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Terms at aka.ms/slash college PC. This is The Rich Eisen Show. Hey, everybody! Can't get enough of The Rich Eisen Show? You're in luck!
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Now, on with the show. Ladies and gentlemen, this is the Rich Eisen Show with guest host Susie Schuster. Susie, you're ten times better than your husband. From the Rich Eisen Show studio in Los Angeles. Today's guest, ESPN Senior NBA writer Vincent Goodwell, WWE superstar Cody Rhodes, World Cup analyst Maurice Adou, Basketball Hall of Famer Chris Weber, and now sitting in for Rich is Susie Schuster.
Well, hello everybody. Susie Schuster back from my Vegas residency as Rich Eisen makes his way back across the country. Great to be with you. Happy to be with you, TJ Jefferson. We're going to do the same thing as yesterday.
I'm going to go the opposite way to keep you on your feet. How are you, TJ? I'm great. Your Vegas residency? Were you at the spear and I didn't know this?
Yeah, two days here.
Okay. It's kind of like Shea Gildis Alexander at the line with his line residency.
So I thought maybe I would take up a Vegas one while he makes himself at home at the free throw line.
Well, how'd it go, more importantly? I mean, he was 16 or 17 from the line. I don't care about him. Talk about your residency. Yeah, I'm doing great.
Thanks so much. Spear was always corrected. Champagne is flowing. Which it's not because you didn't bring it. I know, I know.
Busy. I got a life, TJ. TJ, you're so busy. I got a life. You just couldn't get champagne.
Yeah.
Well, I never bring champagne, Chris. She brings the champagne. I bring the orange juice. That's how this works. Chris Brockman, how are you, sir?
I usually bring the champagne. Champagne, no champagne. I don't like that. I know. Yeah, I'm hanging in there.
I feel like Ron Harper Jr., Dylan Harper, with the. elbow to the neck that I Do you mean the one that he didn't get the call for in the first half, and then Jared McCain got the call a second later? That one? Hey, you know. I'm just trying to enjoy the games.
I'm just feeling like I'm just feeling a little bitter after Rich didn't win last night. We love Ernie Johnson. He's just the greatest, and what a wonderful man. But, you know, I'm kind of carrying that resentment as the wife of let some other people win. You know what I mean?
No. Nope, nope, nope. Although I do get to have the mantle of the Emmy winner. For another year or so, but let's face it, which does deserve that. Hi, Felly.
How are you? Good morning. I'm good. No, two full one. No one cares about Del Tufo and it's if he was here, he'd be saying it.
So he would be. He's part of like an 80-person team. Yeah, that doesn't count. Congrats on the group. You know what it is?
You know what? Del Tufo winning in Ebby is like a combined no-hitter. Also, doesn't count and no one cares.
So, when are we drinking? Oh, we can start any moment. I poured a double tequila. Clip this off and send it to Mike. Um guys, so sorry, Sunny.
Just kidding. On, no sleep. I'm fired up. Clear. You're really a little pissy today.
You know, I got up at three o'clock. Why? You know, just some stuff going on. What do you mean by that? Just, you know, internally.
Yeah, Lamar Jackson, D.K. Metcalf's. Right, right, right, right, right. And couldn't get back to sleep, so I'm like, I'm hot today. Great.
All right, we'll leave that stuff in. Can't wait to do a show with you. Really looking forward to it. That'd be great. Do you mind if we talk about sports now?
Sure. I'm just curious. I didn't know you asked. I was just, you know, explaining what happened. I mean, I'm a mom, but do I have to take care of him too?
All right, so, guys, on women's sports now, we talk a lot about freedom of movement, which is this new rule that came into the WNBA this year because the physicality was so great in the W that we felt that. the rest felt that they wanted to give room for the women to do as Cheryl Reeve called it, the beautiful game of basketball and to explore the studio space, if you will, to make the game of basketball free from um injuries and you know the women's game is very physical. That said, games are taking fifteen thousand hours because there's so many whistles. And I was saying on Women's Sports Now, which you can see on the ESPN app on Disney plus Hulu, ESPN News, ESPN 2, wherever you want to find women's sports.
Now, I was saying, God, you know, you can't let refs get in the way of a good game because it started to take forever, right? I hate to see an NBA playoff game. In which the next day everyone's talking about the refs. Are we really doing this again? And it just felt like another game with egregious calls.
We were just talking about this a second ago, Chris, before the show started about, and I'm going to call him Ron Harper because I can't call him Dylan Harper. By the way, when he looked angry last night, he looked just like his dad. Yeah.
And Jared McCain's taking the ball up the court. He gives Dylan Harper a nice elbow right in the neck. It wasn't a flop. This was not an acting job. No, it was a straight up elbow to the neck.
