REShow: Shannon Terry - Hour 2 (5-2-2023)

This is The Rich Eisen Show. So far, so good. With guest host, Dan Helle.

I like it. Live from The Rich Eisen Show studio in Los Angeles. Get a jersey yet? I don't wear jerseys.

They're not putting on a jet jersey. Today's guests, founder and CEO of On 3 Sports, Shannon Terry, host of the Business of Sports Podcast, Andrew Brandt, Washington Post, NBA writer, Ben Golliver. And now, sitting in for Rich, it's Dan Helle.

What is up, everybody? Hour two, Dan Helle here filling in for Rich Eisen with Eisen's gang, Chris Brockman, Michael Del Tufo, TJ Burch, all in the house talking a little bit of hoops tonight as we have the Lakers and the Warriors set to go at it. It is Steph, it is LeBron at it again. Arguably the two biggest brands in the game right now with apologies to one, Kevin Durant.

And game one going to be in the Bay Area tonight. Golden State favored by four and a half. Steph, of course, coming off that epic game seven performance against Sacramento. LeBron has had so many epic performances throughout his career. You guys tell me if you think I'm wrong here, I know LeBron has to do what LeBron does, but if the Lakers are going to have a chance in this series in which they are an underdog, not as big of an underdog as you might have thought, but if they're going to have a chance, Anthony Davis is going to have to do some things.

I mean, not just do some things. He's going to have to strap the team on his back and help LeBron and not be just Robin. I think he's going to have to be Batman to a certain extent if the Lakers are going to get by Golden State here, because he's the one thing that they can't contain in the paint. When he was with the Pelicans, we saw him do damage to Golden State at times.

When he's on and he's healthy, which he is right now to the best of my knowledge, he is as unstoppable a force as as I think there is among people that play that position. So if you don't have AD prime AD, give me Golden State the whole way. What say you TJ?

I agree with everything you said there. Anthony Davis really is. He's the key because you know what you're going to get out of LeBron, right? AD has been he's looked like that guy that everybody thought he was going to be when he came out of Kentucky and then he's looked like, you know, I hate when fans call these guys soft, Chris, you know that. But a lot of times that's the knock that he gets.

He's in street clothes. They want to call him soft and he gets injured. But tell you what, when that man is on his game, I don't know what you do to stop him. And Looney is going to be in for a long series. Looney and Draymond Green, they're going to have to ball out, especially if AD is healthy. You know what I mean, Chris?

Yeah. For the Lakers to win two guys, it's not just going to have to be LeBron and AD. We're going to need 20 point nights from Austin Reeves and we're going to need a really, really 20 and 10 games. We're going to need Jared Vanderbilt to absolutely shut down Klay Thompson. We're going to need D'Angelo Russell the other night, the overtime win.

D. Russ was hitting those threes that got him back in it. We're going to need one of the two of those games. We're going to need a weird Malik Beasley game.

We're going to need Schroeder to play smart. It's going to take a total team effort because they're just not as good as Golden State is. And so it's going to take kind of a Herculean effort yet we know LeBron's going to do it.

He's averaging, like we said, 38 and six this year. We're going to need that every night. We're going to need 35 a night from LeBron. We're going to need 30 a night from AD.

And then we're going to need the other guys to chip in. They're going to have to get 50 points and suddenly that's 125 and that's what it's going to take to beat this Warrior team. Well, we're not going to get 35 a night out of LeBron.

It's just... Why? I don't think that that's... Why not? I don't think that's going to happen. I don't think it's... 35 a night for him at 38. And they're not going to win the series.

We'll see. I don't think he needs to score 35 a night, but I do believe the bench players, like you mentioned, they got to show him. AD and LeBron got to go for 60 to 65 points. I think with LeBron, you don't...

I don't know that you necessarily need 30 a night, but I think you need a triple double type line every night. Like that's what LeBron gives you, right? Like I think you need 12, 13 rebounds. You need 9, 10 assists and you need 20 plus points obviously. But I'm just looking at against Memphis, which was a very different series.

He goes for 21, 28, 25, 22, 15 and 22. But this is such a different team than Memphis. And has... By the way, has a team ever gone from as likable to as hated in a two month span as the Memphis Grizzlies?

Like how fun... By the way, they were... I don't think they were ever likable, Dan. I feel they took that villain hat last year. And I think that... From what I've read and seen, I think that that's what they wanted. Let me rephrase that.

