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The Narrow Path 8/11

The Narrow Path / Steve Gregg
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August 11, 2020 8:00 am

The Narrow Path 8/11

The Narrow Path / Steve Gregg

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August 11, 2020 8:00 am

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Welcome to the narrowcast radio broadcast Steve Greg or live for an hour each weekday afternoon, taking your calls if you have questions about the Bible about the Christian faith, feel free to give me a call you'll find right now. The phone lines are full but I'll give you the number anyway because they do clear during the course of the hour, so you'll find lines are opening up in the course of the hour. If you call it the right time to get one open number is 844-484-5737 that number again is 844-484-5737 first color today is Robert Conley from Tulsa, Oklahoma. Robert welcome to the neuropathic for calling all hello how are you doing fine thanks RA so I keep in and right now I'm kind of theologically agnostic on it by my first question and a future restoration for Israel like Wayne be. Why would God. She then specifically in the Old Testament to bring about new covenant promises. Well, I mean you have to realize that is what God chosen for and those New Testament promises have happened. So that would not have any impact on whether there's a future for Israel and you know I mean if you target the future restoration. I don't know that they have even connected with the with the premise returned. I agree with your premise that God chose Israel to bring about the new covenant promises that is to bring the Messiah into the world so he would institute the new covenant, and they have 4014 ski 1400 years of Israel as a nation to do that and they did mission accomplishment brought forth the Messiah into the world and when that happened, of course, their obligation was the same as every other nation's obligation that is to receive the Messiah and of course because Israel was at most times in her history, apostate, including the time when Jesus came and they engineered his crucifixion.

For the most part only the faithful remnant really of Israel came into the Messiah's kingdom, but an Gentiles of coming also.

But any Jew can any Jew who wants to can come into the size kingdom, but that doesn't but that's been true for 2000 years, and it doesn't really have any bearing on like a future land-based restoration. Your your premise interconnection between those things are not saved.

What would you want to clarify, I nation states she why she Israel when he chose Abraham and promised to do something through him into his seat so Israel, the nation wasn't really very much more righteous than other nations, they did have the law, and there were times when they were serious about keeping it, but there's also generations and centuries of their history where they weren't interested in keeping it so they were just as bad as the nations around them, so I mean I don't know that God had another choice available to choose as a more righteous nation that they were not particularly righteous, but I don't think any competitors were either Abraham was righteous because of his faith in God and God made promises to him and to Isaac and Jacob and to Judah. His Jacob son into David Judas offering that the Messiah would come through them.

So I don't I don't think we have any reason to know exactly why God would choose Israel or JR should say Abraham over anyone else, but he did and he found in Abraham, a loyal person. It just wasn't the case with all of Abrams Osprey. I thank you for that. My question is been having a hard time understanding what the already not yet hermeneutic I get something progressive and fake snow. You know when I've tried to watch her lead material from them. I haven't really heard them clarify clearly what buyback yeah will progressive dispensationalism does use the expression already, not yet, that they're not the only ones who do their other non-dispensations who use the term what it means it's referring to certain things in God's program. There is an ultimate fulfillment of the purposes of God. When the earth will be renewed where you know every knee bows in return confesses that Jesus is Lord, to the glory of God the father where the curse is removed that's that's the ultimate that's the not yet part of the promises of God.

However, the Bible says that God has inaugurated the kingdom in Jesus. Now, and that there are people who bow to him and and confessing as Lord and who are part of his kingdom now already.

Now the kingdom is not in its final stage because it's not universal yet II like to liken it to David's kingdom. When David was anointed king in his father's house when he was young he was now king.

He was the king of Israel, but nobody knew it. And Saul was looking at what else that was the king but but God had taken the spirit from Saul given it to David so David is now the true King only a few people recognize it when Saul persecuted David about 400 people follow David and endured persecution with him. Later, the group grew to several hundred more, but the point is still a very small remnant of of the population recognize the true King David's kingdom existed.

As soon as he was king and as soon as he had people following him. That's his kingdom, but the time came after Saul's death when there were no more rival kings for David. He was that he was made the University acclaimed King of Israel, and so David's kingdom was already as soon as God anointed. But but the universal recognition of his king was not yet until Saul died. Similarly, Jesus from the time he was anointed and the Holy Spirit came upon them, and God said this is my son, in whom are more pleased. The Messiah had come. The king was on you and on the ground and and people be ended. Follow him just like the 400 who follow David the disciples of Jesus began to follow him and still do and and so were in that phase of the kingdom that has already come, but it's certainly not the ultimate phase that had been promised to Jesus. So there's a progressive development and there is a phase that is already true.

