This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance, fiscally responsible, financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to Progressive and save hundreds. Because Progressive offers discounts for paying in full, owning a home, and more. Plus, you can count on their great customer service to help you when you need it.
So your dollar goes a long way. Visit Progressive.com to see if you could save on car insurance. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another Monday episode of the No Contest Wrestling Podcast. I am the heel that you love to hate, O'Shea Jackson Jr., aka Petty Guerrero. Hey, yo, it's the TOO, the J-I-G-G. To Jagi, TJ Jefferson. I got in there quick because we got a lot to talk about.
Bro, we got a lot to talk about, man. We hit a Fnatic Fest, and you guys don't know. But let me tell you. Podcast bro, we got such a Such a power boost. Such a power boost.
We're never beating the allegations too much. Yeah, those allegations that you have specifically. Yeah. It was Fanatics Fest was. Truly incredible.
I'll just say, first and foremost, I want you and myself to really give us props. When we started this pod, I said one thing I wanted was for us to be at Fanatics Fest doing our podcast. I figured it would take a year. It didn't. It took a few months, and there we were.
And we're at Fanatics Fest in New York at the Javits Center. And when I tell you people that, It was overwhelming. The amount now, let's not even get into the amount of people that were at there, just the amount of your quote-unquote celebrities and athletes and people of note that were all gathered at this place. It was almost too much, really. It was almost too much.
And I'm gonna let you guys know right now, we ran into a bunch of people. who are aware of the pod. And who said that they're willing to do the pod? And we have, if I had to put a number on it, we have six. Very Very powerful guests that are willing to do the No Contest Wrestling podcast.
And it's looking good for you, boys. And we wouldn't be here. If it wasn't for y'all, man, just give a hand for yourselves. No doubt. The love that we got there, they're probably not clapping, but I told them to give a hand for themselves.
You know, and the fact that we got to meet, you know, a few people that we already interviewed, like we ran into Bianca randomly. And it was just, it was great to chop it up with her and let her know that, you know, she was on the never-get-boo list, even if she slaps her mamas. And she thought that was. Hilarious. Yeah.
And she sees me cousin people off her on Twitter. Right. You know, what was really cool is, you know, as O'Shea knows, like, I've been friends with the Bellas for years. And so they. Saw What we said last week about the, you know, the pushback about Nikki.
The Jabronis. Yeah, the Jabronis online. And Nikki came running up to us and, you know, and hugged us and was like, I saw the clip. Thank you guys so much. She specifically looked at me and said, I didn't like what you said, but we'll get to that later.
It wasn't my fault that my fantasy team sucked that year. It was her fault. And I'm going to stand by that. But yeah, we got to see her. We ran into Charlotte Flair, Jay Uso.
Man, all I know is we got hugs from Stephanie McMahon.
So let me tell you this story. There's you and Stephanie McMahon. Isn't that great?
So let me tell you this story. So we go there and they had a little holding area. I guess, you know, air quote-unquote. The Starbucks Green Room. The Starbucks Green Room VIP area.
So we're in there and finally I go over and I got like a little Caesar salad because I didn't have anything to eat. And so where I was about to start the salad, you go, dude, Stephanie McMahon just walked in. And I'm like, I go to you, oh, you're just going to go by yourself? And you're like, yeah, come on. Like, nah, go ahead.
Cause I, you know, I. Understand the difference. Like, I, you know, I know who I am and I know who you are.
So it's like, let you go and cool, you go introduce yourself. When I tell you people, That not 30 seconds went by from the time I said, Now you just go, I see out of my peripheral. I can see Stephanie McMahon. Helmsley. Coming towards me, and I'm eating this salad.
I'm like, oh my God, Stephanie Man is coming here.
So I put the fork down, and then she looks at me, and she's like, He said you didn't want to come over and speak to me. Yeah. So I decide to come over to you. And she comes over and hugs me. And I'm like, yo, this, what is going on?
And there's the deal: Stephanie Mahon comes over to you and she smiles and she hugs you. Like, why don't you come say hi? I fold it like origami. I was just like, she is. I'm just going to say this right now.
I've met a lot of cool people in my lifetime. I'm not saying Stephanie McMahon is the coolest person that I ever met, but she is on the list. Just what a great, like 5, 10, 15 minute interaction we had with her. She was just so nice and so welcoming. Positive and like everything you'd want Stephanie to be when you meet her.
When I went over to speak with her, you know, I thanked her for everything, told her how my, you know, me and my sister, we talked Stephanie up a whole lot. You know, like we love Stephanie. And also, Shay, not to interrupt, but I did interrupt, but I don't mean to interrupt, but you know what I'm saying? You also had put her in your Mount Rushmore the week before that. I told her that.
I tell her that I put her on the Mount Rushmore of my managers. She loved that. And then I point over to where you are. And I'm like, that's my podcast part. He's over there eating.
And I kind of just came over here and said hi to you. She goes, well, let's go say hi to you. I'm like, yeah. She was like, yeah, let's go. Let's walk.
So then we walk over to you. And the first thing you said is, you know, he put you on his mouth rubbish.
So, you know, it was just a great, it was a great time. I got to meet somebody who, you know, inspires me as somebody who took on the family take it to new heights. Served for her, technically, third generation. Yeah. So, you know, Stephanie McMahon.
I'm never beating the allegations, bro. You're not. Oh, we don't work for them, I promise. We don't. You know, that's the thing that goes online: is, oh, you guys, I've never gotten a paycheck from WWE, but here's where I say to O'Shea.
We're never beating these alligators. We get invited to go to this specific thing, right? Yeah. Fanatics Fest, and it was the Triple H water spraying contest.
Now, our pod doesn't go on till 4:15 p.m. This was happening at 11. And I was like, I don't know, bro. Do you want to be there all day? Because, mind you, we've never been there, so we don't know what's going on at this place.
But I say to you, Do you want to be there all day? And you're like, I don't know.
So we thought about it, and the night before, I go, we'll let them over Reaction Monday, which is Rich Eyes and Chris Brockman's podcast. They're doing it there in the morning. I'm like, we got to go show them some love.
So, yeah, we'll go and we'll show up. Unfortunately, we did miss their pod. We were tonight sad. But so we walk into this area. Where the people are getting ready to, and it was the guerrilla position.
Yeah. And there were people getting ready to walk up the steps, go down the ramp, and do a Triple H water spit competition. Who's the first person we see when we walk through this curtain and look right to the right? It's the man himself, Triple H, standing there. Triple H.
And you and I are just like, yo. And then he comes up to you and says, I can't believe we've never effing met before. I think he cursed me. And I said, dude, I can wait to meet you my whole life. Are you kidding?
He was like, Yeah, I see you at all the stuff. I see you guys at the show and how we've never run into each other. I'm just like, I don't know, Triple H. We need to figure this out, Triple H. And, yeah, we had a great conversation about what's going on in the business right now.
We had a conversation about John Cena. And yeah, he signed my old faithful man. My picture right there. My Attitude Era belt. There's six signatures that I want on that.
You guys saw me get Mick Foley. You guys see me get Triple H. I even got the.
Well save that, save that, save that, save that.
Now. I appreciate you. You brought me over. You introduced me to Triple Aids like you did. You're very good with that.
I give you crap all the time because you deserve it. But in these cases, you were very good. Like, I appreciate it. I did appreciate it. Cause you know, I'm so used to, you know, who my friends are.
I've been in these situations hundreds of times over 20 plus years.
So I kind of, you see me, I'll kind of do the Ice Cube thing. I'll shake their hand. I'll make it a firm shake. I'll say, What up, Ice Cube, and then break like I did. At the airport, because his pops was on my flight there and you weren't.
But anyway, that's a different story.
So I kind of just played the background. You know, I let you guys do the moment. And then, but as we're talking, I had to share the story with him. I'm like, WrestleMania 39 in Philly. I'm coming out of this VIP area.
You're coming down in a golf cart. I see you. You see me. I go to put my hand out for a shake. You go for the pound.
Then I go for the pound and you go for the handshake. And we ended up doing some weird thing. Bro, he just cracked up laughing. We totally messed it up. He goes, We totally messed that.
We totally messed that up, dude.
So we finally got the real handshake. And I said, bro, 99% of the time, I would have just done this anyway. And he goes, yeah, most people do. And I'm like, I don't know why I didn't think to do it. I was like, I was just like, oh, crap, there's triple eight.
