Disciplined by the World After Hours

Hi, I'm Matthew. My co-hosts, Brianna, Michael, Paul, and I have found life beyond Mormonism to be brighter than we were told it would be. Join us for discussions about our journeys from Mormon to Jesus. I'm Brianna from the Outer Brightness Podcast. Your chosen Truth Network Podcast is starting in just a few seconds. Enjoy it, share it, but most of all, thank you for listening to the Truth Podcast Network. Coming to you from an entrenched barricade deep in the heart of central North Carolina, Masculine Journey After Hours, a time to go deeper and be more transparent on the topic covered on this week's broadcast.

So sit back and join us on this adventure. The Masculine Journey After Hours starts here now. Welcome to Masculine Journey After Hours, and we are talking this week on a follow-up to last week's show. So Andy, can you tell us about last week's show a little bit?

Yeah, it'll be a little bit. I got a little lengthy last time. It was last time we just talked about, you know, just discipleship and discipleship from the heart. And really it got down to really who you're listening to and are you trying to be discipled in a way of just trying to obtain something and try to do something instead of just, you know, being in a relationship with Jesus and letting him lead.

And doing what he said, come follow me. Yeah, discipleship comes walking so close to your, whatever it is, rabbi, thank you, that you get their dust of whatever they stepped in all over you. That's the intimacy, the closeness that we're talking about is are you walking in that closeness with Jesus? And the follow-up this week is there's another voice out there, there's other voices out there clamoring at you, not just Jesus' voice, you know, it's the voice of the world that the enemy kind of throws at you. And one of the things that the enemy likes to do is steal your perception of who Jesus really is. So, Andy, that's going to lead us to a clip from Vintage 21 Church in Raleigh that they did several years ago now on Jesus.

You want to tell us a little bit about it? Well, on the previous show we played a lot of commercials and the commercials are, you know, it's what we're taught through almost in this day and age, whether we know it or not, and that's the voice that we're listening to. And this, speaking of commercials, this is a commercial for how we perceive, you know, in the way we live life, it's kind of how we perceive Jesus. It's obviously not what we see in the Bible. It's, I think, comes from the story, the greatest story ever told is, if you use a video, that's the video part, and it's just an overlay of voices on Jesus and his disciples. Yeah, and it's the way the world wants you to look at Jesus and how he looks at you.

Do you think he can fly? Here he comes. Well, all right. Now it's time for me to tell you all what you've done wrong since I last saw you. And don't try and hide because I'm Jesus.

I will find you. Let's start with you, Peter. You lied to your mother the other day. Andrew, you said a naughty word when you hit your finger with the hammer. James, you laughed at him when he hit his finger. Moving right along, John, you drank too much wine the other night.

Not way too much, just enough to make me angry. Matthew, we fell asleep in church, didn't we? Yes, we did. And Thomas, you were slow dancing a little too close with that girlfriend of yours. Let's see.

And you? I forgot your name, so you're off the hook for now. Philip, I saw you smoking a cigarette behind that big rock the other day. Thaddeus, I hate to say I saw you stick up your middle finger at someone who cut you off when you were riding your camel.

Benjamin, you aren't wearing your WWJD bracelet. Jacob, I don't mind you saying my name, but not after you stub your toe. Frank, you know what you did. I just can't repeat it because I'm Jesus. All right, all you sinners, come with me. It's time to pay the piper. Man, it was only one cigarette.

I heard that. I know that seems like it's a little far out there, but when you really listen to it, it's what the world tries to tell you about Jesus, about God, about the Bible. That it's just judgmental, that there's no relationship there, that there's no feelings there.

It's all just about checks and balances. No mercy, no understanding, no relationship, really. There's not much relationship in there.

There's a lot of judging, though. So understanding how to step away from letting the world disciple you means you've got to get a clearer picture of Jesus, and that's not it. That's as opposite as you can get from Jesus. If you want to go watch something on YouTube, go to The Two Roads by John Lynch. And when it gets to the section on there where it talks about looking at your sin with Jesus, that's more what Jesus is like, right?

And so you can go do the homework and go do that. It's a pretty awesome little video. It's, what, 15 minutes or so.

And it rocked my world, changed a lot of things that I saw. But in order to step away from the world, we've got to step towards something that's worthwhile to step towards, too. But that first road is so good. It is. It is.

And I think that that's what we need to look at doing, stepping away from the world, because a lot of what we've talked about on the previous show was just this whole I deserve fill in the blank, right? And that's what you hear. That's what you see. That's everything that's going on in society and has been.

It's just escalated. Yeah, and I think the trap in that was that speaks to your flesh. That speaks to finding life outside of God. And that is the trap we all live in. Ever since the day we were born, that's what the enemy has been trying to do. And it's refreshing to get a different perspective on that, a voice that actually tells you, don't do everything your flesh wants.

