REShow: Howard Balzer - Hour 2 (7-7-2022)

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You absolutely don't want to hear a complaint. The Rich Eisen Show with guest host, Dan Schwartzman. And now, sitting in for Rich.

Hit the drop. It's Dan Schwartzman. It is our number two. That's right, Dan Schwartzman in the captain's chair for Rich Eisen.

I'll be here tomorrow as well. A lot of football talk after Baker Mayfield got himself dealt from the Cleveland Browns to the Carolina Panthers. And I have to congratulate him. Get out of Cleveland, that's a good thing. That place is a quarterback graveyard, has been for a very long time. And when you think about it, who's the last really good quarterback to play there? I mean, are we going as far back as Bernie Kosar?

I mean, is that the guy? Really nobody since they've come back into existence in 1999, right? The best quarterback they've had, frankly, it might be Baker Mayfield. But I think Derek Anderson made the Pro Bowl once. But besides that, I don't think they've had a quarterback that you can look at and say, yeah, he's pretty good. Brady Quinn was terrible. Tim Couch was terrible. I mean, most anybody they bring in there is terrible. Doesn't matter where they draft the guy. Deshaun Kiser was a second round pick.

He was awful. So maybe Baker Mayfield is the best quarterback they have had there since Bernie Kosar. And that's why you go out and regardless of a guy facing, you know, civil charges the way that Deshaun Watson is. And potentially facing a year long suspension, you don't care and you give him a fully guaranteed five year, two hundred and thirty million dollar contract because you are so desperate to end that streak of utility at the most important position on a ball field. But now that Baker Mayfield has been dealt, the question is, who exactly wants Jimmy Garoppolo? Isn't he the next guy?

It's like in the NBA, right? We're all waiting around to hear what happens to Kevin Durant. Where does Kevin Durant go? If Kevin Durant gets traded, then I guess Donovan Mitchell's the next guy that potentially is going to be on the move. Right? If you're Miami, you want to put all your eggs in one basket and that basket, of course, is Durant. But if Kevin Durant's not either available or traded elsewhere, you're going to pivot and make a run at Donovan Mitchell.

Right? The anticipation here is that Utah is going to blow things up even more. They traded Rudy Gobert. They have a new head coach.

He's a 34 year old guy. Quinn Snyder bounced. So you naturally think that Donovan Mitchell may be the next guy. Either they're going to try to now build around Mitchell or it's time to look and say, OK, let's get rid of him too and completely rebuild. We'll get a bunch of first round picks for him, maybe a young talent. And we're rebuilding, not retooling, rebuilding. But Mitchell's got to wait to find out what happens with Kevin Durant before he finds out what happens to himself.

And I think it was similar, right? Jimmy Garoppolo is not going to be the first quarterback on the move because it was going to be easier to pry Baker Mayfield out of Cleveland than Garoppolo out of San Francisco. And I think people look at it and say Baker's probably a better quarterback.

And that's debatable. So how many teams out there need a quarterback where Jimmy Garoppolo becomes a hot commodity? Well, Seattle obviously needs a quarterback, right? Are you going to the season with Geno Smith as your quarterback?

Yeah, good luck with that. Talk about a career backup, right? A guy that's failed everywhere he's gone to be a starter. But I don't think the 49ers are going to ship Jimmy Garoppolo within the division. I can't see that happening.

So where else? OK. Let's go through this, all right? Art Martinez, you ready for this? Here we go. Buffalo doesn't need a quarterback. Patriots don't need a quarterback.

Well, maybe if two Tagovailoa bombs this year, they do. But going into this year, they're not going to make a move for Jimmy G. And the Jets are invested in Zach Wilson as a number two overall pick going into year two. They're not making a move for Jimmy Garoppolo, right? So everybody in the AFC East is out. AFC North. OK, the Ravens have Lamar Jackson. Cleveland has, whenever he's going to play, Deshaun Watson. Since then, he's got Joe Burrow. Pittsburgh is an option, right?

Sure, yeah. Pittsburgh is out who? Mason Rudolph. They have, they're an absolute mess there, right? I mean, Pittsburgh got quarterback trying to place Ben Roethlisberger.

Doesn't exactly have a ton of guys. They just drafted with a first-round pick. They brought in Kenny Pickett. So they spent a first-round pick on the guy, so I don't think that they're going to make a move for Jimmy Garoppolo, unless they think Garoppolo is a one-stop, one-year type of guy, and then Pickett's ready to play in year two.

Possible. But they got Trubisky. They have Rudolph.

They have Pickett. I don't think he's getting moved there, right? I don't think they have such a need for Jimmy Garoppolo, and I'm not sure he's a massive upgrade as to what potentially they may have there. So I think every team right now in the AFC North also is not an option. Agreed? Yeah, and he may not fit the Steelers scheme as well, you know?

