy Shuster & Amy Trask: NFL Week 4 with Kurt Warner

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Download GameTime today, last minute tickets, lowest prices guaranteed. Amy Trask, hello my friend, how are you? I'm well, how are you? And by the way, very cool that we have our own code WTF on GameTime. And that's a big deal. We're coming correct here. You know who's not coming correct here? Your Raiders. What the football is happening in Las Vegas? I'd love to give you points for that segue, but yeah, it kind of hurts and I feel for Raider fans. See, I'm not sure that it's not too early to make that decision.

And here's why. Current coach and GM, 21 games into their tenure. 17 games last year, four games this year. And the only reason I note that is the example we're seeing in Dan Campbell in Detroit. First season, won three games.

Second season as head coach, started out one and six, ended nine and eight. And look at the Lions this season. And again, I note that simply to raise the point that it may, not necessarily is, but may be too soon to reach sweeping conclusions about the coach and GM in Las Vegas.

But I will note this. If there are things going on behind the scenes, failures in leadership, fractures within the organization, lack of maturity and guidance and leadership, that's a different story, but we're not there. We don't know these things. But how do we not know these things? Devante Adams was furious last week.

Now we have Josh Jacobs. Let's listen to a little bit of sound first, then I'll ask you to react on the other side. For me, it's frustrating, man. I'm tired of losing. Just keeping on hunting. I'm tired of losing, man.

And I mean, I feel like every day I go in there and I work my ass off. So eventually something got to give. The fact that it's close, is it like, okay, we're right there or is it just... Nah, man, that make it worse. That make it worse, man, because that just means, you know, five to six plays, you do them right. Difference in the outcome of the game. But at the same time, you're tired of saying five or six plays, difference in the outcome of the game. It's just time to do that. There's some frustration there to be had, right?

Now let me just review this with you. So we know that they lost or they won the first week, week one against Denver, right? 17-16. Week two, it was a 38-10 blowout at Buffalo, okay? Week three, 23-18 home versus Pitt. Week four, 24-17 Chargers got that one. The Chargers sacked Aidan O'Connell seven times, seven, six times by Khalil McElhone.

So that's ugly already. We had that pick six on the third yard line. That was the dagger of the game. We know that. One sack away, by the way, from the record set by Derek Thomas against, so that Aidan O'Connell basically spent a lot of time on his back, right? And we're hearing players not just opine about the system or their own performance, but it feels like, it feels like a lot of finger pointing and being directed their unhappiness with the organization as a whole. So what do you think, how would an organization react when they hear their players that vocal?

All right, well, I'm going to say two things right now that may sound as if they're mutually inconsistent, but they're not. I will say of Josh Jacobs, the same thing I said last week about Devante, which is these men are speaking the moment the game is over, they walk into the locker room, teams were allowed to close the locker room for just a couple of moments, and then they go wide open, press comes in, microphones in their face, they are expressing frustration. And I'm going to say the same thing this week I said last week or when last we spoke about this. I think it's wrong for people to expect and demand of players that they play with passion and emotion and then criticize them in any manner whatsoever for being passionate and emotional after the game. You can't expect or demand of a player to be passionate and emotional on the field and expect that player to just turn it off with a switch after the game.

So point one is that Josh is doing the same thing we discussed with respect to Devante. He was speaking from the heart. That was emotion.

I do not fault either of those players for sharing their emotion. All right, the second point, and again, they're not mutually exclusive. There may be something more there going on, and that's why I referenced that when you asked, what the heck is going on and what do the Raiders do? If they believe this is simply X's and O's and it's going to get fixed, as was the case in Detroit, Dan Campbell, we've seen what he has done, that's one thing. If there are things going behind the scenes and you noted, there may well be. If there is a lack of leadership, if there is a lack of focus, if there is a lack of, I guess I'll use the word leadership again, that's an entirely different thing.

But you asked, what does an organization do? One of the issues involves finance. I don't know off the top of my head how many years remain on the coach or GM contracts. But if there are years remaining, there is money owed. And so one of the things ownership will take into account in addition to that, which we've just discussed, is how much are they willing to pay for dead time, if you will. Right, I would imagine. Think back and rack back your brain.

I always talk about this idea of a library card catalog. When you have this kind of losing culture, have you lived through things like that with your experience at the Raiders where suddenly you have players who are vocal or disgruntled, you're in a system maybe or in a time when you're losing games and that losing culture kind of becomes pervasive? Well certainly there were periods of time during my years with the Raiders which were thrilling and exciting and wonderful. And then there were times that you just described where multiple losing seasons in a row.

No particular player comes to mind, and to use a full-to-all expression, I'm not simply looking to punt, no particular player comes to mind. But yes, there were thoughts shared both within the organization. And what I'm not remembering Susie is whether any of the men who shared with me thoughts directly also shared them publicly. Look, I remember the year that I was there that Dennis Allen was the head coach. There was essentially a line out my door of players wanting to come in or players coming in and sharing how bothered they were with what was going on within the organization.

But I don't remember anyone sharing it publicly. You know it's funny you bring that up. I wonder if you feel, because so many of the men who play in the National Football League were raised by women, do you think that sometimes the players felt more comfortable coming to you?

Well the easy and honest answer is I don't know. I certainly conveyed regularly that my door was always open to anyone and everyone in the organization. I believe the four most important words in any business, not just sports, are communicate, cooperate, collaborate, coordinate and that was a message I shared throughout the organization. That may have been what encouraged players to come talk to me. Maybe they were more relaxed talking to me. Certainly my hunches, they were more relaxed talking to me than they would be going into Al's office, although he also had an open door policy. Maybe they felt comfortable sharing it with me because they figured, well that'll be easier than going into Al's office and sharing it with him.