Like the the kid basically almost went to the hospital on it. And then a second later did push in the back. There goes the call. And then, like, you know, does the whole dribble stop and then backs is backs into him and then gets the call. And, you know, Harper's just like.
What do I gotta do? What do I have to do? Mitch Johnson, what does he have to do to call for uh For a long time. One of the most bogus things I've ever heard, you know, clear goaltending TJ, and then he's trying to challenge, and the referee straight up says no. Tries to call a challenge, but so egregious that if you're watching the game at home, you see the ref go right in front as he's signaling, and then also NBC had a great cutaway.
The whole team is calling for a challenge. Nope. And they don't get it.
So, you know, again, and I make the equivalence because. You want to have a physical game. Let the guys play ball. Just play on. I think Reggie Miller said last night, that should have been a play on call.
Play on. Play the game and stop letting refs get too ticky tack. Is that asking too much? Not at all. We're in the playoffs.
Can the men play the game? It Bothers me that day after day we're talking about Shea Gildas Alexander and flopping. We saw in this game Him Get a call when he went to the ground and then a minute later not get a call when he stayed on his feet. Why would he possibly stay on his feet? He's not stupid.
He is a very, very smart MVP. And oh, by the way, congratulations, the Oscars coming to you soon. Why wouldn't he continue to do as he does? That's been my calls. I saw the numbers.
I was looking at. Thank you, TJ, for bringing over the numbers because God knows I wouldn't know how to print it out. If Jared McCain and he both shoot 7 or 19 from the field, one ends up with 20, one ends up with 32, you do the math. He's taking up a Vegas residency at the line, and why shouldn't he? Champagne for free on the house afterwards.
Yeah, it's part and parcel with another Oklahoma City win is the conversation of the next day is how they play and how they get to one hundred twenty.
Now look, did San Antonio play great defense last night? No. Was Wemby pretty bad? Yeah, it seems like you know he's kind of exhausted. The games playing every other day, seemingly has cost Wemby his legs.
And, you know, it's funny. The best game of this series, we thought we were going to get an epic seven-game series where every game is like game one. While the best game, and seemingly probably will be the best game of this series, was game one. Every other game has kind of been a blowout and kind of been a ho-hum where there's other storylines, you know, that come with it, whether it's officiating rather than the result. And I think it's kind of too bad.
We thought we were going to get an epic series, and we're just not. And With Mad Dog yesterday being like, you know, I don't want to rain on the Knicks parade. I don't know if the Knicks can beat that Oklahoma City team that was playing last night. And especially if Shay is getting 17 free throws.
Well, 17 free throws, but also three pointers.
So. O K C shot forty four percent. San Antonio shot 29%. You're not going to win that way. Yeah, only made two more.
It was 14 to 12, and three pointers made, but San Antonio, 12 of 41. I mean, a lot of those misses were probably, I got to imagine, down the stretch where they're trying to shoot themselves back in the game when they're already down double digits. But it felt like 29% obviously isn't going to get it done. But correct me if I'm wrong, it felt like miss, miss, miss, miss. I mean, it really felt like they were trying to get.
Again, the game was within two after one, and then it was done. And it just it always felt like, oh, are they gonna make a run? No, they're not gonna because OKC kept hitting threes. It really felt like, look, if De'Aaron Fox was going to shoot 4 of 15 from the field, Wemby also combined 8 for 30, 0 of 9 from 3. You know, Wemby didn't make all 12 of his free throws.
But look, man, like, you can't get the ball and set up and start the offense 25 feet from the basket when you're 7.5 feet tall, TJ. I mean, I. He's getting pushed around, but you got to try to establish something down low and work inside out with this guy. You got to get him some easy buckets. Four or fifteen, not going to get it done.
Well, they played right, TJ. They played exactly the way we thought they would. They kept him out of the paint. It's the only way the only thing you can do to stop him. But let's be honest, Chris.
This is going seven. I don't know about that. Spurs are going to come back. They're going to win game six, and then we're going to have this game seven. Yeah, I don't think that's.
And also, I don't know about that. I was thinking about this. You know, everyone likes to say things are. r rigged or not on the up and up. Brockman, do you believe?
That if those people who say things like that about sports, right? And we always hear the chatter like this is a setup or this isn't on the up and up. Do you think that if a New York team, which we have, Makes it to the finals. Oh, come on. This is going to be the true test of what everyone says.
Do you think Shay's going to get those calls against the Knicks? Because if you are someone who believes in that type of talk, then you would assume that the league would really want the Knicks to win, right? No, he's going to be the best player on the floor. He's the two-time reigning MVP and the champ. Yeah, he's going to get the calls.
