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It's broken curses and broken hearts. But for those chasing it, it's everything. The only question is, who will take it? You just have to watch the Stanley Cup final presented by Geico on ABC and the ESPN app. This is the Rich Eisen Show.
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Now, on with the show. This is the Rich Eisen Show. And they're right back in this series. From the Rich Eisen Show studio in Los Angeles. Fucks!
The biggest shot of the series! Today's guests. ESPN NBA Insider Brian Windhorse. 49ers tight end George Kittle. ESPN college basketball analyst Jay Billis.
Actor and comedian Eric Andre. And now, it's Rich Isen. All right, everybody, welcome to this edition of the Rich Eisen Show Live in Los Angeles, California on Disney Plus, the ESPN app, ESPN Radio, coast to coast, the Rich Eisen Show. Radio network coast to coast on ESPN Radio Sirius XM Channel 80. Hello to all of you.
844-204 Rich is the number to dial. We are four wide today. Man, some of my favorite people on this program. Brian Winhorse, first up. George Kittle.
Haven't checked in with George in a while. He's checking in from Tight End University. Hey. That's going down very shortly. Jay Billis, top of hour number three, to talk about the Brendan Saresby situation.
We figured, let's get an actual lawyer. And I'm wondering if this Brendan Swordsby ruling will actually cause Jay Billis to say words I've never heard him say before. I support the NCAA stance on this. That's coming up. Before Eric Andre.
So, I mean, we're going to go Jay Billis to Eric Andre back to back. That's what this show does. And I'll just let everyone know I got my rest last night just for the third hour.
So I can have all of my legales buttoned up, my P's and Q's all ready to go there. And then Eric Andre strolls into this studio to talk about his new movie, Little Brother, with John Ceno, who was on this show just a couple of weeks ago.
So that's how we're rolling today. Also with you, 844-204-Rich. Number to dial. Hello, Chris Brockman. Good to see you, sir.
Hello. Jason Fowler. Hello. Hello. Good to see you.
Good to see you. TJ Jefferson, candles lit. Good to see you. Candles lit. What's up, guys?
Okay.
So, I told all the Knick fans. This very thing. I said it from this seat. I said it from this seat after the Knicks came back from 22 down. To beat the Cavs in game one of the Eastern Conference Finals.
I said it then. And I knew it would be prophetic. When all the fans celebrating that Um come back rightfully with a jubilance Yeah. To hit the streets.
Some of them were chanting We Want Wemby. And I said Be careful what you wish for. Ladies and gents. And sure enough, Last night In game three of the NBA Finals moved to Madison Square Garden And the NBA Finals back after. A uh damn near 30-year respite.
Who showed up? With the proverbial vengeance, and started alley-ooping, and dunking, and rebounding, and blocking, and assisting, and just being. an all round avatar on the basketball court. That would be Victor Wembanyama. He was Absolutely.
the type of Wemby that the Spurs needed. In the moment. Me met it. He met the moment. He showed up.
Angry. He showed up. Defending, he showed up shoving. He showed up. With thirty-two points.
Eight rebounds, six assists, three blocks. That's it. That's it. And along with Stefan Castle back in his old Big East haunt. Eighteen first quarter points.
And five big ones down the stretch. They combined for 55 points, the most the two of them have combined for in this postseason in a game that didn't go to overtime. They showed up. D'Aaron Fox showed up. Dylan Harper showed up.
Devin Vassell showed up with some big shots. Julian Champagne back in his old big East haunt, St. John. Red Stormer showed up. He made some big threes.
Luke Cornet. He was shoving Josh Hart. Josh Hart shoves back. Hart's the one who gets the technical. He did not shove the ball after it went through the basketball.
He's not on the Celtics anymore. All right, so I'm calling it the way I see it. You may feel free to call it the way you see it as well. And the refs called it the way they saw fit last night. I'm leading with the fact.
that this Spurs team, Has the resolve. That definitely causes this series to be extended. And has the resolve to come back on Wednesday night and send it back to their house with everything even. Everything even. And Wembunyama, 10 in the fourth quarter.
He took care of business last night. And um You know. Show it up Zen. And I guess he prepared for it. Praying with the monks in the summer.
Praying with the monks in the summer and then. drawing in the park. I don't know if there was with a guy named George, but there he is. Gramercy Park. He was caught over the weekend drawing.
