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Now. On with the show. You're out! There is confusion on the field. Sal Freelick took away a grand slam.
The Rich Eisen Show with guest host Tom Pellisero. Earlier on the show. Three-time Super Bowl champion Mark Schlerin. Tenure NFL veteran defensive tackle Malik Jackson. Coming up.
Writer and director Ron Shelton. ESPN NFL analyst. Chase Daniel. And now, sitting in for Rich, it's Tom Pellicero. Welcome back to the Rich Eisen Show, everybody.
Disney Plus, ESPN, the app, and ESPN Radio. presented by Progressive Insurance. This man's been on the show multiple times before. You can see there's the Durham Bulls cap signed by Kevin Costner and this man. who wrote and directed it and is the inspiration for Bull Durham, ladies and gentlemen.
Here to promote for the first time Bull Durham the musical. Oh, yeah. Hey, hey, hey, hey.
Well, I'm not going to sing and dance for you. But I've known you for a long time. It's a pleasure to be able to say that. And you have been, to use the Goodfellas phrase, cultivating this caper for quite some time, right? Bull Durham the musical, and it's finally now happening, Ron?
It's at a longer development. You know, th that normal although all musicals take forever. Uh I'm wondering why because you You can only rehearse them every six months, really, because you have to pay 40 people to come in and sing and dance, and then you spend the next six months fixing it, and then you bring them back. Uh Yeah, we we we were fully financed about eight, seven years ago, ready to go a theater. And two tragedies happened.
One was our principal financing producer. who has seven tonies. and was a minority owner of the Cincinnati Reds. He was the perfect guy. Had a heart attack and died.
And then we put him as we've replaced tried to replace him, who was irreplaceable, the pandemic hit. And everything shut down. We had to give all the money back to the investors and start all over. And here we are, and it's finally starting to run through Sunday, November 2nd, at the Paper Mill Playhouse in Milburn, New Jersey. And then, so this is now, this is off Broadway, to say the least.
I mean, the idea would be for this to catch a little bit of fire and go.
Well, catch a lot of fire is the goal. I mean, we've got Tony winners everywhere and Tony nominees everywhere, you know, and the director, and the cast, and the choreographer, and I mean, it's a big time show, and. The Milburn, you know, if triple-A in baseball is a phone call away, this is like 4A. I love it. Sure.
It is people use it for shows right off of Broadway after they've closed or as the the jumping off for Broadway, and that's where we hope we are. That's where you hope you are. And okay, let's just jump into it.
So which scenes from the film Are now set to music that we would be interested in.
Well, there's a lot of lines from the script that turn out to turn into songs. I mean, you may remember when Forget a new Kalush. Is Bing. tutored by Annie in one way and thrashed by another. It finally dawns on him.
He says, You know, I figured it out. Winning is better than losing. And winning is better than losing is a huge showstopping number with bats flying and it's pretty great. Another time, you know, uh there's another line, um Every woman d deserves to wear white. That's the big woman empowerment number.
Yes. Um There's a few scenes that a few you know, there's some Earthy language, maybe not quite as earthy as the movie. And there's no bathtub scene, sorry, folks, but you know. Is lollygag in the ball? Oh, there's a ballot.
Oh, lollygag. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. We lollygag, we fight, we curse. Yeah, it's a very spirited, very physical. Um You know, highly entertaining, and we think funny show, and so do audiences.
So I think everybody could use a laugh right now and uh And and this this appeals across the board, like the movie did. You know, you didn't know if that movie was Polarized. No, this just brings us all together. Sure. And two-time Tony nominee Carmen Cusack is Annie Savoy in this.
Fantastic. Fantastic. And Nick Walker is Crash Davis. Yeah, by the way, he was in Hamilton. He's now the lead in the Phantom Reboot.
In fact, he was going from rehearsal to the lead in Crash Davis and Phantom every day, but he's now. When we s now he's done with Phantom, but um Yeah, we have a discovery for nuke and just um I don't know. I really. We ran it a few years ago in Atlanta. This is a much, much further advanced version with a new director and a new cast.
But it was the. And we brought The Atlanta Braves came to see it, and the Gwinnett Braves, the AAA team, was right there. Sure. And the manager of Gwinnett was Snitker. who was before he got his shot in the big leagues.
And so he brought he and the coaches said, This is the first musical we've ever been to that we like as much as our wife 'cause you know, the women drive the g drive the guys to the musical and they go to serve your lady and And you pretend you like it. Actually, I think this is for everybody.