He's going to get the calls? It's just the way he plays. It's just the way he plays. I don't enjoy watching it. I don't enjoy watching Oklahoma City play, but they have gamed the system to their advantage the last couple of seasons and They they've kinda, you know, broke the matrix a little bit here and Kudos to them, I guess.
I don't have to sit here and say I like watching it. I think it kind of takes away from their greatness because they really do have a. They have a great run team top to bottom. You know, you see all the. All the conversations about all the drafts capital and all the assets that they have, they could trade for Giannis if they wanted to and add him to this team.
They did everything right. I saw something today. You know, they could possibly trade up and get either Cameron Boozer or Caleb Wilson. Could you imagine Caleb Wilson or Cam Boozer on this squad now? They do everything the right way, and then they go out and play basketball in a certain way that's almost disrespectful to the game and the greats that have come before them.
And it's just why? Why do you need to or feel the need to play like this? Yeah, I got some thoughts on Wemby. Before we do that, let's listen to Shea Gildis Alexander after the game, who, by the way, never looks happy, never looks satisfied with the way he plays ever. But let's take a listen to what he had to say.
I think we just learned from our mistakes. We learned from what we talked about. as a group. Um And we just applied it tonight. is the most important thing like A series, especially against a good team, is like a chess match.
Like you go back and forth with adjustments and game plans and. switching to things and trying new things. Um And I think like They obviously Punch is really good in game four. Are we uh We got better than than the team that played Game Four for Game Five.
Somewhat ironic, he calls it a chess match because we all know that Wemby is an avid chess player, right? I thought that was kind of funny. And I went back and I reread Ramona Shelburne's really great article on Wembigo in a Schaolin. And if you haven't read it, you should take a read. It's a very extensive deep dive into the time that he spent with the Chinese monks.
And you see when you when you read that article and then you watch him play, you really see him breathing his way through free throws. It talks um Ramona did a great job reporting on the time he spent It's almost like the karate kid meets the NBA. About his dribbling through fields and dribbling through forests and what have you, and going up heavily laden stone paths and what have you. She has to take himself back and figure out how Who that man is in that quiet, in that moment, because He wasn't there last night. And is it because he's tired?
Is it because it was too much? Is it because he had an off night? Because everyone has an off night, but he to have such a great night and then to have such an off night. This chess match. That she referred to Sure.
That's part of playing professional sports, but how will Wimby Respond. What will we see from him? What will be the next parts of that chess match? And that's what's so fascinating to me. Yeah, I mean, he didn't take a lot of shots.
That he snuck out the back door and didn't speak to the media is very unusual for him. He's French. He's incredibly polite. I found it kind of telling, though, when when he comes out the game, Brockman, when, um He kind of whispers to Biombo.
Well, that's the hot conspiracy this morning. And then what happens? You get. Kind of some hard fouls.
So you're saying Wemby ordered the code red? That's what you're saying? It's kind of obvious, right? I don't know. I don't know what he said to him.
Maybe he was recommending where they were going to eat post-cup. I don't want to say that Wemby was like, hey, take this guy out. You know what I mean? I don't know. It kind of looks like it, though.
Sometimes you need a little something to get a rally going, though. I mean, I'm just saying. Yeah, game's over at that point. I I look, I think I think I think the Spurs would have to be mad though, right? Like, you see these guys constantly flopping, as everyone says.
So, yeah, let's really put somebody on the butt and let them. If we're going to get the foul anyway, let's make sure it's a foul. You know, I think the series is over. I think OKC is going to win game six in San Antonio. I think there's just something about young teams have to go through the gauntlet.
We've seen it throughout the history of the NBA. And this is a really young team. Their three best players are all, you know, 22 and under. And they've got to build up some battle scars in the NBA playoffs. And this is just probably one of the chapters that'll be written in the book.
This team will be great if they stay together. They're winning titles. I fully expect them to win MVPs and titles, and that'll come. But for now, it's OKC's league, and they're the big bad bully on the block. And they put it to them the last couple of games.
And I expect to see OKC and New York in the finals in a week. Let's listen to Mitch Johnson because, by the way, If you're going to come back. For a game. Sixth the way they need to. You've got to have a fired-up head coach and.
Uh he he was he was that after the game. He's got to take more than 15 shots even with the free throws. Yeah.
He's going to have to score more than 20 points for sure. I'm sorry, is that his aggression or game plan or a combination of both? Yeah, combination of both for sure.
Okay, so you did a good job. We've got to do a better job. Um. And that's Yeah. Probably the easiest in terms of when you just surface level stuff, that he'll he'll definitely need to take more shots.