Has a team ever gone from as fun to watch underdog, to as hated as the Memphis Grizzlies in one fell swoop? Yeah. I mean, thank you, Dylan Brooks. Yeah. And then you saw the... You saw Shum's tweet a few minutes ago, right?

Yeah. Hoskins just putting it up if you want to let the people know what that says. The Grizzlies have informed pending unrestricted free agent Dylan Brooks that he will not be brought back under any circumstances, sources tell Shum's Charnia. Brooks was told about the Grizzlies decision to move on in exit meetings with team officials in recent days, sources said.

Any circumstances? I think everybody in Memphis is probably glad for that. A couple of my best friends from college, huge Memphis Grizzlies fans and went to Tennessee. They grew up in Memphis, moved back to Memphis after school and go to every game. And that... The city has embraced that team and grind city mentality, underdog mentality.

And then the stuff happens with John and Dylan. They have so many nice pieces on that team. I don't know that Dylan Brooks is going to be missed at this point. I know he was the longest tenured player on the team, the heart and soul.

And Brockman and I were talking about this during the break. And why don't you tell them, Chris, you and I shared the same thought on what the future might lie for Dylan Brooks. He's going to be on the Lakers next year. I mean, come on, this is the type of player LeBron actually likes.

He likes guys who are willing to get under people's skins. Remember, Lance Stevenson had that famous GIF of him... Blowing in LeBron's ear. He signed off on playing with Lance Stevenson. He joined the Lakers.

So this is the type of guy that, as long as you can make shots, LeBron likes playing with these types of guys, wouldn't shock me in the least to see him on the Lakers. So you're a GIF guy, not a Jiff guy. Jiff guy, not GIF. I say Jiff. I think it's Jiff like the Peanut Butter. I think it's both.

I've been around... I say GIF. You say GIF? I just said it's G. It's G. It is a G, but it's Jiff and GIF. I've heard both.

Jiff, Peanut Butter. I've heard both. Yeah. I've heard both a lot. Did you park in a garage when you got here today?

Is that where you park? Touché. Touché.

Gosh. Well, I'm certainly looking forward to that game. I want a good series with Golden State and the Lakers. And being here in Los Angeles, you guys lived it this season. The Lakers were terrible. The fact that they're even in this position, they've made some... That's remarkable.

Yeah. They've made some nice moves. They retooled that entire roster.

They didn't think that anything was going to come of it, Chris. And then they were the top-ranked defensive team. Once they made that trade, things just flipped. It was amazing how they were able to get in there and kind of just rework that whole system. And they withstood LeBron missing a significant amount of time again. Touché.

And I was just looking it up. I wanted to see what he did against Golden State this year. They played opening night, and he had 31-15-8.

And then he played sparing minutes in one other game, and he was inactive for the other two. So they haven't seen LeBron since the beginning of the season. So it's going to be interesting to see how they defend him. I think you're right, T.J. Looney is in for a long series. Can he get 20... But he's been balling. He's been balling.

Well, let me say this about Looney. Been playing good D. He had three 20 or more rebound games... Yeah, that's crazy. ...against Sacramento. Looney, you could make the argument that Kavon Looney was the second best player in that series for Golden State. He was unbelievable.

His rebounding numbers were off the chart. Yeah. So... They're going to need it. They're going to need it. It's going to take a full team effort from both sides.

Whoever wins this series will have 100% earned it. And it might just become because they move on because the other team got worn down. You know, to the Lakers, they looked really tired at the end of that Grizzlies series, which makes the 40-point win to close it out even that much more impressive in my mind. Well, I had written down here, you know, is it more important for Jordan Poole or for Klay Thompson to play well for the Warriors? And I think you need them both to play well for the Warriors.

You need them both, but you need Poole to be the guy that earned that $120 million contract last year. You know, we need to see that guy if you're Golden State because he's been such a disappointment so far. They were able to get by without him really playing at a high level.

So you need him to be 20 a night. They're going to need that from him. Also, I think Klay, you know, Klay, I think the most points he had against the Kings were 26. I think you're going to have to have some, some of those Klay Thompson, like legendary games where my man's hitting for like 35, hitting 10 threes. You know, I think the clutch guy clutch Klay. Yeah. And I think we didn't really see that last series. That's going to be necessary to get them to the next level. Guys, the more I think about this and actually process this as we're talking about Klay Thompson, the more I believe this is going to be a five, maybe six game series.