You've got to factor that in, too. Okay, we can take the AFC West already out of there, right? Mahomes, Carr, Herbert, Russell Wilson. Not going to the AFC West.

No. AFC South. Titans are going to ride with Tannehill. Maybe it's not the right move, but they're going to ride with Tannehill. And I don't know if Jimmy Garoppolo is an upgrade over Ryan Tannehill.

Okay. The Jacksonville Jaguars, Trevor Lawrence. He's already there. Houston Texans seem to like Davis Mills, and why not? Davis Mills played well last year when he had an opportunity, okay?

When people talk about rookie quarterbacks last year, who was the best rookie quarterback? You know, Mac Jones played well last year, but I'll be honest with you, Davis Mills was pretty good. I mean, Davis Mills, what, 13 games, threw for 2,600 yards, completed close to 67% of his passes, 16 touchdowns, 10 interceptions, playing on a bad team.

Showed a lot. Showed enough where he will get an opportunity in year number two as the starting quarterback. And he's a lot cheaper than what Garoppolo's going to be because Davis Mills was, what, a third-round pick, fourth-round pick, so he's not costing you a lot of money. The Indianapolis Colts brought in Matt Ryan. Now, Matt Ryan's a stopgap, but Jimmy G's probably a stopgap. You're not trading for Jimmy G to sit behind Matt Ryan for the next couple of years. Doesn't make any sense.

Doesn't make any sense. So there's not a single team in the AFC right now where Jimmy Garoppolo fits, which means if he's going to be moved by the 49ers, it's got to be within the conference, right? It's not going to be in the division.

Why? Because you have Kyler Murray, you have Matt Stafford, and again, I don't think Seattle is going to get him because I don't think the 49ers are going to let him play in the NFC West. He'll play against them twice. Play against them twice.

Not going to happen. Cowboys have Dak Prescott. The Eagles seem to like Jalen Hurts a lot more than I like Jalen Hurts, to be honest with you, but they like him. Washington, well, you know, I mean, you look at, well, the Giants have Daniel Jones. All right, that's a landing spot potentially, but I really think they're going to roll with Daniel Jones next year and see what they have in a sixth overall pick with different coaches, different schemes. That could be a case.

Okay. But then you look at Washington and the commanders and you say to yourself, who's the quarterback there? Well, they brought in Carson Wentz. So if they're going to ride with Carson Wentz and not making a move to then use Wentz as a backup, right?

So knock Washington off the list. And they already have a backup. Taylor Heineken, who started all last year, he's on the bench.

And he was good. So the fact is he doesn't fit there either. There's really no place for next season that Jimmy Garoppolo fits in the NFC East. In the north, Aaron Rodgers, Kirk Cousins. I mean, I guess they roll with Jared Goff in Detroit, right? I mean, is Garoppolo an upgrade?

Probably a little bit. And Chicago's got Justin Fields. Tampa Bay in the south has Tom Brady. The Saints are going Jamis Winston. The Carolina Panthers just made a move for Baker Mayfield, so it's not going to be there. And then the Atlanta Falcons.

Well, that's the interesting one, right? The Falcons have who? Marcus Mariota? Desmond Ritter?

Felipe Franks? I don't know. I mean, where exactly are the Falcons quarterback situation? Maybe that's a spot that makes some sense. It's listed as Mariota as the starting quarterback. Exactly.

Which is not something you should be comfortable with. That may be the only spot. I mean, I'm looking at every other team here. We have literally gone through every other team. And there is not a fit for Jimmy Garoppolo that makes sense. Or for the Niners to ship him somewhere that makes sense, except the Atlanta Falcons. That's the only spot that he potentially can land at that makes sense, right? The other factor is if we get into the season and somebody gets hurt, then they're going to have to trade.

I don't think, by the way, how funny is it? The Falcons will play at home against the 49ers week six. Ooh. How great's that? Watch him get traded that week and literally change locker rooms.

Yeah, exactly. After the game and say, hey Jimmy, by the way, don't bother hopping on the team flight back. We've just shipped you to the Falcons.

Congratulations, you're home. That'd be hilarious. But that's the only place that makes sense.

Now, you're right. Maybe they wait and see if there's a quarterback that goes down in training camp. They've waited long enough, right? But is it comfortable if you're Trey Lance and they traded up to get you third overall in the draft? You got to play at some point, so you think this is the year that you're going to start, right? You don't invest a third overall pick on a guy and bench him for more than a year. And last year you could say, well, because he's coming from North Dakota State, we thought it's best that he sit out a year because he needs some seasoning, right?

Kind of let the NFL game come to him a bit more. Let him go through practices in the NFL so that he'll be more comfortable in year two. Now, if he doesn't play year two, then you have to start thinking maybe it's an issue with his skill, right? Then you start to worry, do we just spend a ton of capital in terms of draft picks to trade up to third overall to draft a guy that actually isn't good enough to play year two?

