Sin After Hours

This is Hans Schile from the Finishing Well Podcast.

On Finishing Well, we help you make godly choices about Medicare, long-term care, and your money. Your chosen Truth Network Podcast is starting in just seconds. Enjoy it, share it, but most of all, thank you for listening and choosing the Truth Podcast Network. From an entrenched barricade deep in the heart of central North Carolina, Masculine Journey After Hours. A time to go deeper and be more transparent on the topic covered on this week's broadcast.

So sit back and join us on this adventure. The Masculine Journey After Hours starts here, now. Welcome to Masculine Journey After Hours, and we are not having a repeat of a past show. No, this is Harold's second topic in a month.

This is amazing, Harold. I'm excited. It was such a great topic. Will you tell us a little bit about it?

Well, I'll do it briefly so I don't waste the time here. If you want to hear a broader definition, go back and watch the first show. But it's basically from John, Chapter 8, where a bunch of scoundrels take a woman caught in adultery and bring her, but not her partner, and bring him before Jesus.

And they really don't care about her. They're just trying to trap Jesus. That's sort of the broad definition of it. And I thought there were a lot of different angles to attack, so it has turned out that way.

I've been really tickled. Yeah. In the first show, we stuck kind of just with church stories, a little bit on the clips. This time, we're going to use Jesus' stories in our life, but with different clips. So none of these are from Scripture on the second show, and so I know, but we'll see if we can tie it into Jesus anyway. But we did take it in a lot of different directions, and that's always good on the topic. You did a great job with that.

Thank you. Danny, you're first on the After Hours with the first clip, so if you want to tell us a little bit about it. Yeah, my clip is from the movie To Kill a Walking Bird, which is coming out in like 1961 or 62. So if you hadn't seen it, spoiler alert, it's way out of context at this point. It is in black and white, so no one born past about the 80s would watch it anyway. Yeah, we watched the Andy Griffith Show in motion.

That's black and white too, so we wouldn't really notice. But we went and saw a play last weekend, To Kill a Walking Bird, so this was kind of in the forefront of my mind anyway. And then Harold throws this topic out, and I couldn't help but think about the judgment that these men were using over this woman, but more importantly, how they were using it over Jesus. And there was a statement that was made in the play, and I went and found it in the movie, that Atticus Finch is going to make to his daughter Scout in this clip. And they're sitting out on the porch and having a conversation about school and how things aren't going well, and lots of judgment.

But the overall arching of the movie is there's a man on trial who's innocent, and there are people making lots of snap judgments about him. So what Atticus is rule of life on dealing with people is what he hands it down to his daughter Scout, and we can play it and talk about it afterwards. Scout, what in the world has got into you? Now, now, now. Atticus, I'm not going back to school anymore. Now, Scout, it's just the first day.

I don't care. Everything went wrong. Teacher got mad as a devil at me and said you were teaching me to read all wrong and to stop it. Then acted like a fool and tried to give Walter Cunningham a quarter. Well, everybody knows Cunninghams won't take nothing from nobody. Any fool could have told her that. Well, maybe she's just nervous after all.

It's her first day too, teaching school and being new here. Oh, Atticus. Now, wait a minute. You just learn a single trick, Scout. You get along a lot better with all kinds of folks. You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view. Yes, sir.

Till you climb inside of his skin, walk around in it. But if I keep going to school, we can't ever read anymore. Scout, you know what a compromise is?

Been in the law? Uh, no. It's an agreement reached by mutual consent. Now, here's the way it works. You can see the necessity of going to school. We'll keep right on reading the same every night, just as we always have.

Is that a bargain? I love that passage of scripture, but like Harold had mentioned earlier, there's lots of mystery around that. What did Jesus write in the sand and lots of different things. And likewise, when we're dealing with people and we're making judgment of these guys caught this lady in an act. But their judgment was death. That kind of thing.

They probably didn't consider who she was, how she got to where she was or any of that stuff. And so often I make those judgments or people make those judgments about other people. Here's one snapshot in life, one picture, and we forget to watch the whole movie.