And there's another phase to come. That's not yet met for is usually meant by already and not yet. I thank you for clarifying about that simpler and I would linking an activity complex. Thank you for your call. I have a good day.

Thanks for joining us compass all right. We talk next to John from Oregon city, Oregon John, welcome to the neuropathic for calling you all like questionable to you is his current project. A good prayer project. I requested that we your business and you would pray that God will inspire our church and national national leadership to declare a season of United prayer and fasting worldwide that and I hope the listeners might have a encourager to and so that's what I'm praying for on the course we could shoot good great that may be later okay because I think you okay Preston from big Bear Lake, California.

Welcome to the narrow path I see hi, I do have a question but comment first quickly.

We were at Calvary Chapel.

The very same time 1970 through a few years, in the 73 I was very involved with their camping ministry and I just wonder if you have to be around doing any of that. You mean opted to Twin Peaks or up or opted to Idlewild or where I yeah yeah I went to Idlewild at least one time maybe twice for coverages. Would you member the mountain and climbed the big tree. I'm not sure I remember that was 50 years was that you okay and I can't really say I remember. I wish I could say so I think you would 18 years old that time in 73 and 70 and 73 I was 20. I was born in 53 might be a little old for All you are the kids can know I was in the adult covered camp. Okay, that would make sense yeah my question.

Could you speak a little bit on the convergence sure you got specific questions on what I guess I'm more concerned with people I see and observe in the church that I carefully hope they are falling into the foolish virgins category they could meet Jesus for you pretty strongly against them and yet they were all virgin know whether okay lobby guides our glacier first on the fact that they were virgins is not an emphasis on their purity of the virginal virginal nature but rather they are the bridesmaids and the bridesmaids were young women are virgins like the bride herself was that they were her bridesmaids and so some some translations and renders it bridesmaids because that's the function merits the I've heard people mistakenly think because they are virgins that they're going to meet the bridegroom in order to be his harem or some like that and they just him at all and understand the custom custom was that the bride is at her home in the right was at his home with his friends and the wedding is coming soon but no one knows exactly when, but finally the bridegroom ends his bachelor party brings his friends with him to bride's house to marry her. Now the bride in order that she might not be taken by surprise sends out bridesmaids friends of hers virgin girls like yourself who are to watch for the bridegroom and to accompany him to the wedding and to make a big noise so that everyone knows it's happening so these are the these 10 women that Jesus speaks about and in Matthew 25 and he talks with the 10 virgins or 10 bridesmaids now course for going out to meet the bridegroom. But they don't know what is going to come. They have lamps which is how you would like your way after dark. In those days, and they were oil lamps. Now the lamps have oil in them but only a limited supply and it says that there were five virgins who took extra oil and there were five the did not bring extra oil.

The foolish ones did not bring extra of the five wise once did.

Now I realize a lot of people try to put lots of meeting on every detail.

This including the fact that the bride, the bride slept through the bridesmaids slept and were awakened up by the call, the bridegroom comes. Also, the idea that oil is sometimes an image for the Holy Spirit, and so some say that you some of these people were filled in spirit.

Some were not. I think the main idea here isn't specifically connected to those details, but rather the general idea was that these women did not know how long they had to wait they they had to stay on watch until the bridegroom came, now the five foolish ones figured well hope it comes well. I haven't enough oil in my lamp because I don't have any. After that, and their candid assuming he wouldn't take very long.

The other bridesmaids who took extra oil are represent people who knew he might take a long time. They don't know what is coming, but there prepared in case it's a long wait and and so what happened of course was that the bridesmaids who didn't have actual were not already for his coming and because it was a long which I think there's something implied in the parable to that the bridegroom could be maybe his connubial weight. You wait longer than you might expect that he's not coming back right away, necessarily, and you'd better be prepared to remain faithful and on on your post in case it is a long way and that's what bringing extra oil simply the bridesmaids who took extra oil once who had the good sense to know I don't have any guarantees is coming soon, so I better have some plenty of oil on hand in case it's a longer with her. I think so. I think that the basic message of the parable is that when Jesus left. He didn't tell us how long it will be and sometimes people think it's can be really soon so they go out there ready to meet Jesus, but in the this would mean their serving Jesus there at their poster for doing what he told them to do but but the fact that he waits longer than they think means they are no longer prepared for him and and this I mean you are covered Chapel in the early 70s.