And then you have to start putting a bust label. So I don't think the 49ers are ready for Trey Lance to not play this year. He's going to play. But does he want Jimmy Garoppolo kind of over his shoulder, right? What if Trey Lance is awful in preseason and Jimmy Garoppolo is great? 49er fans just want to win, right? It's not okay we want to suffer through a young quarterback.

It's we want to win. And if Jimmy G is looking great, the question then is maybe Jimmy G is a better option in year two and then Trey Lance is relegated back to the bench. So I don't know if you want to have an unhealthy situation there in training camp and preseason games where Jimmy Garoppolo is going to be vying for a starting job. He's not going to sit back and accept being a backup, right?

He's too young for that. So if you're going to deal him, deal him. If you're going to bring him back, then, well, you got to open it up for him to potentially start.

But that's a messy situation, as I just highlighted. So there comes a point where you have to say to yourself, okay, do we just take pennies on the dollar and maybe even have to ship them within our division to get rid of them? But do we want to face Jimmy Garoppolo twice a year with the Seattle Seahawks, which potentially could be the case because, again, we've highlighted every team. There's only two teams that probably need him right now, this offseason for this coming season, the Atlanta Falcons and the Seattle Seahawks. And if you had to choose, if you're the Niners and John Lynch, you'd rather ship him to Atlanta where you don't face him twice a year. Yeah, you face him week six, but you don't face him twice a year the way that you face Seattle, which would be week number three. And then you would also face him, you know, excuse me, no, the Falcons are playing Seattle week three, but you're going to face him twice a year.

Not a comfortable spot. So in terms of leverage, by the way, if you're Jimmy Garoppolo, it's not like you have a ton of leverage, right? It's not like, hey, guys, I have like six teams that want me really bad, right? Like, let me choose between six teams. It's Atlanta or Seattle.

Hmm. Where are you going? All right, if you got to pick between Seattle and Atlanta. That's a good question. I would tend towards, I would tend towards Atlanta.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think it's a cheaper cost of living in Atlanta. And you're in a dome, too.

You're in a dome. Weather's better in Atlanta than it is in Seattle. You know, summers in Seattle like here are beautiful when it doesn't rain.

Winters are miserable. You have a better fan base by a mile in Seattle, right? Much more, much, much more loyal fan base in Seattle. I mean, look, Atlanta's more of a transplant city these days.

Seattle has a better roster than the Falcons, I guess. Yeah, I guess. I mean, we're not talking about great options here. No, this is pretty much the bottom of the barrel.

Yeah, this is it. I don't know. That's really tough to say what makes more sense for him.

Like, where where does it make more sense for him to go? Man, that's tough. Let me bring one thing up to you. Yeah, Bill Belichick. He was really a fan of Jimmy Garoppolo back in the day, right? Loved him.

Drafted him second round. Yeah. You think that they could make a trade and bring him back as a backup? Yeah. He'd be a highly paid backup.

Highly paid back. You know what? The problem is, if you want to get somebody as a good backup quarterback for Mac Jones, you've got to bring in somebody who is like older, who is not vying to be the starter, who understands what his role is, who understands that he is nearing the end of his career and his wisdom is really what his selling point is, right? Like Brian Hoyer.

Perfect example. Problem is, you bring in Jimmy Garoppolo, what are you doing, right? If you bring in Jimmy Garoppolo, he's going to try to win the starting job. You send mixed messages. Right. What's the message you're sending Mac Jones who had a good rookie year?

The message is, hey, you had a nice year, but we want you to compete for the starting job year two. No, you don't want him to have to go through that. You want him to kind of feel comfortable, right? He's entrenched as a starting quarterback. So give me a backup that's going to sit with him, watch film, who's going to explain what he's seeing out there, who's going to kind of be a mentor more than a competitor. And Garoppolo's still young enough where he's looking to be a starting quarterback in this league for a while. You know, he's been a starter. So I don't think it would be a healthy reunion to bring Jimmy Garoppolo back to the Patriots as a backup quarterback to Mac Jones. Now, the other option is you tell Jimmy, look, Jimmy, you got to be a backup this year, and I'm not sure if Matt Ryan's going to be there more than a year, or I'm not sure James Winston's going to survive as a starting quarterback for more than a year. You know, you have to try to sell him on that, that there's a possibility long term of being the starting quarterback at a certain spot.

But year one, he's got to start off on the bench. Maybe that's where it's going to be. Or, like I said before, if we get into the season and somebody gets really injured, they're going to be desperate for a quarterback.

Yeah, that could be. But again, I don't know if the 49ers want to go into training camp with Jimmy Garoppolo there, breathing down the neck of Trey Lance. It's going to be an interesting little talk.

We'll find out. Howard Balzer is going to join us on the other side here. And Howard, of course, has been around the NFL a very long time. He's a Hall of Fame selector, co-host of Weekly Hall of Fame Radio on Sirius XM's NFL Radio as well.

