What Makes You Listen After Hours

This is Stu Epperson from the Truth Talk Podcast, connecting current events, pop culture, and theology. And we're so grateful for you that you've chosen the Truth Podcast Network.

It's about to start in just a few seconds. Enjoy it, and please share it around with all your friends. Thanks for listening, and thanks for choosing the Truth Podcast Network. This is the Truth Network. Coming to you from an entrenched barricade deep in the heart of central North Carolina, Masculine Journey After Hours, a time to go deeper and be more transparent on the topic covered on this week's broadcast. So sit back and join us on this adventure. The Masculine Journey After Hours starts here now. Welcome to Masculine Journey After Hours, and this week we are following up on our topic from last week, which was on hearing and listening and understanding and the differences between those. And Robby, this is your topic kind of this week. I would say your show, but I mean your topic for this week. And so what's the topic for this week? The topic is what makes us listen, right?

Like, I think it's an amazing question. What is it that gets your attention in order to listen? And we talked in the first show before hours, not after hours, of love and respect or love and fear. And so how does that play into things? And then, but I also loved what you had mentioned about emotional deposits in our bank account, so to speak. When you get overdrafted, our ears start to shut down.

My older sister was constantly in a state of overdraft when I was younger, as I think about it. Yeah. Yeah, it is. You know, I've been doing a lot of training. One of the things I talk with guys about, you know, it's in client relationships, right?

Looking for the opportunities to make deposits, because there's going to be withdrawals along the way, especially when you're building a house. Something's not going to go right. But it's that way with any relationship, you know? And I equate it to, you know, most of the guys drive pickup trucks. Like, you know, I know you got the buddy that calls you every time they want to borrow the truck. That's the only time you hear from them. When the phone rings, you can almost check it off that they're going to ask to borrow the truck for some reason, right? And so how do you feel about that relationship versus the one that you talk to your friend every day or every few days, and you just talk about life? It's a much different feeling, right? And in those relationships, you're more likely to listen to the one that you feel better about the relationship with, right?

Because the bank account's not overdrawn. Darrell Bock Yeah, which gets to, you know, love to some extent. And that brotherly love kind of thing, or sisterly love, however that works, that if you're in relationship with somebody, that you have a tendency to listen.

And, you know, how critical is it as to be the church that we do develop that skill? Exactly. Now, Andy, you have a clip that ties into this topic in a way?

Andy A little bit, yeah. So I took a classic Top Gun, classic line in it, you'll pick it out. It's the dogfight scene with the Russians and MiGs on the tail of the pilot. But Maverick here, you know, he's had some fights in the past that haven't went well and lost his co-pilot, I guess. And, you know, it just really, I'll talk more about, you know, what it means to me, the clip, but it's really just a dogfight.

To me, it's a parallel with, you know, the fight, the spiritual warfare that we go through, and then how you listen through that. Darrell Bock You ready? Andy Yep. Okay. Come on, kid, hang in there. Maverick, how about some help? Maverick, we got a MiG on our tail. Watch out, watch out.

We just flew right through his jet loss. Get control now, get control. Good recovery now. Okay, let's get in there. Well, we gotta help Ice. Come on, let's get back and engage, Maverick. Come on. It's no good. Get in there, Maverick.

It's no good. Maverick's just engaging. I knew it, Maverick. Get in there, Maverick.

You can't leave him. Come on, Maverick. Maverick's in there. Ice is in trouble. Maverick's re-engaging, sir. I can't get him off my tail. Ice, I've got your MiG dead ahead.

I've got him dead ahead. Good tone. I got good tone. I got tone. I got tone.

Fire it. Do you know what it was the goose said? Hmm, no, but it was good.

Reminded him he had good insurance, so why not? I thought it was engaged. Maybe that's what it was. Robby says I'm stealing his word here. All right, we're in a jovial mood this evening.

I didn't think that was a laugh track. But what it says a lot to me is my mind went to listening to God and what makes me listen to God. And I just think about the battles I fought in the past or the battles I really didn't. No, it's no good.

I'm tapping out too hard. Now it's like no disrespect to God, but it's like talk to me, goose. It's re-engaging when those times when typically in the past I would have run. And I was thinking about, well, how does that tie in with love and respect? And those times I probably didn't have the love and respect for God. I felt it was, you know, I've told you guys I was living kind of with an orphan spirit, but when you see him as your father, what are you going to have for your father?

You're going to have love and respect. Well, then you know that whenever you get in a pinch, whenever you get in a dog fight, whenever you get in a dog fight that you can go to him and get those words, whatever it was that goose said to Maverick to get him to re-engage, it was powerful and made things happen. And I personally experienced it.

