Unforgiveness

Hi, this is Roy Jones with ManTalk Radio Podcast. Our mission is to break down the walls of race and denomination. Your chosen Truth Radio Broadcast will be starting in just a few seconds. Thank you. Welcome to The Masculine Journey. We're glad that you're with us this week, and we're going to be starting a series that I think you're going to enjoy.

Actually, I don't know that you're going to enjoy it, but it'll be informative. I think you'll… It could be literal pillars. It could be pillars. It is a pillar. It is at least four pillars. We've identified four of the pillars.

Okay, yeah, that's true. And what we're going to be talking about is the tools of the enemy. The things that the enemy uses to keep us in bondage, to keep us from getting healing, to keep us in broken relationships, you just name it. This is some of the stuff that he uses, and today's topic is we're going to be talking about he wants to keep us in a place of unforgiveness. Somewhere in one of the prayers in the Bible, it says, forgive others. It's one of those. It's the only one Jesus talked about.

Right? So, it's obviously something that we're supposed to do, and so this show is going to be on forgiveness and not staying in unforgiveness. And Andy, you have the first clip.

Would you like to tell us a little bit about it? So, just continuing with the shack theme from last week, from my clip, but this is a clip of Mack as he's getting along through the process. He's talked to the different personalities of the Trinity, and he's made it to a different, I guess, it's the shack. It's a different personality of Father God, and it's this, like, chief, Indian chief, that's the personification. But really, he's just talking with God, and in doing so, God is walking him through the process of forgiveness over his child being murdered and brutally murdered.

And how he had held that anger for a long time, and God gives him a lot of wisdom in how he's to handle this, and he's actually leading him through the process to where he can actually say, I forgive. You're stuck because you won't. You don't have to do this alone. I'm here with you. I don't know how. Just say it out loud. I forgive. Kenzie, you're such a joy. I'm still angry.

Of course you are. No one lets go all at once. You might have to do it a thousand times before it gets any easier. But it will.

Let's go. So as you hear there, he has to walk him through that process. I think it's a powerful statement that says, you can't forgive, not because you can't, but because you won't. And that goes a lot in our life. We choose not to do something, not because we can't do it.

We just choose not to. But he leads him through that process, and then you hear him after he decides to forgive, and it's what I believe God does, is when we take those steps of faith and trust God into something like being led into forgiving somebody, God's love is there to just say, I'm so proud of you, and validate him in that step. But you know, I was thinking when we were talking about this topic, I've heard this, you probably have heard it from the stage, it talks about, you know, when you're talking about forgiveness, you know, forgiveness is like drinking poison and expecting the other person that you're holding forgiveness against for them to die and not yourself.

You know, you really poison your own heart by not forgiving somebody. So, you know, I think that's kind of where he was at. His life was stagnant. He could not move along in his life.

He couldn't get past anything and have any success, and he couldn't really have a deep relationship with God. So that was a tool of the enemy to keep him bound, saying, please say something. Oh, no, I was just going to keep staring at you to see how comfortable I could make you.

I didn't know. You were doing great. I was listening to you. That was a great point. You know, the enemy does use that to keep us in that bondage, as we're talking about. I'm going to go ahead and play a clip from our friend Jim, who wasn't able to be with us tonight. So I'm going to go ahead and play his clip. We've played it before, but I think it really ties into this whole thing that you were talking about, that at least one tribe in Africa had it figured out, you know, on how to work this whole forgiveness thing.

And so let's listen to it, and we'll come back and talk about it. Everyone who loses somebody wants revenge on someone, on God, if they can't find anyone else. But in Africa, in Matoibo, the coup believe that the only way to end grief is to save a life. If someone is murdered, a year of mourning ends with a ritual that we call the drowning man trial.

There's an all-night party beside a river at dawn. The killer is put in a boat, he's taken out on the water, and he's dropped. He's bound so that he can't swim. The family of the dead then has to make a choice. They can let him drown, or they can swim out and save him. The coup believe that if the family lets the killer drown, they'll have justice but spend the rest of their lives in mourning. But if they save him, if they admit that life isn't always just, that very act can take away their sorrow.

Vengeance is a lazy form of grief. I know Jim's not here to talk about that, but we are. And I think that that clip really shows a lot about the choices we have to make. That's a very formal choice in this tribe.

It may be all made up, I don't know. It's from a movie, but assuming it's real, how cool that there's a choice that has to be made. But as we listen to that, we have the same choice that we have to make.