Well, you've always had strong female leads in in every single thing that you've done, Ron. Like that's and that that's sort of like your secret sauce is you write very strong female characters and otherwise One would think pop culture, iconic stuff that is for men, but not really. Like you kind of. You kind of hide that thing. Really well.
You have that hidden ball trick in everything that you do.
Well, it's not very hidden, really. Right, I know. I mean, Andy Savoy tells the story in Bulldurham. Right. I mean, who's the most successful person at the end of White Making a Jump?
Rosie Perez. And, you know, it's Renee Russo's character, Dr. Molly. A shrink in West Texas. It's a tough gig.
And she's the one that explains to Roy McAvoy, Kevin Coster, what you just went through because he can't figure it out. Um Yeah, I g I g I I think that Yeah, you know. The men become clearer if the women are stronger, and vice versa. Bron Shelton here on The Rich Eisen Show.
So Bull Durham making it. Um, Walk me through who is first attached. to that when you first started Coming up with the idea of Bull Durham and then getting it off the ground. Whoever was. I got Kevin.
I got Kevin before. Um People quite knew who he was, but we knew people were going to quickly find out. Uh and while we were trying to get it financed, um the Untouchables came out. And then No Way Out came out. And that green lit the movie because No Way Out Greenlit Bull Durham.
Because the New York Times said Kevin Coster is a movie star. And um And 30 days later, we were in pre-production, and we shot it almost immediately. No kidding. Yeah, much quicker than today. You can't pull that stuff off today.
It's too bureaucratic. But casting Susan Sarandon, I know, was definitely. Yeah. To do, correct? Like she wasn't immediately greenlit for that.
The studio, for some crazy reason, didn't approve of her. And then she flew on her own all the way from Italy with her two-year-old daughter, Eva. to audition with the Wonder Brothers lot. Um, so her agent called, and I said, She's not approved.
Well, she's going to be there tomorrow afternoon. I said, Well, I'll meet her. And I brought Kevin in and she was great. And then we called the studio. And said, Susan's, we like Susan, can you put her on the list?
And the studio head, who's become a friend of mine, said, You know, she just came in the other day. I saw her and she looks great. Yeah, we'll approve her.
Well, she didn't come in the other day. She went right from the audition to the hallway of the studio, looking like a thousand million bucks. Walked up and down the hallway, she was in, and she found Mike, met a voice, office, Mike, how are you? And then he called and say, Hey, I saw her a few weeks ago. No, you saw her five minutes ago.
And so I, you know, that was. It was a a willful act by her, which she was great, obviously. But the first choice For Nuke was Charlie Sheen. Is that right? Yeah.
Okay. Who really is a good pitcher? Right. I mean, we all remember him from Major League, but that was the first time. But that was after.
That was led. That was later.
So Charlie Sheen was originally. How did Tim Robbins get that gig then?
Well, Charlie. It turned it down. And he still talks about this. Because he was Sort of committed to Eight Men Out, the Black Sox guy. It's a great movie.
John Sales directed movie. What the same studio was making that same summer. Nobody would make a baseball movie and Orion made two at the same time.
So it was the same. Studio that was making Bull Durham was making Eight Men Out about the Black Sox scandal.
Now, so Charlie could have got out of that because Nuke was a bigger part. Yeah, right. But he didn't. And um And now he's got his book out and his documentary out. And he said he's still, his wild ride continues.
But so Tim Robbins showed up on your radar screen how then? No, he just came into an audition with 47 other people and he was this big hulking guy and he had this sweet face. And he was awkward. And, you know, I knew he wouldn't pitch as well as Charlie, but he otherwise was the character, and that's how he got it. But Charlie could have got it.
So t so then you you got Costner was the guy that helped you green light it because No Way Out was such a hit. Susan Sarandon basically got herself the role by showing up and just being Susan Sarandon and looking like Susan Sarandon and acting like Susan Sarandon. And Tim Robbins gets the gig because Charlie Sheen didn't get out of eight men out, and he just showed up, and you're like, that snook. I didn't right away because. He didn't tell me he w he was he was lying, which Within industry standards.
And he was lying. Right. And his agents were lying. They say he's never been in a movie, he's a discovery, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Well, he'd been in the lead in Howard the Duck, which was the biggest bomb in the history of Hollywood. But I didn't see it. Nobody saw it. Nobody knew he was in it. Um He was great, though.
And he also was, you know, he's six foot five. Right. And most of the guys reading for Nuke look like younger versions of Kevin. And if you're the woman, You're going to not choose the younger version of Kevin. You're going to choose the mature 35-year-old version of Kevin.