And that's kind of where I went. We've had some lots of different family get together this weekend and this past weekend. And one of them was a cousin's birthday party. And several years ago, we had kind of a breakup, if you will, in the family. My dad's got four brothers and it didn't go well when their mother died with all the property stuff. And needless to say, there was some animosity. And I didn't realize how much I had until watching one of my cousins who dealt with it. His dad dealt with it. His dad's already passed on a whole lot more than I did. But he put this party together and he invited his dad's accusers, basically. And I'm like, wow, that's that's kind of close.

To be honest, I wouldn't have invited him to anything. But it made me realize maybe you need to walk a mile in their shoes or you get in their skin, walk around a bit. Because that seems to make there's so much wisdom there. That seems to make it so much easier to deal with people when I consider that, you know, that maybe maybe Rodney's having a bad day. Maybe, you know, somebody's having a bad day.

That's why they're reacting. It has nothing to do with where we are right here now. And that's just kind of where I went with that is because, you know, especially in Christian circles, we so quick to judge that, you know, a person walks in dressed a certain way or, you know, tattoos or I've seen it all. And but stop, consider the journey that took them to get right where they were. And that's just kind of where I went with that.

On the John 8, Jesus says a lot about his present, his present at that time, future and past. As you were talking, Danny, I think that there's a difference between understanding and agreeing. I can understand where people are coming from or where they've been. It doesn't mean I agree. Yeah. Right.

And there's a difference here. And I think a lot of times Christians get stuck on, well, if I try to understand, that means I agree with what they've done or where they are, who they are or any of that. No, understanding and agreeing are two totally different things. Yeah. Right. And we're called to understand.

Along with accepting is completely different also. Right. Exactly. But a lot of times we get those intertwined and they're not the same thing. Yeah.

And so I just want to make sure the listeners out there weren't hearing you say that because what I heard you saying was try to understand. Yeah. Right. Yeah, walk a mile in their shoes kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah, walking with them or, you know, because sometimes you can understand a little bit, but a lot of times you don't. Right.

I mean, there are things that people have dealt with that I have no clue, but I'm understanding there was a journey to get them where they are. Right. Yeah, sometimes the best way to understand is to shut up and listen, you know, which is awful hard. What are you trying to say, Rodney? Well.

I think he pretty well said it. Well, I always wanted to fix it. Yeah. It was about the nail always for me. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Everything was a hammer.

I had a hammer for everything because it was always a nail. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Rodney, you're actually next. So you want to tell us a bit about your clip or where do you want to start? Yeah, this clip is a very familiar one.

Probably it's not as old as Danny's, but I bet more people have seen this one. This is from A Few Good Men. This is the court scene. And what you have is you have two men on trial. Yes, they're guilty, but there's, as Paul Harvey would say, there's more to the story.

There's the rest of the story, right? So you've got the colonel who is the one that ordered the whole thing to happen. And he's going to get off scot-free.

The two guys that carried it out under orders are the ones that are going to be accused here and are about to be guilty of everything and the colonel's about to get off scot-free until the middle of this court scene. The prosecuting attorney's kind of thinking, okay, do I go for it now? I've been setting things up.

I've been setting things up and I am going to put myself in kind of harm's way here in doing this and be in contempt of court and all kinds of things if I charge in after him. But he just keeps setting things up and setting things up. And I can see this relating to Jesus getting one guy to leave after another. There's something going on there where he's just breaking down the walls. He's breaking down the walls to bring the truth out.

And that's what's going on in this court scene where there's just, well, let me just shed a little light here. You get somebody to admit something. Okay, that's what you said. Now, then how can this still be true?

And if you said that, how can the next thing be true? And he's using the logic of all that and saying, you're contradicting yourself. And this court scene is to get him angry so that he'll lose his cool and just tell everybody, I'm the guy with authority because what's going on here in this whole scene with the woman called adultery is authority. And Jesus is the one with the ultimate authority. And he's in control of the situation. But in this one here, you think that the colonel's in control until he gets up in the middle of the scene and he goes to walk out and he's told to go back and sit down. And then there's this whole battle for authority as the colonel says, well, I'm the colonel. Address me as that. Then he smarts off to the judge and the judge says, well, I've earned my authority for sure.