I don't know the answer to your question. Which players came in to see you when you were sitting there in your office during the Allen years? Oh a ton. A ton of players.

Defensive, offensive. Players were not happy with the, I'll use the word ambiance. Some people use the word culture.

I don't like that word. Didn't you say who they were? I'll have to think about it. You're going to have to give my brain that 15. We always joke around and I'm the same way that oftentimes Al asking me a question and there's a 15 second delay. Oftentimes people ask me something and then I'll remember it in the middle of the night and ping people.

They think I don't sleep because I really don't. But what were they talking about with you? What were the questions that they'd come up with?

And it wasn't just players. It was people from throughout the organization. Well the first thing Dennis did when he came into the organization was hold a big press conference and got up on, not a press conference, I'm sorry, a staff meeting.

Well he did both. There was a press conference announcing him. And then there was a staff meeting and he invited everyone in the organization and I thought well that's off to a good start. And then he began the staff meeting by saying I know here at the Raiders you have a lot of traditions and a lot of history and you believe in a lot of things that Al talked about. And this is my words, not his. This is not an exact quote but this was the message that was conveyed. Yeah no we're not doing that anymore. Yeah and everyone kind of looked around the room and thought alright let's give him the latitude to build what he wants and it just wasn't a match.

We had those years after years at Fox. It was constantly, all of a sudden a new regime and then a new set of traditions that would go shoved asunder and everyone had to reinvent the wheel when all you really had to do was cooperate, collaborate, etc. Communicate, cooperate, collaborate, coordinate.

Those four words are the most important to any business. So true. I will tell you about my weekend since we talked about some of these kind of crazy moments for all these Raiders fans. Let me just transition this over to watching the Sunday Night Football game with Rich Eisen. I have been very vocal about, you know I'm a Patriots fan. I've never in my entire life become a Jets fan and I was in the last five minutes of Sunday Night Football.

And let me just set the table, people say what it's like, what's it like watching a game with Rich? It's been really tough. There's been a lot of screaming. There's been a lot of tears in my house. There's been a lot of throwing things at the screen. There's been a lot of, Rich sounded like a cat, like someone had stepped on a cat the other night.

We heard howling the other night. And I've been very vocal about saying that I think the vitriol towards Zach Wilson is absolutely uncalled for. But the way that Zach Wilson showed moments of really being not only just a capable quarterback, but a high functioning quarterback on Sunday night, had it not been for a bunch of drops, I think Garrett Wilson dropped the ball. I know a tight end. There were a couple balls that went through it, a couple hands, a couple low passes. But he played like a quarterback playing to win and I don't think it was just because Aaron Rodgers had come and was on the sidelines.

We know he's working with him a bit. It wasn't just because Taylor Swift was in the building or Travis Kelsey and Patrick Mahomes, et cetera, but he played great. But I will say this, my kid's tutor came in the middle, so I was in the kitchen trying to clean the kitchen for the 75th time on a Sunday. And I heard Rich howling like a wounded animal several times. And at the end of the game when he opened the door, he just looked like he'd been kicked in the stomach. It was like week one all over again. But we're going to talk about this very thing soon with Kurt Warner when he calls in. And let me just make one point real quickly so we don't get besieged by Jets fans, by the way, some of whom I'm related to. When I said of you, how could you be a Jets fan? That was not in any way, let me go law school on you, direct or indirect, express or implied that one shouldn't be a Jets fan. It's just that I know you're a Patriots fan. I am. And as a Patriots fan, you can't simply convert your allegiance. No.

Other than to care for your husband. No. And I don't, I mean, if he loses, it's his fault. He's a Jets fan, right? I mean, that's the way I look at things.

That's his own fault. I raised our kids to be Patriots fans because I wanted them to be winners. Although, oh my God, what is happening in New England? I mean, what's happening when I get coffee in the morning and I get confronted by a Patriots fan. So tell me what happened because we're everywhere, by the way, and I mean, confronted in a sense, 6 a.m. this morning, I'm at my local surfy surfy beach shop or coffee shop. And by the way, you know me well, Suzy, you know, I do not say any brand or any business name on air if they're not sponsoring us.

So that's the only reason I'm not saying the name. But there I was 6 a.m. when the beachy beachy place where I get coffee in the morning opens up and I'm in line. Did I mention seven times that it was 6 a.m.?

6 a.m. 6 a.m. Guy standing next to me in line. There were two men.

One's wearing a Patriots hat. He starts talking to me. It's clear. He's familiar with me. And the first thing he says to me was, you know, it wasn't a fumble.

And all I'm thinking is, dude, it's 6 a.m. Can I just get my coffee? And then he goes on to say, you know, I listened to the podcast you and Suzy Schuster do. And I said, wow, thank you very much. Appreciate that. And he says, and this is a quote, I like Suzy.

Kind of had flashbacks to junior high when I wasn't the cool kid and I didn't even really get to hang with the cool kids. But I just looked at him and laughed and I said, well, I like Suzy too. Oh, God. And did he at least buy your coffee? You know, no, he didn't. Now that I think about it. All right. He's we appreciate the fans by our coffee next time.

At least wait for 601. Let's go back to Mac Jones. And it was interesting is everything relates back to this podcast.

Let's get egocentric. So we have been talking about Bill Belichick a lot. A lot of traction around your story about how you had kind of thought about having him as the head coach for the Raiders.