I wanted somebody who was very different than Kevin, and that was Tim. What what what's your I'll screw it. I know you're probably going to say it's tough to decide, but what's your favorite line of that movie? You're proud. Here we are, all these years later, like that.
I stuck to landing on that one based on my own experiences or anything like that, Ron.
Well Not counting the rose goes in the front, big guy. When Kevin is telling Tim, when Crash is telling Nuke. giving his last instructions before the big leagues. He says You know, they're going to light you up, don't worry about it. You're going to, you know, he says.
This game is played with fear and arrogance. And of course Newt says fear and ignorance of not, you know, but fear and Fear and arrogance is probably the closest to what I believe of any line I've ever written. Meaning If we don't all acknowledge that we're afraid and don't know what we're doing. We're lying. Or we're not honest.
And you're not fully human if you aren't arrogant enough to say. Look at me, I'm here, I'm going to do it.
So it's the acknowledgement of both. I think that makes greatness. Did you realize that when you were playing? Like, when did that dawn on you, fear and arrogance? When did that hit you?
Well, I think if you're an athlete and you're making a living as an athlete, you know right away that everybody you're competing against is the best in their high school, the best in their college, whatever. And They're all playing with a bit of fear and a lot of arrogance. And that we're all equal that way, just some guys have better fastballs. And um But most Baseball players, most athlete, uh maybe not in football or Well, maybe the you know, there's a handful of guys in any sport. That can do things that nobody else could do.
Nobody else could run like Barry Sanders, can do the things that Mahomes can do, or whatever. There's those guys. Sure. Oh, Tani. Another example.
lineman for the Rams that just Aaron Donald, those guys. Everybody else, there's a sort of similar, really better than almost anybody else, but it's these guys that. Succeed. It's the smarter versions. that figure out how to apply the same 6-2 2400.
Then the other guy who runs the same 60 dime and has the same, you know.
So it becomes a mental game at a certain place.
Well, isn't that what what's the line about golf? The most important five inches or whatever, something like that, or are the ones between your temples, right? You know what I mean? And uh obviously we we all know that from obviously Tin Cup's another example of that. Yeah, there's th that the um I've got a movie in the spring About based on a book, it was written 40 years ago.
It's about Ted Williams when he was 70. He was the fly fishing king of. Keys and a writer goes down to interview him without being invited. And Ted hated writers, and it's about these two guys. And I've got two Great actors to play each one, Ted at 70 and the writer.
And this This is the spring movie, we we believe. And I interview a lot of guys who knew Ted and played for Ted when he managed. We forgot he managed about eight years after playing. And they said they were all in spring training and he was showing up. And they were terrified of Ted Williams.
Because of his reputation. Sure. Although he was not. The guy. The book shows.
Players loved him, coaches loved him. Everybody loved him except the Boston press. And he And every player said, He said, You guys are all in the big leagues for a reason. I'm not going to mess your stance. I'm not going to tell you how to hold the batter, where to stand.
You figured that out to get here. All I'm going to talk about is this. Mm-hmm. The middle approach. And the team average went up 35 points that year.
Mm. And he was manager of the year. Just talking about this. One of my first iteration with ESPN, the seven years that I was there, being the voice of Major League Baseball on ESPN radio, and then Sports Center would be sending me to the World Series. where I met Charlie Sheen, by the way, or the all-star game.
Where I was for Fenway Park, you know, in 1999 for the all-century team, Kevin Costner was the one who introduced all the players and they came out. And the current all-stars lined up from home plate to third base, home plate to first base, and then the all-century team lined up. I'm getting goosebumps, just even remembering it, Ron, from first to second and second to third. And it was just this constellation of all-time greats, current. Former, and then Ted Williams came out and threw the first pitch, if you remember.
And Maguire told me, because he went up to Ted Williams. And they had a conversation. And I asked Maguire, what did Ted Williams say to you, And he said Williams asked him that when you hit one right on the screws. Do you smell the wood burning from your bat? is what he asked him.
And Maguire says, I told me I do. That the baseball, the horse hide, and the strings, when it hits the wood in a certain way, it would. like light somewhat of some smoke. You know, and I thought, I'm like, this is just next level. Like, that's that's not mortals talking.
Yeah. You know what I mean? The only time that happened to me is when the clubhouse opened up fire. Oh, yeah, yeah. It's a great moment, and Ted came out.
Never forget it. It was like those guys were nothing, and Ted was the guy. Right in the middle. I mean, and you know, and Gwynn and Griffey Jr. kind of held him up as he threw the pitch to Fistkin.
