The Narrow Path 10/16

Music Playing Good afternoon and welcome to the Narrow Path Radio Broadcast. My name is Steve Gregg and we're live for an hour each week, the afternoon, taking your calls.

If you have questions about the Bible or about the Christian faith, or perhaps you have a different viewpoint from the host and would like to balance comment, feel free to disagree with the host. We'll talk about it. I'm going to give you the number, but the lines are full. So while I give you the number, you may want to take it down and call in a few minutes because every few minutes lines open up. So right now you'll get a busy signal if you call, but if you call in a few minutes you can get through very possibly. The number is 844-484-5737.

That's 844-484-5737. Now a couple of announcements, maybe three. Sunday night, if you happen to be in Indiana, anywhere near Indianapolis or Lafayette, Lafayette is actually where I'm going to be speaking or battleground more properly. I'll be speaking on Sunday night.

There will be some discussion of the Kingdom of God and the Gospel, but then there will be Q&A. And that's in battleground Indiana Sunday night from 5 to 7 p.m. And if you want information about that, you can find it at our website. I'll be speaking at the Battleground Bible Church. Also, next week I'll be speaking in Oregon in a few places. I actually am speaking for Youth with a Mission mornings next week in Oregon, but there's a couple of public meetings.

The Youth with a Mission classes are not open to the public, but on Monday night, the 19th, and on Tuesday night, the 20th. I'll be speaking in the Albany area. I'll be speaking in Albany on Monday night and Tuesday night in Shedd, just outside of Albany, Oregon.

Now these are going to be Q&As, but I should say this. The Tuesday night, we're meeting in a little church that has plenty of room for anybody who wants to come. On Monday night, we're going to be meeting in a home and the space is limited. And we want you to, if you want to come on Monday night, that's of course just coming Monday, you need RSVP. And the people who live there will give you the address and let you know if they've already filled up, which they might fill up before you call. But if you call now, you can probably get your reservation in.

Of course, it doesn't cost anything, just limited space. So first come, first served. That's Monday night in a private home in Albany, Oregon, and then Tuesday in a little church outside of Albany in Shedd, Oregon. And you can find the specific information about those things, again, at our website, thenarrowpath.com. That's thenarrowpath.com.

You just go to the tab that says Announcements and scroll on down to the date of the event you're interested in knowing more about. All right, we have our lines full, so let's talk to these callers and get some room for some new callers, too. John from Jackson, Wyoming, welcome to The Narrow Path.

Thanks for calling. Thanks, Steve. Hi, Steve.

Hi, Steve. Yeah, I've just been thinking, I know the joy and the peace that I receive from knowing the Lord Jesus Christ, but I've been thinking about comparing that to other religions around the world. What other religions have the joy and just the volume of songs that have been written and just the benevolence that has been done in the name of Jesus Christ? I mean, does anything compare to Buddha, does Muhammad, do any people do good works?

Well, lots of people do good works. I mean, that's kind of what religions are mostly about is being good, being better than you would be if you weren't in that religion. And as far as the joy in it, I can't answer for anybody else because, of course, joy is a subjective thing. There's a lot of people who call themselves Christians, go to church that wouldn't testify that they're full of joy, but the Christian faith has been characterized by joy. Certainly the Book of Acts describes the early church as always rejoicing and full of joy.

I mean, that's one of the main features you read about in the early church in the Book of Acts. And certainly those who really know Christ and really walk with Him know that phenomenon. They know that joy unspeakable and full of glory that the Bible speaks about. But I wouldn't say that people in other religions or even that atheists don't have the ability to say, yeah, I'm a happy person too. It's just that you can be delusionally happy.

You can actually be living in a delusion, and that delusion can make you happy. Being a Christian isn't about being happy, although joy and happiness are certainly a byproduct of really walking with God. Paul said that the fruit of the Spirit is love and joy and peace and other things too, but joy is high on the list.

So if you're a Christian full of the Holy Spirit, then joy is characteristic of that. And that's why there's been so much music written in the Christian faith. Most religions do not feature a lot of singing actually. Some of them have chanting and prayers and things like that, but music is largely a characteristic of Christianity.

I'm not saying no other religions have any, but certainly as you mentioned, there's a huge volume of hymns and songs and spiritual songs that seem to just kind of bubble up and emerge from the lives of people who are full of joy in their salvation. So as far as comparing that with other religions, I know that I've heard preachers say, yeah, you'll never be happy until you come to Christ. Well, some people have never been sad until they came to Christ. Some people never suffered persecution until they came to Christ. Coming to Christ, you don't do that for the happiness in it, though there is certainly that as a byproduct. And something like happiness or joy can be experienced if you're delusional in some religion that isn't true. The reason for being a Christian obviously is because it's true. Christianity is true. Christ is real. And that would be something that would be worth following even if there was no particular subjective reward.