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Goes on dry, clean feel all day. Twenty-two past the hour, it is hour two. Dan Schwartzman in for Rich Eisen, The Rich Eisen Show on a Thursday. Jimmy Garoppolo, where can he possibly land? The only two teams I've identified are Seattle and Atlanta. And Seattle's within the division of the 49ers.

Can't see that happening. Can it be the Falcons as we continue to inch closer and closer to the start of training camps, preseason football. And before you know it, September's right around the corner and we will have NFL football regular season action. Our buddy Howard Balzer, Hall of Fame selector, co-host of weekly Hall of Fame radio show on Sirius XM's NFL radio. Joining us, Howard, before we get into the Baker-Mayfield deal to Carolina, the next guy potentially on the move at that position is Jimmy Garoppolo. I went through every team in the NFL that could potentially use him.

I've identified Seattle and Atlanta. Am I missing a potential landing spot or is he just going to kind of sit around in San Francisco and battle Trey Lance again for the starting job? Thanks.

Good to be with you, Dan. Yeah, I mean, he could end up sitting around. I think that's a long shot at this point. I think it's pretty clear that the 49ers want to go with Trey Lance. But then again, if Lance comes up short or has some issues, it's not a bad thing to have Garoppolo there. But I don't know that the 49ers want to keep him around, especially at the salary that he's due, and they want to try to get deals done for Nick Bosa and Deebo Samuel. So I think the one team that could be a possibility, and it all hinges on what happens with Deshaun Watson, could be Cleveland. And I don't know if anybody is truly convinced that if Watson has a long suspension, whether it's eight games, 12 games a year, whatever it might be, that the Browns are truly committed to going with Jacoby Brissett.

So I think at least that would be a spot to look at. Granted, dollars would be a big issue there, because they have money on the books for Watson, although if he's suspended they could try to get some of the signing bonus back. They have money on the books for Mayfield now that he has been traded. And what would be the contractual relationship if they got Garoppolo? He'd probably have to take a pay cut, but if he felt it's going to help him play, then that might be something that he would entertain. So it'll be interesting to see how this all plays out by the time camp starts in just a few weeks.

It's right around the corner. Don't they have to, though, play Trey Lance even if he doesn't look good, and the reason is you send off a lot of draft capital to move up to third overall to take him, right? You bench him year one saying, okay, he's coming from North Dakota State.

Obviously the competitive level is a little different. He needs a year of seasoning. If he's sitting out a second year, you have to start thinking as a 49er fan, maybe he's just not that good, and we wasted all these draft picks and a high pick on him, right? So aren't they kind of doing a rock and a hard place in terms of trying to sell Trey Lance to the fans as being the quarterback of the future, considering they gave up so much to get him?

No, I think you're right on it. I think they do have to play him. And so if there was an injury, that would be one issue, unless he was just awful. I mean, when I say looking to possibly replace him, it would be if he was just awful.

I don't think that'll happen. He came in last year when he started against Arizona when Garoppolo was hurt on the road, and it was relatively early in the season, and he had some accuracy issues, but he ran the ball well, did a pretty nice job. So I think they will commit to him. I think he will be the guy, because the other thing you have to look at, Dan, is everyone always talks about these rookie contracts that these high pick quarterbacks are under, but those three years go quick, and when you get to that third year, after the third year, you have to make that decision on the fifth-year option and whether to exercise it, and that number just keeps getting higher and higher. So yeah, I think he will be the guy. And let's remember, too, the 49ers will do all they can to lessen how much they ask him to do, because they still are a very run-oriented offense. And when they run the ball well, and he'll run as part of it, he has good receivers there, plus tight end George Kittle if he can stay healthy. So I think he'll play well enough to keep that job. I think it's a long shot that Garoppolo is there, but who knows? Who knows what the 49ers will do, but I know they do want to get that salary off the books so they can get some of these other deals done. But the only guy they have right now of note, and I don't even know if it's fair to say of note, behind Trey Lance without Garoppolo is Nate Suddfeld. I mean, he's played some good football in the past, but whether you really want to go with him is another question. Howard Balzer joining us here on the Rich Eisen Show.

Dan Schwartzman in for Rich on this Thursday. In any scenario, can you see them shipping him off to a divisional rival in Seattle who, by the way, could use him? I would doubt that that would happen, and it seems, and you never know with the Seahawks, but it seems that they are committed to going to camp. They're going to camp, obviously, in a few weeks, with Geno Smith and Drew Locke battling it out. And they might feel, again, it comes down to dollars, a certain amount of it, and they might just feel that, hey, Garoppolo is a good player, certainly, but they might just very well feel that we've got to find out about these two guys and just go with them. Why they're changing several other things on that team in this transition year without Russell Wilson, without Bobby Wagner, and all of that.

