Evangelicals for Harris?

If you claim to be an Evangelical for Harris or a Christian for Harris, you get to call in and tell us why today. It's time for the Line of Fire with your host, biblical scholar and cultural commentator, Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity. Call 866-34-TRUTH to get on the Line of Fire.

And now, here's your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Can a Christian, a born-again Christian, a Bible-loving, Jesus-loving Christian, in good conscience vote for Donald Trump with all of his issues and failings and some of the policies of the Republican Party? Conversely, can a committed Christian vote for Kamala Harris and the Democrats given their policies, given their viewpoints? Is this a matter of the faith? Where do we stand on this? I'm going to address this question focusing on, can a true follower of Jesus vote for Kamala Harris as President? Vote for the Democratic agenda?

Can a true follower of Jesus do this in good conscience before God? Here's the number to call, 866-34-TRUTH, 866-348-7884. I would love to hear from you who say we are Jesus lovers, we love the word of God, we hold to biblical values, and therefore, we are voting for Kamala Harris rather than Donald Trump. The phone lines open to you. I'm not going to argue with you or debate you. I may have follow-up questions, but this is where you get to weigh in. If you're watching on YouTube or Facebook and would rather post your views rather than call in, maybe you're not able to call in, maybe you just prefer doing it in written form, we'll try to read some comments as well posted in the YouTube chat or the Facebook chat.

Ideally, we'd love to hear from you at 866-348-7884. I recently did a broadcast in which I said that I could not in good conscience as a follower of Jesus vote for Kamala Harris and the Democrats simply because of their commitment to reinstate Roe v. Wade, to make it again federal law which would then overturn all pro-life laws that have been passed throughout America and then would once again make a statement to the nation that this is the right way, that Roe v. Wade is normative and is the right way. There are many other democratic policies I strongly oppose, but that one alone, because it touches the most innocent, the most vulnerable, that one alone because of what the Bible says about the shedding of innocent blood and doing anything to harm the little ones, that one issue alone is sufficient for me to say, I'm not telling you what you can and can't do, but for me to say, under no circumstances could I vote for Kamala Harris. Now, I understand the many issues with Donald Trump.

I understand his own pro-life views are much softer now than they were when he appointed three justices who helped overturn Roe v. Wade who were instrumental in overturning Roe v. Wade. I understand that. I understand the issues with his lying. I understand the issues of his character assassination of others, etc. I get that.

I understand what Proverbs says about the power of the tongue and what other verses say about the power of the tongue and the damage that can come through that. So, if I were to vote for Donald Trump a third time, my biggest reason for voting for him would be to vote against the democratic policies that I so abhor, to vote against the agenda that Kamala Harris has stood for over the years. And that would also include standing against our rights in favor of radical LGBTQ extremism. These are some of the reasons why, if I did vote for Trump a third time, it would be based on that. It would be strongly a vote against Kamala Harris.

Now, again, I understand the arguments. I wrote an article where I quoted from my book, Evangelicals at the Crossroads Will We Pass the Trump Test, which came out in 2020. And in that book and in the article, which asked the question, can a vote for Trump be morally justified?

You can read it on the line of fire dot org. I said, yeah, I know that the Southern Baptists during the presidency of Bill Clinton in 1998 passed a major resolution in which they stated that moral character matters to God and should matter to all citizens, especially God's people when choosing public leaders. So those it wasn't just policy.

It was conduct. It was character. The resolution urged, quote, all Americans to embrace and act on the conviction that character does count in public office and to elect those officials and candidates who, although imperfect, demonstrate consistent honesty, moral purity and the highest character. Some people said, well, we're electing a president, not a not a pastor, not a priest, et cetera.

I understand the argument. There's truth to it. However, character does count. I did a survey, oh, probably 10 years ago during a presidential election, and I asked what matters most. And I gave a list and I said, what matters most to you in terms of voting for president? And the thing that came up the highest was character slash integrity that might have mattered more to policy.