That we had for it. Because frankly, I'd rather be unhappy and know that I'm in touch with reality than to be happy and have some suspicion that I'm delusional. That's just me.

But I think, well, it's not just me. I think that's people who care about the truth. We're not in it for the emotions. But the emotions are there. So I think what you're trying to say is that the joy you have in Christ, you doubt that people would have without Christ. And I think that is true in the sense that the joy you have is the fruit of the Spirit, which is a deeper and greater thing than mere happiness, than just feeling that all is well or that things are going the way you like them and you're enjoying yourself. Christians can be joyful even when they're not enjoying themselves, as when Paul and Silas were thrown in prison in Philippi and they're beaten and they're put in stocks.

I don't think they're enjoying themselves at all, but they sang and they praise God and worship God and they were rejoicing in the Lord. And that's what the Bible says is normative for Christians. Even in persecution, Paul says we joy in tribulations. We rejoice in tribulations. Now, many Christians listen to me say, well, I don't rejoice in my tribulations. And I say, well, that may be because much of what goes under the title of Christianity today is really kind of sub-biblical.

It's kind of sub-normal Christianity. And if you don't have the joy of your salvation, then I would, if I were in that position, I would certainly keep searching for a deeper and more life-changing connection with the Lord because some people, they believe in Jesus, but they don't let that affect their life very much. Surrendering to Christ, I think the life that really yields that joy is a total surrender to Christ where you actually have given up your own agendas. You've denied yourself and even taken up your cross and followed Him. But He gives you joy even in the suffering, which sounds probably crazy to people who don't know that phenomenon, but those who do, they just know that's a reality. Anyway, I appreciate your call. I can't answer for the other religions that you're asking about, but I'm sure that there are people who are Muslims and Buddhists and Hindus that say, yeah, I'm quite happy.

Thanks. I find the way I am. But of course, the real question is, is their religion true? Not, does it make them happy? You know, going to the bar and drinking all night will make you happy perhaps, but it's not the same thing. It's not being in touch with reality. It's in fact, the more you drink, the less in touch with reality you are. So the question is, do we want to be happy or do we want to have the truth?

I remember A.W. Tozer said, if I can either have the truth or happiness, give me truth, I'll have eternity to be happy. I don't have to be happy now as long as I have the truth. Eternity will be happy for me if I live by the truth. John from Westminster, Massachusetts. Welcome to The Narrow Path.

Thanks for calling. Hi, Steve. My question comes first to the Thessalonians. Paul is talking about how the Jews, they killed Jesus and killed the prophets and drove out the apostles. And he says, they're not pleasing to God, but hostile to all men, hindering us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. But the result that they always fill up the measure of their sins, the wrath has come upon them to the utmost.

This word is telos. And in my Bible it says it can mean forever, all together or to the end. So I was wondering what your opinion is of this wrath has come upon them to the utmost. Do you think it has something to do with AD 70 or the final day of judgment?

I absolutely believe that it has to do with AD 70. You know, Jesus in Matthew 23 was rebuking the Pharisees and scribes because their ancestors had killed the prophets. And they, that is the current generation that he was addressing, adorned the tombs of the prophets and respected the prophets and said, if we had been in the days of our fathers, we wouldn't have killed the prophets. And Jesus said, you hypocrites, you admit that you're the children of those who killed the prophets. Now you go ahead and fill up the measure of your fathers, meaning your father's killed all the prophets.

Now you're going to kill me. You're going to kind of fill up that, you know, fill up the cup of wrath as it were, the cup of iniquity and bring it on yourselves. And a few verses later, Jesus said, all this will happen on this generation. So the judgment that Jesus said would come upon the Jews because of their filling up the iniquity of their fathers by killing him, he said, would happen in that generation.

We know that historically it did. There's the horrendous Holocaust that came upon the Jews when the Romans came in 66 AD and when they destroyed the temple and exiled the Jews and slaughtered a million of them in AD 70. That is the wrath. Now Paul uses the same language in 1 Thessalonians. He says that they fill up the measure of their sins always. That's the same kind of term that Jesus used for that generation. He said, well, the wrath has come upon them to the utmost.

I think what he means is it's hovering over them ready to pounce like a sword of Damocles over their head. Unless they turn to Christ, they are facing a horrendous judgment. And I think it's the same judgment Jesus spoke about. So in my opinion, when he says the wrath has come upon them to the utmost, I think he is alluding to this horrible Holocaust that was impending only a couple decades off at the time he wrote. Others might just assume that it's talking about the last day Great White Throne judgment and the Lake of Fire and things like that.

I suspect that most of those who suffered in that Holocaust also will experience the Lake of Fire. But I don't think that Paul is thinking of the last day judgment at that moment. He could be. I can't read his mind.