So I would be surprised somewhat by Seattle. I think you mentioning Atlanta is somewhat intriguing because of Marcus Mariota. I think Marcus Mario is a pretty good football player, but what everyone forgets is that when he was the starter in Tennessee, he wasn't able to stay healthy. And so the question is now, and I'm sure if there's just him and the rookie, that he will win that job. But the question is, will he stay healthy? And that's the biggest question about him because it's affected him in the past. I think Pete Carroll has as much a chance to win games with Howard Balzer and Dan Schwartzman going to campus quarterbacks as Geno Smith and Drew Locke.

My goodness, that can't be serious. I mean, I'm a Jeff and I remember Geno Smith. He's known for getting punched more than he is for anything he did on the field there. So again, I think that's a terrible quarterback situation. Now, let's turn to Carolina. A year ago, they got fleeced by Joe Douglas and the New York Jets, shipping a second and a fourth, ended up being a high second round pick for Sam Darnold. In your mind, did they kind of fleece Cleveland here, shipping off at best a fourth round pick in 2024, at worst a fifth round pick? Plus, Cleveland's picking up about two-thirds of the base salary right now. Do you give Carolina the win right now?

Yeah, I think you'd have to give them the win. As we see how this plays out, you're right about the salary. Now, if it turns out that Mayfield plays a certain percentage of the downs, then the money that he's giving up in the pay cut, he can earn back, assuming he wins that job.

You would think he would. Darnold was playing decent football last year at first stretch, then he got hurt, then Christian McCaffrey got hurt again. That's the biggest question with Cleveland. I don't know if any quarterback would be successful there unless Christian McCaffrey is healthy, unless they find lightning in the bottle with some other running back if McCaffrey can't. But yeah, for what they had to give up, not much. What they have to pay, even if they end up having to pay him a bunch of that other money. For a starting quarterback in the NFL, it's not a whole lot. And obviously, Mayfield is motivated to play as well as he can so he can get a contract next year. What's interesting, of course, is Darnold, assuming he's on the roster, will make more than Mayfield. I don't know if there's ever been a time in NFL history where the first and third round pick in a draft are now on the same team and they're both quarterbacks. And they were both scheduled to make the same amount of money on their fifth year option, but now Mayfield is taking the cut so he's making a bit less.

But Darnold is making that close to $18.9 million. So that's a very interesting situation there for Matt Rule and the Panthers. And I think Rule realizes that they've got to make something happen this year. Otherwise, who knows what happens with him because I don't know how patient the owner is going to be if they have another season of struggle. Now, Howard, if you were on a hot seat the way that Matt Rule probably is under David Tepper, who wants to win games, and he paid a bullet of money for that franchise, are you going with Baker Mayfield or Sam Darnold as your starter week one?

I would probably go with Mayfield. I think mainly because he has shown that you can win games with him. And of course, everyone remembers what happened recently. But last year, he got hurt in game two and then was not the same player after that. And the Browns had a bunch of other injuries too. I mean, Nick Chubb was injured. And they had some real issues in the whole situation with Odell Beckham Jr. So I think Mayfield has proven that he can help a team win games.

Darnold hasn't done that yet. But again, as I mentioned earlier, Dan, it still comes down to being healthy at the other spots because no matter how good a quarterback is or isn't, he's not going to be successful without the supporting cast. And to me, that's the biggest question in Carolina, especially when you look at those last two seasons where Christian McCaffrey, as I mentioned earlier, he's hardly played at all in the last two years.

And if something like that happens again, then I seriously question how successful they can be, even though they do have a pretty good defense. Howard, you know, if you look at the NFL, the wide receiver position has obviously changed. The landscape is significantly different where they used to be the diamond dozen position, the way running backs looked at now.

Now they're the highest paid guys making ridiculous sums of money. Devonta Adams goes from the Packers. He goes to the Las Vegas Raiders. Are you expecting a drop off considering he's going from maybe the greatest quarterback in history in Aaron Rodgers to Derek Carr, who's good, but he's the fourth best quarterback in his own division right now? But I think you made the point whether he's the fourth best in the division doesn't matter. It's how well he plays for the Raiders. And he played well enough last year to help them get into the playoffs.

He's had a pretty good career. And plus, you know, he and Adams obviously are very close from having played together in college. So certainly he's not Aaron Rodgers. There's no doubt about that. But there's a lot of receivers who put up numbers in this league that have quarterbacks that aren't Aaron Rodgers.