Um. But there's a lot of things all over the place where even we had advantages and we just didn't make Simple plays that take advantage of the opportunity in that possession and in this type of game. You gotta be. Sure. of everything you're doing in a very secure Mature way.
Okay, he didn't seem that fired up at that moment. But that's it. He sounded like Doc Rivers, didn't he? He sounded like he'd been screaming the entire time. Get that man of Wasange.
He's didn't he sound like Doc? When he opened his mouth, I was like, Doc? Yeah, what's he going to do now? Is the question. How is he going to get Wemby to go back to being Wemby?
Because without Wemby being Wemby, there's no Wemby. That's what I learned from. If anyone can get him more shots, it would be. coach so We'll see. He's got a.
You know, I remember Kobe, and you would know this better than me, Suze, because, you know, you cover Kobe. Didn't he have a quote one day that, like, I would rather go. you know 0 for 20, then one, like 0 for 8, or something to that effect. Like, he's not just going to take eight shots, he's going to go out blazing. And I think that's what they got to do.
They just got to keep feeding this kid and let him decide the game. He's the captain of the ship, so he's. Every single game for the whole game. Always, people would say he's too selfish. It wasn't that he was too selfish.
He believed in himself and he wanted to take those shots, but he also. I've never seen a player in my life and again I don't Pretend to be the expert of all experts in any way, shape, or form. I just know what I saw. You did see that team. You did see that team.
I saw it every single day. Every single day. You have to want the ball in your hands at the end of a game. You have to want the ball in your hands all the time. Yes.
We need assists players. We need some of the greatest I talk to Taylor about this all the time, of how important an assist is. But you know what you really want? A player who believes in shooting. And that's what Shea Gildis Alexander is, and Wemby has to be that player.
Kobe was so crazy, he would study great white shark hunting in order to learn how to stock prey on the court. Like he couldn't. He couldn't wake up until he had his kids. He couldn't breathe until he thought about how can I be better on the court. Is that who Wemby is going to be?
We don't know yet. We just said, listen, we're just getting to know him, right? It's not like he's a known entity. And so is Mitch Johnson.
So it's going to be up to him to decide how to play him. What's his chess match? What's his next move? Good thing we have another game. Tomorrow.
Let's take a break. When we come back, Vincent Goodwill joins us from ESPN. We will ask him his thoughts on the chess match that is ahead, that is Game 6. The Rich Eisen Show Podcast. Most protein drinks ask you to choose between results and taste.
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Back here on The Rich Eisen Show with Vincent Goodwell, Suzy Schuster, in for Rich Eisen. We were talking in the first segment about This chess match that has to go down. We were saying ironically that Shea used chess match, but. What is the chess match? What's the next play for Mitch Johnson regarding Wemby for Game Six?
That's a great question. And Mitch Johnson last night, he said, we need more from him. Normally, when you see that your best player is a little fatigued, a little tired, a little lethargic, you don't necessarily call him out. You will give him a little bit of grace, especially if it's his first time. Our victor is 22 years old, going through his first playoff experience.
And Mitch Johnson, he didn't call him out, but he said, we need more from him. He can't just take 15 shots. To me, that says we need more energy from you. It's not just the type of shots, the number of shots. It is, hey, we need your energy to be better.
We need you to have the desire. We need you to hunt shots and not just hunt three-pointers because he can get those because he has the height. He can stand outside from 30 feet, but it's the effect. It's planting himself down there. At this point of a playoff series, no matter if you're old or young, you get to the conference finals in this game six, everybody's tired.
It becomes a battle of wills. You're playing every other day. You've been playing every other day for the past month or month and a half, no matter how. Much time you've gotten off. And Victor Wimbinyama has never played this much basketball in consecutive days in his entire life.
I'm willing to bet. He only averaged 29 minutes a game done a regular season. In this series, Susie, he's averaging 38 minutes a game. And that just shows you the taxing demands that are going to be on him.
So when you get to a closed-out game and you're at home, yeah, you're going to have a lot more energy.
Some of your role players are going to play better. But Victor Wimbetiyama has to set the tone. And I believe he has to set the tone on defense more than offense. The offense will come. He plants himself at the rim, you throw it up high.
Only person that can touch it is God. It's just going to be him and God up there. But if you talk about defense and being able to prevent what Oklahoma City is doing, I think that's where Mitch Johnson is going to get his greatest effect from Victor Wimbetiama tomorrow night. And I think you made a really interesting point. Phil Jackson was the king of using the media to get his messages across to Shaq and Kobe.