Okay. Because you talk about third options, whether it's Klay or Jordan Poole or Draymond, right? For the Warriors.

And then you go to Lakers and you talk about third options. It's Austin Reeves. It's Austin Reeves or D'Angelo Russell or Rui, right?

Like, I mean, is there a drop off in third options there? Now, by the way, Austin Reeves has had his moments. He has. T Russ has obviously had his moments and Rui coming from a Wizards fan who saw him grow up there and he was just kind of eh, has certainly had some moments with the Lakers, but give me Klay or give me Draymond, even give me Jordan Poole, I think on a given night over most of these guys. But it's still, it, it amazes me how guys come out of college, like an Austin Reeves and most people had never really heard of Austin Reeves. And then you see him, Oh, who's the white guy in the Lakers? He's pretty good. Yeah. And then like, Hey, is that a Caruso or he's just going, Oh no, he's good. No, he has hair. Wait a second.

That's not, yeah, exactly. He's can play, but he's going to have to really take it up to another notch. I mean, he kind of, I think Austin Reeves made himself a lot of money this year. He's going to, he's going to get a big contract from someone whether it's to stay here or not. Does Austin Reeves get a Jordan Poole type contract?

Because it's a similar scenario. I think he can get a Duncan Robinson type contract that now looks kind of foolish for Miami to have done that. You just have, you have to go, you have to go with the other white guy that got a nice deal that could shoot. Yeah, that's kind of, kind of Duncan Duncan did get paid. But my point is Austin Reeves, when you look at what, like you look to the last game, Lebron's giving the ball up to Austin Reeves and letting him create, you know, he's averaging 60 in the game in the post season. He's, he's done some nice things.

I don't know. I, I, I might be surprised if he doesn't get a hundred million dollar deal. So you're saying warriors and like five. I just think, I think warriors and six, I think the Lakers will get two.

I don't see, I don't see it going seven. I was looking at some odds the other day and the, the Lakers odds are better, actually better the longer it goes, which surprised me a little bit. Warriors and six, I think was like six to one, which was very appealing to me. Lakers and seven was, was, I felt like less than five to one. I was, I think it was plus four fifty.

So some interesting odds there in that game. I don't know why. Maybe it's because we're here. Maybe because it's Lebron versus Steph, but far more intrigue and interest. Do you care about talking to the legacy question with these two guys, even though they're going head to head, does that interest you at all? Oh, if, if Steph wins and he's, no, I mean, it's super sports talky. Yeah, I know.

And it's been, it's been all, it's been all, you know, all day and all morning and yesterday, I think with the, on a lot of different shows, like I think we got two all time greats. They're two very different players. You know, in terms of, in terms of legacy, does one more title change Lebron's legacy?

I don't think so. Does one more title change Steph's legacy? In my opinion, probably more than it does for Lebron simply because he's winning another one without KD.

Yeah. So I, you know, Lebron, Lebron's done this before and to me, both of their legacies are almost as impactful off the basketball court as they are on the basketball court. You know, in terms of Lebron, like what he's done with, you know, clutch sports and outside businesses, and he's a billionaire and the school back in Ohio.

I mean, it's, it's amazing what he's done as a business person. And then with Steph, obviously, you know, the Under Armour stuff, and he's done a lot of similar things, but he's changed the game in a way that, that we've never seen before. Just because he's, I don't want to say a regular dude, but he's just built more like the rest of us than Lebron and Lebron's is super free.

You can't get Lebron six, nine to 60, like the normal person can't relate to that. Right. But these kids, they see Steph and especially on the basketball court, he looks small, even though he's six, four. Right. So he looks like us. And I've said this before. I think Steph kind of ruined basketball because now then you've got these kids, Kirk Morrison, for example, came in the other day hosting and he said, you know, he's coaching his daughter's team and his son's team.

I'm like, what's easier. He goes, Oh, the girls, by far, he goes, the girls, listen, he goes, the boys think that they can come in and shoot half court shots. Cause Steph Curry does it. And I think that the game has changed that the people step in the gym and they think I can launch 25, 30 footers and you can't because there ain't that many Steph Curry's.