So could there be somewhat of a drop off perhaps? But they've got a pretty good core there. Some pretty good receivers, good tight end and Darren Waller, good running game. And so I think that that's a vision, man, that that's going to be an incredible division to watch this season because you can make a case for just as it'll sound crazy for Kansas City for me to say this, but you can make a case for any team in that division finishing first or last. I'm not sure how good Denver will be. I know a lot of people are very high on them just because they have Russell Wilson. But, you know, they have some good talent around him, but some of it is unproven. Maybe some of it's unproven because they really haven't had a quarterback. So that's going to be a heck of a division to watch. And, I mean, heck, even Denver without the quarterback last year still won seven games. So it's not a stretch to think that they could win 10 or 11 with Russell Wilson.

And, I mean, heck, you'll have a fourth place team in that division that could be over 500 and won't be in the playoffs. Howard Balzer joining us here on the Rich Eisen Show. Dan Schwartzman in for Rich.

Last question. You know, look, Russell Westbrook's been in the news a lot, and that's because the Lakers are trying to get rid of him, but they can't. And I bring him up because of this. Dak Prescott's going into year seven. And as good as he's been in the regular season, they haven't won anything as a team, right? Actually, they haven't won anything in a long time.

A lot of people, not a lot, but I've heard whispers. Is Dak Prescott the Russell Westbrook or Carmelo Anthony of the NFL? A guy that puts up great individual numbers, but when push comes to shove, he hasn't won anything. Is the hot seat there for him in terms of kind of being that guy, the next guy up who has to win something?

Well, I think in terms of the chatter and the narrative outside the team, yeah, he probably does. I, quite honestly, Dan, I have always bought into it because I know we put a lot on quarterbacks, and we often say he won or he lost, but it is a team game. And a lot of other things have to go right on a team for a team to win, obviously, in a league that's as competitive as the NFL. But yeah, if they continue along this path, which has really gone on for the last almost three decades of not being very successful consistently, much less in the postseason.

And yeah, those things will start being said about Prescott. Oh, they can't win. They can't win.

Well, like I said, teams win. A lot of things have to go right with the passing game, with the offensive line protecting them. I think that's been a big factor with the Cowboys in recent seasons where the offensive line has been somewhat unstable. But the defense is getting better, and that's been one big improvement for them. The vision isn't very good, but man, when you get into the playoffs in this league and you're playing against all these good teams, man, to me it's tough to blame. It's because of the quarterback. You just lose. You just lose to better teams sometimes on that given day.

But the way the narrative is, you're right about the way the narrative is, but like I said, I haven't always bought into it. I mean, what do the Chargers ever really do with Philip Rivers? Does that mean he wasn't a great quarterback all those years? I think he's one of the best that's played in the last two decades. But I know there's some who view him as not because they didn't win big when he was there. And you can make the argument, when you look at the big three quarterbacks of that draft, all Hall of Famers, right? Philip Rivers, Eli Manning, Ben Roethlisberger. In terms of pure talent, Rivers may have been the best of the three.

Yeah, he very well might have been. And you mentioned Eli Manning. And people say, oh yeah, Hall of Famer, two Super Bowl rings.

But as I pointed out, I think that's going to be a very intriguing discussion when he becomes eligible. But the winning record for him, and again, it's not only him because it's not just the quarterback that wins or loses. Just like it's not only the pitcher, but they get credit for wins and losses. But the winning percentage is about 500 overall in his career. And the two Super Bowls they won over the Patriots were mainly because of the defense. He made big plays in those games, don't get me wrong. But overall, that defense was what kept them in the game and allowed the Giants to beat the Patriots. Especially that year when the Patriots were undefeated. So yeah, I think you're right about that. Rivers was incredibly talented.

A lot of things. And when you're losing every year, most of the time when you're in the playoffs and you're losing to the Colts with Peyton Manning, or you're losing to the Patriots with Tom Brady, is that really on, Philip Rivers? I don't necessarily believe so.

All right, got to throw this out then. Because you brought up, you know, we got a little bit into Eli Manning there. If Eli Manning's name was Eli Balzer or Eli Schwartzman and he played for the Jacksonville Jaguars and had his resume, are we talking Hall of Fame or because of the fact he played in New York with the Giants and his last name is Manning, that's why he's getting more cred than maybe he deserves? If it was Jacksonville and it was a different last name, are we talking Hall of Fame?

It's a great question. And I think there would still be talk, but I don't think it would be all automatic. And I know people bring up Jim Plunkett to Super Bowl wins. Now granted, he did not have the overall career and the consistency that Eli Manning had. And you can't blame Eli Manning when the team wasn't that good around him. But still, you look at the overall career and it's based pretty much on those Super Bowls, which is a team thing. And so yeah, it's a great question. Would the perception and the belief in him be the same if it wasn't a team in New York?

And I think you can make an argument that it might be very different. I can't wait to hear what happens in that Hall of Fame room when they debate Eli Manning. Howard, tell us what happens there when it does happen.

Howard Balzer, Hall of Fame selector, co-host of the weekly Hall of Fame radio show on Sirius XM's NFL radio. Howard, always a pleasure, my friend. Appreciate you hopping on. My pleasure, Dan. Take care. Have a good one.