You know how many people you know came forward. Altar calls because they were told that the raptors can happen in the next few weeks or thanks and you know because they didn't expect a long wait a lot of more prepared to be followers of Jesus as Lumsden have to go on too long, but when it turned out to be a longer wait than they thought. Many of these people fell away and they would be like the five foolish virgins who had not anticipated or prepared for a long way.

I know that I know that when I was 16 and started going to covered Chapel and was hearing from from all the people preaching there that Jesus is coming back in the next couple years of the latest I many others who were young fatwa made, we should get married.

Maybe we should have children. Maybe we should go to college. Maybe you shouldn't buy any green bananas.

You know there's there's not much time right left should make any commitments for the long-term and and I know that as the years went by a lot of the people who came forward. Altar calls. Years later, were no longer walk with Jesus. Now some of them have come back to Jesus now got to say but there are some were lost. I mean I know a couple of them who fell away and died of overdoses are not coming back. And so so I mean I think the idea is when you come to Jesus and you you're on duty for Christ and his kingdom. You better be prepared for the long haul. It may be a longer wait than you think and I think that's the message of the parable. That's what I thought that I was hoping it didn't mean that those may be Christian away are the world. Yeah, I think we would have to be the I think we have to assume they were a problem, they were Christians because they initially reroute watching for the bridegroom so they were on duty out there on duty for the bride and and and watching for his coming in a with eagerness, but because income is not eventually ran out of oil and and were ready when he came.

Now I want everybody to be ready. Thank you sir. Okay person, you get 150 years ago we were there together and 70 and that only think of the well you are you are one of the thousands in the crowd and so was I so we might've seen each other and talking with you the big tent yes I was there before big tent. I was there in the little chapel and and then in the 10th. I was actually I was asked asked. I was actually very loud Christian band called new wine but we rarely played at Calvary Chapel Leeward. We were different style. Most most the bands were more Crosby stills Nash and Young style, and we were a lot more like bright extra something that wasn't my choice. I'm not. I'm not a great musician and we had guitars were pretty good in men who like the music anyway. So we played it. We played a big tent. Once on Thanksgiving concert were a bunch of other men split but we played we usually played coffee houses and parks and college substance that Lance could talk to present. Thank you for your call Brenda Rogers to keep the oil all right. Let's talk to Craig from Yorba Linda, California Craig, welcome to the neuropathic signaling hi there Steve, you know, I have discovered a few different ministers or churches in this area where the ministers say every week I forgive you of all your sins they make the congregation say something then he says that maybe they say the same thing every week and I don't like this idea of some minister just automatically automatically pronouncing forgiveness of all students for each person while at the coming of the congregation to sell back and we forgive you for yours. You, the truth is the truth is we are supposed to forgive each other but but it's a strange thing for a but that usually means if someone does something against us. I can't forgive you for all the sins you've ever committed. I can forgive you for since you've committed against me, but he's probably pastors in these cases are probably influenced by the Roman Catholic notion that when Jesus said that other churches to have discovered that there forgiveness for the people is okay now that I sent your clean to go to heaven and I don't mind that idea.

Another doesn't seem to be any scripture behind that I know. I think they may be basing it on Jesus statement and in Luke and John chapter 23 said to the disciples, whosoever sends you remit. They are committed to service and retain the retained which is what the Catholics used to suggest that the Catholic priests are able to forgive or not forgive sins but the truth is the same. It was only made to the apostles and it's not even clear exactly what it meant, but it certainly didn't mean that that the parties got her hand over over masses of people through your sins are forgiven you go to heaven.