And Clearly, watching Mitch do that last night, I was. surprised and wondering why. And obviously, we read about I wasn't there, we read about Wemmy going out the back door and not talking to the media. But what was your reaction to using that? Using that microphone to get to his player and Have we seen ver him do very much of that with Wemby?
We haven't. And that's why I'm fascinated to see what happens tomorrow. Like, when you get down to this point. All these little microsmall things can have big time effects. And also, Mitch Johnson is a young coach himself.
Like he's just a year or two into this position.
So he's learning on the job. We never think about coaches the same way we think about players, about coaches figuring out what buttons to press, about coaches figuring out, hey, my team is a little fatigued. What happens here? Oh, we're facing elimination on our home floor tomorrow night.
So I was a little surprised, but it was refreshing because a lot of times you will hear coaches lie to the media and say, no, no, Player X is okay. There's nothing wrong from him. He played just fine. No, he said, we need more. I'm refreshed.
I love that. That takes me back to my childhood. Like you said, the Phil Jacksons, the Chuck Dalys, the Pat Rileys, they would call their players out on the carpet, hold them publicly accountable so the rest of us could do that as well. What did you think about the way the refs called the game last night? Oh, that's you're leading the witness, aren't you?
You are doing that. I'm just asking a question, Vincent. I'm just so curious about what you had. to say about it. I think, thank goodness it wasn't a closer game.
I'll just say that. Like Mitch Johnson not calling the timeout or not being granted the challenge, which resulted in a technical file. Of course, there's the technicalities of it. You're supposed to call the timeout first, then call for the challenge. But we all know what the signal is when you twirl your finger and everything else like that happens.
There was a goaltend that Oklahoma City got away with. When you lose by 10 or 15 points, you're not going to be able to come away with specific officiating calls. When you lose by 10 or 15 points in a game like this, you can ask questions about the tone of how the game is called, what you can get away with in terms of physicality. And I think San Antonio was learning that because we all watch Oklahoma City and we're like, okay, how can you guys play as physical as you play on defense and nobody's allowed to touch you on the other side? That doesn't feel too great, but the champions always seem to get away with a little bit.
Bit more. They get grace from the officials. When you establish a style, and Oklahoma City has established a style over the last three years, you're going to get some gratitude, some latitude, excuse me. While the Spurs, they're new to this. The officials don't know them as well.
You're learning some names and everything else. I think usually over seven games, Susie, it kind of evens out. But there are some questionable calls last night and over the course of the series where you're wondering: is there a sliding scale of who gets away with what? Shouldn't matter. Shouldn't come down to calls, period.
Shea, bunch of turnovers, slow first quarter. Obviously, he's the MVP. He makes the adjustments, but. What did you see in him in this game? And with that in mind, how does that project how you think for the next game?
Susie, I'm going to say something that's a little bit surprising. I wasn't terribly impressed. With Shea last night. He shot seven of 19 from the field. That's usually below his usual efficiency.
He's normally a guy that shoots 52, 53% from the field. He is not having a great playoff in terms of how efficient he is. We're paying more attention to it now because they're in a hotly contested playoff series. But when you're one of these players who gets to the line a lot, You're going to have to deal with increased physicality and not getting every call. And there's been a couple of games where he's been flailing around and not getting the call and looking at the reps.
Usually, over the course of a series, that evens out. I think in game six. We're going to have to have a Shea Gildis Alexander MVP type of game. You got the New York Knicks over there getting manicures and pedicures. They're chilling for the next week or so.
You need to take care of your business so you can get some rest and not twirl around with this team, forcing it to go to a game seven where you wound up getting maybe a couple of days of rest. Maybe you get three days of rest before the finals, but that's a lot of mental and physical fatigue that the champions are going through. Remember, no champion has repeated since the 2017-18 Golden State Warriors, and that was Kevin Durant and Stephan Curry breaking the game. These Oklahoma City Thunder are not that. They need everything in their advantage, and for everything to be in their advantage, that has to be Shea Gildis Alexander playing above his playoff standard for this particular season.
Meanwhile, while they're getting their nails done, who do they want to play, the Nicks? I think you probably want to play this young San Antonio Spurs if you're the Knicks. Yes, Victor Wimbediama is a handful, and there is no matchup for him, right? But they have beaten up on the Spurs. They beat the Spurs in Las Vegas for the NBA Cup that seemed like it happened five years ago.
They gave the Spurs one of their worst losses. I think it was in March at Madison Square Garden. It was on national TV. They beat him by damn near 40. And you're looking at a team that is inexperienced getting to the finals for the first time.