I was right behind home plate. Clearly, I'm not going to approach this. I'm leaving these folks to themselves here. I will never forget it. I will never forget that night.
It is truly one of the greatest nights of my entire life and career. Unbelievable standing on that turf. And he died three years later. Yeah. Uh before I let you go, um what's your favorite sports movie?
Ron, I've never asked you this. I've never asked you this when we were a couple fingers into a drink. Or in your previous appearances here, I can't believe it. But what is your favorite sports movie? The hustler.
You consider that a sports movie? Yeah. Okay, then why? Why is it a sports movie? It's competition.
Okay. Um It is about everything that we're talking about in these other sports, the head game. It happened to star Paul Newman, Jackie Gleason, and George C. Scott, and I forgot the woman, she's all-time great. The great director, great and I just I think it's about it's so contemporary.
even though it was made 60 years ago in the black and white movie. And I think it's everything that sports is. Piper Laurie was Piper Laurie was fantastic.
So that's my favorite one. I like. Other Odd ones that nobody can remember. There were some great British ones, but I I can't talk about sports movies because I started making them 'cause I was so hypercritical of other ones. That I don't want to come out like being a curmudgeon.
So do you consider Raging Bull a sports movie? Yeah, it is a sports movie 'cause it's about a guy I mean for me Raging Bull Is the best movie about a boring guy ever made because I don't think. Do you think Lamotte is boring to you? He is a boring guy. I mean, he beat his wife.
He couldn't help him. He's brilliantly portrayed. Night. And it's a very watchable movie. Sure.
But LaMada, is LaMada the subject of the movie? Maybe.
Well, he is there. Um is rocky as sports moving. It's a fairy tale, fortunately. We've had Stallone and Carl Weathers, may rest in peace on, and they both thought a love story would be a way to describe it. That's fair.
But obviously, it's about boxing. It's about sports.
Well, Durham's a love story. I mean,. Um Yeah, what other?
Well, there's a lot of great boxing movies. Sure. I'm just trying to throw some other ones your way. Do you like Hoosiers? Yes and no.
It was really well made. I admire it. It was, and Hackman was great. Oh, and Hackman helped green light Bull Durham in a way because he was in no way out. You know, with costs.
So that scene in the back of the limo really helped too. Yeah. Let's give Sean Young some credit. Says we're on Shelton, everybody.
Okay. All right. Um and did you like so then just to bring it all full circle, did you like color of money? Which was the technical sequel to Oscar. It got Newman his Oscar finally, which was not.
He should have got his Oscar for the verdict. Yeah. Oh, what a great movie that is, Ron. Ron, that is a great. I agree.
Great movie. You know, Jack Warden is in that as well. Um Oh, gosh. I just saw it again. It holds up.
It does. I just saw it a couple years ago, too. where he plays a drunk lawyer down and out and he gets the case of his life. James Mason plays the opposing attorney. I think Sidney Lehmet directed it.
And I think David Mamet wrote it. Yes. Mammet and Sidney. David Mammet wrote it. Yeah, it's a great movie.
That's my favorite Paul Newman movie. The color of money is the single single. It's almost kind of a lifetime achievement, Oscar. Right. He also is great in Cool Hill Luke, but Newman, but Cool Head Luke is a really good movie.
But you don't. Yeah. They don't give Oscars if if it's funny. You notice. Tutsik was better than Gandhi.
that year. Correct. By far. Yeah. But they never come Oscar time, the funny the funny people don't win.
Well, come Tony time. Let's get it done. What do you think? That's right. Let's go.
Don't be wrong. You can see it from here. Again, go ahead and find it at papermill.org for tickets. through November 2nd, the Bull Durham, the musical. And they're selling me, by the way.
The tickets are really selling. Let's go. Let's go, man. Let's get it done, man. And because I've known you've been really wanting this to.
materialize happened for years and I couldn't be happier for you and Always love having you on here, man. You're the man. Likewise. That is Ron Shelton, everybody. Papermill.org to go see Bull Durham and Musical right here on the Rich Isaac Show.
The Rich Eisen Show Podcast. As many of you know, supporting pediatric cancer research is something I care deeply about. That's why I'm proud to share what Hyundai is doing through Hyundai Hope on Wheels. For over 27 years, with every Hyundai sold, they've helped fund pediatric cancer research. Alongside over 850 dealers, they've raised more than $277 million, helping over 25,000 kids and supporting more than 1,400 research grants at 175 institutions nationwide.