So then he and I got to hit the two suite together. And it was dope. And, you know, we got to stand right there where he said, Hey, everybody, you want to see how it's really done? And he starts to prepare. They play the music.
Boom. And I happen to, and I'll put this on our Instagram page. I happen to be standing right next to him on the steps.
So I got this video of him and you can see it was like. He was in the game. He was in the mode, and he was sitting there, man. And like I said, I'll post the video. And you could just see it, and he takes the water and he starts walking up the steps.
And then I run over to the monitor.
So I get that full experience. And then I record as he comes back down. And it was just, it was great. But I told Shay, like, we all took pictures together. I'm sure we will find you and him.
The one with the three of us is what I'm looking for. Got the point. Got the point, got the, we all did the two-sweet. And I went, I said to Shay, like. You're never going to beat these allegations now because people see us hanging in the back with Triple H.
It was. That was crazy, man. It was unbelievable. And then So we go to another Starbucks area. Holding area.
We go upstairs and I see my buddy Mike McGinnis, works for Frenatics. I'm saying hi to Mike. I kind of turn and look. and sitting at a table in the corner by himself. The Undertaker.
So you went over. I'm so you went to the bar to get some water. Yeah, you dipped and I'm talking to my buddy and I look over. I'm like, there's Taker. And then I see you walking up with the belt.
Yeah. This was what you were about to say. You got the Undertaker. I got the Undertaker signature on the belt.
Now, let me tell you what's funny about this is after you got Triple H, you said to me, I need three more people to sign this belt. I need Taker, Kurt Angle, and The Rock. And you go, who do you think is going to be the hardest to get? And I was like, maybe Kurt Angle, because he doesn't seem to be out as much as all these other guys. But I had no idea that 20 minutes later, we walk into this room and there's the Taker.
I look over, I see you getting the belt sign. I come over, my buddy Mike introduces me to Taker, and bro, I don't know if I told you this. I shook his hand and I went, How are you doing, Mark? Oh, yeah, you told me, you told me. And then two minutes later, I went.
Yo, I have to apologize to you. He goes, what? I'm like. I think because you do the podcast and now you're being a little bit more open, I felt like I knew you. I said, I called you Mark.
I called you by your first name. I apologize for that. He goes, TJ realizes. He goes, Well, you know, the older I get, The easier I am about stuff like that. And I was like, Thank you.
I was like, Man, I apologize. But then I told him that I met him in 2005 at WrestleMania. After WrestleMania, Stacey Keebler took me to an after-party WrestleMania 21 in LA. I said, We took a picture. I actually was able to find the picture somehow on my phone, which has 62,000 pictures on it.
I show him, and he was like, Wow, look at that. And I said, Would it be cool if we recreate this? And you grab the phone and you're like, Absolutely, I got it. I got you.
So you can see the picture that we just put up on the right-hand side that's Undertaker and I from 2005 after WrestleMania. And then the picture on the right. is us 20 years later 20 years later so there's 20 years In between these two pictures, man, and it was just dope. You obviously got taller. Uh, well, here's the girl.
I think, I think in the first picture, he was actually bent down a little bit.
Okay, yeah, he he. He's legit 6'9, and it was just... It was just cool because everyone, Edgar Take was one of those people who like. Non-wrestling fans know who The Undertaker is. Yeah.
You know, iconic, though.
So it was just dope to be able to chop it up with him. You know, we saw Randy. Didn't get to speak to Randy. Randy came walking by. And I'm always like, people say Randy weighs like 290.
I'm like, there's no way. I promise you, Randy Orton's a solid 270. You know what I mean? And just. It was just amazing.
It was a great time. I'm sure we'll talk about it more because you know how these things go. Yeah, the more you think about it, like, oh, yeah, this happened. Oh, y'all going to get tired. You're going to get tired of hearing this.
We weren't just having a good time out there. We were also working. And we had an amazing sit-down with Mr. 619, Man Mysterio, man.
So, I mean, We could just keep talking about it, or we could show the people what they came to see, man. You know, I like to say I could show you better than I can tell you. Yeah, exactly.
So. Without further ado, here is our interview. With the great Rey Mysterio at Fanatics Fest. Check it out. You know how we get down.
This episode brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? shifting a little money here, a little there, and hoping it all works out.
Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can get a better budgeter and potentially lower your insurance bill too. You tell Progressive what you want to pay for car insurance and they'll help find you options within your budget. Try it today at Progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law.
Not available in all states. Let's talk O'Reilly Auto Parts, people. They're in the business of keeping your car on the road. OOOORILY Auto Parts offers friendly, helpful service and the parts knowledge you need for all your maintenance and repairs. They've got thousands of parts and accessories in stock either in store or online, so you never have to worry if you're in a jam.
The team at O'Reilly Auto Parts can also test your battery for free in or out of your car. If it needs to be replaced, they'll help you find just the right battery for your vehicle. Need your windshield wipers replaced, a brake-like fixed, or a quick service?
Well, they'll help you find the right part or point you to the nearest local repair shop for help. I know because it's happened to me. The professional parts people at O'Reilly Auto Parts are your one-stop shop for all things auto-do-it-yourself. And you can find what you need in store or online. Stop by O'Reilly Auto Parts today or visit us at O'ReillyAuto.com/slash Eisen.
That's O'ReillyAuto.com/slash Eisen. All right, this is our second live show. Biggest live crowd. Biggest live. We had like six and a half people the last time we did this.
That's what I'm talking about. Bless you. Thank you for coming back. I got some big news for y'all. I got to meet Triple H today.
Yeah. Yes, I love that for me. I got to meet Stephanie McMahon today, so. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Was that a pub?
Was that a. Yeah, man, but today we're going to be. We got a special guest. Yes, sir. We got the man today.
Many say the greatest Luchador of all time. I think that's a pretty safe bet. Pretty safe bet, but don't let his son here.
Alright, that's the homie. I can't let Dom know that I called. That's the thing. We're cool with Dom, and so now this is going to be interesting.
Now, we might get cut out the group chat. Yeah, I mean, not me. I actually wasn't in the group chat personally, so, but you were in the group. I'm a hot commodity, bro. All right, how's everybody feeling?
Confirmed. Why is this so hot? Bro, New York was not hot when I left. You haven't been here since 89 though, so this- Bro, 89? I'm born in 1991.
Do not listen to him. 89, but I seen do the right thing. All right. Yeah, so you should know what's hot. The heat made New Yorkers crazy.
Radio!
Now Coming to the stage. Here's a multiple time WWE World Heavyweight Champion. Yes, sir. A multiple-time tag team champion. The man has done everything.
He's a Hall of Famer. Yes. Royal Rumble. Royal Rumble. The man lost an eye.
Lost his eye. They got back. Got it back. 2020 vision. 2040.
Who's that jumping out the sky? R-E-Y. Ladies and gentlemen, give it up for Ray Mysterio. Put your hands together for the grave. Ray Mysterio, let's go.
Boyaka, boyaka. Boyaka, boyaka. Good a me stereo. How you feeling, Ray? I'm feeling great, man.
That's really good.
Sorry, I'm late. Man, that's all right, bro. Traffic got heavy here in New York. You're late on time. That's how I look at it.
You're right on time. Black people late all the time. It's fine. It's perfect.
So are Mexicans. Yeah. We got our own time that, you know. Yeah, but so. As I like to say, you know, we've got to start this off from the beginning a little bit.
I always say being a junior myself. That the The heaviest two letters in the alphabet Are J and R when they're next to each other, all right? You take on a lot.
Now, I know that was your uncle, and you know, things like that, but when you finally decided. I'm going out as Rey Mysterio Jr. Kind of take me through that process and that mindset.
So for me, it was like I knew from. the moment that I saw wrestling for the first time. That's what I wanted to do. I grew up watching my uncle. Go into uh wrestling school with my uncle.
He would let me go in the ring and roll around. Talking five, six years old. and then uh watching him wrestle every Friday night in Tijuana. Coming back home with him? Unpacking his gear, laying out his mask, his boots, and that to me was like really cool.
Like, I knew I wanted to do that. From the moment I fell in love. Right. I started training, and at the age of 15, I was 14 going into 15. I got my first opportunity, and I've always wanted to be the junior.