But since he used language so much like that of Jesus and Jesus referred to that which would come upon them in that generation, I think Paul was probably referring to the same thing when he used the same language. I appreciate your call, bro. Let's talk to David from Eugene, Oregon. David, welcome to The Narrow Path. Thanks for calling. Yes, thank you, Steve.

Two quick questions. One, if Samson's last act wouldn't have been one of repentance, do you think his salvation would have been in jeopardy? Well, yeah, we don't know much about the state of his soul. He certainly was a compromiser throughout his lifetime. I mean, as a Nazarite, he wasn't supposed to touch a dead body, but he touched not only a dead body, but the corpse of a lion, which is an unclean animal.

No Jew was supposed to touch those. He was not supposed to touch anything from the grapevine, and yet he went to parties and such and kind of ignored the restrictions. And he wasn't supposed to cut his hair, and he finally broke down and allowed that to happen. And that for a woman who was apparently a prostitute that he was consorting with. So, I mean, obviously he was not a godly man, at least not in his daily behavior. Now, to what degree in his heart he really kind of wanted to be a godly man and was just weak, I do not know. He didn't advertise by his behavior himself as a godly man, but he did. We assume he repented in the end there, where he actually doesn't really speak words of repentance.

He prays for God to give him one last opportunity to bring vengeance on those who poked his eyes out. But he was, in a sense, calling out on the name of the Lord. So, I think we should understand he died a man of faith. In fact, the book of Hebrews in chapter 11 lists Samson among those who are said to be those who received a good report through faith. So, despite his personal indiscretions and failures, he is apparently regarded to be a man of faith, either early in his life or late.

The writer of Hebrews doesn't say when. He might be saying when he was doing all these feats of strength, it was through faith, though the writer of Hebrews doesn't specify that. Or it might be that when he called out on the Lord at the end of his life.

The writer of Hebrews sees that as his act of faith. Samson's an enigma. I knew a man in the Jesus moment who was a very powerful evangelist, and I think a very sincere one, but a weak one. He fell into sin, and he'd repent, and then later he'd fall into sin again. And he finally, he actually died of AIDS because of having fallen into sin, but he was trusting Christ at the end when he died. But he's a weak man, and his former pastor at his funeral said, yeah, he reminded him of Samson. He had a very powerful anointing from God for winning souls and things like that, but his own character was just up and down.

And I think whether that was true of that man I'm just describing or not, that would be certainly true of Samson, it seems to me. So if he hadn't repented at that point, if he in fact did at that point, would he be in heaven? We wouldn't know because we don't have enough record to know whether he repented prior to that point. When he got his eyes poked out and his hair cut off and was grinding mill like an animal for the Philistines, there's a good chance that he kind of repented. It's a little easier to give up your sinful ways when you're blind and in chains.

He's not partying anymore or consorting with prostitutes. So I mean, he may have come to his senses like the prodigal son. The Bible says the prodigal son, when he's in the pig pen, he came to his senses and repented. My guess is that probably Samson did, though we don't have a specific record of him doing so. Thanks.

Thank you. And then for the next question, I was listening to your show, it was probably about a week ago, and you were talking about when Jesus had told his 12 disciples that they would sit on 12 thrones. 12 thrones judging the 12 houses of Israel. Yes, and that also was, so then if I understood it right, Judas was still, of course, part of that 12. So then at that point, with Jesus giving Judas the benefit of the doubt, like not pre-determining that he was going to turn him over and giving him every last chance to back out of what he was essentially doomed to do. Well, I suppose that's a possibility.

I wouldn't necessarily read that into his statement. That is, of course, Judas was still among the 12. When Jesus said, you 12 will sit on 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel, that would seemingly include Judas. But we have to recognize that after Jesus rose from the dead and in the book of Acts, the 12 became sort of a technical term for the apostolic leadership, even when they weren't all 12. For example, Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15 that Jesus appeared on Sunday night of his resurrection to the 12.

Well, actually, Thomas wasn't there the first time Jesus appeared, and Judas wasn't there. So there were really only 10. There were only 10, but he appeared to the 12. The 12 meaning the apostolic group. I think the 12 becomes like a term for the group of apostles, regardless what number of them may actually be there. Now, Judas, of course, left the body of apostles, and it says in Acts chapter 1 that he fell from his position and went to his own place, and then they appointed a man named Matthias to replace him, and Matthias was then counted, it says, with the 11. So there's still 12. I mean, it's like the body of apostles is 12 in number, but who's there at any given time? I don't think the Bibles are too...

I don't think they're too technical about, you know, that. I mean, Judas was part of the 12 when Jesus made the statement. When Jesus said, you 12, he might not have meant specifically you 12 naming each one, but rather the body of the 12. The body of the 12, which Judas removed himself from and someone else, Matthias, came in, will sit on the 12 thrones. So I think that, yeah, sometimes people think that, you know, how could Jesus say that when Judas was among them? But when we recognize that the later, after Jesus died and rose again, the term the 12 kind of became just a term for the apostolic leadership of the church, of which there were 12, but it may not have always had to be the same 12. Obviously, it wasn't because Judas left. Now, some people don't think Matthias should be included.