I'm sorry. I think you actually meant to say how I recommended to Al that he hire him. You're a lawyer. I'm putting it, I'm making it sound bigger and better. Okay. I'm embellishing.

Yeah. But you thought about he would be a good fit as a Raider. And I'll tell you something. All of us bitter Patriots fans now are wondering where's the magic bill. Did the magic leave the room the day the music died when Tom Brady left Mac Jones's stats.

Okay. Let me just tell you the stats. Cause these really tell the story.

12 of 21, 150 yards passing along with three turnovers, two interceptions, one fumble. Amy, do you think there's anything to be said that it's maybe not bill drives me nuts that people always have to make. And I shouldn't say all people, not everyone does this, but a lot of people make things into an either or here's a little secret in life. Kids, not everything is either or not.

Everything is mutually exclusive or mutually inconsistent. It is very fair to say bill Belicheck is an extraordinarily good head coach. I think he's the best of all time, modern era for Shirley.

Sure. And Tom Brady is an extraordinarily good quarterback and they meshed. But before people say it was all Tom, cause look at bill now, take a look at the Patriot roster. This is not all bill. Big, big, big question marks as to whether Mac Jones is the right quarterback.

There's other holes on the roster. And I'm going to say it again cause it really sticks in my craw. Not just as relates to bill and Tom, but any issue, not everything has to be either or do you want ice cream or do you want cookies? Both.

I like both. Yeah. What's the biggest hole in their roster? Well, I think they need to figure out whether Mac Jones is the right quarterback or not. But I think they need more help. They've improved a bit over the last couple of years.

You look back a year or so ago, no weapons. I hate that word. I don't know why I use that word.

That's not a good word. Skill position players. I think they, the defense, Oh, by the way, the whole experiment with Matt, Patricia and the offense last year should improve this year with that experiment at an end. But I think they have holes on the roster and I think they have a big decision to make as to whether Mac Jones is the right quarterback or not. Now, by the way, whoever your quarterback is, you got to protect him. But protecting the quarterback is not always on the offensive line or other offensive players. The quarterback has to do smart things as well. There's a lot of issues there and I just, I bristle at the, well, see, it wasn't Belichick. It was Brady.

Guess what? They can both be phenomenal. Sometimes you just capture that lightning in a bottle time and it really was chemistry. I mean, I remember being around the team so much during the Drew Bledsoe years and I feel like there's a little weird similarity with Mac Jones where you really feel like you have somebody special and they really thought Drew Bledsoe was the second coming when he first got there. And then obviously if it wasn't for that injury that he had, was it the year of the Super Bowl that he got injured and Tom took over? I don't even remember.

I think it was. And it wasn't, it was, I believe the year of Tom's first Super Bowl was the year that Bledsoe got hurt and didn't really ever come back. And that's the thing with, you don't really know what you're getting in these quarterbacks. And now we're in a situation yet again where the difference is they had no idea what they had in Tom. Or maybe they did. Maybe Bill knew that he had taken this kid.

Nobody else knew. He was drafted, if I recall correctly, drafted 199th. Is that, am I right on that?

I think I am right. And there's a message in that to a lot of people. And by the way, Tom delivered that message to Robert Kraft when he was drafted in essence. And again, not a direct quote, but saying, just wait till you see what you got in me. And again, that's me paraphrasing.

But you know what, if you're drafted where you think you shouldn't be drafted or like Kurt Warner, who's going to join us today, you're not drafted at all. Or your sixth grade teacher tells your mom you'll never make it to college. Yeah, that was my sixth grade teacher.

You know what, just prove everyone wrong. Yeah, you were right by the way. 199th, sixth round in the 2000 draft.

Yeah, 199th. I remember that. Kind of proud. It's amazing you remember that.

I can't remember what I had for breakfast yesterday, but the fact that you remember that is incredibly impressive. And I also remember my sixth grade teacher calling my mother in and saying, I know your two older kids are really very, very bright. This one, not so much.

Don't count on her getting into college. And why did I hear him say that? Because he kicked me out of the room, but those little windows they called transoms were open and I could hear every word. And I will never forget my mother laying into this sixth grade teacher saying, how dare you judge a child at this age and tell someone what that child can or can't do.

Well, you know what? Tom Brady drafted 199th. He proved everyone who didn't draft him wrong. Kurt Warner, who was never drafted and is in the Pro Football Hall of Fame, proved everyone wrong.

No, you're right. Words hurt. Words make an impact. And that's why I want to talk about what happened on Sunday Night Football with Rodney Harrison. Of course, I think about him as a patriot safety and we think about him as the Sunday Night Football host. And the words that he said, referring to Zach Wilson, I thought were well beyond the pale. Let's take a listen to what he said to Chris Jones was that better tonight than what you anticipated. He would be watching him on tape.

And you could be honest. Honestly, if I'm being completely honest, we knew it was going to be a battle. He's continuing to get better week in and week out. And he's continued to lead week in and week out. But watching that tape, man, you got to look at this dude. Oh, he is garbage. Like we should.

We should really tear him apart. Like I said, that was a special man. You just got to give the guy time. You know what I mean? Wait, wait, wait, wait. Did you say Zach Wilson is special?

Yeah. I think he had a special night, but I don't think he's special. I've got to prove that you're special because you proved it over a course.

He's not special. I'm just saying, Chris. I mean, I just think that is so beyond the pale, so rude, so uncalled for to go that far. You'd think that there was some kind of unwritten rule for a player upon player violence like that. But to call a man garbage, I thought Chris Jones showed incredible class reacting to that. Absolutely agree.