There are times when I just typically would have tapped out that I don't tap out any longer. I think I know what you said besides Aflac. What's that? I think he said you have what it takes. Yeah, there you go. Because, you know, when you think back to that relationship that he had with Maverick, he clearly felt like Maverick had what it took. Yeah, he did. And had complete faith in him, even to the point that he risked his life, you know, obviously, as his co-pilot. Yeah, he was his weapons officer. Good point.

Yeah, our almost Navy pilot is sharing. Well, he would, but I, you know, I think that it's, how many times has somebody in your life, I mean, yes, it's wonderful when God chimes in, but often it's you guys. Yeah, that's true too, yeah. That is saying, look, you have what it takes, get in there.

Yeah. If it's somebody that I don't love and respect, and they tell me I have what it takes, or yeah, you can do it, doesn't mean it. But when it comes from you guys or from somebody, a spiritual brother or whatever who knows me, knows my story, and they say that, then I believe it. You know, you're saying you don't mean disrespect to God, you know, I'm calling him goose. But, you know, and I've shared this before, and John Eldridge brought it up, that the terminology on a wild goose chase, the people in Ireland call the Holy Spirit the wild goose. And so when you're on a wild goose chase, you're following the Holy Spirit. And so when you're saying, talk to me, goose, you're really saying, Holy Spirit, I need to hear your recovery.

Yeah, I forgot about that. Really good recovery, Sam. I gotta give you credit. That was excellent. And then Affleck. Yeah.

So Danny, do you have anything you want to add to this? What's with Ben Affleck in that movie? Ben Affleck, he was considered.

I don't think Ben Affleck could play goose. I just don't think it would work. I think there's some rule against that.

I don't know. I'm not saying you have to have something, Danny. I was just asking, because I got Rodney over here.

He doesn't want to say anything. I was just thinking, you know, woke up kind of this morning with a lot on my plate with the death of my mother and going through some of this stuff. And I kind of threw a needy out loud to you guys.

And you guys pouring back into me. That is awesome. And somewhere, and of course, there's a song that goes, I won't sing it, I promise.

That'll end all this show, I'm just saying. But it says, way maker, miracle worker, that is who you are. And it's talking to God. And when I'm reminded of, and I was looking for the scripture where Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, and the life. And when I'm reminded of who's on my side, because I forget in the battle, I forget and I withdraw. But when I'm reminded that he's for me and not against me, and he called me to these things, and he brought me to such a time as this, then I'm reminded that you do have what it takes. And I hear it through my brothers. I hear it through my wife. And you do have what it takes. So it's good.

Thank you. So who are you guys most likely to listen to? Well, for me, it depends on the topic. If it's a biblical topic, I'm going to listen to the person that knows the Bible. If they start talking about stuff that I can't substantiate out of the Bible, I'm gone. They're on a trip I'm not taking. If it's on some non-biblical subject, then it better be logical.

I had nearly 44 years working in computer programming and systems analysis. I'm big on logic. So if somebody starts talking about stuff that's just totally absurd... I'll throw one at you though, Harold.

Go for it. It's one of your best friends. I know, because he's my best friend, one of my best friends. Of course, all these guys are, but somebody that's not usually on the show, because he would never be... because he didn't want to be a public speaker. But you listen, and rarely is he completely logical.

And you wouldn't call him a biblical scholar, but I've never seen you not listen to the man. And you know who I'm talking about. I think I do. Okay.

Who? Does he meet with us on Thursday morning? Every Thursday morning. Yeah.

Well, a lot of the time I'm just being polite. Seriously? Yes.

Yeah, I mean, I respect the man, and I wish the best for him, but sometimes he's a total flake. Are you talking about Tom or Gaither? Tom. Okay. Well, this is great. This is real talk? Here they are.

This is real after hours here, pal. I'm just saying. Where I was going was Gaither, but he went to Tom. Yeah. But nonetheless, let's just go back to who I was thinking about. I should have said that.

I didn't think about the wild card that I might have played that I did. But nonetheless, right? Am I right, though, you listen to Gaither? Oh, yeah. And if he said something. And so just between the two, I would say Tom probably knows his Bible better than Gaither, just to talk at me, you know.

But of the two, you would listen to Gaither any day of the week, wouldn't you? Depending on the subject. Yeah. I can be a hard case, if you hadn't noticed. I have noticed? Yeah, your shirt kind of says it all. You want to read it?

Yeah, it says I'm 80. So when it seems like I don't care, it's because I literally do not care. So yeah, you can be a little bit of hard case. You're killing me, Smalls.