Some think Paul should be, but that's a different discussion, and I don't think they intended... I don't think God even intended that Paul, though he was an apostle, would be part of the apostolic 12. They were to have a ministry to, as Paul says in Galatians 2, to the circumcised, and he and his apostolic group, including Barnabas and others, were going to the uncircumcised. So there were the 12 who were apostles to the Jews, and then there were others, Paul and Barnabas and others, who were apostles to the Gentiles. But the 12, obviously the purpose of there being 12 in the first group is because there were 12 tribes of Israel, and there was deliberately an attempt to, as it were, mimic Israel. Jesus is creating a new Israel. Israel had 12 tribes. The church was headed up by 12 men initially, too. Anyway, the short answer is no, I don't think that we would have to assume, as you asked, whether Jesus thought maybe Judas would repent. Because even if he thought Judas could, we know that Judas didn't, and therefore if Christ in his humanity didn't really know how it would turn out for Judas, he still couldn't assure Judas that he would be one of the 12.

So I think when he says you 12, I think he means you, the apostolic body called the 12, will sit on thrones ruling over the 12 tribes or judging the 12 tribes of Israel. Thank you very much. Okay, David, good talking to you. Thanks for your call. John from Oregon City, Oregon, welcome to The Narrow Path. Thanks for calling. Hi, Steve.

Thank you. Two quick questions, and I'll take the answer off the air. The protesters seem like they're tearing down all kinds of statues.

Anyway, I guess they haven't tore down that rush more yet. But Exodus 20 verse 4 says we're not supposed to make any graven images, so how do they justify all those? And I'm wondering maybe the protesters have a good reason. The other question is in Matthew 4, 34 through 37, and James 5, 12, it says not to take any oath, just let your name be named. And then Judas said what comes up more than that is comes to evil. So it seems kind of ironic that when they take the oath of office, they put their hand on the very book that tells them not to do it. Those are my two questions.

Okay. As far as the protesters tearing down statues, I don't think any of them are thinking in their mind, we should tear these down because the second commandment says we shouldn't make graven images. That's not really their motivation. Whether it's right or wrong to make statues based on that command would be a separate issue, and I would answer that. Making statues is really not forbidden, although it sounds like it. The second commandment says you shall make no graven image of anything in heaven or earth or under the earth or in the sea.

Then it says and you shall not bow down to it and worship that. Now, making graven images is something God actually commanded Israel to do. Moses was commanded to make a graven image of a bronze snake on one occasion.

Even when they made the tabernacle, they were to make gold images of cherubim, which are images of something in heaven, and to embroider cherubim on the curtains of the tabernacle. So God actually commanded those things. So obviously when he said you shall not make any graven image, he didn't mean that full stop. He meant don't make any graven images and bow down to them.

Don't bow down to anything other than God. So to make an image and bow down to it and worship it would be a violation of that command. Simply to make an image can't be a violation of it, or else God would have violated it himself or commanded the violation of it in having them make the cherubim and the bronze serpent and so forth. So that, I would say, no, it's not necessarily wrong to make statues. Now, if you make a statue of Abraham Lincoln or of George Washington, and you more or less in your heart venerate it or worship it or think it's a sacrilege to damage it, then maybe you are venerating a statue more than you should. Maybe that statue should come down, but I don't think there's anything wrong with respecting somebody enough to honor them with a portrait or a statue or something like that. And I think that those who are tearing them down are not the least bit interested in what Exodus has to say.

I think they're tearing them down because they're trying to destroy the country altogether. So that answer is a no from me. Now, as far as Jesus saying not to swear oaths, this is something we have to understand in the context of the people he was talking to and the culture he was talking to. In those days, people took an oath to verify something that they were solemnly agreeing to.

Today, we would require a signature on a contract because we don't trust anyone, even if they take oaths, and rightly so. I mean, married couples always take oaths to be loyal to each other, and half of them divorce each other. So obviously, our oaths are not worth much. And that was true, becoming true, in Israel too because the Pharisees had made up a system of oaths by which they could say, I took this oath but it wasn't a binding one. Jesus talks about this in Matthew 23. If you took an oath by the temple, they didn't consider it binding. If you took an oath by the gold of the temple, they said it was binding. So Jesus said, just throw out the whole system.

It's a corrupted system. Just be honest. Just let your yes be yes, and let your no be no, and don't mess with the oaths because that whole system has become another way of deceiving in the hands of the Pharisees. So that's why he forbid it.

That's why James said, if you go beyond this and fall into this oath system, it comes from the evil one. Hey, I need to take a break. We have another half hour coming up. Don't go away.