Like that was something I didn't know how much pressure. it was gonna take, but that's what I wanted to do. And uh at the time I'm talking late 80s. Uh The juniors and the son of The certain wrestlers were very popular at that time. Hijo del Santo, Blue Demon Jr.
Um Rayo de Jalisco Jr.
So I wanted to follow in that path. But my first wrestling name, unfortunately, was the Green Lizard. Yeah. Oh. But um When my uncle decided to put the name Or to add me as one of the family members as.
Rey Mysterio Jr. That was two and a half years into my professional career. And I was completely honored. Again, I had no idea. the pressure and the hard work that came behind it.
But I knew I was ready. I felt it deep down in my heart that I was good to go. That's what's up. Ray, who who would have been a bigger star in wrestling? The green lizard or the hummingbird?
Personally, I think the hummingbird.
So, for those who don't know, those were some of the names you wrestled under. Yes, so the green lizard was a one-time thing. And then after that, my uncle at the time was very good at Giving names to up-and-coming wrestlers. He would design the masks, the outfits, and he would say, you know what? We're gonna call you this.
So for me it was The hummingbird. In Spanish, colibri. And he said, You're going to use uh pastel colors, you know, the turquoise, the light yellows, the whites. And that was kind of like My identity for almost two and a half years. And at the time, I was very comfortable with that.
I was like, Cool, I'll I'll roll with that. I mean I I didn't tell him, but I was thinking in my head. I really wanted to be Ray Mysterio Jr. or the son of Ray Mysterio, but if If hummingbird it is, then I'll roll with it. And I got so comfortable with that name.
That when he surprised me, and walked in the ring. in one of my matches prior to the match starting. He came out. I was like, what's he doing out here? He grabbed the mic, he made the announcement.
Yeah, you guys know that uh uh Polibri is my nephew. But from this moment on, He will now be Rey Misterio Jr. And I was like, whoa. Oh, and he had no idea. No idea.
No idea. He had a mask. already made for me. with the design that he would use. And we kind of took off the colivri mask without showing my face.
on the Ray Mysterio Jr. mask and from that moment on I became Ray Mysterio Jr. That's what's up. And how old were you when this was again, Ray? I was 17 years old.
17 years old, man. When I was 17, I got fired from McDonald's, Ray, so it was a whole nother, you know, I didn't have it like that. Bro, my mom recently told me a conversation she had with my dad. Where um You know, he looked at her and said, he was thinking to himself, you know. He said he wished that he would have given me my own name just because of the pressure that comes with being a junior.
And he asked my mom, you know. Why'd you let me name him junior? And he kind of had those emotions going. I was 31 years old. Why are you having these thoughts?
I got a whole life already. Was it hard for you just now thinking of this? Was it hard for you? Like at the beginning, did you know, did you realize the pressure that came with it? No, not really.
Right. It it it like until I got out there. Like until I started my career, it didn't really feel like anything. It was just like, you know, I'm. It's me.
Yeah, yeah, like, I just go by Shea. But when I started to work. People, how people are scared of my dad. I don't know if you know, people are scared of my dad. And so they have this idea of who I'm going to be before they even meet me.
And then they get to, once you finally get to know me, you get to see me as an individual. And Junior kind of stops that a little bit, but I'll never give up my junior, bro. It means everything.
Now, Frank, you said, was there pressure? I'm going to tell you, he didn't feel pressure. He was 13 years old. Before he found out his dad was in the group before Westside Connection. Damn.
He didn't know about NWA, so I don't know if you're not. I was biased. I was biased, bro. I don't care about any other member.
Now You mentioned that you had A situation where you, you know, when you got Rey Mysterio Jr., you did take the mask off.
Now I know there was a situation in your WCW days where you were unmasked. Talk to us a little bit about how you felt because I know, personally, as a fan, I hate seeing that video. I was so happy. I watched it live. You probably, you were like two when that happened.
Yeah, I can't stand that video.
So, like, what is your thought process during that happened? And talk to us a little bit about getting the mask back.
So you gotta look at it like from my perspective. That mask In Lucha Libre in Mexico, is everything. You cover your identity. you have pretty much a double life. You're a mass man when you go to work.
And then when you don't work, You're incognito. Nobody knows who you are.
So in WCW at the time, A lot of the luchadores were losing their masks. And there was a couple guys that They wanted to take the masks off. But they didn't agree to it. And then my name started to float around, and the reason why my name started floating around. was Scott Hall.
I guess he told Eric Or he told me in that that whatever he said, Got around. He said, Ray, why are you wearing a mask, man? You're a pretty motherfucker.
So I guess that eventually got to Eric. Eric Bishop didn't really understand the significance of the mask. And uh They try to take it off a couple times. Halloween have it. 1997.
Yeah. The match that put me on the map against Eddie Guerrero. Yes. Yeah. Just give it up for that match.
That's a six-star classic. That was the night that I was gonna lose my mask the first time. And It was a big battle back and forth. I wasn't going to go. I got a call from Eric.
Home, he said, you better show up because if you don't show up, you're in breach of contract.
So I showed up, then I tried to talk to him the night before. It wasn't going my way.
So Literally, uh The show starts for that night. and a match before Eddie and I go to the ring. finish of the match is changed. I'm thinking in my head, damn, this is my last time. And then a match before.
Okay, Rape, you're winning the title.
So everything just It's almost like they were playing with my... My head, you know, and it was like, damn. Anyways, I realized that night that working under pressure Is really good for me because, goddamn, that match to me is one of my tops.
So uh Then later on The day came where I did lose my mask, Conan and I versus Scott Hall And Kevin Nash, it should have been Lex Luger. But it was Scott Hall. and I lost my mask and at that time I was like okay I can't do anything about it. I just gotta roll with it and figure this out, you know, as I move along. And I did.
Felt the animals were born, and that was kind of like a cool little click. We were just being ourselves. And then uh When I got, when the company closed down and WWE picked me up. I'm thinking in my head, because I was already wrestling for two years without the mask. I'm thinking, okay, I gotta figure out.
What gear I'm going to bring to WWE? And I had this cool getup. With um A similar version of what Scott Steiner used to wear, the chain, the headpiece, with the chain vest, and I was doing that with the contact lenses. And maybe a couple days before my debut. They were like, What mask are you wearing?
They asked me, the office did. I'm like, what do you mean, what mask? I've been wrestling without a mask. Oh, no, no, no, no. Vince wants you to come back with the mask.
I'm like, nobody told me anything.
So um I had a red outfit made. And uh sure enough, I came back with the mask and that was That was kind of a I At the time, A trendsetter because anyone that lost their mask in Lucha Libre. That's it. They know who you are. You can come back maybe a year later with a different name.
Mass Nobody will know who you are, but for me to have lost it. come back with the same name and wear the mask. It was like it became something cool, something new. And uh I'm kind of proud of that moment. That's it.
Absolutely. How important was WCW? in your opinion to showcasing the Luchadors because before then you guys, I don't think you had that type of exposure that WCW gave you and it almost seemed like Eric would put you guys on at the beginning of the show as sort of like, all right, just give them their time and then you guys just absolutely dominated at that. That time was kind of crazy because at the time I wasn't too invested in trying to figure out how politics work. and what you needed to do to get a push.
how political you needed to be. to be heard or seen. We were just going out there and having good matches like we would do in Mexico. Like we had, we didn't change anything. We would just go out there and crush it every night.
And I think that within itself. Kind of put Lucha, leave it on the map. You know, then of course we started to see Eddie. and Malenko and Jericho like push for the rights of smaller talent to be seen. And that's kind of when it all just started to flow.
And they gave us a little bit more exposure, but Yeah, at the beginning it was like, we just go out there. Have a good match, and the fans were pretty much the judges. They were the ones that started. Seen us. and going, wow, this is cool.
We like what we're seeing. It was awesome. Yeah. Now I need to know something juicy. I need to know.
What was your welcome to wrestling moment? What was either a bump or a situation where You might have taken a hit too hard and thought, wow, this is my life now.
So what was the Welcome to Wrestling moment?
So I I do remember Before I even became a wrestler, going through the training process. I thought that because I was the youngest and smallest kid in the class, And my uncle was the teacher or the coach. That Shit was going to be easy for me. Like, I'm good. You know, that's my uncle.