What the The individual caught this. Uh A statue We found out what the statue was, but this was Wembunyama after the game talking about. How he prepared for this game three. Really try to to relax. The playoffs is like a Uh I'm gonna say that word.
Worldwind. It's like It's hard to Put your head out of the water, and sometimes it's like, I don't even gotta watch the game back right away. I just need like a low time off, let my brain cool down. And recover. Recover as much for the body.
As for the mind. The statue, by the way, in Gramacy Park that he was drawing was of Edwin Booth. Oh. Brother of John Wilkes Booth. Really?
Indeed. I had no idea that. Edwins oh, has a statue in Gramercy Park. Hmm, I had no idea. And I guess Yeah.
Other than the fourth quarter, how was the game? That's funny.
Okay.
Yeah. Knicks fans. Other than the four quarters, how was the game? Because the Spurs, it felt obvious from the very beginning. But The Knicks came back, scored 42 in the Second quarter took a lead.
lost the lead in the third quarter and then the fourth quarter hit. Wembanyamo doing his thing. He was asked if he's now reached a villain status in Madison Square Garden. You obviously got NYX fans very riled up throughout the game. At one point, there was a colorful chant directed towards you.
It seems as though you may be New York's newest villain. Is that kind of the ultimate complement? It's a couple of minutes. Shhh. Our guests I'm nowhere near Trae Young level, though.
He's so damn likable. I mean, come on, villain. He's just Unstoppable when he plays from the free throw line in, and then obviously he'll make some threes too, but defensively. Defensively. I mean, the Spurs are pressuring the Knicks at the three-point line, right?
They're not getting into their offensive sets fast enough when they're not in the transition game. They're They're Now, finally, trying to get through the perimeter defense when there's what, like six, seven seconds left on the 24. They're hoisting up bad shots, and if they beat the perimeter defense, there's Wimbunyama. And that's what happens. in a tight game.
And in the fourth quarter of a tight game, it wasn't Wembanyama that brought them home. It was Steph Castle and De'Aaron Fox that brought them home. That three-point shot that Steph Castle hit from 26 feet out, 222 to go, just when the Knicks brought it to a four point, it was 108, 100. Knicks scored four unanswered, and then Castle hits that three. Man, was that right in your face?
And I thought to myself, Yukon guy in Madison Square Garden, he is not. Phased. By the moment? 111 108 After a Brunson pull-up three hits, nothing but the bottom of the net. Maybe I was like, whoa, DeAaron Fox gets in the paint.
What a gorgeous fifteen footer he hit. To put him up 113, 108. And then the Knicks get a three from OG Ananobi in the corner just when I think this thing's over. OG put up, I mean, a quick three. With Harper in his face.
Great defense, too. Yeah. And he makes that three, and it's a two-point game.
So now, though, the Knicks need somebody to miss a free throw, it's Castle who goes to the line, and he jars his two. And by the way, the three that Castle hit and those two free throws, only second half points for him. That's it. That was it. And when he made those free throws.
I knew the game was over. Actually, I knew the game was over when the Knicks took a seven-point lead at halftime and Chris texted the group: the series is over. I knew that was the end of the game for the Knicks. I knew they were going to lose. Actually, I texted after Brunson hit that walk-up three in the second ending.
Oh, so it was before halftime. Yeah, well, it was right before halftime.
Well, listen, you and Barkley had the same thought. He said the series was over during halftime. Didn't it feel like it? No, because it just felt off. The whole vibe felt off.
And I know, you know, the president's on everybody's top of mind. A 42-point second quarter, though. The whole vibe felt off. It just the Knicks showed up. And the Spurs hit him in the mouth.
The whole vibe felt off. There were no watch parties outside. I don't know how that would affect anything inside. Just like I said yesterday, vibrations count, man. Everything was thrown off from the fans to everything.
Not really, though. I mean, I kind of thought that coming into the game, but it was loud right at Tip. It was the fans were psyched. There was Celebrity Road never been better.
Well, it's inside. You know, I don't know. I'm talking about the overall, man. Like, like, I think that maybe you sitting at home, man. You know, we're going to have Wind Horse coming on.
You know, we'll ask him about this. But sitting at home, I felt the vibes were off. You know how I feel about Dolan, too. I just can't believe an NFL owner would ever. change anything up from a routine, right?