Do we choose to forgive? And Andy, as you were talking about, unforgiveness only holds me hostage. It is like trying to drink the poison and kill somebody else.

It's just going to kill me. And it sucks the life away from you. The joy, the hope, all those kinds of things that it just becomes eventually into bitterness. What I hadn't heard before until just now was, she says at the end of that, vengeance is a lazy form of grief. I never had thought about it that way, but that really is true. It really is. You guys are all really quiet. I'm looking at you, you're all looking at each other.

Harold, do you have something you'd like to add? Yeah, I think one of the hidden things about unforgiveness, it not only ruins your attitude toward the person that you're holding that against, it ruins you with other people as well. Because when you've got that unforgiveness and that anger, you're not going to have a good relationship with anybody. So it expands beyond the original source, and the devil wins.

Yeah, it does. I remember I was changing companies, and I had a really, really bad experience with one company. It really just felt like I got burnt pretty bad. And honestly, it took me a while to be a good employee, because I was just refusing to trust the new employer. It had nothing to do with them, but it was all about me not forgiving. And until I could come to a place of reconciliation, then I could enjoy the place that I was working after that.

Danny, you had something? Yeah, I'd read somewhere where resentment is the cancer to the soul. So when you hold on to those things, it eats at you. And I love what Harold said, it eats at you, it eats at the relationships around you and the people inside and around you. It changes you, so being able to let go of that brings healing.

It does. I'm going to go ahead and throw another clip in here. This is my clip, we've got enough time to get it in, and then if we need to, we'll talk about it after the break. But this is from, the book was Unforgiven, the movie was called Unforgiven, but it's really the Louis Zamperini story. And he had been a pilot in an airplane, and bombardier, thank you, I couldn't think of the term, in World War II, and he got shot down and was in the sea for 39 days, went through really bad times there, obviously, got saved. But where he got saved was on a Japanese island where they're keeping prisoners of war.

And he was incredibly brutal. I'm going to keep talking, I'm not going to get this clip in. He was incredibly beaten, and horrible things happened to him, and so he comes back to the US, and he's not a well man. He's broken. I'm not going to get the clip in.

So we're just going to go ahead, and I'll keep talking about the clip, we'll play it after the break. But he's broken, you know, and so obviously the title, Unbroken, has something to do with that. You know, they couldn't break his spirit, but they broke his will to some degree. And he came back, and he was fighting with PTSD, he was drinking a lot. His wife had heard about a guy that was doing a crusade in town. I think she'd been there before him and got saved. And so she said, look, basically, if you don't go to this crusade, you know, we're not going to have a marriage.

And so he goes to the crusade and ends up, it's a Billy Graham crusade, ends up getting saved there. And so when we come back, we have a little bit of time, we're going to talk a little bit more. But when we come back, we'll play that clip after the break. But it's an amazing story, and it's a true story. That's what makes it so really cool. You know, we listen to all these Hollywood clips, and we think that that's amazing. But what's really amazing is what God does. And we know that the truth is in the Hollywood clips because they're stealing from God's story.

I mean, we talk about that a lot on the air. But it is more, it's so incredible when you hear it as God unpacks it in somebody's life. If you think about the times, you know, if you go to church, or you've been to church, and you hear the power of somebody's testimony. The Scripture is amazing, and it brings life.

But to hear God's application in somebody's life is a different level. Right? You guys are shaking your head. I know I just keep talking, but would you like to add anything? We've got about a minute before we go to break.

I don't have time for the clip, so you have to add something here for me. He wasn't actually shot down. He wasn't shot down?

I thought he was. They were in a plane that had been cobbled together with spare parts off other things, and they were out searching for a plane that had disappeared. And that plane went kaput.

So they crashed into the ocean. You were probably there, weren't you Harold? Alright, when we come back, we're going to play that clip I set up for eternity. It's the longest set up ever.

I did take Rodney's place. Actually, I'm pretty well set up for it because I read the book, and then I've seen the movie two or three times. Yeah, it's a great book. It's a great movie.

We recommend it. Alright, when we come back, we're going to talk about that, but go to masculinejourney.org. Register for boot camp. For me, describing boot camp, when I heard the stories from the stage that the other men had, and then during my prayer time, I'm getting a download from God on where my life is and how I have wounds and I have a place in His story. To know how I heard from God is one of those things.

He really does communicate with us. Register today at masculinejourney.org. Register today at masculinejourney.org.

Welcome back to Masculine Journey. I'd like to tell you who that was, but I can't remember who it was. It said M something. I don't know. It's not on my screen here. It's M somebody, but anyway.