Go help somebody else and see how you feel then. And the Scripture talks about those who will seek to save their life will lose it, and those who will lose their life for the benefit of the gospel. And Jesus, they'll actually save their life. And to me, I never really understood that. But to me, that whole saving your life is basically doing it the world's way. You're trying to get life out of whatever appeals to your flesh or to what everybody else is doing instead of getting life from God.

Yeah, I think that a lot of times people are looking to, they want to be the judge and jury along with it. And I have those feelings, right? When I feel like I've been wronged, I definitely have those feelings. But it's learning to be able to step away from that and say, okay, God, you're the judge, right?

I need you to guide me through how to deal with this. You had mentioned in the previous show about the check engine light, so to speak. Like, how do I know that I'm listening to the world rather than listening to God? And we talk about it at boot camp all the time. If you're listening for the voice of God and you feel condemnation in any way, shape, or form, I mean, it's like that check engine light's flashing or you've checked your diff stick and you're four quarts low. I mean, literally there's not enough oil of the Spirit or you would know that there's a big, huge difference between repentance or being convicted by the Holy Spirit versus condemnation or feeling condemned for your behavior or those kind of things. But one of the beautiful things is you think about repentance and the way that God really wants it is to turn to him and help him, like you said, like John Lynch, put his arm around you and say, okay, let's work, you know, we're going to work through this. But he's right there with you and he's not on the other side of your sin. And that's the big, huge message.

Yeah, it is. You know, I think that there's so many times, my gauge, you talk about, you know, the gauge, when my temples are pounding and I can feel my blood pressure up, it's probably a good time to say, God, what am I so upset about? What am I so angry about?

What am I so this about? Really, I need perspective, right? Larger story, smaller story.

I am so far down in the weeds in the smaller story right now that I can't really see what's going on. Maybe that person ahead of me is having the worst day of their life. They're on their way to the hospital. I don't know what's going on in their life, but I've pronounced judgment on them, right? At best, they're an idiot. At best, right? It could be a lot of other words that are changed, but at best, they're an idiot. I didn't really want to say this, but Robby was talking about me in the earlier show and I was behind a complete idiot. That's about as far as I go. I do that, get in, laugh out of you.

Yeah, but we do and the people I judge harshest are usually those that I see judging others that are beneath them and the concept of power. My wife and I love cruising. Haven't been since last January.

Thanks to C19. You like going on cruises. Going on, oh, cruising is something else. See, I am so innocent and good.

I don't even know your reference. I think that's a different terminology these days, so I would say going on cruises. Going on cruises.

We like getting on big boats that are very expensive with people that can afford it even though we can't, but we usually manage because we love it. But on there, we encounter the greatest servants you're ever going to see, and 99% of them are from smaller countries, usually poor countries, and they might be posing, but they have everything that you see in them is this is a person who loves to serve others. And then you see rude Americans and sometimes other nationalities that, you know, you didn't do this right. And I will often there, because they're strangers and I get away with it, challenge them.

I said, well, you know, this person, and I don't know if you're a Christian or not, but aren't they doing the best thing? I mean, we're indulging. We're here on a ship having a good time indulging ourselves, and they are serving us. And I will often tell the staff, well, what can I do for you? Because, oh, you can't, you can't, you can't. I mean, it almost scares them that anybody would want to serve them. But there's a love there that that's part of the desire to be on the cruises. And sometimes I'm embarrassed to be a guest instead of one of the folks working there. I don't think you could work there. You're kind of tall. It would be a problem, because they get tiny little cabins.

Yeah, they do. Robby, you have a clip that'll give us some things to probably discuss. Oh, yeah, it's a challenging clip.

I actually spotted it about three weeks ago. It's been challenging me for three weeks of how I should respond to this interchange or what I should think. And, you know, since there's a talk show host in it, I felt it's certainly related. It's from the TV show The West Wing. And this person is playing the President of the United States is fairly arrogant.

I guess that's a good way to put it. And he challenges this talk show host, specifically challenges her on the Bible. What you can't see from the clip that I think is important when you're hearing is, first of all, he's very bothered that she is sitting.

Everybody else in the room is standing. And since she is sitting, he feels totally disrespected. And, you know, she looks like she's the arrogant one as you begin to see the way that this is portrayed. And he's at the point in this clip, he's in an election where he is apparently trying to explain to his staff members how he is going to beat his opponent. And so at the end, when he says, that's how I'll beat him, he's making reference to the opponent that he's in the middle of a contest with.

But play the clip, and I think everybody would be challenged enough. The President of the United States. I'm sorry. You're Dr. Jenna Jacobs, right? Yes, sir.