So, why would this NBA owner? He wasn't even sitting in his usual seat. But I guess he's not, you know, superstitious or anything like that. But at the end of the day, though, this was a tight game, and the Knicks didn't get it done. They didn't.
And, you know, I was livid with the officiating. You know, the Knicks were in the bonus with 9-18 to go in the fourth quarter. And the Spurs didn't have a single foul called them on at that point in time. I'm not saying the Knicks didn't foul. Their fouls were called.
And they're draped all over Wembanyama. I mean, they're treating him the same way the Thunder did. And the fouls were getting called, but you're telling me it's not being the other team was just as squeaky clean. Like what what there was that one sequence where it looked like Cat got fouled three different times. Yeah, it's just nuts.
And Mike Brown, you know, uh He's not chanting who let the dogs out now. You know what I mean? But he let his inner dog out about the officiating.
Now we didn't play good. San Antonio played great. We could have played better. There were a lot of things that we didn't do that we've done that we did in game one and game two. But to go 24 free throw attempts.
In a second half, That's 48 for the game if you think about it the way that they called that second half. Compared to eight. All the shots we took, we got fouled four times. Roughly? for eight free throw attempts.
Again, Yeah. I don't complain much. I never thought I'd see that in an NBA Finals game. And I saw it tonight. All right, he's talking to the officials.
Through the media. That's a very what Phil Jackson thing to do. Pat Riley thing to do. We'll see if that changes anything between games three and four. The free throw disparity in the second half was 24 to 8.
The free throw disparity overall. was 32 for the Spurs, 22 for the Knicks. But the Knicks were also 0 for 9 from three-point range until they started dropping with two and change to go in the fourth quarter. I mean, that's. What more do you need to know?
Carl Anthony Towns just took ten shots, that's all. Yeah. which is different from uh previous schemes one and two. And like I said, the Spurs hit them in the mouth, and they gave up 42 in the second quarter and then came back in the third quarter and won that quarter 35-27, flipped the script, and then in the fourth quarter. They were shooting free throws right away.
And I'd love to see that drawing of Edwin Booth because I'm sure it's just as beautiful as anything else. I'm tripping over why Edwin Booth. has a statue. I don't know. He's a New York's got a lot of history.
He's a a acclaimed stage actor from the 1890s. The uh the Spurs won the bench battle, which they had not done in the first two games.
So All right, it's on. It's on.
Now that you could say this series has begun. And I will just say this to, you know. To Knick fans. You know, in Brunson you trust. He he had four fouls.
He was in foul trouble. He was off. He still scored thirty two. And he didn't want to he wasn't buying into anything about the officiating. I think that's a sound by two we heard earlier, Mike Hoskins hit it.
I think we'd uh Turn the ball over a lot first and foremost, but then also we were fouling a lot and put them at the line about. 30 times. And um With our live ball turnovers, and I got them on transition, and uh, they were uh capitalizing off of those.
So, um We were definitely fouling a lot. That was his answer to the free throw disparity. That the Spurs had. He's like, we found a lot. We turned it over.
He wants no part of that. And he was asked point blank about the Wemby shoving him. to no effect. Jaylen, uh, what happened between you and Victor in the first quarter and did their level of physicality bother you? Uh no.
Um to answer your second question. And um Whatever you saw is what you saw. I'll tell you what I saw. What I saw was a tone setter. That was it.
I saw that, I'm like, okay. Officials aren't calling anything. I mean, Wemby just shoved him over. And You know, you look at it again, which You know, the l Officials could have, if they want to see if there was a flagrant foul, but there was no foul called at all.
So if they're going to let that go, where a forearm shiver knocks Jalen Brunson to the floor. Wembonyama came into the Knicks' house and shoved their star player. and potential statue-worthy player. to the floor. Refs don't call it.
And the Spurs are like, this is our house tonight. Essentially, set the tone. When we were kids watching basketball and playing this game, where's the enforcer for the Knicks? Hey, you can't do that to our star player. Why wouldn't someone take out Wemby?
Well, the enforcer to the Knicks is. Not allowed in the building. But who is the Oakley or the Knicks? They don't have how many teams have that guy, though? Who would even be that guy for the Spurs?
They used to have bullies, right? And then you'd have a goon who would clean up the bully. But then they got rid of all the goons and the bullies got to stay. Like, who's goon? Nobody hit Michael Jordan like that because Oakley was on the Bulls back then and he would take care of him.