That's the first place I was going to go with this. I thought Chris Jones handled that magnificently because he was on the spot. It's postgame.

He's being interviewed and he handled that superbly. So that was my first thought. But, you know, there's a difference between sharing criticism, being direct and forthright and honest and just being mean. And, you know, I get it. I sound like an eight year old when I say don't be mean. But there's no need to be mean. You know, I talk about this all the time on social media. People can disagree with one another, but do so agreeably.

Well, you know what? You can state a fair criticism about a player's performance without being mean about it. And I thought Chris reacted spectacularly. Yeah, we're taping this on a Tuesday and we don't know whether or not he's publicly apologized.

I don't believe he has yet. Robert Sala saying that he had reached out and called him a good man. But I got to tell you, you can apologize after the fact. But when you say things the way you did, I don't know. I don't really know if you actually mean it. Micah Parsons actually put out a tweet about it.

Love to read this for you guys. Bro, honestly, I'll never understand media. This platform should have been a moment to praise the Chiefs and they win. This guy is trying to completely, trying to tear Zach Wilson down. I don't get it.

I honestly hope Zach Wilson proves a lot of these people wrong. And, you know, I take offense when you say media because not all of us are ripping a new one. And also it's a player. It's not like some guy who's never played the game. That's where I find that's where I take such umbrage to this.

If you played the game, you know how hard it is to play this game at a high level. That's where I just think it's absolutely uncalled for. We're going to talk to Kurt Warner about this in just a second. I want to hold you there because Kurt's checking in right now. But we're going to stop for a second and talk about Game Time because they are our sponsor.

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Get the podcast wherever you listen. And Kurt Warner joins us now as promised. And Kurt, what is your reaction to what's happening with Zach Wilson and the vitriol directed to him, especially by Rodney Harrison?

I mean, you guys know as well as I do. There's always two sides to all of us is that, you know, I've had some issues, you know, since becoming an analyst of how you do your job and how you analyze players and try to be honest and give criticism where criticism is new, yet never attacking the person. Right. I always say I attack the problem, don't attack the person. And I think that can be a fine line or, you know, oftentimes we can have people that go over the line. And and I think in that situation with Rodney, it felt like he went over the line like it was. I'm attacking the person as opposed to attacking just the play because, you know, I think all of us, you know, that are have watched it and are in the business understand that Zach hasn't played well when he's been the starter.

And those are just facts. And as a former player, I understood that when I played that, you know, somebody wrote an article about me playing a bad game. I knew if I played a bad game, I wasn't going to get mad at the person for, you know, for pointing those things out.

But I think there is there is a way to do it. And I think, you know, when you get into the media and, you know, you get into that position, you have to be able to walk that fine line and do your job because the best analysts out there do their job and they analyze and they say when things are wrong or when things need to be better. But you do it in such a way that, you know, you're trying to teach and you're trying to show people what's going on and not doing it in a way to attack anybody. Yeah, because this felt more personal. This felt meaner. That's the thing that really bothers us.

And, you know, to call a man garbage. I just think as a former player that it crosses lines in a different way. It's one thing if you know that you're not playing well, but it's become it's become cruel with Zach Wilson.

I don't know how this kid gets out of bed in the morning and then he goes out and has an incredible performance on Sunday night. But I feel like there has to be a difference there. Have you ever seen it this personal, this mean, this directed? I mean, I can't necessarily recall situations, but I know I have. I mean, I know that there's plenty of people in our business that have got personal with people and made it personal. And it was just something when I got into the business that I wanted to figure out how to do it the right way. So it was never attacking, you know, someone.

And it was using the platform to be able to lift people up and help people. And I also think the hard part to like, you know, we'll use Zach Wilson as an example, is that here's a young kid that was drafted high. And when you're drafted high, obviously everyone else has expectations for you.

I look at this situation and I say, I think Zach's in a situation that he's not really ready for right now. And we criticize and we scrutinize these individuals. Justin Fields is another one to me that they get thrown in and because they've been thrown in or because somebody drafted them in a certain place, we think everybody should be ready for, you know, that position. And it's not always the case. It takes time.

And some of these guys are thrown in there. And then we criticize them for something that they're just not ready for at this point in time. And that to me is another thing that's hard. You have to be realistic about the situation and realistic about these individuals and say, it's okay not to be ready at times, right?

It's okay to take some time. And I didn't get my first start in the NFL till I was 28, right? I got cut.

I had to play a read-a-fly to do a lot of different things before I got that opportunity. And, you know, it's funny with Mooch on our set, we joke all the time, you know, he's the guy that cut me, you know, but he said numerous times, you know, you weren't ready at the time. And I fully believe that. I mean, I sat on the bench for four years in college, you know, Zach Wilson didn't play a lot of games in college. And so I needed to play more football so I could be ready for that position. And some of these guys are just thrown in just because they're drafted, just because, you know, they're the next guy up. And they're not necessarily ready for the position. And I think that's another place we have to take as media is we have to step back sometimes and understand the tough situation some of these guys are putting. And, you know, if they're not ready, I can't just sit there and blame Zach, like, well Zach's not ready so he's garbage or whatever. It's just like he needs time. He needs time to grow and needs time to become that guy or at least for us to see if he can become that guy. And I just think he was thrown in too early and now we're seeing some of the ramifications of that. And, you know, it's too bad because I think he's a good kid that's trying to do his best and trying to learn and trying to learn on the fly.