It's good to have you here. Thank you. Forgive me, Dr. Jacobs. Are you an MD? A PhD. A PhD? Yes, sir. In psychology? No, sir. Theology? No. Social work? I have a PhD in English literature. I'm asking because on your show people call in for advice and you go by the name Dr. Jacobs on your show and I didn't know if maybe your listeners were confused by that and assumed you had advanced training in psychology, theology or healthcare. I don't believe they are confused, no, sir. Good.

I like your show. I like how you call homosexuality an abomination. I don't say homosexuality is an abomination, Mr. President. The Bible does.

Yes, it does. Leviticus. 1822.

Chapter and verse. I wanted to ask you a couple of questions while I had you here. I'm interested in selling my youngest daughter into slavery, a sanction in Exodus 21, 7.

What would a good price for her be? While thinking about that, can I ask another? My chief of staff, Leo McGarry, insist on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35, 2 clearly says he should be put to death.

Am I morally obligated to kill him myself or is it okay to call the police? Here's one that's really important because we've got a lot of sports fans in this town. Touching the skin of a dead pig makes one unclean.

Leviticus 11, 7. If they promise to wear gloves, can the Washington Redskins still play football? Can Notre Dame? Can West Point? Can I burn my mother in a small family gathering?

For wearing garments made from two different threads. Think about those questions, would you? One last thing.

While you may be mistaken this for your monthly meeting of the ignorant tight club in this building when the president stands, nobody sits. Toby. Yes, Mr. President.

That's how I beat him. So, you know, as you listen to that clip, I'm sure if you love the Bible as I do and love the Lord as you do that you can't help but be challenged in a lot of ways but as the more I process the clip, we use a clip from the movie Good Will Hunting all the time and one where you're doing the poser talk and we've used it on the show several times where a guy in a Harvard bar insults Will's friend and hears this big challenge, again very similar to this interchange of knowledge and the idea that Paul teaches is that knowledge puffs up and love builds up. And so I love that you played the pasty Jesus clip at the beginning because we're talking about a leader here and when you think about it, you know, what kind of leader would Jesus be and can you ever see him in that role that you just heard or does that actually, that come off as arrogant to you and then what would you say as a Christian to the world as they're screaming at you that you're part of the ignorant club, right?

That this woman has her PhD but she's still ignorant, right? And the Bible's irrelevant because, you know, all this outdated material so-called is what he is attempting to illustrate. So as you find yourself in that position and you're sitting there, what would Jesus say, what would you say in response to this interchange if you find yourself in that position or more importantly, how do you really feel about those things, right? Because you're checking your own engine light like do I feel the Bible's outdated? Do I feel like I really don't know, you know, do I feel ignorant? Do I feel lesser than these people that hold this stuff over me? You know, where do you find yourself?

And it's a great place. I really enjoyed it for the last three weeks, you know, as challenging myself with this and actually got some help from God eventually, Sam, because, you know, God came to my rescue and said, Robby, look at this verse. And he specifically took me to Isaiah 6-10 which talked about speak to them and make their hearts fat so that they will have ears and they won't hear and they'll have eyes that they won't see so they won't turn and be healed. And it speaks again to the point that if we're so full of ourselves that we don't need God, that we think we know what the Bible should say more than God thought it should say, right? Or if we think, you know, in any way, shape or form that we don't need God because we've got this thing under control, whether that's going down the road, Sam, or, you know, when that next customer calls and says something, you know, that just catches you off guard, you know, it's just all these places, but it really gets at the heart of the fact that, man, to be a disciple of Jesus really means to lean on him a whole lot.

It does. You know, you'd ask a question in there, you know, how would you respond? And my initial thing was I'll tell you in three weeks when I've had time to process it. But I think it depends on the interchange that you're in. You know, if you're in an interchange like you played in that clip, there is no real response because he's just looking for fodder, you know, to tear you down some more, right? But if it's a conversation and, you know, someone brings up the whole selling your daughter into slavery, you know, Robby, I think you had a great point. The term for slavery is not the way we interpret it today, right? That meant more like an indentured servant, I think you were saying. Right. And culturally, it's a completely different time.

And you're not in a position to feed your daughter. And so what exactly is it that you do in this culture? And it's pretty easy for us to figure all that out. But, you know, God used the Bible to instruct these people in a specific time in specific ways based on his purposes, which number one, I don't understand the culture. And number two, I certainly am not completely clear on what all God's requirements were for a people to be able to have his son. Right? This is what the Jesus function was going to be, was to be the line of Christ. And the holiness that would be required in order for God to tabernacle with them is something that we aren't in that anymore.