And then Oakley was that way for Ewing.
So somebody does it to your guy. Where's the retaliation? I just said those guys don't allow those guys anymore. Those guys don't exist anymore. But the bullies are still out there.
I think those days are over. I don't know, man. I don't know. I mean, back in the day, Wemby's put on his butt, you know, after something like that gets no-called. No-called in the house of the New York Knickerbockers.
That was a tone setter. That's when I'm beginning to think: okay, this is not going to be the next night. Spurs had to win that game. They were more difficult.
Well, give them credit. They did it. They had to. They went in and did it. Physical playoffs.
I kind of like it. That's Stephon Castle. And Dylan Harper, Victor. You look at the Spurs, and you're like, these guys are going to be so good. And And they're three wins away from an NBA final.
They could actually do this. They could actually be the first team to lose their first two games at home to start in NBA Finals and come back and win it. They are one game away from having home court advantage back. Brian Winhorst was in the building last night. He's going to be on this show when we come back right here on The Rich Eisen Show, everybody.
The Rich Eisen Show Podcast. Rich Eisen here. Take a second and look at your city's calendar. Everywhere I go, there's always something coming up. Games, concerts, conventions, tournaments, the kind of events that bring people in from all over.
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Next starts now. Hyundai, an official partner of FIFA. You're on the Rich Eisen Show. All right, let's get right down to it. He was at Madison Square Garden last night, one of our favorites, Brian Winhorse, back on the program.
How are you doing, Brian? How are you, sir? Can I say real quick how much I'm enjoying how much I'm enjoying the Stuff with Dan Patrick on This Was Sports Center. Oh, thanks, Brian. I appreciate it.
And like. In real talk now, peeling back the curtain, like at this time of year. I need calming slash wholesome content to decompress. Yes, sir. Like, seriously, like, I can't take more analysis sometimes of the Western Conference finals.
And so, like, it's like been a. It's been like a calming I used to watch Colombo. I would watch Columbo. But I don't have time to watch now.
Sometimes I just have to listen. And so you bottom line, you've replaced Columbo. I appreciate that. I'm the Peter Falk of Brian Winhorst's Life. That's right.
I will counsel you to check the Chris Berman episode out. We just put that one out on Monday. Mike Greenberg's on Friday. Uh with Linda Cohn, Chris Fowler, and um And Craig Kilbourne to comment. Linda Coat is one of my favorite people at ESPN.
Well, me too. And the episode with the two of us, we are basically giggling for 90 straight. Perfect.
So perfect. And before we start, I appreciate you hopping on here. Are you in Stephen A's office? I'm seeing photographs and I see that cowboy pack. Oh, you're in Stephen A's office right now.
I am because. Long story short, there's a studio issue.
Okay.
And I'm going to tell you that there is a figurine behind me of CVNA that I specifically positioned this chair so that you wouldn't see it. But now that you figured out that I'm in his office, so first off, there's a lot of swatches for suits. Nice.
Okay.
I am going to get in so I could face sanctions. He's mad at Trump today, so I don't think he's going to get mad at me. There's all of these swatches for suits he's picking up. But now I'm going to show you this figurine. Yes, please.
And I wasn't going to show it to you, but since you caught me, I did. No, it's okay. It's mildly off-putting. And to be honest with you, to be honest with you, I'm keeping an eye on it as much as I can because I don't trust it.
Well, I think when I was a kid, it's keeping an eye on you, bro. When I was a kid, Chucky was a whole thing, and I'm a little off-put. I'm not going to turn off the light. I'm just going to leave it like that. Fantastic.
Brian Windhorst in Stephen A.'s office. Here after game three of the NBA Finals from New York City on the Rich Eisen Show. What was it like last night? Was it a different vibe than usual in Madison Square Garden?
So here's the only way it was different.
So more security.
So obviously. The entire area around the around the garden was messed up. And actually, Jay Williams said to me, I've never been to a Super Bowl. Jay Williams said this whole thing felt like a Super Bowl because celebrities, galore, Super high security, and it's you know, it's an event that takes up blocks around, and there's a security perimeter. I've been to big bowl games, and that's what it, you know, that's kind of what it feels like.
So, that's what it was like to get in. Here's how it was only materially different. The arena was jammed full 45 minutes to an hour before the game. I was thinking, boy, I wonder if people are going to be able to get in. That was the opposite thing.