You too. What a great topic Eli Manning is. Man, that's a good one. If his name wasn't Manning and he didn't play for the Giants and get a lot of primetime games for people to see and have that great personality and be that friendly guy that can joke and laugh at himself. If he was Phillip Rivers' Sirius and played for the Jacksonville Jaguars and his last name was Schwartzman or Martinez, Art, is Eli Manning as sure thing of a Hall of Famer as people believe him to be? Yeah, good question.

Whoo! I mean, look at those stats. I mean, Eli Manning, look, Eli had a nice career, no question about it. Multiple Super Bowl wins are nice, right?

It's nice, but the statistics overall, okay? And remember, he played at a time where it's a passing league. So he threw for 57,000 yards, which is a lot, but, you know, every year people are now surpassing that number. 366 touchdowns. Never led the league in touchdowns, by the way, or yards passing. Did lead the league, by the way, in interceptions three times in his career. Threw for 244 interceptions to 366 touchdowns. Completed barely 60% of his passes, 60.3. His one loss record as a starting quarterback in the NFL, 117 and 117. He's a 500 quarterback.

That's it. He truly is, yeah. And Howard mentioned it, he truly is Jim Plunkett, you know?

Yeah, maybe a little bit more consistency, that's it, you know? Two Super Bowls, yeah, absolutely. Threw for 30 touchdowns twice in his career, 31 and 30.

That's a tough one. You know, when you look at his postseason, the playoffs, right, you know, didn't go to a lot of playoffs, especially later in that career. And Plunkett's not in the Hall of Fame either. No, I mean, you know how many years Eli Manning went to the playoffs? Six, that's it. 2005, six, seven, eight, and then 2011 and 2016, and his one loss record in the playoffs is eight and four, which is nice. And it was those two Super Bowl runs in 07 and 2011. Can't take those away.

Was a very good postseason quarterback, but overall, though, he's a 500 quarterback. What a great debate he is. You know what, let's get into that.

We'll have some fun with that next. Dan Schwartzman in for Rich Eisen on a beautiful Thursday, at least here on the East Coast. Not sure what the rest of the country looks like.

Not a weatherman. We got plenty to come. Hour three as well.

We'll get into the NBA. The latest with Kevin Durant still twilling his thumbs in Brooklyn. It's the Rich Eisen Show. It is the Rich Eisen Show. Dan Schwartzman in for Rich on Thursday here.

I'll be back tomorrow as well. NFL Talk with our buddy Howard Balzer. Some fun things came out of that one. First of all, the Eli Manning Hall of Fame debate. Take out the name Manning. Take out the Giants.

Put in another team. Jacksonville Jaguars, a team like that. And the last name Smith.

Are we talking Hall of Fame? Two Super Bowl rings beat Tom Brady. The defense is, of course, a big part of that. David Tyree, a huge part of that as well, by the way. He's the one that caught the pass on his helmet. Wasn't a great pass, first of all, and there wasn't open Amani Toomer, too, he missed. But whatever.

History is history. Then he threw the touchdown to Plexico Burz. They win the game and destroy the Patriots' attempt at a perfect season. Look, he's not a first ballot Hall of Famer. He's probably going to make it, but he's not a first ballot Hall of Famer. Just because of that, he should be in the Hall of Fame. Because he beat Brady twice?

And he's hilarious on Twitter when him and Brady go back and forth? Yeah, no, but just because he ruined their perfect season. Just because of that. Yeah, you're just mad at the tuck rule. Oh, absolutely. I'll never get over it.

You shouldn't, by the way. I'm completely robbed, but still, I cannot put Eli in the Hall of Fame first ballot. In fact, honestly, in terms of pure ability, I think Rivers and Roethlisberger are better players than him. But Rivers didn't win any Super Bowls.

And by the way, they were traded for each other, let's not forget. That's right. Phillip Rivers didn't want to play where? No, Eli did not want to play in San Diego.

That's right. Eli didn't want to play in San Diego. And there's that hilarious picture on draft night when he's actually holding up a Chargers jersey because he was a member of the Chargers. For 15 minutes. For 15 minutes, and then he got traded. He's got that unhappy look on his face that like, what am I doing holding this jersey face?

He was not pleased, but it worked out for him. But that's going to be interesting to hear what comes out of that room when the writers debate Eli Manning's Hall of Fame candidacy. Like, you could sell the two Super Bowl rings, right?

But what else? What else are you selling on Eli Manning's resume? Tons of interceptions. Yeah, he had 366 touchdowns, 57,000 yards.

Okay. Again, never led the league in touchdown passes or yards passing. Led the league interceptions three times. 117 and 117 was his career record as a starting quarterback in the regular season.

Literally 500. Obviously a better postseason quarterback. So then are we sticking Joe Flacco in because of that, right? Joe Flacco is a heck of a postseason quarterback now. He only has one ring, and that's the difference. I just have a hard time with it.