You're killing me, Smalls. That's right. You know, I think part of the topic of Gaither is you have a person, if you don't know Gaither, which a lot of you don't, obviously, is he doesn't really say a whole lot. You know, and I think that's part of it. When you have somebody that doesn't say a whole lot, you know, not talking all the time, who consistently has input on something, you're more apt to listen to them than if they just talk all the time. You know, because I do have some friends that talk, and it seems nonstop, right? And it's hard to know when to engage and when not to engage, because I can't stay engaged that long, right? And so I think part of it is just how they carry themselves is a part of that if they're quiet, but when they speak, they have a lot to say, I'm definitely going to listen. Yeah, and in my case, I guess I've known Gaither longer, I guess, than anybody in the room. But, and so for years and years and years and years, when you look up the word faithful, when you look up the words reliable, when you look up the words generous, in other words, this guy meets all those criteria and having time and time and time and time again in your life, and you end up with this love and respect from my standpoint, those qualities trump most any, you know, like this is where he's coming from, and so he completely has my ear.

Mine too. Yeah, I know. I know. We got off the track a little bit with Tom, but you got to admit there's times that you would listen to Tom. Oh, I enjoy it when he starts talking on something he knows.

Right? Oh, yeah. But that was an interesting study.

It was. As you can tell, we're not scripted on this portion of the show. And we're honest. And we're honest.

Yeah, exactly. And are you listening? Very listening. Yeah, some of, for me, I'm more apt to listen to somebody that I know listens to me. You know, if I get the impression that they're just listening to have the next response, I'm going to check out. You know, I'm not really going to do that, but they're investing in that listening relationship. I am a lot more apt. And if we're working towards resolution, you know, for me, resolution, you know, being a man, you know, we like to try to fix things. And for me, when we're having a conversation that's working towards a resolution, most of the time, I'm pretty engaged.

Right? But if we're just talking about the problem and there's no real resolution in it, I'm like, I got no reason for this. You know, in my head, it's illogical. It doesn't make sense.

There's no logic to it at that point. There used to be a sign on the wall at the corporate office where I used to work. And I know it's not original to there, but it says people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. And I've always loved that because, you know, if I know someone cares about the topic and me, I'm more apt to listen to them. So, you know, one of the things I want to add to that too was aside from just dealing with life and all that, what makes me listen, I think, and this goes totally probably off course, but it's similar to what Danny was saying, is hearing other people's story instead of just getting a bunch of information, hearing y'all's story. Or, you know, what makes me listen in church? You know, we all got to have the scripture. We got to have the doctrine.

We got to have that. Well, when that pastor starts giving a story about something that he's experienced, my ears perk up. Yeah, I have no interest in listening to a pastor that doesn't share personal experience from the Bible. Yes, I want a biblical reference, but it's the application, right? And so I've always been drawn to pastors that will speak from, you know, how they've overcome or how they've struggled or how, you know, God's helped them through a thing because it makes me have hope, right? I can read the scripture, you know, just as well as somebody can read it to me.

Obviously, they can help me interpret it, but really, it's the application portion that's key, right? So a little bit separate question, what makes you not listen? Other than me talking, apparently. Stupidity. Stupidity, right? Ignorance, you know, sometimes, sometimes it's willful ignorance, you know?

That's one for me. You know, and I struggle with this because I know that I wish I could listen, but when I detect somebody's posing or I detect that the reason that they're speaking is so that they can be the center of attention, right? That the reason for this conversation right this minute doesn't have to do with, you know, anything of value, that essentially, then I really struggle. I really struggle, especially with people that I see that they're posing, and the reason for that posing, again, is to make them look good, and I'm not, you know, when I lose respect, then it's just a real struggle for me, right?

Darrell Bock Mm-hmm, it is. Darrell Bock And unfortunately, in my line of work, you know, and you're a talk show host, you just picture this, you know, to be completely honest and transparent, like, you know, when you put a microphone in front of somebody, you know, quite often, this is their opportunity to look good, right? And when I see them take it off, and I'm trying to ask them a question, like, here's the question I asked you, and they take off on their little, you know, whatever that may be, and I'm left in the dirt somewhere, and I keep going back to the question, and it's very difficult, because, you know, I sense the listeners are going off with me, like, you guys are with me, because you just heard what I heard, this person's, you know, on their agenda, rather than on God's agenda, and that's really hard, and so it's a challenge, where really, I want to go back to what Andy said, that, you know, I'm like, talk to me, Goose. I mean, if you can picture this, you're on the radio, you're the host, and you're like, talk to me, Goose, where are we going here, because this isn't, you know, this isn't good, and I hope to be on my game more, where, you know, Goose, the wild goose, not Aflac, not Ben Aflac, he actually says, you know, stuff, that's quite helpful at times.