It is something the more complex and that I don't know why these pastors do it, I guess so I guess that that way they can claim everyone in her condition is one of the conference. Hey we got this many people save this week be a pretty big number for some of that looks good on a resume. What I was reading the laws of one of their denomination as he is supposed to do it. God himself, yet without strength is very strange. I mean that it is very strange, but I want to talk to these fellows that say Mr. leader you cannot do that and he will start recording as we talk about the Scripture and John were said by forgive people, then the forgiven, but what time asking and doesn't work for you too if you if you forgive people can does that work he might say will notice another pastor. I'm not sure what else they might say yeah all of you should all Christian should not do that but we have the whole world saved in half a week because we just go wherever there's lot of people and say I forgive y'all, I don't think I don't think that we are the ones that people need to be forgiven by I think we need to forgive for our own heart sake and for our relation with God.

We need to forgive people, but people don't need to be forgiven by me and be forgiven by God now to say well I'm in God's place and I can speak for him and say, your sins are forgiven. Well, Jesus didn't do that to anyone, God is never done that to anyone, so why would I think that I could do it for God work. Where is God in the Bible ever saying I just forgive everybody just like right now in Jesus specifically talked about the Republican and the Pharisee in the temple. He said that the public and went home justified and the Pharisee did not so Jesus could instead of condemning the Pharisees, you just you and I forgive y'all, but that's forgiveness and restoration to relation with God cannot happen without some agreeable change coming about in the hearts of the people that are forgiven.

For one thing, they need to want to be forgiven and they need to want to be forgiven on God's terms, which to my mind as I understand it the reason I need to forgive her you do if I'm not a Christian and I am a Christian.

So the Strattera non-Christians reason a non-Christian history forgiveness because God has a kingdom he's a king and they're not obeying him there in that they belong to him because all authority in heaven and earth belongs to Christ, so he is their Lord and King but they are not acknowledging their rebels. There disorders their AWOL and and they need to be restored to their proper place under the king that is in submission to the but in order to do that they have to receive amnesty for their their criminal desertion so the way I see it, God is the King. He wants everyone to submit he wants him to repent of the Bible says and he will forgive all who do because they in order for them to become obedient subjects of the King.

They need to receive amnesty, but you don't give amnesty to someone who hasn't returned and doesn't want to be in under your authority and pastor has no idea what's in the hearts of any of the people of the congregation you might know some of them well enough, but but if it's any considerable size, he doesn't know where the hearts are of all the people or so of course he's not in a position anyone in Christ was to forgive everybody sins right on the spot without any knowledge of what's going on in them. Okay. Thank you all right I got my ship could talk to Craig. All right, let's see here taught in Pennsylvania.

Good to hear from you call her here. I guess you mentioned rethinking about Original Sin and things like that and maybe you'll be able to elaborate, not because when I walk through.

Like the first five chapters of Romans. I really struggle to see the light. When Paul says that Christ died for the ungodly enrollment, five, six, and that all sinned and fall short of the glory of God in 323 etc. that he's talking about children.

Newborns even aborted babies or things like that and trying to apply to nature to you know Romans Romans one through five right never see Christ dying for sin nature.

They fear Christ to die for and on but never for sin nature and behavior that you see in the first chapter of Romans one the indictment against ungodliness and unrighteousness to be very specific to praxis behavior that, when applied to babies in Newport, so I'm wondering like how you read that you are you still reading that as indictment that all have sinned, meaning number four in the morning when there are no no no no, I've never believe that it means that all have sinned, even at birth or in the womb. In my whole life and never believe that even though I was fairly in Orthodox schools. There is the view that Augustine taught that Original Sin means that babies and sister conceived are guilty of Adam's sin and therefore they are lost. I've never accepted that view because the Bible doesn't teach it anywhere that the Bible teaches that the child will not be held responsible for his father since Saul child so we would not be helpers possible for the sins of the father, 100 generations removed, but I do believe there's a case to be made that when a baby is born. That baby has a nature that inclines toward sin.

That's not something that anyone is punished for not punished for your nature punished for your actions. I would never read that God punishes us for what we are so much as for what we've done, we need to be forgiven for what we've done, not for what were born.

Now you know if you if you have a you get a baby wolf. You know that that baby wolf is going to be aggressive. Hunter you will build a trusted around your sheep and things like that but you don't blame it for that, you realize, as a nature of a certain sort that you can't trust but you don't punish it for what it hasn't done many like punished me like syllable to keep her from doing later damage but it's not its fault that it's that way and God doesn't hold children at fault for being born the way they are. Hey, I'm I need take a break. I'll be back in just a few seconds to keep the over there listening to the narrow path all right again to nearly half that leads to life into the narrow path.