But it just takes time to get really good at this position. You know, Kurt, you said many, many, many wise things. I loved all of your observations, but one in particular stuck with me. And I'm paraphrasing you, not quoting you, but you said in essence, address the problem, don't attack the person.

And that takes me back to when I was a little, little, little kid. And at one point I said to my mom of someone in my class, she's stupid. And my mother stopped me immediately and said, don't ever call a person stupid. Say they did a stupid thing. They made a stupid decision. Those are fair things to say, but don't call a person stupid. And in essence, my mom was telling me as a little girl, what we are now agreeing upon at this moment, which is go ahead and critique a player's performance, but you don't need to, as Susie said, call that player garbage.

Yeah, I think you're right. You know, when I coached high school football, it was something that I always got up in front of my players early on and told them, I said, you know, every time we get in here and watch film or we're on the field, I'm going to attack every problem. And sometimes you're going to be at the heart of that problem, right?

We're on film. And I got to point out to you because you didn't do the right thing. It's not because I don't love you or, you know, that I just want to point you out or, you know, we want to make you the set. It's because I want you to be better and I want us to be better. And so that becomes our role as analysts. What I believe my role is and how I take it is a lot of times when I'm analyzing things, I'm hoping that it gets back to a guy like Zach Wilson or a guy, even the guy like Tom Brady, whatever I'm saying, because I believe in it, that maybe it's something that they can take and apply and get better from, or maybe it's a young kid that wants to be the next Tom Brady that can pull from it. And so, but I think it is important to always remember that perspective when we go into anything, because in every job, you guys know it as well as I do, every business, you've got to attack the problem. I mean, you've got to point out where there's issues and let people know what they're not doing well enough, but there is, you know, there is a way to do it that obviously is better than others. And that, you know, gets people to kind of galvanize and want to work and want to listen and want to be better as opposed to just, you know, kind of turn the other direction and just go, I don't ever want to talk to, you know, that person again.

And it's a fine line. I mean, I know that I've had times on the NFL network where individuals have chosen not to do interviews with me because, you know, I did a breakdown of something, you know, that they did or a game that they played and simply just breaking it down from my perspective to teach people, you know, but it's sensitive. None of us like to hear when we don't do something well or when we're not playing well, but I think that is the other side of it. As players, we have to understand that, like, you guys were saying something about me playing a bad game. I have to understand, well, is there truth to what they're saying? And if there is, then I can't point you out and go, well, look what they're saying about me.

It's more just, hey, I'm in a position and we have a platform where that is going to happen, you know, that when you do great, they're going to praise you. When you don't play well enough, there is going to come some criticism and you have to be able to accept that part of the league well. What's the cruelest thing somebody said about you? Well, I mean, the cruelest thing that was, you know, really said or situation that I went through really was, you know, when I was in St. Louis, it wasn't a great, you know, kind of falling out or divorce between me and St. Louis. And there were some comments made that attacked my character, you know, at that time.

And that to me is the cruelest thing because to me, football is football. You know, if you say I played a bad game or if I'm not playing well, I can deal with that. I can understand.

Have your say, do your thing. But, you know, when they start to attack your character, especially when it's unfounded, those are the most difficult things. Because for me, that was kind of what I built my whole career is that, you know, whether you thought I was a good football player or not didn't matter. But I always wanted to make sure that I carried myself in a certain way. So that to me was more the hardest things.

It wasn't, oh, you know, he played awfully through five interceptions or he's terrible, right? That stuff, you know, I can deal with because I'm, I'm confident in who I am. But the character things are tough. Well, having spent years in the league with you, I can tell people on first hand basis, a magnificent character. So anyone who suggested otherwise was wrong. And I know I don't need to tell you that.

But I'm simply sharing that from my perspective and my personal experience sharing years in the league with you. That's just crazy talk. You know what else is crazy, Kurt, that somehow you and I have gotten old enough that you have a son who is playing quarterback in college. Because I don't know how that happened. And I don't know how that math works because shouldn't he still be about five years old?

Yeah, they should all be that. Not only do I have a son that's playing in college, I had a son that actually tried out with the Tampa Bay Bucks this year. So right. I was I was watching the game last year. We call the game last night in New York.

And Isaiah Hodgins, who is the son of one of my teammates from when we won the Super Bowl, was playing in that game. And so, yes, Amy, unfortunately, we have gotten old. And there are reminders around every corner of how old I've gotten. But I think we've gotten wiser. And it's fun now at this stage for me anyways to watch my kids kind of shine and do their thing and help them pursue their dreams as I was able to beat them up so long ago. Those are magnificent, magnificent words. And you, of course, are absolutely right.

And I still refuse to accept that we're old enough that you have children of the age they are. Before we move off of Zach Wilson, I want to ask you how you think he is right now, psychologically even. How do you think if you could put yourself in his shoes, and I know that you communicate with so many people in the league, but I just want to wrap this up by saying, you know, Joe Namath, obviously Rodney Harrison, but just the pressure this kid feels, he knew he was replaced. This is the part that really kind of, maybe it's because I'm a mom and I look at it differently from this perspective, but that he knew he was replaced by Aaron Rodgers. As you said, he needs time to develop, to get attacked by Joe Namath, to get attacked on national television by Rodney Harrison. I mean, what does that do to somebody psychologically as a quarterback out there? I mean, there's no doubt that it's, I mean, it's harder on, you know, anyone and a young kid. Again, you know, I, I have gotten to know Zach a little bit and, you know, all I know about him is that, that he wants to do well, right?