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Visit HyundaiUSA.com and search Hyundai Hope on Wheels to learn more. Back to the Rich Eisen Show, Disney Plus, the ESPN app and ESPN presented by Progressive Insurance. Chase Daniels should be along joining us shortly here. I did not get the opportunity to flip over to baseball last night. I did catch, though, this morning, Chris, the.
One of the stranger plays I can remember seeing first 8-6-2 double play in MLB. postseason history that The curious quote Was the Dodgers manager saying after the game, like, oh, it was a brain fart running the bases? I don't know.
Well, no, not really. I think anyone.
Somebody called it, quote, brain fart. Brain fart. I know, but I would have been equally as confused. It was bases as anyone else. Bizarre plays, bases loaded, bomb to center field.
Brewer's outfill there goes up. He's trying to make a catch at the wall. It goes off his glove, off the top of the wall. Then it comes back into play, and he catches it. And everyone's just kind of standing around because I think the runners thought, oh, he caught it.
Oh, it hit the wall. The wall's in play. It's a live ball. Throws it. Shortstop.
Home. Horse out at home, the catcher runs all the way to third. Double play. It's one of the most bizarre, confusing, interesting plays we've ever seen. It's got to be the only 8-6-2-2 unassisted double play in Major League history.
There was apparently another one, a Sammy Sosa fly ball, but it was a tag out at the plate. Oh, okay.
So someone wasn't exactly burning it up down the third baseline in that particular instance. Yeah, this one, I understand why all the runners were just kind of standing around confusing because it was bizarre to watch. It was bizarre when it happened live. And I was still talking about it hours later with my baseball friends. And.
Man, but still, you know, Dodger's bullpen makes it interesting. Not sure why you took Blake Snell out of the game, story of his career. He was cruising, but Dodger's able to get it. And then you go on the American League side. The Blue Jays TJ has been a wagon for months.
Is TJ a Blue Jays fan? No, but I know he's a baseball fan.
Okay, no, I thought you were throwing it at him. He's seen Bull Durham. I mean, he's seen him in Bull Durham. He just threw darts at the wall. He's got the Cowboys.
He's got the Sixers. I never know where we're falling. There's a story behind all of them, you jerks. I'm aware. I've heard the story.
Jay, don't call me a jerk. I wasn't going to bring that up.
Well, but at some point you would have. No, I'm above that now. They've just been beasting through everybody in the American League to run out the rest of the season. They looked kind of like on a World Series collision course with the Dodgers. And then Seattle, this team of destiny.
Takes both games on the road yesterday, hitting a bajillion home runs. Oh man, crazy. Crazy. We're guaranteed a World Series matchup we've never had before, which I think is pretty awesome. Kind of goes back to a couple of years ago, I've said before, when it was Diamondbacks Rangers a matchup we've never seen before.
I think it's fun, it's interesting, and you know, I would expect Toronto to get back in it, higher register. But man, man, oh man. What would be your preferred World Series matchup, TJ? The Mets against anybody. Ah!
Not, I mean, one that's alive, most able to be a preferred option of what's currently available to you with the bats. Of course, how could I forget that the you weren't specific enough, all right? Uh, look, look, I live here if I got and so the Dodgers, right? Even though Otani is what is going on with Otani right now, was he one for 20, his last 21 at bats? But of course, you know.
I'm not an LA fan when it comes to the Lakers, that's for sure. But when it comes to baseball, I'll put my fandom behind the Dodgers for my grandson.
So do I, TJ, and hopefully they'll win. Shut up. Dodgers, just to recap. Dodgers met Clippers. Let's say it was a Sixers.
You asked me who I was and then Cowboy gave it to you. And now you're going to put them on. No, I am just asking you there really. No, I don't care. Yeah, TJ.
Climb aboard the Dodgers. Drop the Dodgers up there. I don't care the hornet test. Yeah. The kids still have pennants.
No, which is such a bummer. I loved penance. When was the last time you saw a pennant? Oh, I have one over here. In a store.
I mean, in a store. Oh. Do they sell penance? That's a good question. I don't even know why.
They got it, right? Not everyone I knew. Growing up in the 80s, like everybody had penance. Had pennants on walls. And I would think, Deltufo, I mean, I'm an old guy.
What you do is you're slightly older than me. Yes. But you were also in the penance generation. One of the biggest things I did as a kid is my brother had a. Miami Dolphins bet it from their undefeated season, and I drew on it.
Which was like, yeah, I got a lot of stuff. Did you get even with him? Yeah. Something happened when we were kids. What was it?
I don't know what, but I drew like a smiley face right on it. Yeah, it didn't end well for me. Yeah, you can tell if it's on Amazon. You can get pennants. Amazon.