God didn't bless that many people with that type of skill, but yet everyone thinks that they can do that. And it's, it definitely changed. He changed basketball more than LeBron changed basketball. And I think that's pretty, a pretty safe assumption. I think too about what LeBron is, if he wins another one with the Lakers, he gets a statue. So that's kind of a, he'll have a statue in three spots. Cleveland for sure has to build him one.

Yeah. And then I'm sure Miami cause, and then, you know, he gets a Lakers statue. I think if he wins a second one.

Well, I would think he would have to, right. Shaq, Shaq has his Lakers statue. And he ties Kobe with, with five rings. So it's. It's certainly impactful. I guess for me, they're just, there hasn't really been a question of where they stand in the history of basketball. They're two all time greats. Now is their legacy greater?

Sure. Does LeBron catch Jordan? I don't think he ever will. I don't think there's, there are certain people that are always going to look at Michael Jordan as the greatest of all time. I think our generation always feels that way. I think people, you know, 10, 15 years younger than us would put LeBron first. And I've always said this, especially when, you know, in the last five years, when this argument really took off, my point is if you're under the assumption, if you're in the feeling that Michael Jeffrey, Jordan's the greatest player ever, there is nothing that's going to change your mind.

Right. But if you felt like LeBron's the greatest, then the further he goes on, the more argument that you're going to be able to make. And you know, the two sides will never meet.

You know what I mean? No one will ever come to a, an absolute conclusion who was the greatest. I'm just happy that I was alive to get to watch this because I love basketball and I love watching basketball at its highest level. So I, you know, I got to see Jordan, I got to see Shaq and Kobe and LeBron and Steph and it's just amazing. Well, we've been blessed, right? We've been blessed to grow up in this era of all time.

Great. I mean, you could throw tiger woods in there too, right? I've never seen basketball. I know, but I mean, we never see that. And obviously Tom Brady, but you remember, you know, years ago you had the Joe Montana, Tom Brady debate and then Brady just won so much.

I mean, there was no more debate. It was a, well Dan, I was talking to Rich about that and he says that seven is now the benchmark. And I really don't believe that because seven is such an anomaly. Like no one's going to win seven Super Bowls again.

I'm just, it's not going to happen. Just like no one's ever, no one ever counts Bill Russell's 11 rings is the benchmark. It's usually like six, five or six to say seven.

That's like, I can't see that ever happening. So I kind of look at the four, you get into the four Super Bowl range where my homes is kind of staring at now. I kind of feel that that puts you in kind of like that goaded category in that conversation, man, Chris insane seven Super Bowls.

Well, I mean, you go, you go three, you go four, right? It used to be Terry Bradshaw forever. We could, we could go on this conversation for hours and hours, but we have to pay some bills guys. We have to take a break here. Dan Helle filling in for rich eyes and on the rich eyes and show we are back in a moment.

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Call click Granger dot com or just stop by. All right. We touched on this a little bit in hour one and it has been a fascinating subject for me to delve into over the last two years or so that is name image likeness NIL in college sports. Everybody's heard about this now how college football players and basketball players and gymnasts anybody in college athletics is able to get paid for their name image likeness and it has really changed the game.

I think for the better. Certainly there are issues that need to be ironed out to a certain extent and there's a lot of great recruiting websites out there and one that I tend to go to more often than not because they give you NIL valuations for players what they estimate based on their own metrics certain players are worth in terms of their name image likeness. Give you an example. Bronny James LeBron son plays at Sierra Canyon High School here in Los Angeles one of the best high school basketball players in the country. Not the best not even a five star is a four star who's a McDonald's All-American very good player. His NIL valuation according to on three dot com five point nine million dollars which is down a million and a half it was hovering around seven million dollars for quite some time so anyway I go look at this list periodically and check out who's worth what and again it's not exactly what they're making or they will make but it's it's the valuation based on on threes metrics and with that I'd like to bring in the founder of on three Shannon Terry Shannon lives in Nashville a place that I frequent often home to many friends and he has already built a couple of successful recruiting websites rivals in 247 sold them to Yahoo and CBS made a ton of money work for CBS for a long time did that long earn out couple years at Yahoo prior to that now he started his third recruiting website all three Shannon what's up man welcome to the show.