You address me properly. And there's this whole authority changing. And then it goes back to the prosecutor grilling him. And I can just see there's something in this that I could see yet coming from that same thing but in a different manner, of course, coming from Jesus where he's not going to yell and scream and do all that for like the drama that's in this show or this movie. But yet that was high drama going on with, she was caught and people were probably coming to it. And there was more than just the accusers. There's probably other people that saw this happening and gathering around.

And then they just, the drama of that just drifts away as Jesus addresses them. So go ahead. You ever served in an infantry unit, son? No, sir.

Ever served in a forward area? No, sir. Ever put your life in another man's hands?

Asked him to put his life in yours? No, sir. We follow orders, son. We follow orders or people die.

It's that simple. Are we clear? Yes, sir. Are we clear?

Crystal. Colonel, I have just one more question before I call Airman O'Malley and Airman Rodriguez. If you gave an order that Santiago wasn't to be touched and your orders are always followed, then why would Santiago be in danger? Why would it be necessary to transfer him off the base?

Santiago was a substandard Marine. He was being transferred. That's not what you said. You said he was being transferred because he was in grave danger.

That's correct. You said he was in danger. I said grave danger. You said, is there any- I recall what I said. I can have the court reporter read back to you.

I know what I said. I don't have to have it read back to me like I'm- Why the two orders? Colonel? Sometimes men take matters into their own hands. No, sir. You made it clear just a moment ago that your men never take matters in their own hands. Your men follow orders or people die. So Santiago shouldn't have been in any danger at all, should he have, Colonel? You snotty little- Your Honor, I'd like to ask for a recess. I'd like an answer to the question, Judge.

The court will wait for an answer. If Lieutenant Kendrick gave an order that Santiago wasn't to be touched, then why did he have to be transferred? Colonel? Lieutenant Kendrick ordered the code red, didn't he?

Because that's what you told Lieutenant Kendrick to do. Object! And when it went bad, you cut these guys loose! Your Honor, you had Marcus inside a phony transporter! Your Honor, you doctored the log book!

Damn it, Gabby! Consider yourself in contempt! Colonel Jessup, did you order the code red? You don't have to answer that question. I'll answer the question. You want answers? I think I'm entitled to them. You want answers! I want the truth!

You can't handle the truth! Did you order the code red? I did the job!

Did you order the code red? I guess he did. I guess he did. I'm sure. You're right, I did. Yeah. Yeah. Darned right. Well, he said right.

It was all cut out. But, so, the thing that came to my mind is what are all the ways in which you would describe this scene? I just started looking up a few things and I thought, I want her to take a few of those, and I went to thesaurus, and you're like, oh my gosh, look at how many ways we have to describe things like lying. Lie, deceive, slander, misrepresent, distort, misinform, trick, mislead, hoax, and I'm only getting the bears. I just went through them real quick and I'm like, there's so many things, some of these I thought of, some I didn't, to exaggerate, to enhance, to elaborate, embellish, overstate, hyperbolize, overemphasize. Talking about shadows, the shifting shadows, you've got dark, dim, obscure, murky, gloomy. I mean, I could go on for an hour probably just going down all the different ways we have for darkness in this world.

Because what do we do? Every time we describe it one way, well, I didn't really lie. I was shading the truth. We want to describe it in a way that doesn't convict us in whatever is coming in today that tells me that I'm wrong. I'm guilty. I don't want that. I'm going to do everything I can to get out from under that.

That's what I do. I take either the same word and change the definition of it, which happens all the time today, or we go in and we say, well, it's not really that we're going to create a new word to describe this because it's really a nuance over here, and we try to get away from the guilt that we know is coming in us because our conscience tells us about that. So, all Jesus is really doing is exposing the truth, and that's what's going on in the courtroom is this, okay, how do we get to the truth? There's a different way in each situation, and then in the end, in both of them, in the courtroom and with Jesus with the woman caught in adultery, there is the admission of guilt. She knows she's guilty. Go away and sin no more. She's forgiven, like Harold was saying, but then when it comes to all the men accusing her, they're still guilty of their sin.