It's kind of funny. But I feel like you used to be able to walk into a store and there would just be pennants. Like every gift shop in a hotel. They're almost like a girl. You got to go with sporting goods.
Here's a question, though. And you have it, well, you have daughters, so I don't know what they have on their walls, but like, do kids still put posters on the wall? Yes, there's still posters. Like, because remember when we were younger, man, that was big. And we had some of the great posters.
Ash Brothers and George Gervin with the Ice Man, Barr Fawcett.
Well, that too. I was speaking sports, Jackson. I had three Jordan posters and eventually a Shaq poster. Yeah. Those were the four big ones in my room.
The Timberwolves started playing when I was eight, and I lived in Minnesota, but like, you weren't going to go and get a Gerald Glass poster. You know, like, those were not necessarily available. Kelly Bunny poster.
So you grew up in Minnesota? I grew up in Minneapolis, outside Minneapolis. You died in Minnesota. You remember when Doug West played for the Timberwolves? Oh, yeah.
I met Doug West in Jerry's grocery store one time and got his autograph on a newspaper. Doug West, Altuna Legend. Doug West was a third cousin. He was one of the early star players. Number five.
He had the bowl haircut that I thought was cool. It wasn't all rust on me. But I wanted that haircut. Yeah, Doug, he was high school. He was like.
When he was in, I know this is a quick story.
Now, Tuna, when he was in high school, I was in like fourth grade, but I can remember. The field house where they played high school was packed, like standing room only when he was in high school. He was just, we had never, in our area, we had never seen anyone play basketball like him. And we had a guy go to the NBA before him, but Doug, he was special. He was like a 6'5, 6'6 shooting guard.
He was like a very poor man to Michael Jordan. Yeah. But he was a good player. And if memory serves correctly, Brockman, you can double-check me on this. I believe he was traded to the, at the time, Vancouver Grizzlies in a deal for Anthony Peeler.
Yeah, ending up being part of a couple of Timber Wars. There were two seasons for the playoff team. Yes, I distinctly remember being like, that's Doug West, my favorite player. And I'm like 10 years old. That's wild.
I'm like, I have nothing to get an autograph on. And so, whatever, my mom or dad, whoever was with me, bought a newspaper. And so somewhere, I'm sure I still have a Doug West in pen on a newspaper that has all kinds of other words. You can't even tell. There's just like, it looks like, it looks like Del Tufo got angry at his brother and scribbled over a very important newspaper story.
By the way, you're right. Was traded for Anthony. Wow. There you go. All right.
Chase Daniels is going to join us right on the other side of this break. Stick around, breaking down what we saw last night. What, if anything, is going on with Josh Allen? A lot more with Chase after this. The Rich Eisen Show, the podcast.
Welcome back to the Rich Eisen Show. Tom Pellisero in for Rich on Disney Plus, the ESPN app, and of course, ESPN Radio. Presented by Progressive Insurance. Progressive Commercial Insurance protects small businesses for affordable coverage options. Quote today at progressivecommercial.com.
Our next guest spent a long time in the NFL, one of the best analysts you are going to find on social media and elsewhere. Also, an analyst for ESPN, going to be calling games, I'm told, seven nights a week now. They're actually having him do a different game every single night. Chase Daniel is with us, Chase. Yeah, look at that.
Look at the welcome from the boys in studio right here. I'm not going to ask you to break down FIU, any conference USA action today, but let's start out with something. I saw you posted on social media earlier today saying I really don't get the discourse. Regarding Josh Allen, I now give you the floor. You've got more than 280 characters on this show, sir.
Tell me what it is you're seeing that people are getting wrong. about Josh Allen, particularly last night when that wasn't anybody's best for Buffalo. Yeah, look, I just think in general, Buffalo, the last two games have not been playing well. But here's my thing: like, do we really think come January that Josh Allen, who is the MVP, and that room with James Cook and Joe Brady, who we raised all that, do we not think they're going to not be around? Like, I do.
And so, like, just slow the roll. Like, the teams they lost at the Patriots. They're pretty freaking good.
Okay, they're a good team, and this Atlanta team are starting to find their stride as well. Defensively, they just couldn't protect Josh Allen last night, like offense. And so, when I'm watching people really on X and just in general on social media and some analysts, like, Just slow the roll on Josh Allen. Like he's an MVP for a reason.
Now, I will say the interceptions have started creeping up, right? They're four in the last three games. But it's not like they're becoming one-dimensional. And I think that was sort of the issue a couple years ago before they went to Joe Brady. They really were one-dimensional.