And then it seemed that that many evangelicals, especially many white evangelicals, made a shift. And we came to Donald Trump said, yeah, we don't like a lot of things about his character, but he's going to fight for us and do what's right and fight for what's best for America. Therefore, we'll vote for him to understand to the watching world. Many felt that was hypocritical, that that was contradictory to stances we had taken in the past. And that's why many on the outside were shocked, both Christian and non-Christian, that so many followers of Jesus voted for Trump because of the perceived character integrity issues, even if the immorality was in the past, et cetera. Still looking at the man, you say, OK, I'm not looking at him as a role model and character model. I remember a call, I think in the 2020 elections, a call we got here on the line of fire where the brother said this. He said, if I had a daughter, I wouldn't want her to marry Donald Trump. If I had a business, I wouldn't want Donald Trump to lead the business. Why would I want him to lead the country? I get it. I understand it.

Those who say, come on, you're being petty. Look at all the good he did. Look at the lives that were saved. Look at the international policy. Look at pushing back against international terrorism, standing with Israel, overturning Roe v. Wade, on and on. How can you even compare them? So I get it.

I understand it. Now there is a movement, though, evangelicals for Harris, evangelicals for Harris. There was a previous movement of pro-life Christians for Biden, and they actually thought that they could influence them and shift his views. It was really quite an embarrassment when they when there were some fine people that signed on to that, some well-known, highly respected Christian leaders that signed on to it. Of course, I challenged it publicly. I very publicly called it out and said, how can you do that?

How can you say you're pro-life and vote in this way? They actually expressed extreme disappointment when President Biden re-entrenched his views and then even went in a more radical direction about abortion. They seemed genuinely surprised. And I thought, you fine people, but you've been duped. And it's happened on all sides. We get duped by leaders. They tell us something or someone in their campaign just throws us a little olive branch and we think, okay, they're just to get our vote, doing it just to get our vote.

So I understand all that. But these Christian leaders were genuinely surprised. And when I went to look for their website again, it was gone. So I want to share with you some of the rationale for the quote evangelicals for Harris. I don't see it. I don't agree with it.

I have profound issue with it. Just like in the days of slavery to me, you had to be a one issue person, a one issue voter. In other words, no matter how good a candidate might have been on five other areas of importance, if they were pro-slavery in conscience as a follower of Jesus, I would say you couldn't vote for them.

Better to vote for an anti-slavery candidate who was weaker on the other issues, but at least would take a moral stand there with the hope that we could have the blessing of God for dealing with the abomination of slavery. Just like if we as a nation could turn in repentance because of the abomination of abortion, we could plead for mercy as we repent it and turn to God. Landon Shaw hopefully is going to join us on the air tomorrow. I've been a mentor in Landon's life since he reached out to me after seeing me on Pierce Morgan in 2013. Then he was just doing traveling youth ministry. Now he's a prominent pastor of Mercy Culture Church in Fort Worth, which has other church plants in other parts of Texas and soon enough in other parts of the country. Billed as megachurch pastor, Landon shot in an article on the Royce report that has the headline says, Texas megachurch pastor, you're not a Christian if you vote for a Democrat.

And Landon posted this. I've been asked over and over, Pastor Landon, are you saying you're not a Christian if you vote for a Democrat? Let me be very clear.

That is correct. He continued all caps. You are not a Bible believing Jesus following Christian if you support the godless Romans one evil of the Democratic Party. Now, I asked Landon to come on the air and join me and talk about that because Landon has spoken out against President Trump. And Landon has publicly said as they worked to see certain legislative bills passed with the Republican Party in Texas, Landon's own words publicly are that the Republican Party in Texas is evil. Those are his own words. He said the Democrats are more evil, but the Republicans are evil, too. So we'll hear more from Landon about this and remarks that have been very controversial, why he said what he said, why he holds to what he holds to.

But one one pastor quoted in the Royce report pushed back. And this pastor had had a comment, which I think is is a good and fair comment, and we'll get Landon's response to it. This this pastor made the statement that, look, we we understand there's bad in both parties. There's good in both parties.