Steve grand has nothing to me today but everything to give you the radio show is over. Go to the narrow path.com you can study and enjoy the three topical audio teaching blog article teachings and archives of the narrow path radiation.

Thank you for supporting the listeners to put in here and have great when the narrow path.com's back to the narrow path radio broadcast Steve Greg and we are live for another half-hour taking your calls. If you have questions about the Bible of the Christian faith are aligns with full right now but I will give you the number of your call later in the half-hour. It may be that line will opened up the numbers 844-484-5737 is 844-484-5737 now just before the break, I was talking to Todd from Pennsylvania and were talking about the doctrine of original sin and any obviously Todd does not initially follow the Augustinian view of Original Sin, and neither do I but I do. I do still hold to the idea that people are born with an inclination to sin. I don't consider the inclinations are born with are your fault, or that God punishes you for the most likely saying you know a baby wolf has done no harm until it does harm. It's got that in his nature.

It's got that one your with an inclination to think that you don't signal the time would not be the same as saying on the flipside that you are born without a sin nature, and that you you will sin at times contributed entire for me to think through the complicated thing for the human nature and because of the sin around you because you know other people can entice you to sin. That's the reason you sin sin nature to me that the concept of being born to make sure you don't always sin, but your inclined at certain times to me seemed no different than you're born with the sinless nature and yet you sin, but sometimes or if you were born with a hybrid sin nature and for me over complicating something that I don't expressly in enrollment 512 and following chapter, but right you may be right. You know I don't.

Romans five doesn't specifically mention this. It does say through one man test center of the world, and death through sin, and the goes on save so death passed all men, because all sinned, but it doesn't say they sin because of Adam. It just says they all did that and Adam brought it into the world, he doesn't say he doesn't make the connection like Augustine did for us, which means it.

There's some connection is my B doesn't tell us what is how that Adam's sin became the cause of all of us. And now there is that Palladian view that Adam sin simply to set a bad example for all his offspring, so everybody followed that bad example. It seems to me, however, very unlikely that if as Pelagius taught if all people are born simply neutral and they just all have to go back. It seems strange that there be 10 billion people live and die and not one of them make the right choices if they were very if there born neutral, there's something that seems to trap people all people into sin.

Now we we could say it's a sin nature if we want to follow traditional ways of talking that we don't have to say it that way because the Bible doesn't.

I agree the Bible doesn't specifically mention the sin nature, but what I what I think we could say in this to be true whether or not we allow that humans are born of the sin nature, so those who are who believe. Traditionally, and those who don't would both be able to, I think, except what I'm about to say and that is that human beings are born with a at least what we might call an animal nature where we have human nature, but we are part of this is animal. We have many of the same needs and drives and instincts as animals have included instinct to eat the instinct to sleep.

The instinct to have sex and and procreate those are things animals do and that people do and they are there built-in urges. God built those in their God put hormones and people and put glands in people and animals that they would seek those things because those things are good.

It's good to eat. It's good. The Bible says God richly gives us all things to enjoy. It's good to sleep. The Bible recommends that in many cases and it's certainly good to procreate.

That was anatomy were told to do so knowing can also nature right, exactly, exactly. I'm I'm I'm I going to miss the point. Okay, so Adam and Eve and all animals have certain things in their nature that are not immoral. They are simply things God built-in their chemically induced drives.

There are things that people do not choose for themselves, but they happen involuntarily. They're not sinful when it went out dog is hungry when a man is hungry when a dog wants to procreate ornamentals forget these are not sinful drives. They are built-in but there's a difference between man and animals and that is that we are made in the image of God to have moral culpability and to also have the responsibility that animals do not have, to obey God by choice and these these drives that animals have and that we have animals can do what they want with them and if they have no culpability because they're not moral beings we are, and if my desire to eat leads me to break up fast when God wants you to fast or to steal food when I'm hungry from someone else or to overeat and engorge myself, and so forth and be a glutton room my health. I mean it if my desire for food which is itself innocent. It can lead me to do things of the Bible forbids people to do same thing with sex. Obviously, the God-given desire for sex has its wonderful holy use in marriage, but but the drive itself doesn't distinguish between in a one sex partner another there something else in man that has to distinguish that something Amanda animals don't have that, can choose to obey God and restrict certain drives just to the proper usage now.