Hey glad to be here. I want to delve into this NIL situation a little bit more and you seem to be ahead of the curve when did you decide to add this NIL top one hundred and these valuations on on three was that from the jump or is that something that took you a little while to come up with. No you know it's the reason that on three you know came about we saw we saw conflation of so many different bits occurring in college sports and we knew it was it you know it was a good time and it was going to be an era of of NIL and so we started building the algorithm about two years ago we've made small adjustments along the way and we feel really good you know the world of NIL is constantly moving and evolving and so you know our algorithm has to move and evolve as well but it's it's very interesting you know our algorithm our NIL evaluation is a is a projected annual value it takes a look at the marketplace and what we think that athlete is worth you know for the next 12 months and so we've had a lot of success with it. Well and I would imagine that a lot of these athletes are using this to their advantage have you heard much about that in terms of negotiating in terms of bringing on sponsors and because let's be honest what what happens now in recruiting is every school has a collective or collectives and I have found that if you have more than one collective it doesn't really help you I think because you're recruiting against each other so Tennessee where I went has one big collective called Spire it's very good and they've brought in some great players and they are essentially negotiating with players and they end up going to Knoxville or whatever school every school has their own collective but do they use your valuations in those negotiations? Absolutely you know we would from the feedback that we get we speak to all the collectives we talk to the athletes you know our our goals we're trying to create an efficient marketplace you know like it's it's it's better for everyone involved if an athlete knows what their true value is and for the most part across the board we've found that athletes you know are using their roster value as a benchmark for collectives you know and then their overall NIL valuation you know as they get more into brand deals larger brand deals now there aren't many athletes that are you know really doing these larger brand deals but there there'll be more in the future. Where are we now and where will we be let's say five years from now I'm looking at your list and your top five players in terms of NIL valuation and this is what you deem them to be worth annually as you said, Bronny James 5.9 million, Livvy Dunn who is the gymnast from LSU is number two on this list at 3.4 million, Caleb Williams is three the quarterback from SC, Arch Manning who has yet to play a game his valuation despite a relatively small social media following is just over 2 million and then Travis Hunter the corner wide receiver who went with Dion to Colorado from Jackson State is at 1.7 million. So you're looking at guys and we saw this with Oscar Shibway staying in school on the basketball side right because he was making almost 2 million dollars a year from NIL money when he wasn't guaranteed to be a first-round draft pick where are we going to be five years from now are we going to see guys with with 10 million dollar valuations? Well I don't think that let me I think I can explain this pretty easily so if you look at where NIL is right now the entire valuation and you take a look at specifically college football and college basketball the majority of the dollars the value in those two sports is around what we call roster value okay and the way roster value works is roster value is for the most part collective driven and so it's not a very hard formula to figure out what these athletes are worth for this point we extrapolate back from the overall collective marketplace and so if you take all the collectives all the money raised all the money that's going to be deployed in college football over the course of this upcoming season and then you build some just basic general general management tools you know where quarterbacks valued x more than a defensive end more than a wide receiver and so forth and so on it's pretty easy to extrapolate back what the position values are worth if an athlete is at a certain school for example if Tennessee for example our XYZ school has a 10 million dollar collective and they're deploying 8 million dollars over the course of the upcoming year you know you've got really strong guidance on what the value of an athlete is worth from the collective for roster value at that school now to this point for those sports of college football and college basketball the majority of overall NIL dollars has been around roster value through the collective as NIL increases over the years you're going to see a lot more big brand deals come in you know and right now there's just not that many brand brand deals because there aren't that many known athletes so you know kind of in closing here as you look at our top 10 list evaluations it's Bronnie James, Livvy Dunn, Caleb Williams, Arch Manning, Travis Hunter, Drake Mait you have a combination there some high profile performance-based athletes but also you know some legacy names like like James and Manning and then some really big-time influencers you know like a Livvy Dunn and then you know in the case of you know Angel Reese you know a combo and so those two values put together roster value and brand value make up a valuation and it will you know and it's not that difficult to track if you've got the boots in the street you do the work. So I think a lot of people have questioned I'm just trying to keep this kind of generic for our listeners out there who are familiar with NIL but maybe aren't sure exactly what it entails you hear about some of these deals say for instance Miami where they were recruiting a player and literally couldn't deliver on