You're listening to The Narrow Path. My name is Steve Gregg. Our website is thenarrowpath.com, and I'll be back in 30 seconds. Thanks for joining us.

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Thank you for sharing. Listeners supported The Narrow Path with Steve Gregg. Welcome back to The Narrow Path radio broadcast. My name is Steve Gregg, and we have another half hour ahead taking your calls.

If you have questions about the Bible or the Christian faith, or if you have a difference of opinion from the host and want a balanced comment, feel free to give me a call right now. As I said at the beginning of the program a half hour ago, our lines are full. They keep getting full.

We use them up. We talk to these callers, open a line up, and then someone calls and fills it. Right now that's what's happened. If you want to call, you can. In a few minutes you might find a line has opened again. The number to call is 844-484-5737. That's 844-484-5737. Our next caller today is Paul from Oakland, California.

Paul, welcome to The Narrow Path. Thanks for calling. Hi, Steve. Can you hear me? Yes, sir. All right.

Two quick questions. Just the first one is, do you think that using, say, subliminal or hypnosis in the context of, say, removing really bad habits or phobias that have been with you for a long time, is that against Christianity? I mean, not saying using hypnosis or subliminal to get money or wealth or anything, but just say to overcome, you know, maybe years of issues that a person had.

Is that evil or demonic? Well, I have to say that I have no experience with hypnosis, and I don't know what the experience is of a person who's under hypnosis. I know that hypnosis is used to help people quit smoking and things like that. I know some psychologists use it, and it is my opinion that probably for some it actually works. Now, you're asking a different question, not does it work.

That would be the pragmatic question. The real question is, is it right? Is it something that is consistent with Christianity?

Now, that's more questionable. I don't know the answer for sure, but I will say it is not a biblical solution to sin problems. The whole purpose of the Christian faith is to overcome the power of sin in your life through the power of God. That's what Jesus died for.

It says He died to save His people from their sins. Some people think He came to save them from the penalty of their sins merely, but He actually came to not just save us from the penalty of our sins, but from our sins themselves. Jesus said that anyone who lives in sin is a slave of sin, and He said, therefore, if the Son shall set you free, you shall be free indeed. So, He wants us to be free from the slavery of sin. Of course, some people do go to psychologists, psychiatrists, you know, self-help type groups, 12-step programs, hypnotists, and so forth to overcome things in their life that maybe they'll call them addictions or something else, but they're really sinned. I mean, the things they're trying to get over are sins in their lives. And the question is, is this the solution to the sin problem that the Bible presents and recommends?

The answer to that would be no. Now, it's a secondary question. Is it evil? Is it demonic?

Or whatever. I don't know enough about hypnosis to know whether it is demonic or not. I wouldn't choose it myself, because I think that if I want to solve a biblical problem, I want to follow a biblical means to doing so. If there was some other way to defeat sin, then through the power of God and the death of Jesus and the resurrection of Christ and the Holy Spirit, then Jesus wouldn't have had to come. I mean, if hypnosis would do it or something else, if the goal is simply to defeat some bad habits, and you can do that through any number of ways that don't include Jesus, then I'm not really sure why Jesus even had to come.

And that's what Paul says. He said, if salvation were through works, then Christ died for nothing. If there was anything that really got the results God wanted that did not involve Jesus, then it was a horrible waste on God's part to come and have Jesus suffer as much as He did. I personally think that all the solutions to our character problems and sin problems are found in the gospel and in Christ.

Now, I don't say that all Christians have found that solution, because I think many Christians probably haven't really found Christ in the sense that they're supposed to. Many people who come to Christ do so with a great deal of hesitation or holding back. Maybe their faith is not very fully—it might be a little, I don't know, sketchy.

They're not sure if they believe, but they're kind of trying to believe. But in the early church, true conversion and true walking in the Spirit, which is what Christians did, was seen as that which delivered them from the power of sin in their lives that had captivated them before. Paul said in 1 Corinthians 6, beginning at verse 9, he says, Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived? Neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor homosexuals nor sodomites nor thieves nor covetous nor drunkards nor revilers nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God, and such were some of you.

But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. A lot of Christian teachers feel that in place of the word addiction, we should use the word idolatry. A person who's controlled by some substance, let's just say if it's not a physical control, obviously your body can become physically addicted to alcohol so that you can't really, if you do stop, you're going to go through some physiological problems. There are some addictions that become physical or physiological that you might, in some cases, need some medication to go through the DTs or something.

You know, I don't know what the solution is for those. But if it's not a physical thing, if it's simply that you just can't stop doing something because you want to do it or you're craving it or whatever, those are the kind of things that Paul lists here that his readers had formerly been. It even talks about sexual misbehavior. It talks about drunkards, which we would, certainly Paul would call an alcoholic or drunkard. And this is how his readers, who were pagans before he converted them, were living.