I think this is the thing Adam and Eve walked with God on a daily basis and had his support. They had the date they had very little in the way of temptation and so forth and so they didn't have much interest in sending we know that they were capable of being interested in sitting because when the devil spoke to them and the serpent spoke to them in chapter 3, Eve was responsive to the temptation she saw the food was good fruit is good for food while that's one of the drives people have. She had not fallen yet.

She is not a sinner yet, but she had the same drives people and because of that they were led astray now they were thrown out of the garden so that their offspring didn't get to walk with God in the garden.

They didn't live in a world of very little temptation. They I think that when people are alienated from God and I think the being born outside the garden is a sense of being alienated from you guy you should trust me, I can rent it but you not being a leader from God then means that you've gotten no a motivation. The power to overcome your physical drives.

You need God for that. And so our alienation from God is what makes us I think incapable of ruling are natural drives which are not sinful in themselves, but they they lead us into sinful behavior. If we don't govern them by our spirit being obedient to God not in that sense, people are born with a nature that inclines them to sin, not because the nature is itself necessarily sinful, it might be if you hold the view of sin nature. But what you do or not we all know that with human nature. It will have something of an animal nature within these physical drives and so forth. And without God governing our lives and I think we are born without God governing our lives we we quickly follow our own instincts into forbidden behavior and therefore children are born. That's what I get nature not necessary. The act yet. My own view my own view is that children are born innocent, but I'm I'm open to the view that they may be born with a bent toward sin, but maybe maybe if they're not, it's this other explanation of the incident things the Bible does explain it all. That's interesting that some like Augustine and is mom would think that this like a major doctrine of Scripture where there is actually no explanation of it all. In Scripture, the close thing you have is Romans five verse 12 and following, which is basically the most obscure and confusing passage.

Paul ever wrote on the subject and that's all you have on the subject, but where were you would expect to find is in the story of the fall in Genesis. When God says at me. Okay you send. Here's what the consequences are going to be. He doesn't mention any consequences like your children are to be born corrupt yellow heat.

He just says you know he's Adam Juergen have to work hard and sweat for your living Eve Juergen have pain in childbearing devil on your belly and yet it's interesting, that's the place where you'd expect a doctor like this to be to arrive and it's it's there's not a clue.

Not a clue about it so there's two verses that Augustine used for his his sin nature doctor which he introduced.

One is the one in Romans five. The other is of course Psalm 51 five David said in sin. My mother conceived me, which is by no means an unambiguous statement so I mean if if people are born with this Augustinian idea of sinfulness, then I should seem strange to be a major major doctrine and yet there's one obscure verse and in the Psalms that can be used possibly to support it, although it can be understood except differently I will go to bed now and there's one passage in Paul. The most obscure of all his passages in Romans five and that's the whole case for it, so I do think that Christians have every right to say okay listen were all sinners, no question about it. We've all sin from our youth. There's no question about that. The Bible affirms that what the Bible does not affirm is exactly why we do and for Augustine to give one explanation and for other Christians who don't follow Augustine, who by the way, was not an inspired writer to come up with other theories is at least to consider is no heresy. Its enemies are certainly no shame in rethinking things that Augustine said, when in fact in some record since they don't make a lot of sense, but I don't have much scriptural support. So anyway we got a long time for this.

My hope that that satisfies so you about where I'm at on that okay. Tell God bless you. Thanks for joining us. Okay, let's talk to Chris from New Hampshire, Chris, welcome to the neuropathic for calling. Good on the thing questions one the world today and the way that in my mind.

Experience viewing Christians taking other questions. Actually actually condemning other Christians and not forgiving their enemies. Not loving their enemies how bad this in your view, all the churches you've been queuing all the people you've met your experience been with seeing people whether not they can love their enemies. Well, at first you talk about Christians hating other Christians night, hitting their enemies.

Are you thinking of both Ashley some Christians look the other person's identity.

Then the bad reputation is not like that, that in the past.

They use drugs or alcohol or something in or whatever it may be as basically see a hierarchy.

People sometimes looking down on and even sometimes hating on other people rich people do not view I as I was running the Jesus movement 50 years ago and we never had the luxury of hating anyone who could use drugs or alcohol because almost a whole generation had I actually had not, but I was on the only people I knew who would not use drugs or alcohol, but I knew did and there is no hatred there. Jesus Melissa love people, but Chris ever was in the same boat. Much I typed.