what was supposed to be a 10 11 million dollar NIL deal then you hear about the 8 million dollar deal that my alma mater the Collective Spire put together for Nico Iomelyava which I still struggle to say that's really good by the way I try he's from California he's going to my school so I wish I knew how to say Nico's last name a little bit better but but that's a real deal right so this is this is 8 million dollars that was actually started getting paid while he was still in high school California is one of the states where you can you can start paying kids when they're in school right yeah exactly you know and that's you know that's a that's a long-term deal three or four year deal now what we're hearing now in the street is the days of the million dollar quarterback are over even even I mean even at the college level they will be rare and so you know I don't think you're going to see many of those going forward but why is that Shannon for it well I think what what you're finding is that the Collective's which you know responsible for this roster value they're run by entrepreneurs and business owners and and highly successful people you know that necessarily don't come from the academia background and so you know they they want a good return of investment and so there's only so much money I keep hearing this this you know unlimited salary cap you know it's not true you know there's only so much money to go around and what we're seeing is that the roster management of the schools working through the Collective's is getting more efficient it's and so that money's actually going less to recruits that numbers I think going to be around 10% this upcoming year it was 14% last year and you're gonna see more money going for kids to come back and you're going to see continue to see a lot more money go to the transfer portal that's what that's what we're seeing now so basically what you're saying is I'm equating this to let's just say an NFL let's say an NBA owner yeah who is paying a luxury tax he's going over he's paying paying for three years or going after a title what you have in these Collective's is you have a bunch of rich guys alums who are chipping in money to a nod to to what is not a non-profit so there's no tax deduction generally right and so it's a it's a passion play generally some of them are a little different yeah but it's a passion play for these guys whether they're throwing in ten thousand dollars or a hundred thousand dollars or a million dollars after three years if you're not winning they're not seeing a return on the investment because they're only return is winning right so there there isn't the situation where this is going to last forever in terms of the same guy just delivering a million bucks a year to the collective unless you're winning well I don't know you know winning is the key here you know I think I think donations to the athletic department you know are probably you know that's the piece that's going to be interesting to study is you know the impact of Collective's because the same donor pool let's face it and so you know there's probably some cannibalization of funding that's going on and the schools that don't win are going to struggle to fund their Collective's you know going forward if they don't have plans in place to cover during those windows but let let's let's be clear I don't know that this is the route that we're going to see in five years you know at some point in time you've seen the study power five if you take scholarships and aid the the the talent fee for a power five football is nine percent of total expenses so your labors nine percent coaches administrations and severance is over forty five percent so with all that said we're going to get to a point where the athletes especially for college football likely college basketball are some way going to be participating in the rights package you know through a revenue share or some form of compensation so where does the Collective fit when that window happens and that's that's the that's the multi-billion dollar question right now it is something though that athletes are going to continue to get paid period the athletes that are that are generating the revenue so so when do you think you think it's five years when the college basketball and football player is getting a cut of the rights deals well you know NCAA is going all in right now with the you know the trying to get the federal bill so you know they've you know so I think this is going to move along really fast and I'm thinking in two years it's not going to look anything like it looks like now there's just you know the the NCAA which is made up of obviously its presidents with a 1950s mentality has they have not taken any steam off the kettle and you know and they're at a point now you know through more and more antitrust litigation and where they're at it's it's kind of this federal law this this petition for a federal deal is the last Hail Mary and so if that doesn't happen in their favor which it's unlikely to do you know I think you're going to start seeing a lot of moves and I don't know what those moves are when they're they're going to happen but it will not result in any form of the athlete at these revenue producing sports not being compensated at the school level it's going to happen it's just a matter of how and when it's been fascinating Shannon to see which of these schools collectives got on board the quickest and which ones kind of fell behind and are playing catch-up who are the best three or four collectives nationally that have kind of been ahead of the game you know the Spire has been phenomenal you know they're they're they're well run you know they've they've got good contracts they're you know all the things they're fundraising they've been ahead of the game I mean they've truly the thing that they've also done is that they've tired they've tied the deals in with actionable marketing plans for the athlete you know which is so