The entire arena was filled. And so, as a result, the energy, and the Knicks, and the Knicks do this, and a lot of teams do this for every game, but they have like pre-packaged highlights with inspiring video to be on the scoreboard, except for usually it's playing for people eating hot dogs and like not paying attention and like maybe 8,000 or 9,000 people. This time, all 20,000 people were in their seats, being inspired, being fired up by the videos. And when the Knicks ran out to do their final warm-up 20 minutes before the game, it sounded like somebody just hit a game-wing shot to win at the buzzer of the fourth quarter. The energy in the building was very, very high.
And so, that was really the only material difference was the energy that was happening before tip-off and when the Knicks took the court. Once the game got started, and by the way, it affected the Spurs so dramatically that they got off to a 7-0 lead before the Knicks scored and led by 10 in the first quarter. Affect the Spurs at all. If anything, it possibly inspired them. And no matter what happened, no matter where you are on the spectrum.
The president was gone by early in the fourth quarter. The game was a one-point game going into the fourth quarter. All of that stuff was irrelevant when it came right down to it. I'm sure it was really good for storytelling and memories, but I do not think any of that had a material outcome on the game. All right.
So then the game itself. Wh what what were the Spurs able to affect? In game three, that the games one and two, they could not. Yeah, bro.
So, most of the time, when you, when you, a superstar player in a big moment, or really in any game, but really in a big moment game, you see that. I mean, you've seen this from LeBron, you saw this from Jordan. You can go down the line here. You see a player come out and want to set up and establish his teammates and then save his energy and save his influence for the later in the game. The superstars tend to make their move in the fourth quarter.
They're thoroughbreds who typically make late runs. Obviously, if they get red hot in the first quarter, it's not like they're going to pass up shots, but I don't think Victor Wembanyama, at least at this point, his career is wired that way. I think what we've seen in these big giant games in the conference finals and finals is you almost know within the first two or three minutes whether he's got his fastball. And I think his energy is something that sort of at this point, his career sort of ebbs and flows. And he needs to be a high energy player because what differentiates him isn't just his size.
It's his size with the skill. And part of his skill is the mobility and his ability to go in and out and up and down the court. And I just felt in games one and two, he didn't have that. His numbers were good. His numbers were misleading.
Like if you didn't watch the games and you were just like, well, he's averaging 27 and 10. Why are you saying he's not playing well? I'd be like, well, because he's shooting 40% and he's got 10 turnovers in two games. And he just was trailing plays a lot. He wasn't leading plays.
Totally, totally, totally different Victor Wembanyama. Like, by the way, we saw in like game six is. Seven of the Western Conference finals. He had three dunks in the first five minutes of the game. I think he only had two dunks in the first two games combined.
Um and played inside out looking for the lobs. Uh only one lob Bread Donkin games one and two combined. In game three. I mean, you could just see his total difference in the way he was moving. And then, you know, Steph Castle, who is not at this point in his career in a lead offensive player, has 18 first half points, a lot of it coming from pure aggression, aggression drives.
And he makes the biggest shot of the game, a three-pointer later. But 18 points in the first half for Stephen Castle, that is not what you normally see.
So, really. I mean, I already knew this about the Spurs. It's not like that they needed to be uh it's not like we needed to see this game to know this, but they had a twenty two year old Wembanyama, twenty one year old Castle, the two of them combined to go nineteen of thirty two for I think 50 something points. And Dylan Harper. Not only is he fearless going to the basket, like that's what we've already seen, he's fearless going to the rebounds.
Because what happened in this game was that Mitch Johnson, the Spurs coach, decided to lean into his best players and he played small in the fourth quarter of this game. He went with DeAron Fox, who made one of the biggest clutch shots of the game. He went with Harper and he went with Castle, all those three guards. And he actually had Devin Vessel out there.
So he basically had four guards and one Banyama in the fourth quarter in these vital minutes. And Harper rebounded his backside off. He had five rebounds in the fourth quarter alone. And that. Ended possessions and kept the Spurs with their head above water with that small lineup against the bigger Knicks.
So I really the takeaway was. But Victor had energy from the tip-off, and their young guys played great. They did. They sure did. And Wambon Yama on defense, I've never seen anything like it.
I mean, the guy. Uh is beating off a dribble. And it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter because he's going to close because he's so. You know, he's like an avatar that blocked on Landry Shamet.