I'm looking at these passing attempts. In the five games, or six games this year, there's only been once where he's thrown it over 31 times. And so they're not asking him to do a lot, but it's really hard when he needs some receivers to make plays for him and they're not there. Yes, of course, he's forcing the football in some areas, but. Let's just calm down.
They're still 4-2 the last time I checked, and they're still one of the better teams in the AFC. They've just lost back-to-back games. And I think this discourse around Josh Allen is like, let's just remember who he is. And that's a top two or three quarterback in the league. We also kind of get comfortable and we get used to the idea that, hey, they're down by a bunch of points.
They're going to score 40. In a game like that last night, the Bills' defense, especially in the first half, and it would have been even worse if Drake London doesn't step out at the one-yard line. But they didn't have answers for that Falcons offense. And I thought you go way deeper into this than I do, Chase. But I thought for the people who might have gotten glimpses of Michael Pennix Jr.
in that week three game at Carolina where they get shut out and he is legitimately terrible in that game. We saw last week and then in this one as well, this seems like this is what you're hoping to find if you're the Falcons looking at Michael Pennix Jr. Absolutely. And you know what? It really helps when you have Bijan Robinson, and he is just a freak of nature.
Like, you're going to look. Um, in November, and just the way he's playing right now, he's true, he's like a true outside zone runner. But he does these like jump cuts where it's just like I'm watching the game and I'm listening to Dan Orlowski call it. I'm like, Man, Dan is all over it. But he just looks like the best running back in football because he is the best running back in football.
And he's not only doing it on the ground, but he's doing it in the air as well. And so, when you have a run game that you're actually going to lean on, and you know, hey, if something's not open downfield, and we saw this last night in a couple other games, is just hey, drop the ball off to your running back. He turns these two, three-yard check downs into big plays, and that's what helps Michael Pinix Jr. Obviously, Drake London, he's playing an extremely high level too. And my offense, offensive corner, Zach Robinson, like he's he's doing a really good job, they're finally figuring out.
What their identity is, and it's early, right? And that's what we expect from a lot of different teams: hey, once you find your identity, then you build on what you're really good at, and maybe don't worry about your weaknesses and push them to the side. You might wanna handle this and do it. They know what they are offensively, and it runs through Bijan Robinson, and it just helps Michael Pennix. And you've seen him play a lot better because of that.
In the other game last night, you got to look at the top two picks in that same draft that Michael Pennix Jr. was in in 2024. Jayden Daniels, not his best night. He took responsibility for the fumble late. The conditions were weird.
It was wet on the field. But I thought, even just from watching, again, you're breaking down tape. I'm not going back through like that. But Caleb's played on national TV a few times now. From what we saw in week one, where he started out playing on time and then everything was kind of the hero ball, off schedule, stretching.
Last night was the most controlled I felt like I had seen from Caleb Williams. And it would appear, at least to me, that Ben Johnson's having a positive effect. What do you think? You are absolutely right because that when I went back and re-watched it, I've actually watched it twice already this morning because I just wanted to get a feel for offensively, one, how Ben Johnson's calling the game, and two, how Caleb Williams is reacting to stuff around him. Because I think the commanders did some things last night that maybe they weren't ready for.
But the number one thing that I came around and am most impressed with was just Caleb Williams' patience. One, they only threw it 29 times.
Okay, so that's where you want Caleb Williams to live. 29 to 32 pass attempts a game. Because what I really thought the Bears did, and this is gonna surprise some people in Chicago, but. Their offensive game plan when it comes to running the football last night was the best I've seen a Chicago Bears team run the football from schematically outside zone, inside zone, power, hand the ball off to a receiver, Caleb Williams, touchdown run. How they set that up with the under-center play action.
So there was true balance. 27 rush attempts, 29 pass attempts. But what I think was so impressive was they also did, they made everything look the same.
So, not only are they throwing the football down the field and sometimes, and he was late, right? He wasn't perfect, but he's also, Ben Johnson is also setting up this screen game for Caleb Williams to beat balance. And when you watch Caleb Williams last year, it was like, all right, you have areas of the game where you're throwing it 40 times in a row. It's just like, because they were so bad. This is what type of coaching Caleb Williams needs.
And you're starting him, you're starting to see him sort of come out of his shell and really just calm down. And he's not playing in a hurry. He's playing really patient. He's showing a good accuracy on short and intermediate areas. I mean, look, see number 14, when they were backed up, that could have been a 90-yard touchdown.