I mean, he's doing everything that he can, and he's trying to learn as fast as he can, and he's trying to get up to speed and get comfortable with what they're asking him to do while playing against the greatest players in the world. And so it's never fun. I mean, you want everybody to support you.

You know, you'd like everybody. And that's the other hard part, right? Is, you know, I always say this when, when I do my analysis on my own, is that I'm not sitting in the room with Zach Wilson and his coaches and knowing exactly what they're telling it. You know, knowing, you know, what is being coached on a certain play. So it's so easy for us to, you know, put on the film and go, look, this guy's wide open. Why is Zach not throwing it to that guy? And then you sit down with him and you go, oh, the coach has told you to go over here first, and then you never had a chance to get over to the open guy.

And that becomes a whole nother part of, you know, when you're making comments is to make sure that you fully understand the basis behind what's going on before you make some of those comments. But what I, what I believe about Zach is I think he's getting more and more comfortable in that position. I think he's getting more and more comfortable with the team.

I think we saw that last Sunday night. But this, this job is about consistency, and it's about stacking good gains on top of each other. And he understands that's him.

That's a part of what he's going to have to do to earn, you know, that position and to earn, you know, that locker room and be able to take it over and become the leader that, that you have to be at that position that he's got to continue to improve and get better. One more quick note about what Micah Parson shared before we move on to another quarterback question for Kurt. I love that in his post, Micah said, why are we focusing on Zach? Why aren't we focusing on the fact that the Chiefs won? And the reason that resonated with me is very, very, very early in my career. I think it was my first season with the team.

Someone on the staff said to me, or said to a group of us, we were together. Why is the focus always on the team that lost? Why don't we focus more on the team that won? And I love that Micah said that, which is instead of focusing on Zach, focus on the Chiefs.

They won. And oh, by the way, you were talking to Chris Jones, so focus on the Chiefs. I think we focus too often on the losing team, not the winning team, but that's just my view. Another question, another quarterback to discuss, Kurt, is Joe Burrow. I don't think they should be playing him.

I think they should be sitting him for a number of reasons, but what matters to me right now is I want to know what you think. Well, I mean, you know, no offense, Amy, but it really doesn't matter what we think. What I know is that if I was Joe and I could get out there and play, I'd be out there playing. I mean, that's just, that's the nature of what we do. And you know, it's one of those things that, you know, we always say to ourselves or we hear people say, well, you know, he should play if he gives the team the best chance to win. But if there's somebody else that maybe gives the team a better chance to win, then he should sit down, or the coaches and sit him down. I can tell you that I never thought there was somebody that gave our team a better chance to win.

It didn't matter if I was beat up, I was on one leg, I was limping out there. That's just how we feel as competitors is that our team is better when we're out there. You know, whatever that means, even if we can't play our best, our team is better when we're out there leading them.

And I believe, you know, he said it a couple weeks ago when he played that Monday night game and he wasn't himself, but he said, yeah, I understood the risks if I went out there and played, but I also understood the risks of being 0-3. And so there's a whole other side to this, especially in our game, because there's only 17 of these things. Every one is huge. It's not like we're playing 162 or we're playing 82 games.

We've got 17 of them. And, you know, so I just think it's one of those things you always have to leave it up to the athletes, especially those superstar athletes that if they believe they can be out there and be effective, you put them out there and you let them, you know, give it a whirl. You are, of course, absolutely right. And you lived it and you know it.

And I lived it from the business perspective as well. Players will always say, I can go, I can go, I can go. And they want to play. And my point about sitting Joe was sometimes the organization has to say, whoa, whoa, whoa. And my concern, Kurt, and maybe you don't think it's, you know, appropriate, maybe you think it's misplaced, maybe you don't agree, maybe you think you should play anyway is preventing further injury. I mean, look, they believe Joe Burrow is the quarterback of the future.

And I think they're right to believe that. And they are now paying him like he's the quarterback of a future. And of course, given my background, I'm always looking at the financial aspect of this as well. But at what point do you believe that even though a competitor is saying, I can go, I can go, I can go, that sometimes a trainer or a doctor or a coach or someone in biz ops needs to say, you know what, we need to take this slowly and protect you for the future? Well, yeah, I mean, I think that's a big picture question in terms of if you have an injury that could affect you in future years, you know, so, for instance, let's use two from a year ago, when two were suffered the concussions.

And, you know, he had a couple of them in a short period of time. I think we all at that point go, okay, we understand that we understand the organization stepping into going, okay, this is bigger than one season. When we're talking about Joe Burrow, and we're talking about a calf, that to me is one of those, like, even if he hurts his calf more this year, I don't believe that's going to have any bearing on the rest of his career and his future. And so, you know, like I said, every season is so important, and every game is so important in our business that I think that's the approach that you have to take is, can this be something that gets worse and not just get worse in the short term, but something that could affect somebody long term, then I fully think you're right.

I think we need people to step in and protect us from ourselves. But, you know, that was one of the first questions that I was asked every time I suffered an injury is, okay, if I play, can I make it worse, right? If I play, can it lead to something that becomes more serious? And anytime I heard, nope, this is one of those that, yeah, I mean, you could pull it worse, but it's not going to be a long-term thing, that's the first that's the first time it's, okay, if I feel like I'm going to play, I'm playing it, you know, but that is a question you must ask, no question whether you're an organization or a player, but in this case with Joe Burrow, I just think it's, he's got a strained or pulled calf, and he could pull it a little bit more or he could re-injure it, but I don't think it's something that will have any long-term effects whatsoever. Yeah, and see, as a sideline reporter, I look at that and I think, okay, with the Aaron Rodgers injury, the calf, the Achilles, it's so connected, I worry about, could that be something that's symptomatic of a greater injury? So I think to myself, well, maybe is it worth the rest?