You look at Oklahoma City, they're the champions. And although they're missing their second and third best scores, they have defenders up and down the roster. Like there's no one that you can pick on, like you picked on James Harden in the last round, like you can pick on Joellen Bede with the Philadelphia 76ers in round two. I think for competition purposes, a Knicks Thunder final would look great for the lore of the league and storytelling and everything else. This ain't 1999.
These Spurs would rate on a national scale. People will be very curious to see what Big Slim Victor Wimbeniama would do on his very first touch at the NBA Finals. I just think the Thunder are going to be so hard to beat in two of the next three nights. This will surprise you, Vincent. Susie Huster in for Rich Eisen right here on The Rich Eisen Show.
This will surprise you. Chris Russo was on yesterday. He had a couple takes. I know it's really surprising that Chris has an opinion, so I don't want to surprise you on that one, okay? Number one, is the East too easy?
Has this been too easy for the Knicks? That's an interesting question. I think you can look at it two ways, and I think there's something to that. For one, the Knicks are the only three seeds since the playoffs have expanded to 16 teams. That was in 1984, since we go into four rounds.
They're the only three seeds to get to the finals that did not have to beat a one or two seed to get there. Not their fault, it's just the way it laid out. And we all saw how the Cleveland Cavaliers absolutely quit after game one. That was a despicable showing from that entire team. I think.
Their coach Kenny Atkinson, he might think it's a game five tonight because of the analytics. He might be surprised when there's nobody showing up at Rocket Arena tonight, but we'll just let him figure that out on the back end. But I do think with the way that the Knicks have destroyed the Philadelphia 76ers and the Cleveland Cavaliers, yes, it speaks to their excellence, but it also begs the question, when you get to the finals, will you have a sticker shock of the altitude of, man, we haven't played a team this good at this level while these Western Conference teams are beating up on each other? They're used to the competition. I wonder if that's going to have some type of effect, at least early on, while the Knicks will be rested.
But yeah, the Eastern Conference as a whole was pretty underwhelming this playoff. Chris went on to say that he does not believe that Jalen Brunson is one of the greatest all time Knicks. He is obviously a heavy Willis Reed guy. Where do you see Jalen fitting in And then I'll ask you a follow-up. I mean, Susie, are the Knicks like this hollowed franchise that I've been watching for 50 years?
I mean, I'm not 50, but like, it seems like the Knicks have had splotches of great teams. Like, they had a Patrick Ewing era. They had an era in the 70s. They had Frazier era. They had Fraser 3.
Yeah, the Fraser era. Willis Reed and all of those guys. And they've won two championships. And I think Walt Frazier and Willis Reed are up there. Certainly, Patrick Ewing is probably the greatest Knicks of all time, even though he has no championships.
But I don't see there being this Mount Rushmore of great Knicks. They're not the Celtics. They're not the Lakers. They're not numbers, so many numbers in the rafters that you got to invent new numbers. It's like five or six up there.
So if Jalen Brunson leads this team to a title, he's Mike Greenberg said it this morning. He's Joe Namath. He's the guy who will never have to pay for a meal in New York City ever again. You can put him in that top four. You can banter with Carmelo Anthony or whomever else you want to knock off of that number four spot, but I think he's up.
There and he's earned that to get in that conversation with where the Knicks were when he signed in 2022. This was not a banner franchise, and he's been the headliner in this team, becoming a consistent contender. In a NBA that does not allow for consistent contention. I think he's going to get a lot of free drinks as it is right now. I have a feeling he'd be just fine on Seventh Avenue, walking in wherever he wants and grabbing anything he wants from the top shelf.
That said, who is this guy? He's kind of a fascinating person to break down. Obviously, he took a pay cut to have a stronger team around him, grew up around basketball. Leon Rose is his godfather. Break it down for me.
Like, how do you explain Who Jalen Brunson is and what makes him tick? That's amazing because to some degree Jalen is very Polished in a lot of ways. Like he will say the right thing, and sometimes he'll say nothing. He'll give you not necessarily a word talent, but he won't let you in. But the guys around him, that's how you wind up figuring out who Jalen Brunson is.
You watch his interactions with Josh Hart and Mikael Bridges and those players and OG Ananobi, the guys who have to protect him. It's almost like a quarterback with his offensive line. You can tell how much a team likes the quarterback by how well the offensive line protects him. Because Jalen Brunson's not a perfect superstar. He's a guy that has to have his other players around him protect him on defense and not allow him to get hunted and to allow him to take the shots and take command of the offense while not being taking it personal.
If you're his teammates and you're only getting scraps every now and again, you have to really love your leader. Guys have to really play for you and playing in New York City. It's not for everybody. Leon Rhodes can be your godfather. Rick Brunson can be your dad, but when you're out there, it's just you.