Not M&M. We'll post that out on the Masculine Journey Twitter so we can tell you who that was and give credit to the person. I picked that bump in, although I should have written down her name more clearly. But I picked that one because in this topic of forgiveness, it's difficult to forgive others. It is very difficult to do that. When you've been wronged, hurt deeply, it's really, really hard to forgive people. But the hardest person to forgive often is yourself. And for me, that's the one that really hung me up for the longest time. Shared it on the air before, but having gone through some stuff with molestation from a family member, I had forgiven them long before I forgave myself for letting it happen to me.

And I could have everybody talk logically to me on how I was 10 years old, and I shouldn't be that hard on myself about that stuff. But there was just something in me that made the agreement I should have known better. And so the enemy kept me in that unforgiveness of myself, and honestly, I couldn't move to healing. I couldn't move to a place of being okay to really talk about it until I could move through that and forgive myself.

And so part of what God may be calling you today is he may land someone on your mind to forgive, or he may just be having you to look in the mirror and say that it's somebody that you need to forgive as yourself. And so back to the longest setup ever. Rodney, I think I officially took that title from you. Back to the Louis Zamperini story. This is not from a movie. It's from the interview around the movie.

And so what you hear, you have four different people that talk in this clip. You have Laura Hildebrand, who wrote Seabisca and wrote Unbroken. Two great movies, and incredible detail in the book. Harold, I bet you would agree that the book was just amazing in the level of detail that she went to. Yeah, it'll make you skin crawl.

Yeah, without a doubt. It's the toughest read I've ever had, but it was amazingly done. But anyway, you're going to hear her talking about it. You're going to hear Louis talking. And then there's two younger voices that come in.

The one that's not the youngest is Louis' son. And then the youngest you hear at the very end is his grandson, and we'll talk about it when we come back. Graham spoke of things that resonated with Louis, with his experience about how God reaches into people's lives and helps them get through things that seem unsurvivable. I went forward in the meeting and made my confession of faith in Christ, and I couldn't believe what happened. While I was still on my knees, my life changed in a matter of moments because I knew I was still getting drunk. And I knew that I forgave my cards, and I knew it was a miracle because I forgave the birds. And that was the first night.

The first night in two and a half years, I didn't have a nightmare, and I haven't had one since. When Louis realized that God can forgive him for all the rotten things he did in his life, that he ought to be able to forgive those that had done him wrong. So forgiving the guards and the bird was actually salvation for him. It really turned him around in an instant. He decided he needed to test his forgiveness to see if he really had truly achieved it, and he went back to Japan to meet the guards who had abused him so terribly.

And he went to Sugama Prison, where they were all being held for war crimes. He went to every single one and looked them in the eye and told them that he forgave them for the treatment that he received when he was a prisoner of war. He felt no animosity. He just felt compassion, and they couldn't believe it. He couldn't believe it.

It was a wonderful experience. He knew he had truly forgiven them. I think it's incredible that he forgave them. That's a lesson that he taught my father and me. By hating somebody, I'm not hurting them.

I'm only hurting myself. You can forgive anybody. Forgiveness is always possible. That was obviously the clip that I chose, mostly because of the movie, not mostly, partly because of the book. But just when you listen to that, Louis' wife's decision to get him to go to listen to Billy Graham changed generations and his family. Louis accepting that challenge and going there and listening to the words and listening to the Holy Spirit and stepping into that place changed his son's life.

It changed his grandson's life, and who knows how many more. So when we're talking about this thing of unforgiveness, it's not just you that's impacted. You could be creating situations for generations of unforgiveness by not walking with God in it. I don't mean that as a shame thing, but just a realization of it's more than just you that's impacted.

Yeah, there's things in the Old Testament throughout the Bible where you have generational curses, and if unforgiveness is the trap or the bondage factor there that's keeping you held, you could have generational curses, but you could also have generational blessings. Every one of those people in his family knew about how much he had forgiven, and that made it much more easy for them to forgive going forward in their lives. Harold, am I right? Didn't he also, because of all this, because of what he did, he also carried the Olympic torch, I believe.

Yeah, I think he was in his 80s and went back over and carried the torch for one of the legs there in Japan. Yeah, that's what I thought he had. Thanks, Harold.

Robby, it's your turn. You want to tell us a little bit about your clip and set it up? Yeah, really great movie. It's called Inlawfully Yours. It's on Netflix. Excuse me, it's on Pure Netflix.