Perfect example. Shamet's like, I got this. No, you don't. And and the number of times the Knicks If they finally get their offense. Their offensive set rolling.
Um with With more than 10 seconds left on the 24, which is rare. And they do beat the perimeter defense. Wembunyama's there. to send them back out. Or Cornette has been playing his head off, too.
And so that's the issue. Is how do the Knicks get back to what was in the first two games of this series? And there are some people who are blaming the vibe and the building. But you're saying that wasn't an issue. And then in my view, it was not ultimately an issue.
Maybe it was an issue at some point in the game, and it certainly was an issue for fans. I mean, the f it it was very the city was very disrupted yesterday, but Again, it's a one-point game going in the fourth quarter, and Trump's on his way to JFK. I mean, what do you want me to say?
Well, the. Officiating as well, Mike Brown calls it out. Overall, the Spurs took 10 more free throws than the Knicks. And the Knicks missed their first nine three-pointers in the fourth quarter. That's no bueno.
Play better than the refs ref because the Spurs with eight plus minutes to go in the quarter were already in the bonus with zero fouls called on them. Do you have any comment on the officiating last time? Yeah, so the real thing that the Knicks are going to circle is in the second half, the free throws were 24 to 8. And that's infuriated the fans. And listening to the fans post-game, this is what they were talking about.
This is what they were talking about in the concourse. I was in the concourse for a little bit after the game. And this is what they obviously were talking about on social. And certainly it became a talking point because Mike Brown came out and. You know, made it a direct part of his post-game press conference.
So, a couple of things. I think there are two things that were a factor. Number one, the game was played at very, very high physicality. This series has been played at very high physicality. When you see the replays today, which you will see in many places, of Wembanyama like shoving down Jalen Brunson in an obvious You know, non-call that, you know, Borderline could have been reviewed for a flagrant.
I don't think it would have been a flagrant, but if they reviewed it, and what I'm saying is the foul was of a nature where if it had been called, I could have seen them review it for a flagrant, and then it was not called was infuriating. But if you watch the replay 10 feet away, Carl Towns is getting manhandled by Keldon Johnson. And like you could probably isolate cameras on players on these hand-to-hand combats throughout the whole first step. By the way, both ways. The Knicks weren't as aggressive with it as the Spurs were.
The Spurs specifically looked like they were targeting Brunson, no doubt in my mind. But it was very aggressive both ways. And then, and referees were basically letting it go. To the point where, if you watch the broadcast, Mike Breen said at one point the referees might have to start calling some more fouls here. All right.
And we don't see Breen comment on officiating too much, but Breen knows the game and can feel the game. And then the reason that things got wonky here is that all of a sudden the officials started calling the game tight. And the Knicks felt that more than the Spurs did. There was only two total fouls difference in the game. And in the second half, it was 15 to 10, so a little bit bigger of a spread.
But the Knicks also fouled a couple of times at the end of the game to put the Spurs on the line. But because the Knicks fouled in these quick little spates, Um Uh There They got into the bonus. The Spurs got into the bonus very quickly. Eight minutes to go in the quarter, Brian. You know, and that, you know, that was a mistake.
The Knicks were called for three fouls in the first 65 seconds of the fourth quarter. Yeah, and I'm sitting there, obviously, with a bias. I've been straightforward about it. Um because again, it it's uh it it needed to be called both ways, and it felt as if it was not.
So what happens now between games three and four? Who talks to officials? Do officials get talked to? Like, what does happen? in between these games.
leading to a a a massive game four. A massive game for it in which the Spurs can completely flip the script and go home with a home court advantage. What a huge game Wednesday is now. I'm excited about it. True.
I think everybody is. Yeah. Yes, and Mike Brown knows all this, which is why he made a premeditated decision to come in there and talk about it. And, you know, I've known Mike Brown and covered him in playoff series now for over 20 years. And I remember vividly in 2007, he had just been a head coach for two years.
And he was coaching the Cavs, and they were playing. And one of the guys that Mike studied under, like Mike has a remarkable resume. He coached under Steve Kerr, won a championship, coached under Greg Popovich, won a championship, coached under Rick Carlisle, where they had a couple of huge seasons, including the Brawl season, where he famously is in some of the footage pulling Pacers players off the court. But one of the guys historically who was historically great at working the officials in a playoff series is Rick Carlisle.