He's training everyone, so he's going to take it easy on me. He made an example of me. every time he could. And there was many times that I would Get hit too hard. and start crying.
Roll out of the ring. Saying, that's it. I'm done with this, man. Go to a corner inside the gym and kind of just look with the corner of my eye. See if my uncle was going to come over and talk to me and say, Hey, come on, man.
It's okay. Come on. He never did that. And because he never did, I would look over. He's not coming.
He's not coming. I would slowly make my way back into the ring and be part of the class. And then he would tell me, you ready to come back? Yeah, I'm ready.
So that kind of, it was that tough love. But I really enjoyed it, you know. Oh, I loved it. That's got to be tough to do, right?
Now Is there a move? That you hate taking Not really. Dan, I'm um Because I was the smallest kid in wrestling school. And Every hit that I would take felt twice or three times as hard. Yeah.
And. I want to say that I was I was raised in wrestling school. with the tough mentality.
So I would like to bring it every time I would go into the ring. And I really enjoyed it. Like that was that was an adrenaline rush for me. I guess you can call it was an adrenaline junkie. Taking big bumps.
and uh taking the risks of getting Choke's land or Whether strapped on a stretcher and swung into a post by Big Show. That was a crazy one. Oh, well, Ray, speaking of hits, I'm going to take you back to something. I don't know if this is a pleasant memory, but one of the most famous episodes of Nitro when the NWO first got together. NWO starts to clean house in their wrecking shop, and then the camera follows.
I think it was Jimmy Hart. He stops the tag match. He's like, come with me, come with me. Everyone goes in the back, and there are all the WCW guys laid out by the NWO. Kevin Nash is standing there and then you come out of her production truck and he catches you and he I guess Ray, the best way to say it is respectfully.
He kind of lawn darts you into the side of a production truck, and it was just one of those shots that, you know, 25 years later, we're still talking about. Can you tell us how that whole scene, that whole situation came together? I remember they were going over the skit of what was going to happen. And uh I told MASH I can do this, you can catch me, and I want him to throw me through the Through the window. Yes.
Like No, are you crazy? I said, well, let's do something cool. And he ended up throwing me into the camper that was there, the trailer, which they called it the long dart moment. But You think about that, like I've done crazier stuff. But at the time for that scene, for that much of an impact.
Like it was it was huge. It was And it was something that I, you know. I put together with Kev, and Kev agreed, and we kind of both cooperated with it. And it just turned out perfect that, like you said, still. How many years later?
No, 25 years ago. Yeah, 25 years later, you know, it's still. being talked about. Again, having having the uh that tough mentality of of I want to do the biggest bump. I want to make it look cool.
Uh it's not gonna hurt. You know, I'm good.
So uh It's just the way I was raised. And fortunate enough, that has made an impact on my career. Yes, sir. Now We talking about him taking a lot of punishment. But he hasn't only taken punishment This man was champion of the world.
Yes, sir. This man was champion of the world. Climbed to the mountaintop. Many doubted him, you're not supposed to be there moment. I need you to talk to us.
about what it felt like. to go either home or to the hotel. When you lay your head on the pillow And you won that belt. You won the big one. Big gold.
Take us through what you were going through. I have to point out that I truly believe in my heart. that that moment wouldn't have happened. If any hadn't passed. Because the connection that Eddie and I had, even though we were feuding.
At the end, my last match against Eddie was SummerSlam. for the custody of Dominic. Which I wish Eddie would have beat me and he would have kept on it. Looking back. But uh Um That connection that we had, you know, everything that we did together was so.
unique, was so real, so organic. that when Eddie passed I believe Pat Patterson was the one that mentioned to Vince at the time You gotta put the title on him. You know, and and that took me to obviously winning the Royal Rumble, then moving on to winning the world title. But It happens so fast and it's so surreal. having my wife there.
Uh Dom and Aaliyah, you know, just Very young. The excitement. There's a lot of friends, a lot of people that wanted to be there just to celebrate with me. By the time I got to my room and unwind, It was like It's all gone. Like, that's it.
It's over. You enjoy the moments of. Exposure or or laughter or just even Talking about What happened that night? But once you get to your room, it's like It almost like it vanishes. And then you go back to reality.
And it's like, all right, that was just another day. At work. And That day at work went perfectly well.
So uh I'm ready to move on and wake up the next day and keep grinding. Damn, that's what's up. Yeah, man. Let's give it up for that answer for... Ray.
Ray, we just had WWE just put on Worlds Collide a few weeks ago in LA. Let's talk about the original Worlds Collide, I believe, in 94. How big was that? Card for you because that was your first, really, your first big exposure in America, right? Definitely, definitely.
That's when WCW, I believe. Saw my work. live for the first time. I believe Eric Bischoff was there that night. And that's when I really got my exposure.
In the United States for the first time, I would do independent scenes, you know, wrestle in LA. But For something as big as Worlds Collide and being that it was coming from an organization Yeah. was created in Mexico like AAA. You know, it was a really surreal moment. Again.
You don't Take in consideration, this might be your opportunity to jump. to a bigger platform, bigger stage. You're just going out there, at least I was just going out there. And giving everything I could, not thinking about what was going to happen after. I would just put it on the line.
And then just That's how doors just eventually opened up for me Like an ECW, WCW. And WWE?
Now During World's Collide, you met a guy who is a pretty big name in wrestling right now. Uh Paulie Dangerously. He saw your work. obviously was a fan, he invited you to come to ECW. What was that like for you to be able to kind of work on your craft there?
And tell us a little bit about Paul's mind, man. That that was a very uh historical moment in my career because right after Worlds Collide is When Eddie Dean Jericho, they were all in ECW. Conan was there at the time.
Now, I gotta give uh respect and and Mad love to Conan because He was the vision behind Rey Mysterio. Nobody believed in me because of my size. because I was skinny. I was too short. I didn't look like a wrestler.
So Conan Opened up the doors in AAA. I made a household name in uh in Mexico City. Nationally. And then after that anywhere that he would go He would always say You got to bring Ray and psychosis. That was like the...
The dynamite team right there. And when when Conan was in ECW, Eddie, Dean, Jericho, they were leaving, going to WCW. And Paulie asked Conan, do you have anybody to replace? My guys that are leaving, he said, I know exactly who.
So he brought psychosis. And myself to uh ECW and after that The rest is history. Even the safest drivers still encounter unsafe conditions, so it's important they do it in a safe vehicle. And Hyundai's offer available class executive advanced safety features to help keep you protected against the many challenges the road throws your way. Basically, in a Hyundai, you can drive as safely as possible and enjoy your journey in confidence and style.
When you change lanes, signal, check for traffic and enjoy the added safety of Hyundai's available blind spot view monitor. Constantly scan for dangers and take advantage of Hyundai's standard forward collision avoidance assist to help prevent accidents by alerting you of imminent collisions and automatically applying the brakes. Stay alert at all times and be thankful that Hyundai's standard driver attention warning system monitors your attention levels and can bring your focus back on the road. Safety is all about making the right decisions on the road and when selecting a vehicle. Learn more at hyundaiusa.com.
Call 562-314-4603 for details. Let's talk about coffee, people. If you're like me, your day cannot begin until you've had your first cup. Whether you're gearing up for back-to-back meetings, shuttling kids back and forth to activities, tackling an endless to-do list, your morning sets the tone for it all. And the perfect cup of coffee sets that tone, crafted just for you.
Enter. trade. Trade is my number one U.S. coffee destination, bringing you fresh coffee from over 50 of the country's top roasters. Trade's experts have taste-tested thousands of coffees to curate over 450 amazing roasts.
Just take their quiz and under a minute, they'll match you with your perfect coffee. If that first bag isn't quite right, trade will replace it for free until they nail it. And if you're headed out on summer vacation with Trade's subscription flexibility, you can pause or shift delivery while you're away and resume when you're home, ensuring you'll come home to great coffee. Iced coffee too.
So Right now, Trade is exclusively offering our listeners fifty percent off your one month trial at drinktrade.com slash Eisen. That's drinktrade, T-R-A-D-E dot com slash Eizen for fifty percent off your one month trial. Drinktrade.com slash Eizen. You brought up Dominic. And we gotta be honest.
You bring him up. You brought him up. Dom was on our podcast a few months ago. And. You know, he had some interesting things to say about...