They were messed up. And yet he says, you are cleansed now, not by, frankly, not by going through a 12-step program or hypnosis or anything like that. He said, you're cleansed because you were sanctified.

You're justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. Paul said in Galatians 5 16, walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Now, most people who are going to, let's say, a hypnotist or someone else to overcome a persistent problem in their life, that persistent problem would fall in the category of works of the flesh, whether it's drugs, alcohol, anger, any number of things, what they call sex addiction or porn addiction. These are nothing else but works of the flesh. And Paul said, if you walk in the Spirit, you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. That is, walking in the Spirit is the Christian solution to these things. And yet walking in the Spirit is not the easiest thing in the world because there's no spiritual warfare we're involved in. And we have to really be, frankly, all in, all in committed to living the holy life and trusting in God and being filled with the Spirit.

And this is, frankly, it's a full-time life. It's not just what you do on Sundays. It's not what you do when you, you know, remember to have, you know, morning devotions or something.

This is a whole life commitment to, I'm going to be committed to, filled with, walking in the power of the Holy Spirit. That's what the early Christians did. And when they did, they didn't fulfill the lust of the flesh, which means they didn't have to go to counselors. They didn't have to go to 12 Steps. They didn't have to go to hypnotists. They didn't have to do any of that because God provided, through Christ and through the Holy Spirit, the freedom from these things.

Now, I'm not naive. I know that many people are praying. They're trying very hard to overcome certain sinful things in their lives. And it's not happening for them.

They're not overcoming them as they should. And, you know, they might say, well, Steve, you don't know what it's like to have an addiction. And you're right. I don't. I've never had an addiction. But I'm a sinner. I know what it's like to have sin in my life.

I know what it's like to, you know, be imperfect and to succumb to temptations when I haven't wanted to. It's just a matter of degree. And I'm sure that a person who's, they would say, addicted, is bound in a much greater degree than I have ever personally experienced. But it's not a different in kind.

It's a different in degree. And God is powerful. And Paul listed these things these people were bound up in before and said, you know, they're now free. Christ has made them free. The Holy Spirit has made them free. Jesus said, if you continue in my words, then you're my disciples indeed.

And you'll know the truth and the truth will make you free. So, if I find that, you know, I have sins in my life that I'm not really conquering as I should, I'm going to blame myself for that. Because Jesus said, if I continue in his words, and Paul said, if I walk in the Spirit, well, both of them promise I'm going to be free from this. I'm not going to be fulfilling the lust of the flesh.

So, I frankly blame myself for my failures. But I don't live in condemnation over it because we're under grace. And the grace of God itself helps us in our time of weakness. But we have to be totally focused on Christ. We have to be totally focused on God.

And that's not an impossible thing. It is impossible for someone who's not really converted. You know, someone who really went forward or raised their hand when they were just told, you know, if you accept Jesus in your heart, you'll go to heaven when you die. And they didn't have any sense that they were surrendering their whole life to the Lordship of Jesus.

Well, those people, you know, I'm not really sure. I'd call them converted. But they certainly aren't normatively converted if they haven't totally surrendered to Jesus. That's what he demands and nothing less. He said, all authority in heaven and earth is given to me. Well, that means he's the boss over everything in heaven and earth. If you're not dealing with that, if you've got something else calling the plays in your life, then you haven't really, in a sense, surrendered totally, it seems to me, to Christ's Lordship. If you do, he'll give you power. But you have to every day recognize I'm owned. I'm not my own.

I've been bought with a price. I'm a slave of God and God is my rescuer and my Savior and my Lord and King. I mean, that's got to be a reality, not just words that someone speaks.

If it's not a reality, then there's a full surrender that remains to be made. And I'm not saying that if you make that full surrender, you'll immediately have no temptation or immediately have total victory. I know some people who got totally saved. They were totally committed to Christ.

It's a married couple who'd been smoking a couple packs of cigarettes a day all since they were teenagers and they were about 30 at the time. And they got saved and they really wanted to quit smoking and they didn't find it easy. It took them two years to quit, but they were determined to quit and they were determined to follow Christ and they finally got over it.

So it's not always the case that such victories occur without protracted battle. But if you're committed to Christ, you've got the rest of your life to become perfected. Two years feels a long time while you're going through it, but these people are looking back now and that was like a blip in their Christian life and it's a small thing. God is not impatient and He's not shocked when you fail.

You should see the things He sees every day that people do all around the world. He's not shocked when you fall back into your sin, but He's not pleased either. He's not pleased that we sin. But He's patient and if you're walking faithfully with Him, trusting Him, seeking to be filled with the Spirit and obedient, well then I believe that over time, and it may not be as long as you fear that it will be, you'll find that these habits are dropping away because you are changed from glory to glory into the image of Christ, the Bible says. So I think sometimes people use hypnosis and psychology and psychiatric drugs and other things for a quick fix, which would kind of get rid of the troublesome aspects of their sinful life, when in fact the real thing they need is to be totally surrendered to Christ.