I have seen a little bit of evidence.

I don't know if I call it hatred, but it sounds kinda hateful the way some Christians target other Christians who have the certain theological positions they don't agree with. I there's been some pretty nasty talk by Calvinists against noncoms. In some cases. Now some Calvinists can be there some counter just fine wonderful sweet people, but I have encountered them and I may have encountered a few Arminians who talk that way about Calvinism. Frankie never many same thing with different eschatological views or views of hell or some of these other things. Maybe this last talk I had a previous call about sinful nature and maybe that'll cause some hatred somewhere. I'm not sure why because the Bible does not know where obligates people to hold one viewer another over when everyone in whenever concern is searching the Scripture to find out what the Bible says and they don't agree with the bouncers as they don't agree with each other about what the Bible says there's nobody in the in the pack who's rejecting the Bible is just people who don't see it the same way now. I don't understand how anyone can hate another person for not seeing something the same way, assuming that effort that everybody involved is seen it as honestly as they know how you know if if someone is elaborately trying to obscure the truth that's another story, but it's if everyone involved is trying to seat as honestly and correctly as they can and are just reaching different conclusions.

I hardly see how there's any guilt to compute anyone in that situation wrong so I you know like I don't see I have to say the Christian assemblies.

I know you're on the East Coast. Your New England I'm I'm in college. Yeah, we have the church is pretty loving in Massachusetts Gen. and that is a pretty bad attitude born around the Boston attitude which is somewhat racist sometimes and also other times very, very vindictive and very selfish. You know your style style that they have part of their lifestyle say that in the New England area of the country has had a reputation for long time been resistant to spiritual revival and things like that. I know I first ministered in Massachusetts back in 1970.

What was it 75 maybe and had been back there several times and for the most part it was during the Jesus women there were people coming to Christ, but it was the traditional Christians go to the churches in Suffolk that were pretty apathetic about the things of God. And I heard at that time, the Billy Graham would not hold crusades in New England because the guests not enough people showed up or something or just it was known to be a lackluster area now since that time I've known a few wonderful Christian churches in Connecticut, for example, and elsewhere, so I don't know what it's like now, but to hear that there's churches where there were they hate each other in a racist, something that I don't really see how I don't know why that would be and I don't see how a Christian and this time, especially where being racist is so politically incorrect for silence. I don't see why a Christian would be racist at all about your writing human being would be racist, but some people are. I don't think Christian should be but in such an age where racism ever was accused of racism seems not Christians in order to avoid being a reproach to Christ would do everything they can to make sure they're not racist and don't ever show prejudice but I can't answer for your ear in a different culture there in New England I'm here in Southern California we really would never I don't know if I've I don't get ever going to church or anyone would exist would express racist ideas or or what is would be overtly hateful ideas again, I think, and certainly not toward sinners frankly mean I know there are no historically urban churches that were very hard on sinners puritanical type churches and so forth. But since in my lifetime time I been in ministry for the past 50 years. I don't know if I've ever run into people who would not be ashamed to express hatred or to exhibit even if they had in their heart. Most people are understand that the Bible says it response to love each other and that Jesus said, John said in first John chapter 3 in verse 15 whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. So John said anyone who hates somebody doesn't have eternal life abiding. That is not a Christian, and I suspect that may be the true true true case and in many cases you've heard of because the fact that somebody goes to church doesn't mean there Christian the fact that they go to church all their life doesn't mean they're Christian. It only means that there for whatever reason, attached to a religious tradition of some kind, but being a Christian means that you been born again that you're a follower of Jesus that you been you received his spirit and is producing the fruit of the spirit which is loving you. If you find people who don't have love in them than Jesus, so there's no reason to believe there Christians is that this is how all men will know that you are my disciples, if you have love. Now I would say there might be Christians who have their were pretty defective in their love.

They have love for good at it but I I would say anyone who is exhibiting love is exhibit hatred is giving you no reason to believe that there Christian. Jesus said you won't know Christians except by the love and so the fact that people are churches should not cause them to mistake them for being Christians, I appreciate your call. Rather, let's talk to looks like it's Christy and Whidbey Island, Washington looking to the neuropathic for calling me and non-reporting eBay and I need to weigh in on their bargaining unit. Your letter.