His upbringing and how tough Dom had a very tough life in San Diego, apparently. It was rough, bro. We know this because he told us how hard his life was.
So I just want to let you, Ray. You guys can hear it, right? Dom had some things to say about how hard he had it growing up. And I just want to get your reaction to what he had to say. Turn it up.
Growing up in the hard streets of San Diego. Where it's no joke down there, Don. It's no joke, man. Where I had to... I asked for a Mercedes, got a BMW.
Um just you know rough rough I had to I I didn't even, I had my own room, but across was my sister.
So like I didn't even get my own upstairs space. It was just it was hard. That's it. I had to do my own laundry, which is creepy. I didn't even get paid for it either.
Um This is which I'm pretty sure is illegal. It's child labor. And to make matters even worse, when I did do stuff here in WWE for like SummerSlam and I ended up getting paid for that, I never knew where the money went.
So, Ray, I mean, I gotta admit, that last part he said is true. Oh my, you heard it! You heard it here first. Tom is a survivor. I don't understand how, look, he wanted a benzo.
You got him a beamer. He didn't have his own wing in the house, and Leah was across the hall from him. He had to wash his own draws. And he didn't get paid. And he didn't get paid.
Ray. I wouldn't call you a monster or anything, but I'm surprised the kid lived, to be honest with you, because I wouldn't have made it personally. All he needs to say is that he cooked his own food. Because goddamn is he lying. Man.
So you saying that's not true? You're saying that dom lied? Out of everything he said, the only thing that's true Is that he did work at SummerSlam and prior. Uh leading into that pay-per-view. And he didn't see a single dime.
Yeah. Yeah. Where did the money go? I don't know, Dom. Where did it go?
Oh listen. Maybe that was a payment for the BMW that he got. Listen, everybody thinks my first movie was straight out of Compton. My first movie is a movie called Janky Promoters. I'm in that movie for like a couple of scenes I never got paid.
Not a dime. There's a case pending, but like. Don't let them know.
So I feel him. I feel them 100%, bro. I feel it. I was in the movie called Just Married years ago with Brittany Murphy and Ashland Kutcher. I was in the scene.
I never got paid either.
So I, you know. My bad. And we got family stories. That's sad. Because I was just a broke boy from Altoona, Pennsylvania.
I didn't have any money. My first wrestling match was. outside the parking lot of a church. and my pay for that night. was a sandwich.
And a coke. And I enjoyed the hell out of it. What type of sandwich was it? Ham and cheese. I think it was ham and cheese.
Yeah. Ham and cheese. Well, in Mexico, we call it torta. It was a torta, yeah. Torta and cheese.
Okay.
Now, real quick, so look, however you want to answer this. Despite the fact that he's wild and out and acting the way he is right now, and apparently lying on you. Oh no. How good does it feel? to see this kid.
Where he is right now just. Man, he's making himself such a superstar. It's incredible. As a as a father, And being around my kid. you know, not as much as I would have loved to.
because I was always grinding. Uh and providing for the family. Maybe at the time I wasn't working hard enough. To get him a Mercedes, but I did get him a BMW. He did your best.
And it was brand new. It was brand new. Oh, it wasn't the pre-owned beamer. No, no, no, no, no, no. Those kids got everything they wanted.
And maybe that's why he is the way he is now. The internet spoils way too much. Um No, but it it was uh Seeing Dominic now I've become a big fan of his work. I enjoy watching him on TV. And there's this satisfaction and this pride that I feel that I would love to show to the world.
But I keep it. I know how I feel. And it's huge. It is huge. Especially, and you might relate to this, but.
When you carry a name of a legacy. God damn, it's gotta be really hard. Yeah. At least it it feels hard, especially when they're pointing the finger or they're comparing you. You know, for him it was It was a bit difficult at the beginning, but once we separated and he found his own path and we detached completely.
And he started to get the groove. Onto the direction that he thought he needed to go without me being in his ear. That's the best thing that could have ever happened. Yeah, when I started my career. Like, for a guy who wants to make a name for himself and Get out of a shadow.
It's really hard when you look like the guy. You got the guy's name, and your first job is playing him in a movie. It's a real, I'm starting at zero right there, you know. You crushed it doing that movie. I really loved it.
Thank you, man. I appreciate that. But yeah, when I started to. Have to make my own decisions as far as films go. I started to have that name.
You start to get a groove. And I feel like Dom is in an amazing groove right now. I mean, the man tore the roof off the place at WrestleMania. There's no way to get rid of that, you know.
So I know you're a proud dad. Yeah, that was an incredible moment. You're also known as, I see my man with a LeBron James jersey right here.
Now, I put you in the same category as that as far as. You have Battle Father Time. For so damn long. Like you got him on the ropes, and you've continued to show. That you still want more and you still do more.
You've been around the world and I. You've seen all parts of the business, old and new. What I want to know. What do you think is missing? From today's wrestling.
And also, is there something that you're glad that is gone? Personally, I don't think that There's something missing like right off the top of my head But I am very aware of the evolution of the sport And I accept it because that's That's just the the path that it's taking, you know. Um I'm proud and I'm happy to say that I created some of that. You know, a lot of people didn't know what Lucha Livere was. or the high flying Hybrid style.
And I was one of the founders that introduced that. And WCW for the first time. you know, along with Eddie and everybody else that came with me.
So That gives me a huge satisfaction. Uh There's There is certain talent That um has a certain style. Up I've always been That type of aggressive style, you know. I don't mind getting hit in the face or getting slammed as long as you're careful. And you don't hurt me?
I'm good. Bring it. Just know that I'm going to bring it to.
So I like that style. Of evolution that I see every now and then with certain superstars, and I enjoy watching that. I enjoy how much um The creative mind just flows, and how different moods are evolving and. To the point we're like, damn. That was cool.
You know, and that to me is cool because I I could only imagine when I was doing different stuff in the ring. How many people were looking at that and going? Damn. That was badass. I really like that.
Ah. Yeah, thank you. Word. Thank you. That's always been part of my passion, just trying to figure out And Bring something different.
To the crowd, every single time I step into the ring. I've always been very innovative. And that's where the new generation is going. I enjoy watching that. I really.
I really enjoy it. Um is there anything that I that I don't like? Not really. You know, I just think that everything is flowing in the direction that it should be going. The only reason why is because the audience, the WWE universe, is enjoying it.
And that's what matters. Yeah, is it something that you're glad that it's gone? Like some stuff from the old days that you're glad changed? Uh Not really. I mean Off the top of my head, I can't think of anything.
And probably when I leave here, I'm going to go, damn, I should have said this. And I would come back anytime. I'm pretty mysterious. I would never come back. Um I do uh I do wish they would do a little bit more of mixed tasks.
Matches. You know, I really enjoy those. And I think that that just gets very creative. when it comes down to uh seeing your favorite Female superstar. and favorite male superstar, you know.
I know with uh that we're a little bit sensitive with A man putting his hands on a woman, so we're trying to stay away from that. But overall, Just uh The beautiful sport uh professional wrestling And it's full Uh capacity. Is so beautiful to watch, man. And you enjoy it. I enjoy it as a wrestler.
I can only imagine how the fans enjoy it, you know, as fans. Wha Let's give it up for that.
Well, Ray, that just gave me an idea. WWE is going to make tag team championships.
Okay.
Mixed gender. Who is your partner? Tag Team Championship? Yep. Yeah, mixed.
What female WWE superstar would you choose to tag with? I'll tell you what, I think I would. I would probably go Where's the Oscar? Oh my god. That is his favorite.
Anytime you say Asuka around TJ. A tear falls out his eye. I mean, I love my mom. Yeah. And I love Asuka not as much as my mom.
She's a little bit, she's, you know, I speak of her in those type of references. Yeah, I'm such a huge Asuka fan. She's just amazing to me. Awesome.
So is he you? EO. EO. E-O! Yeah, he can tell you.
I spent the entire Royal Rumble yelling two names. Yeah, EO and Oscar. Lost his voice. I did. I did.
Incredibly talented. Listen, if you're making him. Pick a teammate, I think it's only right for a question that we ask every time on the No Contest Wrestling Podcast. All right, here we go. Because I don't know what he's doing, but he's telling us something.
I think it might be time to go soon.
So we get this out the way. Unless you guys have to go. No, I don't know him, bro. Rey Mysterio. Rey Mysterio said we can keep going, so we're going to keep going.