So it's a challenge. You could really tell that was an older clip for a couple reasons. You know, one, the name of the Washington football team has changed in the last year or so. And they actually haven't played football in a long time. They're out there every Sunday.

The question is, have they ever? I'm sorry, Dennis, if you're listening. Yeah, back with John Riggins and some of the people were there. But, yeah, not for a while. There goes our Virginia and Maryland audience. Thanks, Sam. Oh, they've learned how it feels to be a Washington football team fan. They know what that's like.

So, Andy, how would you answer those questions? You know, it's tough, right? Because the world is trying to scream at us that the Bible's outdated. Yeah.

Right? But it's timeless, too. And you don't have to necessarily answer, Jim. You can jump in. But it's timeless.

How can it be outdated? Yeah, it is. You know, there are things. I'm not going to try to be God. I don't know what exactly was in his mind. I know that I can trust his word from whenever I believe what's been given to me.

I know that he, you know, for example, I mean, he has certain things, a way a family should operate and look, and those things that have been to stand the test of time. But, you know, the enemy tries to trip us up and use the Bible. I mean, he did it to Jesus. He tried to quote the Bible to Jesus in his temptation and to get him to go down a path.

And the world will try to do that with us as well. We do need to know truth. We do need to know context. And I believe the closer we walk with him, we'll be able to give those answers. But there are some answers. I'm not going to try to stand in for God and say what his mind is. I can repeat what he says in a particular instance, but I'm not going to be the one that actually speaks for him and explains what was actually in his mind. Yeah.

Go ahead, Harold. If there's something that seems to be a problem, it's not a problem with the Bible. It's a problem with our understanding. It's our ignorance of things like you just mentioned.

Those commands were given to a specific people at a specific time. And so you have to take things in the right context and try to understand them that way. And I think it's also a journey with God. I know I've shared on here a long time ago, but there was a season when I was going through the Bible. I had just finished some reading I was doing, and I'm like, okay, God, what do you want to go through now? He's like, Genesis.

I'm like, why? I've been through Genesis like a bunch of times, right? Why do I want to go back through Genesis?

All right, I'll do it. Genesis. No, Exodus.

He wants you to go. Oh, through Exodus. Yeah, you're right. First of all, I wanted you to learn which book was which. Hey, I learned the stories.

So he told Robby on the sides. Yeah. All right, so Exodus. It was Exodus. It was Exodus.

Thank you, Robby. It was Exodus. And so I'm reading through there, and I get to this part that I had skimmed over in the past, and it says that the Lord hardened Pharaoh's heart. And I was angry. Oh, my gosh, I was so angry. And it was more reflecting on my own. Am I going to be bad enough like the Pharaoh that you're going to harden my heart?

Right? That's really what I wasn't articulating, but that's why I was so angry. And so I was like, God, why would you harden somebody's heart? And I stuck with it. I didn't read for a while because I was mad, right?

And I would come back to it. God, why did you harden his heart? Why did you harden his heart? And at some point, I just realized that God knew the end of the story for the Pharaoh. And if he knew that he was never going to change, right, the way he could get his people free from him is to go ahead and expedite things, right?

Because he knows what's going to happen beginning, end, middle, and end, right? And so it became a point where God let me have peace in the midst of me allowing him to be God and me not fully understanding, beginning to a point where he was gracious enough to say, look at it this way, right? And I was able to move past a point that I didn't understand that didn't make sense to me. And actually, he helped guide me back to what the real issue was. I was more worried about my own heart and needed to walk closer with him in the midst of it. Jim, did you have something you wanted to say? I did, but I totally forgot what it was because you had such a compelling story there.

Well, thank you. Exodus, not Genesis. Apparently it's Exodus, not Genesis. Well, and interestingly, this is the same word that God gave me in Isaiah 6 then where he said to make their hearts fat. That word fat, again, and this is a fascinating word that harden and fat are the same word in Hebrew, which also happens to be the word that when it says honor your father and mother, that word honor right there, it's the same word as harden, Pharaoh's heart, and it is the same thing as the fat heart. But the idea is a value of richness.

And it's, interestingly, the exact opposite of poor, and it speaks right to the heart of, I think, whether you're talking about it doesn't get any better than this because of old Milwaukee or have it your way, that the idea is that you need to be self-made, rich. And the idea is poor in spirit. Yeah, one thing that I wanted to leave us with is Jesus commanded us one thing when he left. Love one another, love your father, love our father right, love one another. If we loved one another more like we're called to, maybe the world would be more apt to follow Jesus and not apt to follow the world, right? I mean, the people in the world would say, look, there's something more here that I want, more life, more healing, more of everything that's really true here, but it takes us stepping out and loving them in the midst of where they are. So go love somebody this week and help them follow Jesus. This is the Truth Network.