They've not been forgiven by Jesus, and the man that was caught in adultery that didn't get brought in front of anybody, as far as we know, he's still going away guilty because he didn't get to come to Jesus. And there are wonderful verses that I was kind of perusing through to go through, like accusing, who's been accused, you know, the accuser, and being able to go through that and have some fun looking at different stories and then like are the Psalms and transfer, okay, what's the context of those, and there's just, that's a fun read also, Harold, to go in and go through that and just see all the different aspects. So I was just kind of enjoying my time doing that, and one of the things that brought back to my memory was early on in my career, I was in my probably 20s yet, took my first, what, personality test, Myers-Briggs, so I can still remember, I'm an ISTJ, and man, I'm a capital, bold, 70 font J. I was almost off the charts, J.

Everything else was kind of like, okay, you're mostly these IST, but then the J was almost just 100% a judger. And as going through life, I'm like, uh, yep, that's me. That's my very first instinctive thing to kind of, huh, what about you, Terry? Okay, who are you coming in here and talking with us? And I just jump into that, I see something, like you talked, somebody said something like tattoos and this, other stuff.

It doesn't matter what it is. Somebody's looks, their hairstyle, I just begin to judge on external things very quickly. And I know I'm there, so I try to combat that and not speak, because that helps a lot.

At least people don't know how stupid you are, you know? But that's where I just live my life in that, okay, what am I thinking? Who are they, who are they really?

And it helps me actually sometimes to force into, like Bobby said before in the first show, leaning into God, pressing in, because I'm like, why am I going to my first instinct so quickly, Lord? What do you say about them? Darrell Bock And you J guys are really irritating to us P's. I don't know why we get along so well, because I'm an ENFP to your IST J. Scott Horrell We're opposites completely. Darrell Bock There's a few other things I call you guys, but it's one of those. Scott Horrell Different initials. Darrell Bock Different initials all together, yeah.

But yeah, but they're mostly nice, mostly. Scott Horrell Some of them. Darrell Bock Some of them. Scott Horrell There was that one. Darrell Bock Yeah, so it's judging versus perceiving, right? On the Myers-Briggs, that's the two categories. You're either in one side of the equation or more on the other, right?

Scott Horrell Yep. P's. I think that Christians probably do more judging than anything. Maybe just the ones I'm around sometimes.

I hear more of a judgment thing from them. Darrell Bock I perceive he's saying I'm not a Christian, but I could be wrong. Scott Horrell I'm going to judge that, yes. P's. Maybe because I'm not that much of a judger. Maybe I was back in the day, but I'm not now.

I'm not one of those guys that would go first. Scott Horrell And there's appropriate judging, according to the Bible. There's appropriate and there's inappropriate. P's. Darrell Bock So I think it's beautiful, you know me, I'm thinking in Hebrew. And the word judgment in Hebrew is a phenomenal word in that what you're looking for actually is the good in something. And so I've seen you do that on numerous occasions. In other words, it's a gift. There's two hands to it. So if you look for the good in a particular situation, you're judging for that. And the word tav, which is also the last letter in the Hebrew alphabet, it's got the word dan inside of it, which is no man left behind. And so part of what you're doing is judging to see if there's a lost sheep out there somewhere that we need to go after. And I've seen you do that too. You know, was it Corey?

One of our first guys, and man, there was nobody going after that last man behind. So yeah, you may be that J, but there's things in that J that are absolutely spectacular. That are on the other side of it. So I wouldn't be so quick not to take those sides of judgment that are actually pretty awesome. Darrell Bock So quit judging yourself so quickly. Darrell Bock Well, you've got to take some of the bad with the good too, right? So it's all mixed in there with any one of those personalities.

It doesn't – it's not who we are. Darrell Bock Right. Darrell Bock Yeah. Darrell Bock It's tendencies.

And quite often, taking an attribute, a good attribute to an extreme makes it bad. Darrell Bock Right. So – Darrell Bock You know, Robby, on that comment you made, Robby, it kind of made me see the other side. Because I saw only one side of judgment. And that was me.