I mean, always. Yeah, one thing that's helped me try to be a better listener, honestly, is work. You know, in building houses, virtually every slab will get a crack in it, in the concrete, and that's a big concern for people, you know, but you'll get the same question from people all the time, did you see the crack in my slab? But unless you know the question under the question, you really don't know how to answer it, so you have to probe, and you have to listen, and you have to ask, you know, what about that concerns you? Well, I think my house is gonna fall down, okay, now I know how to approach it. Well, I think that it was improperly put in, okay, now I know how to approach it, right?

And sometimes asking more questions helps you be a better listener, because then you can get more information to really go where their concern really is. So, Sam, did you see the crack in my slab? Yeah, what was it about that that concerns you, Robby? I've seen your crack. Yeah, it was significant, yeah. Welcome to Masculine Journey, after, after, after hours.

Yeah, I did see the crack in the slab. I want to follow that, you know what I mean? Hey, you ain't got nothing.

I got nothing. No, being on the phone with guys working on stuff is what I do, tech support, and I've had to learn to listen to what they're saying, because people will, believe it or not, give you bad information. But, and then there's the aspect of, there's a, there's a guy in another department that he just is determined that he's the smartest guy on the planet, and that's the way he approaches every conversation.

And most of the guys in our department don't even want to deal with him. But he knows the equipment, but he wants you to know that he knows the equipment. He knows more than you, so sometimes it's just hard to listen. You see the crack in his slab. You see the crack in his slab.

I'm scared his house is going to fall down. He's cracking the facade, man. You know exactly what's going on. I think probably sometimes I don't do enough of the active listening or the asking questions. I will say, though, that my, probably that, if my improvements come from anything, it has come from me asking God questions, and then, therefore, I'll ask people questions. I still have a tendency to, you know, assume I know what they are going to say or what's in their heart or whatever. And I know that can be a bad thing, you know, and something I need to work on.

But, you know, I don't know. It's something you get used to over time of a particular way to communicate. And, you know, it really does take listening to God to get guidance on how to handle those conversations.

You know, there's a saying that nature abhors a vacuum. And I think the corollary to that is that most people abhor silence. And if you just remain silent, you'll get more information because people, most people can't stand to look at you and not say something. And if you give him a really weird stare like I do to Andy, he gets mad when I don't say anything and I just stare at him like I don't understand, you know, you could also get the reaction out of people that you want. I think part of the question becomes, how can I be a better listener, right? You know, how can I engage, you know, to use Robby's word and the goose's word, right?

How can I engage in this? How do I stay emotionally in a good place, especially in a situation when it feels very attacking, right? I have a hard time listening if someone's being very volatile with me, right?

I don't have a whole lot of desire to listen to them at that point when they can calm down, you know, and then I'll come back and talk to them. But sometimes you have to put that aside and try to work through it, even in their volatility. How to avoid not trying to fix it, you know, as y'all, we've talked on the radio, you hear it many times about it's not about the nail, it's not about the nail, it's the scene where the girl's got a nail in her head and the guy's trying to give her guidance on, you know, how, if she'd just get that thing out of there, her problems would be better. And, you know, he's just trying to fix it. And she's like, don't try to fix me. You know, a lot of times that's where we go to, is just trying to fix it as men. You were talking about it earlier, we are fixers. And I think sometimes as men, we don't want to hear the fix either. We just want to be heard. I can promise you that we always want to be heard. Oh, absolutely. Right, that's without question. There's validation that comes from that. Yeah, and maybe I don't want a resolution right now, I just want a friend to listen.

Yeah. Right, and being able to walk that line of knowing when is that the situation where I need to give advice? Where do I need to say, you know, you have what it takes?

When do I need to say I'm praying? All those kinds of things. And that comes from the... When to say get off your butt and take responsibility.

Exactly, that comes from the goose, right? That's when God tells us, hey, this is what you got, right? Because I don't mean that disrespectfully.

I mean that very respectfully. So go to masculinejourney.org, register for the upcoming boot camp. God's got some amazing things to tell you at this boot camp.

And I know you have the ears to listen. All you gotta do is listen right now and go register. Masculinejourney.org. We'll talk to you next week. And please remember, it's November 18th through 21st, right before Thanksgiving. Not a better time to go to boot camp than this year. Go this year, November 18th through 21st. Masculinejourney.org. This is the Truth Network.