I really do. I have a hard time putting Eli Manning in the Hall of Fame. Well, do you have a hard time putting Jim Plunkett in the Hall of Fame?

He's pretty much the same guy. Yes, and that's why I have a hard time, you know, obviously putting Eli in. And people feel like it's a different generation, right, for Jim Plunkett and Eli Manning. I mean, Jim Plunkett was also a first pick in the draft, I believe, right out of Stanford.

Yes. His career record is also 72 and 72, exactly 500. You know, he had too many ebbs and flows in his career.

And you can't look at numbers, obviously, because back then numbers were different, right? Like Joe Namath threw for more interceptions than touchdowns. Plunkett threw more interceptions than touchdowns.

Completion percentage was a little over 50%. That's because that's the way football was back then. He just kind of threw it up at times, right?

So... But he won two Super Bowls. Yeah, I threw for 20, almost 26,000 yards, 164 touchdowns, 198 interceptions. Never led the league in touchdowns or yards.

Did lead the league in interceptions once. No, I can't put it, I can't put Plunkett in. I know he won twice, but I can't put Plunkett in. And Eli's a tough, you know, Eli at least has some statistics, right? Plunkett statistics are very pedestrian. Yeah, I'm not putting Plunkett in, and Eli's not getting in on the first ballot.

Not happening. Wow, you're tough. Yeah, I'm tough. I am tough.

Yeah, I think I'm tough with that. And then the Dak Prescott situation. I want to, you know, Dak Prescott's an interesting story. You know, we're six years into Dak Prescott being, this is year seven of Dak Prescott being the starting quarterback.

The Dallas Cowboys. And, you know, except for that 2020 where he got hurt, he's played pretty much every game, right? Last season, he played 16 of the 17 games.

Before that, and prior to 2020, from 2016 through 2019, for four years, he played every game. Overall, his statistics are really, really good. Now, this is a guy that's thrown for over 22,000 yards in 85 games, 143 touchdowns, only 50 interceptions, coming off a tremendous season. 37 touchdowns, 10 picks last year. His quarterback rating for his career is shade under 99. In fact, he's never had a season under 96.9, except for his second year in the league, that little sophomore slump. So, statistically, Dak Prescott is really, you know, a tremendous quarterback. No question about it, right? I mean, Dak Prescott is on his way to one heck of a career.

But what does that all mean? And I say that because people are starting to question, is he the Russell Westbrook or Carmelo Anthony of the NFL? Great individual numbers, but isn't taking the team anywhere. His playoff record's one in three. He's been to playoffs three years, four games, and they're one in three. He's done his share. You know, he's played fairly well.

It's hard to say, right? I mean, plenty of career left for Dak Prescott. I'm not ready to label him Russell Westbrook or Carmelo Anthony, aka just a stat compiler.

I think he's more than just a stat compiler, and he still has plenty of football left, right? Russell Westbrook is on the downslope of his career. Carmelo Anthony's now just a role player who just kind of hangs on because he loves basketball. But neither guy is winning rings and, you know, really being a champion, or even if they're winning rings, doing it because of them, right? Did Carmelo win a ring with the Lakers?

I have to look it up. I hope not, but I mean, did Carmelo Anthony win a ring with the Lakers? Because the Lakers won what? Two years ago? They won the championship? Or was that last year? Was that two years ago? Two years ago.

2020, 2021, right? Yeah, because it was Milwaukee after that. Okay, so he was not. He was not with the Lakers. He was with the Lakers just last year. Okay, so he did not win a ring. So Carmelo is ringless, and he's played in this league a very, very long time. He's nearing, what, 20 years in this league, and Russell Westbrook has never won a ring and probably never will win a ring unless he just kind of latches onto a team. Prescott's six years in, so before we start labeling him the ultimate stat compiler like Westbrook or Carmelo, let's give the guy like another five, six years, right?

But then if he's not winning anything by then, then we will reintroduce this conversation, and we will call him the NFL's version of Russell Westbrook slash Carmelo Anthony. All right, Brittney Griner in Russia, developments in her case. What does it mean? And ultimately, is she going to be coming home anytime soon?

There is a big development, but does it really help her at all? Hour three coming up next, I am Dan Schwartzman filling in for Rich Eisen on a Thursday right here on the Rich Eisen Show. For the real story behind some of wrestling's biggest moments, it's something to wrestle with Bruce Prichard and Conrad Thompson, too. All-time Hogan opponents, Macho Man's got to be in the conversation. Where's Andre for you? I've always said Andre was number one. Wow. Even going back before Hulk Hogan was a babyface, Hulk and Andre were able to go in and headline at the New Orleans Superdome at Shea Stadium in Japan. Wherever they went, that was an attraction. Something to wrestle with Bruce Prichard. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.