Kind of not good. But I appreciate the comment. It made me think a different way.

Darrell Bock Well, speaking of thinking a different way, we get to my clip. When Harold first sent it out, there was some questioning. That's – we'll just say it that way. There's a little banter back and forth. And Harold said, you know, I don't want to just stifle this down.

I want to give a lot of options, right? I want to let it go where it goes. And so I kind of went where it went with it. And as I was thinking about the story of Jesus with the lady being accused of adultery and the gentlemen that were there, the men that were there, you know, he takes her sin and turns and focuses it on them looking at their sin, right? And so it made me think about what does Jesus do with me and my sin?

And I really thought about it for a minute. And I came up with the thing from John Lynch. He's a Christian writer, a pastor, really, really good guy, blogger, vlogger, all the things you can do. If you want to look it up, it's John Lynch Navigator. He talks to the Navigators.

If you look up John Lynch Navigator on YouTube, it's a 44-minute amazing teaching on lots of things. And my clip comes from part of that. But in part of the story, he tells about on his journey, he comes to a fork in the road. And on this fork in the road, there were two paths. And the one path says this is the road. On the left here is the way to pleasing God. And the road to the right is a path to trusting God.

And you can only pick one side. And he says, well, I really want to please God. I mean, God's done so many things for me.

I want to please him. And it starts from a good place. And so he heads down that road, and when he heads down that road, he starts to realize that he has to strive hard to be all that God wants him to be. That as he's trying to please God, he has to strive to do that. And it leads into the room of good intentions. And in order to get into the room of good intentions, he has to turn the knob of effort. And it leads to a banner of working – hold on, I can't read it now – working on my sin to achieve an intimate relationship with God.

That's the banner you kind of live with. I'm going to work on my sin so I can have an intimate relationship with God. And it's a sin management theology. But when you follow the other road, and when you listen to the story – and there's so much more than what I'm talking about in this clip – but when you listen to the story, he started down that road and realized, okay, I can't live here.

It's not achievable. So let me go all the way back, and he goes down the other road, the road to trusting God, which feels a little foreign. It feels, I don't know. And so he goes down that road. And when you start to walk down that, you realize you have to live out who God says I am. That's what my journey is.

Not my striving, but just to live out who God already tells me who I am. And it leads to the room of grace. And you enter into the room of grace by turning the knob of humility. And then it leads to the banner of standing with God, with my sin in front of me, working on it together.

I'm going to play the clip because we're running out of time, but that's where we pick it up. And so I think back again of the banner on the back wall in the room of grace, standing with my God, with my sin in front of us, working on it together. See, all this time I thought that he was over there.

I used to write a journal, and I stopped doing it because I couldn't take it anymore, all the self-deprecation and beating myself up. But what if, because of the blood of Jesus Christ, what if he was never over there? What if Jesus Christ walked all the way around and walked up to me and grabbed my shoulders and looked into my face and put his hands on my face and stroke my hair and says, I know, I know, I love you so much. I'm crazy about you. And I know all the stuff, and I'm not ashamed. I've known from before the world began, and nothing you can do can make me love you more, and nothing will ever make me love you less. I'm crazy about you. And what if he puts his arm around me and we look at my sin together?

He would say, that is a lot of sin. My, my, my. And we'll work on it when you're ready, kid. I got you covered. I've known all about it from before the world began. My shed blood is that powerful.

I'm crazy about you. I do want to be clear here. There is a time for sin management. There's active things I got to do not to go to places I know I shouldn't go. You know, emotionally, physically, spiritually, there's things I got to do that is an effort that I have to make. But our freedom doesn't come from our effort. Our healing doesn't come from our effort.

It's from the work of Christ in our life, and he does it when we're ready to work on that with him. He's not going to rush in. He may cause us to deal with it, but he wants us to walk it through with him and let him guide it and lead us to healing and restoration and the life-changing thing that comes from his truth when we learn about it from his word, from his mouth, from him. So go with him this week. Walk with him. Let him love on you and love somebody else well this week. Go to masculinejourney.org to reach out to us or register for boot camp. Talk to you next week.