Wonderful movie. But the deal here is we've got a pastor who lost his wife, whose name is Sarah, and he's getting somewhat involved with another young lady at this point, and she's trying to dig into those walls that have come up as a result of his relationship with God. And she's pushing into how did you deal with the loss of your wife, being that you're a pastor?

And his explanation to me gave some real insight into what happens, actually, when we don't forgive God, who at some level is behind almost all unforgiveness. So, just play it and we'll go from there. You know, they told me a little, but can I ask how you handled losing Sarah? I don't know. It's just finding a routine and sticking to it. Oh, the pastor routine? The pastor routine, yes. So you didn't stop believing in God?

Nope. Can't be mad at someone you don't believe in. You're mad? You are the calmest mad person I've ever seen. People know when I'm mad. There's a lot of yelling. Yeah, I can see that. I would imagine so. Can you? So you never yell?

No, we're way past yelling. With Sarah, I asked. I asked him for a lot. When she got sick, we asked for a cure. When she got really sick, we asked for more time. And then at the end, I just asked that she wouldn't suffer.

We didn't get any of it, so I don't ask anymore. You have to stop. I didn't recognize you. I didn't know you. Oh, okay, so you only push people you don't know into open graves.

Yes, that's exactly what I do. No, you're lucky I forgive very quickly. Oh, says the guy who gives God the silent treatment.

No, I talk to God all the time. I just don't ask him for anything for myself anymore. Oh, that's very, very altruistic of you. Thank you.

You ask for other people. Yeah. So, you know, good news is if you watch the movie, he pushes into that and eventually does go into a conversation with God. But to me, it just showed what the cost of unforgiveness is with God or really with anybody that we build walls to protect ourselves. We're not going to ask that person for that again, or we're not going to push into that relationship again because I can get hurt.

And, you know, I've got to protect myself. And as a result, you know, we're not needy out loud with God. We don't tell him what we really want because we don't want to go to that place where we're not going to get it again. And the more I thought about that, I just started thinking about how I'm that way with a lot of people that I just don't want because it's a matter of faith. It's like, do you believe that person really is on your side?

Do you really believe that, you know, what has happened to me, God did through faithfulness and faithfulness into me and all things do work together? So, you know, to me, there's a lot of neat stuff in that clip, you know, that the line where he says, you know, how do you get mad at somebody you don't believe in? Well, actually, that line brings her to faith later in the movie because she realized when she's mad at God, she goes, oh, I must believe in him then.

And the point's there. And the other one being, you know, we're way past this point of screaming and yelling, Sam. And, you know, I'll let you speak to that. It's a beautiful thought. Yeah, it's an amazing clip.

I'm actually really intrigued to watch the movie. But the part that he said, you know, she said something about screaming and yelling and he's like, oh, we're way past yelling. And if you've ever been in a relationship that gets to the point of unforgiveness that's way past yelling, it's a very unhopeful place, right? It's a hopeless place. That would be the word I want to use there.

I'm not creating new words. But it's a very hopeless place from the standpoint you just become resigned. It's just this big period of resignation. When there's no passion in it, as long as there's passion and there's yelling, there's at least hope, right? But when I'm at the point where I just don't care and I just don't trust you and I just don't want to hear from you or I don't want to believe or I don't, fill in the blank, that's where it's really the dangerous place. And so he's in a very dangerous place there with God, even though he talks to him every day.

There's not a trusting, loving relationship. And it makes you think about, okay, when I listen to that clip, honestly, I thought about what am I asking God for? You know, am I in that same place?

Do I really ask him for things? Yeah, and that makes, you may think of that scripture in Revelation talking about I wish you were hot or cold, but I don't want you lukewarm. Resignation can take you to a place of lukewarmness, to where there is no passion. God would rather us scream at him than ignore him, I believe, as long as we're expressing ourselves and we allow him to come in and step into that and help us get through that unforgiveness or not being able to really understand what's going on with him. That's a great point. And one of the things that we've talked about on the show before about, I want to make sure we're clear before we wrap this up, God doesn't need our forgiveness. We're not saying God needs to be forgiven of something. What we're saying is that the enemy makes us believe that God's holding out on us, God didn't come through for us, and that we can't forgive him or we'll be in the same place. It's a tool of the enemy.

It's not anything that God really needs to have happen. Go to masculinejourney.org. Register for the upcoming boot camp coming up November 17th through 21st. We do have an entrenchment coming this fall. Check out our website for that. Talk to you next week.