So he was channeling Rick Carlisle. But anyway, in 2007, I specifically remember the Cavs lost in the conference finals to the Pistons. The games were close. LeBron was getting hacked. The Cavs fans thought so.
And there was this same sort of call, the call for make a comment on the officiating. And Mike Brown came out. Into the post-camp press conference after game two in Detroit, and said, We are a no-excuse team. We're not going to complain about officiating. And I remember sitting in the press conference going, wow, that's not what I expected.
But it's what his team he felt needed at that time. By the way, they won the next four games. And because his read on the situation, and you know, Mike would be the first to tell you, he's misread plenty of situations, but his read for what his team needed in that situation was. Not, you know, not to not to lean on the officiating. Does the association talk about it, though?
I mean, will under the association, like, what happens between games three and four? What the NBA would tell you is that they will go through the standard process that they go through after every game, whether there's complaints about the officiating or not. But history tells us that occasionally, not every time, but occasionally, officiating can be impacted by things like this, which is why Mike Brown did this. What is interesting to me is if you look at the quotes that came out of the Knicks players, and if you look at the The vibe that came out of the Knicks locker room based on the folks that I talked to, the players were not complaining about the officiated. Mike Brown complained about it because I think he did it for a political reason.
And so basically, is this. Maybe it works, Rich, or maybe it doesn't, but historically there have been times when it works. And game four is very important. And I think it was a strategic decision, and it could have been a smart decision. Last one for you here, Brian.
Why does the NBA not allow unlimited challenges for teams who get them right. Why would you run out of them? In a game like this, I think both teams could have. I understand you want to keep on challenging and having the game extended, and then it stops and it stops and it stops. But if you get them right, you shouldn't lose the right to continue to challenge.
Right. This doesn't help the Knicks fans' situation on this because they realized that there were two calls that Mike Brown made that had gone against them that should have been corrected. I think it's done to not slow the game down. The irony of this is Victor Wembanyama played the entire fourth quarter of this game. Obviously, it's hugely important fourth quarter.
I think he scored 10 points in it. He doesn't typically do that. He typically comes out. And by the way, in the playoffs, there have been times where Wimbinyama's come out of the game and they've gotten drilled. And this helped Victor, I think, because the reviews were built-in timeouts.
So not only were there a lot of free throws for him to rest on, but there were these effective timeouts. You know, you're only allowed to call. Four timeouts in the fourth quarter, and inside two minutes, you're only allowed to call one, and you're only allowed to call three inside. A certain number of times. And they got extra timeouts because of the reviews.
And so I think the purpose of it is to not have seven reviews in the fourth quarter of a game because you're continuing to do it. But I agree. The team is penalized for having the success. Not only that, when you call your second, when you do it the second time, you don't get your timeout back. You only get your time out back after the first one.
So it's a fair question. It's a fair thing. I mean, the NBA needs to look at three or four things. I'm not sure that's number one or number two. But certainly there was probably a moment or two that the Knicks would have liked to have had their challenge to review in the last minute or last 90 seconds last night.
I lied. Last question. This is the most important final question I can ask. Everything's fine. Everything's fine.
This is the last most important question. It's a beautiful chair. Let me just say it's a beautiful chair. I'm. I'm very happy.
I'm very happy. Richards. Where's my lunch? Put your feet on it. Bring me my lunch.
Does Stephen A. know you're in his office? No.
Now he does. No.
Now he does. In all honesty, there's a bunch of people who work out here, and the person who, you know, we were going to be doing this in the studio, but there was something wrong with the lighting, okay?
So we couldn't do it. And if we came to the outside, and there's some people who sit outside here, and we said, hey, do you think Stephen A would mind? And, like, there were three people, and they all kind of gave different looks. You know, like, one person was like, no problem. You know, he's, but the other person kind of gave a look like, so.
You know, if you see me on the You know, on the street. You'll know what happens. Understood. Brian, thanks for the time and for putting everything at risk. I greatly appreciate it.
Brian Winhorst and the Hoop Collective podcast, and of course, our favorite right here on the Rich Heisen Show. All right, let's take a break right here on the program phone calls. 844-204-Rich. Number Doll. George Kittle is up next, along with an overreaction Monday on a Tuesday.
That's next hour, but we've got to finish this one coming up. Uh The Rich Eisen Show, the podcast. As you know, managing maintenance, repair, and operations is never easy. But for the ones who always rise to the challenge, Granger has your back. From professional grade products you can count on to fast, dependable delivery, they're there to help you keep things running smoothly.