It's Pastor Dwight McKissick. And he said it's impossible to vote for either party or a major party's presidential nominee without engaging in moral compromise. And he said the kingdom of God is not on the ballot and neither is Christ the king. So according to McKissick, both Democrats and Republicans are guilty of unrighteousness. Quote, Our voting decision ought not to be based on our perception of which party or candidate represents righteousness as we weigh or define righteousness, but rather which person that we will believe believe will be best to govern the country and fulfill the responsibilities of government as spelled out in our founding government and governance and aspirational documents. And he pointed out President Trump's thirty four felony convictions, racial discrimination suits, he settles voluntary paths in the vision of sexual assaults. Can he urge people not to question his morality based on his voting decision? Now, of course, Trump supporters would say a lot of the convictions are false.

The racial discrimination things are false. And Trump has been an absolute friend of the black community in America, which is why black voting for Trump went up from 2016 to 2020. The question is, though, what would Pastor McKissick have said during the days of slavery? Would he have justified in any way voting for a pro slavery candidate when the days of segregation, a pro segregation candidate? It's an honest question I'd like to ask because his comments are thoughtful. I'd like to try to reach out and do that.

You come back to hear some folks make the case for evangelicals for Paris. This is Michael Ellison, founder of Trivita Wellness, being aware of the dangers of homocysteine is crucial to protecting our health. This natural occurring amino acid that the body creates plays a vital role. But when elevated in excess, it can pose significant risk to our health. One of the dangers of elevated homocysteine is the impact on cardiovascular health. Research has shown that high homocysteine can contribute to heart disease, stroke and other cardiovascular conditions. Another risk factor.

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Use the code Brown twenty five. Again, I'm opening the phones to those who would say I'm a follower of Jesus. I'm a Bible believer.

I hold to biblical values and I'm voting for Kamala Harris. It's not to insult you. It's not to put you down.

It's not to attack you. If you've listened to this broadcast over the years, you know, we don't do that, especially when I ask for people to call in areas that I differ with. Do do my best to give you a hearing and allow you to explain your views to others. But at this point, I want to go over to a report on CBN with David Brody reporting after Gordon Robinson sets things up. And it's about evangelicals for Harris.

We're going to play a few clips from that. Let's listen. Well, a major effort is underway to convince more Christian voters to help elect Kamala Harris as president. Part of the strategy involves reaching out to conservatives.

Chief political analyst David Brody brings us the story. Since Kamala Harris stepped in to become the Democrat nominee for president, she's enjoyed a wave of positive poll numbers and huge crowds at rallies. If she's to carry that momentum into the fall, however, tapping into the Christian vote could potentially take her to the White House.

The Bible teaches us so much about what we must do to be dutiful, understanding we have a duty to our God and to one another. Raised as a Baptist in San Francisco, Harris's faith is rooted in what is commonly known as the social justice gospel. This human rights approach centers more on Jesus's teaching of compassion for those less fortunate rather than a fundamentalist viewpoint. The quest to promote that message to Christian voters is well underway. Vice President Kamala Harris is a fellow Christian. The group Evangelicals for Harris hosted a Zoom call this month that drew tens of thousands. The founder, Reverend Jim Ball, the former head of a Christian environmental organization, says the group plans to reach beyond a progressive audience. We're trying to reach out to as many conservative folks as we can. Yeah, we try to reach out to websites that are highly visited by Trump supporters, by so-called MAGA Republicans. You think there's an opportunity there?

We do. The group's 200,000 members are focused mainly in swing states. They're planning to spend more than a million dollars on video ads targeting specific Christian households on places like YouTube, Hulu, Apple TV, Google and Facebook.

All right. So here's the ad. I got this in the mail today from the Trump campaign.

You get mail from all sides. And says, Kamala is lying about Trump's position on Project 2025. Here's Trump's real common sense agenda.

And the second point on the list. Let the voters in each state decide their own abortion policies because Kamala Harris has said that Trump will sign a federal ban on abortion. He said repeatedly he wouldn't do that to the disappointment of his pro-life voters. But the pro-life voters look at things and say, well, it's that versus Kamala Harris. Reinforce it with Joe Biden said that they would seek to reinstate Roe v. Wade, but in an even more ironclad way. So, yeah, but on Friday this last week, Truth on Truth Social, Trump's social media platform that he said his administration is going to be great for women's reproductive rights. What? Why even use the term reproductive rights? That's the world's term for abortion. That's number one.