Is it worth the time to let it heal more effectively? And I agree, like if I have a doctor that says, hey, if you have a weak calf, and so now you're going to compensate for it in some other way, and that could lead to something like an Achilles, that is a whole other conversation for me, because, you know, those types of injuries, when you have an Achilles, I mean, those are hard to come back from, period. And so, you know, those are the things that start to, you know, even as a player, those start to make sense, you know, right? That reality comes in when you hear somebody say, hey, I know this seems small right now, but it is directly related to something else that could be long-term, that's when I think us as, you know, players will kind of step back and go, okay, I need to weigh this a little bit more than just, you know, can I limp onto the field or not? Yep, the player needs to weigh it, and the organization needs to weigh it, and as to your point, Susie, about Aaron, he had a calf injury, and then tore his Achilles, well, Kevin Durant, same thing. So we don't know if it's causation, we don't know if it's correlation, but we do know two athletes with injured calves went on and tore their Achilles, so I agree, you know, with Kurt's analysis, you got to find out if you believe that is correlation, causation, and if you need to be more careful. What's the most hurt you ever played?

I mean, I don't know. I was pretty fortunate, you know, I dislocated and tore the ligaments in my left elbow, you know, one year, so I had to play with like a, you know, a terminator brace on my left elbow, but it was my left elbow, you know, it was painful, and you know, you had to get shot up with those kinds of things. I mean, I played with broken ribs and broken fingers, and I mean, you know, things like that, but you know, to me, those kind of, again, back to your guys' point, you know, those things were kind of like, okay, they're injured, they're not getting more injured, so can you deal with the pain of playing, and so those were most of the injuries that I dealt with. I never really had to make that decision of, okay, this is, you know, not terribly bad, but could lead to something worse.

Now do you want to play? I think the biggest thing would just be like a concussion. You know, my last year playing, I suffered a concussion, came back the next week and got cleared, and I just didn't feel right after the concussion, so I had to make the decision to sit out, to sit out a game personally, and that was probably the hardest one for me because, you know, when we are talking about the head and we're talking about the concussions, and I was older at the time, I'm starting to think about life beyond football, but that was probably the toughest one for me.

Most of my other injuries as I said, you know, broken bone or whatever was just kind of, as long as I can manage the pain, it's not going to be something that's going to, you know, be detrimental moving forward. Before we let you go, really quick question, who's the quarterback that concerns you the most and why? Quarterback concerns me the most in regards to what?

Playing, how they're playing out in the field, where they are. I mean, I would have probably said, you know, Joe Burdle right now just because it's so different than what we've seen. You know, I think, you know, looking at the game last night because it's fresh on my mind, you know, Daniel Jones, you know, here's another kid that I believe got a contract that was bigger than he's played up to this point, and when you do that, obviously, there's a huge blessing in that, but you get scrutinized as that type of quarterback. If you make 140 million dollars, you get looked at like a 140 million dollar quarterback and you get scrutinized every single week, and so, you know, he's getting beat up, he's getting hit a lot, he's not playing necessarily great, but at the same time, I think we're expecting him, very much like Zach Wilson, to play at a level that they've never shown us that they can play at, and it's unfair to me to the player to put that on them just because they were drafted number three overall, or just because they're the starting quarterback for the New York Jets now, or just because they signed a big contract. I think we still have to be realistic with who these players are, what we can expect from them, and we need to look at them through that lens, and so, you know, guys like that, guys like Justin Fields, you know, guys that aren't playing up to, you know, the expectation of being a starter or being a franchise quarterback, I worry about those guys because, just as you said, when you hear people talk about them and say things about them like that, you can't not hear it in this day and age, right? Maybe when I was playing, you had to read it in a newspaper, so if you didn't pick up the newspaper, maybe you didn't hear it, nobody told you. Now you hear it, you know, the stuff with Rodney Harrison, I mean, that's out there every single day, and you guys are talking about it, and every podcast is talking about it, and that affects you because, you know, when you are trying to do your best, and you're just battling, and then you have people out there, you know, saying things like that, it can really mess with your psyche, and I worry about young kids that are thrown in too early with too high of expectations that it's going to swallow them up before they truly have a chance to succeed.

You know, I had a year to sit under, you know, before I had to play, you know, you look at the guys like Jordan Love and Aaron Rogers and even Patrick Mahone sitting for a year and being able to learn under those things, some of these guys don't get that chance, they don't get that opportunity, and I feel bad for those guys. What do you do on a flight to London? Do you watch movies? Do you watch shows? What do you do? Do you eat ice cream? We eat ice cream on the podcast here, so I didn't know if you ate ice cream.

It depends on, it depends. Well, I'm going by myself this time, so it's not, I won't be with Brenda, so otherwise we'd probably try to do something together. Because it's the middle of the football season, I would probably be watching tape if I don't have my tape done. I'll spend a lot of the flight watching tape and getting ready for the game, but other than that, I'm with you guys.