Alright shit, I need you gotta tell me twice. Let me get calm.
So Ray. You are in a bar. Yes. It's 50 dudes in the bar, and they don't want you there. They're hating on you, Ray.
A couple of haters. All right. You need to pick a team of four other superstars. to make sure you get into the car. For superstars of any era, of any time.
Who got your back? I would love to throw Kevin Nash in there. Big sexy.
Solid pick.
Okay, we got a hand thumbs down from out there. I would love to throw the old version, Shawn Michaels, in there. He's just a sexy boy. I'm for sure he had a bar fighter too. Um I would not Roll without my dog.
K-Dog Kobe must be there. Yes. Absolutely. Dominic would be on the other side before he made him. It would be Tom and 49 other guys.
That's how we probably see it. And last but not least. Um Eddie was wild, man. I bet. And you didn't.
You did not want to see him pissed off.
So I would definitely throw Eddie in there.
So, Nash, Sean. You Eddie and Conan. And Conan. And Conan. That's a solid squad.
What's up? You might not even need to fight.
Now we're looking at, I'm looking at Eddie. And I've always said this, that to me, Eddie Guerrero was the greatest house show wrestler I ever saw. From Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, I'd sit in the very top of the civic arena and I'd watch Eddie Guerrero wrestle, and it was almost like he was performing for me. way up top.
So, can you explain everybody and tell us what are the differences between house shows and normal televised shows, and how much more freedom do you get? when you're in a house show.
So I I truly believe that how shows Are the shows where you get to learn and experience. Different types of movements, interactions, connections with the crowd. even with your opponent. that you can eventually do on a T V show. And that's when you have the freedom to kind of just navigate throughout the ring.
and feel certain things out. See what What gets a good reaction, what gets a bad reaction. And Do your wrestling based off The crowd response. And Eddie was very good at that. I learned that from Eddie.
from day one. He was always very good. Right now, as you said, you were way up on top. Eddie was that type where It wasn't just the front row. He wanted to make sure that everybody at the very top.
was able to see and enjoy as much as a person in front row. Thank you. I'm glad you can validate my story then because that's how I always felt, you know.
Now, I feel like I know. The answer. Dom had the answer I'm thinking of when we asked him. But something that I like to get from Superstars, when we have them on here, it could be. You know, while you were in the business or while you were just a fan.
Is there a moment where wrestling broke your heart. For me personally, Yes. Mm. I was I was a fan of the sport. 'Kay.
I was training. And my uncle. My uncle was a mass wrestler, so he brought the name Raymond Stereo to the family. And He was known for winning many masks throughout his career. and many matches where he expose his mask against hair.
Hair versus mask match.
So Me growing up watching them as a nine year old, ten year old, eleven year old, I believe I was twelve at the time. where he had a mask versus mask. and it was against a wrestler by the name of Fishman. And that night He lost his mask, and I could not believe it. Like it was.
It was shocking to me. Like, I was crying, tearing. I couldn't believe it. I was pissed. I was like, what's going on?
Keep in mind I still had no idea how The sport Yeah. Worked. Was in motion. Yeah. I worked.
I was still, yeah. My uncle never taught me from the beginning. I had a. work my way up in order to learn how this really worked.
So, this was again early 90s, and it was very hard. But that was a moment where. Wrestling did break my heart for the first time. Got that last question? Got the last one.
So everybody. We're going to let Rey go, but before we let him go, you guys are all witnesses. We are now going to induct the great Rey Mysterio into the No Contest Wrestling Hall of Fame.
So, can we give it up? Parade.
So, Ray, at the Hall of Fame, you know, we're gonna have a Rey Mysterio bust. We're gonna have your whole section. And we're gonna have a video screen. And on that screen... Are going to be three quintessential Rey Mysterio matches that we're going to play on the loop.
Which three matches do you want to put?
so that anyone who may have never seen you before can watch this match and know this is what Rey Mysterio was all about. Wow, the God, I have so many matches that I would love to point out. But I truly believe That Matches that started to give me recognition. My first rival, without a doubt, was psychosis. And we can say Bash at the beach.
That's what the beach side coaches? I believe 96. Um after that My first match In WCW, or I should say the one that put me on the map. was Halloween Havoc 97. And then My very first storyline coming into WWE And I truly believe that this is What kind of set my path in the direction that it went.
And After I heard the story on why I ended up working with him, even made me feel more proud. Summer slam. versus Kurt Angle. Oh, yes. Like that match was like.
I had never worked with him. in a singles match. He've always wanted to learn that lucha. Style And believe it or not, Chad Gable reminds me so much of him. But uh Later on, Kurt Angle told me the story that They gave him three names.
uh of people that he could work with for his next um Dude. And out of those three names, he picked me. And that's what ended up putting me versus Kurt Angle in the opening match at SummerSlam in Nassau Coliseum. That was a tough one. Those three right there were.
The tops. And I'm sorry I only gave you three because I could have gave you 15 or 20 and you still would have had a hard time coming up with them, I'm sure. Funny enough, I've always been blessed with having a good connection with my opponents. You know, uh From the moment we step in the ring, my first match against Dean Malenko in. And um oh God, um with WCW Great American Band.
I was going into WCW thinking that I was going to get a tryout match, which is what I know now that people get prior to. to a SmackDown or a raw kicking off. And uh I get thrown in the first match to open up the show. without them even seeing me perform or having any connection with Dean.
So that was my first time wrestling against Dean, and it was the opening show for the Great American Bash. And like I said, I've always had this connection. with my opponents that have been Very blessed. to be able to perform at the level that I've performed over the years. Because of that connection, that understanding of the sport.
Creative magic, man. You created magic. Ladies and gentlemen, give it up for Ray Mysterio! Bro, Fnatic Fest. Who do we think we are, bro?
Rey Mysterio, we'd like to thank you, of course. One of the greatest of all time. Dom, don't be mad at us. Yeah, I was a little worried. I hope that doesn't affect our Dom relationship.
But hey, man, we had to get to the bottom of it. Got to do what I got to do. You know what I mean? And maybe one day we'll find out where that money went. Yeah, I mean, I'm not asking.
But. Speaking of doing what we got to do, our next guest has a book out right now. Go ahead, peep it, peep it right there. Say hello to the bad guys: How Professional Wrestling's New World Order Changed America. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the No Contest Wrestling Podcast.
The author of this book, Mark. Raimundi. What's going on? What's up, guys? What's up?
Thanks for that great intro. That was dope.
Well, I mean, we deserve to sell it. We got to sell it. We got to sell it. This is awesome, man. NWO Had not just the wrestling world, but really pop culture at that time in a chokehold.
What made you? Want to like dive into this and write this book. Man, it's like I've said for so long. even before I got this opportunity that If you're paying attention, you can see wrestling everywhere, you know, all over this country. Everything that you're doing, whether it's in sports or music or politics, like wrestling is everywhere.
And I think wrestling fans kind of know that to an extent, like they see it and it's obvious to us, right? But it's not obvious to other people who don't know wrestling.
So I've always kind of like wanted a platform, like a vehicle to kind of. Show that and kind of like, you know, write about that. Cause I am, you know, I'm a reporter, I'm a writer. And then a few years ago, when the NWO went into the WWE Hall of Fame, I got assigned that article for ESPN because that's my, that's my regular, you know, my regular day job, right?
So I wrote that article and like I kind of went off. Like I kind of like I kind of didn't just do like a 500 word like story. I like I put my foot in that. You know what I'm saying? You know what I mean?
Like I yeah.
So and and you know, I wrote it and then I kind of went back to what I was doing. But a year and a half later, I got an email from an editor from Simon ⁇ Schuster, which is one of the biggest book publishers, right, in the world. And this editor asked me if I wanted to write a book about the NWO. He had seen that article on ESPN. And he wanted to do because he was we're around the same age.
Um and he wanted to do a book on the NW over Simon and Schuster. And I guess he saw that article and he was like, I think that might be my guy.
So we ended up, you know, connecting and. It was just kind of off to the races from there. We shared a vision of like that same thing that I was talking about about wrestling kind of being everywhere. And That's how the Burkhana came to be. No, I The process of making this What span of time are we looking at that that went in into making this book?
That email came in in May 2021.