important that if you go do a deal and you sign an athlete to a deal that it is a true deal there's real deliverables and it's not you know some scammy thing that's going on and Spire's done a phenomenal job of doing that the 12th man at at Texas A&M is a really unique study you know because they use an existing organization from the 80s to come in and be their collective and and and even though it's governed and run outside of the school and the athletic department you know they're still ticketing bonuses and points to the donor and so they played a significant role in Texas A&M's recruiting success last year now you know a lot of those kids have transferred and I think there's some you know reshaping of how they deploy you know their collective funds and that that structure while it you know has been called into question by the NCAA I know for a fact that upwards of 10 other schools you know are researching and looking into that model you know as a possible go-forward and solution so the NCAA has its hands tied right now they're paralyzed and during that window of time the collectives and the schools are moving forward everyone's trying to make the collectives out as as bad guys I don't know that that's the case at all and it's it's college sports over the next 24 months is going to be one of the most interesting things I've ever any of us have ever lived through or seen in in in sports in general so it's fascinating it is fascinating and you have the 12-team playoff right on the horizon and you are right in the middle of it all check out on three it's it's a great website college recruiting website talks about these NIL evaluation Shannon Terry you've done great things with the websites let's let's stay with on three for a while man don't sell this off and start another one already I like I love reading the top 100 I was 10 years I was 10 years with rivals in Tampa 24-7 I'm old but I'm gonna be here well this one has a chance I appreciate you guys having me on I'll be on anytime talk about this stuff I love your chef thanks Shannon appreciate it man on three.com has these NIL rankings Bronny currently sitting atop number one with an annual valuation of close to six million dollars for a while that was in the seven million dollar range gonna be interesting to see where he ends up Dan Helle filling in for Rich Eisen on the Rich Eisen show we're back after this. Dan Helle in for Rich on the Rich Eisen show hearing Shaq talk about trophies made me think about trophies and I have this box that's been sitting in my garage forever and my parents when they moved sent me a box of all my old trophies and jerseys you know all that stuff do you guys have any trophies from your childhood that you've saved in my current house yes now do you have any in a box somewhere that you've said oh my mom's house still your mom's house yep I got a little legal that's like this pick that my mother sent me and she's like do you want this thing I'm like mom I didn't even play like really it says I forget the Senators was the name of the team or something I'm like mom do you remember I kind of just kept the score that's why I realized I couldn't play sports but she was like so happy she found this and I'm like no I don't need it so you don't have it no that's yeah nothing TJ the only thing I had from my from being a kid all that stuff got tossed just baseball cards and comic books that's the only thing that like somehow managed to not get tossed out of my mom's attic and I know they're still up there but oh nothing else yeah I got a couple I just can't I can't part ways with so they're just in the garage on a shelf I'm certainly not going to put them out but what are they the only ones that they're I held on to it's kind of funny one of them is a fight of the night trophy from the SAE boxing tournament at the University of Tennessee my freshman year I lost I lost to Jamie Morgan but it was the fight of the night which is pretty cool I never boxed before I'd never done any of that I still have that yeah all right well stop stop was this head get like tell me a little bit about this it was it was amateur boxing I don't think they still have it because the insurance rates got to be too high but the SAE fraternity put on a boxing tournament every year at the Gold Gloves gym in Knoxville okay and it was an unbelievable event you know the entire Greek system came out there was I don't know it seemed like there were probably a thousand people there I mean there was definitely hundreds of people that are watching the tournament I remember a buddy of mine who was in another fraternity who was the I was a freshman you you know you rush fraternities and try to get a bit whatever said hey dude I don't know if you want to do this like people will remember this if you lose especially if you get knocked out for the next four years so you're putting yourself it's an unnecessary risk here like you're gonna be fine but that's what people are gonna remember yeah so there was a dude at either middleweight or light heavyweight that I was trying to avoid who'd won three years in a row I weigh up I weighed around 200 pounds now so I moved up to heavyweight I was roughly the same in college okay and I fought a taller lankier dude and somehow just survived and got you know whatever we had a good fight but that's the trophy I've saved the second one is a bath I never got many individual awards but I got some like Christmas tournament all tourney team in basketball save that one and here's the third pinewood derby oh I remember that remember I created a badass pinewood derby card the black went over hollowed out in the middle so those three anyway I'm not gonna put them up but I've held on to them so I've always wondered if anybody held on to trophies from their childhood and the baseball card thing TJ you know what baseball cards are worth from like I don't know 1983 to 1993 the tops nothing less than what you have in your ashtray in your car right that was