And it won't be a quick fix necessarily. It may be that it'll take a while, but if you're following Christ for your life and for eternity, you've got a while. I mean, you need to keep fighting the good fight. You need to, you know, we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principles and powers. So we're in a warfare zone for our whole life. And that's what we're signing up for. It's like if someone signs up to be in the Army or in the Marines during wartime.

You know, they're kind of expecting this is going to, there's going to be some challenges here, but they think it's worth it and they're going to fight the enemy until they defeat it. That's what I think Christians need to be really prepared to do. I don't know how well that's fitting whatever it is you're facing right now, but that in general, I believe is what the Bible teaches. Now, is hypnosis demonic? It might be. I don't know that it is. Some people think it is. It's something I have no firsthand knowledge of. So I can't really say, but I know it's not. I know it is not the solution that God has given in the Bible for these things.

And I would rather trust God's methods and solutions than man's. Let's talk to Terry from Buckeye, Washington, Buckley, Washington. Sorry about that. Hi, Terry. Hello. Can you hear me okay? Yes, sir.

Yeah, almost a perfect segue, I guess. My question is I've been struggling with my marriage. I've been married for 28 years now.

I got baptized about four years ago now. I truly believe that I am a Christian. I mean, I know I am. I mean, there's true joy that comes with it every single day. But my wife is not.

You know, I've been called the hypocrite. Our entire 27 years, 28 years of marriage has been a struggle to begin with. About seven years ago, we were blessed with another child.

So we have a 27-year-old, a 23-year-old, and Tanner, a seven-year-old. To me, he's been this little drop of glue that's brought our family back together. And at the same time, it's a strained relationship. Terry, I have to say, your phone is kind of breaking up, but I followed your story, I think, adequately.

What is it you'd like from me? So I've talked to my pastor about divorce, and I understand that Jesus hates divorce, and I understand that. But when it affects a child the way it does, there's nothing physical that's going on in the house or anything, but it's an argument that doesn't get taken out of the garage or away from him.

The other half doesn't care. Okay, I'm going to have to put you on hold because you can't hear me when I'm speaking to you. You've been a Christian for about four years, I think I heard you say, and your wife, I think you're saying.

I'm not asking you to justify a divorce or anything like that. Can you hear me? No, I don't think so. Apparently not. Okay, I'm putting you on hold again. Apparently you're not aware I'm speaking. So I'm putting you on hold so that at least the audience can hear me.

Maybe you'll hear if you listen to the program later. It sounds like you're a Christian, a fairly recent convert, who's married to a non-Christian, and the Bible does say some things about that. And frankly, Paul in 1 Corinthians 7 makes a distinction between the obligations of married people who are both Christians on the one hand and those who are not both Christians on the other. He says that Christians who are married have no business getting divorced, and if they have separated, they need to get back together again or remain single. But to the Christian who's married to a non-Christian, Paul says in 1 Corinthians 7 verses 12 through 15, that the believer should not initiate a divorce. The believer should stay in a difficult marriage. But if the unbeliever decides to depart and abandon the marriage, the believer does not have to feel like divorce is not an option. If your wife is not a Christian and she won't live with you anymore and she leaves, then divorce is apparently an option for you. Paul says the brother or sister is not under bondage in such cases.

But I will say this. Having a seven-year-old child, you say, well, it's really hard on the child for your marriage to be the way it is. Statistically, it's even harder on children when people separate. Almost all children of divorces, when there are surveys taken and so forth and research done, say they would rather that their parents had stayed together even if they were not happily married.

Someone might say, that's selfish to the kid. Why can't the parents find a happy marriage? Well, because happiness is not the purpose of life.

The purpose of life is to lay down your life for others. And especially when you have children, you have to lay down your life for your children. And I have to say, I spent 20 years in a very difficult marriage. It never occurred to me to divorce because I don't believe in divorce at all. But my wife left the family and I could do nothing about it.

I tried to stop it. But I would have stayed in that marriage though it was difficult and might not have ever gotten any easier. But the divorce was very, very harmful to my children.

And it almost always is statistically. Now, a lot of people justify a divorce by saying, well, we are always fighting. It's not a pleasant home situation. It's better for the children not to see us fight, so we're going to separate. That's not what the children want. The children want you to stop fighting.

The children want you to start learning to love each other. And that's what your obligation is as a Christian. It's your wife's obligation too, but if she's not a Christian, you can't be sure that she will do it because she might not care what her Christian obligation is.