And number two, why are you saying that? You're not going to win pro-abortion people over to your side and you're going to alienate pro-life people. Still, you come down to OK, but to vote for him is a vote against Kamala Harris. So I get it. I understand it.

So here is the ad that has gone out for evangelicals for Harris, starting with Billy Graham and then a clip from Trump. Let's listen. Have you been to the cross and said, Lord, I have sinned. I'm sorry for my sin. I'm willing to change my way of life. Have you ever asked God for forgiveness?

That's a tough question. I'm not sure I have. I just I don't bring God into that picture. I don't.

All right. And it says, is there any greater denial of Christ than to say I do not need his forgiveness? Then the graphic evangelicals for Harris. So I don't know a whole lot of Trump voters that think he really knows the Lord in a deep way. May would say is a baby Christian for Christian at all. I see no evidence that he understands the gospel. A recent interview that he did on Laura Ingram, he talks about faith is important, religion is important, and hey, if you do good, you go to heaven.

If you don't do good, you go to the other place. So I don't see any evidence that he understands the gospel at all. But I don't know many people, maybe hardly any, that think, oh, he's a really strong, committed Christian. That's why I'm voting for Donald Trump. So I understand the purpose of that ad.

But is it punching in the air a little bit? Interestingly, when James Robison sat down and spent over an hour with Trump alone. This is before the 2016 presidency. Spent over an hour with him alone. James texted me and said, OK, I'm about to meet with him.

Pray. He said to Trump. So James has been public about this. So remember you said you never needed to ask God for forgiveness for anything?

He said, how about we make a little list? Trump smiled with acknowledgment. In any case, I would not be voting for Trump because I think he knows the Lord or is a strong Christian or even understands the gospel at all. As for Kamala Harris, I don't have the slightest clue what she really believes, who she really is. Remember when President Obama was running for president the first time around. So 2008, when he was asked in a debate with Rick Warren hosted by Rick Warren him or dialogue with him and John McCain, what he believed about same sex marriage. Obama said, as a Christian, it's important to me. And I believe marriage is the union of one man and one woman.

It's male and female. And he said, as a Christian, that's important to him. Well, David Axelrod, his campaign manager, subsequently said he was lying. He just did it to get the vote. And we know that previously he had gone on record. He had previously gone on record in a written document saying that he wanted to to see same sex marriage. He wanted to change the definition of marriage. He supported that.

So when he then shifted later, he really hadn't shifted. It's that he lied during the 2008 campaign. But politicians lie. And honestly, I haven't the slightest idea what Kamala Harris believes or doesn't believe.

I haven't heard her talk about it, researched it. I can say I don't believe Donald Trump really has any clue as to what it means to be a Christian. In any case, evangelicals for Harris, they have more to say.

And I want to take a look at that when we come back. If you really seek to live by biblical values or just conservative moral values, you could be canceled. You could be cast out. You could be put down. You could be silenced. I'm here to say, friends, that I am not about to be silenced.

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Donate monthly. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the line of fire by calling eight six six three four. Truth. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Eight six six three four eight seven eighty four. And I've got some other callers on hold just with Bible questions and things we may get to later in the show. But the reason you haven't heard from anyone yet calling in to say why is the follower of Jesus, Bible believing follower of Jesus, they are voting for Kamala Harris.

It's like I haven't put on the phone because I haven't called yet. So our team will look to see if any of you posted comments on YouTube or Facebook as to why you'd be voting for Kamala Harris. Again, it's not to insult you or mock you. It's it's to hear another perspective that we can interact with.

I might stream extremely strongly disagree with you, but we'll have a conversation. All right. So back to Evangelicals for Harris. This is the CBN report. This is Reverend Jim Ball, who is leading the Evangelicals for Harris movement.

I want you to hear a little bit more of what they have to say. Do we have it? Clip number three of Kamala Harris can, let's just say, get over 20 percent or more.