The ball was dropped. And then you take into element or the elements into effect too. I thought he played really, really well. Chase Daniel is our guest, ESPN analyst. You can find him all over social media as well.
Speaking of coaching, you're in Nashville right now. You're welcome to confirm whether or not you've been brought in to try to help out with Cam Ward here. They make the first head coaching change of the season. This comes three weeks after they took away play calling duty from Brian Callahan. It's the worst thing that can be happening, I would think, around a young quarterback, which is just kind of this general chaos right now.
If you're looking for one thing or two things you'd like to see Mike McCoy and Bo Hardiger in this group do with Cam Ward from this point forward to get something out of the remaining two-thirds of his rookie season, what is it?
Well, they just have to figure out what he does best offensively. And you can't ask a rookie quarterback. I don't care who you are, if you're Joe Montana or Patrick Mahomes, you have to have balance, exactly what we talked about with Caleb Williams. I feel at times they're just dropping Cam Ward back, and I'm looking at the route concepts and the drop back concept that are surrounding him. And it just doesn't make sense to me.
And I've played in a lot of different offenses, and they need to bring in what he did well in Miami, which is RPO type stuff. Their receivers have been really, really poor with dropping the football. But you can absolutely see just the growth in Caleb and really the games.
Now, he hasn't played well, and that's to be expected. I mean, you can go back and say how many rookie seasons other than Jaden Daniels were just poor. There's a lot. But what he needs to do and what McCoy needs to do and everyone else, they need to get him comfortable. Because let's face it, the new head coach you're bringing in, I think you have to have an offensive mind.
Like, I would love to see, and I don't know if this could happen, but I would love to see like a Joe Braden. Type guy, like go in there and really, because Cam Ward, I mean, make no mistake about it, he is absolutely the quarterback of the future, in my opinion, based on what I'm seeing on film. You get someone that brings that balance like Joe Brady, and they get a good run game. I think their offensive line has played a little bit better than people have probably thought. And they're not that far away.
It's just, Here's the deal. If I'm the Titans, you got to figure out. What the heck are you doing? Because you fire, you hire, you let go of Rabel, and it's just the ownership and the GM and everyone like that. They just don't know what they want.
You have to pick and stick with a guy that you trust that is going to get the best out of Cam Warp. Real quick here, Chase, we only got about 60 seconds left here. Anybody else right now, again, you're watching all these quarterbacks every week. Anybody we're not talking about enough that you think is playing at a really high level right now?
Well, I mean, look, it's Dak Prescott. And I know we talk about him because he's the Cowboys, but like, I just broke him down on my YouTube channel. The dude is not making any mistakes. Like, I'm not looking at any overthrows. I'm not looking at any misthrows.
They're just having to score 40 points to win. Like, what Dak Prescott is doing right now, not only on the field, Like actually doing it and throwing the football, but from a mind game, like he's playing chess out there when other defenses are playing checkers. He has to be absolutely perfect because that defense is so bad for them to be in games. And it's just unfortunate because. That offense with Brian Schotteneyer Man, it is rolling.
I just, I don't know truly if there's a quarterback right now that's playing better than Dak Prescott. Fantastic stuff, as always, Chase. Again, see him on ESPN, hear him on Scoop City, see him on he's everywhere. And thankfully, he's here with me as well. Chase, thanks a lot, buddy.
Appreciate the time. Thank you. Chase Daniel, everybody. TJ over there, his ears were perking up during that Dak Prescott play better than anybody in the NFL right now. I'm glad Chase said it because I thought about saying it, but if I say it, I'm going to get.
Torn to shreds, right? But is Dax an MVP candidate in your mind, TJ? I was talking earlier, I wanted to say it, but then I'm thinking record-wise, right? 2-3-1. 2-3-1, you're not going to win MVQ, which is my.
You know, abbreviation for most valuable quarterback because that's what that award is. It's not most valuable player. But, like Chase said, when you look at strictly the numbers, man, he is. He's got more yards passing than Baker. He's got more touchdowns, I believe.
He does have more interceptions as well. But he's playing incredible. And we don't have CeeDee Lamb, but the defense is. Awful CD, I was told 50-50. He could be back this week for a huge game against the Commanders.
George Pickens is going off. If CD could play defense, that'd be even better. Big show tomorrow. Jamie Erdahl is going to be in the studio, and Raphort will be here as well. Thanks for listening, everybody.
Thanks for listening to the Rich Eisen Show Podcast. You can watch and listen to The Rich Eisen Show live weekdays from noon to 3 Eastern on ESPN Radio, Disney Plus, and on the ESPN app. The Rich Eisen Show, the podcast.