So that's when I got the email, and now it's almost four years. Actually, it's over four years later. I did a ton of research, so I watched like more than 500 hours of WCW. And I'm actually, believe it or not, still married after all that. And I interviewed almost 100 people.
And then, you know, I wrote it.
So it was a long process, but I wanted to make sure that it was like. You know, well reported, you know, good details, you know, talked to as many people as I possibly could, from wrestlers to, you know, behind the scenes folks, like producers and, you know, production assistants and engineers, like anyone that was around that could possibly provide like some context or detail to what was going on back then. Because it was such a different time period, the 90s, you know, in wrestling and. You know, the wrestlers were different, the culture was different, but it was. Incredibly compelling, like all the stories that you know they told me and that I you know hopefully relayed well in the book.
Can you uh let us know some of the the people you got to talk to? Yeah, I mean Sean Waltman, which I know you guys had him on recently. He was incredible. We sat down in LA, like a diner, because he lives out here. And Conan sat down with him, Scott Steiner, a lot of the big names.
Eric Bischoff was huge.
So I got that email in May 2021. And the first thing I was like, I got to make sure that I can talk to Eric Bischoff for this book because if I can't talk to Bischoff, then what am I? How can I even write an NWL book?
So we sat down during, this is back when he was cool with AAW. He was at AAW Double or Nothing in Jacksonville in 2021. And we sat down at a Dave Manbusters and we just kind of like chopped it up for a few minutes. And I told him who I was, what I wanted to do. And he was like, Absolutely, whatever you need.
And you know what? He followed up and he followed through completely.
So I flew to his home in Wyoming. Um, which is not an easy thing to get to. You got to apply to like Montana and then drive like an hour to get there. Anyway, so I sat down with him, uh, sat down with him, you know, in his home. And he gave me all the time I needed to talk about everything, you know, all the stuff that you know he talks about on his podcast, but I went, I tried to go deeper, you know, than just that.
Yeah, so you know, they ended up, it started in 90. 96, right? What did Eric tell you? Because, you know, we've heard the story, you know, floating around, but like now we have you in the book. What did he specifically tell you about like.
That idea and bringing this group to life. Yeah, I mean, so one of the crazy things about the NWO and what was going on in WCW at that time is that it was like. He had an idea, right? But that's really all it was. It was an idea, and there was a little bit of planning, but a lot of it was like.
Fly by the seat of your pants, try to capitalize on what was going on because it wasn't supposed to be Hogan as the third man, right? His original idea was going to be Sting. Sting, yeah. And It actually took Hulk Hogan to call him one day because Hogan was doing a movie in like, you know, spring 96. He was doing a movie out here in Calabasas.
Oh, Santa with Muscles, by the way, critically acclaimed. And he was getting, so Jimmy Hart would send a FedEx of Nitro on VHS. It's crazy, like right now. It doesn't have long ago, but like it was a different time.
So Hogan would get the VHS every like Tuesday from Jimmy Hart on FedEx. Just to keep it. Just to keep it just to see what was going on. Because he was busy doing the movie, so he wanted to watch it in his downtime. And he saw what was going on with Holland Nash.
And remember, this is a time period where this is. a decade into Hulkamania and it's not hot anymore and it's the mid 90s and people want different stuff and he's getting booed a little bit and his reactions are not what they were. WCW's business was like kind of plateauing. with him as kind of the top the face of the company.
So we saw what was going on with Hall and Ash and One day in May 96, he calls Bischoff on the phone and he's like, Can we have a talk? Can you can you come to LA?
So Bisho flies from Atlanta to LA, lands Takes a cab to Calabasas, goes into Hogan's trailer. Hogan's sitting down with his cigar, case of Miller Light, which he always had consistently with him. And the first thing he says, and like no, no small talk, nothing, he was like, So brother. Who's the third man? And Bischoff didn't know what to say because it was going to be sting, but...
Bischoff was afraid that if he told Hogan it was going to be Sting, then someone else was going to find out it was Sting, and then someone else was going to find out, and then Dave Melcher was going to find out it was going to be all over the dirt sheets.
So Bischoff just said, Who do you think it should be? And Hogan said You're looking at him, brother. Yeah. And that was it. And that was it.
That's how it all kind of came together.
So. They adapted. Obviously, Hogan being the third man made it massive. If it was staying, it would not have, you know, it would have been a good wrestling story, but it would not have transcended wrestling the way that it communicated. It stayed, right?
It would have stayed. It would have been a cool pro wrestling angle, but Hogan turning heel at that time, massive. There was nothing that went, there was no viral at that time in 96, but that went viral. And it's funny because, you know, it was the bash of the beach, we know, and people. Oh I don't know that they always like to say it, but.
When He comes walking down. during the tag team match. And Bobby Heenan said, Well, whose side is he on? Or something to that effect. People now want to rewrite history and try to be like, Well, Heenan, he kind of ruined it.
Like, no, he didn't, because Bobby Heenan never liked Hulk Hogan. He always thought he was, you know, kind of, you know, piece of trash guy like heenan was always the hill manager going against hogan so It didn't seem out of place for him to question anything that Hulk Hogan was doing. Yeah, he was staying true to what his character had been for a very long time. And also, like. Those guys weren't looped into what was going to happen.
No one knew. No one knew for sure that Hogan would actually go through with it and turn heel. They were. They literally like they had to hold Hogan up in Kevin Sullivan's like townhouse in Orlando, like near where the uh sorry in Daytona, near where the building was, in the ocean center in Daytona. And he had to be kind of like Don't let any outside voices get to you because his wife didn't want him to turn heel.
His agent, Peter Young, didn't want him to turn heel, and Jimmy Hart wasn't a huge fan of him turning heel. And that was like his inner circle.
So he had to kind of almost go against that because they were afraid of like the movies and they were afraid of the merchandise and you know the make-a-wish stuff charity stuff. The met yeah, the money stuff. Because like, you know, I feel like now it's a different time, but back then, like, heels were not making the money that the babyfaces were. The heels were, you know, the ops, right? You know, the babyfaces were the stars.
And we're not talking about the Samoa Joe group. No, not Hook and Samoa Joe and my boy Shibata.
Well, shout out to Hook, by the way. I'm a fan of Hook. I'm a fan of Shabbat. But now is there, you know, you're a wrestling fan. You've been, you know, been a wrestling fan for years.
Is there anything during this journey of making this that even shocked you?
So, I think one of the coolest parts of the book is that no one knew. Who designed the NWO logo for almost 30 years? Yeah. Which. I did not even know that.
Because it's like one of the most iconic logos in American pop culture history for me. I mean, maybe I'm crazy, but no one knew who this person was. And I. I sat down with Neil Pruitt, who is one of the producers of WCW, and he was the guy that was responsible for like. The look of the NWO, like the black and white promos, and he was the voice of the NWO.
He was like, this announcement is paid for by the New World Order. Yeah, that's Neil Pruitt.
So I sat down with him. I sat down with him in Atlanta, and he was like, you know what? You should really try to find the person who did the logo. And I'm like, what do you mean? And he's like, no one actually knows who the person was.
The story everyone knows is that it was made at Disney MGM Studios, where WSW was at the time. but no one knew who the person actually was who was at the computer designing it. And I was able to track her down. And what did you find? I found that uh the first thing that she asked me when I found her was How many t-shirts did they sell?
Because she didn't know. She was not aware of how big. This thing had gotten like she saw it a few times in passing, but for her, it was just like a regular part of her day, right? She was just working in an office, and a few producers from WSW came in and said we needed a logo, and she She did a logo and That's it. She moves on to the next thing.
And now, you know, and now 30 years later, people know who she is.
So it's a crazy story. Speaks to kind of like, How, like I was saying before, like everything was kind of fly by the seat of your pants, right?
Now in WWE, it's like if someone, if someone's gonna debut, they got that merchant, they got that merch on lock, right? They got that stuff, you know, text already drawn up before they even, our truth comes back, right? They got that, they got the Ron Killings t-shirt on, you know, before the end of the broadcast. That was not like it wasn't WCW. There wasn't NW t-shirts for like two months after Bash of the Beach.
September was the first time that they actually wore them on Nitro. After so after and uh bash of the beach was in July.
So they were really like uh they didn't really know what they had, you know, at that time and there was no preparation for it. How soon did that logo come? Because I was just watching a random clip the other day and Hogan had the the old shirt where literally it just looked like a spray-painted huge like N-W-O.