She's in business. We're hoping that we'll have an historic amount this time. So we'll see Obama levels. Yes, Obama levels. That's right.

So we're hoping for that. And allies are joining with them, such as the group Faithful America, which bills itself as the largest online community of Christians. Black Church PAC is also active, holding a recent zoom call that attracted 16000 churchgoers and raised a half million dollars toward voter outreach. Then there's Christians for Kamala.

Hello, everybody. Hello, my fellow Christians. Senator Cory Booker and CNN's Van Jones are some of the big names focusing on progressive Christians.

I always say before you tell me about your religion, first show it to me and how you treat other people. Her agenda is to stand for what Jesus called the least of these, the addicted, the convicted, the afflicted, the evicted. Conservatives say evangelicals shouldn't fall for this world view, which they believe is Christian socialism, leftist thought, identity politics and Marxist driven liberation theology all rolled into one. Biblical scholar Robert Gagnon calls evangelicals for Harrison oxymoron, indeed an insult to our intelligence. And the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission says, quote, Unfortunately, the positions that Harris has our track record of supporting and advocating for would lead to a devaluing of marriage, the deaths of the preborn and a restricting of religious liberty for people of faith and her opponent.

Well, he's weighed in as well. How any Christian can vote for a Democrat, Christian or person of faith. How you can vote for a Democrat is crazy.

It's crazy. All right. Now, I get it. I could make the argument to say I can be a Christian and vote for Trump. I could make the argument. I understand it.

And if someone said I can't vote for either of them in good conscience, that's between you and God. But it's important for us to understand the positions of those we differ with, even even if we want to dismantle the position, if we want to tear down the position, if we want to correct the position, if we want to help the person in that position, it's important that we understand that position. And normally we never get to that point because you yell at me, I yell louder.

You the latter, I yell louder. And then we just insult each other and we write each other off. And we cancel each other out. We block each other. We unfriend each other and we don't talk to each other. And then what happened to this?

What happened to that? It just goes back and forth worse and worse and worse. So, so in point of fact, it's important, as followers of Jesus in particular, that we are quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger, as written in Jacob, James, the first chapter. And the word of God teaches us in Proverbs in a number of verses that the fool just gushes out what's in their heart or their mind and they speak without understanding. So I've sat with Christians who voted Democrat over the years. We've had them call in. I've talked to them privately. Explain your views.

Why do you feel like this? What's your viewpoint? And one of the major arguments that was raised over the years was if you'll check rates of abortion from Republican Republican presidents versus Democratic presidents, you'll see it's gone down with Democratic presidents because of other social policies involved, where it's gone up with Republican presidents because they didn't have the right policies in place. And and whoever you vote for is not really going to impact overall what happens in laws and things like that.

That's going to be grassroots. But then President Trump comes along, appoints three new justices, and they've made momentous decision after momentous decision for the good of America, for the good of American freedoms, for the good of the unborn. One major decision after another. It doesn't mean they're right on every single point, but one major decision after another. So who we voted for did have a direct impact there. Others would say, well, look, we just think the local policies of the Democrats are more important. And that's where we live. And that's the battle that we're fighting. And then others would say, are you kidding me?

Those policies are the worst of all. But either way, it's important that we can articulate what others feel that the best way to know this. Friends, hear this. This is a really important communication principle, as my messianic Jewish friend Dan Jester mentioned it many, many years ago. And it's just simple common sense. The best way to be sure that I understand your position is to explain it back to you in my own words.

And I would say, in other words, the reason you vote like this or the reason you believe this particular doctrine or the reason you hold this particular view is because of this, this, this, this. Not just repeating their words back, but saying it back to them in your own words. If they said, now you've got it. Then, OK, now we're at level one.

Now we're at the first step here. Now we can have a dialogue because we understand each other, or at least you've convinced the other person you understand their position. I've seen it just in marital dialogue, marital conflict, friendship conflict. Many times we're at loggerheads with each other and we don't, we're misunderstanding each other. So you stop and say, OK, do I understand that you're upset with me because of this? No, that's not it at all. OK, help me understand.