I have a huge box earned them unbelievable why in our childhood did they make so many damn baseball and football and basketball cards and they're worth nothing it's it's sad man I can remember being a kid in Jose Conseco's tops rookie card I went into a Rite Aid in Altoona once and I just picked three random packs and I got three Conseco rookies in the same day and I was like oh I'm gonna buy a house with this one day yeah I couldn't buy you guys lunch with those cards right now it's crazy just they they flood set the market was oversaturated I guess Chris isn't that what we heard when because Chris and I really when the boom when the sport car boom happened a few years ago we jumped all in and we spent we spent a lot of money Dan I feel like I remember this now because the last time I was in you guys were still dabbling in that a little bit we're dabbling we're trying to flip and all that stuff but it's it's come back down a little bit but the thing now that makes sports cards so valuable it's it's the scarcity it's the numbered cards everything's about the autos is it on card you got patches is it gold is it how hollow it's it's really gone next level now but I thought the unopened packs were what was unopened boxes the full set because it's all about the mystery of what could be in there right yeah so it's like you know sports cars is kind of turned into the ultimate slot machine you're just kind of all right here we go I'm buying this box for 300 bucks and so is that what you guys do now you buy the boxes are you buying individual cards you know already has a value that's the thing is if you really want something just buy the individual card you can go on eBay and just kind of find it but if you're in kind of the chase or maybe you're trying to hold for value you're like oh there's there's a lot of good rookies in 2020 let me just buy a couple boxes of that hold on to it and hope you get in the time and then sell it for 3x down the line yeah and that's kind of what I he and I both done kind of bought some like I have Otani's rookie year in Bowman I don't know if he's in this box but I have it it's still sealed and I figure one day someone might want to take a chance in thinking that Otani's rookie card is in there so yeah you know that's where you're at that's where we're at right now but I can speak for Chris we we definitely spent way too much money on cards but it was very fun we had a great time doing it because during the pandemic that was all there was to do you couldn't do anything so all these you know cards they have breaks you know my buddy Shane started crackpot breaks and that's who I go to a lot and you just you know you sit there and I would spend Friday nights Dan in front of my laptop watching my boy break cards and you're just hoping to get something good did he have like a like a twitch stream or you guys just face each other Instagram Instagram it's huge Instagram lives for yeah got huge it was massive all these local card shops would just do nightly stuff where people oh yeah I want a box of that give me a box of that give me a box of that it was like catty shack give me three of those four of those and then bam and then you'd watch your stuff get open live on the Instagram oh they'd open your box so you would buy it through them yeah and then they would open it for you and then ship you the cards or you go and pick them up or whatever and they get their greasy mitts all of your cards oh no bro these are professionals man a lot of guys are wearing gloves a lot of guys wear gloves they're very like they get a good card they will case it like immediately like it's all late yeah it was still going on people are still doing it every night I just spent the other day watching crackpot do one for like two hours they're open up a new case of Bowman it's great it's just fun this is like watching like people play video games to me though but I guess it's yours and there's a value attached to it exactly I think from watching you play cards but I can get something if I bought this pack it's also like the slot machine element yeah you could hit you could hit sevens and bam you got a thousand dollar card weren't you weren't you doing the the digital cards for a while what oh yeah and me top shot and top shot yeah I tried that I couldn't really that's still a thing I think it's still a thing I still have a bunch I don't know how to sell them I'm kind of stuck with them I think I go to I go down these uh you know cuz I follow my kids and I try to like pay attention to some of this Instagram and tick-tock stuff now the big thing is everybody's everybody's buying it in distributing ATM machines that are Bitcoin right so they place the Bitcoin machines over so I've seen them around you know my hood a little bit and I don't know I've never I've never I mean I I've owned Bitcoin but I've never purchased Bitcoin from an ATM from an ATM machine that that's that's an somewhat next level for me I don't know if I have that to buy Bitcoin from an ATM machine I'm sure some people getting rich off Bitcoin ATMs oh there's no doubt wouldn't doubt it people getting rich everywhere off something yeah I got a flashlight for you you want to buy yeah what were you trying to what were you trying to sell what subscription service were you trying to sell I don't even start with that because by the way who we had we Shannon Terry who we had on from on three I didn't want to say it to embarrass him on the line but like this guy's made tens of millions of dollars from starting these recruiting websites he's unbelievably successful you love Lala Kent on Vanderpump Rules now get to know her on Give Them Lala with her assistant Jess what you did not see is when Raquel arrives and she wants to talk to me I made her sit in a corner explain sat in a corner booth all by herself in the dark waiting for to talk to you waiting for me to finish dancing to 50 Cent it's my birthday sit in the corner give them Lala wherever you listen