And I think there's a calmness to him. There's a fire to him. There's this underdog mentality or second-round pick. The Dallas Mavericks didn't want to re-up him at the money that they re-upped him at, so he wanted to go into New York. Like, there's a lot of things that make him him, but I think he's built for the pressure of New York.
He's built for the Knicks franchise. And like you said, he took the pay cut. $100 million pay cut that he could have signed for more. I want to know what his financial advisor say to him when he came to him and said, Hey, brother, say, we're going to take a haircut here. But I just think it speaks to the competitive character and the fact that he's a winner.
Is he a champion? We're going to find out. Yeah, that's not a haircut. That is like a Rapunzel-like. Chop, right?
That is like some serious locks falling from a castle. I I'm surprised, or I'm not surprised. I'm enjoying watching the chemistry of some of these young guys, the Villanova III, watching the personality of these players from the Knicks. And they are, you know, everyone loves to talk about are they loose? They're very loose.
And you're right, they're sitting back and watching. I'm enjoying watching Josh Hart. I covered him when he was a baby, when he was with the Lakers for 15 minutes. and just watching him grow into who he is. You start to like, if you've been covering the NBA long enough, you look for the tea leaves, right?
You look for like signs that a team has, you know, it's you know what together. And there is that feeling that the Knicks have it. There's that playing in the garden. There's that us against the world mentality. This is not about history.
This is just about feelings. My feeling watching this, especially, and I do think that, I mean, look. OKC's OKC for a reason, Shay's the MVP for a reason, but you start to smell something in the wind. And there's something about that that I'm getting from the Knicks. I'm curious about what you're getting as we look at the finals, knowing that the West is still at play.
When I'm walking through Manhattan and I'm smelling something, I don't think it's roses and the NBA finals. It feels like the incinerator. Or if you're on Central Park South, you know what that is. It's got to be the carriages. Yeah, it ain't nothing great, right?
But I tend to agree with you that, like, you look at them and you say they're playing over their heads right now, and the competition isn't great. But you're playing over your head for a reason because you're taking this with the appropriate approach. And they look like a team that's playing better than anybody. It's not about what you do throughout the 82-game season, although that's very important. It's who's playing the best at the right time and who's healthier.
And that's what the Knicks are. And if nothing else, this run of winning games by 18 points a night, it breeds more confidence. And it breeds that, hey, if we continue to do the right things, defense, rebounding, shutting ball, all the basic tenets that your fifth grade coach tells you about, they're doing it at such a high level. You don't want to be the guy that breaks the chain. You don't want to be the guy that takes the bad shot.
You don't want to be the guy that lets his man go by him on defense, and all of a sudden, someone else has to take the hit for that.
So, there's an accountability that even goes beyond the coaching staff. There's an accountability I feel like that goes from the locker room to the players, it extends. And those are the things that create a championship thread. I would not be surprised. I think if you take me back to the start of the playoffs, I would have been surprised if I said, Hey, the Knicks are going to win the championship.
But with the way that they've played, their expectation internally should be to win the championship no matter who comes out of the Western Conference. Who wins game six? I tend to think that Oklahoma City is done playing with their food. And not that the Spurs are food, because the Spurs have hit their number this year. But, Susie, I tend to believe that.
In every playoff series, there's a point in a series where both teams know who the best team is. Both teams know who's going to win the series, and the series begins to take shape and play out that way. And I wonder if that moment was in game five when San Antonio made a run and they could not get it closer than five or six. And Oklahoma City kept pulling away because, you know, Jared McCain hit some shots, and Shea kept getting to the line, and Chet Holmgren had his moments. I wonder if Oklahoma City just has more answers than the San Antonio Spurs do right now.
And if the Spurs are just tired, these are so many young guys that have not played this much basketball at this high of a level every other day. You've got to have some heartbreak. You've got to have some atrophy. They're going to have some scars. And I wonder if that first big scar is tomorrow night losing on their home floor.
But I wouldn't be surprised if it goes seven either. Vincent, you're the best. Thanks for making making the time for us. Appreciate it. Hey, thank you again.
See you brilliant. I think he's so good. I love him. I think he's great. And he's got personality.
It's nice to talk to somebody with the NBA who's actually like having fun doing it at the same time. Right? It is supposed to be fun, right, TJ? Why else are we doing this if you're not having fun? And then there's Avenue.
And then there's Crankopotamus over here. Hey! What's wrong with you? Oven. You're so cranky today.
I just, you know I d as a Celtics fan, I don't want the Knicks to win. And as a basketball fan, I can't stand watching Oklahoma City.
So I need San Antonio to get their S together and like let's play ball and win this thing. Yeah, I know. I don't want to see I'd love to see it go seven games. You know what's frustrating? When we sat here yesterday, When we sat here yesterday, We felt like we had some momentum.