And then you go back and forth. Now you understand better. So that's the point of what I'm doing in this broadcast. It's not to be polemical. It's not to make arguments. I've laid out my case as to why I, in good conscience, could not vote for Kamala Harris or the Democrats and why I could find it morally justifiable to vote for Trump, although I understand the baggage, the collateral damage, the other issues like that, et cetera.

I've only touched on a few of those. But I do understand these things. I've written about it, spoken about it extensively.

I do understand it. My goal here is not to cause further division. It's certainly not clickbait. If it was clickbait, I'd be a whole lot more controversial and there'd be a whole lot more heat than light. It's rather to be constructive. It's to better understand each other. All right.

So let's start with Elizabeth in Richmond, Virginia. Welcome to the line of fire. So first, let me know about your own beliefs as a follower of Jesus.

How do you classify yourself? Oh, I'm a Christian. I happen to be Catholic. OK. And I was calling more with a comment, which was basically any Christian, evangelical or otherwise. I think it would be a mistake to vote for Harris because, I mean, already in our country, you're seeing them take church out of everything. Well, actually, I should say the Christian church, other religions they're promoting. So I already feel that our world here in America has become anti-Christian.

And if you vote for Harris, the likelihood of that getting even worse would be very strong. Got it. All right.

Hey, I'm sure you speak for many there. I appreciate it. Appreciate the call.

866-348-7884. All right. So we we've got a we've got folks calling in.

I'm not sure if you're calling in to say why you can't vote for Harris or why it's justifiable. We'll find out by going to the phones. All right. Let's let's grab another call from Richmond, Virginia.

Leroy, welcome to the line of fire. Thanks for calling. Yes, sir.

Thank you. How would you classify yourself in terms of your beliefs? Oh, I'm a Christian. You know, Jesus followers, you know, the Apostle doctrine, you know, holiness. Got it.

All right. So what's your view on this, sir? The Bible. Oh, holiness. You know, in the house. Well, sir, it's like I wouldn't vote for the wonderful.

You know, she talks about being authoritative, you know, like, you know, the president or, you know, whatever. You know, that's a thought to say to pray for. And when you partake. You know what the scripture talks about, anything that the scripture talks about, then you partake of that. You know, it's no excuses. You know, he said be holy. You know, as I am holding, you know what I'm saying?

Yes. This, though, since the president is it's a secular position, not a spiritual position. And they have to be the president of the whole nation, which means atheists, Muslims, Jews, Christians, Hindus, whoever cults.

They're going to be the president of the whole nation to do what's best for the whole nation. I absolutely affirm with you preaching holiness 100 percent day and night. Let's call the church to live by it. And I recognize that if the president did not conduct himself in an ethical way.

For example, if he was a liar of if he was nasty, mean spirit and unreliable, that he might just do something crazy at a whim and put us in danger, then that the president's moral weakness could have a negative effect on us. But are you really expecting the president of the United States to be holy? You know what I'm saying?

Can we have that? It'd be amazing if that was the case, but can we have that expectation? Well, when we look to man, you know, for having an effect on us, then we're not following the Scriptures. Because God is the almighty God and he has, you know, his plan.

He has his, you know, you know, the way. And when you look to man, you know, it's a fear of God, not man. You know what I'm saying? Because everyone that you spoke about, you know, as far as race or religion, I mean, you know, culture, then they have to die, too.

You know what I'm saying? And the Spirit, you know, the flesh is weak, but the Spirit is willing. So if you are of the Apostle doctrine, then there's rules and regulations, you know, to go by.

I tell you what, I got to jump in just because we had a break coming up. Of course, we're not looking to a person to do what only Jesus can do. There is no political savior for the nation, so always remember that. Thus far, we've gotten anti-Trump comments, but no pro-Harris. Haven't gotten a pro-Harris call yet. We'll keep trying. We'll keep trying.

I want to hear the rationale. My big issue is, if you say we care about the least of these, well, let's start with the unborn that are being slaughtered. Let's start there.