But you do. So I think all I can say, and I really would have gotten, I'd give a more nuanced answer probably if I got more detail, but I couldn't get you to listen to me and I had to put you on hold, so I didn't hear your whole story. But from what you told me, I'd say you really need to stay with your wife until such a time if she decides I'm not staying with you anymore. I can't stand living with a Christian man anymore. If she leaves, well, then you don't have to stay in that marriage. But you should at least wish for the marriage to succeed and for your marriage to become a better environment for your children.

Sometimes things happen you can't control. But as much as lies in you, Paul says, live at peace with everyone if possible. If your wife won't live at peace with you, well, you're not responsible for her doing that. She's a responsible agent before God, too. And if she destroys your marriage, well, I mean, there's not much consolation in saying, well, she has to answer to God for it because your marriage is still destroyed.

But there are tragedies all Christians go through, and I've been through one or more. So, I would say you need to work on that marriage. And if your wife won't work on it, then of course you've got to decide whether, you know, she wants to stay in the marriage. She's got to decide that. If she does, then you can just be a loving husband and lay down your life for her as a Christian is supposed to do and suffer the lack of reciprocal love from your wife. Just think how much God has had to suffer the lack of reciprocal love from Israel when He loved Israel and they worshiped other gods, other demons and so forth. And frankly, the church has sometimes gone into idolatry and displeased Him, too, but He stayed faithful.

God is faithful, and we need to reflect God's faithfulness in our marriages to our wives. So, you said you're not looking for an excuse to get divorced, but I couldn't get from you really what it was you were asking for me, so I'm just answering the situation as best I heard it from you. I appreciate your call, and I'm sorry for your situation, very sorry for your situation.

I can actually feel your pain, honestly, because I've been there. Let's talk to Joyce from Bothell, Washington. Joyce, welcome to The Narrow Path. Thanks for calling. Hi, Steve. Thank you so much.

Hi. My question is about heaven and where we go the minute after we die. I believe that we go immediately to be with Jesus in heaven, whether it's spiritual. I don't know how that is, but I have a family member who believes he's a believer but does not believe we're in heaven. In fact, doesn't think there's anyone in heaven right now, but we're waiting. He believes he'll sleep until Christ comes back and then put on the imperishable, so 1 Thessalonians 4.13 and then 1 Corinthians 15.

Yeah. Well, I mean, there are two views in your family, and they are the two views that exist in the church. One is the view that when you die, your soul is essentially either nonexistent or at least unconscious until the end of the age when Jesus comes back and raises the dead, and then you wake up.

You've been kind of asleep. That doctrine is called soul sleep. Some people who hold it don't like to call it that, but that's the official name for it, the idea that when you die, you're not aware of anything until the resurrection comes.

And even if that's 100 years from now, you're not aware of the passage of time, so what's it matter to you? I mean, subjectively, it's not any worse because if you just die and next thing you know you're awake and Jesus has come, that's not a bad deal, but that's not what I think the Bible teaches. I think the Bible teaches that when we die, our spirits do leave our bodies. Paul talked about being absent from the body, and if he can be absent from his body, then he is not his body. His body is something he lives in, and he can be there or not be there, just like I can be in my home or not in my home. And Paul says we can be absent from our body when we die, and he refers to that as being present with the Lord. Now, some people say, well, we're present with the Lord, but we're not conscious. God sort of just takes care of our sleeping soul until the resurrection, but that's not the impression I get from, say, reading the book of Revelation where John sees the souls of those who've been slain under the altar, saying, how long, O Lord, before you avenge those who've shed our blood?

They don't seem to be asleep. Of course, that is symbolic, but it still tells us, I mean, that's the image we get. We don't have any alternative image. I personally believe, and frankly, most Christians do, though there are some who hold the alternate view, that our spirit does go to be with the Lord, as you said, and then when Jesus comes, he brings us back with him to be joined with our bodies, which never went anywhere except into the ground and to the dust. When we die, our bodies go to the dust, but we don't. We go to be with the Lord, and when we come back with him, our bodies are reconstituted, resurrected, glorified, the Bible says, and that being so, we are, you know, put back into them, and that's where we live forever. Paul said in 1 Thessalonians chapter 4 and verse 14, he said, for if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, God will bring with him those who sleep in Jesus. Sleep in Jesus is his euphemism for who have died in Jesus. Those who have died in Jesus, he'll bring with him when he raises the dead, and as Paul goes on a few verses later, he talks about the dead in Christ shall rise and so forth. I'm sorry to say I'm out of time, but there are two views, and Christians can hold either one of them, but I believe the Bible favors the view that we go immediately to be with the Lord, and then we rise physically in the resurrection, and we will live it. We will no longer be absent from the body. We'll be present in our bodies again. Sorry I'm out of time. You've been listening to The Narrow Path radio broadcast.

My name is Steve Gregg. We are listeners supported if you'd like to write to us. The address is The Narrow Path, P.O. Box 1730, Temecula, California, 92593, or you can do so from our website, though everything there is free. The website is thenarrowpath.com. Thanks for joining us.