Now, we, as an, I'm not a Spurs fan. I'm just kind of fastball down the middle on this. Feels like it's over now. Kind of a bummer last night. Yeah.
Not wrong. What do you think, teach? Seven games. They'd lost a close game. I I'd feel a little bit more confident, but I don't.
No, you're just cranky. I haven't slept. I know. I'm sorry. That's okay.
Pepto Bismo in the back. Thank you. Let's take a break. Lots more ahead on the Rich Eisen show. Pepto Bismo in the bathroom.
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Back here talking to 844-204-Rich is the number to dial talking about refs 844-204-Rich. Talking about refs, what's your take on refs? Also, win-loss game. Let's go. We got the win-loss game.
I've got it in front of me. Yesterday, I didn't screw up, maybe once. I think I did maybe once, but I get too grippy to actually record what's actually happening, so TJ has to do that. Let's take a call, please. Can we go to Ed in Long Beach?
Hey, Ed, how are you doing? Hey, Susie, how are you doing? Hey, guys. How you doing, guys? How are you?
Good. Second time calling. I'm a longtime watcher. But I also called a while back and I owe Rich an apology. I'll call back one of these days and tell him I I questioned his integrity on something a while back.
I don't know if you remember, Chris. I I'm a Northeastern alumni, hockey alumni. That's a long time ago to call. I don't know if you remember. Anyway.
Wait, hold on. You can't just go on. How did you question his integrity?
Now I'm curious. Oh, it was about uh he was because he's a he he um what was it about? Oh, 'cause I don't remember what it was, 'cause I'm a Celtics fan of Chris, and it was when all the media was coming down on us back in 2024 when they were saying how it was soft and it was hurt, and we had it hurt people too, so did poor Zinga, you know, and he he was questioned a little bit, but he's always had integrity, and I and I apologize for it, 'cause he he really didn't say anything bad about it. It was just kinda like Throwing him in the bunch with the rest of the media. And he was just pissed because the Celtics were winning.
Don't worry about it. Yeah, everyone wearing green tags. Yeah, everyone said we had an easy piss. My question, my take on, I heard you guys earlier we started off. You know, I know like like life, it evolves, so there's sports, you know, and it's starting to evolve into something I don't like anymore.
I mean, it's like Hard to be a die-hard fan anymore because you don't know what's going to happen to Kenyaki, these referees. You know, I mean, when I was a little kid, You know, I had one referee in hockey and in basketball we had two.
Now we have three more sets of eyes, and how does it get worse? You know? It it makes you wonder. It's just and then you got dairy farmers and PE teachers and then football. I mean, it's just it's just the game's just, you know, I don't know.
It's just Stale for me now. It's hard to be a die-hard fan anymore. And I just wanted your guys' take on what you think about all that stuff, you know, with this extra set of eyes. I mean, what what what the the evolving of the game, the flopping. You know, Brian, I used to think he was worse than Save, but Save's worse than him now.
Yeah, I totally agree. You know, I take on that part, what I had to say about it, because You know, I I'm I'm dicey on it, man, I'm fishy about the whole Game because of the betting now and the way it's evolved.
So, what's your guys? What do you guys think? Thank you very much for calling in. Great call. Number one, I don't think it's rigged.
Number two, I don't think there's anything to do with gambling, what have you right now? I mean, we have seen gambling issues before with refs in the past. I don't think that's what's happening right now. But when Mitch Johnson calls for a challenge in front of a ref in the T V. Screen shows that the ref is right in front of him.
He passes him by, and he's doing the casual wave, then he goes crazy. And then he gets teed up. Teed up. For what? After because they miss a goaltend.
How can it team up? Five-point swing. How can it team up? It's crazy. Correct?
Crazy. Correct. Absurd. Crazy. I I get Ed's point though, right?
Like, I don't believe like you. I I know what I said earlier about like we'll see if the league will Give the Knicks calls at home. But I get it, man. I watch a lot of like, when I'm bored, I'll just pull up old. Old wrestling matches, old basketball games.
And I was watching something the other day, and it was a fight between Daryl Dawkins and Marcus Johnson. Or Maurice Lucas, my fault. And I mean, these guys full-on, Chris, squaring up, throwing bombs, blood on the court. And then I don't think either one of them got suspended one game. They got fined a little bit and then they played the next game.
So, yeah, if you're an old school person, if you like the way the games used to be, the physicality, Rich was talking about Wemby getting beat up. And I was like, that's not getting beat up. Like, Shaq got beat up. I get it. I get why you would be a little bit off or put off a little bit.
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