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Fire. When I explained music, music, there we go, when I explained why I could not vote for Kamala Harris, we went through a bunch of her policies. And remember, she would be the most radical leftist president in our nation's history and one that really could take away a lot of essential freedoms and would stand against many values that we have as followers of Jesus.

Now, could she do some good in areas where Republicans didn't? It's not black or white. It's not just, whoa, hang on. I have no idea where that announcement just came from, my cell phone. Where was that guy coming from? We don't know.

We don't know. But yeah, it's not my cell phone. If you heard the announcement, it wasn't an alien. It was not an alien.

Just as we're talking about our freedoms being taken away, someone breaks into this radio broadcast and this internet stream and I don't know where they come from. I don't know where the speaker was. There's no item there. My glasses are there. Maybe someone put something in my glasses.

I'm going to have to get that forensically examined. OK, just joking. Let's go over to Clay in North Carolina. So first, Clay, because I'm not getting the information I need on my screen, are you calling to explain why as a Christian you would vote for Kamala Harris?

Well, first of all, I'm not voting for her because of what I understand. Well, first of all, let me give thanks to the Lord for you. You know, I've been listening to the Truth Radio now for six or seven years, and I've got to meet you within the first two of those years when there were get-togethers. Got it. Yeah, I remember those. Those were great and fun. Well, thanks for being a long-term listener.

Yeah. I really give thanks to the Lord for what you share and what you bring to the table. So I am a, you know, I've only known Jesus for a short period of time. I haven't known him since childhood.

I didn't know him as a teenager, and I didn't know him, you know, when I was, you know, 20s, 30s, or 40s. But I truly feel, because of what I've been through with my health and as a person, that God the Father has really had his hand in my life. So, outside of that, I've heard people say and lay the foundation for what a certain person is. Now, I understand that she is considered a Marxist.

I was just looking it up. So, well, you know, you were talking to other people while you were sharing what you were sharing, and I really give thanks to the Lord for that. I'm not a political person, and I feel that politics has been involved in our life in every aspect, which it should not be. We need to be a people. We say that we're a follower of Jesus.

We need to be that, okay? You vote for somebody, and it comes up in a different way than what you believe in, then you give it an answer for that. I truly believe that what is going on is turning this country, I mean, I don't know why this Evangelicals for Harris thing is even materializing because that's interceding with what God's plan is for our life.

And I'm not going to get confused about it. We got deceived, and we got lied to when COVID-19 was here. Several political people were involved in that. And my thing is to keep the focus in my heart, you know, because I have that faith. And Clay, to jump in here, and thank you for the call, I want to urge everyone, keep your focus on Jesus. And in the midst of other differences we have, let us unite around Jesus, and let it be known that He is our hope, that He is our strength, that America will be changed through the Gospel more than through politics. Now, politics plays an important role. Because of politics, ultimately, slavery was abolished in America. Now, the Gospel led to that, the Gospel contributed to that, the Gospel changed hearts and minds and ultimately paved the way.

But ultimately, it was the President that made the decision and issued the Emancipation Proclamation. So if someone else had been in office, things would have gone in a different direction, other than Abraham Lincoln. And politics was involved with other changes in America. Politics was involved with the overturning of Roe v. Wade, ultimately. So politics is important, but politics is not the Gospel. We did a whole show last week, don't confuse politics with the Gospel, just talking about what the Gospel can do that only the Gospel can do. So that's where our emphasis needs to be.

And let's be candid. We each have our own perspectives. For example, white evangelicals tend to vote with a certain set of priorities. Black evangelicals with a different set of priorities.

I understand it. And maybe Asian evangelicals or messianic Jewish evangelicals, they may have different priorities among them. Hispanic evangelicals, Native American evangelicals, different people groups with different perspectives. There may be things that are absolute priorities to them having to do with their own culture, or their own society, or their own community. And they'll have chapter and verse for them. In other words, based on this verse about justice, or based on this verse about caring for the poor, based on this or that. I've heard challenges to pro-life evangelicals saying, look at the states that are the strongest in terms of pro-life laws. And they're often weakest in terms of providing care for needy families, needy children after birth. Now, I haven't been able to analyze the data. I'm not an expert in that, so I need to review it with others. But that's a fair question.