Eat as much food as I can, sleep if I can, and try to figure out my schedule, and then I'll watch as many movies as possible just to kind of get away with what I get there. Awesome. Can't wait to see you over there, it's had a brand. Awesome, great to talk to you guys. Thanks, Kurt. That's Kurt Warner here on What the Football. Susie Schuster and Amy Trask present offbeat conversations and expert sports commentary as they ask, what the football? When my family found out how long it took me to figure out why Charles Woodson named his wine intercept, they said, there's a reason that you had trouble in school. You know, not everyone knows, you know, what they think about a little intercept, they don't know that I played football. Well, what I've learned is a smooth defensive back can make smooth wine.

That's what it's all about. What the Football with Susie Schuster and Amy Trask. The podcast is available Tuesdays, wherever you listen. So I think I'm going to watch three or four movies, we're going to go over next week, by the way. Rich is going over, Rich leaves on Wednesday, today's Tuesday when we tape and he'll be there for two weeks. I'm going to go over there for a couple days. He said, are you going to the game?

I don't know. I think I have to. I got to go. I never knew I've gone a couple of times.

I've never actually gone to the game. Interesting. Yeah.

Interesting. We played a game. It was a preseason game, but we played a game in London.

And which set the table here? Well, it's a little bit of a peeve of mine that we hear players talking about, oh, you know, the trips overseas, whether it's to London, we played a preseason game in London, we played one in Tokyo, we played one in Mexico City, and we hear all the time players talking about how hard the travel is, how hard the travel is. Let me tell you about the travel, Susie. And by the way, I'm not suggesting that it doesn't take a toll on the body to travel multiple time zones.

I'm not suggesting it doesn't, it doesn't take a toll on the body to travel on a plane for that amount of time. But let me tell you about the travel and why I get a little bristly when I hear players talking about how hard the travel is. Okay, here's how the travel goes. When you're getting ready to leave on any trip, overseas or otherwise, you walk out towards the team buses, and you just plop your bag down on the ground, and your equipment guys get it on the bus for you, and then they get it on the plane for you.

The team buses roll up to the door of the facility. You walk out, you get on the bus. If there's any passport to be checked because you're going overseas, the passport checking people come to you. You don't have to stand in line.

You don't have to go through any sort of control. They come on the team bus, and they look at your passport. Now, maybe that's changed since 9-11, but I guarantee you they still make it easy for you. The buses then roll up to the door of the plane. You don't have to walk through the terminal. You don't have to wait in line.

You don't have to go through security or any such thing. You get on the plane. Players get, at a minimum, two seats to themselves.

So if the plane is designed as two seats, five seats, two seats, there's one player in the two seats, and there's generally two players in the five seats. You can walk around. There's snacks everywhere.

People hang out in the galley. They eat snacks the whole way. I ate a lot, a lot, a lot of snacks.

I did a lot of that. You get off the plane. You get on a bus. The bus takes you directly to the hotel. You don't have to wait in line. You don't have to check in. Someone hands you your key as you get off the bus, and they have the lobby cordoned off, so you walk straight on the elevator. Look, I could go on and on and on.

I won't belabor it. My point is it is not difficult to travel. The logistics are very easy, so maybe you're tired because there's a time zone change.

Travel is not difficult in the National Football League. And did you eat ice cream on the plane? Of course, and by the way, did I forgot this week? Well, and by the way, did I ever tell you about the time that a coach confronted me on the flight on the way home? You know how that whole... Who was it, Amy?

You have to say. Honest to gosh, I will tell you right now, it was not a head coach. It was the assistant head coach.

If I think of his name, I promise you, I will tell you who it is. It's just not coming to mind right now. But he marched up, you know, maybe confront is the wrong word, but he just strode over to me on the plane on the way home. And my peeve, one of my peeves, I kind of am on like giving you my peeves today about peeves, about complaining about travel. Well, another peeve is coaches complaining about distractions. It's a distraction. It's a distraction. Well, first of all, you're the coach.

It's your job to minimize distractions. But this guy, and as I said, it wasn't the head coach. It was an assistant head coach. I think I might have been an offensive coordinator.

And that's why I don't remember who it was. Just strides right over to me and says that we have a distraction because we don't have the right kind of candy bars on the plane. And I'm looking at him like, what did you just say is the expression on my face? Because in the galleys on the team planes, we always had baskets of a variety of candy bars.

And we're on our way home from a game that we had lost. And he just strides right over and tells me that the fact that we didn't have a certain kind of candy bar, which I won't name because they're not sponsoring what the football, but he tells me because we don't have this candy bar, it's a distraction. And I looked at him, Susie. I said, if you think that a missing brand of candy bar constitutes a distraction, well, let me tell you something. We got a bigger problem here than missing candy bars. You should have looked at him and said, WTF. I mean, honest to gosh, if you're a coach in the National Football League and you're going to tell me on the plane ride home that a missing brand of candy bar is causing a distraction, we got a bigger problem than that missing candy bar. And that's what I told him.

Did he get fired that season? Again, I got to go back. You know, my brain, it's it works slowly. I will.

I will let you know when I think of it. He did eventually get fired. I just don't remember if it was that season. We will find out.

We will post it online at the Rich Eisen Show YouTube page and let you guys know who it was, who got fired. I'll tell you this right now. He deserved it. Get your own candy. Don't be such a baby.

Get your own candy. Thanks for listening to this edition of What the Football. Subscribe wherever you find your podcasts.

Find us on the Rich Eisen Show YouTube page. However it is, send your questions. We will always read them, always take them. Thanks, Amy. Thanks to everybody here in the studio. Thank you so much for taking in this edition of What the Football. Dolphins. Bills. Ravens. Ravens. Final four. Over Reaction Monday. The podcast. Wherever you listen.