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Son finds Beckham going for extra Big Mac saws. He's got Davies at the table just behind him. Davies going for his collectible cup. Baro! A steal by Henri, who pulls his own collectible cup.
Collect one of nine legendary cups with a FIFA World Cup meal. I participating in McDonald's for a limited time. While supplies last. All rights reserved 2026 McDonald's and FIFA World Cup 2026. 44204 Rich number to dial Terzo and I will all rise.
Let's take his call. What's up, Terzo? How are you, sir? Hello, Rich. Hello.
Hello. Rich, I gotta tell you, that interview that you had with DP was absolutely phenomenal. Thank you. That brought back so many memories. Obviously, I've been listening to you for the entirety that your show has been on the air.
Obviously, I've listened to DP for throughout my entire life, so listening to you guys. Chop it up and just be yourselves. That was. Phenomenal. I really did enjoy that.
Thank you. And I got to agree with. with Wind Horse, man, it it does bring a little bit of uh uh 11 teeth of the whole entire situation, and you know, especially kind of with everything that's going on.
So that was great, great to go back down. Down that memory lane. And I got to tell you, you guys are two of the best interviewers. And I must say this: it's. You ask a question and you want to hear a good answer, and you allow for the conversation to go on.
So, kudos to you, my man. That was a great interview, and I can't wait for the rest of them. I appreciate you say that. The Berman episode's out right now. Teresa, thank you for the call.
Appreciate it. It's there's no one Iowa, there he goes, everybody. Do we have time to play this or we're out of time for the rest of this hour? Um Okay. Um Yeah, actually, no, let me let me go here.
Let's wait. We'll show the Chris Berman clip later on. Talking about the NFL draft, it's really classic. Hmm. The Uh Brendan Sourceby.
Ruling. The more I think about it the more angry I am getting. Do you see the Big Ten is reportedly thinking of telling its member schools you cannot play Texas Tech in any sport. I saw a few of the schools that already Nebraska and somebody else. And I guess what that's punishment for trying to Defang the NCAA for good?
Is that what it is? We'll talk about this with Jay Billis later on. I mean. Yeah. Texas Tech shouldn't have attempted to keep Brendan Sorsby.
Is that what they're saying? Kind of. Like your guy got caught doing something that's pretty much the worst thing you can do in sports. Right. Because it messes with the integrity of the game and you're thinking about it.
And you're just like, oh, let me find a judge who'll say he can play. You know, who said it yesterday? Was it Josh Payton? You can find a judge to say pretty much anything you want them to say. Right.
If you look hard.
So the fact that Texas Tech even attempted it should be punished. It's like, come on, man.
Well, it this sort of insanity is because there's no central Office Like, if we're going to defang the central office for good, because that's what this does. It it it again. It's basically as if if you're taking your kid's phone away as punishment. For something. Let's say your kid did something completely egregious and you're trying to discipline your child.
To teach them, you can't do this. This is something you can't do.
So we're going to take your phone away. I'm just giving an example. And then your child basically says, You are causing me irreparable harm that can't be. Overcome because if you're taking my phone away, I'm no longer able to text my friends and find out about.
Some concert that I could go to. And if I missed the concert. That's irreparable harm. Yeah, I'm an outcast. I'm now missing a concert.
It's a once-in-a-lifetime situation. I'm suddenly no longer as popular with my friends. You're causing me irreparable harm. And the answer is: these are called. Consequences for your actions.
You can't fire me for this. Let's say you're fired from your job because of your behavior. You can't fire me for this. You should actually be supporting me and trying to help me out. As opposed to giving me consequences for my actions.
It's absolutely Runs counter to what we're trying to do as parents, what we're trying to do as employees and employers or colleagues. Absolutely nuts that there's a judge saying there's irreparable harm. Because you're not supporting Brendan Sawsby's. Return from actions that are so egregious. You feel the need to punish him.
And I guess now big ten schools or What Georgia is apparently reportedly involved in this, some other SEC schools, they're just going to take matters into their own hands and say, Texas Tech, you're off our schedule. For all sports. Which isn't fair to the people who aren't gambling as part of their Sports there at Texas Tech. But this is what happens when everything goes off the rails as it has. The Rich Eisen Show Podcast.
Mm-hmm.