That's a fair charge. And others say, look, if the economy goes down, everything goes down. People can't afford health care.

They can't afford this. It leads to other deaths. So it's not just abortion. For example, with COVID, when people say, yeah, well, we're reducing fatalities by isolating people.

And then people say, okay, but then you have the converse. You have other things happening because people are being depressed and this and that. And now they can't go get health care as readily, and you have more people dying because of that. So let's be holistic.

By all means, let's be holistic. And the world is bigger than my perspective or your perspective. I just can't get away from the abortion issue when it's presented the way it's presented. We're not even talking about the days of President Clinton, Bill Clinton, saying that the view of the Democratic Party and his vision was for abortion to be safe, legal and rare.

You don't hear that anymore. You hear, no, shout your abortion. Celebrate your abortion. You hear, we will pass, we will federalize Roe v. Wade.

We will make it national law in a more ironclad way than the Supreme Court did. I just don't understand to this moment how a follower of Jesus can bypass that. Again, I get it if they say, well, I can't vote for Trump or the Republicans either because of this, this, this. I understand it. And I understand those who say, well, if you don't vote for one, you're voting for the other. I understand all those arguments. But someone in conscience could ultimately say, I'm sorry, I can't vote for the candidate. I'm going to vote for all the other elected officials down the line, but I can't vote for those. OK, I get it.

I still just I've not heard anything to my satisfaction yet that said I will vote for this party knowing that one of their goals is to reinstate Roe v. Wade and thereby eliminate every pro-life law that's been passed in every state. I still don't get it. Let's see if if anybody can. All right. Finally, William from North Carolina, thank you, sir, for calling in. Please share your views first. Your views about who Jesus is in the Bible. And then second, why you believe it's right to vote for Kamala Harris.

Thank you for calling. Jesus is my savior. I received him into my heart in nineteen seventy nine and I walked with him since that time. And I would first say that politics is not an easy subject, but I don't know. I'm sure my time is limited, so I wanted to get my thought across. But Jesus is savior.

He is Lord. Go ahead, please. OK, when we're dealing with the issue here, we have at hand two candidates for president. This is a real big issue. I'm not pro abortion. Abortion also is a large subject. You know, I don't think that abortion should be on demand. I believe there are situations when they deal with the mother's life and the baby's life and all of these things, which is too much to discuss in this little short time that I have. But when talking about voting for the two candidates, you know, I'm sure you heard that former President Trump said that he was, you know, against abortion totally.

Then later he came and said, well, I think it should be up to every state you got to win an election. OK, but when you put that matter on the table, OK, it's wrong to kill babies. It's also wrong to kill adults. You know, when Donald Trump was president and they attacked the Capitol on January 6th, you know, it was out. Hang Mike Pence. Hang my vice president.

He didn't agree with me. Trump is very he's a very dangerous person to me. He's not really presidential. He did some good things, but he did more bad than good. He's a 34 count convicted felon right now. He gave away, you know, secrets, top secrets to foreign leaders about where our military submarines, nuclear submarines are located. Are you sure? Are you sure about all those? Well, I'll tell you what, let's let's let's just put aside so we can be we only got like 30 seconds left.

And I do appreciate you calling William. Let's let's let's say we could have a debate about some of the things with Trump. Let's say he instigated January six.

But still, whatever happened January six, if a few people were killed, we're talking about killing over a million babies intentionally every year is quite a difference. How do you overcome that? Just ensure it.

How do you overcome? How do you justify voting for a party that will remove all pro-life legislation if they're able? Well, I guess you would I would conclude it with the less of the two evils I stated in the beginning. And I'm not for abortion. I'm not for abortion. But at the same time, when you put the two candidates there, there's not very much to choose from from either. And I wouldn't be able to really raise one above the other on my vice president. All right. Well, William, I appreciate your your candor. Again, I don't see how we can justify a vote of someone that would say we want to reinstate Roe v. Wade. But thank you, everyone, for the calls and the.