So it wasn't the square familiar shape that that looked with.
So how long did it take for them to get that and put that on? It was it was like in the weeks after Bash of the Beach, but they were not able to get like the ball rolling yet on the merchandise yet.
So they didn't roll out like what the what the logo was going to be until they had the shirts ready. And that wasn't until like again, I don't think they didn't wear the shirts on TV until September. Yeah. Could you imagine? Can you imagine now?
Like, something big happens in wrestling and there's no merchant until two months later. But that was just how things were then. That merchants were very small. One of the cool things too about the shirts, and I love this detail is that so. I think y'all know a little bit about music and going to events, right?
What's the first thing you see when you're walking up to the spot? Like some guys selling bootlets, right?
So, what they would do. to to give the appearance that it was that this was like a renegade like invasion. They had people go out and sell the NWO shirts outside the arena as like bootleg shirts. They were actually the officially licensed shirts. But they made it seem like it was like this guerrilla marketing thing that is really smart, like really, really smart.
And they really committed to the idea of like the K-Fabe of the invasion. They really did. Like they sent out merchandise catalogs once things, you know, got rolling. And the merchandise catalogs had like different phone numbers on it. Like it was different locations, different, it was really the same all.
Office, but they made sure to keep the WCW and the NWO merchandise separate.
So it felt like. It was two different things, even though it really wasn't. Yeah, because during that point it was always like WCW and there's versus NWO. What kind of you know and and we know NWO went on so long that everybody and their mother became part of the group. It's almost too much.
W w is there a point did you kind of come pinpoint when it kind of all went south and like Because you had to split with the wolf pack. By the way, let me ask you that because we're big wolf pack fans. How did the wolf pack? Come into play with this as much as much as I love the wolf pack as a kid, and I mean I still love the wolf pack and the music and the and the you know the design to me like in watching it back again It felt like the wolf pack was almost like the end of what the NWO story was supposed to be because it was supposed to be an invasion You know you're taking over but and then now but now your two groups going against each other So that's that didn't happen So actually the NW didn't take over anything now they're just fighting you know they're doing infighting so to me the wolf pack was kind of like the end of that first like nwo story arc and then it became a new thing But the the whole Wolfpack thing and They were great. But a lot of it was done out of necessity because Hogan and Nash were really Not into each other at that point.
Like they were really, they were kind of through with each other. And Hall was in rehab at that time in 98. Sean Waldman had just gotten fired by Bischoff, you know, and that was that really rubbed Hall and Nash the wrong way.
So And it made them feel like Bischoff was in with Hogan politically backstage more than he was with them. And that led to a lot of infighting, not just with the Wolfpack versus NWL black and white, but also backstage with Hogan and Nash. It got a little dicey there for a few months, like where those guys were really at each other's throats. Wow.
Now, s something I want to ask that's that's Beyond the book is a question that we usually We usually ask people here on no contest, but you've been a fan. For however long you've been a fan, I need to know. Yeah. When was a time where wrestling broke your heart? Wow, and wrestling broke my heart.
Yeah, like for me, you know, watching The Rock get jumped by the NWO and then getting spray painted and all, or the ambulance getting knocked over, or when Austin teamed up with Vince at the end of 17. Yeah. So, when was the time as a fan where wrestling broke your heart? I hate to give this answer because it's pretty dark. Oh, no, dude.
Because it's not a storyline, it's a reality. Oh, yeah, yeah. I've had a few of those. The Benoit stuff. Like, I had to, like, I've been a fan since I was five, and I like Hogan versus Warrior.
WrestleMania in Toronto. Like that was where I first became a fan and I was five years old. And when the Benoit stuff happened, and I was a big fan of him, when that happened, I had to I had to hit the pause button on my wrestling fandom for a minute because it was just like and you know, and like, you know, Eddie Guerrero passing away, like, you know, when that stuff was happening, it was like, man, this is like It's hard to watch this because you know your favorites are are literally dropping dead it's been it's been a it's been a crazy industry you know it really is it's it's like the most unique industry there is and it's like yeah As far as entertainment goes, like, I don't think there's anything like it. Yeah, no, I Obviously, as a kid, you know, you have your favorites and you watch because it's the greatest soap opera ever. It's incredible.
But. As an adult, what I've learned to appreciate is: you know, I'm an actor, so. They're doing what I do. Live. Mm-hmm.
Have to add to the character weekly. No takes. No redos. No, it's just like, get it right, or like, you're done. You know, and You might also break a limb, you know?
It's Broadway to violence. And if you can't appreciate that creativity and everything that goes into it, you're not watching it the right way, you know?
So, yeah, absolutely, dude. And there's a lot of that in the book, O'Shea. Like, one of my goals for the book is to hit the non-fans who don't understand wrestling and don't understand why it's been so influential. But if you just think about it, like, the country that we're living in right now. It's like.
The biggest R in Hollywood is the rock. Yeah. You know, and John Cena and Dave Batista are not that far behind him, right? President of the United States is in the WWE Hall of Fame. It's crazy.
And this book goes into kind of how that happened. And I would argue, and I do argue in the book, that the 90s wrestling boom, which was started by the NWO, led us to where we are now as a society and as a culture because. That's when all of us were watching. You know, I'm 40. You know, and a lot of people that were my age, a little bit older, a little bit younger, were all watching the attitude era, the NWO, flipping back between Nitro and Raw.
And that leaves an impression on people. You know, that leaves an impression. And a lot of folks. Then take that, what they watched when they were a kid and they bring it into their lives, maybe even without knowing, you know, subliminally. Yeah.
And now, like, we're all kind of like adults and we're, you know, we're doing all our things. You know, you guys have your podcast, and you know, I'm a reporter. And there are so many wrestling fans around the country that are in all different kinds of jobs. And they brought that influence with them, whether they're musicians or artists or lawyers or doctors, like they bring that with them. And I think that's how.
I mean, how do you impact a society and a culture? You impact the people in a society and culture. And that's what happened in the 90s. And now here we are today. That's a fact because my license plate says too sweet.
And as O'Shea will tell you, this is my standard issue for almost every picture. Mark, I could talk. Forever. about this with you, but you got a book to sell and I'd rather them buy it.
So, you guys, to hear those stories and many more, go check this out. Say a little to the bad guys. Absolutely. I cannot wait to really dive into this. 30 seconds.
Tell the people who aren't wrestling fans why they need to see your book. If you want to understand more about America and American culture, you have to know about Pro Wrestling. And this book is a great way to find out a lot more about Pro Wrestling. Say hello to the bad guys. Go get you a copy, man.
Quit playing. I know you're watching us, but get your ass up and go see it. Mark Mayround. Thank you. Thank you, bro.
Appreciate you guys. I really appreciate that a lot. Yeah, bro. Easy. Too sweet.
Much love to Mark, man. Make sure you go get his book. Cool, dude. Yeah, very cool. Great dude.
Great stories, man. And plus, like I said, he covers the Atlanta Falcons for ESPN. Tough job. Check out his work for sure. But, you know, I know what you're going to say to me next.
You're going to tell me where I could tell them to find us. Yeah, go ahead and do that. All right, Ben, I'll do that for you.
So you can find us on Twitter, X, There's No Contest. There's no contest. Find us on Instagram, No Contest Wrestling Podcast. You can find all of our videos on the Rich Eisen Show YouTube pages. Type in No Contest Wrestling.
They'll pop up. And remember, when you go to Apple and Spotify, not only listen to the pod, but make sure you hit that download button. That's very important.
So download, subscribe. That's how we get the numbers and we can keep this thing moving.
So you can find us everywhere out in the social world. You know, we ain't hard to find. We in them streets. Yeah, absolutely, man. We appreciate you guys tuning in.
Yeah, there is no contest, man. Make sure you guys have a good day, but not too good. Cause who the hell do you think you are? Bye, Miss Parker. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah. Oh. The United States Soccer Federation presents the U.S.
Soccer Podcast. Inside the opening, 45 seconds. What a goal! With that cannon of a I'll leave it. Never miss a game.
What a start for the United States. Shot for distance! What a goal! Never miss a moment. Exquisite from the San Diego.
Can he finish? Yes, he can! Yeah! The U.S.
Soccer Podcast. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.