The lead and dad in the moment she catering manager. She would dad. She told me she picked from the moment she could remember. She felt there was nothing she could give bandolier rate Catholic and let me tell you that didn't go over well.

In fact she was going at it. That evening, and were cocking at year, year or year and she continued.

Leave it blank.

You know Lori did seem to like what you mean there may not not to have sexual life. The crazy lives, especially Christians who haven't been able to marry Christians is not crazy, and suggested let me just say this about her kids were running long time. Yeah I know I know there are many gays who would say they were born that way and that they and that they felt they were of the opposite sex or felt drawn to same-sex or whatever from very early age I have to honestly, while not wishing call them liars or like to challenge their memories. I don't think anybody at age 3 or four has anything like sexual feelings toward anyone you know like I think the truth when I was like in second grade I was shy around girls and and so I kinda like boys but not sexually. I didn't have a sexual attitude at all.

Once I reach puberty I do care about boys that way but there are there are things in people's personalities that might make them drawn more for friendship or for whatever to people of their same-sex but until your approaching puberty and I could be having actual sexual attraction to them and guarded about the age of eight lesbian sexual actually attracted to women why I have hard time with that I have a hard time believing eight-year-olds.

I mean, maybe today, people, kids been so sexualized by TV and by movies and so forth of 50 years ago eight-year-olds were not expressed kind of fear that their doing what you doing well. I would do anything and witnessing. One thing but she was having sex was eight years old. I want to go into a light in their and my father had a lot of pornography in the house. Yeah I would say to people. I think a lot of people are marked torque sexual tendencies long before eight.

That is to say they been in one way, traumatized, or molested and like little boys who don't have any sexual attraction.

All are sometimes molested by men, but because it is in some respects I suppose a pleasurable experience as well as being trauma. That's how they begin to think of sex, perhaps from that time on that doesn't always happen because I know men who were you molested us as boys who did not go toward homosexuality, but I could see how since probably a very a much larger percentage than the than the general most much larger percentage of homosexuals are people who were molested and traumatized. I would like to put one more thought out and I don't know, children are born with an actual organ gonna stand there. You get died when she I don't know what God mean by that I don't believe there are any well there are results of the fall. There are results in the fall when children are born blind children born six fingers and others. There are things that go wrong because of the fall and in the that's the world we live in enforcement and unfortunately a certain percentage of I think not a very large percentage of children are born with both organs of both sexes, and then, of course, like say parents have to decide which ones are we going rate have removed and I could imagine the possibility of parents making a wrong choice, though I would think I'm yeah I'd I don't know much about this subject, obviously, but I would think that they could actually have their their DNA tested negative or something just to see if they were white cormorants chromosome are not coming because because sexuality is not determined only by the organs but also by at the cellular level by the presence or absence of Dragon so if I had a childhood both sets of organs. I would certainly want the doctors to do a lab test to see whether with my childhood Y chromosome and if not then you or the seller does matter, and I know which set of organs no longer. Fortunately day and go far and wide beyond what we would now state that died. I don't believe you and I believe our Lord last night and I believe you want. Kate you locked when not in the alcoholic led lifestyle. Of course you're right, of course you're right and you know, even if even if she will lets allow for the sake of him even if she was born with a tendency toward homosexuality. As you said to her, she can live a celibate life. I mean I'm right I am a man I was ready I was born with heterosexual inclination and I'm a heterosexual through and through but if I was not married I happy a celibate heterosexual and I have I have been for many years my life. I'm married now, but to been married. Unfortunately, more than once, but I've also spent as much as a decade as an adult single and you know it's it's hard it's hard but life is hard is determined to follow Jesus Christ. They can choose to be celibate. I'm not single never fall Christians fall into things like just like a person who chooses to be sober if the alcoholic. The fact that they stumble and fall, and then repent doesn't mean they never really repent or Christian or even whether not a sober Christian just means they had a moment when they failed and you know I would say this, it's possible for anyone to choose a celibate lifestyle. You might say that I don't know that I can well God will give you assistance in the Holy Spirit walking spirit will not flash but there are times when people were Christians do fall, they repent and they don't they don't just reaffirm the sin they renounce their sin and they continue following Jesus.

How much time I wish I could no longer there is much more because I can take.

I'm sorry to say you're listening to the narrow path. My name is Steve Greg. We are listener supported you like help us.

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